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Can FFXIV Survive Its Player Base?Follow

#202 Dec 23 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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XIV has a good engine on it. That means potential. Everything is set up to support a great game. All they need is a great game. They need to add in the Auction house to support a fluent economy. They need to add in some sort of transportation method like chocobos. They need airships that we can ride rather than an airship in the distance flying around in the skybox. Guild leves need to be at the camps instead of towns. Why the **** would I want to pick up a list of 8 leves and then run for around a half hour to get to the place to initiate them, then run for another 5-10 minutes to get to the area to fight or gather for the quest?

There is nothing wrong with the game itself, other than there is not enough of it. They should make teleporting free tbh. well, there are many things they should do. They've tried making a game where you have to think about what you are doing carefully and weigh it against different options. They then call this "challenge". Challenge is supposed to be fun. It is not fun nor is it challenging. Challenging is seeing if you can solo 2 BCNM's with 2 people and no sleeps at a level cap of 25. Timing skills and beating tough mobs. There is nothing challenging about deciding whether to waste one of your 25 teleports or walk for 20 minutes.

Again, the game does, in fact, have potential as an engine. SE just needs to suck it up and make some simple changes that will make the game 100% more enjoyable.
#203 Dec 24 2010 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:

I love dumb *** who more than likely where not playing games during the time of the PS1 who think they know something. Gess what jerk. FF7 saved the JRPG you dumb @#%^. It was the game that in the mind of many sold the Playstation. And was called one of the most important video games of all time by the videogame media almost acrost the bord. The game put new life into the hearts of FF fans and made more new fans for SE than any other FF game.

BTW FF7 did not come out on the N64 for one reason. The N64 could not hold all the space need for the game. It was slated to come out on the Snes then the N64 and then move to the PS where it is well known to be the game that made Playstation. The game sold 300.000 units its first day out in NA. That was huge for 1997.

The truth about FF games is they really did not start going down hill untill FFX. FF7 was a great story one that many of us still know better than any other game. FF8 hade the love story that gamers really did not see in games untill then. FF9 was just plain fun. In my mind the only other game that SE has that can stand up to the old FF games was Vagrant Story that came out in 2000.

To call fans of FF7 noobs is to show a lack of understanding of the history of video games.


How old are you again? I'm 33 and played though everything ever made by Square, good or bad. I played Mystic Quest, Secret of Mana(not a direct FF game, but fun just the same), FFT, Chrono Trigger and of course the highly over-rated FF7. Some of your facts are terribly inaccurate. Go back and look at FF7 now and tell me the PS1's memory was utilized if you omitted the CGI "eye candy". Zelda and Mario 64 were both superior titles in every way in terms of the 3-d graphics and engine. That's because the PS1's only advantage was the unlimited memory space compared to N64 cartridges thanks to $1 per disc fee.

The JRPG genre never needed to be saved. That was more a quote from one of Sony's brass if you recall. He made a statement that 2-d games and rpg's were a dead genre. Oh and by the way, EA bought a small percentage of Square(no Enix yet) to push FF7 to the masses. I'm not saying that making a game that crosses demographic lines is wrong. All I'm saying is that Square got too comfortable as a result and instead of learning from the flaws that do exist in FF7, they sold out to the mainstream "newb" FF user. The JP market was never in any danger, no clue where you heard that. FF and Dragon Quest games rule the market there at that time BEFORE FF7 ever came out. Why do you think Square(FF) merged with Enix(DQ) for in the first place? Don't ever question my knowledge on this subject ever again. We might not agree on whether a specific game was good or bad, but I think we can clearly see how "comfortable" SE got putting out the status quo crap they pulled with FFXI and it blew up in their face.

edited: for clarity and grammar

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 11:51pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


Im questioning it now. Anyone who claims the JRPGs did not take a plunge in the early 90s ither did not play rpgs in the 90s or was under a rock. Dragon quest or what was known in the US as Dragon Warrior was only selling well in japan. this is the same for almost all JRPGs. Breth of fire another big game by Capcom also saw a major drop in sales in the us in the early 90s. Then out comes FF7 and what do you know JRPGs start selling like wild fire.

FF7 open JRPGs up to everyone. It showed people just how epic the story in a game could be. BTW the guy who said that FF7 save the JRPG was not from sony. It was the lead artist for Breth of fire 3 a Capcom game. Sony said they had to thank FF7 after they sent out The Legend of Dragoon saying that it would of never sold in NA if it was not for FF7.

You don't need to like FF7 to respect what it did for the market. and what it did for fans of JRPGs. **** again for my mony Vagrent story is still the best RPG to come out of SE.
#204 Dec 24 2010 at 8:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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I played Vagrant Story and FF tactics soo. many. times... I hope this ff14 can be as good :D
#205 Dec 24 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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God, did I love Legend of Dragoon. To this date, the only game I played through three times.
#206 Dec 24 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Sethern79 wrote:

Im questioning it now. Anyone who claims the JRPGs did not take a plunge in the early 90s ither did not play rpgs in the 90s or was under a rock. Dragon quest or what was known in the US as Dragon Warrior was only selling well in japan. this is the same for almost all JRPGs. Breth of fire another big game by Capcom also saw a major drop in sales in the us in the early 90s. Then out comes FF7 and what do you know JRPGs start selling like wild fire.

FF7 open JRPGs up to everyone. It showed people just how epic the story in a game could be. BTW the guy who said that FF7 save the JRPG was not from sony. It was the lead artist for Breth of fire 3 a Capcom game. Sony said they had to thank FF7 after they sent out The Legend of Dragoon saying that it would of never sold in NA if it was not for FF7.

You don't need to like FF7 to respect what it did for the market. and what it did for fans of JRPGs. **** again for my mony Vagrent story is still the best RPG to come out of SE.


You do realize there is a difference between a niche market and a market plunge right? As for games such as Breath of Fire, they never sold well compared to FF or DQ for that matter. However, during the 90's I played plenty of rpg's on various systems despite the niche status. FF1 itself came out stateside in 1990. Wizardry, Ultima, and Dragon Quest were just a few of my favorites prior to that launch. The fact that my copy of Dragon Quest was obtained though a subscription to Nintendo Power kinda shows how niche rpg's truly were at the time. As a matter of fact, it was DQ1 that sold non-jp players that rpg's could be fun. If it wasn't for DQ1 being free and advertised by NP, I probably never would of bought FF1 so easily.

As for your claim that rpg's in general reached mainstream acceptance, I'm going to have to disagree there as well. There are a certain few franchises such as FF that inspire fans, but I hardly compare FF to other "niche" rpg's. Many people like to compare FFT to the regular turn-based games. I suppose they fail to realize FFT is a strategy game that combines rpg elements that confuses them. You remember Arc the Lad? I'm sure you do considering you brought up Dragoon. I'll tel you another reason why rpg's seemed to "sell" more. Wait for it... you ready.... they were cheaper than ever before. I paid $80 bucks for both FFIV and FFVI respectively on the SNES. I also paid $80 for Enix's SNES game 7th Saga. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was a lot of money in those times.

Anyways, I'm not saying anything bad about Square introducing to the mainstream in itself. My problem with Square-Enix is that they banked on those so called mainstream players to buy their crap no matter how weird or off the mark the game might be to the FF universe. FFXIII was a disappointment and now FFXIV is a total disaster. If you think about FFXII wasn't highly praised by a lot of the fan base either. Look at the design elements and tell me that SE wasn't influenced by it's mainstream approach that began with FF7. I agree with you that there are a few gems at least story-wise that excelled during this time. Now you must admit that something had to throw off SE to the point they produced 2 failures in a row. I have friends that have played like me since the original FF game that were so upset at FFXIII they sold it upon completion. Fast forward to now and FFXIV has totally disgraced the FF brand cashing in on the name to release an unfinished MMO. That was the last straw with me. This is the time where some fans will move on and SE's appeal lowers as a company because of it. The answer to their failures is so clear to me. SE has acquired that same defect that caused George Lucas to flub the prequel Star Wars movies. The fame went to their heads which I can attribute all the way back to FF7. You have to work for a "niche" fan base, not so much when people buy your game without question. CoD, Madden, Halo, etc. It's clear that FF games lack the passion that made the series relevant to most people.

As for FFXIV, it was released unfinished in beta form because SE knows we would buy it without question. The sad part was they were right, however most people myself included woke up and put a stop to it. I'm sad and ****** at the same time that SE has lost their way and decided to take advantage of us. I'm upset that I have to say all of this stuff in the first place. All I wanted was a solid successor to FFXI, what we got was a steaming pile of crap disguised as FFXIV. I've lost my faith in SE and have since quit FFXI and will probably not buy another rpg made by them because of this downfall.
#207 Dec 24 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Arc the lad. I still have my copy of that game. suikoden (I have been offerd over $600 to sell my copy of this game) lunar story, Ogre Battle, Legend of Legaia, Thousand Arms, Vagrant Story, Wild Arms and Grandia.. who can forget Grandia. I sit here looking at my colection of games and I see that almost all of what I would call the best JRGS of all time where on the PS1. Now thats my opinon I know that but just look at the list. On the NES side I have some great games the start of the FF games can not be missed. Zelda (Not a JRPG) and Dragon Warror 1 2 and 3 ( Sorry I will never ever call it Dragon Quest.)But that PS1 list is just an epic set of games.

Now it is true I was a Sega fan and not a NES fan. But I really don't think im being too biased there. I know the JRPGs where a nich market. Some of the games I listed are veary rare and can sell for up to $1000 now. But the truth is I never payed more than $60 for them other than Arc the Lad wich I had to have the CE and payed $75.

