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Market Ward Search vs AH PollFollow

#1 Dec 22 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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You knew I had to do it.

What are your thoughts on the new search feature?
I thought it was fine without it, but it's even better now. I do not want an AH.:22 (11.7%)
I like it less than I did before they added it and I think it should not have been added. I don't want an AH; just fix what you broke.:1 (0.5%)
I like it less than I did before; it used to be good, but now it sucks and I want an AH.:0 (0.0%)
I was unhappy, but I think it was a great improvement; the retainer system could still use more improvements, but I don't want an AH.:51 (27.1%)
I was unhappy, but I think it was a great improvement and I now think the system is fixed. No AH is needed, it's great as-is.:14 (7.4%)
I was unhappy, but I think it was a great improvement, but I still want an Auction House.:55 (29.3%)
I don't care at all about retainers. Stop wasting time on this and add an AH.:45 (23.9%)
Total:188
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#2 Dec 22 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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I answered with
Quote:
I was unhappy, but I think it was a great improvement; the retainer system could still use more improvements, but I don't want an AH


The only improvement I'd really like to see is the ability to search for multiple items at once, whether they are in the same ward or not. I think they did a great job with the addition of the search feature. It was implemented exactly as they said it would be, there are no unnecessary hurdles that I can see. So it looks like they learned a few lessons on UI design after the *********** that was the UI just a matter of weeks ago.
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#3 Dec 22 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seems too early for this poll, Mik.

People will answer that haven't even tried the search function first-hand yet.

Have you tried it yourself?
#4 Dec 22 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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RufuSwho wrote:
Seems too early for this poll, Mik.

People will answer that haven't even tried the search function first-hand yet.

Have you tried it yourself?


Haven't been on XIV since the update. I didn't want to add an "I haven't tried it yet" option because then people can't go back and change their vote later. I'll try to get on later today and play around with the search to see if I like it or not.
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#5 Dec 22 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
Seems too early for this poll, Mik.

People will answer that haven't even tried the search function first-hand yet.

Have you tried it yourself?


I've tried the search. It's nothing to write home about. In fact, it's even worse than the worst possible implementation I've imagined. However, since it's SOMETHING rather than NOTHING, it is helpful, and I'm sure some people will applaud it.

In the end, it comes down to this for me: I'd rather have a centralized, easy-to-use market system like an Auction House and deal with inflation/deflation/RMT rather than beat my head against the wall with a convoluted market system that requires a time investment beyond what I believe to be reasonable. There are measures that can be taken with an AH to minimize the problems that usually come along with it, but you can't fix/patch the current market ward system to be efficient without it turning into an auction house derivative - and what is the point of that?
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#6 Dec 22 2010 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm more along the lines of... I was ok with the system before knowing it had inbound tweaks coming, I really like the search funtion, and while I don't care so much now I wouldn't mind a global AH still.

I think with this last batch of patches we're no longer in limp mode, we're not crawling but we're not quite walking either... I'd say that XIV is an almost fully potty-trained toddler at this point; it randomly puts objects in its mouth and occasionally craps it's pants to the dismay of all in the room, but ultimately it puts a smile on my face the majority of the time.

I can easily see the game being pretty darn good with some added content now, hopefully that's the focus as we have pretty much all the major issues taken care of at this point and can fully take part in everything the game currently has to offer with minimal issues (minimal refers to some having problems with the SP gains and other things I think will be tweaked over time).
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#7 Dec 22 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Seems too early for this poll, Mik.

People will answer that haven't even tried the search function first-hand yet.

Have you tried it yourself?


Haven't been on XIV since the update. I didn't want to add an "I haven't tried it yet" option because then people can't go back and change their vote later. I'll try to get on later today and play around with the search to see if I like it or not.


