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A Difficult DecisionFollow

#1 Dec 25 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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so i have recently found myself in kind of an interesting dilemma regarding ffxiv. i wholeheartedly want the game to succeed, and i really want to play the game. i just dont want to do it right now. i have grown bored with whats currently available in game which isnt much (and even a hardcore "fanboy or white knight" such as myself cant deny) i really want the game to be a success and to overcome its poor start. i feel some sort of obligation to continue to play and continue to renew my subscription (when necessary) to help promote the game and ensure it doesnt go belly up, but i cant continue to log in on a regular basis with any enthusiasm.

i think at the heart of the matter i just dont have the gusto to play a game at launch. i have grown spoiled with the polished super saturated content of other mmos like XI and WoW. i am 100% confident i will be back in the future after xiv has been able to settle a little more and makes a bit more progress, there just arent enough carrots on the end of my stick to keep me going currently.

is anyone else experiencing this problem? theres no real need to go in depth about the faults of the game, we are all well aware of them, and i know they are improving the game and adding new stuff just about every week but i still cant do it. im strictly asking if there are others who really really deep down support the game but are considering leaving or taking a break.


p.s. as i said i really really want to play, and this post is in no way meant to be a jab at the game.
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#2 Dec 25 2010 at 12:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Updates have been consistent, although not exactly what I expected or required (for my personal gaming experience)

I am on the fence, though I do suspect I will give them at least 1 billing cycle as a reward for all the extended free time.

My sage advice? ***** you melee char, or at least only worry about an SP level in the 40's and get your crafting classes leveled up. Come ps3 release we will be granted with a whole stable of new players whom we can exploit for our own personal gain. Muahahahahahahaha (choke... cough... gasp...) I mean it seems like things are moving forward, albeit slowly. The new team gives me a shade of faith plus coming from a programming background I can see where they need a minute to get their feet under them


-Teeg
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#3 Dec 25 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well payment will not be an issue for at least another month or two, so it's not like you can't just take an extended break. Even though I am still having fun playing, I can see that being a possibility for me in the future.
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#4 Dec 25 2010 at 1:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm on the fence myself as well. I also have enough of a background in software development to know that the changes we've been asking for don't happen overnight, and I have enough of a business background to know that any time you make dramatic changes to leadership, there's a hiccup in production. The tragedy is that there's three things keeping me around right now:

1) The guy behind the game as it currently exists has resigned.
2) They're not charging us to play.
3) The new leadership hasn't had time up to come up with (much less communicate) a plan for the game.

Notice there's nothing in there about any aspect of the game I like so much that it's enough to keep me around?

There are some things I dislike about the game that can be attributed to SE not having had enough time. There's no point lamenting it or condemning them for it now. I do my best to overlook those things recognizing that they'll be addressed in due time.

What I'm really having a hard time with right now are things that bother me that have nothing to do with an expedited release. I'm coming across too many things that make me say, "That's supposed to be fun?" There's just too much in the game right now that should have never made it out of the planning meeting. I'm interested to see what Yoshida will bring to the table, but I'm already looking around to see what else is around the corner. I'm not one to be swayed by the media but man...you watch some of these podcasts and reviews and blurbs from people playing other games or in the beta for other games and they're having fun. They're enthusiastic. They're excited. Even when the NDA was in effect for FFXIV it was relentless complaining and criticism. It was a series of, "they'll have this fixed for retail" and/or "I sure hope they change this for retail."

And everyone who talks about new games coming out and has happened to have played FFXIV talks about it like the new game is their reprieve from the lunacy that is SE's latest creation. After a while I can't help but feel a little envious that these people get to be excited about something and I'm dumb enough to keep playing this piece of trash.

I'm needing to see something from Yoshida by the end of the first week in January or I won't care how long extends the free trial. I won't be sticking around.

Edited, Dec 24th 2010 11:50pm by Aurelius
#5 Dec 25 2010 at 2:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
What I'm really having a hard time with right now are things that bother me that have nothing to do with an expedited release. I'm coming across too many things that make me say, "That's supposed to be fun?" There's just too much in the game right now that should have never made it out of the planning meeting.


