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Should've Could've Would've but Didn'tFollow

#1 Dec 22 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Default
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For a long time now in every other post about improving the game I see one of those first three words used in some way like (and i wont quote any1 I am not flaming there is a point)

"SE should've fixed the combat system AI and the controls before release."

"SE could've done much better with the release of the game and listening to player input during Beta."

"I would've kept playing the game but SE ruined it."

etc.

I truly understand these feeling but looking forward maybe we should accept they didn't. They simply didn't do what was right. So where can we go from here? I am not sure but i have some ides and you probably have bunches too so lets toss em out to the people and maybe we get a clear idea of what we as the players can do. To make it fun try it like this:

"we should get on SE's behind until we get them to fix SP and combat."
"We could try to let SE know we seriously are not happy but we like the new changes."
"I would love it if we knew what updates are coming first next year and try to communicate if they look good to those who left."

I do want to use did to end this post but nothing comes to mind.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 1:10am by mainvein
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#2 Dec 22 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good
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Stop beating the dead horse. SE is well aware of it, but a good fix and change is probably on the way. Afterall, if they caved to the 'AH NOW' threads and the 'scrap wards' this combined feature would never exist and I think the evolution of XIV is well worth the three months to change this much. Not even a month ago we were freaking out about SWG game ruination, while party SP being low was an unexpected outcome it never left the table I think. It was more then two steps forward and one step back. To say we are baby steps from release is a lie.

Look to the future, not the past now. We have content and more fixes coming. Crying about how it wasn't fixed on YOUR time table is a moot issue because the game STILL costs you nothing. Consider it Zeta... the free and non-resetting beta prior to relaunch and paid subscription.
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#3 Dec 22 2010 at 12:59 AM Rating: Good
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AceAmallie wrote:
Stop beating the dead horse. SE is well aware of it, but a good fix and change is probably on the way. Afterall, if they caved to the 'AH NOW' threads and the 'scrap wards' this combined feature would never exist and I think the evolution of XIV is well worth the three months to change this much. Not even a month ago we were freaking out about SWG game ruination, while party SP being low was an unexpected outcome it never left the table I think. It was more then two steps forward and one step back. To say we are baby steps from release is a lie.

Look to the future, not the past now. We have content and more fixes coming. Crying about how it wasn't fixed on YOUR time table is a moot issue because the game STILL costs you nothing. Consider it Zeta... the free and non-resetting beta prior to relaunch and paid subscription.


Zeta. Good terminology. Oh how I try to look at it that way. Some days I can, most actually. But then there are those WTF were they thinking moments or why in gods name am I still playing this crap moments.

I am appreciative of the people who play the game, and really even more so of the ones who love it as is. As much as myself and the other who have been vocal in our distaste for certain aspects have become a singular voice that has created change, those who play the game and comment on what is GOOD make sure that what does work doesn't get lost in the process.

I was told this game would be epic, promised really. And considering the pedigree of the company I don't feel I was wrong to EXPECT it to be. Was it? Not by a long shot. Did they tell me 'It is what it is, give me your monthly fee or GTFO?' ? Nope, its pretty much right in the middle.

In response to the OP: I have a did for you. They DID scrap a very large portion of the dev team on the management and design side. This means 2 things. 1. The god awful product we were given at launch will see tremendous change over the coming months and 2. As much as I would like to have had my perfect gaming experience at launch, or at least withing the first month, it will take the new team a little time to get their hands and heads around what they have to work with. What can and can't be fixed. What will be changed. What will be scrapped.

Today I am generous, today I give them a little time to improve (even as unhappy with the ward search as I am). TOmorrow? Who knows what tomorrow will bring

-Teeg

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 2:01am by Teegotaru
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#4 Dec 22 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Default
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AceAmallie wrote:
Stop beating the dead horse. SE is well aware of it, but a good fix and change is probably on the way. Afterall, if they caved to the 'AH NOW' threads and the 'scrap wards' this combined feature would never exist and I think the evolution of XIV is well worth the three months to change this much. Not even a month ago we were freaking out about SWG game ruination, while party SP being low was an unexpected outcome it never left the table I think. It was more then two steps forward and one step back. To say we are baby steps from release is a lie.

Look to the future, not the past now. We have content and more fixes coming. Crying about how it wasn't fixed on YOUR time table is a moot issue because the game STILL costs you nothing. Consider it Zeta... the free and non-resetting beta prior to relaunch and paid subscription.