There are a lot of games on my list that people would never of given a shot if not for FF7 (yes this is my opnion) But I think im not to far off here. I had friends who after playing FF7 would come over just to try out all the other "Cooky rpgs" I had. One so called friend walked off with my Breth of Fire games 1 2 and 3 and I never saw them again :(.

Sorry need to state for the record my copy of Ogre battle is on the Snes. lol friend who is with me just scolded me for that.


Edited, Dec 24th 2010 12:43pm by Sethern79

Edited, Dec 24th 2010 12:44pm by Sethern79

Edited, Dec 24th 2010 12:46pm by Sethern79
#208 Dec 24 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
You do realize there is a difference between a niche market and a market plunge right? As for games such as Breath of Fire, they never sold well compared to FF or DQ for that matter. However, during the 90's I played plenty of rpg's on various systems despite the niche status. FF1 itself came out stateside in 1990. Wizardry, Ultima, and Dragon Quest were just a few of my favorites prior to that launch. The fact that my copy of Dragon Quest was obtained though a subscription to Nintendo Power kinda shows how niche rpg's truly were at the time. As a matter of fact, it was DQ1 that sold non-jp players that rpg's could be fun. If it wasn't for DQ1 being free and advertised by NP, I probably never would of bought FF1 so easily.

As for your claim that rpg's in general reached mainstream acceptance, I'm going to have to disagree there as well. There are a certain few franchises such as FF that inspire fans, but I hardly compare FF to other "niche" rpg's. Many people like to compare FFT to the regular turn-based games. I suppose they fail to realize FFT is a strategy game that combines rpg elements that confuses them. You remember Arc the Lad? I'm sure you do considering you brought up Dragoon. I'll tel you another reason why rpg's seemed to "sell" more. Wait for it... you ready.... they were cheaper than ever before. I paid $80 bucks for both FFIV and FFVI respectively on the SNES. I also paid $80 for Enix's SNES game 7th Saga. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was a lot of money in those times.

Anyways, I'm not saying anything bad about Square introducing to the mainstream in itself. My problem with Square-Enix is that they banked on those so called mainstream players to buy their crap no matter how weird or off the mark the game might be to the FF universe. FFXIII was a disappointment and now FFXIV is a total disaster. If you think about FFXII wasn't highly praised by a lot of the fan base either. Look at the design elements and tell me that SE wasn't influenced by it's mainstream approach that began with FF7. I agree with you that there are a few gems at least story-wise that excelled during this time. Now you must admit that something had to throw off SE to the point they produced 2 failures in a row. I have friends that have played like me since the original FF game that were so upset at FFXIII they sold it upon completion. Fast forward to now and FFXIV has totally disgraced the FF brand cashing in on the name to release an unfinished MMO. That was the last straw with me. This is the time where some fans will move on and SE's appeal lowers as a company because of it. The answer to their failures is so clear to me. SE has acquired that same defect that caused George Lucas to flub the prequel Star Wars movies. The fame went to their heads which I can attribute all the way back to FF7. You have to work for a "niche" fan base, not so much when people buy your game without question. CoD, Madden, Halo, etc. It's clear that FF games lack the passion that made the series relevant to most people.

As for FFXIV, it was released unfinished in beta form because SE knows we would buy it without question. The sad part was they were right, however most people myself included woke up and put a stop to it. I'm sad and ****** at the same time that SE has lost their way and decided to take advantage of us. I'm upset that I have to say all of this stuff in the first place. All I wanted was a solid successor to FFXI, what we got was a steaming pile of crap disguised as FFXIV. I've lost my faith in SE and have since quit FFXI and will probably not buy another rpg made by them because of this downfall.


Now this is a person who knows what the **** they're talking about.

I have been a Final Fantasy fan ever since I picked up my very first Final Fantasy game, which was, of course, FF7. But that wasn't my first rpg. My first rpg was Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. That was the game that got me into rpgs and got me to plunk down $60+ for FF7, which had me on the SquareEnix (then Squaresoft) fan train ever since. I've played countless rpgs ever since (a lot of then from Square), and that's what has me so ****** off about the state of Final Fantasy 14.

We've played Square's games. We've enjoyed Square's many epic adventures. We know Square can do better than this. For them to release this game in the state they released it in and expect people to pay a monthly fee for it, that was not just a failure, it was a terrible insult to Square's playerbase. Even released in the state it's in now is a shame, and deep down Square knows this, which is why we have all these free months. This is an extended beta, not a game. It's a shell of what a true mmorpg should be. I, personally, bought this game for $26 on Black Friday. If I had paid $50 for this swill they call a game, I'd be completely enraged. What SquareEnix did here was wrong. And if it takes a serious hit to their pocketbooks to teach them a lesson so they never try this crap again, so be it.
#209 Dec 24 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Sethern79 wrote:
Arc the lad. I still have my copy of that game. suikoden (I have been offerd over $600 to sell my copy of this game) lunar story, Ogre Battle, Legend of Legaia, Thousand Arms, Vagrant Story, Wild Arms and Grandia.. who can forget Grandia. I sit here looking at my colection of games and I see that almost all of what I would call the best JRGS of all time where on the PS1. Now thats my opinon I know that but just look at the list. On the NES side I have some great games the start of the FF games can not be missed. Zelda (Not a JRPG) and Dragon Warror 1 2 and 3 ( Sorry I will never ever call it Dragon Quest.)But that PS1 list is just an epic set of games.


I think missed the point in my post. One of the reasons why it was so easy to port JPRPG's to the West was the fact that it was cheap to stamp a disc. It literally costs $1 to stamp a disc compared to hefty fees for carts. There was a reason why FFIV, FFVI, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, 7th Saga, etc were all $74-80 bucks new. I'm not going to debate your list, but I will say that the PS1's "medium of choice" was just as responsible for those titles coming over here as was FF7's success itself. Oh, and the success of other rpg's that came before FF7 also had a hand in winning the hearts and minds of players. For example, Super Mario rpg like the above poster mentioned which was a collaboration(for those that don't know) by Square and Nintendo's plumber to star in his first rpg.

Sethern79 wrote:

Now it is true I was a Sega fan and not a NES fan. But I really don't think im being too biased there. I know the JRPGs where a nich market. Some of the games I listed are veary rare and can sell for up to $1000 now. But the truth is I never payed more than $60 for them other than Arc the Lad wich I had to have the CE and payed $75.


Of course you didn't pay that much, it's cheaper to stamp a cd than pay for carts.

Sethern79 wrote:

There are a lot of games on my list that people outside Japan would never of given a shot if not for FF7 (yes this is my opnion) But I think im not to far off here.


I fixed that for you. It never ceases to amaze me how people justify a successful game just because it made it over to the USA/Europe regions. Yes FF7 helped to open a few doors, nobody is disputing that. I just find the game to be over-rated is all. The 3-D graphics haven't aged well at all. Compare the 3-D graphics in Zelda 64 vs FF7 and tell me which game has aged better. All that CGI "eye candy" drew in the masses, no doubt about it. But go look at the blocky terribly rendered char models. The point is the game's hype superseded it's actual substance.

Sethern79 wrote:

Sorry need to state for the record my copy of Ogre battle is on the Snes. lol friend who is with me just scolded me for that.


You also note that some of the programmers on Ogre battle transferred to Squaresoft to make Final Fantasy Tactics.

Quote:

We've played Square's games. We've enjoyed Square's many epic adventures. We know Square can do better than this. For them to release this game in the state they released it in and expect people to pay a monthly fee for it, that was not just a failure, it was a terrible insult to Square's playerbase. Even released in the state it's in now is a shame, and deep down Square knows this, which is why we have all these free months. This is an extended beta, not a game. It's a shell of what a true mmorpg should be. I, personally, bought this game for $26 on Black Friday. If I had paid $50 for this swill they call a game, I'd be completely enraged. What SquareEnix did here was wrong. And if it takes a serious hit to their pocketbooks to teach them a lesson so they never try this crap again, so be it.


Agreed, that's why it hurts so much to have this conversation. I was ready to sell my first child into slavery for this **** game(well not really, just an expression) and SE let us all down. I never expected FFXIV to be so disappointing. I figured SE had learned something from all the years working on FFXI. I guess there are no guarantees anymore. /sigh

Edited, Dec 24th 2010 12:35pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#210 Dec 24 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Just to chime in quickly, I don't agree that FF7 ruined SE by bringing their games mainstream. FF8 was clearly an effort to capitalize on the success of FF7, but at the time was rejected by many of the fans, and that's why FF9 came back loaded with nostalgia. At this time, Square was still going strong. FFX wasn't my favorite game or anything, but it was definitely a solid title. XI was good enough for a first attempt at an MMO.

Some people love XII, and some people love XIII. Some people put the tombstone on the Enix merger.

My only point is that FF7 can't be saddled with the blame for SE's current quality-- a growing dependence on graphics (not just by SE, but by player demands) probably has more to do with it than any given game. That aside, I played JRPGs long before FF7, and like many others, I agree that it was not just a good game that was overrated, but one of the greatest games of that generation.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#211 Dec 24 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

Of course you didn't pay that much, it's cheaper to stamp a cd than pay for carts.



I pulled this out becuse it seems to be the point you are trying to make. every NES game I ever got was $60 or under. every NES FF game Chrono Triger was $50 got this game the day it came out. infact the only JRPG of the time I payed more than $60 for was Arc the Lad wich I wanted the CE for and payed $75 for. My Oger Battle cart still has the price tag on it at was $60 a SNES game. Now at the time its true there really was no CD games to talk about. And when the PS1 came out the games for it where around $40 at first about $10-$20 cheeper than Carts. But I just looked at that as savings. I still never payed $70-$80 for a game unless it was a CE.

