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How would you fix SP? (was forum=173)Follow

#1 Dec 20 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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SP is bad. No shocker there. But instead of constantly saying it's bad why not come up with a player based fix to the bad SP? How would you fix SP zam?

My idea was:

- Offer a base amount of sp (Currently what we have, everybody gets something)
- Give more sp on a per action basis (Like what we had before just more solid gains)
- Put a limit based on the difficulty. (Blue, Green, Yellow, Red)
- Increase the potential limit when partying. However limit this as well so smaller parties are much more beneficial(5-6) for grind play where alliances are much better for boss/leve(still uncapped sp) content.
- Let that limit be easily capped so we don't have 7 minute battles to hit the cap.
- Remove outliner levels within a party to find the average party level(and base your xp range on this) and degrade the sp cap for lower levels to prevent abuse.

- Skill(Point) Chaining - an action of adding difficulty to the battle. Another enemy entering into the fray will increase the sp bonus. Extra enemies are marked with red claim and offer additional bonus sp. This amount decreases with each kill made (difficulty decrease).

Example: Your fighting 10 mobs with 6 people. They receive a party bonus up to a certain cap. This sp is multiplied by a .05(or .1)x Monster count(claimed amount)- 1. so lets say the current cap is 500 they would receive 500x1.45 or 725 sp for a monster killed. The next monster they kill though will only yield 500x1.40 or 700. This amount decrease till it reaches the base or increases if more enemies enter the fray.

The chain does not have a timer or anything so the bonus ends immediately after the fight is resolved.

Sure there is other stuff I'm likely missing but this would be how I would rather see the sp system.
#2 Dec 20 2010 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
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SP is broken. I agree. But I don't agree on the extent to or even angle of which it's broken, at least from the consensus opinion. Anyways, here's my step-by-step plan on how to remedy the issue:

1. Get rid of fatigue.

...that's it. The whole claim from SE that "the fatigue system was introduced to make the game more accessible to casual players" is "not working" at best, and "farcical" at worst.

SP is only broken because of the diminishing returns. Level/Rank based progression is a time sink by definition... you grind more, you level more. The way the current system works in this regard is not unreasonable, party bonus, aspect, steep curve and all. What SE did was allegedly 'innovative', and I give them all the credit in the world for trying something new. But it's obvious at this point that it's not working. That said, the problem is not the fatigue system itself, necessarily. It's the incredibly steep leveling curve (esp. after R30) in conjunction with fatigue.

The hardcore shalt be hardcore. It should be the #1 corollary of MMO design. There's no stopping it. Hardcore players are the lifeblood of the MMO. Some people are going to play 24-7 with disregard to any 'disincentive' you provide such as fatigue. And we've seen that happen.

The steep leveling curve is in place to keep players playing until the point that significant functionality is added and content is implemented. That's cool, we all get that. Many of us still play the game anyway. Those of us who have earned rank 50 are now leveling their next class. So, why penalize the hardcore - the clientele most likely to be willing to pay to play - by limiting the amount of XP/SP they can earn in a certain time frame? Only those willing to commit 100% to the game are going to receive fatigue.... why limit them needlessly, to the point where it's only discouraging?

The pace at which the hardcore level should be irrelevant to the casual player. Either the casuals find the game fun and entertaining, or they don't. The existence of fatigue only detracts from the experience of the most enthusiastic player.

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 10:49pm by volta1
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#3 Dec 20 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here is a complex system to fix SP, enemy rank, party and levels influence a static SP at end:

Rework SP to go based on Rank vs Enemy Rank and not strength checks. Build a SP rank system from it:

-10 Rank = 0 SP
-9 Rank = 0 Sp
-8 Rank = 0 Sp
-7 Rank = 15 Sp
-6 Rank = 25 Sp
-5 Rank = 50 Sp
-4 Rank = 60 Sp
-3 Rank = 70 Sp
-2 Rank = 80 Sp
-1 Rank = 90 Sp
Even Match = 100 SP
+1 Rank = 125 Sp
+2 Rank = 150 Sp
+3 Rank = 175 SP
+4 Rank = 200 SP
+5 Rank = 225 Sp
+6 Rank = 250 Sp
+7 Rank = 275 Sp
+8 Rank = 300 SP
+9 Rank = 325 Sp
+10 Rank or higher = 350 Sp

SP base will come from highest rank in party. Next add a flat 100 SP for killing said enemy (1 SP for 1% damage done if you wish to call it that). Solo players will now be calculated on that. For most encounters players will get between 150-250 SP for their solo grind as a total.

