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To those in new crafting attire..Follow

#1 Dec 20 2010 at 4:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have seen some players wearing the new crafting attire, with absolutely no regard for control gear whatsoever anymore. I was wondering, how has that been working out for you.

I am still wearing the old canvas stuff, with head/hands/waist +control items. While I am generally able to craft the items I want most of time as required by leves and such, I was contemplating about making the move to get the new crafting items i.e Coatee, Wedge Cap etc. But before I do so, I would appreciate some community feedback on the new gear first i.e.

i) With the higher craftmanship values, do you get more frequent success during synths?
ii) With lack of control, does aetherial sparking occur more often? Or elemental instability?

Thank you in advance.
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#2 Dec 20 2010 at 8:01 AM Rating: Default
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As far as I know..

Craftsmanship: Increases the success rate..
Magic Craftsmanship: Increases the quality gained during a synthesis attempt..
Control: Increases the stability of the synthesis and decreases durability loss..
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#3 Dec 20 2010 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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According to one of the developer Q/As Craftsmanship increases the success rate for SOME recipes. Magic Craftsmanship does it for the other ones. Control supposedly reduces the chance of sparks over both types of recipes.

I haven't seen the new gear on my server that I know of... nor have I seen recipes... though not sure what it's called so it's hard to look them up. I am kind of partial to my new beret that I got from a botany guildleve though. It is spiffy... though I wish it weren't pink ><;
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#4 Dec 20 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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KaineGestalt wrote:
As far as I know..

Craftsmanship: Increases the success rate..
Magic Craftsmanship: Increases the quality gained during a synthesis attempt..
Control: Increases the stability of the synthesis and decreases durability loss..

People continue to say this, but SE pretty clearly stated that recipes are influenced by either or, not both. Is there any proof out there to support this?

My own personal experiance with the new +Craftsmanship from linen has been positive. At 40 GS with what was pretty much the "best" gear available (Velveteen, Boarskin/Toadskin), I had some trouble with +7 stat rings. However with the Linen Wedge Cap + Shortgloves, the synth was more reasonable, and I completed a set of Goshenite for a friend.

As far as increased instability or sparks, I can't say.. Not enough synths using linen to get a feel.

Edit - I dug up the lodestone topic:
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=f3481ce5f7787bea23c4677452f271d7a0a84d5f

Quote:
Q. What do the crafter-related attributes Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanhip, and Control each do?
A. Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned.

All recipes, however, have set attribute requirements. Attempting a recipe with attributes below those required will result in lessened progress and quality, even for successful actions.


Edited, Dec 20th 2010 9:34am by Coyohma
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#5 Dec 20 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Here are the canvas versions of what the OP is referring to I believe.

canvas coatee

canvas short gloves

canvas bottom

canvas gaiters

canvas wedge cap

there are also velveteen and linen versions. When I craft I tend to mix some of these items (like the hat and the hands) with my old canvas set. The body piece and feet seem better suited for gathering, though the entire set is rather cute. ^^
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#6 Dec 20 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
seavida wrote:

i) With the higher craftmanship values, do you get more frequent success during synths?
ii) With lack of control, does aetherial sparking occur more often? Or elemental instability?


I didn't craft a ton this weekend since donning the new sets, however, I can say that I did see element instability and sparks more than I have in the past, but I seemed to be gaining more progress and failing less often overall it felt like I was doing better, but that's hardly conclusive evidence.
#7 Dec 20 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Coyohma wrote:

Quote:
Q. What do the crafter-related attributes Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanhip, and Control each do?
A. Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned.

All recipes, however, have set attribute requirements. Attempting a recipe with attributes below those required will result in lessened progress and quality, even for successful actions.


I did read about this but "Mag Craftsmanship works for some and Craftsmanship for others" is just incredibly vague.. It's impossible to find out if not by trying for example ten times the same recipe with mag craftsmanship equipment and ten times with craftsmanship.. and see which one succeeded the most in the end.. :s
Or is there another way around it..?
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#8 Dec 20 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
I use the the head/gloves/waist from the new set for my general crafting (105 craftsmanship ftw on my 32 smith) and I haven't really come across any real negatives at the loss of the control and slightly lower magic craftsmanship so far with smithing, any elemental instabilities are usually no issue since they typically fall under my 3 main elements (fire/wind/earth) 80+ with all of them with the latter 2 over 100. Though I did have some issues when it came to leatherworking, every earth instability had gone critical after one synth attempt but this may be more due to the disparity between the synth rank and my tanner rank. All in all I would advise any crafter to at least pick up the head/gloves/waist along with the body if you have some synths that prefer magic craftmanship.
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#9 Dec 20 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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I'm running 97 craftsmanship, 63 mag. craft and 37 or so control on my weaver set currently.

It's working out for me really well so far. Will update if I notice something particularly unusual.
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#10 Dec 20 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Coyohma wrote:
KaineGestalt wrote:
As far as I know..

Craftsmanship: Increases the success rate..
Magic Craftsmanship: Increases the quality gained during a synthesis attempt..
Control: Increases the stability of the synthesis and decreases durability loss..