To play Devil's advocate, if they had just caved into the AH system instead of trying to play around with the wards and such they might have given us a working economy and THEN had time to fix other issues people had. Instead we now have searchable wards which I will say are a nice, big improvement, but they are still not finished with their plans for them. They are still devoting a lot of manpower to this and the game needs that man power elsewhere.
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#5 Dec 22 2010 at 1:42 AM Rating: Decent
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AceAmallie wrote:
Stop beating the dead horse. SE is well aware of it, but a good fix and change is probably on the way. Afterall, if they caved to the 'AH NOW' threads and the 'scrap wards' this combined feature would never exist and I think the evolution of XIV is well worth the three months to change this much. Not even a month ago we were freaking out about SWG game ruination, while party SP being low was an unexpected outcome it never left the table I think. It was more then two steps forward and one step back. To say we are baby steps from release is a lie.

Look to the future, not the past now. We have content and more fixes coming. Crying about how it wasn't fixed on YOUR time table is a moot issue because the game STILL costs you nothing. Consider it Zeta... the free and non-resetting beta prior to relaunch and paid subscription.

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa hold up a sec. Almost none of what you said I said. And i am pretty sure you didnt read my initial post I said all the should've would've could've are pointless as they didnt and that we should just accept it. I set no time table all I said was just a suggestion thread of things we can do with some ok examples. I said nothing about any of what you responded about.

However, (Since your White Knighting like a mad man) Let me set you straight. WE DID BUY THE BOX! WE DID SPEND MONEY! And considering what it cost for GW as title I can at least have some level of expectation that can't be countered with the "because the game STILL costs you nothing." Its simply not OK. The fact that our screams from back in beta got them to realize that not having an AH was a bad idea means that likely it will take more screams to get them to fix the prevalent issues first. I do not have a time line but this game does. MMOs generally do not survive a bad release and one of the few ways we have to help the game is word of mouth (read the OP next time) if we had a list of changes (and saw them implemented) the faster we know and pass it off to others who left. They tend to ask us as we are in game we are the ones who know but if we feed them a line of BS because your ok with where its at you just burn them twice. Not only did SE lie but now the community does too. Its far from beating a dead horse this game is alive but not well. If we didn't care we wouldn't post. We wouldn't complain and voice opinions. The fact is we care more than anyone else because we not only voice for those who are playing but for those who aren't. We don't get complacent when we see the changes we wanted since our goal is to see the game thrive. Fixing search and adding holiday events does not mean the game is going well. I didn't want an angry post but its post like your's that remind me why people don't even want to try. With a new dev team people forget to account for the fact that it may delay things just that much more. Now SE did break sp and in such a way that there are some who would just prefer the old system back. Thats more like 1 step forward 2 steps back.

as for my op suggestion

"You should read the OP next time!"
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#6 Dec 22 2010 at 2:43 AM Rating: Decent
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mainvein wrote:
[ WE DID BUY THE BOX! WE DID SPEND MONEY!

This a millon ******* times this! I payed $80 for this game. Every time I hear people talk about how its free I want to stabb them in face! I have yet to get my $80 out of this game and no mater how long they make it free I will feel riped off untill I feel they have fixed this game or I take my $80 in the blood of SE bottom line! And for my math my $80 ends up being a good year of *********
#7 Dec 22 2010 at 3:02 AM Rating: Good
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We should move forward with these forums. Listening to person A argue with person B about the game is getting very redundant. Person A is never going to convince person B with their cites and examples of 'why' the game is either good or bad.

Plus, I don't think many people care that others don't agree with them anymore.

Just read OP, and move on.
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#8 Dec 22 2010 at 3:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Sethern79 wrote:
[quote=mainvein][ WE DID BUY THE BOX! WE DID SPEND MONEY!

This a millon @#%^ing times this! I payed $80 for this game. Every time I hear people talk about how its free I want to stabb them in face! I have yet to get my $80 out of this game and no mater how long they make it free I will feel riped off untill I feel they have fixed this game or I take my $80 in the blood of SE bottom line! And for my math my $80 ends up being a good year of *****************


if 80$ is that big of a deal to you u shouldnt be throwing money away on ANY game. i dont know how many console games iv purchased and realized in the first hour that i hated it, u kno what tho? its a game and nothing more. if it sux then o well, they cant all be winners. to cry and moan that much about 60-80$ is ridiculous. if your still logging in today you got ur 80$ worth. 3 months is FARRRRRR longer than i play most console games, most are beaten and tossed aside within the first couple weeks.

and to the OP. after reading your post multiple times (since you seem to think nobody is) i find it tiresome to even bother with the would've could've should've at this point and hope that we can all look forward to the can and will to come. i hate to hear the "this game has only been out xx ammount of days give it time" argument but it really does apply. we have insanely high expectations for xiv due to its pedigree and the other mmo's we have all been enjoying for the last few years, and this has possibly skewed our perception of what the game should be at this point.

with every patch i see positive changes that bring the light at the end of the tunnel closer, and tho the game still lacks many things i continue playing because i can see what the game will be like. im not saying the game hasnt seen its fair share of disaster already, but its reasonable to expect the clean up afterwards will bring the whole situation in a positive direction.



p.s. dont confuse changed with broke. the sp system has changed, its not broken. most of us at this point have experimented around and found the best means for leveling, i suggest the people still crying its broken do the same.