Now sure maby you where buying your games from japan or payed more for some other reason I don't know.

As for the graphics. Come on. Sure Zelda looked better. But I would argue that FF7 for me (again my opinon) was the better game. I loved the story. To me Bad guy of all time gose to Sephiroth. When I finaly got to fight him I was standing at my TV shouting profanity at him as if he had killed my mother. That game was the first to invoke so much emotion in me. And I loved all the CGI. Mite not be for everyone but it became a big part of story telling in Video games for me. I was in hog heaven when MGS4 came out with its hour long cutseens. This is something that they just could not do with carts. They tryed. Nintendo would not let them ship the game with more than one cart.

And yes I do judge a game on its sucses in the US. I live in the Us not japan.
#212 Dec 24 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Just to chime in quickly, I don't agree that FF7 ruined SE by bringing their games mainstream. FF8 was clearly an effort to capitalize on the success of FF7, but at the time was rejected by many of the fans, and that's why FF9 came back loaded with nostalgia. At this time, Square was still going strong. FFX wasn't my favorite game or anything, but it was definitely a solid title. XI was good enough for a first attempt at an MMO.

Some people love XII, and some people love XIII. Some people put the tombstone on the Enix merger.

My only point is that FF7 can't be saddled with the blame for SE's current quality-- a growing dependence on graphics (not just by SE, but by player demands) probably has more to do with it than any given game. That aside, I played JRPGs long before FF7, and like many others, I agree that it was not just a good game that was overrated, but one of the greatest games of that generation.


I think FF7 can be credited with SE porting more of their games over to NA, and thats IMO its legacy. It was a good game, but it wasn't as mindblowing as some people make it out to be. It was the first real 3D Jrpg we had over here, but its far from the best. I actually thing SE's non-FF work on the PSone was better than their FF games.
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#213 Dec 24 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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I like to jump into intelligent discussions about the merits of FF7. ^^
They're so far and few between!

It's an opinion whether FF7 is overrated or not. It's also a matter of perspective. It depends on your criteria. It depends on your definitions of said criteria.

For starters FF7 is not my favorite Final Fantasy game. However, I do think the game is mind blowing based on specific criteria that I set. I think out of all the Final Fantasy titles, 7 has the most complex protagonist/antagonist relationship. I think that alone sets it aside. I actually see how FF6 was sort of a prototype to this concept of having dynamic personalities and personal connections to the villain (who is also pronounced and rather dynamic). I think they took this idea which started in 6 and worked an entire game around it in 7.

I think 7's characters and plot has several layers. Some of them are convoluted, others are vague, but it's doing something games simply aren't doing anymore - telling a multifaceted story from a very unique point of view. I don't want to get into too much depth on it, but a quick example is ...

Cloud's relationship to Sephiroth (for starters), Cloud's relationship with Zack, Zack's relationship with Sephiroth, Cloud/Zack/Sephiroth's relationship to Jenova, and how these relationships impact almost the entire rest of the cast of the game. It's intricate and it has a level of "depth" (people like to argue that for some reason, choice of words maybe) that is rare in video games.

I agree that FF7 perhaps set Square on a downward spiral. FF8 is among my least favorite JRPG ever made. I know it was pushed out to ride on the curtails of FF7. (I also know some people love it and think it's the best game ever; I don't understand these people and they don't understand me, so don't worry trying to argue with me about it. I respect your opinions; you can try to respect mine).

FF9 came out to "patch up" fan reactions to FF8 and I agree FF9 was a fun game, but for me (honestly) it wasn't very memorable. I've played most FF games from start to finish 2x, but not FF9 and for the life of me I think it's simply because the characters and story are so uninspiring. It feels like what it is - continual fan service. I actually like the mechanics of the game. I like the remixes of older music and continue of older themes... but I don't know, the game just doesn't have a lot of substance (as I'm defining it).

I'm clearly a plot/character guy. I agree 100% FF7 has aged like crap. I literally can't even play it anymore because the controls are so clunky (the graphics don't bother me). It's awkward and goofy - and I'm not surprised anyone who didn't play it when it came out looks at it and goes "This? Best game ever? Really?" and joins the bandwagons of FF7 rage/hate. Doesn't surprise me at all. But in context it really stands out as a game that did something different in terms of plot and development.

I can only think of a handful of games that get close to this kind of work in story/character department (and FF6 is one I already mentioned - which by default makes FF7 not exactly unique or original, but I do think and repeat I think FF7 took this much farther than 6 did).
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#214 Dec 24 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Sethern79 wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

Of course you didn't pay that much, it's cheaper to stamp a cd than pay for carts.



To me Bad guy of all time gose to Sephiroth.


Stop! See i saw your list of game's and i was thinking "Ok sethern has played most epic game's" then you spout this and now i'm thinking "Wtf is this guy a noob?"

If you played Suikoden II, you should know luca blight is a better villain than sephiroth hands down, Xdeath from FFV is a better villain, and kefka (Sephiroth's protype) is a way better villain also, **** zeikfried from Wild Arms was a better villain 2 <.<

Why would you think sephiroth is the best villain ?
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#215 Dec 24 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

Of course you didn't pay that much, it's cheaper to stamp a cd than pay for carts.



To me Bad guy of all time gose to Sephiroth.


Stop! See i saw your list of game's and i was thinking "Ok sethern has played most epic game's" then you spout this and now i'm thinking "Wtf is this guy a noob?"

If you played Suikoden II, you should know luca blight is a better villain than sephiroth hands down, Xdeath from FFV is a better villain, and kefka (Sephiroth's protype) is a way better villain also, **** zeikfried from Wild Arms was a better villain 2 <.<

Why would you think sephiroth is the best villain ?


While I must say that the whole "Who's a better villian than who" argument is all based on personal preferences and opinion, I have to agree that Kefka is a much better villian than Sephiroth was.

Now, I didn't say that I believed Kefka was a better character. No, Sephiroth wins that hands down. Unlike Kefka he's a warrior, he's tough, he's handsome, he's highly intelligent, he's charismatic, he's an all-around bad-***. He wasn't really truly a villian, though. Unlike Kefka, Sephiroth was really just tragically insane. Kefka, on the other hand, was pure evil. Sure, he was also insane, but more evil than that. Also, unlike Sephiroth, he was a coward. And a clown. Two of my least favorite things, rolled into one.

Sephiroth was no villian. He was a victim. No one could help him, so he had to be stopped before he destroyed everything. I felt bad after defeating Sephiroth. I couldn't wait to kill Kefka, though. He succeeded in doing what Sephiroth ultimately failed to do. He succeeded in making people wish he was dead and, when he dies, making people glad they killed him. No one wants to see Kefka come back, ever again. Well, not enough people to warrant Kefka's presence in another game (besides that wierd fighting game that came out not too long ago).

Sephiroth, on the other hand, makes the girls want him and the guys want to be him. He has more fans than arguably any other Final Fantasy game character, save Cloud. Like I said, he's fail as a villian, but epic win as a character.
#216 Dec 24 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
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2,202 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
I like to jump into intelligent discussions about the merits of FF7. ^^
They're so far and few between!

It's an opinion whether FF7 is overrated or not. It's also a matter of perspective. It depends on your criteria. It depends on your definitions of said criteria.

For starters FF7 is not my favorite Final Fantasy game. However, I do think the game is mind blowing based on specific criteria that I set. I think out of all the Final Fantasy titles, 7 has the most complex protagonist/antagonist relationship. I think that alone sets it aside. I actually see how FF6 was sort of a prototype to this concept of having dynamic personalities and personal connections to the villain (who is also pronounced and rather dynamic). I think they took this idea which started in 6 and worked an entire game around it in 7.

I think 7's characters and plot has several layers. Some of them are convoluted, others are vague, but it's doing something games simply aren't doing anymore - telling a multifaceted story from a very unique point of view. I don't want to get into too much depth on it, but a quick example is ...

Cloud's relationship to Sephiroth (for starters), Cloud's relationship with Zack, Zack's relationship with Sephiroth, Cloud/Zack/Sephiroth's relationship to Jenova, and how these relationships impact almost the entire rest of the cast of the game. It's intricate and it has a level of "depth" (people like to argue that for some reason, choice of words maybe) that is rare in video games.

I agree that FF7 perhaps set Square on a downward spiral. FF8 is among my least favorite JRPG ever made. I know it was pushed out to ride on the curtails of FF7. (I also know some people love it and think it's the best game ever; I don't understand these people and they don't understand me, so don't worry trying to argue with me about it. I respect your opinions; you can try to respect mine).

FF9 came out to "patch up" fan reactions to FF8 and I agree FF9 was a fun game, but for me (honestly) it wasn't very memorable. I've played most FF games from start to finish 2x, but not FF9 and for the life of me I think it's simply because the characters and story are so uninspiring. It feels like what it is - continual fan service. I actually like the mechanics of the game. I like the remixes of older music and continue of older themes... but I don't know, the game just doesn't have a lot of substance (as I'm defining it).

I'm clearly a plot/character guy. I agree 100% FF7 has aged like crap. I literally can't even play it anymore because the controls are so clunky (the graphics don't bother me). It's awkward and goofy - and I'm not surprised anyone who didn't play it when it came out looks at it and goes "This? Best game ever? Really?" and joins the bandwagons of FF7 rage/hate. Doesn't surprise me at all. But in context it really stands out as a game that did something different in terms of plot and development.

I can only think of a handful of games that get close to this kind of work in story/character department (and FF6 is one I already mentioned - which by default makes FF7 not exactly unique or original, but I do think and repeat I think FF7 took this much farther than 6 did).


There are tons of games that have a deeper story and better character development, from the top of my head: Suikoden II, Wild Arms 1-2, FFT, OBT, xenogears, chrono trigger, chrono cross, BOF3, Lufia II & FF6.