Right on. I'm going to do the same before voting.
#8 Dec 22 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think is a major improvement, at least it is going on the right direction... However, I think the way it is right now forces people to put their retainer on the corresponding ward, heck it forced me to move my retainers, so I think once people start to realize the benefits of using the correct ward, the new search function will be more useful, and you'll be able to see more items in each ward.
#9 Dec 22 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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The new search is awesome. You know why? because stubborn brutes won't sell jack **** if they simply place their retainer in any old random ward they want. Search starts by picking a ward. Then you pick a category of item that ward is suppose to carry. Then you pick a specific type of item from within that category, and what have you. Basically, you can only search for items that are suppose to be in that ward.

The only down side is you can't have a single, catch-all retainer that sells a bit of everything. You'd have to have a few different retainers for the different wards your wares belong in.

I think it's just fine now. Search for the most. YG for the rest. No need for us to keep whining that SE fix it, because the risk is simply too great that they will make it worse.
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#10 Dec 22 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Default
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The search function is an improvement but its not even close to being as user friendly as an Ebay style(WoW) Auction House. If people were on the fence about quitting I dont think this will make them stay. People who quit still have a reason to tell potential new customers to "stay away that game is so crappy it doesnt even have an AH, its got some stupid ward system where you have to teleport to different wards and search through tons of retainers." and yes that statement is STILL true.
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#11 Dec 22 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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FenrirXIII wrote:
No need for us to keep whining that SE fix it, because the risk is simply too great that they will make it worse.


I think this is a very valid point that lots of people are missing. The AH in FFXI was that economies downfall, so rest assured if we got an AH it would be different than in XI. Of course that carries with it an inherent risk that the implementation would be screwed up somehow. Think of SE's track record.
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#12 Dec 22 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Default
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Jefro420 wrote:
FenrirXIII wrote:
No need for us to keep whining that SE fix it, because the risk is simply too great that they will make it worse.


I think this is a very valid point that lots of people are missing. The AH in FFXI was that economies downfall, so rest assured if we got an AH it would be different than in XI. Of course that carries with it an inherent risk that the implementation would be screwed up somehow. Think of SE's track record.


What if they copied EBAYs basic properties I think that would work great. It works just fine for WoW.
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#13 Dec 22 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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A search feature without free-form search is pretty disappointing. That said, it's an improvement over what was there before, and they said they'll be adding a free-form text based search. So Kudos to them.

I voted I like it, it's an improvement, but still want an AH.

They claim to have avoided AH due to RMT, but everyone sees bots on a daily basis. They clearly failed, so implement a damned AH already. Keep retainers/bazaars, encourage interpersonal communication, but add a freaking AH!
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#14 Dec 22 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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I voted "I was unhappy, but I think it was a great improvement, but I still want an Auction House".

what they have works well enough I guess. But I still hate it on principle, and I think its stupid. I think all the problems that people think it solves, in fact it does not. It also causes a few new problems, and wastes time. I'm a free market guy in the real world, and I prefer it in my 'hobbies' aswell.

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#15 Dec 22 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm really content with what I have in terms of the new market wards, I did want to see something different than an Auction house, and the items load up quicker (at least for me) than they did in Final Fantasy XI.

So yeah, big improvement from what there was (Market Wards at launch were a disaster) and I no longer get headaches and was able to get my CON gear a complete overhaul in gear within five minutes. So I'm happy with what we have now. Personally, I don't think we need an Auction House, but if player sentiment keeps spiraling that way, we might end up getting one anyway.
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#16 Dec 22 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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I'm with you, Grover.

I like this system. It's what I need and yes, I actually LOVE SE forcing us to use the correct wards. It reminds me of a parent saying "because I said so!" to a child.

Face it guys, no matter what they do, it won't be enough for you. FFXI is being looked at through rose-colored glasses. Does anyone even remember the lag from **** in Jueno? I do. Even after 5 years, I hated Lower Lueno. The AH would load, but searches took forever or timed out. Bazaaring stuff was a farce unto itself. Half the crap would be undersold by RMT while we slept. And RMT..please. That's ALL we complained about. Now we want to give them an edge to just to go back to a comfort zone? No, thanks.

