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#1 Dec 20 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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I've been playing since CE release, and up until this point I have somehow completely avoided crafting all together. A few million gil later in NPC repairs (31THM/23CON/15MIN/15BOT/14FSH), I've reluctantly accepted the fact the SE wants me to craft (I know I'm stubborn and should have accepted that truth a while ago).

My primary goal for crafting is to be able to repair my own stuff, and because I'm dual leveling CON and THM, I'm going to need Weaver, Goldsmith, Carpenter. Leveling DoL, I've stockpiled a significant quantity of mats to support my power crafting sessions. I've studied up on some guides, but still have some questions. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond.

Basics


(1) To level crafting quickly and efficiently, should I always spend the gil on guild support?

(2) To level crafting quickly and efficiently, should I focus on leves (across multiple cities) or straight up grinding?

(3) With regards to crafting leves, I know that you should always use ALL of the free mats provided, but I've heard that some leves require you to run to camps to deliver crafted goods. Is traveling to the satellite camps a waste of time for SP returns?

(4) To level crafting quickly and efficiently (i.e. I don't care about HQ's), is control my most important stat in crafting gear? Do I need to worry about crafting gear prior to Rank 10?

Cross-class dependence / sub-jobs

(5) Generally speaking, if I just want to level GLD, WVR, and CRP so I can repair my stuff, do I need to level other crafting subs to help my leveling efforts? Is it going to be a PITA to level just those three (3) DoH without other subs leveled?

(6) How important is it to level ALC? Sorry to post here, but the ALC forums aren't very active here at ZAM. I know that ALC can break clusters --> crystals --> shards, and I know that crafter's need shards, but I've heard that you need be a pretty high level ALC to reliably break crystals.

(7) I don't want to level leatherworking either, but it looks like a lot of the crafting gear is leather, and I know that certain gear like canvas stuff requires weaver and leather to make and or repair.

Thanks again for the responses. All I want to do is kill stuff as DoM, but the repair system doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon, so I've got to level up some crafts. That being said, I'd like to grind out these crafting levels as efficiently as possible, and minimize my time spent as a DoH.
#2 Dec 20 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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thejones wrote:
I've been playing since CE release, and up until this point I have somehow completely avoided crafting all together. A few million gil later in NPC repairs (31THM/23CON/15MIN/15BOT/14FSH), I've reluctantly accepted the fact the SE wants me to craft (I know I'm stubborn and should have accepted that truth a while ago).

My primary goal for crafting is to be able to repair my own stuff, and because I'm dual leveling CON and THM, I'm going to need Weaver, Goldsmith, Carpenter. Leveling DoL, I've stockpiled a significant quantity of mats to support my power crafting sessions. I've studied up on some guides, but still have some questions. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond.

Basics


(1) To level crafting quickly and efficiently, should I always spend the gil on guild support?

(2) To level crafting quickly and efficiently, should I focus on leves (across multiple cities) or straight up grinding?

(3) With regards to crafting leves, I know that you should always use ALL of the free mats provided, but I've heard that some leves require you to run to camps to deliver crafted goods. Is traveling to the satellite camps a waste of time for SP returns?

(4) To level crafting quickly and efficiently (i.e. I don't care about HQ's), is control my most important stat in crafting gear? Do I need to worry about crafting gear prior to Rank 10?

Cross-class dependence / sub-jobs

(5) Generally speaking, if I just want to level GLD, WVR, and CRP so I can repair my stuff, do I need to level other crafting subs to help my leveling efforts? Is it going to be a PITA to level just those three (3) DoH without other subs leveled?

(6) How important is it to level ALC? Sorry to post here, but the ALC forums aren't very active here at ZAM. I know that ALC can break clusters --> crystals --> shards, and I know that crafter's need shards, but I've heard that you need be a pretty high level ALC to reliably break crystals.

(7) I don't want to level leatherworking either, but it looks like a lot of the crafting gear is leather, and I know that certain gear like canvas stuff requires weaver and leather to make and or repair.

Thanks again for the responses. All I want to do is kill stuff as DoM, but the repair system doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon, so I've got to level up some crafts. That being said, I'd like to grind out these crafting levels as efficiently as possible, and minimize my time spent as a DoH.


Just my opinion on your questions

1. Guild support last 1 hr now so it cant really hurt
2. Leve's are great at SP for lower lv. You can get from 1-10 in just 1 reset with leve's from all 3 towns
3. Yes there will be lots of running around to deliver goods to camps. At some point you will be getting marks instead of gil from those turn in's
4. IMO just the basic plain starting tool is all thats required from 1-10

A lot of the crafts are inter twined so try to map out what you are looking for gear wise and whats required to repair them is only advice i can give on your last section. Some of my synths for LW require weaver and alc subs... while its not where it should be.. the "Your (xxx crafting sub) rank isnt high enough to complete this synth, you can at times still make the item w/o a problem. Hope it helps ya out some
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#3 Dec 20 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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This are just my opinions based on my experience on crafting but I hope it helps.