People continue to say this, but SE pretty clearly stated that recipes are influenced by either or, not both. Is there any proof out there to support this?


I understand what you're saying, I agree with you, but let's just put a stop to this nonsense right here and right now. Let's not ask for proof. Just shut them down. Grind them into the ground under your boot if you must until people get it through their heads that it has been explained to us, it is relatively simple, and there are no excuses for guessing on that particular topic anymore.

Some recipes favor craftsmanship. Craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

Other recipes favor magic craftsmanship. Magic craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

How can you tell which stat a recipe favors? Look at a list on a site (or through your own experimentation) and find out which tool gives you additional quantity and which tools gives you additional quality (HQ1/2/3). Whichever tool gives you the quantity result is your hint to which stat the recipe favors.

Main hand = craftsmanship
Off hand = magic craftsmanship

(Finished items like gear favor both, with emphasis on craftsmanship, and will always give HQ1/2/3 results. That's why we were given tools like raising hammers (in addition to doming hammers), <whatever>beak hammers (in addition to cross-pein hammers, and ornamental hammers (in addition to chaser hammers). Different stat distribution. Slightly different purpose.)

And what that means is that unless SE changed it, control is your universal stat. If you're stacking craftsmanship and using your offhand tool for everything (like an armorer ranking up on rings/chain using pliers) you're missing the boat.
#11 Dec 20 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:

control is your universal stat.


thank you.
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#12 Dec 20 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
Aurelius wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
KaineGestalt wrote:
As far as I know..

Craftsmanship: Increases the success rate..
Magic Craftsmanship: Increases the quality gained during a synthesis attempt..
Control: Increases the stability of the synthesis and decreases durability loss..

People continue to say this, but SE pretty clearly stated that recipes are influenced by either or, not both. Is there any proof out there to support this?


I understand what you're saying, I agree with you, but let's just put a stop to this nonsense right here and right now. Let's not ask for proof. Just shut them down. Grind them into the ground under your boot if you must until people get it through their heads that it has been explained to us, it is relatively simple, and there are no excuses for guessing on that particular topic anymore.

Some recipes favor craftsmanship. Craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

Other recipes favor magic craftsmanship. Magic craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

How can you tell which stat a recipe favors? Look at a list on a site (or through your own experimentation) and find out which tool gives you additional quantity and which tools gives you additional quality (HQ1/2/3). Whichever tool gives you the quantity result is your hint to which stat the recipe favors.

Main hand = craftsmanship
Off hand = magic craftsmanship

(Finished items like gear favor both, with emphasis on craftsmanship, and will always give HQ1/2/3 results. That's why we were given tools like raising hammers (in addition to doming hammers), <whatever>beak hammers (in addition to cross-pein hammers, and ornamental hammers (in addition to chaser hammers). Different stat distribution. Slightly different purpose.)

And what that means is that unless SE changed it, control is your universal stat. If you're stacking craftsmanship and using your offhand tool for everything (like an armorer ranking up on rings/chain using pliers) you're missing the boat.


Aur, if I was a woman, I would so want your babies right now. You have answered one of those questions I've been meaning to ask for ages.
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#13 Dec 20 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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KaineGestalt wrote:
As far as I know..

Maybe I haven't made it visible enough..
It means that I know that because I've read it around.. jesus.. I haven't said it must be like that.. no need to troll me.. -.-


Edited, Dec 20th 2010 2:40pm by KaineGestalt
#14 Dec 20 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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KaineGestalt wrote:
KaineGestalt wrote:
As far as I know..

Maybe I haven't made it visible enough..
It means that I know that because I've read it around.. jesus.. I haven't said it must be like that.. no need to troll me.. -.-


Edited, Dec 20th 2010 2:40pm by KaineGestalt


I honestly feel like it was less of a troll and more of an effort to clearly define something many have been confused about. Don't take it personally, it's quite a helpful clarification for most, really. ^^
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#15 Dec 20 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:

I understand what you're saying, I agree with you, but let's just put a stop to this nonsense right here and right now. Let's not ask for proof. Just shut them down. Grind them into the ground under your boot if you must until people get it through their heads that it has been explained to us, it is relatively simple, and there are no excuses for guessing on that particular topic anymore.

Some recipes favor craftsmanship. Craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

Other recipes favor magic craftsmanship. Magic craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

How can you tell which stat a recipe favors? Look at a list on a site (or through your own experimentation) and find out which tool gives you additional quantity and which tools gives you additional quality (HQ1/2/3). Whichever tool gives you the quantity result is your hint to which stat the recipe favors.

Main hand = craftsmanship
Off hand = magic craftsmanship

(Finished items like gear favor both, with emphasis on craftsmanship, and will always give HQ1/2/3 results. That's why we were given tools like raising hammers (in addition to doming hammers), <whatever>beak hammers (in addition to cross-pein hammers, and ornamental hammers (in addition to chaser hammers). Different stat distribution. Slightly different purpose.)