This is NOT FFXI. I do NOT want FFXI. If I wanted an AH, I'd go to FFXI.

Tweaks on the Markets I can see and definitely appreciate. Search is extremely helpful. (Do me and everyone else a favor, and put your items in the right ward or it won't be bought by me.) I'm happy. Thank you, SE.
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#17 Dec 22 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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I think there are a few too many options to get anything decisive from that poll. Still, it's a very good step in the right direction in terms of finding items you need.

The only issue I have now is that people often sell many different goods, often on the same retainer. That means they pick whichever ward is best for their particularly expensive items or those they have most of. In short, you're missing out on searches for other items those retainers might have because they're not in the correct ward for it.

It's a massive improvement, but there's still some room for it to grow.
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#18 Dec 22 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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Nekovivie wrote:

This is NOT FFXI. I do NOT want FFXI. If I wanted an AH, I'd go to FFXI.


Maybe I'm misinformed. What modern MMOs don't have an AH? This isn't the only difference between XIV and XI. Nor is an AH specific to XI.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 1:35pm by volta1
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#19 Dec 22 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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Where's the option of 'It was better before the search function was added'? :S
#20 Dec 22 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Jefro420 wrote:
FenrirXIII wrote:
No need for us to keep whining that SE fix it, because the risk is simply too great that they will make it worse.


I think this is a very valid point that lots of people are missing. The AH in FFXI was that economies downfall, so rest assured if we got an AH it would be different than in XI. Of course that carries with it an inherent risk that the implementation would be screwed up somehow. Think of SE's track record.



I keep reading this sentiment over and over but I fail to understand how the Auction House ruined the economy.

People complain about undercutting by RMT. Someone was able to do what you do for less, or could live with smaller profit margins. So either you be more efficient, go find a new product to sell, or sell at a loss in hopes of putting your competitor out of business. It wasn't just RMT undercutting, I'd undercut all day long if it meant taking your market share and moving my product.

People complain the AH led to inflation, when in reality it was due to too much gil in the economy and the items whose value skyrocketed obviously were difficult to obtain.

I think the lack of an AH in FFXIV is already causing problems. You can read numerous posts where people are ranking up their DoH jobs because they can't find materials for a recipe. The system is so tedious it's causing people to not participate in the economy. The fewer people participating, the fewer goods in the wards, the fewer people who will try and shop there.

At this point I don't bother with the wards, if I need something I'll farm it or craft it. Because if I do either of those I have loot/gil or exp/sp to show for my efforts instead of possibly coming away from the wards empty handed.

First I bought Gran Turismo 3, and I loved it. Then I bought a sports car and never touched GT3 again. If I wanted to spend hours looking through the wards, I'd just go to the flea market in real life.
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#21 Dec 22 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:

You can read numerous posts where people are ranking up their DoH jobs because they can't find materials for a recipe. The system is so tedious it's causing people to not participate in the economy.


This is exactly what my problem is and why I don't participate in the wards. I can never find anything that I need in the wards, like Dodo Leather or Fish Glue, and as such, I have to level my DoH and DoL classes just to get them. Afterwards, and I know this sounds selfish, I'm not going to give away my mats that I worked to get, and I'm definitely not going to risk placing them on a market where they may never sell/get sold for much less than they are worth, or not even get listed because I accidentally put them in the wrong market.

The only thing I'm using my retainer for right now is a bank. That's it, nothing else. What's even sadder is that I'm able to find more pertinent materials by browsing through the AFK players sitting on the steps in Uldah or around the armory in Limsa Lominsa than through retainers in the wards.
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#22 Dec 22 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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Faladis wrote:
[quote=KitsurubamiSouzahara]
The only thing I'm using my retainer for right now is a bank. That's it, nothing else. What's even sadder is that I'm able to find more pertinent materials by browsing through the AFK players sitting on the steps in Uldah or around the armory in Limsa Lominsa than through retainers in the wards.