Party play will receive the party bonus in addition to this static SP calculation.

2 Person Party = 20% SP Bonus
3 Person Party = 20% SP Bonus
4 Person Party = 15% SP Bonus
5 Person Party = 5% SP Bonus
6 Person Party = 0% SP Bonus
7+ Person Party = -5% per additional person added. Can dip into total SP.

Duo on Even Match = 240 SP
Trio on EM = 240 SP
Six on EM = 200 SP

Duo on +4 = 300 SP (Tough and slower)
Six on +4 = 320 SP

Six on +9 = 425 SP per fight but much quicker.

Is it perfect. No. Though it is a decent take on it. Chart it in excel and test it, maybe release it? I'd hope so. Stop the mass killing of lowbie colbyns? I hope, but probably will be 6 man pts on IT coblyns.... edit2: Damage is cut in half... might actually ruin IT++ grinds...

Edit: fixed some values.


Edited, Dec 20th 2010 11:05pm by AceAmallie

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 11:08pm by AceAmallie
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#4 Dec 20 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I have to ask why is it that you think the SP system is broken while what SE intended was to keep the balance between solo and party play?
If bonus SP were given to parties, then what is going to happened to solo players? Aren't their progression will be affected? I don't think it is broken, it is just to balance out between both players. You might asked me why party then? the answer is NMs.

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 11:37pm by Aucis
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#5 Dec 20 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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I would either lower the curve (TNLs), or raise the amount of SP per kill. Ideally, killing a very tough mob in a middle sized group (say 4-7) should give 450-500 SP. Soloing a yellow should be 250-300ish, orange 400+ etc. Ideally, a single level should take around 3-4 hours, maybe getting towards 5-6 as you reach cap. Anything longer than that is simply stalling, you aren't becoming a better player, or learning your class better, just because you're pumping more hours into the game.
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#6 Dec 20 2010 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I like Ace's EXP suggestion a lot but I would like to add some bonus like FFXI did. Chains, EXP scroll/ring...etc. I also think there is another problem right now beside the broken SP. Exp Mobs placement and population. There are just simply not enough mobs for people whether you are soloing or partying. Imagine what happens if there are more players in the future?

I remember when I start playing at rank 1 outside of Ul'Dah when the game first launched. It was so hard to find a Star Mamot or Beetle.
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#7Caia, Posted: Dec 20 2010 at 10:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Delete FFXIV.exe Should solve all your problems with the game.
#8 Dec 20 2010 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I was thinking of a way to implement pre-patch and post-patch. If they gave a guaranteed based SP and get additional SP's gained for using abilities.

For example:
Blue: 40 Skill points (base)+ additional SP for abilities
Green: 80 Skill points (base)+ additional SP for abilities
Yellow: 120 Skill points (base)+ additional SP for abilities
Orange: 160 Skill points (base)+ additional SP for abilities
Red: 200 Skill points (base)+ additional SP for abilities

This would at least give you a basic idea of what you well get minimally.
Just an opinion............
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#9 Dec 20 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Decent
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If grinding mobs becomes the focus of this game to level up, i'm out. Right now it's somewhat borderline, and it keeps me from playing as much as i would like. I like the leve system and behest, but i really hope that SE doesn't make balances that will strongly encourage an XI leveling/grind system.

I would rather SE encourage group play that doesn't involve grinding random mobs... Something more in depth than what the current leve/behest system offers.

The last thing this game needs is to become more like XI.

All these SP threads make the assumption that the best (or only) way to level should be the XI system of grinding the same random mobs for hours. There are a ton of alternatives that don't force this game into an XI clone.
#10 Dec 20 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Default
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To "Fix" SP.

Simply Double SP Gain outside of Levequests.

Problem solved.

I did a R35 party with 6 people we killed nonstop for 8 hours and got 45kSP... Pure Garbage SP Gain

We where even getting 80-144 a kill in Tam Tara...

Its broken compared to before if you consider rank up speed was halved in groups as broken.
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#11 Dec 20 2010 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I would give a 3% skill point bonus for each person in the party.

5 person party = 15% SP bonus

10 person party = 30% SP bonus

and so on.


I would also add Kill chains like in 11. 5 in a row nets 10% more exp per kill if done within 1 minute of the previous kill. This lasts until a monster is killed that takes longer than 1 minute from the last kill.


