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#1 Dec 22 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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that leves are not content. Leves are hollow fillers that we rely on instead of grinding. Leves are not actual quests, stop listing them under new content, they are not content, they are a substitute for grinding that we can do 8 times every day and a half. The community does not want more leves, we want ACTUAL npc side quests. Stop with your levequest fetish, and give us side quests.

/rant
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#2 Dec 22 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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More leves WOULD be nice actually, to give the leve system more variety. But not like 3-4 per update. There should be 30-40 per update.
#3 Dec 22 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfums wrote:
More leves WOULD be nice actually, to give the leve system more variety. But not like 3-4 per update. There should be 30-40 per update.


Leves are fine for what they are, a substitute grind. Add more if they want, but stop listing it under "Content" in your Version Update details, and stop pretending that we consider these "Fun". They're ok for a while, but I, nor anyone I know, gets on at the time of reset and enthusiastically proceeds to do them for the sole purpose of entertainment.
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#4 Dec 22 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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oh so very true
#5 Dec 22 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Domino7337 wrote:
Wolfums wrote:
More leves WOULD be nice actually, to give the leve system more variety. But not like 3-4 per update. There should be 30-40 per update.


Leves are fine for what they are, a substitute grind. Add more if they want, but stop listing it under "Content" in your Version Update details, and stop pretending that we consider these "Fun". They're ok for a while, but I, nor anyone I know, gets on at the time of reset and enthusiastically proceeds to do them for the sole purpose of entertainment.


They are wildly entertaining sub-20 where you can aspect them, get like 900 SP/kill, and gain a new level/ability every 10 minutes--but yea, that's not really the content of the leve.


Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 3:01pm by Furia
#6 Dec 22 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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So how are you supposed to level up if you don't do leves? Grind off mobs?
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#7 Dec 22 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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NeithanTheWronged wrote:
So how are you supposed to level up if you don't do leves? Grind off mobs?


What are you supposed to do once you actually get to high levels?
#8 Dec 22 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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reroll
#9 Dec 22 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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That sounds like a lot of fun

/sarcasm off
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#10 Dec 22 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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speak for yourself, I want more leves.
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#11 Dec 22 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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I want more leves!
I want them to be appropriate for my job level thoough.
I'm about tired of running the whole world to cobble together 3 measly 35+ leves, and the rest are all 1-15. That's useless. No SP, no xp, no reward that's uselful to our current level of recipes.
I find it suspect that the game knows when i can start getting the next tier of leves, but doesn't know it needs to put that specific rank range in the leve counter for me.
Sounds like a intentional and artificial roadblock to me.

I do agree with the OP on SE not announcing it as a key part of an upcoming update. New "Kill this many of this and port back to camp." or "Make this many of this and deliver it, and run back to town." quests are not exactly newsworthy as far as updates go.
Real sidequests ala Onion Brigade are sorely missing.
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#12 Dec 22 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't really have a problem with the leve system, but get some substance in there. They're all so similar, plus whatever new gimmick they added that rank.
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#13 Dec 22 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sorry, but leves are silly compared to actual content. I am glad to see that people enjoy them, and love them in place of grinding.

But I play RPGs for the stories, the fun interactions, I level to get to the point where I can find out more, or interact more.

It would be fun even if we could get guild marks for completing quests. Or even gil, or experience, but at the end of the day, a reason to do things is how I see quests. Without them, there is no real reason.

Even going and collecting three bat wings over and over again... At least it's something.

A chocobo quest.
A quest for Discipline tools/weaspons
A quest for special abilities for a discipline
A quest for Airships
A quest for additional storage space
A quest for additional Leve Quests (unlocking new leves)
A quest for allowing for more leve quests in a 36 hour period

I mean there are many options of rewards that they could give that wouldn't impact the economy or give exp (while it would be nice if they had some repeatable exp quests).

Guild leves remind me too much of the eco-warrior quests in FFXI. They were great in the beginning, but wow, talk about repetition....
#14 Dec 22 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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This thread confuses me! Content IS Content, practically by definition:

con·tent – noun
1. Usually, contents.
a.something that is contained: the contents of a box.
5. that which may be perceived in something: the latent versus the manifest content of a dream.
9. the amount contained.

Therefore, logically, anything that is currently IN-GAME IS CONTENT. This means that Leves ARE content while things like Chocobos (Rideable mounts, that is, not just the ones we see) are NOT content, because they are not yet in the game.

