Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3 4
This Forum is Read Only

Hitting the Proverbial WallFollow

#1 Dec 27 2010 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
I've noticed over the last week or so that I seem to have run into the brick wall that is leveling past 20. I'm definitely a bit more than a casual player but not insanely hardcore, I have glad and sentinel to 33, 4 crafts and 2 DoL above 20, and the rest sitting at 10+.

What I've noticed is that in all 3 different leveling situations (DoW/DoM, DoL, and DoH) I've started to just hit that wall where I see such minimal progress for a LOT of work. I played off and on (mostly on) for about 9 hours yesterday. In all that time, here's what I gained: a HALF a level of glad/sent, 3/4 of a level on my armorer (22.5-23.75), and a few thousand SP on each of my other crafting jobs, and about 2-3k each on miner and bot. Is it just me or does that seem a little bit outrageous? Isn't this supposed to be a more casual friendly game?

Perhaps I'm just looking at this wrong, or DOING something wrong, but I feel like I'm just treading water in this game. I also feel like the grind here is even WORSE than the grind was in ffxi. I really wasn't looking for a game like this. While I don't want a WoW clone where levels come like water, I also don't want to feel like it will take me years just to GET my classes up to r50, and that's how I feel now.

Don't get me wrong, I really and truly enjoy this game for the most part. I like crafting, I like fighting, and I like gathering. I just don't like doing them for hours and seeing such minimal results. It's very disheartening when I can play all day and not gain a SINGLE level in gladiator, especially when I focus on it for 3-4 hours. It's not like I'm right near the cap where I'd expect levels to take longer. I'm at 33, slightly over 65% of the way to the cap. I've still got a full THIRD to level through.

I also really don't appreciate all the restrictions put in this game. I can level whatever I want whenever I want! Well, not really. If I level TOO much of one thing, I run into a wonderful "bonus". If I try and craft in 1 profession, I run into the fact there are only 1-2 leves that will give me SP since most of them are still r1-5. If I want to craft outside of leves, I run into lack of shards/crystals very quickly (it's not as bad now, but when a single rank takes 150-200 synths each of which use 15 or so shards, its still an issue). Or I can go mine and log, but oh wait, if I do THAT for more than an hour or 2, I seem to run into some invisible wall that nerfs the **** out of my ability to pull up ores and logs.

I guess I just really fail to see how this is a "casual game", other than the fact that it caters almost exclusively to solo play. I'm getting really frustrated with the grind and lack of being able to do what I want when I want. I'd really like someone to play devil's advocate here and make me see the other side, as I'm having a hard time doing it myself. =/
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#2 Dec 27 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
So in 9 hours you made somewhere along the lines of 40k SP? Well, lets take some of this away since you were "Mostly" on.

So in 6-8 hours you made 25-45k SP?

Thats 5-8k an hour.

Sounds about right.

Try Sticking to 1 class and working on 10k an hour.


At 10k an hour, You can level once every 3 hours all the way to 30. At which point it takes 3-5 hours per rank.


Sounds fine to me. I got from rank 32 to almost 35 glad yesterday at 15k sp per hour in a group of 3. Works fine, maybe you weren't efficient. Factor in your running time and you were doing just fine. Probly seems like a lot less because you spread it out over a bunch of classes.

Work on 1 class. This way you can see your progress and it seems more substantial.

Edit: A note on your surplus comment:

Yes surplus sucks. I hit surplus on 5 jobs this week before reset. But as for not giving you the OPTION to level through it is absurd. I took the 10% hit on gladiator yesterday for nearly 40k SP (I would have gotten 44k, woohoo?)

Its not as bad as people are making it out to be...

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:47am by DoctorMog
#3 Dec 27 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,566 posts
Sadly, it's "casual" because those that fall under the casual banner will never encounter these walls. Casual folks will log on, do a handful of crafting leves, maybe to fieldcraft then hammer out those battlecraft leves and maybe a behest or two. And that's on a day they're really committing to the act. Though I do concur with the notion that many casuals will loose interest 20+. Indeed it's not a race to 50, but a casual gamer can spend months in the 20s and end up asking themselves "what's the point?" They'll never see the bulk of the game's content.

Instead of keeping the road to 50 this difficult, SE should make use of their lateral leveling system. Someone wants to be the ultimate tank? Give them a reason to level most DoW/Ms into the 30s or 40s. Same for being the best DD or mage.

That was my understanding of how the game was supposed to work. A casual could easily get to 50, but the hardcore players could blow them away with a plethora of high-level abilities from multiple classes. The way it is now, though. No casual will tolerate 30+. It'll just take them too long to focus on.

I feel your pain, though. I want to level Gladiator myself. But I know I need Blacksmith and Armorer to at least 40 so that I can repair my swords and shields, which also requires miner to be self-sufficient. My other choice is Lancer. But that needs Carpenter and a whole lot of undesired results from Botanist. Logs are so impossibly difficult to target that leveling Carpenter has been a leve-only experience for me (but may not be for others).

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by Sephrick
#4 Dec 27 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
You seem to be a supporter of the system in place "no matter what" DoctorMog and I'm gonna have to side with Bart on this one, at rank 23 its taking me so long to get anywhere - unless I'm grinding Coblyns or doing leves/behest, I don't move...even Coblyn grinding takes a long time. As I've said before I'm pretty certain SE is slowing everyone down on purpose, I dunno if they can afford to do this really but it seems they are...hopefully next update fixes party play and SP.
____________________________
MUTED
#6 Dec 27 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
523 posts
Guys, complain all you want, but the system is fine. The issue is YOU. And I will take rate downs to **** for this, but I have NO issue pulling off 2-3 ranks per day.