Basics:

1) There is no sure answer to how much guild support actually helps crafting. Some swear by it, and yet some claim it doesn't help at all. However one thing for sure is that, if the synth calls for it, it is always better to have it.

2) Personally based on my play style I go by leves as I could always use the extra mats. At low levels you can focus on taking up many leves from 1 craft, but the choices get a lot less at the higher ranks (Due to lack of option of approriate rank leves). Therefore I like to spread out my crafting horizontally.

3) The SP returns on some leves can be tremendous (Depending on the difficulty based on your rank.) I have received up to SP in the 590s. Some camps however, are definitely not worth going to (Broken Water OMG). But if you have intention to take crafting seriously in the future, you'll want to do leves as they are the only way to get guild marks.

4) TBH I crafted nekkid in the low ranks and did not see a lot of failure as long as you stick to rank appropriate recipes. I would say you'd see more difference in results with crafting gear if you attempt higher ranked recipes however.

Cross-class dependence / sub-jobs:

5) You don't need other crafts if you are just mainly going for repair. Some gear require sub crafts, but based on just a grinding perspective, you will unlikely need other subs. The only concern will be that for the crafts you are choosing, BSM is required to self-repair most of your tools.

6) Breaking crystals require maybe about 12 ALC with crafting gear. Depending on how much you intend to grind crafting, you may not really need ALC. Myself, I did level up ALC with intention to break crystals, but due to time constraints I find myself with a lot of shards as I normally have only enough time to log in, do all leves and on a rare occasion, grind a specific craft.

7) Again if you are talking about self repair, some of the belts and boots will require leatherworking. If you, like me don't mind just buying the gear, you will not need LW to make it. Perhaps you can look into clogs (require CRP to repair), or I think there are sashes that do not require LW but Weaver to repair.

I hope I managed to clear up some of your doubts about crafting. Myself, I actually went ahead with every single craft. Its a slow and long journey but it suits my play style and I kinda enjoy it.

*EDIT*
You might want to level up BSM and ALC at least to rank 10 anyways. Almost every crafter I know uses Maker's Muse and Preserve.

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 10:56am by seavida
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#4 Dec 20 2010 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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seavida wrote:

5) You don't need other crafts if you are just mainly going for repair. Some gear require sub crafts, but based on just a grinding perspective, you will unlikely need other subs. The only concern will be that for the crafts you are choosing, BSM is required to self-repair most of your tools.


That's not entirely true. It depends on what exactly he is going to be repairing. With the new update, some things now require whetstones to repair. Whetstones are made by goldsmiths, but the repairs are made by blacksmiths. So if he's looking to repair anything that requires a whetstone, he will probably need goldsmithing to make the stones... and, in a worst case scenario, mining to get the stones.
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#5 Dec 20 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Great responses so far, thank you ^^

Good point about BSM. I'm leveling DoH so I can repair my adventuring equipment, but in order to effectively level the appropriate DoH classes, I'll need BSM to keep my DoH tools repaired.

How deep is this rabbit hole?
#6 Dec 20 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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thejones wrote:
Great responses so far, thank you ^^

Good point about BSM. I'm leveling DoH so I can repair my adventuring equipment, but in order to effectively level the appropriate DoH classes, I'll need BSM to keep my DoH tools repaired.

How deep is this rabbit hole?


As deep as you wanna take it. If your in a LS you can always rely on your fellow ls mates to help ya with repairs but if going at it alone.... it can be very long and tedious
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#7 Dec 20 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
How deep is this rabbit hole?


Unfortunately it is a pretty deep one. When I first started out the game I decided I wanted to play GLA and maybe at most just take up ARM and BSM. (For armour and weapons). I was actually pretty excited first time I made my own Bronze Dagger. Then later, I learnt the GLA also uses some brass weapons, wood macuahuitls (sp?), alchemic daggers, and not to mention other gear like sollarets required LW to make. It was pretty much a spiral downwards. Luckily for me, I actually enjoy crafting so taking up every craft wasn't too big a deal for me.

As Sillyhawk mentioned, it is still advisable to be in a LS so that you can ask your mates to help with the repairs which you can't do.