Just because you don't LIKE the content SE has provided doesn't mean that it 'isn't content'. Unless you have somehow usurped the power to redefine the english language?

On a personal note, I am having a blast with the new leves recently put in the game. Come to think of it, there are quite a few leves that have been fun. Of course after the first 5 or 6 times, they just become part of the grind, but I don't mind that either, so long as we get new leves every so often.

#15 Dec 22 2010 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I think they mean add content that isn't boring
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#16 Dec 22 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you play a game 8 hours a day, everyday, then no amount of content is going to satisfy.
#17 Dec 22 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Default
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Beanlen wrote:
This thread confuses me! Content IS Content, practically by definition:

con·tent – noun
1. Usually, contents.
a.something that is contained: the contents of a box.
5. that which may be perceived in something: the latent versus the manifest content of a dream.
9. the amount contained.

Therefore, logically, anything that is currently IN-GAME IS CONTENT. This means that Leves ARE content while things like Chocobos (Rideable mounts, that is, not just the ones we see) are NOT content, because they are not yet in the game.

Just because you don't LIKE the content SE has provided doesn't mean that it 'isn't content'. Unless you have somehow usurped the power to redefine the english language?

On a personal note, I am having a blast with the new leves recently put in the game. Come to think of it, there are quite a few leves that have been fun. Of course after the first 5 or 6 times, they just become part of the grind, but I don't mind that either, so long as we get new leves every so often.



I couldn't help but notice you jumped from definition 1 to 5. And you skipped 6, 7, and 8.

Now, I am not sure where you looked up your definition, but a couple of definitions are you missing includes:
Usually, contents.
a.
something that is contained: the contents of a box.
b.
the subjects or topics covered in a book or document.
c.
the chapters or other formal divisions of a book or document: a table of contents.
2.
something that is to be expressed through some medium, as speech, writing, or any of various arts: a poetic form adequate to a poetic content.
3.
significance or profundity; meaning: a clever play that lacks content.
<<<
From Dictionary.com

Definition #2 and #3 are the two that people are upset about. The simple definition of something which has been contained. You are nitpicking, and doing it badly. The idea of something to do in the game, some writing, some speech, some significance.

Leves do not qualify for any of that.

And as you pointed out, they are not in the game. The request is that they be added, and added as content (by the full defintion). A quest to obtain, something that people can enjoy obtaining.
#18 Dec 22 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Default
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It's content, but it's fairly lame as content goes.

Don't get me wrong, craftleves are a big improvement over "level up on your own dime, sucker". And it's okay that you get a couple of lower-level craftleves with higher-level rewards showing up along with the higher-level craftleves. (WHY Momodi is willing to turn over buffalo hides or electrum ingots in exchange for rank 1 craftleves, I dunno, but she does...)

But some of the leves are just silly. At rank 20, I'm not going to hike out to Broken Water or Bluefog to deliver a rank 1 leve in exchange for a handful of copper ore, guys. Heck, I can't even reliably MAKE it out to those camps at my level!

And that's my biggest problem with it right there. Someone wasn't thinking of reward versus opportunity cost when they were drawing up the code that determines which leves I get offered. I wouldn't mind being offered fewer leves if they were all either high-reward easy ones, or high-difficulty ones for leveling. I definitely mind having to sort through a stack of "run for 20 minutes and synth six recipes for a handful of copper or moko grass" to find the one that's worth doing.

I'm one of those crazy guys who works on many crafts, so it's not such a big deal that individual crafts don't have tons of leves at high level per town. But don't make me page through crappy leve after crappy leve to find ones worth doing... and don't make the same crappy leves appear every day!
#19 Dec 22 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Heh, now who is nitpicking (by the way, how is your point any more valid than mine)? I skipped those definitions because they didn't pertain to the point that I was making.

Content doesn't have to meet every single aspect listed in the 10 different definitions of 'content' it just has to meet 1 of them to be defined as content. For example definition #1.c. 'the chapters or other formal divisions of a book or document: a table of contents.' OBVIOUSLY does not apply to MMOs because the media is not a book, it is a game. Does that mean that anything NOT listed in a table of contents is not, by definition, content? No, of course not, that is just foolish. On the flip side, if it IS listed in a table of contents then it is BY DEFINITION content.

Therefore, LOGICALLY speaking again, anything CONTAINED within FFXIV is, BY DEFINITION, content.

The OP's opening statement was: "that leves are not content. Leves are hollow fillers that we rely on instead of grinding. Leves are not actual quests, stop listing them under new content, they are not content"

By definition, this is false. Leves are actually content and SHOULD be listed as such because they are completely new features and not just fixes of existing features or bugs.