Try sticking to 1 class for one whole day, check your SP each hour, and you will see what I'm talking about.

10k-15k an hour is what I'm clocking for the last 4 days, and at this rate, rank 30-40 will take me 40 hours.

It's fine.

Switch classes when you hit surplus, take a deep breath.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by DoctorMog
#7 Dec 27 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
447 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
Guys, complain all you want, but the system is fine. The issue is YOU. And I will take rate downs to **** for this, but I have NO issue pulling off 2-3 ranks per day.

Try sticking to 1 class for one whole day, check your SP each hour, and you will see what I'm talking about.

10k-15k an hour is what I'm clocking for the last 4 days, and at this rate, rank 30-40 will take me 40 hours.

It's fine.

Switch classes when you hit surplus, take a deep breath.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by DoctorMog


Completely agree. If you expect R29-30 to take the same amount of time and effort as R1-2, then you're missing the point. It's called a leveling *curve* for a reason; it takes more time as you level up. I fail to see the "brokenness" as well.
____________________________
Djigga, please. Highland Hyurs can't jump.

#8 Dec 27 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
523 posts
Thank you! Some common sense!

SP per kill might not be static, but people need to start looking at SP per HOUR.

Yes, we used to get 500 per kill, but they took 6x as long.

I have been calculating my SP per hour in both the OLD and the NEW system, and the new system IS THE SAME SP PER HOUR.

No, I am no longer in a group of 15 grinding, but I am leveling at the same RATE per hour as before. YES even in small groups.
#9 Dec 27 2010 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
Thank you! Some common sense!

SP per kill might not be static, but people need to start looking at SP per HOUR.

Yes, we used to get 500 per kill, but they took 6x as long.

I have been calculating my SP per hour in both the OLD and the NEW system, and the new system IS THE SAME SP PER HOUR.

No, I am no longer in a group of 15 grinding, but I am leveling at the same RATE per hour as before. YES even in small groups.


TBH, the system as is isn't rewarding, in FFXI we can chain XP and it felt like you were being rewarded for playing good when you managed to chain 4 or 5 mobs and keep the party flow going, in this game its very slow and all we basically do is solo from start to finish. TBH if they want to steepen the SP curve and give us something more akin to FFXI and fix party play, I'm happy with that.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:04am by SolidMack
____________________________
MUTED
#10 Dec 27 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
***
1,566 posts
volta1 wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Guys, complain all you want, but the system is fine. The issue is YOU. And I will take rate downs to **** for this, but I have NO issue pulling off 2-3 ranks per day.

Try sticking to 1 class for one whole day, check your SP each hour, and you will see what I'm talking about.

10k-15k an hour is what I'm clocking for the last 4 days, and at this rate, rank 30-40 will take me 40 hours.

It's fine.

Switch classes when you hit surplus, take a deep breath.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by DoctorMog


Completely agree. If you expect R29-30 to take the same amount of time and effort as R1-2, then you're missing the point. It's called a leveling *curve* for a reason; it takes more time as you level up. I fail to see the "brokenness" as well.


You're over exaggerating. No one said they want to do 29-30 in a single leve. But to grind a single job for three to four hours should get a person somewhere. If anything, save the "wall" for 40-50.

Again, this game was supposed to be about creating a piecemeal character by leveling multiple classes. I know there's people out there who are 50 already. But they did it by grinding one job in a static for 10 hours a day every day and ignoring the repair system.

And DoctorMog, that's fantastic that you can steadily gain 10-15k an hour. E-peen achieved. The majority of players, however, cannot. The rest of us common folk are relegated to leves and behest because there's just not enough people playing this game for everyone to have a static. And that, ultimately, is the proof that there still is problems with the leveling mechanics. When the game still is having trouble retaining players when all there is to do is level, well, there's only one conclusion to arrive at.



Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:06am by Sephrick
#11 Dec 27 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
523 posts
SolidMack wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Thank you! Some common sense!

SP per kill might not be static, but people need to start looking at SP per HOUR.

Yes, we used to get 500 per kill, but they took 6x as long.

I have been calculating my SP per hour in both the OLD and the NEW system, and the new system IS THE SAME SP PER HOUR.

No, I am no longer in a group of 15 grinding, but I am leveling at the same RATE per hour as before. YES even in small groups.


TBH, the system as is isn't rewarding, in FFXI we can chain XP and it felt like you were being rewarded for playing good when you managed to chain 4 or 5 mobs and keep the party flow going, in this game its very slow and all we basically do is solo from start to finish. TBH if they want to steepen the SP curve and give us something more akin to FFXI and fix party play, I'm happy with that.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:04am by SolidMack


Did you even read my post? How is it slow? Its the same per hour.

You are all looking at 60-80 SP per kill and crying because its less than 500.

Go back, read my post, and understand SP per hour has not changed.
#12 Dec 27 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
Sephrick wrote:
volta1 wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Guys, complain all you want, but the system is fine. The issue is YOU. And I will take rate downs to **** for this, but I have NO issue pulling off 2-3 ranks per day.

Try sticking to 1 class for one whole day, check your SP each hour, and you will see what I'm talking about.

10k-15k an hour is what I'm clocking for the last 4 days, and at this rate, rank 30-40 will take me 40 hours.

It's fine.