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#9 Dec 22 2010 at 3:49 AM Rating: Decent
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BadJoRed wrote:
We should move forward with these forums. Listening to person A argue with person B about the game is getting very redundant. Person A is never going to convince person B with their cites and examples of 'why' the game is either good or bad.

Plus, I don't think many people care that others don't agree with them anymore.

Just read OP, and move on.


And this is how I know people dont read I hate quoting myself but fine. "I truly understand these feeling but looking forward maybe we should accept they didn't." Accept as in move on my initial post was about getting them to make future changes and not focusing on the past but for some reason some seem to read it wrong.

As far as the above poster DROPPING LEVES TO GET THE BEST SP OUT OF THEM CONTINUALLY DOING THE SAME ONES FOR THE BEST SP MEANS ITS BROKEN. GET ****** ABOUT IT AND LIKELY THEY WILL MOVE THEIR BEHINDS AND FIX IT. AND WHATS THE FIRST STEP? GETTING THEM TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT! THE FACT THAT MANY OF YOU HAVE THIS "WELL ITS OK THE WAY IT IS ATTITUDE." IS PART OF WHY WE ARE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

/sigh I hate talking on this but we are customers and fans as a customer I have aright to be ****** about something I paid for free months or not. As fan I have a responsiblity to voice concerns I know for fact hurts the game. Just becuase your ok with it does not mean everybody else is and the worse thing is you know for a fact if they make sp better youll just be as happy as everyone else. Its a sad day where you have ot explain to people that bought a product that it is ok to say "You still havent done enough." its ok to say "You need ot fix this first." I have ot ask do you really belive that the people you need as in "You need these people because they simply dont have enough people playing even when they start charging for the game to survive." are really going to hit rank 20 and get a party and start failing the same leves every 36 hours to grind?

This isn't some past issue they fixed its current and BS that half you haven't learned defending didn't help sh*t but barking about AH, UI, REPAIRS, SHARDS, TELEPORT COST, STORAGE, & EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOT FIXED WAS BECAUSE WE VOICED OURSELVES. IF IT WAS UP TO THOSE OF YOU THAT REFUSED OT SAY ANYTHING THAT MIGHT TARNISH THE NAME OF SE WE WOULD BE WHERE WE WERE 3MONTHS AGO RIGHT NOW.
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#10 Dec 22 2010 at 4:01 AM Rating: Good
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mainvein wrote:
Just becuase your ok with it does not mean everybody else is and the worse thing is you know for a fact if they make sp better youll just be as happy as everyone else. [/b]


it works both ways bud. just because your angry about it doesnt mean everybody else is too. sure, if they increase the sp gained you will have a hard time finding people complaining about it. that doesnt mean the current system is unacceptable. if we never had access to the previous sp system and the current system is all we had ever experienced in the game there would be far fewer people complaining about something being broken. we got spoiled to mass zerging crabs and efts for 500sp a pop and now that things have changed theres gona be whiners wanting the old ways back.

the only point im making is that if you take off your madpants and look at the current system without bursting a capillary you find that its acceptable in its own right.

can it be better? sure. is it broken? far from it.


Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 4:03am by Elamille
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This one time at FFXIV camp I tried to get a 3 person party going, but just ended up as a Disciple of the Hand.


#11 Dec 22 2010 at 4:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Elamille wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
[quote=mainvein][ WE DID BUY THE BOX! WE DID SPEND MONEY!

This a millon @#%^ing times this! I payed $80 for this game. Every time I hear people talk about how its free I want to stabb them in face! I have yet to get my $80 out of this game and no mater how long they make it free I will feel riped off untill I feel they have fixed this game or I take my $80 in the blood of SE bottom line! And for my math my $80 ends up being a good year of *****************


if 80$ is that big of a deal to you u shouldnt be throwing money away on ANY game. i dont know how many console games iv purchased and realized in the first hour that i hated it, u kno what tho? its a game and nothing more. if it sux then o well, they cant all be winners. to cry and moan that much about 60-80$ is ridiculous. if your still logging in today you got ur 80$ worth. 3 months is FARRRRRR longer than i play most console games, most are beaten and tossed aside within the first couple weeks.