Keep it simple.
#12 Dec 20 2010 at 11:58 PM Rating: Excellent
Ace's suggestion is the most brilliant solution I have see as of yet. However if they are afraid of all that coding, I'd be happy with an even 50% increase of the amount of SP earned currently. I'm certain they could literally change one digit to the modifier and make it happen, but I'm no coderSmiley: lol


But again, Ace's idea seems to present a fair solution across the board.
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#13 Dec 21 2010 at 12:51 AM Rating: Good
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Hi all,

I'd say the chart was great except I think we have to divide the sp among the number of people in the party before we apply the sp bonus. (which is something close to what we have except the bonus sp for higher leveled monsters scales poorly atm)

I think we must 1st define the problem with sp before we ask for any solution.

:- Why do we even need to sp grind?
:- Is the 'SP' rewards too little for organized play?
:- Should organized play be rewarded significantly more in terms of SP over solo play?
:- Should we reward skilled solo play as much as skilled organized play in terms of SP?
:- Is playing fun?
:- What is fun?

#14 Dec 21 2010 at 12:58 AM Rating: Default
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renmabiao wrote:
:- What is fun?

This looks pretty fun:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=12929011264628766&page=1&howmany=50#msg129290656457947033
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#15 Dec 21 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for the thumbs up on the idea. I didn't go with the check system because checks change based on party strengths and such, which is why Iron Coblyns which are supposedly rank 30ish are yellow at rank 23. Or even blue in party. Working solely on the SP check system may have been the thing that 'broke' the party SP system. It takes high rank monsters and lowers the SP for them in some cases by more then half what someone would get when soloed even if they are the same rank.

While I expect a SP hit... I figured the SP is still based on some figures which were not accounted for when trying to fix the previous SP system. Though the grind has become rather insane, it seems to be slowing down players from reaching 50 in combat classes while restructuring and content building goes on. I hope for one final 'fix' before the system stays the way it is. It is the only conclusion I can come to when SE wanted people to get through the first 20 'tutorial' levels which accounts for a bonus not applied to 30-50. If even this was set, the rising SP per level requirements would gradually slow people down rather then this sudden SP drop.

Edited, Dec 21st 2010 2:05am by AceAmallie
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#16 Dec 21 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Good
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You can't just across the board increase SP by a %. That would just make it so instead of grinding coblyns for SP, you... grind coblyns for a tiny bit more SP. Still boring.

And you can't just increase party SP. If you get 100SP killing a coblyn prepatch and suddenly you get 100 SP + 10/member for killing a coblyn... you're just gonna hunt coblyns with a party instead of solo.

So what I would do is increase the difficulty modifier. If you fight a blue mob (coblyn), you get 50SP. Prepatch, if you fight a green, you get 70SP. I'd make it something like 75. Yellow prepatch- 100. Postpatch? 150. Red prepatch- 120. POstpatch? 150. That sort of thing. That way it encourages you to kill higher rank enemies. While you can solo a red right now, it will go by a LOT faster if you have a healer, another DD with you, etc.

Because the only thing that would change is the amount of time you're grinding, not what you're grinding on. SE should promote the extermination of higher rank monsters in a party, as opposed to farming extremely weak monsters solo / even killing extremely weak monsters in a party. Pre-november patch, raptors could always kill you if you forgot to have shell up / got unlucky with adds. If you were in the appropriate level range (and if the HP fix was introduced), efts could kill you too.
#17 Dec 21 2010 at 1:25 AM Rating: Decent
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If I may ask Ace, although I may be looking at it incorrectly, why do you propose penalizing experience after a certain amount of people are in the party?
#18 Dec 21 2010 at 3:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd give each mob more hp to allow time for debuffs and strategy, add more sp to make up for it, and institute sp chain rewards for quick chaining of mobs and sp bonuses for using regimens. When fighting a party of mobs I would display the hp and stats on each of the mob party members to encourage and enable greater strategy. I'd also reduce the amount of mobs during behest but make them alot tougher, and they would attack the aetheryte rather than us tracking them down.
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#19 Dec 21 2010 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I think Ace is pretty close, though I don't know why he insist on such a complicated system when you could reach similar results by simply increasing the scaling of SP with mob level.