Yeah, I won't really probably use the wards to sell things till I can get another couple retainers. That is why you are seeing this - players like me that really want the convenience of being able to access our retainer's inventories. So I just afk bazaar things or sell them directly.

As for stuff like fish glue... you do realize that if you did a shout someone would probably respond pretty instantly, right?
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#23 Dec 22 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Market ward system is an unintuitive, overly complicated piece of ****. It barely solves any of the problems it was meant to solve and introduces a metric **** ton of others. It's designed for masochists. The longer they hold on to it, the more people that will lose interest.
#24 Dec 22 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:

As for stuff like fish glue... you do realize that if you did a shout someone would probably respond pretty instantly, right?


Unfortunately, I do shout, pretty frequently seeing as how I craft several hammers/knives and want to start mass producing spears for lancers, but I rarely ever get a response, and usually it's in hiragana, which I'm not fluent in and can barely read bits of. (Which means it may very well be kanji or katakana even.)
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#25 Dec 22 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
FenrirXIII wrote:
No need for us to keep whining that SE fix it, because the risk is simply too great that they will make it worse.


I think this is a very valid point that lots of people are missing. The AH in FFXI was that economies downfall, so rest assured if we got an AH it would be different than in XI. Of course that carries with it an inherent risk that the implementation would be screwed up somehow. Think of SE's track record.



I keep reading this sentiment over and over but I fail to understand how the Auction House ruined the economy.

People complain about undercutting by RMT. Someone was able to do what you do for less, or could live with smaller profit margins. So either you be more efficient, go find a new product to sell, or sell at a loss in hopes of putting your competitor out of business. It wasn't just RMT undercutting, I'd undercut all day long if it meant taking your market share and moving my product.

People complain the AH led to inflation, when in reality it was due to too much gil in the economy and the items whose value skyrocketed obviously were difficult to obtain.

I think the lack of an AH in FFXIV is already causing problems. You can read numerous posts where people are ranking up their DoH jobs because they can't find materials for a recipe. The system is so tedious it's causing people to not participate in the economy. The fewer people participating, the fewer goods in the wards, the fewer people who will try and shop there.

At this point I don't bother with the wards, if I need something I'll farm it or craft it. Because if I do either of those I have loot/gil or exp/sp to show for my efforts instead of possibly coming away from the wards empty handed.

First I bought Gran Turismo 3, and I loved it. Then I bought a sports car and never touched GT3 again. If I wanted to spend hours looking through the wards, I'd just go to the flea market in real life.


I agree with you. The XI AH was not manipulated by RMT as much as some peoplewant you to believe. The reason the AH in xi led to such a cutthroat market was because of the limit on auctions you could place. If I only have 7 slots to post auctions, and an inventory full of items I need to sell... I'm going to make sure those items will sell, so I would undercut as much as possible just so my inventory wasn't clogged for a week.

With such a robust crafting game in XIv i think the same thing could happen if we arent given a limitless posting auction. If you have a limit to the amount of auctions, thenits no big deal if you sell today, or next week. But with a limit, sellers have to make sure their goods are always going to sell, causing a dramatic undercutting style market.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 3:49pm by ZoosRfun
#26 Dec 22 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Default
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Glitterhands wrote:
I think there are a few too many options to get anything decisive from that poll. Still, it's a very good step in the right direction in terms of finding items you need.

The only issue I have now is that people often sell many different goods, often on the same retainer. That means they pick whichever ward is best for their particularly expensive items or those they have most of. In short, you're missing out on searches for other items those retainers might have because they're not in the correct ward for it.

It's a massive improvement, but there's still some room for it to grow.


Well any kind of search a massive improvement over nothing, but what you've described is a fatal flaw that describes probably 80-90% of players that bother to use the wards at all--"some room for it to grow" is being a little too kind and generous.


Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 3:57pm by Furia
#27 Dec 22 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
FenrirXIII wrote:
No need for us to keep whining that SE fix it, because the risk is simply too great that they will make it worse.


I think this is a very valid point that lots of people are missing. The AH in FFXI was that economies downfall, so rest assured if we got an AH it would be different than in XI. Of course that carries with it an inherent risk that the implementation would be screwed up somehow. Think of SE's track record.


What if they copied EBAYs basic properties I think that would work great. It works just fine for WoW.

That AH is like monoply city, I wouldn't say it works just fine.
I agree we need an AH, but just as XI's AH isn't a good idea, WoW's isn't either. The value of gil would be crap in a month.
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#28 Dec 22 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Restyoneck wrote:
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
FenrirXIII wrote:
No need for us to keep whining that SE fix it, because the risk is simply too great that they will make it worse.


I think this is a very valid point that lots of people are missing. The AH in FFXI was that economies downfall, so rest assured if we got an AH it would be different than in XI. Of course that carries with it an inherent risk that the implementation would be screwed up somehow. Think of SE's track record.


What if they copied EBAYs basic properties I think that would work great. It works just fine for WoW.

That AH is like monoply city, I wouldn't say it works just fine.
I agree we need an AH, but just as XI's AH isn't a good idea, WoW's isn't either. The value of gil would be crap in a month.


To equate wow's AH to FFXIV, would just be opening every retainer at the same time. I have no idea why you think that would devalue gil.
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#29 Dec 22 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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ZoosRfun wrote:

I agree with you. The XI AH was not manipulated by RMT as much as some peoplewant you to believe. The reason the AH in xi led to such a cutthroat market was because of the limit on auctions you could place. If I only have 7 slots to post auctions, and an inventory full of items I need to sell... I'm going to make sure those items will sell, so I would undercut as much as possible just so my inventory wasn't clogged for a week.

With such a robust crafting game in XIv i think the same thing could happen if we arent given a limitless posting auction. If you have a limit to the amount of auctions, thenits no big deal if you sell today, or next week. But with a limit, sellers have to make sure their goods are always going to sell, causing a dramatic undercutting style market.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 3:49pm by ZoosRfun

Notice that I placed the blame squarely on the AH design, because admittedly, I undercut people as well. You had to otherwise you items wouldn't sell. I was a pretty casual player in XI and always had a hard time finding weapons and gear, mostly because they were expensive and drops were worth next to nothing comparatively. With the wards in XIV I haven't had nearly the same problem at all, in fact I've been able to find and afford to buy armor and weapons for the next several ranks for all my classes. Personally, I think the wards are a welcome improvement over an AH now that we can search them more easily.
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#30 Dec 22 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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ZoosRfun wrote:
KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
FenrirXIII wrote:
No need for us to keep whining that SE fix it, because the risk is simply too great that they will make it worse.


I think this is a very valid point that lots of people are missing. The AH in FFXI was that economies downfall, so rest assured if we got an AH it would be different than in XI. Of course that carries with it an inherent risk that the implementation would be screwed up somehow. Think of SE's track record.



I keep reading this sentiment over and over but I fail to understand how the Auction House ruined the economy.

People complain about undercutting by RMT. Someone was able to do what you do for less, or could live with smaller profit margins. So either you be more efficient, go find a new product to sell, or sell at a loss in hopes of putting your competitor out of business. It wasn't just RMT undercutting, I'd undercut all day long if it meant taking your market share and moving my product.

People complain the AH led to inflation, when in reality it was due to too much gil in the economy and the items whose value skyrocketed obviously were difficult to obtain.

I think the lack of an AH in FFXIV is already causing problems. You can read numerous posts where people are ranking up their DoH jobs because they can't find materials for a recipe. The system is so tedious it's causing people to not participate in the economy. The fewer people participating, the fewer goods in the wards, the fewer people who will try and shop there.