Quote:
That's not entirely true. It depends on what exactly he is going to be repairing. With the new update, some things now require whetstones to repair. Whetstones are made by goldsmiths, but the repairs are made by blacksmiths. So if he's looking to repair anything that requires a whetstone, he will probably need goldsmithing to make the stones... and, in a worst case scenario, mining to get the stones.


Well he did mention he was already going to take up GLD, and that he is going to be levelling DoL. So my response was taking into consideration what he was already intending to do, unless I still missed something, which then, my apologies. :)
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#8 Dec 20 2010 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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thejones wrote:
Great responses so far, thank you ^^

Good point about BSM. I'm leveling DoH so I can repair my adventuring equipment, but in order to effectively level the appropriate DoH classes, I'll need BSM to keep my DoH tools repaired.

How deep is this rabbit hole?


You, sir, are caught in the same rabbit hole I am and it is incredibly deep. See:

To level CON/THM you also need alchemy to make your staves because growth formula is a compontent of them. Not to mention the glue needed to repair them now.

To repair your alchemist alembic you will require... ARMORER!
Yep, to repair your tools you will need BSM for the most part.
You will need goldsmith and blacksmith to make and repair your needles for clothcraft

To make a long story short, you pretty much have to level every DoH except culinarian... and the culinarian will help you with your fishing... so you might as well level it while you're leveling everything else. =P
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#9 Dec 20 2010 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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thejones wrote:
I've been playing since CE release, and up until this point I have somehow completely avoided crafting all together. A few million gil later in NPC repairs (31THM/23CON/15MIN/15BOT/14FSH), I've reluctantly accepted the fact the SE wants me to craft (I know I'm stubborn and should have accepted that truth a while ago).

My primary goal for crafting is to be able to repair my own stuff, and because I'm dual leveling CON and THM, I'm going to need Weaver, Goldsmith, Carpenter. Leveling DoL, I've stockpiled a significant quantity of mats to support my power crafting sessions. I've studied up on some guides, but still have some questions. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond.

Basics


(1) To level crafting quickly and efficiently, should I always spend the gil on guild support?

(2) To level crafting quickly and efficiently, should I focus on leves (across multiple cities) or straight up grinding?

(3) With regards to crafting leves, I know that you should always use ALL of the free mats provided, but I've heard that some leves require you to run to camps to deliver crafted goods. Is traveling to the satellite camps a waste of time for SP returns?

(4) To level crafting quickly and efficiently (i.e. I don't care about HQ's), is control my most important stat in crafting gear? Do I need to worry about crafting gear prior to Rank 10?

Cross-class dependence / sub-jobs

(5) Generally speaking, if I just want to level GLD, WVR, and CRP so I can repair my stuff, do I need to level other crafting subs to help my leveling efforts? Is it going to be a PITA to level just those three (3) DoH without other subs leveled?

(6) How important is it to level ALC? Sorry to post here, but the ALC forums aren't very active here at ZAM. I know that ALC can break clusters --> crystals --> shards, and I know that crafter's need shards, but I've heard that you need be a pretty high level ALC to reliably break crystals.

(7) I don't want to level leatherworking either, but it looks like a lot of the crafting gear is leather, and I know that certain gear like canvas stuff requires weaver and leather to make and or repair.

Thanks again for the responses. All I want to do is kill stuff as DoM, but the repair system doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon, so I've got to level up some crafts. That being said, I'd like to grind out these crafting levels as efficiently as possible, and minimize my time spent as a DoH.


1) If you are in the appropriate home town for the craft and can get guild/master support, get it. This will allow you unrestricted access in picking what synths and leves to do, as some synths require Guild Support while others may require Common Support. (Example: Cloths and Dyed Cloths.) It's just easier to get the higher one.

2) Both. If you are looking to efficiently grind, see if the leve turn-in destination is convenient for you. Running to Camp Bluefog or Camp Broken Water is NOT convenient, for example, but you may be willing to run to Camp Black Brush and you should be willing to run to an NPC in town.

3) See my answer to 2)

4) Your important stats are Craftsmanship and Magic Craftsmanship. If you do not meet the hidden stat requirements for a recipe, your success rate drops like a rock. Control is only important when it won't impact your success rate. For this reason if you have an item that gives both Craftsmanship and Magic Craftsmanship, I recommend using that item over one that only gives one stat unless you have no choice as no one really knows the stat requirements of each recipe.

5) As previously answered, you need BSM as well for your tools and TAN for recipe access and boot repair.

6) ALC is very important now with the shard conversion recipes for lightning shards. After Hempen you will have very little use for lightning shards, and this lets you get rid of them in a more productive manner. You don't have to be high to Shard convert lightning to earth or wind -- muddy water skill ups should be MORE than enough.