FF7 story wise was a joke, it was all graphic's, if we have had FF6 shipped on the PS1 with the same story but with FFVII graphics(Or FFVIII) we would not have this discussion today :)
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#217 Dec 24 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
SasukeYuchiha wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

Of course you didn't pay that much, it's cheaper to stamp a cd than pay for carts.



To me Bad guy of all time gose to Sephiroth.


Stop! See i saw your list of game's and i was thinking "Ok sethern has played most epic game's" then you spout this and now i'm thinking "Wtf is this guy a noob?"

If you played Suikoden II, you should know luca blight is a better villain than sephiroth hands down, Xdeath from FFV is a better villain, and kefka (Sephiroth's protype) is a way better villain also, **** zeikfried from Wild Arms was a better villain 2 <.<

Why would you think sephiroth is the best villain ?


While I must say that the whole "Who's a better villian than who" argument is all based on personal preferences and opinion, I have to agree that Kefka is a much better villian than Sephiroth was.

Now, I didn't say that I believed Kefka was a better character. No, Sephiroth wins that hands down. Unlike Kefka he's a warrior, he's tough, he's handsome, he's highly intelligent, he's charismatic, he's an all-around bad-***. He wasn't really truly a villian, though. Unlike Kefka, Sephiroth was really just tragically insane. Kefka, on the other hand, was pure evil. Sure, he was also insane, but more evil than that. Also, unlike Sephiroth, he was a coward. And a clown. Two of my least favorite things, rolled into one.

Sephiroth was no villian. He was a victim. No one could help him, so he had to be stopped before he destroyed everything. I felt bad after defeating Sephiroth. I couldn't wait to kill Kefka, though. He succeeded in doing what Sephiroth ultimately failed to do. He succeeded in making people wish he was dead and, when he dies, making people glad they killed him. No one wants to see Kefka come back, ever again. Well, not enough people to warrant Kefka's presence in another game (besides that wierd fighting game that came out not too long ago).

Sephiroth, on the other hand, makes the girls want him and the guys want to be him. He has more fans than arguably any other Final Fantasy game character, save Cloud. Like I said, he's fail as a villian, but epic win as a character.


Being a villain has nothing to do with being handsome... and highly intelligent ? Kefka played everybody in the game like puppets, he tricked general leo and killed him, he usurped emperor ghestal on the floating continent right in his face, after the emperor had obtained the power of the 3 statue's and then went and blow the world to ****... How is sephiroth half as intelligent as that ?

As for the "Oh sephiroth was a tragic villain" how is kefka not so either ? kefka was a perfectly fine soldier before the magitek infusion wich was what made him crazy in the first place, just like sephiroth was a fine soldier before he found out the nature of his birth, they both snaped as results of experiments done to them, Kefka is by all rights the prototype of Sephiroth, they have more in common than they have difference's.

Both where soldiers from an Empire
Both where experimented on and gained inhuman ability's as a result
Both killed their respective head of goverment
Both killed an important plot person in each game(General Leo/Aerith)
Both have a scene where they burn a town down and they are in the center(Figaro Castle/Nibelhelm)
Both have an epic battle theme
Both of them after becoming a demi-god/god have angelic feature's

Seriously luca blight has more dead body's in his closet and blood in his hands than sephiroth does by the end of the game, and we kill luca blight by the first half of Suikoden II.

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#218 Dec 24 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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283 posts
Ostia wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

Of course you didn't pay that much, it's cheaper to stamp a cd than pay for carts.



To me Bad guy of all time gose to Sephiroth.


Stop! See i saw your list of game's and i was thinking "Ok sethern has played most epic game's" then you spout this and now i'm thinking "Wtf is this guy a noob?"

If you played Suikoden II, you should know luca blight is a better villain than sephiroth hands down, Xdeath from FFV is a better villain, and kefka (Sephiroth's protype) is a way better villain also, **** zeikfried from Wild Arms was a better villain 2 <.<

Why would you think sephiroth is the best villain ?


As I said to me he gets best bad guy of all time. Sure there where better evon in my own opinon but... old sephy was the first villain to get me as worked up as he did. And much like *** your first will always be a the best in your mind.

**** now if I really sat down and thought about it MGS and Liquid Snake/Ocelot. When it came to the end of MGS4 lol I was talking to Liquid like he was an old friend. The last fist fight with him had me almost at a full cry. (Yes there are a few games that made me cry and yes MGS series is one of them! call me a pansy if you like :P) But there is still that soft spot for Sephiroth. He was the first bad guy to really get too me and for that he will always have the number one spot in my mind.

Edited, Dec 25th 2010 12:35am by Sethern79
#219 Dec 25 2010 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
45 posts
Ostia wrote:
Being a villain has nothing to do with being handsome... and highly intelligent ? Kefka played everybody in the game like puppets, he tricked general leo and killed him, he usurped emperor ghestal on the floating continent right in his face, after the emperor had obtained the power of the 3 statue's and then went and blow the world to ****... How is sephiroth half as intelligent as that ?

As for the "Oh sephiroth was a tragic villain" how is kefka not so either ? kefka was a perfectly fine soldier before the magitek infusion wich was what made him crazy in the first place, just like sephiroth was a fine soldier before he found out the nature of his birth, they both snaped as results of experiments done to them, Kefka is by all rights the prototype of Sephiroth, they have more in common than they have difference's.

Both where soldiers from an Empire
Both where experimented on and gained inhuman ability's as a result
Both killed their respective head of goverment
Both killed an important plot person in each game(General Leo/Aerith)
Both have a scene where they burn a town down and they are in the center(Figaro Castle/Nibelhelm)
Both have an epic battle theme
Both of them after becoming a demi-god/god have angelic feature's

Seriously luca blight has more dead body's in his closet and blood in his hands than sephiroth does by the end of the game, and we kill luca blight by the first half of Suikoden II.



I'm aware that being a villian has nothing to do with being intelligent (yes Seph was, as the pres of Shinra himself said so) or handsome. My point was, Sephiroth was NOT a villian, remember? A better character, yes. A better villian? No. Only the best of the best of the best could become a member of soldier, and Sephiroth was the best soldier in soldier; a general, first class. Blowing the world up, however, does not necessarily show intelligence as much as it does rabid evil. Yes, Kefka played people like puppets and used them. He was definately better at doing that than Sephiroth, as Sephiroth would rather face his enemy up front than play games with them. Playing games and manipulation was a cowardly villian's way of doing things, and Sephiroth was neither a coward nor a villian. Kefka was both, however. In spades.

And what makes Kefka more of a villian than Sephiroth was his cowardly manipulating ways. Sephiroth faced his enemies with a sword, not with poison. *roll eyes* And the first time I faced Kefka, he ran away from me. I've never seen Sephiroth run from anyone. Even when weakened and wounded, he fought back. That's because Sephiroth was a warrior, not a craven clown. Kefka also seemed to take great pleasure in his unbelievably evil actions, even cracking jokes every now and then and always laughing like a lunatic. Sephiroth rarely laughed unless he was doing a creepy laugh to himself, and there were no jokes in this for him. He was all about controlling Holy and realizing his "mother's" revenge. Sephiroth didn't laugh gleefully or skip about. He was sick in the head. Kefka was too, but he was more evil than insane.

And indeed, both of them had a lot of similarities. Except the "epic battle theme" part. I mean, come on. Sure, they both had nice battle themes. But I guarantee a lot more people know "One Winged Angel" than they know... well... whatever Kefka's battle theme was. Also, Sephiroth was a lot closer to being a god than kefka, as gods don't die. Did Kefka come back after being defeated? No. He did not. Sephiroth did. And his last words as he was defeated last time "I will... never be a memory..." are a clear sign that he's not done. Kefka, ont he other hand, is worm food. He's finished. Finito. Kaput. Over. Done. He's gone, and not cared anough about to bring back. If he was, Squeenix would have done it long before now.
#220 Dec 25 2010 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
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4,775 posts
KujaKoF wrote:

I think FF7 can be credited with SE porting more of their games over to NA, and thats IMO its legacy. It was a good game, but it wasn't as mindblowing as some people make it out to be. It was the first real 3D Jrpg we had over here, but its far from the best. I actually thing SE's non-FF work on the PSone was better than their FF games.


I agree with this assessment. I know I keep saying that FF7 was over-rated, but I haven't actually rated it. My major gripe with FF7 is that Square's focus on their games moved away from story telling and more into eye candy. The epically failed Spirit's Within movie was just another example of how Square had lost its way. It sure wasn't the CG that ruined that movie folks, it was the cruddy story. If you look at FFXIV, you'll see SE spent tons of time working on the graphics engine and almost no time on the content by comparison. This epic circle of fail goes all the way back to FF7's mainstream push. Flash over substance proved to be the better choice. It must of worked for Square since they merged with Enix and bought several other companies. In the long run, the basics still inspire people to play. That's why some classics are playable today while others haven't aged so well. I truly hope that SE can get their act together and remember why people bought their games in the first place.

By the way speaking of cut scenes, no game goes it better than the Uncharted series. The most realistic in both vocal approach and motion capture plus it feels right. You don't need hour long CG to move the story.
#221 Dec 25 2010 at 7:28 AM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
SasukeYuchiha wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Being a villain has nothing to do with being handsome... and highly intelligent ? Kefka played everybody in the game like puppets, he tricked general leo and killed him, he usurped emperor ghestal on the floating continent right in his face, after the emperor had obtained the power of the 3 statue's and then went and blow the world to ****... How is sephiroth half as intelligent as that ?