This is not a console game. this is an MMO. There is an expected value to games like this that are higher than that of a console game. I'm sorry that I value my $ more than you do. I don't care if the game cost $1. I worked for that $1 and I want what I payed for. Momy and dady don't buy my **** anymore I have to work for it. and as such I expect to get what I payed for. It be no difrent if I went into a restrunt orderd a stake and got a hamburger. I would **** sure make sure I got my stake. The way some of you talk I bet you would just shut up and eat the hamburger.
#12 Dec 22 2010 at 4:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Sethern79 wrote:
if I went into a restrunt orderd a stake and got a hamburger. I would **** sure make sure I got my stake. The way some of you talk I bet you would just shut up and eat the hamburger.


ever heard of a hamburger steak?

lol im joking of course but yea. the point im making is that if you go to a resturaunt and get a poorly prepared steak are u gona cry and complain about it for 3+ months, logging onto message boards creating post after post after post about how terrible it was even tho you know the resturaunt recently implimented new practices to improve the quality of said steak? will you tirelessly toil for the closing of that resturaunt, hoping that is goes bankrupt and all of its employees who participated in the poor preperation of your steak die in a horrible fire?

no, you wouldnt. or i hope you would be reasonable enough not to. most people would voice their concern and accept that you cannot become the NEXT IRON CHEF overnight. seeing that this resturaunt is trying to do whats right and become better u might come back in a few months and give it another shot. or you might be like me and stop by on a semi-regular basis because you enjoy seeing a work in progress and can see what they "might" become.

mom and dad dont buy my games anymore either but i realize that console game or not, if you are really that upset about spending 60$ on a game u dont like u should save ur cash for something less frivolous.
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Gadhelyn wrote:
This one time at FFXIV camp I tried to get a 3 person party going, but just ended up as a Disciple of the Hand.


#13 Dec 22 2010 at 4:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Elamille wrote:
mainvein wrote:
Just becuase your ok with it does not mean everybody else is and the worse thing is you know for a fact if they make sp better youll just be as happy as everyone else. [/b]


it works both ways bud. just because your angry about it doesnt mean everybody else is too. sure, if they increase the sp gained you will have a hard time finding people complaining about it. that doesnt mean the current system is unacceptable. if we never had access to the previous sp system and the current system is all we had ever experienced in the game there would be far fewer people complaining about something being broken. we got spoiled to mass zerging crabs and efts for 500sp a pop and now that things have changed theres gona be whiners wanting the old ways back.

the only point im making is that if you take off your madpants and look at the current system without bursting a capillary you find that its acceptable in its own right.

can it be better? sure. is it broken? far from it.


Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 4:03am by Elamille

So your literally saying that the sp system as it is would be acceptable for most gamers? You assume Im mad Im just ****** that players such as yourself see things this way "If I am ok everybody should be." though the majority of players playing the game and not playing the game aren't. Its not a console game you alone wont make bank! I am ****** for those who quit over the sp system after sticking around through the BS they faced the months before. Like I said players such as yourself need to sit down and consider what your arguing which is not improving the game? Get off the BS zerging crabs wasn't great but it made sense. Dropping leves to keep them and never getting rewards does not. to most players it seems dumb to take a quest and not even get the reward for it and being punished for fighting hard mobs in a party? If you gave me a plausible explanation why this is better I could understand but at this point your just saying "I don't agree." Use your common sense and explain to me why its alright.
For some odd reason I can point out why it broken but you cant point out how its not hmmm.

Read the whole post read it twice if you cant do it please don't respond.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 5:19am by mainvein

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 5:21am by mainvein
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#14 Dec 22 2010 at 4:26 AM Rating: Good
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To OP:

If people are reallu concerned about the state of the game:

We Should either contact SE directly or use the Feedback Forum and stop whining in multiple thread present on General Discussion.

To Setehrn99

Exactly because this is not a console game but a MMO we as players should expect spending a lot more money than what is spent on the box set, because we dont have to at the moment we should appreciate the time SE is providing us to play for free.
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#15 Dec 22 2010 at 4:27 AM Rating: Decent
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mainvein wrote:

For some odd reason I can point out why it broken but you cant point out how its not hmmm.


i cant point out why its not broken for the same reason i cant point out why my tv isnt broken. it turns on, i can see pictures on it, theres sound, it changes channels, its not broken.

i log onto ff, i kill things solo and get sp. i invite a person to my party and we kill something a little tougher and get better sp. if i do this enough times i get a rank up. sp is working fine.

for someone who keeps saying people need to re-read your posts 10 times maybe u should consider conveying your message a little more clearly, and with a little less biased hatred. the 1 point you keep bringing up to support your "broken sp" is abandoning a leve so you can get it next reset. ya kno what? thats not a broken sp system. thats a broken leve system. they are two different things.

most people who complain about how sp is broken say there is 0 benefit to being in a party, and this is where i have a problem. if i kill blues by myself and get 60sp, i can duo mobs that would have been green when i was solo (but are now blue since im in a party) for 100 sp. its easy as that. the vast majority of "broken sp" arguments stem from partying, and partying isnt broken. can it be improved? sure it can. make the reward for killing really tough monsters higher, everyone wants that. but to say there is no reason to join a party at all and that you can get better sp soloing is just dumb and untrue. if thats the case these people need to get out there and experiment a little, they'll find out whats going on.
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Gadhelyn wrote:
This one time at FFXIV camp I tried to get a 3 person party going, but just ended up as a Disciple of the Hand.