I don't have the exact numbers but right now killing an even match post R20 gives roughly 100 SP. EM+1 is ~105 and EM -1 is ~95. This kind of ~5% scaling is not enough to make high level enemies, that also receive a rank based bonus to both offense and defense (why is this necessary, anyway? high rank mobs already have higher stats, do they not?) and are exponentially more difficult and time consuming to kill, lucrative. How about we double the scaling to 10% per rank? EM+1 is now 110, EM+5 is ~161, EM+10 is ~259 and EM+15 is ~418. This is then further multiplied by a suitable party bonus and finally divided evenly among party members. 10% might not even be enough as long as the rank based damage/defense bonus is in place as anything more than 15 ranks above might become too tough or time consuming to kill, and 418 base may just not cover the ridiculous TNLs in FFXIV quickly enough. Remember that an IT+ in FFXI awarded 600 base exp (before party bonuses) and the TNLs in that game were much lower.

In additon, anti-powerleveling measures need to be adopted (mob rank checked against highest PT member, not each member individually) and a cap on total base SP to prevent abnormalities down the road.

Any system where you get SP based on actions, as suggested by some in this thread, even together with a fixed SP award, leads to disaster. That would simply once again give people the incentive to do stupid things that don't benefit the party.

Some people in the thread mentioned EXP chains. EXP chains are actually not well implemented in FFXI because they're uncapped. A group that can only chain to #5 cannot get even close to a group that can squeeze out the extra few seconds and keep the chain going indefinitely. This is why chains in FFXI should be capped at #5 or #6 at most to prevent the difference between a good party and a great party to grow too wide.



Edited, Dec 21st 2010 5:19am by Omena
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#20 Dec 21 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I honestly think all we need is the party bonus adjusted for non-leve mobs. In other words, and incentive to kill the larger ones. That's it, nothing more.

Edited, Dec 21st 2010 10:24am by Jefro420
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#21 Dec 21 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with volta1.

The fatigue system is doing the exact opposite of what SE intended.

It's not hard to burn into fatigue at all, casual players do it all the time - Especially with leve linking and behest. So a hardcore player hits fatigue - so what? They play all day and night, and level up anyways. Casual player hits fatigue, and its even worse because we don't have all day to grind through it.

Fatigue needs to go for sure. And if SE didn't like that idea:

What if there were no limit to leves? I mean before you just grind mobs over and over, but with the new sp system its like you finish with leves and you're done until the next reset; Once you've linked all ur leves and done all you can, grinding mobs is very monotonous and sleep inducing. I for one don't like to craft - THAT alone makes me fall asleep.

Or, perhaps?

Why does Guardian's Favor recharge like Anima? We can only use it with leves anyways. And to top it all off, with Guardian's Favor - you barely have enough for yourself - let alone to do all your friends leves with. Now add in the chance of game crash, and chance that you only kill two mobs during leve - and your Guardian's Aspect goes QUICK. I think Guardians Favor should just RESET each time leves reset.

These are just thoughts... please don't hate :P
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#22 Dec 21 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Right after I posted I saw jefro420's reply - and I agree with that idea also
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#23 Dec 21 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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We need reward based on work done and party bonus. Kill a red Mob for 72 sp...??? then kill a blue one for about the same. doesnt make sense.
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#24 Dec 21 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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ThePacster wrote:
If I may ask Ace, although I may be looking at it incorrectly, why do you propose penalizing experience after a certain amount of people are in the party?


The EXP penalty for large parties is a modifier to prevent 15 man parties on low enemies. If you can 15 man a weak enemy then their is no incentive for a party to challenge a harder enemy. This provides much higher incentive where the enemy is of appropriate strength to make it worth challenging those harder enemies.

If you add 1 person to the party you get that much easier of kill, but to ensure you don't kill weak enemies the penalty which is tacked onto the end makes it increasingly slow eventually making the party SP lower then Solo unless you are properly killing mobs 6-7 levels above you when you have 6 or more people in the party.

Essentially you get +25 more SP for each level above your own. For solo that is a good chunk. For 2 people and its +2 you get +50 + 20% more, mostly to account for level differences of the common set up. Same goes through 3 and 4 man groups. After 5 you should be able to have a healer, a tank, several DDs and whatever build, able to challenge much harder targets. Incentive for this becomes not the party bonus, but the higher SP accumulation from fighting an enemy that much tougher.

Solo becomes Decent SP
Duo/Trio becomes Good SP
6 man parties become Excellent SP with option for 7-15 based on enemy toughness, but do to scaling 6-8 should be maximum before diminishing returns and enemy stats inversely effect SP gains, but the option IS there for those die hard party 15 man party runners for Good SP similar to Duo/Trio, but again balanced by the safety of the situation.
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#25 Dec 21 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Seventhblood wrote:
We need reward based on work done and party bonus. Kill a red Mob for 72 sp...??? then kill a blue one for about the same. doesnt make sense.