As for the "Oh sephiroth was a tragic villain" how is kefka not so either ? kefka was a perfectly fine soldier before the magitek infusion wich was what made him crazy in the first place, just like sephiroth was a fine soldier before he found out the nature of his birth, they both snaped as results of experiments done to them, Kefka is by all rights the prototype of Sephiroth, they have more in common than they have difference's.

Both where soldiers from an Empire
Both where experimented on and gained inhuman ability's as a result
Both killed their respective head of goverment
Both killed an important plot person in each game(General Leo/Aerith)
Both have a scene where they burn a town down and they are in the center(Figaro Castle/Nibelhelm)
Both have an epic battle theme
Both of them after becoming a demi-god/god have angelic feature's

Seriously luca blight has more dead body's in his closet and blood in his hands than sephiroth does by the end of the game, and we kill luca blight by the first half of Suikoden II.



I'm aware that being a villian has nothing to do with being intelligent (yes Seph was, as the pres of Shinra himself said so) or handsome. My point was, Sephiroth was NOT a villian, remember? A better character, yes. A better villian? No. Only the best of the best of the best could become a member of soldier, and Sephiroth was the best soldier in soldier; a general, first class. Blowing the world up, however, does not necessarily show intelligence as much as it does rabid evil. Yes, Kefka played people like puppets and used them. He was definately better at doing that than Sephiroth, as Sephiroth would rather face his enemy up front than play games with them. Playing games and manipulation was a cowardly villian's way of doing things, and Sephiroth was neither a coward nor a villian. Kefka was both, however. In spades.

And what makes Kefka more of a villian than Sephiroth was his cowardly manipulating ways. Sephiroth faced his enemies with a sword, not with poison. *roll eyes* And the first time I faced Kefka, he ran away from me. I've never seen Sephiroth run from anyone. Even when weakened and wounded, he fought back. That's because Sephiroth was a warrior, not a craven clown. Kefka also seemed to take great pleasure in his unbelievably evil actions, even cracking jokes every now and then and always laughing like a lunatic. Sephiroth rarely laughed unless he was doing a creepy laugh to himself, and there were no jokes in this for him. He was all about controlling Holy and realizing his "mother's" revenge. Sephiroth didn't laugh gleefully or skip about. He was sick in the head. Kefka was too, but he was more evil than insane.

And indeed, both of them had a lot of similarities. Except the "epic battle theme" part. I mean, come on. Sure, they both had nice battle themes. But I guarantee a lot more people know "One Winged Angel" than they know... well... whatever Kefka's battle theme was. Also, Sephiroth was a lot closer to being a god than kefka, as gods don't die. Did Kefka come back after being defeated? No. He did not. Sephiroth did. And his last words as he was defeated last time "I will... never be a memory..." are a clear sign that he's not done. Kefka, ont he other hand, is worm food. He's finished. Finito. Kaput. Over. Done. He's gone, and not cared anough about to bring back. If he was, Squeenix would have done it long before now.


If you listen to kefka's sound track, you can see where sephiroth's came from ....

Either way, only reason as to why sephiroth came back to life(Your argument that gods dont die) is because they needed to milk the FFVII name some more, what would have been AC w/o sephiroth ? Also it seems i know more about FFVII than you do lol, sephiroth manipulates you all game thru, every time you seen him in-game before the crater is not him, is one of his copies <.<

So much for facing his opponents and smacking them lol
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#222 Dec 25 2010 at 7:30 AM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
Sethern79 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

Of course you didn't pay that much, it's cheaper to stamp a cd than pay for carts.



To me Bad guy of all time gose to Sephiroth.


Stop! See i saw your list of game's and i was thinking "Ok sethern has played most epic game's" then you spout this and now i'm thinking "Wtf is this guy a noob?"

If you played Suikoden II, you should know luca blight is a better villain than sephiroth hands down, Xdeath from FFV is a better villain, and kefka (Sephiroth's protype) is a way better villain also, **** zeikfried from Wild Arms was a better villain 2 <.<

Why would you think sephiroth is the best villain ?


As I said to me he gets best bad guy of all time. Sure there where better evon in my own opinon but... old sephy was the first villain to get me as worked up as he did. And much like *** your first will always be a the best in your mind.

**** now if I really sat down and thought about it MGS and Liquid Snake/Ocelot. When it came to the end of MGS4 lol I was talking to Liquid like he was an old friend. The last fist fight with him had me almost at a full cry. (Yes there are a few games that made me cry and yes MGS series is one of them! call me a pansy if you like :P) But there is still that soft spot for Sephiroth. He was the first bad guy to really get too me and for that he will always have the number one spot in my mind.

Edited, Dec 25th 2010 12:35am by Sethern79


I get your point, like you i liked sephiroth(Still do) but after playing so many games with awesome villains in it, i understand that sephiroth was an ok villain but by no means on the top of the food chain, like you said, ocelot was 500 times a better villain, how can you not hate/love ocelot ?
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#223 Dec 25 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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139 posts
I'm going to side with the Orge (Troll) here. FFXIV isn't a bad game if you compare it to other B-level games but for a game with a lot of hype, it's disappointing. FFXIV is more like the type of game you get to have fun for a couple hours then get bored and play something else. A good game usually hook you and pull you into its world FFXIV failed to do that for me.

I didn't particularly hate any flaw of FFXIV when I started out; either the UI, mini games, restrictive quests or even the item/trade/market thing. I just don't like them much and try to avoid them. I didn't touch the market because I found it's too much work looking for the cheapest weapon I want. I turned to fishing/mining after I exceeded my quest quota of the day. I tried to make/repair my items as I go...etc. I'm sure a lot of people liking FFXIV did something similar when they started out.

However, after I took a few days break and replay the game. Those flaws start to irritate me. Unable to trade with other people, I had to keep making your my stuff but I couldn't do much. I had to look for my own materials instead and that took a lot of time. The time I could have spent playing the game was spent looking up how-to guides or recipe lists. I realized I didn't like FFXIV as much as I did when I started out with FFXI. I canceled my account at that point and took the "wait-and-see" approach. I took a few weeks break (to play Fallout NV) and I totally forgot how to craft and navigate the whole UI thing. Relearning it made me hate the UI a bit more. It went down hill from there.

Over time, I became over critical with FFXIV. "Oh, it has to have this XXX feature or this XXX problem has to be fixed before I come back." was my attitude. For the most part, I raised the bar for FFXIV. I guess after you ate a bad steak in a restaurant, you will demand a bit more than a decent steak to come back to that restaurant.

Edited, Dec 25th 2010 10:34am by Oddwaffle
#224 Dec 25 2010 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
Ostia wrote:

If you listen to kefka's sound track, you can see where sephiroth's came from ....

Either way, only reason as to why sephiroth came back to life(Your argument that gods dont die) is because they needed to milk the FFVII name some more, what would have been AC w/o sephiroth ? Also it seems i know more about FFVII than you do lol, sephiroth manipulates you all game thru, every time you seen him in-game before the crater is not him, is one of his copies <.<

So much for facing his opponents and smacking them lol


I have listened to both tracks. And so sorry, but Sephiroth's sounds waaaay more badass. No one even mentions Kefka's track, though. And I can see why. It's cool, but in comparison to One Winged Angel, well, it's insignificant.

Ever wondered why FFVII gets the "milking" treatment and FFVI doesn't? It's because Square knows what their fans want. Think about it. If FFVI was as popular and loved as FFVII, don't you think Squeenix would have taken advantage of that? Unfortunately, regardless of anyone's opinion of either title, it's just not as popular. It doesn't have the fanbase FFVII has. Heck, besides Kefka, no one really even talks about any of the characters in FFVI. On the other hand, if you think Final Fantasy, the first thing that comes to most people's minds is "Final Fantasy VII". If you think "Final Fantasy characters", the first thing that comes to people's minds is "Cloud, Sephiroth, Aeris, Tifa". Kefka is the most memorable character in FFVI by far, and he still doesn't have half the fanbase of Sephiroth. Or Cloud. Or even AERIS. (Heck, without Kefka, who would even remember FFVI? At least the other characters in FFVII have a fanbase, for crying out loud. lol) That's why FFVII is milked and FFVI is not. Because the money is in FFVII. Because the fans are in FFVII. It's as simple as that.

Also, no, you don't know more about FFVII than me. Your posts literally prove that, lol. During FFVII, whom you are facing is indeed Sephiroth, his will given shape by the power Jenova gave him. It is indeed him. Not some lackey he would hire to do it for him while he sits back and tells another "a man walked into the bar the other day" joke. As Kefka would. lol
#225 Dec 25 2010 at 7:35 PM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
SasukeYuchiha wrote:
Ostia wrote:

If you listen to kefka's sound track, you can see where sephiroth's came from ....

Either way, only reason as to why sephiroth came back to life(Your argument that gods dont die) is because they needed to milk the FFVII name some more, what would have been AC w/o sephiroth ? Also it seems i know more about FFVII than you do lol, sephiroth manipulates you all game thru, every time you seen him in-game before the crater is not him, is one of his copies <.<

So much for facing his opponents and smacking them lol


I have listened to both tracks. And so sorry, but Sephiroth's sounds waaaay more badass. No one even mentions Kefka's track, though. And I can see why. It's cool, but in comparison to One Winged Angel, well, it's insignificant.