Out of curiosity, what would those be? (no sarcasm intended, I'm jut curious).
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#6 Dec 25 2010 at 5:37 AM Rating: Good
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I agree with the OP. I've logged everyday since collectors edition and since a few days ago I'm completely burnt out. I want to play but leves are getting old. I'm 38 mrd and still a long way from NM mob content. Quests are few and far in between. I have 5mil gil and can repair all the gear I'm using. I feel like I've already experienced all this game was meant to offer. Beside riding a mount to my leves and taking a ship beside using my 70+ ani to teleport like what else is there? And finding all these awesome steam deals with 2010 games going for 85% off I find my attention going else where. I'm sure I'll relog when ff14 has something really worth while to offer.
#7 Dec 25 2010 at 5:44 AM Rating: Decent
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This just in:

FFXIV is free to play until further notice!

A difficult decision would be paying for service in the current state of the game. Paying, and therefore losing something in hopes that what you put in will pay off for in the end after all adjustments are made. If you play a game that charges you nothing and end up not doing anything you haven't lost anything but your time, which by using to play a MMO game, isn't very important in the first place.

I too hope FFXIV succeeds. But I wouldn't lay down a dime for a sub fee in its current state. Havign FFXIV installed on my machine and logging in to update the client until it gets to the point where i'll start to really enjoy the game isn't a difficult decision, it's the easiest.
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#8 Dec 25 2010 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eh.. I might as well say my two cents about the game..
As a player who cannot allow herself to play all day.. I'm having fun..
Maybe it doesn't have much content yet.. but this is the only MMORPG that allows me to relax back without worrying that I'll be left behind.. and I like that..
I hated so much the requirements in terms of equip, time and number of people to do things in FFXI..

You wanna do this quest? Well too bad you need 10 more people..!
Oh looks like you managed to find a few people to help you, that's great..! Too bad half of them has to go whenever you manage to get the required number..


This NM drops a very nice item.. but to get it you'll have to camp it for 20 straight hours, compete with 10 other players who are obviously smarter than you because they have bots camping for them while they're out having fun with their friends, and in case you claim the NM, just pray to whichever god you worship that the ridicolous drop rate will grant you that item instead of a measly rat tail..
Whoops.. it seems that your prayers were unanswered and you obtained a rat tail.. go back to camping your NM and good luck for the next time.. :D


But in FFXIV I can do anything in any way, I can choose to solo, and I'm not forced to have Sniper's rings(This is an example.. it took me ages in FFXI to get those rings because of the price...) because elitist linkshells and parties require them..


Edited, Dec 25th 2010 7:31am by KaineGestalt
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#9 Dec 25 2010 at 6:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm still trying to enjoy this game, which to me signals that the November and December updates weren't near enough to make XIV appeal to anything but a very niche, hardcore playerbase. I never had to "try" to enjoy FFXI, it just happened naturally. I've even gotten into a strong LS, which makes a difference, but I still find the experiance to be seriously lacking.

I sort of feel like they timed the whole Tanaka/Yoshida switch & readjusting of the development team announcement when they did.. Because they knew the updates over the past couple months wouldn't alone save the situation. So they throw all those changes at us, and ask for more time =(

Unless this "new" team starts taking things in a direction that I feel good about, it's only a matter of time before I give up and go back to XI.
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#10 Dec 25 2010 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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Still having fun here, but then again, I am a simple person.

Time will tell, and thats something I have plenty of I suppose.
#11 Dec 25 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm finding myself playing les and les every day, today i logged and played for 30 min, even though i have like 3 hours of free time to play.
doing guildleves then localleves every 36 hours is not fun at all,there is nothing else to do.


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#12 Dec 25 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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OP, don't worry too much. Many of the people who like the game echo the same feelings, Including me and my girlfriend. The game is free to play though so don't worry about taking a break. I admire that you are still willing to support the game and i think that is all that matters. Strategies i would take would be to cut down on the hours you spend on the game or playing the game in a different way. Just remember to keep sending feedback through the official form and we will see the game evolve into something amazing.