Switch classes when you hit surplus, take a deep breath.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by DoctorMog


Completely agree. If you expect R29-30 to take the same amount of time and effort as R1-2, then you're missing the point. It's called a leveling *curve* for a reason; it takes more time as you level up. I fail to see the "brokenness" as well.


You're over exaggerating. No one said they want to do 29-30 in a single leve. But to grind a single job for three to four hours should get a person somewhere. If anything, save the "wall" for 40-50.

Again, this game was supposed to be about creating a piecemeal character by leveling multiple classes. I know there's people out there who are 50 already. But they did it by grinding one job in a static for 10 hours a day every day and ignoring the repair system.

And DoctorMog, that's fantastic that you can steadily gain 10-15k an hour. E-peen achieved. The majority of players, however, cannot. The rest of us common folk are relegated to leves and behest because there's just not enough people playing this game for everyone to have a static. And that, ultimately, is the proof that there still is problems with the leveling mechanics. When the game still is having trouble retaining players when all there is to do is level, well, there's only one conclusion to arrive at.


Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:06am by Sephrick


Im not doing anything fantastical, I go find a camp, I get some soda, some peanuts, and I kill things for 3 hours. Then I stop, take a break, get some dinner, and do it again.

There is no e-peen or magic going on...
#13 Dec 27 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
*
82 posts
DoctorMog wrote:


Did you even read my post? How is it slow? Its the same per hour.

You are all looking at 60-80 SP per kill and crying because its less than 500.

Go back, read my post, and understand SP per hour has not changed.


So, you kill more to get the same SP? That makes perfect sense! :D </sarcasm>

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:08am by Faladis
____________________________
Currently seeking active Melmond LS, even if it's just for conversation during game play.



Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

Rate sideways. It's the solution to everything.
#15 Dec 27 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
523 posts
Faladis wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:


Did you even read my post? How is it slow? Its the same per hour.

You are all looking at 60-80 SP per kill and crying because its less than 500.

Go back, read my post, and understand SP per hour has not changed.


So, you kill more to get the same SP? That makes perfect sense! :D </sarcasm>

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:08am by Faladis



500 per kill, 10 mobs. 1 hour = 5k SP

100 per kill 50 mobs. 1 hour = 5k SP

What confuses you?

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:13am by DoctorMog
#16 Dec 27 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
89 posts
I have to agree the SP system is broken. Here is my reason for it. I take on a RED mob on a rank 10 job and get 250 SP, ok seems good. Take on a RED mob at rank 20 and get 108 SP...that would be BROKE. I should get just as much SP from a RED mob at lvl 1 as I do at lvl 50. As for Party SP...well thats even worse. A yellow mob (thats with everyone around to get a real read) should NOT give the same or less SP to a party as someone would get from a BLUE going around solo. The SP isnt only broken it's stupidly broken, it is something SE needs to get fixed VERY quickly, and way faster then getting the silly little copy and pasted events from FFXI over to us.
#17 Dec 27 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Thank you! Some common sense!

SP per kill might not be static, but people need to start looking at SP per HOUR.

Yes, we used to get 500 per kill, but they took 6x as long.

I have been calculating my SP per hour in both the OLD and the NEW system, and the new system IS THE SAME SP PER HOUR.

No, I am no longer in a group of 15 grinding, but I am leveling at the same RATE per hour as before. YES even in small groups.


TBH, the system as is isn't rewarding, in FFXI we can chain XP and it felt like you were being rewarded for playing good when you managed to chain 4 or 5 mobs and keep the party flow going, in this game its very slow and all we basically do is solo from start to finish. TBH if they want to steepen the SP curve and give us something more akin to FFXI and fix party play, I'm happy with that.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:04am by SolidMack


Did you even read my post? How is it slow? Its the same per hour.

You are all looking at 60-80 SP per kill and crying because its less than 500.

Go back, read my post, and understand SP per hour has not changed.


Quit yapping man. I'm not crying about 80SP per kill in relation to 500SP per kill, I barely even played the game before the PS "fix", I'm just saying it doesn't feel rewarding...did you read my post?

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:19am by SolidMack
____________________________
MUTED
#18 Dec 27 2010 at 10:18 AM Rating: Default
*
82 posts
DoctorMog wrote:

500 per kill, 10 mobs. 1 hour = 5k SP
100 per kill 50 mobs. 1 hour = 5k SP


This right here. Why not:
500 per kill, 10 mobs. 1 hour = 5k SP
500 per kill, 50 mobs. 1 hour = 25k SP
Rank 1>2 = 5k SP
Rank 9>10 = 25k SP

Spend that hour, get a rank. SE said FFXIV was NOT going to be a timesink, yet their system has done nothing but further the timesink principle in the game.

Changing the SP you get per kill based on rank is screwy as it is. What's worse is that it makes FFXIV's leveling system even more of a steeper curve for players that can't be on 24/7 by increasing the amount of SP you need for a rank up.
____________________________
Currently seeking active Melmond LS, even if it's just for conversation during game play.



Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

Rate sideways. It's the solution to everything.
#19 Dec 27 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
991 posts
Want a more rewarding leveling system? do what i do

level your fighting jobs according to your crafting schedule

find and kill mobs that give exp, AND crafing materials(such as right now im making ethers, so im killing more fungus and sheep/puks)


also, the exp per hour is about the same as it was before, barring a few abusive strategies people used up at the top.

if you were getting 500 kill before it was because you made the battle stretch out, and in the time you got 500 before, you get 500 before now by killing a few mobs in the time it took you to kill the 1 before.
this same arguement was had back in 11 when people compared killing stuff for 200+ per kill, slowly, compared to killing a ton of small stuff at 80-100 per kill and massively chaining them. so many people kept saying no matter how you look at it 200>80, but in the end, it isnt when that 200 ended up being 50k per hour when the 80 ended up being 30k+
____________________________


#20 Dec 27 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
523 posts
SolidMack wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Thank you! Some common sense!