At this point I don't bother with the wards, if I need something I'll farm it or craft it. Because if I do either of those I have loot/gil or exp/sp to show for my efforts instead of possibly coming away from the wards empty handed.

First I bought Gran Turismo 3, and I loved it. Then I bought a sports car and never touched GT3 again. If I wanted to spend hours looking through the wards, I'd just go to the flea market in real life.


I agree with you. The XI AH was not manipulated by RMT as much as some peoplewant you to believe. The reason the AH in xi led to such a cutthroat market was because of the limit on auctions you could place. If I only have 7 slots to post auctions, and an inventory full of items I need to sell... I'm going to make sure those items will sell, so I would undercut as much as possible just so my inventory wasn't clogged for a week.

With such a robust crafting game in XIv i think the same thing could happen if we arent given a limitless posting auction. If you have a limit to the amount of auctions, thenits no big deal if you sell today, or next week. But with a limit, sellers have to make sure their goods are always going to sell, causing a dramatic undercutting style market.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 3:49pm by ZoosRfun

Yeah, I agree totally. While RMT did try to manipulate certain things, the majority of undercutting was due to exactly what you said. When you could only have 7 items up, getting them to sell to free up space for more sales was imperative. Having them sit there till time expired was literally losing money, as the prices just kept dropping. All you could do was undercut, or find something else to sell. That cycle just kept repeating itself over and over till you were ready to shoot yourself.
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#31 Dec 22 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jefro420 wrote:
[/i]
With the wards in XIV I haven't had nearly the same problem at all, in fact I've been able to find and afford to buy armor and weapons for the next several ranks for all my classes. Personally, I think the wards are a welcome improvement over an AH now that we can search them more easily.


The Wards are not the reason for this. The reason you have enough gil to buy gear is because SE actually gave us decent rewards from quests in FFXIV. Look at all the junk you NPC too, the value of those items are a lot higher than in FFXI.

I hardly ever had more than 500k gil at a time in FFXI, in FFXIV I hardly ever go under 500k gil. Unfortunately with all this extra gil will come inflation.

Edit: formatting

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 4:24pm by KitsurubamiSouzahara
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#32 Dec 22 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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From our sample group it seems over half the people that voted STILL want an auction house. SE stop ******* around and add an auction house already!
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#33 Dec 22 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
Problem for me, is it's still faster to look up YG or XIVPro.com and get what you need. You even get price comparisons there, so it's hard to say what SE did was great. It's a step in the right direction, and definitely something to keep around à la Rolanberry Fields/Upper Jeuno. Overall though, you're still wasting time (and not wasting it in a good way.)
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#34 Dec 22 2010 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
You know what - everyone keeps comparing the WoW and FFXI AHs to what FFXIV has (or hasn't).

Let's try a different comparison, though it's a been a few years so they might've changed since I played....

EVE.

EVE, for those who don't know it, is essentially a space ship based game. You can go about mining for materials to sell and get money, or you can go about hunting down pirates, or you can go bad and ambush other players. It can be pretty cut-throat. The market works by allowing you to do buy/sell transactions wherever, however to pick up the item you've bought you have to travel to the system from which you bought it. That demands that you either (a) choose convenience over price and pay more for something closer, or (b) get the low-cost option far far away (if that's the case) but then spend a great deal of time waiting for your ship to auto-navigate itself there through safer areas, or otherwise take control of your ship for the trip and hazard riskier areas, possibly losing your ship - which you might've spent a lot of time and money on building up - and the pod of your body which inhabits it in the process.

The big differences between EVE and the FFXIV world :
FFXIV is set on one world instead of numerous star systems,
FFXIV is going to have a mail system at some point, probably early 2011 (or at least that's what the devs have implied)
FFXIV doesn't have the advanced technological setting of EVE.