#16 Dec 22 2010 at 5:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Elamille wrote:
mainvein wrote:

For some odd reason I can point out why it broken but you cant point out how its not hmmm.


i cant point out why its not broken for the same reason i cant point out why my tv isnt broken. it turns on, i can see pictures on it, theres sound, it changes channels, its not broken.

i log onto ff, i kill things solo and get sp. i invite a person to my party and we kill something a little tougher and get better sp. if i do this enough times i get a rank up. sp is working fine.

for someone who keeps saying people need to re-read your posts 10 times maybe u should consider conveying your message a little more clearly, and with a little less biased hatred. the 1 point you keep bringing up to support your "broken sp" is abandoning a leve so you can get it next reset. ya kno what? thats not a broken sp system. thats a broken leve system. they are two different things.

most people who complain about how sp is broken say there is 0 benefit to being in a party, and this is where i have a problem. if i kill blues by myself and get 60sp, i can duo mobs that would have been green when i was solo (but are now blue since im in a party) for 100 sp. its easy as that. the vast majority of "broken sp" arguments stem from partying, and partying isnt broken. can it be improved? sure it can. make the reward for killing really tough monsters higher, everyone wants that. but to say there is no reason to join a party at all and that you can get better sp soloing is just dumb and untrue. if thats the case these people need to get out there and experiment a little, they'll find out whats going on.

I understand what your saying but considering we do leves generally for the sp its a case of antics with semantics. However since you did state your case some what clearly I will attempt to do the same. Now i see you have one battle class past 20 so unless your talking about your sp on Lancer it simply wont apply. Past 20 sp drops outside of a duo group meaning you start seeing diminishing returns to sp once you have a party of 3 or more ( I never said there was no benefit to partying just to clarify). While duoing is still fine attempting for a party of more than 2 is generally inefficient unless you are leve linking and/or doing behest. For those who do not enjoy leves or are on cool down for the (36 hours remember) they face few alternatives than soloing or duoing. Further more the most efficient sp come from some very specific leves which not only need to be abandoned before completion for the most efficient grind some of those leves themselves are bugged with drop rates so they continually spawn mobs. For those who want to do what may come rather naturally and group grind mobs that are more challenging and rewarding to the players skills they have relatively no options to sp and get the experience at the same time.

Once again you example of the tv is antics with semantics. Your taking "Broken" too literally. It was said the UI was broken when the game first dropped yet many said it was fine and many of us adjusted and played with gaming controllers to adapt and while that was fine for some for the masses it was too much and they quit. At the time I felt they should just adjust but then I realized they are paying customers too their request was not unreasonable and further more only served to improve the game. I also came to realize my one sub will not sustain the game if they seek improvements I as an active player should advocate for them as this game can not survive on the fe of us less and the fewer who will be left once they start charging. Now once I saw player leave over the Sp issue I realized it was pointless to ignore it. While you may feel its fine the majority simply does not. Se themselves may feel its fine but they felt the UI Bazaar system, repair, teleport, crystals, etc etc were fine also. It took a lot of yelling together them to realize they were wrong. Players such as yourself sat idly by or defending the game while the rest of us advocated for change. When the changes came you rejoiced and said all was well but clearly misunderstood that it wasn't. So when we mentioned "sp is broken" you started defending the game again. And when we get sp fixed you will rejoice once again and the pattern continues.

Like I said earlier on you all tend to be complacent and forget your customers also. Even if you say its fine the way it is your sub alone will not sustain the game. When you can explain to me how it will survive as it is this "conversation" will be over. Don't just skip the points about other player not one of your post has even addressed this. Like many players who are adamantly defending the games you miss the simple things like there isn't enough money to sustain the game.

And another point money is money don't discount the cost because you can some of us worked hard for that money & improvements to our PCs. It may not mean much to you but to others it was a price felt in the pocket. Understanding that is not only part of understanding their position but its part of life learn the value of a dollar until you have done that don't give people sh*t about voicing a complaint over the cash spent.