And what that means is that unless SE changed it, control is your universal stat. If you're stacking craftsmanship and using your offhand tool for everything (like an armorer ranking up on rings/chain using pliers) you're missing the boat.


I like what you're saying, I just want to know where you get the "main=craftsmanship, off=magic craftsmanship" and "quantity tool reveals the focus" points from.
#16 Dec 20 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I currently use a mix of the old and new armor, and I switch it up when things seem to be going bad. I think that once we know which recipes require which stats, it will be easier to see the effects of the different gear.
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#17 Dec 20 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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purrrfect wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

I understand what you're saying, I agree with you, but let's just put a stop to this nonsense right here and right now. Let's not ask for proof. Just shut them down. Grind them into the ground under your boot if you must until people get it through their heads that it has been explained to us, it is relatively simple, and there are no excuses for guessing on that particular topic anymore.

Some recipes favor craftsmanship. Craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

Other recipes favor magic craftsmanship. Magic craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

How can you tell which stat a recipe favors? Look at a list on a site (or through your own experimentation) and find out which tool gives you additional quantity and which tools gives you additional quality (HQ1/2/3). Whichever tool gives you the quantity result is your hint to which stat the recipe favors.

Main hand = craftsmanship
Off hand = magic craftsmanship

(Finished items like gear favor both, with emphasis on craftsmanship, and will always give HQ1/2/3 results. That's why we were given tools like raising hammers (in addition to doming hammers), <whatever>beak hammers (in addition to cross-pein hammers, and ornamental hammers (in addition to chaser hammers). Different stat distribution. Slightly different purpose.)

And what that means is that unless SE changed it, control is your universal stat. If you're stacking craftsmanship and using your offhand tool for everything (like an armorer ranking up on rings/chain using pliers) you're missing the boat.


I like what you're saying, I just want to know where you get the "main=craftsmanship, off=magic craftsmanship" and "quantity tool reveals the focus" points from.


FOr main craftsmanship, off magic craftsmanship, just look at the stats on the tools. That's all you need to do. Look at which stat is favored on main hand base tools (ie. cross-pien hammers, chaser hammers, doming hammers) and then look at the stats favored on off-hand tools (files, grinding wheels, spinning wheels, pliers, mortars, etc.)

Then look at different recipes where it clearly makes sense from a practical point of view to use a specific offhand tool (ie. yarn with a spinning wheel or metal rings from wire with pliers) and look at the HQ outcomes for main and offhand tools. Sprinkle in a dash of common sense and voila!
#18 Dec 20 2010 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
FOr main craftsmanship, off magic craftsmanship, just look at the stats on the tools. That's all you need to do. Look at which stat is favored on main hand base tools (ie. cross-pien hammers, chaser hammers, doming hammers) and then look at the stats favored on off-hand tools (files, grinding wheels, spinning wheels, pliers, mortars, etc.)

Then look at different recipes where it clearly makes sense from a practical point of view to use a specific offhand tool (ie. yarn with a spinning wheel or metal rings from wire with pliers) and look at the HQ outcomes for main and offhand tools. Sprinkle in a dash of common sense and voila!t

It's Square we're talking about, those who gave +CHR on paladin gear, +INT on thief gear and so on. I would prefer someone actually parse high amounts of synths, noting the results of crafting with high Craftsmanship versus high Mag. Craft., then comparing high to similar numbers with and without control.

My impression from what square said is that Control is used to reduce sparks, and help resolve crystal going unstable. Sparks only happen when you Bold, Rapid or Touch Up from what I've seen (never had sparks from standard synths. Have anyone?), and Crystals can only go unstable as the result of a failed synth, which should happen less with high craftsmanship/mag. craftsmanship.

Basically, my reasoning is that Control seems the most worthless of the three stat for what I'm doing (mostly trying to leveling up). This, however, is my personal theory. I can't back it with numbers, but I should be able to notice new trends as I keep crafting; I have a few months of past experience with more balanced stats to compare with.

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 5:11pm by Docent42
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#19 Dec 20 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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You need some Control or else yes, you can spark on even standard. I have seen it before when skilling up trying recipes clearly way beyond me, although admittedly it was quite some time ago. With how much easier SE has made Standard, I suspect that you won't even see sparking on Standard anymore unless you're not wearing any Control gear and are one or two tools behind.
#20 Dec 20 2010 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
It's Square we're talking about, those who gave +CHR on paladin gear, +INT on thief gear and so on. I would prefer someone actually parse high amounts of synths, noting the results of crafting with high Craftsmanship versus high Mag. Craft., then comparing high to similar numbers with and without control.


Be my guest. In the meantime, common sense prevails. I don't care what SE did in FFXI. This isn't FFXI. If you want to sit down and parse thousands of synths on recipes that either grant no SP or while you're at the rank cap and then filter out all potential external influences, I'm not going to stop you. In the meantime, I'm not too concerned with people disbelieving me despite the numbers and explanations being directly in their face because I don't have a thirteen page uberdork thesis to back it up. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, yadda yadda. Sometimes it's worth complicating things in an effort to simplify them. Other times, it's not.
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