Ever wondered why FFVII gets the "milking" treatment and FFVI doesn't? It's because Square knows what their fans want. Think about it. If FFVI was as popular and loved as FFVII, don't you think Squeenix would have taken advantage of that? Unfortunately, regardless of anyone's opinion of either title, it's just not as popular. It doesn't have the fanbase FFVII has. Heck, besides Kefka, no one really even talks about any of the characters in FFVI. On the other hand, if you think Final Fantasy, the first thing that comes to most people's minds is "Final Fantasy VII". If you think "Final Fantasy characters", the first thing that comes to people's minds is "Cloud, Sephiroth, Aeris, Tifa". Kefka is the most memorable character in FFVI by far, and he still doesn't have half the fanbase of Sephiroth. Or Cloud. Or even AERIS. (Heck, without Kefka, who would even remember FFVI? At least the other characters in FFVII have a fanbase, for crying out loud. lol) That's why FFVII is milked and FFVI is not. Because the money is in FFVII. Because the fans are in FFVII. It's as simple as that.

Also, no, you don't know more about FFVII than me. Your posts literally prove that, lol. During FFVII, whom you are facing is indeed Sephiroth, his will given shape by the power Jenova gave him. It is indeed him. Not some lackey he would hire to do it for him while he sits back and tells another "a man walked into the bar the other day" joke. As Kefka would. lol


... Dude, the sephiroth's you see during the entire game are clone's.... except the one in the crater... like seriously.... all that time he was in that crystal thing... he was not killing people around or nothing, he was just there chilling...

Also nobody is "Disputing" the fact that FFVII is the most popular FF out of the 14 main ********* what we have been discussing is that FFVII is an overrated game, if instead of FFVII, FFVI was the one released for the PS1 we would not be talking about FFVII today, why would we ? every character in FFVI has more development than any character in FFVII( Just the base game, not including the 500 add-on's) well maybe exept gogo or gau XD!

Oh and nobuo's best work was in FFVI there is no argument there, to call decending mad irrelevant is just stupid..

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#226 Dec 25 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
Ostia wrote:

... Dude, the sephiroth's you see during the entire game are clone's.... except the one in the crater... like seriously.... all that time he was in that crystal thing... he was not killing people around or nothing, he was just there chilling...

Also nobody is "Disputing" the fact that FFVII is the most popular FF out of the 14 main ********* what we have been discussing is that FFVII is an overrated game, if instead of FFVII, FFVI was the one released for the PS1 we would not be talking about FFVII today, why would we ? every character in FFVI has more development than any character in FFVII( Just the base game, not including the 500 add-on's) well maybe exept gogo or gau XD!

Oh and nobuo's best work was in FFVI there is no argument there, to call decending mad irrelevant is just stupid..



Dude, the Sephiroth you see throughout most of the game is Sephiroth, his will given form. The clones were seen on very rare occasions actually. The only real "clone" (such as he was) we saw too frequently was Cloud. Sephiroth's body was in a crystal, but his will (the actual Sephiroth) was doing the killing. I'm sorry, but you are preaching to the choir, and the choir obviously knows more than you. I am a walking FFVII wikipedia. So you are wasting your time.

I never said anyone was disputing FFVII's popularity. Heck, who could even dispute that? But for you to say FFVII's popularity is only due to FFVI not being released on the PS1 first is utter nonsense in my book. Being released first means absolutely nothing. I say this because FFVI is out now, and FF fans now have access to it, and have for some time, yet though it has picked up a fanbase it still has yet to knock FFVII off the #1 Loved by Fans spot on the Final Fantasy list. The same people who played and loved FFVII have also played FFVI, and it's still not as popular. Not being released on PS1 first means squat nowadays, especially in this age of PS3, when both games were released on earlier generation consoles and FFVII is still the most loved Final Fantasy of all.

As for the characters of FFVI, I'm sorry, but every fan who preaches the greatness of FFVI only ever seem to preach about one character. Kefka. Kefka this, Kefka that. They don't talk about Gau, or Cyan, or, um... whoever the other characters are. It's always Kefka. And Kefka STILL doesn't have even half the fanbase of Sephiroth. Or Cloud. Or Aeris. Or practically any other FFVII character. (Well, maybe a bigger fanbase than Yuffie or Cait Sith, at least.) It's as if Kefka was the only character FFVI fans ever really found remotely interesting. Hm...

Also, "Descending Mad" (I'm glad somebody actually knew the name of that song. lol) is not irrelevant on it's on, and I never said it was. My point was, next to One Winged Angel, it is a mere shadow. Of course, that's just my opinion. And opinions aren't made in stone. Nor are they stupid, they're just different. None can argue, however, that Kefka's theme is nowhere near as popular as Sephiroth's theme. You know, just sayin'.

And, imo, Uematsu's best work was actually FFX's soundtrack. FFVII was his second best, followed by FFIX, FFVIII, then FFVI. But again, opinions...
#227 Dec 25 2010 at 11:36 PM Rating: Excellent
So, getting back on topic...
#228 Dec 25 2010 at 11:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
So, getting back on topic...


Yes, it can, only because of PS3 release and then after that word of mouth will spread and with the fixes the game is getting and I'm sure the plethora of content before they release for PS3, I think it'll be ok.
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#229 Dec 26 2010 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I wonder ir people made arguments like this in the Blizzard forums when they introdoced repetable DAILY quests.

Because that is all these are is optional every other day quests.

So you also hate the Local Levequests for crafting? You know the ones that let you skillup without having mats and learn new recipeits you dont have to goto a website to find.

Good thing i didn't lol at you too.



SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
PS: Leves are quests streamlined for your convenience. I lol at people who hate them. I also lol when people say they're bored of them because every SINGLE update to date has added more. Yeah, I've grinded the same couple 300 times but I'm also doing different ones I've never done before regularly, too. I did one today I'd never even heard of (probably added Dec patch).


Really, you lol at people who hate them? I hope your jaw doesn't fall off. Smiley: rolleyes You wanna talk, talk. You wanna debate something, do so but do so reasonably. Don't start spewing personal attacks at people because they're not you. I'm sorry I for one hate guildleves. I don't absolutely despise them but they are predictable, repetitive and whether they add 10 or a 100 new ones they are the exact same thing over and over again. Glad you like them, I don't. I don't think the guildleve system as a whole is crap, in fact I think there's potential there but SE needs to be more creative with their leves. I just dislike the ones they have in the game now and for the record they have only added in new leves the last update and tbh I haven't even notice pre-rank 30...

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#230 Dec 26 2010 at 2:05 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Also, "Descending Mad" (I'm glad somebody actually knew the name of that song. lol) is not irrelevant on it's on, and I never said it was. My point was, next to One Winged Angel, it is a mere shadow. Of course, that's just my opinion. And opinions aren't made in stone. Nor are they stupid, they're just different. None can argue, however, that Kefka's theme is nowhere near as popular as Sephiroth's theme. You know, just sayin'.


Actually, it's Dancing Mad, and it's extremely popular among fans of FF music-- right up there with One Winged Angel. Personally, I think it's a better song, and many others agree.

That said, I more or less agree with you about FF7. I just don't see it as overrated. I see a lot of people who prefer FF6, which was a similarly great game (I certainly struggle with which I liked better), and don't understand why it doesn't get the same attention that FF7 gets. But in that sense, I think FF6 is generally underrated-- not the other way around.

FF7 deserves all of the accolades it receives imo. I think a lot of people are just butthurt that FF6 (or their FF of choice) doesn't get the same.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#231 Dec 26 2010 at 2:27 AM Rating: Excellent
45 posts
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
So, getting back on topic...


lol Indeed. Sorry I got so carried away with stuff.

Anyways, to answer the true question of this thread, I side with the so-called troll. Although FF14 is in a much better shape than it was when it released, it's still unbelievably broken. I'm disappointed and insulted; Disappointed because I know Square can do much better than this, insulted that they would release the game in the state is was/is in and expect people to pay a monthly fee for it. They must not generally think much of their fans.

I'm only angry about this because I want this game to succeed. I figured it would be a nice alternative to the same ol same ol that WoW gives it's playerbase. And while the premise of it is neat, the execution was terrible. This was one of the sloppiest, laziest, careless game releases in history. And that hurts, because the idea of the game is so cool.
#232 Dec 26 2010 at 3:13 AM Rating: Good
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What really makes me angry is that it’s the worst releases ever, and its not done by any small or new company, but by SE, and not with any title, but with final fantasy title, how could they do this is beyond me.
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#233 Dec 26 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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SasukeYuchiha wrote:
Ostia wrote:

... Dude, the sephiroth's you see during the entire game are clone's.... except the one in the crater... like seriously.... all that time he was in that crystal thing... he was not killing people around or nothing, he was just there chilling...

Also nobody is "Disputing" the fact that FFVII is the most popular FF out of the 14 main ********* what we have been discussing is that FFVII is an overrated game, if instead of FFVII, FFVI was the one released for the PS1 we would not be talking about FFVII today, why would we ? every character in FFVI has more development than any character in FFVII( Just the base game, not including the 500 add-on's) well maybe exept gogo or gau XD!

Oh and nobuo's best work was in FFVI there is no argument there, to call decending mad irrelevant is just stupid..



Dude, the Sephiroth you see throughout most of the game is Sephiroth, his will given form. The clones were seen on very rare occasions actually. The only real "clone" (such as he was) we saw too frequently was Cloud. Sephiroth's body was in a crystal, but his will (the actual Sephiroth) was doing the killing. I'm sorry, but you are preaching to the choir, and the choir obviously knows more than you. I am a walking FFVII wikipedia. So you are wasting your time.

I never said anyone was disputing FFVII's popularity. Heck, who could even dispute that? But for you to say FFVII's popularity is only due to FFVI not being released on the PS1 first is utter nonsense in my book. Being released first means absolutely nothing. I say this because FFVI is out now, and FF fans now have access to it, and have for some time, yet though it has picked up a fanbase it still has yet to knock FFVII off the #1 Loved by Fans spot on the Final Fantasy list. The same people who played and loved FFVII have also played FFVI, and it's still not as popular. Not being released on PS1 first means squat nowadays, especially in this age of PS3, when both games were released on earlier generation consoles and FFVII is still the most loved Final Fantasy of all.