Now if the post was "SE Please understand that leves are not MEANINGFUL enough" we would be having a different discussion.
#20 Dec 22 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Default
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Beanlen wrote:
Heh, now who is nitpicking (by the way, how is your point any more valid than mine)? I skipped those definitions because they didn't pertain to the point that I was making.

Content doesn't have to meet every single aspect listed in the 10 different definitions of 'content' it just has to meet 1 of them to be defined as content. For example definition #1.c. 'the chapters or other formal divisions of a book or document: a table of contents.' OBVIOUSLY does not apply to MMOs because the media is not a book, it is a game. Does that mean that anything NOT listed in a table of contents is not, by definition, content? No, of course not, that is just foolish. On the flip side, if it IS listed in a table of contents then it is BY DEFINITION content.

Therefore, LOGICALLY speaking again, anything CONTAINED within FFXIV is, BY DEFINITION, content.

The OP's opening statement was: "that leves are not content. Leves are hollow fillers that we rely on instead of grinding. Leves are not actual quests, stop listing them under new content, they are not content"

By definition, this is false. Leves are actually content and SHOULD be listed as such because they are completely new features and not just fixes of existing features or bugs.

Now if the post was "SE Please understand that leves are not MEANINGFUL enough" we would be having a different discussion.


ok you win? You've completely ignored everyone's point in order to invalidate it through a dictionary definition. Thank god you grammar checked your post so nobody could burn you on that.
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#21 Dec 22 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm wondering why you are speaking for THE COMMUNITY o.O

Actually there are people (like me) that enjoy guildleves and would like to see more of them (like rank 50 guildleves or different camps since a lot of them are unused).

Just this. If you don't like the guildleve sistem it's ok, but don't say that THE COMMUNITY doesn't want them.
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#22 Dec 22 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
If you play a game 8 hours a day, everyday, then no amount of content is going to satisfy.


But you can have enough content to satisfy most people.

The problem is how SE planned the game. They based it off of FFXI where all you had was grinding in PTs. Leves are nothing more than FoVs. There are too few leves and PTing just isn't viable.

In WoW (especially now in Cata) you're progressing through the world, the world is changing and you're getting rewards. In FFXIV there is no motivation to progress, and the repetatative nature of leves makes leveling very tedious. Especially with multiple jobs.

Now do I want a WoW clone? No. But SE has to realize what makes good pacing in an MMO, and to be honest it's not much different from a single player game. All it is is MORE content. I want to feel like I'm exploring the world during a leve. I want to get something for my time. I'd want it to be challenging, I'd want it to be a part of the story, and I I don't want to do it over 6 or 20 times.

At the very least I'd like to see more and varied leves.

NPC quests.

Gear quests, more job quests.

Just milestones in general.
#23 Dec 22 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Domino7337 wrote:
that leves are not content. Leves are hollow fillers that we rely on instead of grinding. Leves are not actual quests, stop listing them under new content, they are not content, they are a substitute for grinding that we can do 8 times every day and a half. The community does not want more leves, we want ACTUAL npc side quests. Stop with your levequest fetish, and give us side quests.

/rant


New Special Mission is sorta side quests already, with tons of funny dialogue and stuff >_> and you have to go through step 1, step 2 then finally unlock step 3. If anything, add more like those, but as normal leve.
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#24 Dec 22 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Default
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I think they should finish the game.
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#25 Dec 22 2010 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
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redfoxxredfoxx wrote:
I think they should finish the game.


Define finished for me please. I see this and think I must have missed something. While the game is certainly lacking I've yet to see an MMO that's finished and no longer adds to the game.
#26 Dec 22 2010 at 8:44 PM Rating: Decent
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IMO, leve are content. Be it regional, local or fraction leve, they ARE content. I don't dislike them, but neither do I like to do them over and over again.I not very enthu in them. I think the content that most ppl are looking for are things that actually reward the players. Now i know there will be ppl who will rebuke me on this... Yes I know leve give you tons of exp and sp .. Yes I know they give u guild points and useful items .. Yes I know that by doing alot of leve, it allow you to quicken your progress in ranking up your class so u can progress in your class quest. But Wat I looking at is content that actually reward you. Taking example from 11, quest like the chocobo quest, Kazam keys, sub job quest etc etc. Things that you look forward to progressing you character... The class quest is fine.. But gaining to rank 20 just for 1 or 2 event makes me feel that ranking up is a chore, make me feel like a factory operator who keeps on doing the same motion again and again.even operator get sick of what they are doing and request to do other things after some times and engineer have to keep rotating what the operator do due to fatigue and complacent. SE can keep their leve, they are good. but its time they add in things like completing this leve will earn you this rewards that can only be obtain in this leve. Generally I hope that the inclusion of leve for NM rewarding you armor is a good start for a wonderful in game experience in FF 14. Keep up the good job SE!!! I lovin this game ever more !!
#27 Dec 22 2010 at 8:48 PM Rating: Excellent
I kind of agree with the OP.