There's nothing wrong with taking a break.
#13 Dec 25 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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IMHO. When all is said and done, I feel the people that played the game through its darkest hour will feel the truest and purest form of appreciation for what the game becomes. That being said, I can completely understand that if something isn't fun for you, then why do it? I also feel that enjoying the game for what it is now is going to make all the changes that much more exciting =)(for me)
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#14 Dec 25 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
It was very hard for me to quit FFXIV and i was there since the first day. I loved the game and never listened to complaining stuff. Then the stuff finally started to get me little by little ( sp nerfed, pt system as good as solo, having to craft everything to make 1 craft, repeating dailes, lack of traveling features, stupid anima system...)

On day while doing a series of leves i decided to count the amount of time that would take me to do a single leve from uldah to broken water. It took 38minutes. This day I realized how bad designed this game was. I remember parking my character for another season of doblyn sp farming and never came back.

FFXIV was a fail. From the copy/pasted maps that makes exploring the most dull experience i've ever seen in a MMORPG world to lack of qusts to know NPCs and their stories, lack of interaction with players with the party and sp system. The lack of an auction house, chocobos, airships. FFXIV is an empty game. It has almost no content and whatever exists so far is created by imagination of players, the sane ones and the fanboys.

This game is so bad that even the editor who managed to talk about the game in ZAM didnt care to play much himself. Lack of job responsability or not, The game so far only appeals to players as the name it has from its past. The amount of time lost doing absolutely nothing in the game makes that intro from square "word of advice, dont forget about your parents, social life and friends" a slap in the face.

This game is dead. Dead in a meaning that it wont ever have a healthy population when the white knights give up on such amount of crap and moves to star wars or dc online or guild wars 2. I saw what happened to Everquest 2. I never imagined though FFXIV would be so much worse.
#15 Dec 25 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
What I'm really having a hard time with right now are things that bother me that have nothing to do with an expedited release. I'm coming across too many things that make me say, "That's supposed to be fun?" There's just too much in the game right now that should have never made it out of the planning meeting.


Out of curiosity, what would those be? (no sarcasm intended, I'm jut curious).


A lot of the quest designs (not leves, class/mission quests) are just bad from a flow point of view. As in...really bad. I kind of wish someone could get it through to SE that spending half an hour running for a 2 minute quest scene does not make for an entertaining game. I just ran into a particular quest last night that sent me to one of the villages in Coerthas and when I get there I'm treated to a one minute cutscene and then told via NPC linkpearl to bring something to someone at a nearby location. Only it didn't tell me what I needed to bring until I was already in Coerthas, so for having not gone and read a guide/walkthrough regarding the quest prior to attempting it, I would have had to spend an extra 40 minutes or so running back and forth from Coerthas <-> Gridania for this stuff. As it was it only cost me 13 anima to get it all done the "fast" way. Yippee.

I came across another quest a while ago where, after talking to an NPC, I received my instructions to run off to the three corners of nowhere and perform the quest requirements only I didn't realize that after getting the instructions from the NPC and being fairly clear on what it was I had to do, I had to talk to the NPC a second time in order for them to mark my destinations on the map and without those markings, the quest wouldn't properly activate and I'd be unable to complete it.

These are things that are conscious design choices, not rush-rush git 'er dun omissions.

The crafting system has been a persistent irritation to me ever since I started pushing towards rank 20 with DoH classes. Prior to that, everyone gets the softened version and then when you start getting towards rank 20+ recipes the full force of SE's mind boggling game design beats you about the head and chest. And because it's random, sometimes you get the good streaks where you feel you're having some fun (albeit extraordinarily repetitious fun) and then BAM! Moon phase changes or the RNG simply takes a dump all over you for several synths in a row. The game has been shut down via red 'X' more than once on account of this stuff and it's just **** poor design.