As for the characters of FFVI, I'm sorry, but every fan who preaches the greatness of FFVI only ever seem to preach about one character. Kefka. Kefka this, Kefka that. They don't talk about Gau, or Cyan, or, um... whoever the other characters are. It's always Kefka. And Kefka STILL doesn't have even half the fanbase of Sephiroth. Or Cloud. Or Aeris. Or practically any other FFVII character. (Well, maybe a bigger fanbase than Yuffie or Cait Sith, at least.) It's as if Kefka was the only character FFVI fans ever really found remotely interesting. Hm...

Also, "Descending Mad" (I'm glad somebody actually knew the name of that song. lol) is not irrelevant on it's on, and I never said it was. My point was, next to One Winged Angel, it is a mere shadow. Of course, that's just my opinion. And opinions aren't made in stone. Nor are they stupid, they're just different. None can argue, however, that Kefka's theme is nowhere near as popular as Sephiroth's theme. You know, just sayin'.

And, imo, Uematsu's best work was actually FFX's soundtrack. FFVII was his second best, followed by FFIX, FFVIII, then FFVI. But again, opinions...


Dancing mad was the inspiration to compose one wing angel... NU wanted to top dancing mad wish was created under the limits of 16-bit system, so of course one wing angel would be over the top(It had a Chorus!!!) and this is not an opinion, he stated as much in an interview, as for FFVII having a bigger fanbase, sure it does, but that does not make it a better game, **** mario has a bigger fanbase than all FF series, and is not a better series XD! FFVII has a huge fanbase because it was the first 3D Rpg and spearheaded the PS1 era of Rpg's, Story wise or gameplay wise, it has nothing on FFVI, SE toke what worked from FFVI and made improved on it(Materia system) or made it look prettier (Graphics).

Also you should note that every FF that debute's for the next gen will alway's have a larger fanbase than previews installments Ex: FFVII,FFX,FFXIII.
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#234 Dec 26 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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daour wrote:
What really makes me angry is that it’s the worst releases ever, and its not done by any small or new company, but by SE, and not with any title, but with final fantasy title, how could they do this is beyond me.


Exactly. That would be like Shigeru Miyamoto releasing a buggy and unresponsive Mario title. All the gaming world would be like "WTF!?" and would probably riot.

This is just terrible. I've played so many Final Fantasy titles that were excellent and well made. What exactly made Squeenix think they could get away with releasing this crap? If they want to save this game and their reputation, they had better hurry up and make as many fixes as they can.
#235 Dec 26 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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1,636 posts
SasukeYuchiha wrote:
daour wrote:
What really makes me angry is that it’s the worst releases ever, and its not done by any small or new company, but by SE, and not with any title, but with final fantasy title, how could they do this is beyond me.


Exactly. That would be like Shigeru Miyamoto releasing a buggy and unresponsive Mario title. All the gaming world would be like "WTF!?" and would probably riot.

This is just terrible. I've played so many Final Fantasy titles that were excellent and well made. What exactly made Squeenix think they could get away with releasing this crap? If they want to save this game and their reputation, they had better hurry up and make as many fixes as they can.


heh, i'm not sure Final Fantasy is quite at mario's level, but I do get your point :)

As far as how could they release it? I still think they had no idea that their game was crappy until after it was released and reviewed. I can tell because they are still sticking to their guns on some of their awful ideas, which makes me think they still believe in them.
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#236 Dec 26 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Phantasy Star II and IV were two of my favorite JRPGs on my Sega Genesis. It sucks that Phantasy Star III was such a stinker, I just couldn't get into it.

Once Playstation came around it seemed like RPGs were a dime a dozen, but most of them were really well made and had great story and gameplay.

Back when NES JRPGs were around, I was mostly playing The Legend of Zelda, and Megaman games. I guess I was just a bit too young to get in on the RPG action. My uncle Al had a Famicom and translation journals for a bunch of Japanese games, I remember wondering wtf they were back when I was little.

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#237 Dec 26 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
Heh, I think this got a bit off topic. . .


Give it about four to six months and there will be server merges. No matter what UI fixes or Ward, AH updates they implement it's not going to fix the fact that the game has no meat. Now that I'm not blinded by my frustration at the UI lag and organization I see this. Beyond the leves what does the game offer? Grind mats for crafting next to every other crafter? Grind the same mobs everyone else is? Leave my char logged in at the steps of uldah to sell stuff while I go play minecraft? I need meat with my dinner... I'm not asian tofu doesn't fill me up.. Give me an epic reason to play, a story with a hook that leads me, a challenging battle system that entertains me, a interface and world that encourages cooperation and socialization and I'll play for years. I'm tired of being a fixed variable in a static world..

Kudos to SE for fixing a number of issues, but in reality they should have been fixed in beta. Why is it I spend twice the time to do my Local leves vs the Battle leves? Was SE trying to make a game for fashion designers? Ohhh that's cute I bet my cat girl will look good in that! I'll admit I bought new undies for my character with the excuse of stat increases but I really just wanted to see how it looked. Yet the fact remains crafting should be secondary to battle, but in FFXIV they put more effort into the crafting than battle.

In the current state I won't pay for it. Lack of content, population, and poor in game economy. IMHO I think it's dying, it'll retain a small group of fanboys on a few servers for a few years then poof, gone. SE has one chance to revitalize the game and that will be during the PS3 release, they better fix what's broke, add what the players want, and market like ****.
#238 Dec 26 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Johnsmith129 wrote:

It has never made sense to me if you don't like the game why are you on these forums? I could understand if u wish to see it turn around, but than again your not the ones bashing it. Give me one intelligent answer?

There isn't one, just a bunch of dissatisfaction and rants because it didn't meet your expectations.


Do I really have to tell you something that's dictated by common sense? *Sigh* Well, ok, if you insist -- the reason people do it is because it's cathartic.

If you don't know the meaning of the word "cathartic", I'd direct your attention to www.dictionary.com. I can't do everything for you.

Johnsmith129 wrote:

Boo hoo move along because there are plenty of people who like the game and are excited about its future implentations to keep it going now, and will be even moreso after PS3 launch.

Peace haters


No, not really. :P There are not, and will not be in the near future, "plenty" of people. MMOs, by nature, require a large playerbase in order to deliver the fullness of the gameplay experience that they promise. If a game can't muster a certain minimum population, it'll wither on the vine, beginning a gradual but likely irreversible decline into oblivion. I've seen this happen with a few games before.

Newsflash: FF14 is currently perilously close to being in that state. When people log in and are greeted by empty linkshells, the game does not have "plenty" of people in it. And no, it won't just spontaneously get better in response to your magical thoughts, I'm afraid.
#239 Dec 26 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
Sethern79 wrote:
JorieRhand wrote:

And this is the exact result from that same player base asking for a game that you can solo or only requires a few people to be fully able to participate in all content. So by listening to its player base SE stabbed itself in the back.


Whst? wait wait wait.. What? The player base asked for a game that you can solo or party in. So SE said sure. that sounds like fun. And by doing so made this heeping pile of dog crap? ok ok ok... Now god if I could only think of a game like what the player's are looking for that worked. Oh ya WoW. You can solo. you can group. you can raid. Or if you want you can stand around town doing a jig on the mailbox in you undies!

This game wich offers solo/group/raid play is the number 1 MMO of all time. it holds records. Cata that just came out sold 3.1 millon copys on its first day!! The fastest selling PC game of all time

Whats my point? I forgot... Oh ya.. SE did not stab them self in the back by listening to the players. They stabed them self in the back by being greedy jerkoffs who just had to beat Cata/Starwars out the gate. Its not listening to the players that made this game crap. Its SE own greedy corporate stinkhole tactics that made FFXIV the game it is today.


This x infinity. Squared.

You, sir, win the most common sense said on the internet award. *applause*
#240 Dec 26 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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All they need to do is add something to do and tweak the stats to have some balance.

When the players have something to do they'll rather play than spend so much time on the forums. Me included.

Now I'm slightly too keen on hitting f5 on their website to see what's coming.
#241 Dec 26 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
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I was really psyched for this game. But after hoping for something better after the beta, I had to let out a giant sigh and unsubscribe. I'll re-visit the game & the community in 8-12 months and see if they Devs have made any *REAL* game changing improvements. (V_V)
#243 Dec 27 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Default
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MetalSmith wrote:
XIV has a good engine on it. That means potential. Everything is set up to support a great game. All they need is a great game.


/facepalm.
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#244 Dec 27 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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off topic
for the ff7 vs ff6 i quote this
Quote:
men lie, women lie numbers don't


on topic
ffxiv may survive its player base, mainly because of the ps3
the only way they're going to survive is marketing
and we all know there not good at that(keep leaving it to the final fantasy name)

lets look at good old WoW for an example'
blizzard markets the **** out of its products and so do most other games
my girlfriend(does not play any type of video game)asked me if i wanted WOW for Christmas
i was baffled she even new what it was. MARKETING.

if you know anything about marketing sublime or any other type you will know what i mean
#245 Dec 27 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
the only way they're going to survive is marketing
and we all know there not good at that(keep leaving it to the final fantasy name)


Maybe not outside of Japan, which is a shame.
#246 Dec 27 2010 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent
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tombiggy wrote:
MetalSmith wrote:
XIV has a good engine on it. That means potential. Everything is set up to support a great game. All they need is a great game.


/facepalm.