SP per kill might not be static, but people need to start looking at SP per HOUR.

Yes, we used to get 500 per kill, but they took 6x as long.

I have been calculating my SP per hour in both the OLD and the NEW system, and the new system IS THE SAME SP PER HOUR.

No, I am no longer in a group of 15 grinding, but I am leveling at the same RATE per hour as before. YES even in small groups.


TBH, the system as is isn't rewarding, in FFXI we can chain XP and it felt like you were being rewarded for playing good when you managed to chain 4 or 5 mobs and keep the party flow going, in this game its very slow and all we basically do is solo from start to finish. TBH if they want to steepen the SP curve and give us something more akin to FFXI and fix party play, I'm happy with that.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:04am by SolidMack


Did you even read my post? How is it slow? Its the same per hour.

You are all looking at 60-80 SP per kill and crying because its less than 500.

Go back, read my post, and understand SP per hour has not changed.


Quit yapping man. I'm not crying about 80SP per kill in relation to 500SP per kill, I barely even played the game before the PS "fix", I'm just saying it doesn't feel rewarding...did you read my post?

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:19am by SolidMack



Quit yapping? I'm trying to explain my post that you decided to start a conversation about.

How rude... I assumed since you quoted me you wanted to hear my explination, but it seems you would rather just insult me.

Personal attacks are pretty uncalled for, I was making statements based on my experience.

Sorry for trying to help. I'll leave, GL with your SP.
#21 Dec 27 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Thank you! Some common sense!

SP per kill might not be static, but people need to start looking at SP per HOUR.

Yes, we used to get 500 per kill, but they took 6x as long.

I have been calculating my SP per hour in both the OLD and the NEW system, and the new system IS THE SAME SP PER HOUR.

No, I am no longer in a group of 15 grinding, but I am leveling at the same RATE per hour as before. YES even in small groups.


TBH, the system as is isn't rewarding, in FFXI we can chain XP and it felt like you were being rewarded for playing good when you managed to chain 4 or 5 mobs and keep the party flow going, in this game its very slow and all we basically do is solo from start to finish. TBH if they want to steepen the SP curve and give us something more akin to FFXI and fix party play, I'm happy with that.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:04am by SolidMack


Did you even read my post? How is it slow? Its the same per hour.

You are all looking at 60-80 SP per kill and crying because its less than 500.

Go back, read my post, and understand SP per hour has not changed.


Quit yapping man. I'm not crying about 80SP per kill in relation to 500SP per kill, I barely even played the game before the PS "fix", I'm just saying it doesn't feel rewarding...did you read my post?

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:19am by SolidMack



Quit yapping? I'm trying to explain my post that you decided to start a conversation about.

How rude... I assumed since you quoted me you wanted to hear my explination, but it seems you would rather just insult me.

Personal attacks are pretty uncalled for, I was making statements based on my experience.

Sorry for trying to help. I'll leave, GL with your SP.


How did I attack you? lol. If anything I should be insulted, cuz according to you i'm too stupid to have understood your post the first time that I should read it again. Listen, I'm a fan of your videos on decapitation and your strategy techniques and I understand that you enjoy the game but I don't know how you can possibly defend this SP system. Like I said, If they want to steepen the curve, make party grinding viable, and make it more rewarding (akin to XI), I think plenty of people would enjoy that. For the casuals, there's leves, behests, etc.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:27am by SolidMack
____________________________
MUTED
#22 Dec 27 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
534 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
Guys, complain all you want, but the system is fine. The issue is YOU. And I will take rate downs to **** for this, but I have NO issue pulling off 2-3 ranks per day.

Try sticking to 1 class for one whole day, check your SP each hour, and you will see what I'm talking about.

10k-15k an hour is what I'm clocking for the last 4 days, and at this rate, rank 30-40 will take me 40 hours.

It's fine.

Switch classes when you hit surplus, take a deep breath.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by DoctorMog


There are quite a number of us out there who have a jobs, kids, and a life who cannot log on for day long grinds anymore. I also don't remember ever feeling this way playing FFXI, Maybe at about lvl 60 or so it got pretty slow...but it also seemed more "worth it". I could log in at level 53 with my static group and go at it for 3 hours and feel like I made progress. I am in agreement that this shouldn't turn into a WOW 2-3 week quest binge to endgame...but at the rate things are going...I will be lucky to hit 35 on any of my jobs by the end of 2011.

I understand they want to slow down the majority of players due to lack of endgame/middlegame content...but its just another game issue that more and more will eventually give up on and try something else. It would be a good idea if at least they verbally addressed the issue and let us know when it will be adjusted further.

But sorry Dr...it is an issue in today's version of what MMORPG should be. Times have changed and FFXIV did not.
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#23 Dec 27 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
I never said the SP system was wonderful,

Please don't confuse things.

If a new SP system came out, a better SP system, I would fall in love.

However, at present state, the SP system is a pretty steady leveling system that does not "break" at any "rank" and has no difference per hour than the old system. I see too many players crying that its broken at rank 30 and that the old system is better.