I read your whole post do the same.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 6:02am by mainvein
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#17 Dec 22 2010 at 5:28 AM Rating: Decent
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mainvein wrote:

I understand what your saying but considering we do leves generally for the sp its a case of antics with semantics. However since you did state your case some what clearly I will attempt to do the same. Now i see you have one battle class past 20 so unless your talking about your sp on Lancer it simply wont apply.

your lnc 25, im lnc 24. its fair to say we have a relatively equal knowledge of the system so lets work under that assumption.

mainvein wrote:
the most efficient sp come from some very specific leves which not only need to be abandoned before completion for the most efficient grind some of those leves themselves are bugged with drop rates so they continually spawn mobs. For those who want to do what may come rather naturally and group grind mobs that are more challenging and rewarding to the players skills they have relatively no options to sp and get the experience at the same time.

while this may be true to some extent this still doesnt show anything being broken other than the fact we need to impliment something that disallows abandoning levequests after they reach a certain ammount of completion. maybe make it impossible for a leve to be abandoned after its 80% complete to avoid people exploiting the system.

mainvein wrote:
While you may feel its fine the majority simply does not.

whats that you said about semantics? you say majority, i say some.

mainvein wrote:
Players such as yourself sat idly by or defending the game while the rest of us advocated for change. When the changes came you rejoiced and said all was well but clearly misunderstood that it wasn't. So when we mentioned "sp is broken" you started defending the game again. And when we get sp fixed you will rejoice once again and the pattern continues.

i actually have been quite active through many channels voicing my opinions on how the game can be bettered. check my post history you'll find a few that i posted pretty recently in the feedback forum requesting changes made to the structuring of linkshells and the addition of player created mods and addons to the game. making broad generalizations and assumptions never leads to posative conversations.

mainvein wrote:
Even if you say its fine the way it is your sub alone will not sustain the game.

and again it works both ways. your sub alone, or your cancellation because you think something is broken will not make or break the game. there are a significant number of people who are playing the game in its current state and are continuing to have fun and looking forward to progress and change. my sub alone will not sustain the game, but all of ours will.

mainvein wrote:
learn the value of a dollar until you have done that don't give people sh*t about voicing a complaint over the cash spent.

i understand the value of a dollar, i am a married man in my late 20s with a 2 year old daughter. neither me or my wife have amazing jobs but we get by with what we have. if we were ever in a position where i would be that mad about buying a game i didnt like tho because that 60$ ment sooooooooo much to me i wouldnt have spent that money in the first place tho. i would have saved it for something more indispensable. if "wasting" 60$ hurt somebody that bad they should have bought groceries instead of video games.



Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 5:30am by Elamille
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#18 Dec 22 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Elamille wrote:
mainvein wrote:

For some odd reason I can point out why it broken but you cant point out how its not hmmm.


i cant point out why its not broken for the same reason i cant point out why my tv isnt broken. it turns on, i can see pictures on it, theres sound, it changes channels, its not broken.

i log onto ff, i kill things solo and get sp. i invite a person to my party and we kill something a little tougher and get better sp. if i do this enough times i get a rank up. sp is working fine.

for someone who keeps saying people need to re-read your posts 10 times maybe u should consider conveying your message a little more clearly, and with a little less biased hatred. the 1 point you keep bringing up to support your "broken sp" is abandoning a leve so you can get it next reset. ya kno what? thats not a broken sp system. thats a broken leve system. they are two different things.

most people who complain about how sp is broken say there is 0 benefit to being in a party, and this is where i have a problem. if i kill blues by myself and get 60sp, i can duo mobs that would have been green when i was solo (but are now blue since im in a party) for 100 sp. its easy as that. the vast majority of "broken sp" arguments stem from partying, and partying isnt broken. can it be improved? sure it can. make the reward for killing really tough monsters higher, everyone wants that. but to say there is no reason to join a party at all and that you can get better sp soloing is just dumb and untrue. if thats the case these people need to get out there and experiment a little, they'll find out whats going on.



Please stop saying people need to experiment to find out what's going on, we have and we do know!

Yes leve and behest are great.

people are abandoning leve to guarantee it is available next reset so they guarantee uber sp gain from them. Does that sound right?

I earn the same or very very similar SP solo as I do in a party - does that sound right for an MMO. (grinding not leve linking)

I earn the most efficient SP per hour fighting the weakest mobs, parties earn less sp fighting challanging mobs. The higher the lvl mob BUT LOWER ITS HP, the better the SP. Does that sound right?

Wait till you get 35+ and need well over 60K sp to level and get terrible SP. You are forced to fight pathetic weak spider mobs to level efficiently when leve and behest are on CD.