SE can have their stories and have their quirky mini-games and restrict the "good" stuff via low HQ rates and do all that crap they think they need to do as long as they focus their attention on the core mechanics of the game being fun. That's all they need to do. That's all I'm asking them to do. Keep the base mechanics fun. But they don't. As far as crafting goes, the "real" DoH game starts at rank 20+ and it's at that point you realize that SE has thrown in all of these headaches and annoyances and then put a rather substantial grind ahead of you via ranks and guild marks just to clear the crap out of the way. Backwards. To me, the ideal is to tune it so that it's deep and challenging but you're given the tools to overcome those challenges and not just watch helplessly as the thunderstorm that just appeared over your half-cast ingot rapes your face. And then as you progress through the grind...if SE were smart...it would just get better and better. You'd look forward to Brand of Face-raping Thunderstorm not because it takes away a substantial irritant but because it includes an animation of you ************* the thunderstorm with the Rage of the Lalafels and turning it into a small bonus of lightning shards upon completion of the synth. Something like that. "I'm looking forward to this because it's just **** cool" as opposed to "I'm looking forward to this because what's going on now eats ****".

Can Yoshida wrap his head around that? I'm getting tired of waiting to find out. And I don't like to be that persistently negative guy here or in game. I don't like to spew vitriolic bile all over my LS mates every time the game starts to get under my skin. It doesn't help me and it sure as **** doesn't enrich their experience. And if it comes to a point where I'm logging in and all I feel like doing is ******** about stuff, that's my queue to give myself and the decent folks around me a break and just stop playing. And unlike FFXI days, if I "take a break" now, I won't be coming back. There are too many other cool things on the horizon and even if those wind up a disappointment, there are other games I could go back to if I really felt the MMO itch that don't involve FFXIV.

And that's the tragedy. In development, I was one of SE's biggest critics. Through beta and into official service I've tried to be objective. I don't want to see this game get shut down like APB whether I end up playing it long-term or not. But three months in playing a broken game is a long, long time in the MMO world. If Tanaka was still in charge, I'd be gone by now.
#16 Dec 25 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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IMHO, playing a game should never be a chore. I know me personally I have a flock of friends who've promised they're going to play when the PS3 version comes out and I play now so I don't have to play catch up with them after the PS3 version comes out. That being said, I've taken breaks from the game and clocked in just for the dailies. I believe anyone playing at this point should call themselves (to some degree) a "fanboy/girl" and when you are no longer a fan then it is time to go. The most common call I've heard is people saying they will try the game again when the PS3 release comes out and I'm sure SE heard that and is running with it. Whatever this game is now, it will not be this way then (it might even be like FFXI and have an expansion to go with it). After committing this much to FFXIV to have a game the players can't support at PS3 launch would be like making a "Spirits Within 2" So I guess in short I say if you don't want to play then don't play (try to get the bad taste of this exp out your mouth), but if you're trying to be a fan then at least keep an eye on it. Who knows? You may even read a good review about it in several months. And if not all you've lost is the time it takes to click onto ZAM...
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#17 Dec 25 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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I still log on every day, and if I can't find anything better to do I go out and level up sub-classes for my PGL. For me, it's win-win getting SP/EXP, new abilities, selling shards/crystals/drops. If I run across a good challenge, I'll take the time to stop and test my skills on it. I do get bored though, just as everyone, but then I'll get off the game for a bit and go out to experience that thing called life. By all rights, it's a good thing you're bored with the game. It doesn't mean you have to quit.
#18 Dec 25 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
Can Yoshida wrap his head around that? I'm getting tired of waiting to find out. And I don't like to be that persistently negative guy here or in game. I don't like to spew vitriolic bile all over my LS mates every time the game starts to get under my skin. It doesn't help me and it sure as sh*t doesn't enrich their experience. And if it comes to a point where I'm logging in and all I feel like doing is ******** about stuff, that's my queue to give myself and the decent folks around me a break and just stop playing. And unlike FFXI days, if I "take a break" now, I won't be coming back. There are too many other cool things on the horizon and even if those wind up a disappointment, there are other games I could go back to if I really felt the MMO itch that don't involve FFXIV.