I want to show that its not "broken" its just "different" I don't care what they do to the SP system, but as long as THIS system is in place, I will do my best to take advantage of it. I was trying to share some info but people would rather put their fingers in their ears and humm than try and fathom that "different" does not always mean "broken"
#24 Dec 27 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
Simool wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Guys, complain all you want, but the system is fine. The issue is YOU. And I will take rate downs to **** for this, but I have NO issue pulling off 2-3 ranks per day.

Try sticking to 1 class for one whole day, check your SP each hour, and you will see what I'm talking about.

10k-15k an hour is what I'm clocking for the last 4 days, and at this rate, rank 30-40 will take me 40 hours.

It's fine.

Switch classes when you hit surplus, take a deep breath.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by DoctorMog


There are quite a number of us out there who have a jobs, kids, and a life who cannot log on for day long grinds anymore. I also don't remember ever feeling this way playing FFXI, Maybe at about lvl 60 or so it got pretty slow...but it also seemed more "worth it". I could log in at level 53 with my static group and go at it for 3 hours and feel like I made progress. I am in agreement that this shouldn't turn into a WOW 2-3 week quest binge to endgame...but at the rate things are going...I will be lucky to hit 35 on any of my jobs by the end of 2011.

I understand they want to slow down the majority of players due to lack of endgame/middlegame content...but its just another game issue that more and more will eventually give up on and try something else. It would be a good idea if at least they verbally addressed the issue and let us know when it will be adjusted further.

But sorry Dr...it is an issue in today's version of what MMORPG should be. Times have changed and FFXIV did not.


It took me a lot longer to get to 50 in FFXI than it did in FFXIV
#25 Dec 27 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
*
170 posts
DoctorMog knows, see that... rank 50? Two rank 30s? Those are not new either. SP is not broken, but yes it is longer then some would like it and it may be addressed, but if it is purposely slows then I will be efficient as possible when leveling.

Besides, crafting has not changed only DoW and DoM and I think that for the same amount of time DoW and DoM level much faster.
____________________________


#26 Dec 27 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
447 posts
AceAmallie wrote:
DoctorMog knows, see that... rank 50? Two rank 30s? Those are not new either. SP is not broken, but yes it is longer then some would like it and it may be addressed, but if it is purposely slows then I will be efficient as possible when leveling.

Besides, crafting has not changed only DoW and DoM and I think that for the same amount of time DoW and DoM level much faster.


Exactly.

SP was "broken" when it was basically random. We ******** they fixed it.

Now, it's directly proportional to the amount of time you put in.

What's the problem?

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:54am by volta1
____________________________
Djigga, please. Highland Hyurs can't jump.

#27 Dec 27 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
534 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
Simool wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Guys, complain all you want, but the system is fine. The issue is YOU. And I will take rate downs to **** for this, but I have NO issue pulling off 2-3 ranks per day.

Try sticking to 1 class for one whole day, check your SP each hour, and you will see what I'm talking about.

10k-15k an hour is what I'm clocking for the last 4 days, and at this rate, rank 30-40 will take me 40 hours.

It's fine.

Switch classes when you hit surplus, take a deep breath.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by DoctorMog


There are quite a number of us out there who have a jobs, kids, and a life who cannot log on for day long grinds anymore. I also don't remember ever feeling this way playing FFXI, Maybe at about lvl 60 or so it got pretty slow...but it also seemed more "worth it". I could log in at level 53 with my static group and go at it for 3 hours and feel like I made progress. I am in agreement that this shouldn't turn into a WOW 2-3 week quest binge to endgame...but at the rate things are going...I will be lucky to hit 35 on any of my jobs by the end of 2011.

I understand they want to slow down the majority of players due to lack of endgame/middlegame content...but its just another game issue that more and more will eventually give up on and try something else. It would be a good idea if at least they verbally addressed the issue and let us know when it will be adjusted further.

But sorry Dr...it is an issue in today's version of what MMORPG should be. Times have changed and FFXIV did not.


It took me a lot longer to get to 50 in FFXI than it did in FFXIV


Anything is possible if you have a ton of hours to invest. Part of the issue is on my way to 50 in FFXI there were a lot of things to do that "masked" the fact I was still leveling and getting exp. Its just not that way with 14 yet. Someday...yes..hopefully. So the perception is that it takes longer to level since you do not have the filler to help pad the way.

I think I may be done with this game for a awhile. Just talking about it depresses me.
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#28 Dec 27 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
447 posts
Simool wrote:

Anything is possible if you have a ton of hours to invest. Part of the issue is on my way to 50 in FFXI there were a lot of things to do that "masked" the fact I was still leveling and getting exp. Its just not that way with 14 yet. Someday...yes..hopefully. So the perception is that it takes longer to level since you do not have the filler to help pad the way.



OK, so leveling/ranking/earning SP may be BORING, but broken it is not.
____________________________
Djigga, please. Highland Hyurs can't jump.

#29 Dec 27 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,335 posts
Quote:
Now, it's directly proportional to the amount of time you put in.

What's the problem?


I think the problem here is we got exactly what we asked for, just not what we intended.

We asked to be rewarded more for faster killing, and now we are. Unfortunately, the high point in the curve is currently blue mobs solo, duo, or trio.

What we are asking now for isn't another different system, but to change the point on that curve so that it is more rewarding to fight orange and low red mobs, for the challenge, for a 5-6 member party.
____________________________
(clickable sig, see this thread for info)
#30 Dec 27 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
534 posts
volta1 wrote:
Simool wrote:

Anything is possible if you have a ton of hours to invest. Part of the issue is on my way to 50 in FFXI there were a lot of things to do that "masked" the fact I was still leveling and getting exp. Its just not that way with 14 yet. Someday...yes..hopefully. So the perception is that it takes longer to level since you do not have the filler to help pad the way.