Therefore, in comparison :
-> the yet-to-be-implemented mail system could remove the requirement to travel to pick up your goods, but in turn should the FFXIV mail system have a delivery delay to mimic real world conditions?
-> has the technology of the world of EORZEA advanced enough so that inter-city price checking and buy/sell orders are possible, or should it be restricted to a city by city basis (as per FFXI) to reflect the available Eorzean technology?
-> the big concern of using markets in ffxi (as has previously been mentioned) is the overwhelming lag of approaching the AH area. Mainly caused by two things - other ppl also checking the markets (including ppl who made their gil from buying low and selling high or otherwise monopolising a certain item), and ppl who sat their char or alt with a bazaar up near the AH and left it there in the hopes that someone just might happen to check it. I've notice a number of ppl using ul'dah's steps as a good position to leave their char's bazaar and it's ******* me off, quite frankly. I get some lag from it, but my PC and connection are such that this doesn't particularly concern me. The reason why it ****** me off is that I can't help thinking of all those players (and there are quite a few) for who lag causes no end of difficulties. Placing player bazaars up in such a fashion inconveniences *them*.

I refuse to even /browse these player bazaars because of this.

...How is it I've ended up comparing ffxiv to ffxi? ^^

Anyway, the point I suppose I'm trying to get across is - FFXIV isn't FFXI, it isn't WoW, it isn't EVE - it's FFXIV.
Eorzea has it's own world rules that any market system which is implement must adhered too.

Frankly with the new search feature I don't see a need for it, and for those ppl who still persist in talking about an AH, could you please at least wait until Companies are implemented to see what, if any, impact they have on the game's dynamic.

Please /\ .
#35 Dec 22 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Frankly with the new search feature I don't see a need for it, and for those ppl who still persist in talking about an AH, could you please at least wait until Companies are implemented to see what, if any, impact they have on the game's dynamic.


I cannot possibly think of a way that companies will increase the amount of goods added to the market place, or increase the speed and ease of market transactions. What are they going to do, add an easy/quick search that is only applicable for use with people who you are likely already in contact with? Actually thats just backwards enough to actually happen in this game.
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#36 Dec 22 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
KujaKoF wrote:

I cannot possibly think of a way that companies will increase the amount of goods added to the market place, or increase the speed and ease of market transactions. What are they going to do



That's precisely the point. We don't know yet what companies will do, how they will fit in ^^.

If companies can collectively buy ships and buildings and are formed from the player base - then is it possible that companies may be able to form their own defacto market or AH system?

We just don't know yet.

Personally, I can't wait to find out ^^.
#37 Dec 22 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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market wards are still less convenient and still take more time than using an AH, therefore i still hate the market wards.
convenience is important to me, unfortunately this isnt as convenient as it could be.
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#38 Dec 22 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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Just to remind everyone...

Quote:


-Further adjustments to retainers
---An increase in retainer inventory capacity
---An increase in the number of items that can be placed in a retainer's bazaar
---A fix assuring that retainers do not leave their bazaar locations after server maintenance
---The addition of a sale/purchase history
---Functionality changes to the "buying" feature

-The addition of a delivery service



As per SE on first 2011 update. So there's still some improvements coming. Just thought I'd post this because I see a lot of people asking for a mail box system, its coming; also I think sale history would be awesome (I'm guessing this is for the seller not the buyer) and I'm glad retainers aren't going to get knocked offline too.
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#39 Dec 22 2010 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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"I was unhappy, but I think it was a great improvement, but I still want an Auction House"... as an alternative and a supplement to the Market Wards.

I believe options are always a good thing.
#40 Dec 22 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
I don't believe an AH is needed anymore. People need to give the current system some time before they flat out bash it and start yelling how it's horrid. Give a week or two and when people start finally realizing their goods will sell in the correct ward even quicker, we'll have more success. As it is right now my retainer sold nearly all of my excess gear in less than 8 hours just because I set them in the correct ward, and used YG to find fair prices on everything. I think they said it would be added in but I do hope to see an in-game view of the "average" price things are sold for later on. Just to give an idea on what may be the recommended price. After all, nothing saying you have to sell it for that price, you can just sell it for less if you're trying to move it, or more if it's virtually the only for sale right now.
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#41 Dec 22 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's like building a robot:

"Hey we can build an Asimo type robot! We have the knowledge and we can put lasers on it. We can improve on it in every way!"