That's the real issue here, we need the party bonus back. We have one for leves in the form of leve linking, but there is no bonus for non-leve parties. Either that or the bonus is simply broken outside of leves.
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#26 Dec 21 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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I am secretly hoping they ninja fix sp with todays update.
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#27 Dec 21 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Seventhblood wrote:
I am secretly hoping they ninja fix sp with todays update.

That would be awesome, but I have a feeling it won't happen simply based on the fact that only one change was announced yesterday. I'm thinking if we get an adjustment it won't come until the first major update of 2011. Why do I say that? This time of year people take a lot of vacation. So what that means for dev work is that unless it's been in the works for quite a while it won't be ready for release. I don't feel like the new SP system has been in place long enough for SE to have done all the dev work and internal testing for any significant adjustment.

a bit OT and on the technical side:

Clearly SE does not develop software in an agile environment which would allow for such quick reactions to it's customers. (Typically, agile development allows for two to three week turn around time, whereas other methodologies constitute dev cycles of several months or more.)


Edited, Dec 21st 2010 11:04am by Jefro420
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#28 Dec 21 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
Seventhblood wrote:
We need reward based on work done and party bonus. Kill a red Mob for 72 sp...??? then kill a blue one for about the same. doesnt make sense.

That's the real issue here, we need the party bonus back. We have one for leves in the form of leve linking, but there is no bonus for non-leve parties. Either that or the bonus is simply broken outside of leves.

There is a party bonus. It's just that high level mobs give barely any SP over low level ones, so when you team up to kill something strong it feels like you aren't being rewarded properly.

Edited, Dec 21st 2010 11:09am by Omena
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#29 Dec 21 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Pretty simple to fix imo-- scale SP exponentially to monster level/difficulty. i.e., make stronger monsters give a ton more SP. i.e., if it takes an hour to gain 3000 on weaklings that die in a minute, make it so that players can team up against mobs that take 10 minutes each to kill give 6000/hour.

And generally require less SP between levels.

Problem solved.
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#30 Dec 21 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Some people in the thread mentioned EXP chains. EXP chains are actually not well implemented in FFXI because they're uncapped. A group that can only chain to #5 cannot get even close to a group that can squeeze out the extra few seconds and keep the chain going indefinitely. This is why chains in FFXI should be capped at #5 or #6 at most to prevent the difference between a good party and a great party to grow too wide.


I definitely have quite the opposite opinion on this. FFXI chains were done very very well. While the implementation of abyssea made this a null point now, previously, fast fights and continuous chains were well accepted as a good party formation. Chain xp bonus capped out at a certain point so there was no greater bonus after chain 5.

FFXIV took a huge step backwards in the form of sp gains by removing chain rewards.

Quote:
There is a party bonus. It's just that high level mobs give barely any SP over low level ones, so when you team up to kill something strong it feels like you aren't being rewarded properly.


This is still a huge issue. There is no 'feeling' that you aren't being rewarded you simply just are not being rewarded properly. The party bonus is *so* poorly implemented that, to be honest, your about as equally well with it as you are without it.

Edited, Dec 21st 2010 12:04pm by MippsCat
#31 Dec 21 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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I feel they really need to go back to the abacus on this one. There are a few calculations that need to be applied to hope for a good SP layout.

1) Party Level = Highest rank + (next highest as a % of HR)Additon continued till all members are accounted for.

IE. Party of 5 people rank 21, 21, 20, 19, 18. Would add up as 21+(21/21=1)+(20/21=0.95)+(19/21=0.90)+(18/21=0.86) for a total of a Rank 24.71

2) Mob SP = I think Ace did a good job so I wont touch this. The leveling would be the Party level minus the Mob level to figure where on the SP chart the cap is.

Now as you might have noticed the Party lvl isnt a whole number. Which means the remainders are added as a type of variable so SP isnt always whole numbers.

3) XP should be based on its own calculation. Use the same chart as SP is but base it on an individuals level vs that of the mob. This would be done independently as Physical level gain doesnt do AS much for you as SP gain does.

4) With regards to the Fatigue system. If a player hits Fatigue they will start to get Rank marks at the rate of 1 point per 100 SP normally gained. This way at least then Fatigue has a point.

This is just my take on it really.

#32 Dec 22 2010 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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MippsCat wrote:

I definitely have quite the opposite opinion on this. FFXI chains were done very very well. While the implementation of abyssea made this a null point now, previously, fast fights and continuous chains were well accepted as a good party formation. Chain xp bonus capped out at a certain point so there was no greater bonus after chain 5.