OK, so leveling/ranking/earning SP may be BORING, but broken it is not.


Yea...I could agree that. I guess that would be a different discussion as to what everyone's idea of what boring is...
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#31 Dec 27 2010 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
46 posts
When getting ur jobs to 20 u probably burned through ur 200 Guardian Favour pretty fast to begin with then things would have started to slow down as u will be trying to spread ur leves over a few jobs and only picking up 10 GA every 12 hours i think.

I know when i do botanist leves, i used to use GA on r40 leves then Sweat of Brow would kick in, would go from like 400 to 1200 sp per 'Straight Mahogany Log' or w/e. So 400 normal + GA x1/2? = 600 then SoB x2 = 1200. I miss those lol

Also ppl who seem to pop up from nowhere and are like 15 ranks above u r the ppl that battle thru fatigue and surplus, i try to keep up ^^
r47 bot atm.
#32 Dec 27 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
I definitely notice that ranks take longer... but I don't really expect them - even if I play all day. The bar goes up. If I don't rank today, I will rank next time. It is always a pleasant surprise to equip a job and see that I am within striking distance of a rank. Granted, my highest job is R29 ALC but I also don't grind often - I rank up ALC by synthing down drops and stuff in my inventory (when I need more room) - occasionally an LS mate will do something like hand me a mess of leather dye bugs and ask me to synth them down for them and I will spend several hours at it but for the most part I synth a little, fish a little, synth a little, fight a little, behest, synth, behest, fish... etc. I don't spend a lot of time at any one thing so I don't expect to rank up at any one thing.

I find that if I am hungry for some progress a good way to give myself that happy feeling is to either help an LS mate or to rank up a low job. I got like 2 or 3 ranks of goldsmith yesterday. Sure, they weren't "high" ranks but they all fit into my strategy of being able to do things for myself down the line.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#33 Dec 27 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,214 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
Guys, complain all you want, but the system is fine. The issue is YOU. And I will take rate downs to **** for this, but I have NO issue pulling off 2-3 ranks per day.

Try sticking to 1 class for one whole day, check your SP each hour, and you will see what I'm talking about.

10k-15k an hour is what I'm clocking for the last 4 days, and at this rate, rank 30-40 will take me 40 hours.

It's fine.

Switch classes when you hit surplus, take a deep breath.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by DoctorMog


I'm sorry, but looking at your character stats, you are more of an over-achiever than most.
I for instance, when crafting get 150-250 sp per craft. Assuming it's 250, and I am averaging now, what 23k per level at 20, that is 100 synths. Each synth runs about 1 minute, giving me around 15k an hour. That is assuming I am just sitting there pumping out items, and I can hold 100 items on me. More accurately, I am averaging around 8-10k an hour. And that is on a good synth. And assuming I have 1500+ shards for any synth I am working on, and I can handle more than an hour on a craft.

So, in comes my leveling of Gladiator or Conjurer. I can really do parties (I have tried, and lets face it, tank or healing are not realistic in zerg parties), so, I am off soloing on my own. On a good mob I am getting 150 sp a mob, but normally, I am actually ussually at ~100. And I don't fight coblyns (outside of the over camping, and the unmaintainable rate associated with the little buggers for my lifestyle (tending to kids, making meals, helping around the house... so, I also have personal issues that make partying hard enough already). I stick with other mobs that take longer to kill. So, every minute I kill a mob giving me my 6k exp an hour, and assuming a decent drop rate, around a couple hundred shards and a few dozen crystals an hour.

So, I need to fight around 5 hours in order to get enough shards/crystals to be able to gain one level in 2-3 crafts (if they don't overlap too badly with my crystals/shards).

Now I do go out of my way to farm the ingredients I want for my own crafting, and get my own crystals, and I NPC 99% of the stuff I craft for a considerable profit, and again, I am about as much of a poster boy as you are for what a typical user expects, however, I would say we are both two extremes of the same coin, and I am sure most users are somewhere in between.

That in between involves a higher level of personal interaction, and party mechanics. This game lacks that ability right now, and any denial of a lack of party mechanics is an illusion or delusion of what is happening.

There is no way to go out to the dunes, and get in a party, and grind out 5 levels, and be happy with your progress, and meet new people, and walk away with a fun time. Instead, if you are lucky enough to end up in a party, you end up just grinding the crap out of everything in your way, maybe 1 or 2 people will talk during the whole experience, and if you are REALLY lucky, you will have gotten more exp as a group than you would soloing... But not likely.

This does need to get fixed. The player to mob balance is broken, and as a result, party mechanics are broken. This is not a complaint, but a simple observation of what is happening. It would be nice to party with other people. I know most of my old linkshell would be back if we could party together... but instead, the few of us that stayed chat with each other every now and then, but do our own separate thing, as there is nothing we can do together yet.
#34 Dec 27 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, well put.

I suggest if you are grinding for SP, keep that separate from you grinding for items. Doing Both just hurts you SP gain, and your item collection.


You still get items from mobs MUCH lower rank than you are, so my suggestion is to take the time and rank up a battle class, then use that class to farm. Don't farm yourself up a battle class. Not a very effective use of time in my opinion only because killing very weak mobs for mats is much faster than mobs for SP.
#35 Dec 27 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
364 posts
There are always going to be super hardcore and elitist players that prefer (if not enjoy) 10+ hour grinds for a single level. They probably have a storied history with Korean and/or early year MMO's and enjoy it because it keeps the peasants from climbing their mountain, and provides a sense of accomplishment for their 6-12+ hour daily gaming sessions. There's nothing wrong with that, that's their opinion and how they get their jollies. Ultimately though, the success (or failure) of the game and response (or lack of) from the developers will determine who "right" and "wrong", who is the "minority" and the "majority".