"No, no, no. I just built a marionette with strings and everything. There's more control and its more involved. It's like the original robot."

A few weeks later...

"My marionette's strings are getting all tangled. I've found a way to keep them inline by putting a hard cylindrical cover over the strings."

"The Asimo is proven, and we could do better things with it!"

"No, no, no. MY robot is working better each and every day. People are going to love it.

A few more weeks later...

"I've made it so my marionette can act on it's own...kinda. I made a gear system that allows you to activate the puppet with little input on your behalf."

"So, it's like a worse Asimo?"

"No, no, no. It's just...different.

The last day...

"My marionette is complete! It's made completely of plastic, filled with silicon, and is fully functioning on it's own!"

"You made...an Asimo?"

"NO! It's a marionette! You can't take away my baby!!!!!11!"

----

In the end the retainer system will look more and more like an AH. But at most it will function like a broken AH, and unfortunately people will make excuses for it.

You can say that SE is improving on the retainers (as I did). But I think there has to be a point where you say, this is a very inefficient system, let's start over.
#42 Dec 22 2010 at 10:59 PM Rating: Good
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They should leave it as is, but just put in a freakin' AH already. A WOW style AH with no limits on how many items you can put up will be needed for this game, seeing as how virtually every item is needed for a craft somewhere.
#43 Dec 22 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
I don't mind it, I think overall it's slightly more useful than totally unlabelled retainers were. It still requires more out of me planning-wise than it ought to, though: instead of bringing back my booty raw from the field (ranging from harvest ingredients to mob drops) and selling the motley overnight, I have to come up with a 10/10 spread of JUST ONE TYPE, so as to not waste space that could earn me money in bazaar. That aggravates me, it feels like the developers are trying to force me to play a certain way and that puts me off any game.

I can live with it. I even make more money this way: I made almost 100k overnight. All the same, I still prefer the AH system: I can see what sells and what doesn't, who paid what for what, what I should be charging, what the availability really is. I spent a lot of time today tediously checking items throughout the ward just to make sure I wasn't being undercut. If this system is designed to prevent that, it doesn't (not sure anything can), but it does make it more tedious, which I suppose is an improvement if they wanted to avoid price fixing. It still means the guy who isn't checking his stuff won't sell. Smiley: frown

I know there's a lot of love for this system on the boards, but frankly I think it's an unnecessarily complicated workaround to a very simple solution. If the idea is to curb RMT, I think the fact that it's so much easier to make money has already helped with that: if it's to curb the players, that's some kinda nonsense right there.

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#44 Dec 22 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
I don't believe an AH is needed anymore. People need to give the current system some time before they flat out bash it and start yelling how it's horrid. Give a week or two and when people start finally realizing their goods will sell in the correct ward even quicker, we'll have more success. As it is right now my retainer sold nearly all of my excess gear in less than 8 hours just because I set them in the correct ward, and used YG to find fair prices on everything. I think they said it would be added in but I do hope to see an in-game view of the "average" price things are sold for later on. Just to give an idea on what may be the recommended price. After all, nothing saying you have to sell it for that price, you can just sell it for less if you're trying to move it, or more if it's virtually the only for sale right now.


So... 2 months isn't enough time to see how utterly inconvienent and inexcusably terrible the Market Wards is? Sorry, this whole "give the current system a chance" white knighting doesn't fly anymore. It's a ****-poor patch on a limping system that does nothing more than waste your time.

Like someone said, the next time you need to go shopping for something hit up a flea-market. And do that every day for two months. Then go to your Auct-- I mean, supermarket, and you'll be damned glad you can easily search through goods in a unified manner.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 12:50am by StrijderVechter
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