90% of game development is developing the engine. In other words, they have all of the architecture for the game in place, but they decided to release the game with just that, architecture. Normal Mapped textures and High Dynamic Range lighting and occlusion mapping and everything is difficult to put into a game. It is a great support for a good MMO, but it's missing everything I think of when I think of RPG. That being quests, Economy, and characters interacting. The party menu is still a pain to use to search for a group at any sort of a distance.
#247 Dec 28 2010 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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The odds that FFXIV will rebound at this point to expected sales projections isn't realistic. A launch for a MMO nowadays must hit the ground running, not still in Beta form. It never surprises me how people still compare FFXI to FFXIV's launch woes. On that note, I'm going to point out a few differences between the two games.

FFXI:
Released in Japan on a very affordable PS2 HDD.
PC version came out later and was a port.
The best selling MMO at the time was Ever Quest and there wasn't much competition.
It was SE's first MMO.
Zilart the first expansion was included in the NA release giving them more content than the JP launch.
FFXI had a 4 month Beta.

FFXIV:
Released on PC requiring $2000 rigs just to play at optimal performance(less lag, etc)
No console launch or cheap entry for people to dive in without spending a fortune.
Lack of content for the NA/EU crowd compared to FFXI's Zilart launch
WoW has like 11mil users plus there are tons of other MMO's including FFXI and that's not even counting all the MMO's coming out in 2011.
FFXIV had a 2 1/2 month Beta or close to it.

I think the problems for FFXIV go well beyond just the content and interface problems. It's clear that SE didn't learn a thing during the last 8 years which is kinda sad. There is more competition than ever in the mmorpg market and you barely see any advertising for FFXIV. This is SE's 2nd MMO after all. Yet it launched worldwide with less content than FFXI. I know that the JP barely got anything at FFXI's launch, but again that was the first ever MMO so you should expect more now.

I'll be honest and admit I was one of those people that had high hopes for FFXIV. I thought that if it was good enough, it would take people away from WoW. Now because of being letdown, I'm not sure if I'll give it a shot after the game is playable to my standards. My reasons are simple. The max potential of FFXIV was lessened because of the failed launch. A well-received launch would only help to establish a stronger community than the one we have now. The stronger the community, the longer the game will last. Now the game will have less of a community because of the launch problems. That bothers me on more than one level. It concerns me that all the work I will do on my virtual character will be for nothing because I'll be playing with far less people than I should be. People aren't going to settle on a problematic game when so many other games offer so much more without the hassle. That's why I'm too optimistic of FFXIV's future. No matter how much SE improves the game, I doubt it will have the same long-term community that FFXI has enjoyed.
#248 Dec 28 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
45 posts
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
The odds that FFXIV will rebound at this point to expected sales projections isn't realistic. A launch for a MMO nowadays must hit the ground running, not still in Beta form. It never surprises me how people still compare FFXI to FFXIV's launch woes. On that note, I'm going to point out a few differences between the two games.

FFXI:
Released in Japan on a very affordable PS2 HDD.
PC version came out later and was a port.
The best selling MMO at the time was Ever Quest and there wasn't much competition.
It was SE's first MMO.
Zilart the first expansion was included in the NA release giving them more content than the JP launch.
FFXI had a 4 month Beta.

FFXIV:
Released on PC requiring $2000 rigs just to play at optimal performance(less lag, etc)
No console launch or cheap entry for people to dive in without spending a fortune.
Lack of content for the NA/EU crowd compared to FFXI's Zilart launch
WoW has like 11mil users plus there are tons of other MMO's including FFXI and that's not even counting all the MMO's coming out in 2011.
FFXIV had a 2 1/2 month Beta or close to it.

I think the problems for FFXIV go well beyond just the content and interface problems. It's clear that SE didn't learn a thing during the last 8 years which is kinda sad. There is more competition than ever in the mmorpg market and you barely see any advertising for FFXIV. This is SE's 2nd MMO after all. Yet it launched worldwide with less content than FFXI. I know that the JP barely got anything at FFXI's launch, but again that was the first ever MMO so you should expect more now.

I'll be honest and admit I was one of those people that had high hopes for FFXIV. I thought that if it was good enough, it would take people away from WoW. Now because of being letdown, I'm not sure if I'll give it a shot after the game is playable to my standards. My reasons are simple. The max potential of FFXIV was lessened because of the failed launch. A well-received launch would only help to establish a stronger community than the one we have now. The stronger the community, the longer the game will last. Now the game will have less of a community because of the launch problems. That bothers me on more than one level. It concerns me that all the work I will do on my virtual character will be for nothing because I'll be playing with far less people than I should be. People aren't going to settle on a problematic game when so many other games offer so much more without the hassle. That's why I'm too optimistic of FFXIV's future. No matter how much SE improves the game, I doubt it will have the same long-term community that FFXI has enjoyed.


^^Pretty much this.

I too went into this game expecting some serious fun. And while the premise for the game is awesome and all, the execution was stale and poorly done. I thought I'd be playing 2 mmorpgs this year, but it looks like I'll just be playing Star Wars The Old Republic. Pity.
#249 Dec 28 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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415 posts
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
FFXI:
Released in Japan on a very affordable PS2 HDD.
PC version came out later and was a port.
The best selling MMO at the time was Ever Quest and there wasn't much competition.
It was SE's first MMO.
Zilart the first expansion was included in the NA release giving them more content than the JP launch.
FFXI had a 4 month Beta.

FFXIV:
Released on PC requiring $2000 rigs just to play at optimal performance(less lag, etc)
No console launch or cheap entry for people to dive in without spending a fortune.
Lack of content for the NA/EU crowd compared to FFXI's Zilart launch
WoW has like 11mil users plus there are tons of other MMO's including FFXI and that's not even counting all the MMO's coming out in 2011.
FFXIV had a 2 1/2 month Beta or close to it.

1. My $700 rig runs the game almost as well as my $1200 rig, as do other peoples' $700 rigs. Not all of us purchased overpriced PC's from Dell and Alienware.

2. It's been free-to-play since launch. That's $30-80 depending on which version you bought, and when. Considering you're talking strictly about price in this statement, FFXIV is a lot cheaper from a monthly standpoint.

3. Yet another person comparing the content of a game launch to that of a game launch plus expansion. Nothing to see here.

4. WoW is WoW. It's a mainstream game that you're comparing to a niche game. If you prefer mainstream games, you obviously don't fit the niche, and so you are obviously playing the wrong game.

5. FFXIV is still in beta. Basically we're testing the game for the PS3 players, much like the JP players tested FFXI for NA.

Also, lol @ the FF7 debate. I can't believe people still think that crap was somehow a good game...

Tactics, now that's a story.

Edited, Dec 28th 2010 7:32pm by SoumaKyou
#250 Dec 28 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
45 posts
SoumaKyou wrote:
1. My $700 rig runs the game almost as well as my $1200 rig, as do other peoples' $700 rigs. Not all of us purchased overpriced PC's from Dell and Alienware.


Well good for you. Nevertheless, there have been many players who have had to upgrade their rig to even think about playing this game on basic settings, or at the very least buy a new graphics card. I am one of those people who had to upgrade my graphics card to play this game, a graphics card, btw, that ran my other PC games as smooth as butter.

SoumaKyou wrote:
2. It's been free-to-play since launch. That's $30-80 depending on which version you bought, and when. Considering you're talking strictly about price in this statement, FFXIV is a lot cheaper from a monthly standpoint.


Yes, it's free to play now. And with the so-called "content" the developers put in this game, and the bugs, and the lack of nearly everything that makes an mmorpg good, we are literally getting what we pay for. Well actually, we've all overpaid, as we still had to buy the initial game disc. Yes, the devs are hard at work fixing what they can. But when this game was released, they expected people to actually want to pay for it. I mean, seriously, what the ****?

SoumaKyou wrote:
3. Yet another person comparing the content of a game launch to that of a game launch plus expansion. Nothing to see here.


Well, to be fair, comparing it to another mmorpg pre-expansion wouldn't do much to help FFXIV's case. I've played other mmorpgs at launch and this is probably the worst I've seen. So... yeah.

SoumaKyou wrote:
4. WoW is WoW. It's a mainstream game that you're comparing to a niche game. If you prefer mainstream games, you obviously don't fit the niche, and so you are obviously playing the wrong game.


WoW is an mmorpg, so the comparison is actually pretty legit. I could aklso compare this to Aion at launch. I wasn't all that thrilled by Aion, but I had a lot more fun in that game than I'm having in this one. Why? Because the developers handled the game like they actually has some respect for their playerbase.

SoumaKyou wrote:
5. FFXIV is still in beta. Basically we're testing the game for the PS3 players, much like the JP players tested FFXI for NA.


Yes, FFXIV is still in beta. Why? Because when they released the game, it was a complete pile of crap. So they are doing emergency revisions and pulling it back to beta. Although it might take more than going back to the drawing board to save this game.

Also, Squeenix's marketing tactics for this game stink.

And another thing, lol at the people who still think their opinions about which FF is the best is the only one right. Makes more sense (and looks much more creditable and less mock-worthy) to simply say that they prefer one over the other for some reasons. I, personally, loved FF7 and hated Tactics' story, which IN MY OPINION seemed to be a confusing, corny, unlikable mess. I disliked it even more than I did Chrono Cross. lol But then again, to each his own.

Edited, Dec 28th 2010 7:42pm by SasukeYuchiha
#251 Dec 28 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Default
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415 posts
^ And so we reach the point I was making.

Congratulations, you people have just found out that you're allowed to have your own opinions, and others are too.

P.S. FF7 being complete crap is fact, not opinion.

P.P.S. If you think FFXIV is hard to run, try running BC2. Makes you appreciate the fact that this game is actually playable at acceptable frame rates without having a ridiculous PC.

Edited, Dec 28th 2010 7:48pm by SoumaKyou
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