I consider the leves to be part of the infrastructure of this game. Square Enix actually intended for us to do leves as an alternative to grinding. What this game needs now is non-essential content such as side quests, mid-level events, etc. That said, I think guild leves could someday fill that void, but SE needs to get more innovative. Think in terms of assault missions from FFXI.

Anyway, lack of true content is what's keeping this game from getting my A grade. That said, I have complete confidence the content I seek will be added very soon.

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#28 Dec 22 2010 at 8:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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This game doesn't lack Profundity.

I use it all the time.
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#29 Dec 22 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Beanlen wrote:
Heh, now who is nitpicking (by the way, how is your point any more valid than mine)? I skipped those definitions because they didn't pertain to the point that I was making.

Content doesn't have to meet every single aspect listed in the 10 different definitions of 'content' it just has to meet 1 of them to be defined as content. For example definition #1.c. 'the chapters or other formal divisions of a book or document: a table of contents.' OBVIOUSLY does not apply to MMOs because the media is not a book, it is a game. Does that mean that anything NOT listed in a table of contents is not, by definition, content? No, of course not, that is just foolish. On the flip side, if it IS listed in a table of contents then it is BY DEFINITION content.

Therefore, LOGICALLY speaking again, anything CONTAINED within FFXIV is, BY DEFINITION, content.

The OP's opening statement was: "that leves are not content. Leves are hollow fillers that we rely on instead of grinding. Leves are not actual quests, stop listing them under new content, they are not content"

By definition, this is false. Leves are actually content and SHOULD be listed as such because they are completely new features and not just fixes of existing features or bugs.

Now if the post was "SE Please understand that leves are not MEANINGFUL enough" we would be having a different discussion.
Jesus you're like a slightly more obnoxious Fynlar.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 10:10pm by bsphil
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#30 Dec 22 2010 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
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What's killing me with this game is how there's not much partying going on outside of ls static parties. I miss party exp camps so much. Leves are too boring, even in groups. All I do in this game is log on and craft to maintain my retainer business. When is combat going to be fun? I have a nice conjurer setup with nothing to use it for.
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#31 Dec 22 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
I kind of agree with the OP.

I consider the leves to be part of the infrastructure of this game. Square Enix actually intended for us to do leves as an alternative to grinding. What this game needs now is non-essential content such as side quests, mid-level events, etc. That said, I think guild leves could someday fill that void, but SE needs to get more innovative. Think in terms of assault missions from FFXI.

Anyway, lack of true content is what's keeping this game from getting my A grade. That said, I have complete confidence the content I seek will be added very soon.


I'm hoping for a new style of quest next patch. I'll happily take more leves though, if that's all we get.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 12:04am by Jefro420
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#32 Dec 22 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Therefore, LOGICALLY speaking again, anything CONTAINED within FFXIV is, BY DEFINITION, content.


In the same way that if everyone is complaining that the game really needs more bats (as weapons to hit things with), and you point out that there are already lots of bats (as flying, fanged monsters), yes, you're right.

Your point was pedantic and worthless. Words have multiple meanings, and generally you can infer from context which meaning people are using, unless you're a tard.
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#33 Dec 23 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Good
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I agree but I do think the content will come, just like it did in ffxi. I'm just surprised the game didn't start with more content right out of the gate.

At least they are fixing the annoyances that prevented me from wanting to even long on and grind out some leves. The game isn't half bad now, in short bursts.
#34Pherocious, Posted: Dec 23 2010 at 1:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) new leves? what new leves?... i haven't seen any new leves... im rank 10ish... and i see no new leves... all the same crap from day 1 of release...
#35 Dec 23 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Therefore, LOGICALLY speaking again, anything CONTAINED within FFXIV is, BY DEFINITION, content.


an npc standing in the corner that does nothing says nothing never moves anywhere and no reason to ever talk to him and offers nothing when you do talk to him...