We have taken to camping in R40 camps so we can get synth support and doing hourly behests. Grinding mobs is just not an efficient use of our time. It is more efficent to craft and use behest SP, when no leve are available. Yes coblyn and doblyn do potentially give great sp, but it is brain frying to kill them for any substantial duration. Also, with the amount of people now camping them, they are probably not the best mob anymore. I am sure SE did not intend coblyn/doblyn to be the grind mobs of choice. Looking at their drops and the fact they are easy to kill, to me they appear more of a farming mob for ores if you didn;t want to mine. Personally that is why I farmed Iron Coblyn initially.

Does any of this sound like SP is working perfectly.

People also say that "we" will not be happy until Eft give 500 sp per mob, this is complete garbage.

The below figures illustrate would I would find acceptable for these types of mobs. Keep solo and behest exactly as they are, these values would represent say a 6 man party. Easy to manage and not an over sized zerg crew.

Eft Tam Tara / Mistbeard - 215-235
Eft Tree Speak / Nine Ivies - (Slightly Higher Level) - 235-250
Raptors - 250-285
Salamander (think its this mob) - 285 - 300

A far cry from the 500 sp per mob most are claiming "we" want.

I would also bet that most people who think the SP grind system is screwed would agree with those.

Partying would then have a slightly better return than soloing but nothing too OP. An increase of about 25-30% would be awesome.



Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 6:48am by MisterGaribaldi

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 7:29am by MisterGaribaldi
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#19 Dec 22 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Default
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My bad double post - forum fail

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 6:42am by MisterGaribaldi
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#20 Dec 22 2010 at 5:46 AM Rating: Good
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Since when is bolding every other line standard forum etiquette?

Because it's annoying.
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#21 Dec 22 2010 at 6:03 AM Rating: Default
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Elamille wrote:
mainvein wrote:

I understand what your saying but considering we do leves generally for the sp its a case of antics with semantics. However since you did state your case some what clearly I will attempt to do the same. Now i see you have one battle class past 20 so unless your talking about your sp on Lancer it simply wont apply.

your lnc 25, im lnc 24. its fair to say we have a relatively equal knowledge of the system so lets work under that assumption.

Fair enough but 20 conj 21 pug 25 thm and spending all my time in battle classes before and after the sp patch might give me a better perspective as it seems you chose to craft more granted I'll say its all the same.
mainvein wrote:
the most efficient sp come from some very specific leves which not only need to be abandoned before completion for the most efficient grind some of those leves themselves are bugged with drop rates so they continually spawn mobs. For those who want to do what may come rather naturally and group grind mobs that are more challenging and rewarding to the players skills they have relatively no options to sp and get the experience at the same time.

while this may be true to some extent this still doesnt show anything being broken other than the fact we need to impliment something that disallows abandoning levequests after they reach a certain ammount of completion. maybe make it impossible for a leve to be abandoned after its 80% complete to avoid people exploiting the system.

Thats good and fine but I would rather people not have to exploit the system in the first place.

mainvein wrote:
While you may feel its fine the majority simply does not.

whats that you said about semantics? you say majority, i say some.

Just to correct you semantics means the meaning of word and nothing more. Given the rampant complaints I hear I said majority but your right I could be wrong of the few of us left many may love it.

mainvein wrote:
Players such as yourself sat idly by or defending the game while the rest of us advocated for change. When the changes came you rejoiced and said all was well but clearly misunderstood that it wasn't. So when we mentioned "sp is broken" you started defending the game again. And when we get sp fixed you will rejoice once again and the pattern continues.

i actually have been quite active through many channels voicing my opinions on how the game can be bettered. check my post history you'll find a few that i posted pretty recently in the feedback forum requesting changes made to the structuring of linkshells and the addition of player created mods and addons to the game. making broad generalizations and assumptions never leads to posative conversations.

"most people who complain about how sp is broken say there is 0 benefit to being in a party, and this is where i have a problem" you do the same why point fingers. ANd while thats fine and dandy thats not a big concern.

mainvein wrote:
Even if you say its fine the way it is your sub alone will not sustain the game.

and again it works both ways. your sub alone, or your cancellation because you think something is broken will not make or break the game. there are a significant number of people who are playing the game in its current state and are continuing to have fun and looking forward to progress and change. my sub alone will not sustain the game, but all of ours will.

No it simply doesnt worth both ways like I said there are about 28k players last I check this is before billing even starts simply put its not enough to sustain an MMO. http://vpforums.org/imghost/69/ff14-player-numbers0.jpg A simple chart posted in another forum showing the decline.

mainvein wrote:
learn the value of a dollar until you have done that don't give people sh*t about voicing a complaint over the cash spent.

i understand the value of a dollar, i am a married man in my late 20s with a 2 year old daughter. neither me or my wife have amazing jobs but we get by with what we have. if we were ever in a position where i would be that mad about buying a game i didnt like tho because that 60$ ment sooooooooo much to me i wouldnt have spent that money in the first place tho. i would have saved it for something more indispensable. if "wasting" 60$ hurt somebody that bad they should have bought groceries instead of video games.