Realistically, I don't think any casual player is going to play this game (under it's present curve) past the early 20's, and all but the most hardcore of hardcore will give up between 30 and 40. These pre-patch Vs. post-patch arguments are always the same thing--exaggerations to prove a point. Groups efficient and enterprising enough to pull down 15k/HR under the new system knew how to make 25k/HR in the old system. Personally, for the vast majority of players, I think the rate of progress was ~cut in half with the switch from old and new system. Sometime we give people too little credit, this is not a case big number syndrome. It's pretty obvious when you're spending twice the time to accomplish the same thing.
#36 Dec 27 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,177 posts
Okay, SP gains aren't a problem then.

The ridiculously high TNLs needed to level up classes and physical levels are. Over 1,000,000 EXP to level up your physical level? Really?

Edited for clarity.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:54am by UltKnightGrover
____________________________
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#37 Dec 27 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
991 posts
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Okay, SP gains aren't a problem then.

The ridiculously high TNLs needed to level up classes and physical levels are. Over 1,000,000 EXP to level up? Really?


1mil total to go from 1-50 maybe

but seriously, the increased SP needed per level is only like 2-3k

so you need 2-3k more SP per level, big woop, yes i know it adds up, but a you go, it should take a bit longer each time.

alot of people confuse the word casual and hardcore with meaning "easy to level cap" rather then just easy to do things in general

level capping is not the determining factor for most people when it comes to casual play, casual players take their time, and could care less about the speed they cap
____________________________


#38 Dec 27 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Okay, SP gains aren't a problem then.

The ridiculously high TNLs needed to level up classes and physical levels are. Over 1,000,000 EXP to level up? Really?


1 million? what game are you playing? >.>
____________________________
MUTED
#39 Dec 27 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Default
***
3,177 posts
I saw someone here post the chart in another post. To get Physical level from 49 to 50, it takes over 1 million EXP. That's way too high to be reasonable.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#40 Dec 27 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
I think he was referring to XP not SP. Yeah he was off, but XP tnl is much higher than rank.

On that note however, if you craft you can get more than 1k xp per synth.

If you craft you will get to physical level 50 much faster.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 1:56pm by DoctorMog
#41UltKnightGrover, Posted: Dec 27 2010 at 12:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:57am by UltKnightGrover
#42 Dec 27 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
aaaand it is ridiculously easy to cap out physical XP. Christ I doubt I will have even 1 job higher than R35 by the time I cap out on physical XP.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#43 Dec 27 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
That chart has 3 columns,

rank

sp till next rank

and cumulative total beginning form rank 1.

its not 1.9 mil from 49-50 its 100k from 49-50

Thats the SP chart, not the XP chart.

the xp chart is much, much higher.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 2:04pm by DoctorMog
#44 Dec 27 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
***
3,177 posts
I'm aware of that, they both need lowering in my opinion.

That's what I get for skimming. Second column is cumulative. Okay.



Still, I wouldn't be surprised if both charts get lowered/modified in the future, but I still think it's ridiculous that the EXP tnls for physical level have to be high as well.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 11:18am by UltKnightGrover
____________________________
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#45 Dec 27 2010 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
10 hours @ 10k an hour from rank 49-50.

Could be worse.
#46 Dec 27 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
*
230 posts
UltKnightGrover wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
I think he was referring to XP not SP. Yeah he was off, but XP tnl is much higher than rank.


How was I off? This was quoted from you directly.

DoctorMog wrote:

~~
28~29 33,000 337,150
29~30 35,000 372,150 <- Clearly broken /sarcasm
30~31 38,000 410,150
31~32 45,000 455,150
32~33 47,000 502,150
33~34 50,000 552,150
34~35 53,000 605,150
35~36 56,000 661,150
36~37 59,000 720,150
37~38 62,000 782,150
38~39 65,000 847,150
39~40 68,000 915,150
40~41 71,000 986,150
41~42 74,000 1,060,150
~~


Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:57am by UltKnightGrover


I dont think these numbers are correct. I just checked the Lodestone for me to hit PHYS LVL 38 (currently 37) it says 220k xp... not 782k LOL.... so I would assume most of the other lvls are off as well, including the 40+ lvls which cross the 1Mil xp mark.

EDITING!!:: Just read DcMogs post that was placed as I was typing... what you are saying now makes perfect since... that number if cumulative SP total... understood!

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 2:11pm by edge1006
____________________________
Tre Kensei [Wutai] Lalafell Con/Thaum/Miner/Glad
Perfection Linkshell
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1361071

Treize (Phoenix) -Retired Jan09-
Re-retired again now that I have [Hermes Shoes -1]
DRK75 SMN75 THF75
Alchemy 60 Clothcraft 40
#47 Dec 27 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
523 posts
Made a youtube video with my opinions on the SP system, I hope you all watch it with open eyes and see how I am doing things, maybe take something from it. If not, I thank you for taking the time to watch it anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2twiceQ1dpE

Part 2 is uploading as I write this.

Please forgive the video color for a part of it, it does go back to normal after about 2:30 minute mark of the funky colors.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 2:11pm by DoctorMog
#48 Dec 27 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
179 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
Im not doing anything fantastical, I go find a camp, I get some soda, some peanuts, and I kill things for 3 hours. Then I stop, take a break, get some dinner, and do it again.