IS





NOT





CONTENT...
#36 Dec 23 2010 at 2:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
new leves? what new leves?... i haven't seen any new leves... im rank 10ish... and i see no new leves... all the same crap from day 1 of release...


Hmm. Maybe if you had been doing leves from day 1, you'd be Rank 40+ by now and you'd see a full variety of leves at all camps, but no - you're still stuck at the 3 basic camps.

Instead you're still crying there isn't Rank 10 content. Really, cause MMOs are chock full of content for the ranks you can get within 1 hours time. I was doing end-game raids at Level 3 in WoW right out of the gate. Also, at Level 6 in FFXI I was invited to several HNM Linkshells to claim bot Leaping Lizzy in a full alliance.

I don't see myself as a so-called "White Knight" around here (I'm pretty skeptical and cynical of SE) but honestly- I can't handle these kinds of ridiculous comments.

Edit: I don't bot, though, so I just leveled to 12 solo so I could go to the Dunes.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 3:01am by Kirutaru
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#37 Dec 23 2010 at 2:28 AM Rating: Good
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I want more guildleves.
I want side-quests.
I want more fun stuff like Behest.

The more activities that I can do that can relieve (or at least honestly attempt to hide) the monotonous grind, the better.
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#38 Dec 23 2010 at 2:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's nothing wrong with the concept of leves. The issue is that there aren't enough of them, the ones I've seen are shallow in the extreme. There's lots of potential in the system, we're just not seeing it yet.
#39 Dec 23 2010 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
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I love the leve system. Just the leves themselves suck b/c you are encouraged to take very easy ones.
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#40 Dec 23 2010 at 3:20 AM Rating: Good
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Pherocious wrote:
new leves? what new leves?... i haven't seen any new leves... im rank 10ish... and i see no new leves... all the same crap from day 1 of release...

/yawn...



Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 2:14am by Pherocious


They added at least 1 new leve per r40 camp for Battlecraft, with new leve card, that's 6. 12 for 4 seperate Special Mission for faction leves. Plus new r20,30 and 40 leves for DoL for every cities that previously dont have, amount to 36. 6 + 12 + 36 = 54.
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#41 Dec 23 2010 at 5:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I can't find the interview, but I swear at one point they said there'd be "hundereds" of leves at launch...
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#42 Dec 23 2010 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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ditx wrote:
I can't find the interview, but I swear at one point they said there'd be "hundereds" of leves at launch...


Every camp had about 5 battlecraft leve, r1-20 3 camps, r30-40 4 camps for each city. That's 5 x 7 x 3 = 105. If you included the Local, Tutorial, Field craft and Faction leve, that's about 200+ at launch >_> so yea there were "hundreds". Doesn't mean any of them were good <_<
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#43 Dec 23 2010 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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I played through to rank 20 missions today and they were awesome...I want more story driven quests and such SE!! :D I think this game is going to be great, the sheer quality of the story quests and the voiced cutscenes was really impressive and the story is very FF esque. I too agree with OP, add more leves SE BUT give us side quests, mini games, stuff to do aside from Leves and Behests (which are honesly not fun in their current state, I barely get a shot in on a mob before it dies). I think an SP fix is coming but more or less closer to the release of the PS3, i think SE doesn't want people getting too far ahead and that's why they haven't come out and said it. This game is starting to shape up nicely and I've played it and quit 4 times now since release but this time is for good, the game has taken leaps since it was released...can't wait 'til next patch, should be really awesome.
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#44 Dec 23 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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I have no qualms about the leve quests, but I do miss getting lost in endless cutscenes from random NPCs' lol.
#45 Dec 23 2010 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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i don't understand how people think that leves are any different than quests. killing ten mobs is killing ten mobs, the only difference is where we get them. i didn't enjoy running all around town looking for start npc. and as far as quests to get airship access or ability to ride chocobo... well, thats like me complaining that i don't get piggyback rides from santa. you can't ask for something doesn't exist :P i'm sure there will be a quest once those things are added.
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#46 Dec 23 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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TempLoop wrote:
i don't understand how people think that leves are any different than quests. killing ten mobs is killing ten mobs, the only difference is where we get them. i didn't enjoy running all around town looking for start npc. and as far as quests to get airship access or ability to ride chocobo... well, thats like me complaining that i don't get piggyback rides from santa. you can't ask for something doesn't exist :P i'm sure there will be a quest once those things are added.


I am about to mention an unpopular game title, so please bear in mind I am not meaning this in a derogatory or negative way, it is just reference.