Indeed some feel that 60$ was a waist. Your remark alone tells me you don't understand having a child is not an automatic I know money card if you did your previous comment " to cry and moan that much about 60-80$ is ridiculous." Some players saved hard earned money to get the game and play it expecting something they did not get and while it is easier for other players for some supporting SE does require sacrifice. Anybody who buys anything as a consumer can voice complaint over product quality its not unreasonable its not whining its the right thing to do to make the product better in the future. I don't know the full extent of your situation but your comments alone mean you really don't get it. Funny note I never said I was ****** about the 60$ but I completely understood where he was coming from.

In reference to MisterGaribaldi I think what you said is fair. I am not at your rank yet but 500sp I don't think is the goal. A change that just reflects the scale in difficulty from facing blue to red mobs and grants bonuses to parties of more than 2 I feel is the goal your suggestion might be exactly what we are asking for.

they gave us all these large great creatures to fight but no real incentive to fight them now and thats part of the real shame.



Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 5:30am by Elamille



Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 7:12am by mainvein

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 7:14am by mainvein

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 7:19am by mainvein

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 7:20am by mainvein
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#22 Dec 22 2010 at 6:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Since I don't actually fight that much I'm not too sure but wouldn't this issue be resolved by simply canceling the mob con when in party and just have them con the same as when solo?

This way a higher level mob would still appear as Red and give acordingly SP isntead of showing as blue for a 6 man party and giving reduced SP as per blue...
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#23 Dec 22 2010 at 6:46 AM Rating: Default
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Hmm never thought of that if that is true it may really just be a bug related to mob con vs the intended way Sp is supposed to be. At the same time of you disable con then you could get a party of folk s the same level fighting reads they could solo at such pace that it would be the same as it is not with blues and duos. Maybe the con adjustment is too much atm and its just killing the party bonus. But what you said is something I haven't heard at all and it makes sense. Blue sp split 6 ways should be nothing epic. My only real hope is that see actually addresses that they know we have concerns about the sp system once they acknowledge at least we will have an idea of what will and wont be done.
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#24 Dec 22 2010 at 6:47 AM Rating: Good
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Sethern79 wrote:
[quote=mainvein][ WE DID BUY THE BOX! WE DID SPEND MONEY!

This a millon @#%^ing times this! I payed $80 for this game. Every time I hear people talk about how its free I want to stabb them in face! I have yet to get my $80 out of this game and no mater how long they make it free I will feel riped off untill I feel they have fixed this game or I take my $80 in the blood of SE bottom line! And for my math my $80 ends up being a good year of *****************



I went out on a date with this cute girl and spent 100 bucks on dinner for the both of us. The date was ok but I didn't get a second. Now I am disappointed and feel ripped off! Dear fictional woman, you didn't live up to my expectations and now I want my money back!


yes... that is what your post sounds like.



Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 7:49am by GusMorgan
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#25 Dec 22 2010 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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Yes I believe that would go someway to fixing it.

I really find it bizarre how their is an SP cap - it used to be 500 but it has now increased. You can only ever hit that cap leve linking (Forget level 1-20 as it is easy to hit cap there).

Leve and behest account for such a tiny percentage of mob population in game.

There is no way of hitting SP cap on normal mobs under any mechanic post 30+ (probably a lot earlier than that)
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#26 Dec 22 2010 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I just remembered that in FFXI (can't remember if Wow had that feature as well) regardless whether you were solo or in a party the mobs would always con at the same level, an Even Match when solo would stillc on as EM if you were in a 18 member alliance.
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#27 Dec 22 2010 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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GusMorgan wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
[quote=mainvein][ WE DID BUY THE BOX! WE DID SPEND MONEY!

This a millon @#%^ing times this! I payed $80 for this game. Every time I hear people talk about how its free I want to stabb them in face! I have yet to get my $80 out of this game and no mater how long they make it free I will feel riped off untill I feel they have fixed this game or I take my $80 in the blood of SE bottom line! And for my math my $80 ends up being a good year of *****************



I went out on a date with this cute girl and spent 100 bucks on dinner for the both of us. The date was ok but I didn't get a second. Now I am disappointed and feel ripped off! Dear fictional woman, you didn't live up to my expectations and now I want my money back!


yes... that is what your post sounds like.



Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 7:49am by GusMorgan




haha that was a funny post :) made me chuckle.

If only women were covered by the sale of goods act, if only online games were covered as well we would be golden.
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