7) Leather is needed if you want to repair your own boots or plan to make Doublets or any other Weaving item that requires leather parts. Some recipes, like Hats and Shirts, require significant ranks in Leather as well.
#10 Dec 20 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Ravashack wrote:

7) Leather is needed if you want to repair your own boots or plan to make Doublets or any other Weaving item that requires leather parts. Some recipes, like Hats and Shirts, require significant ranks in Leather as well.


Just a note, but probably the most important item to him being Con/Thm AND doing alchemy and weaving would be the robes. All of which require fur shoulder pads from leather working. Not only do these have caster stats, but they also give +Craft and +MCraft
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#11 Dec 20 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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I have been ranking up WVR LW and ALC. But tbh i rank them to make my own gear for LNC and PGL. My BF is doing BS GLD and ARM. If you have a team, Like my BF and I do you won't have to rank up all of those jobs. As far as the other DoH's go there are people in my LS's that do what i can't. I know some have done all to 20 in my LS's so yea lol.

But depending on which crafting you decide on and what your looking to do with it will really be the end result as to what your trying to accomplish with it. For just repairs you will end up having to keep ranking it up. The reason i say this is because as you get into higher gear, lets use Velvatine (sp) for example, you will need to be closer to wvr rank 30 to even repair some of the items. Higher for the higher ranked items in that catagory. Not trying to discourage you in any way, just that if your going to rank up just for repairs this could be a bit of a pain.

Now if you rank up that you would want to sell stuff as well, it's my take, I would choose ones that will allow you to make the gear. LW and WVR are very intertwined. Some of the gear will also need parts (like copper buckles, iron spikes and such) the need GLD ARM or BS. ALC for dyes, breaking down crystals, and Glues. Alchemy seems to support all the crafts for the most part. At least thats what i am seeing. I only use it for Dyes and crystals though.

As far as the DoL side goes thats pretty easy lol. BOT for Cooking CRP WVR & ALC, Mining for BS GLD and ARM, Fishing for ALC and Cooking. Mining and BOT i have done and both are pretty easy to rank. BOT is 23 miner is only rank 10, but my BF does mining so yea lol. I haven't done fishing as of yet so i can't really say anything about that one.

Sorry for the spelling and such and also if this doesn't help. Good Luck :).
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#12 Dec 20 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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thejones wrote:
(1) To level crafting quickly and efficiently, should I always spend the gil on guild support?


No. No, no. NO.

No.

Facility support (regardless of which "level" (common/guild/master)) does not function in FFXIV the way it did in FFXI. Certain recipes in FFXIV have recommended facility support. It will tell you as much on the same little window that tells you the shard cost and any recommended training for the recipe. Get in the habit of paying close attention to this with every recipe. If you're getting a message in your chat log just before you start synthesis saying "This recipe requires more advanced facilities" (or something very close to that...they just changed the wording) then that means you don't have the appropriate level of facility support. And not having it applies a penalty to your success rate and an increase to the maximum potential durability loss from a failed action.

That's what facility support does...it removes that penalty. It does not provide you with a bonus, and don't believe anyone who tells you that it does unless they can point you in the direction of a spreadsheet compiling the outcomes of thousands of synths. They can't. They won't. The best they'll be able to tell you is, "it seems to help for me."

No, it seems to cost you gil you don't need to be spending. Doesn't matter how long it lasts now. Doesn't matter how cheap it is compared to how much gil you can earn. It's a waste if the recipe doesn't call for it. Never take the advice of someone who advocates wastefulness "just because."

Quote:
(2) To level crafting quickly and efficiently, should I focus on leves (across multiple cities) or straight up grinding?


Never pass up a tasty leve. Ever. Not only is it "free" SP (you don't have to provide mats or shards), it's free SP with a bonus meaning that if you had done that recipe with your own shards and mats and earned 200 SP, the leve will award you 300. It's delicious. Also, you're going to want guild marks, and the only way to get those is from local leves. There's no getting around it. Don't pass on the leves. There's no good reason not to do them.

Quote:
(3) With regards to crafting leves, I know that you should always use ALL of the free mats provided, but I've heard that some leves require you to run to camps to deliver crafted goods. Is traveling to the satellite camps a waste of time for SP returns?


Ummm...okay. Let's just back up a second here. You're not going to like crafting if your focus is on best best best min-max to the second ultimate returns....just thinking about it makes me want to swear at you. A lot. So just don't do it. Bottom line is that you're going to need guild marks and you're not going to get enough if all you do is convenient nearby leves that you don't have to...just do the leves. Period.

Quote:
(4) To level crafting quickly and efficiently (i.e. I don't care about HQ's), is control my most important stat in crafting gear? Do I need to worry about crafting gear prior to Rank 10?