With the utmost sincerity, thank you for approaching it in this fashion. Contrary to popular belief, there are still many people who enjoy this game in its current state. All too often people take the "I don't like it, and neither should anyone else" approach. Rather than simply removing themselves from their misery, they remain in their LSs or prowl these forums, badmouthing the game to anyone who will listen. Generally speaking, it's absolutely your right to dislike the game, but please do not attempt to ruin it for the rest of us. Remove yourself quietly and go to whatever it is that makes you happy. There's no need to stick around and attempt to recruit "teammates" for your misery. So again, I applaud you, sir, for taking an unselfish approach to this and allowing others to enjoy the game as they see fit. Cudos!!
#19 Dec 25 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
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I get frustrated sometimes... but I just log off and read or do art or write poetry or go over to my girlfriend's house. I understand that part of the reason I can enjoy this game is I simply don't have enough time to get bored with it. I am also (and have always been) the kind of player that likes to rank up a ton of classes - so although I am creeping close to PL cap I don't have any jobs 30+

As it is I don't feel frustrated by the lack of content cause I have so many goals - goldsmith and carpenter to 20, Fisher to 30, Alchemist to 30, THM as high as I can get it... GLA, PUG and ARC... etc etc.

I also spend a fair amount of my in game time trying to help LS mates out... and have a great crew... bleh...

Anyway if you are feeling not super into it there is no harm in taking a break. It is free to play for now - so nothing lost, right?
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#20 Dec 25 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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I think that's my problem also. However, I'm stuck between two worlds. Final Fantasy XI and Final Fantasy XIV. Do I play a game where it's only really concievable to obtain and upgrade my AF3 in abyssea, or do I continue to log in and play Final Fantasy XIV doing the same levels, kill the same mobs, or do other things which don't as much as require anyone to party or do things together.

It may just get to where I don't play either one. I miss FFXI before Aht Urhgan. I don't like beseiged or campaign where I'm forced to battle for an hour or whatnot, cause a lot of the time that's all I get to play is for that hour. I absolutely hate Abyssea. I wish SE would take them back and put that into the trash and instead, implement that in Vana'diel to revitalize the game, not keep adding to its demise. Yes, I said demise. Unless they put value back into the core of the game, we'll keep fleeting to the edges where the new content lies and that's all leaving no reason for any new people to play. It's that way now. Nobody is intrigued to buy FFXI anymore cause they took all the fun out of adventuring together and instead made it into a solo-fest. They can't even sell the game on steam for $4.99!!

"get a ls if you want to party or do missions." <----this statement is a copout. Do you know how many people in my linkshell are too busy partying in abyssea trying to get their AF seals, or spending an enormous amount of time getting their magian trials done out in Valley of Sorrows? I can only name 4 people in the list of about 20 or so that still use the linkshell I am in that actually help people. The others are completely useless, or hardly ever online.

I'm just about done with both games. Waiting to see what FFXIV will turn into vs futile attempts to get stuff done in FFXI.. hmmm.. no thanks to both.

Mo
#21 Dec 25 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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@Aurelius:

I agree with some points you made about the game. The other day I was doing storyline quests, one of them had me run to Black Brush only to be treated to a mini cut scene and asked to run back to Ul'Dah. Now Black Brush is a short run but atleast treat me to something bigger for my efforts - maybe a mini boss and a voiced cutscene, something worth my while...it just seemed to me like it was a drag - as much as I was enjoying the story. Other things that have me scratching my head are small things like have to stop when you sheathe you weapon, its an old mechanic and I see in a lot of SE games but Its sole purpose is to slow you down, I don't see any other reason for it - I know people will be like, "it barely takes a second." True, but these seconds build up over time.

It seems a lot of the things in the game right now are designed to take you as long as possible to accomplish and the sad part is they aren't very rewarding. I keep thinking if SE had thought of making the game "fun" rather than "long" then people would've stuck around...its just stupid thinking on their part and some stupid design choices have cost them. I don't think the game is doomed, I think it has a lot of good merits for that to happen, but they just need to change their mentality on what is fun and what isn't.
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#22 Dec 25 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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I've been taking a long break. I haven't played in a few weeks. I haven't even been posting on Zam. It's just that there isn't enough of an appeal in the game to break into my busy life schedule. The game doesn't have the addiction factor yet, probably due to the lack of content. They are steadily improving the UI and gameplay, which is nice. I'm glad it's still F2P so I can hop on every now and then when I don't have anything else to do. I am a little saddened it's not as glorious as was expected, but I still think it has a chance and I will hold on as long as it costs me nothing.
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#23 Dec 26 2010 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
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I'm in the same boat as Auerlius. All the game mechanics seem to be there only to slow players down or to **** them off. A lot of them are extensions or taken straight out of FFXI, which is still my favorite MMO. But I put up with bad mechanics in FFXI because I had friends playing it, I had quests to do and story to see, and because there was little to nothing else competing for my attention in the MMO market. FFXIV is near desolate, and there's almost no substance to the world of Eorzea.