As I said, the gap between a good party and a great party grew too wide. A good party that chains to 5 and then resets the cycle would generally make less than half than one that could keep chaining indefinitely. I know the bonus doesn't increase past chain 5 but getting maximum bonus every kill instead of every 5th kill makes a huge difference. It's just unnecessary to have such a gap.


Quote:

This is still a huge issue. There is no 'feeling' that you aren't being rewarded you simply just are not being rewarded properly. The party bonus is *so* poorly implemented that, to be honest, your about as equally well with it as you are without it.

There is nothing wrong with the party bonus. The problem, once again, lies with how SP gains scale with mob levels. Parties give enough SP, high level mobs do not. If it was possible to hunt low level coblyns in a party and not run out of mobs, it would be like doing a non-stop behest in terms of SP.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 8:37am by Omena
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#33 Dec 22 2010 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
As I said, the gap between a good party and a great party grew too wide. A good party that chains to 5 and then resets the cycle would generally make less than half than one that could keep chaining indefinitely. I know the bonus doesn't increase past chain 5 but getting maximum bonus every kill instead of every 5th kill makes a huge difference. It's just unnecessary to have such a gap.


I see quite a different view. Your gap is actually pretty irrelevant. Nobody is being punished for not chaining past 5. Your party is moving at their own pace and not all parties should have to move at the same pace. It's actually no different from now. There are groups that are rushing to 50 and are making twice as much sp than you are. It is, however, not relevant to you since your not in their group and you are also moving at your own pace to 50. If they get there faster by receiving constant chain bonuses how does this affect your gameplay?

On another note:

You unfortunately won't have an epiphany on your job after your 6th hour of grinding so getting to the next level doesn't need to be a chore or a full time job. Chains keep the incentive up so you feel a reason to continue(preferably faster) and just get the level done.
#34 Dec 22 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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Omena wrote:

There is nothing wrong with the party bonus. The problem, once again, lies with how SP gains scale with mob levels. Parties give enough SP, high level mobs do not. If it was possible to hunt low level coblyns in a party and not run out of mobs, it would be like doing a non-stop behest in terms of SP.


That's essentially what I was trying to get at, but in fact by adding a pt member to a grinding party, I have gotten less SP than before adding that pt member even when within the +-5 range. To me that says the party bonus is not working correctly. It does indeed need an adjustment, but it may be two-fold; an adjustment to the party bonus and and adjustment to the amount of SP based on mob HP.
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#35 Dec 23 2010 at 6:27 AM Rating: Decent
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MippsCat wrote:

I see quite a different view. Your gap is actually pretty irrelevant. Nobody is being punished for not chaining past 5. Your party is moving at their own pace and not all parties should have to move at the same pace. It's actually no different from now. There are groups that are rushing to 50 and are making twice as much sp than you are. It is, however, not relevant to you since your not in their group and you are also moving at your own pace to 50. If they get there faster by receiving constant chain bonuses how does this affect your gameplay?

I couldn't care less what another group is gaining. My problem is this scenario: You replace your R32 LNC with a R30 LNC, your average time/kill increases by 2 seconds. You can no longer chain past #6 and your exp was just more than halved by a minor alteration to your party composition.

In FFXI the exp rate/party quality curve is not linear, it has a gap in it.
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#36 Dec 23 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I couldn't care less what another group is gaining.

Quote:
not relevant to you since your not in their group and you are also moving at your own pace to 50.


Already touched on that. Also like I said the gap is non-existant. If a group had an issue with it they would do one of two things. Pick up another person to make sure they stay under a chain timer (more likely case) or replace the person to someone they need in their range to get the chain timer under. The gap that your coming up with is not there.

My idea was more about adding artificial difficulty via multiple mobs and receiving bonus for those extra mobs, which decreases as monsters are killed. This of course is on the assumption that they were going to give us many vs many battles instead of many vs one. If they did however implement uncapped chain killing though I couldn't be against the idea, not sure many of my friends would be either lol.
#37 Dec 23 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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MippsCat wrote:

Also like I said the gap is non-existant. If a group had an issue with it they would do one of two things. Pick up another person to make sure they stay under a chain timer (more likely case) or replace the person to someone they need in their range to get the chain timer under. The gap that your coming up with is not there.

If in your opinion losing over 50% SP/h because of a miniscule efficiency drop (one member replaced with another two ranks below) doesn't constitute a gap in the curve, I'm not sure what to tell you. Do you want me to draw the graph for you?
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