Don't worry about it. Rank 1-10 is a one hour process now. Get what you get. If you get some crafting gear, use it. Beyond rank 20, make an effort to get it and keep it repaired and relevant to your rank.

Quote:
Cross-class dependence / sub-jobs

(5) Generally speaking, if I just want to level GLD, WVR, and CRP so I can repair my stuff, do I need to level other crafting subs to help my leveling efforts? Is it going to be a PITA to level just those three (3) DoH without other subs leveled?


Again, 1-10 for any crafting class after the November patch is a very fast process. Just do it and get it done.

Quote:
(6) How important is it to level ALC? Sorry to post here, but the ALC forums aren't very active here at ZAM. I know that ALC can break clusters --> crystals --> shards, and I know that crafter's need shards, but I've heard that you need be a pretty high level ALC to reliably break crystals.


I've been breaking crystals -> shards reliably since about rank 14 alchemist. You need to be high rank alchemist to do clusters -> crystals, but that's secondary. Also with the most recent patch, alchemists can break fish into crystals/shards and it's very, very nice. Do what you want to do, but just keep in mind that beyond a certain rank any DoH class is going to call upon you to invest thousands of your own crystals to move from one rank to the next unless you go the slow route and do it all by leves. How you get your crystals/shards is up to you, but there's no quick and easy way to do it.

Quote:
(7) I don't want to level leatherworking either, but it looks like a lot of the crafting gear is leather, and I know that certain gear like canvas stuff requires weaver and leather to make and or repair.


Nobody can advise you on what you will or won't like to do. If I had my druthers I'd have every DoH class to 50 just so I never had to worry about it. Do what you feel is appropriate for your circumstances. Nobody can tell you what that might be for you.


Edited, Dec 20th 2010 10:14am by Aurelius
#13 Dec 20 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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To the OP: I'm in the same boat as you. I've been playing since day 1 of the CE and avoided crafting until very recently. My LS friends always repaired my stuff but now I want to be able to repair my own gear and gain fast physical levels, so I started crafting.
Here's what I've learned so far:
1. Crafting 1 item takes 1 minute and I gain 1,000 physical points. There's no downtime so in an hour you can gain 60K xp.
2. Crafting to rank 10 only takes 1 - 2 hours.
3. Alchemy and Cooking are the cheapest jobs to level up 1-10 and only require 1 fire shard. This is the most cost effective way to gain physical xp but those jobs aren't useful if your goal is to learn to repair.
4. Keep YG's website open and look at the recipes for the most cost efficient craft at your current rank. When I leveled up blacksmith and armorer I kept changing my receipes so I'd always refer to that site. Some people say from rank 5-10 craft this and 10-15 craft that but b/c the sp gained drops with each rank-up I'd try the receipe matching my rank so that I get the most sp.
5. I tried both leves and straight grinding and I didn't like the leves b/c I had to run around different camps and burn anima. I think you get guild marks from rank 20 leves so that's when I'll go back to doing leves.
6. I always get the master guild support b/c it only costs 500 or 1,000 gil and really boosts my success rate. Losing 6 shards in a failed craft cost a lot more than the cost of the guild support.
#14 Dec 20 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Since you are already a fisher you should seriously just use some of the fish that you are pulling up (pretty much everything is junk at R14 anyway) and turn them into shards for SP. Since I get 0 SP at R27 for synths like turning malm kelp into lightning shards and tiger cod into wind shards you can prolly do them at rank 1 - or maybe rank 5. Try it.

You are going to need A LOT of wind shards to rank up carpenter, so you might as well start turning those tiger cod into them.

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#15 Dec 20 2010 at 4:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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<All right!> Thanks ZAM, appreciate the responses. Now I just need to repel down the side of the building without my partners catching me so I can go home and start grinding out DoH jobs.

I didn't realize fish --> shards was a low level synth. I don't want to level cooking, but I do need something useful to do with 5,000 tiger cod and malm kelp.



#16 Dec 20 2010 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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Just some quick advice.

You should definitely start your crafting career by leveling Alchemist to 10 so that you get access to Preserve. Of all the level 10 crafting abilities this is hands down the most useful (in my opinion) as it maintains favorable synth conditions (white orb) for 3-4 rounds.

Your best bet is probably to grind on Distilled Water all the way to 10 Alc.

Distilled Water is made from one Fire Shard + Muddy Water (purchased from NPC for 153 gil).

Best of all, once you hit 10 Alc you should have a few stacks of Distilled Water, which boosts Mag. Craftsmanship by +5 when consumed and will help you while you level other crafts.
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