I can't wait around forever while FFXIV gets its sh*t together. Every time I check Lodestone, I get more and more depressed because nothing interesting is posted. Even previews of upcoming updates seem hollow and without character and without any in-depth explanation or examples. Everything about this game is hollow to me. The Christmas thing FFXIV did was so boring and uninteresting that I didn't even bother logging in to get a unique item, something that I've re-subscribed to MMOs before just to get. I just thought, "why the **** would I want this? Who would even see me with this on?"

Meanwhile, every day I see new videos and new blogs posted of TERA, or Vindictus, or Aion, or WOW, or GW2, or a million other MMOs and non-MMO games that make my mouth water.

EDIT: The worst part is that the Lodestone posts are starting to die out. A month or two ago, there were 1-2 Lodestone posts per day. Now it's one or two per week. This, to me, just screams that things are going slow as per usual over at SE.

Edited, Dec 26th 2010 1:07am by Wolfums
#24 Dec 26 2010 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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Wolfums wrote:

EDIT: The worst part is that the Lodestone posts are starting to die out. A month or two ago, there were 1-2 Lodestone posts per day. Now it's one or two per week. This, to me, just screams that things are going slow as per usual over at SE.

Edited, Dec 26th 2010 1:07am by Wolfums



Lodestone has been getting 2-3 updates a week since it's inception. (with the exception of the first week or two when emergency maint. was posted there.) Most of it has been the FAQs, with Update notes and letters from the devs sprinkled here and there.

I look forward to those updates, I get pretty excited when I see the current date on the headline just hoping it's update notes. They already posted their outline through the first update on 2011. Let them work on what they proposed before they start releasing what else they have in store for the future. I don't want to see regurgitated info every few weeks. Thats just spinning their wheels, When I see an update I want to see progress. I think thats just how they are handling it.
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#25 Dec 26 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Am staying, but not for long, waiting for the new team to tell us what they are going to do to fix the game and when, but I hope they do this ASAP, last night another one of my friends quit the game, I used to party with him all the time, and I have one more staying till he hit 50 and then leave the game till the next big update and he's 47, so this will leave me alone in the game, and in an MMO if you stay alone then you will quit even if you love the game.

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#26 Dec 26 2010 at 1:22 AM Rating: Default
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I love this game even in its current state.

Alot has changed since release they made it easier to get Guild Marks, they added "End Game" content (NM hunting for 15 man R50's grps).

There are enough side quests to keep you busy in between levequests provided you put in the work to get to the required Ranks.

Easy money making in this game playing either as a farmer/seller or a crafter/seller makes the game fun from that aspect.

One could argue that the game is a bit too repetitive when grinding a rank up, but all in all it isnt worse then some other games out there.

I remember when a rank cost over 2.4 million EXP in wow i was like omg are you serious? But the exp came fast. In FFXIV the SP seems to come fast enough for me and I rank up at about the same rate as i did in wow and some other games also.

As for the fun aspect, its all about what your willing to do, do you start a party and go grind or leve quest or do you go out solo. If you solo youll kill roughly the same amount of mobs as in a group but youll have less "fun" because ther ewill be more stress involved stress is a downer for some people, myself included. If you wait for a party nothing gets done and you could feel negative afterwards potentially ruining a nights play. Start a party find a LS that does stuff or has casual players anxious like yourself to do something together.

You could troll the forums like me in between a 5 minute respawn of some fat lewt dropping monsters.
So many things can be done to enhance gameplay. But depending how you play this game it can be played differently to enhance it as with all games.

Tweak your UI make new friends use unnecessary amounts of macros. Set small goals, think the next 2k not 20k.

Most of the promises they made about the game have been taken care of.
The rest will happen soon SE will not let this game fail.







Edited, Dec 26th 2010 2:28am by cornyboob
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