There is no e-peen or magic going on...


am not against what you said or anything , but grinding for 3 hours then have a break and grind again? OMG this sounds like work for me and not fun.
____________________________
#49 Dec 27 2010 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,707 posts
It is just perception. If the level cap was Rank 200, but you got SP 4 times faster, everyone would be happy because you would see that glorious "Rank Up" animation more frequently and feel like you were making progress.

Imagine if the cap was Rank 4 and each rank took weeks to obtain. It would feel like the worst grind ever, even though it would pretty much be the same exact thing.

When SE made this game they said hey we want the average player who plays X number for hours per day to be able to max out a class in x number of days. A lot of content and other timing issues are based on that, thus they will pretty much stick to it. If 90% of the population had Rank 50 jobs, there would be even bigger uproars regarding lack of content.

#50 Dec 27 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
991 posts
UltKnightGrover wrote:
I saw someone here post the chart in another post. To get Physical level from 49 to 50, it takes over 1 million EXP. That's way too high to be reasonable.


it does NOT take 1mil exp to go from 49-50 physical

try 380k
____________________________


#51 Dec 27 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
*
73 posts
rfolkker wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
Guys, complain all you want, but the system is fine. The issue is YOU. And I will take rate downs to **** for this, but I have NO issue pulling off 2-3 ranks per day.

Try sticking to 1 class for one whole day, check your SP each hour, and you will see what I'm talking about.

10k-15k an hour is what I'm clocking for the last 4 days, and at this rate, rank 30-40 will take me 40 hours.

It's fine.

Switch classes when you hit surplus, take a deep breath.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 10:51am by DoctorMog


I'm sorry, but looking at your character stats, you are more of an over-achiever than most.
I for instance, when crafting get 150-250 sp per craft. Assuming it's 250, and I am averaging now, what 23k per level at 20, that is 100 synths. Each synth runs about 1 minute, giving me around 15k an hour. That is assuming I am just sitting there pumping out items, and I can hold 100 items on me. More accurately, I am averaging around 8-10k an hour. And that is on a good synth. And assuming I have 1500+ shards for any synth I am working on, and I can handle more than an hour on a craft.

So, in comes my leveling of Gladiator or Conjurer. I can really do parties (I have tried, and lets face it, tank or healing are not realistic in zerg parties), so, I am off soloing on my own. On a good mob I am getting 150 sp a mob, but normally, I am actually ussually at ~100. And I don't fight coblyns (outside of the over camping, and the unmaintainable rate associated with the little buggers for my lifestyle (tending to kids, making meals, helping around the house... so, I also have personal issues that make partying hard enough already). I stick with other mobs that take longer to kill. So, every minute I kill a mob giving me my 6k exp an hour, and assuming a decent drop rate, around a couple hundred shards and a few dozen crystals an hour.

So, I need to fight around 5 hours in order to get enough shards/crystals to be able to gain one level in 2-3 crafts (if they don't overlap too badly with my crystals/shards).

Now I do go out of my way to farm the ingredients I want for my own crafting, and get my own crystals, and I NPC 99% of the stuff I craft for a considerable profit, and again, I am about as much of a poster boy as you are for what a typical user expects, however, I would say we are both two extremes of the same coin, and I am sure most users are somewhere in between.

That in between involves a higher level of personal interaction, and party mechanics. This game lacks that ability right now, and any denial of a lack of party mechanics is an illusion or delusion of what is happening.

There is no way to go out to the dunes, and get in a party, and grind out 5 levels, and be happy with your progress, and meet new people, and walk away with a fun time. Instead, if you are lucky enough to end up in a party, you end up just grinding the crap out of everything in your way, maybe 1 or 2 people will talk during the whole experience, and if you are REALLY lucky, you will have gotten more exp as a group than you would soloing... But not likely.

This does need to get fixed. The player to mob balance is broken, and as a result, party mechanics are broken. This is not a complaint, but a simple observation of what is happening. It would be nice to party with other people. I know most of my old linkshell would be back if we could party together... but instead, the few of us that stayed chat with each other every now and then, but do our own separate thing, as there is nothing we can do together yet.


This post seems to have generated a lot of feedback, which should be enough of an indication that something needs to be done to the current SP system in place. However, there are a few things that I should point out. First of all the argument over pre/post patch SP is kind of irrelevant. We are stuck with what we have until the developers decide to change it, so there is no point in arguing over the advantages/disadvantages of either system. On a personal note; I hated the pre-patch SP system because everybody was competing for SP. It was very unpleasant to be in a party with an Arc and a CON that would pull the mob away from you and prevent you from hitting it and therefore gaining any SP. That may expose my own weakness but i still found it quite frustrating. The second thing that i want to address is party play. Party play can still be rewarding, the difference now is that it solely revolves around Leves and Behests. I've had the most fun in this game just inviting everybody at a particular camp to a behest party and letting loose on all the mobs. I've made lots of friends this way, now have a bigger linkshell as a result, and came away with some pretty good SP. Furthermore, when we can gather enough LS mates to do leves in groups, we pick some choice leves, link them, and raise the stars to 5 if we can. By doing this we get loads of SP that we wouldn't have been able to get solo. So I guess all we can do now is wait for them to put in place a SP system that will be to everybody's satisfaction. Until then grind leves and behests in groups if you want to party or find yourself some cobs if you want to solo.
____________________________




« Previous 1 2 3 4
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 18 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (18)