Before WoW came out these types of "quests" were not really called quests. DAoC called them kill tasks. Small, quick little things you could do a couple times a day to get some quick XP and coin later in the game's life. These kinds of quests were basically simplifications of the quests in, say, Everquest where the NPC told you that some faction needed to be eliminated-- Crushbone orcs, for example, in Greater Faydark. But he wanted proof in the form of belts of their demise. So you'd go and kill them till you got a few belts come back to the NPC and hand them in. To cater to the more "let me just go, kill 10 orcs and be done with it" crowd, the form of quest or task they are in now were (de-?)evolved.

When people from Everquest or FFXI mention "quest" they usually mean something involving an adventure or a story. Not really the go kill 5 moles and 2 flytraps type thing.
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#47 Dec 23 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the concept of leves. The issue is that there aren't enough of them, the ones I've seen are shallow in the extreme. There's lots of potential in the system, we're just not seeing it yet.


Yes, this is how I see it as well. I imagine Leves with 2 hour time limits, a great deal of mobs leading to a boss fight. Expanding on the Leve format can be done in a number of interesting ways.
#48 Dec 23 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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Whenever I hit the next leve range (R13,R23....) I was excited to do the leves in a new camp, but it really gets old fast. I do them "just because they're there" now and am not looking forward to new ones. The items I get are hardly appropriate for my class, I already have more gil & reputation than I need as well as guild marks, and the leveling is slower than in Behests.

As hard as I tried, I cannot view them like anything other than equivalent to repeatable quests in other MMOs with a random factor for a "Kinder surprise" effect. Key word being repeatable, because that's what they are.

Unless you do battlecraft leves for different ranks, local, reputation and fieldcraft respectfully each reset it really can be as tedious and feel like a chore as much as a regular grind.
#49 Dec 23 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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Briker wrote:
Whenever I hit the next leve range (R13,R23....) I was excited to do the leves in a new camp, but it really gets old fast. I do them "just because they're there" now and am not looking forward to new ones. The items I get are hardly appropriate for my class, I already have more gil & reputation than I need as well as guild marks, and the leveling is slower than in Behests.

As hard as I tried, I cannot view them like anything other than equivalent to repeatable quests in other MMOs with a random factor for a "Kinder surprise" effect. Key word being repeatable, because that's what they are.

Unless you do battlecraft leves for different ranks, local, reputation and fieldcraft respectfully each reset it really can be as tedious and feel like a chore as much as a regular grind.

OMG, you just reminded me of "Kinder Eggs", I loved those things when I was in Germany. For those that don't know, they're chocolate eggs with a toy inside. The chocolate is delicious too. :)

...back to the topic at hand. :)
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#50 Dec 23 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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There’s quite a bit of tripping over semantics in this thread, hehe. ;)

I think we need to make a distinction between content by definition and the kind of content we want more of. The way I see leves right now, although they can be fun at times, they are basically stripped down versions of the typical side-quests you might find in single-player and multi-player RPGs. Granted, if you look at that type of quest, I realize that the gist of it often remains “Go find such and such monster, kill it and bring me back proof”.

The problem is that when you strip that down to how a leve works, you strip out many elements that help make the world you play in more alive and immersive. Earlier in the thread, someone complained about having to go talk to NPCs to start quests, but right now, most of these puppets with green names around town have no more function beyond simply telling you “I like pie” when you bother talking to them. Right now, Ul’Dah is a big 3D model with a few NPCs (among many) I have to go see repetitively to craft in front of them. That’s not immersion!

Give us more reasons to talk to NPCs and get cool cut-scenes and multi-objective missions from them. Give us more legitimate reasons to actually explore the cities and the land. I guess it would be something akin to the main quests, but perhaps on a less “epic” cinematic level.

I think leves definitely have their place in this game, but I hope to see more of the type of content I just described in the future, along with other innovative ways to quest.


Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 12:04pm by Trellmichel

Edited, Jan 26th 2011 6:48pm by Trellmichel
#51 Dec 23 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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Trellmichel wrote:

Gives us more reasons to talk to NPCs and get cool cut-scenes and multi-objective missions from them. Give us more legitimate reasons to actually explore the cities and the land. I guess it would be something akin to the main quests, but perhaps on a less “epic” cinematic level.

I think leves definitely have their place in this game, but I hope to see more of the type of content I just described in the future, along with other innovative ways to quest.

I don't think anyone could argue with that, but to say that none of the players want more leves is just plain ridiculous.
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