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What am I missing? Crafting vs. Runestone GearFollow

#1 Dec 28 2010 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
13 posts
First of all, I love this game after the updates. I am only a lowly 26 conjurer but while I am work I tend to do some research for the game in my downtime. I have a few questions about end game gear and was wondering what am I missing. There are several assumptions in this calculation. I will list them at the end of the post so they can easily be scrutinized.

First I want to compare two pieces of gear: Harlequin's Cap versus Vintage Jester's Cap. Here are the stats for each set of gear.

Harlequin's Cap
Def: 42
Mg. Def: 89
Evas: 16
Res: 64
Mind: +4
Piety: +4
Optimal Rank: 50

Vintage Jester's Cap
Def: 39
Mg. Def: 83
Evas: 16
Res: 59
Mind: +4
Piety: +4
Optimal Rank: 46

Now I have read in several threads that +3 will give 3 stars for Def, Mg. Def, and Evasion. Each star is suppose to represent a 5% or 10% increase in that particular stat (read different numbers in different threads). For the sake of this calculation I choose 5% to be conservative. So a Vintage Jester's Cap +3 would be:

Vintage Jester's Cap +3
Def: 39*1.15 = 44.85
Mg. Def: 83*1.15 = 95.45
Evas: 16*1.15 = 18.4
Res: Unchanged
Mind/Piety: Unchanged

I didn't round because quite frankly I don't know if FF14 floors it or raises it to the next integer so I left as is. You can see a +3 cap will yield better stats that gear you get with a runestone. So what am I missing with this new gear?

Here is my list of assumptions:
1. 5% per star and 3 stars per Def, Mg. Def, and Evasion. I have never seen a star on resilence but if the 9 stars can be placed on all 4 stats the math will change on a case by case basis.
2. You can't get +3 runestone gear. You turn in your runestone with some assorted other pieces and get your gear. I'm not aware of any mechanism in which you can get +3 runestone gear. If you can that will invalidate everything.
3. Outside of optimal rank. One thing I don't know how to quantify (haven't read anywhere) is that you will be above the optimal rank of 46 when you are at 50. So hypothetically if you get a 5% decrease in stats for each level above/below optimal rank then the runestone gear becomes better at 50 (because the cap will be -20%). I simply don't know how to quantify this but could change the outcome as well. - This has been answered in post #2. There is no stat degradation for being past the optimal rank only below it.

I do realize I am a ways off from the end game myself but I will get there. Any help would appreciated. I know this is just one comparison but I could compare Harlequin's Action to the Vintage Robe and draw the same conclusion. Maybe this is just a conjurer thing I don't know. I apologize for still being a noob and any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Edited, Dec 28th 2010 12:30pm by RoyalBrayden

Edited, Dec 28th 2010 4:05pm by RoyalBrayden
#2 Dec 28 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
14 posts
I may be wrong, but isn't it very difficult to get a +3 crafting? I have crafted all of my own armor so far (35 gladiator) and have only managed to +1 a couple of pieces - granted I am usually near the suggested crafting rank.

I see the runestone gear as similar to AF from FFXI, they are great pieces to have, but there is a chance there is another (usually difficult to attain) piece of gear that is better than the AF. (NOTE: I know some jobs in XI had "useless" AF)
#3 Dec 28 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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RoyalBrayden wrote:
3. Outside of optimal rank. One thing I don't know how to quantify (haven't read anywhere) is that you will be above the optimal rank of 46 when you are at 50. So hypothetically if you get a 5% decrease in stats for each level above/below optimal rank then the runestone gear becomes better at 50 (because the cap will be -20%). I simply don't know how to quantify this but could change the outcome as well.

Gear doesn't degrade once past the optimal rank, it just doesn't scale up.
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#4 Dec 28 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
13 posts
Melila wrote:
I may be wrong, but isn't it very difficult to get a +3 crafting? I have crafted all of my own armor so far (35 gladiator) and have only managed to +1 a couple of pieces - granted I am usually near the suggested crafting rank.

I see the runestone gear as similar to AF from FFXI, they are great pieces to have, but there is a chance there is another (usually difficult to attain) piece of gear that is better than the AF. (NOTE: I know some jobs in XI had "useless" AF)


You are right, i'm sure. I haven't seen much +3 gear either but I have made several +3 items such as yarn and distilled water. Maybe there is a luck factor involved as well. But it is also difficult to get the runestone gear as well.

Docent42 wrote:
RoyalBrayden wrote:
3. Outside of optimal rank. One thing I don't know how to quantify (haven't read anywhere) is that you will be above the optimal rank of 46 when you are at 50. So hypothetically if you get a 5% decrease in stats for each level above/below optimal rank then the runestone gear becomes better at 50 (because the cap will be -20%). I simply don't know how to quantify this but could change the outcome as well.

Gear doesn't degrade once past the optimal rank, it just doesn't scale up.


Thanks for clearing up one of the assumptions.
#5 Dec 28 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
35 posts
Here's a question that I wonder if the devs thought of or addressed;

As far as is known, the formula for a crafter being able to even attempt repair of an item is
[Item Optimal Level -10 = Minimum Craft Level]. Further, each +1 on an item adds 5 to the minimum level needed to attempt repair, so add 15 levels of skill needed to try to fix an Item +3

If the game would even allow the creation of a Vintage Jester's Cap +3,

46+15=61(-10) for a minimum repair attempt level of... 51?

Maybe there's a provision built in that a R50 crafting class can attempt repair of any appropriate item in the game, but it's at least possible that a few unrepairable items could come to exist in the game (other than by repair NPC) if they haven't made provision for this.

Mildly funny for just about everyone except the player facing the NPC repair bill until the game gets patched if this was unanticipated.
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#6 Dec 28 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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170 posts
KurisimasDay wrote:
Here's a question that I wonder if the devs thought of or addressed;

As far as is known, the formula for a crafter being able to even attempt repair of an item is
[Item Optimal Level -10 = Minimum Craft Level]. Further, each +1 on an item adds 5 to the minimum level needed to attempt repair, so add 15 levels of skill needed to try to fix an Item +3

If the game would even allow the creation of a Vintage Jester's Cap +3,

46+15=61(-10) for a minimum repair attempt level of... 51?

Maybe there's a provision built in that a R50 crafting class can attempt repair of any appropriate item in the game, but it's at least possible that a few unrepairable items could come to exist in the game (other than by repair NPC) if they haven't made provision for this.

Mildly funny for just about everyone except the player facing the NPC repair bill until the game gets patched if this was unanticipated.



They changed repair system to prevent this. That is old prepatch formula. It was changed on Nov 25th I think.
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#7 Dec 28 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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Vintage Jester Cap is not really a crafting gear. It is also a Unique reward from faction leve, you can't compare it to a Velveteen Hat which is purely crafted. Everything Vintage is like a younger sibling to the NM rewards.

And the new repair system had been changed to ensure r50 can repair everything +3.

Edited, Dec 28th 2010 9:46pm by Khornette
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#8 Dec 29 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
KurisimasDay wrote:
Here's a question that I wonder if the devs thought of or addressed;

As far as is known, the formula for a crafter being able to even attempt repair of an item is
[Item Optimal Level -10 = Minimum Craft Level]. Further, each +1 on an item adds 5 to the minimum level needed to attempt repair, so add 15 levels of skill needed to try to fix an Item +3.


As others have pointed out, repairs were made far easier with the Nov 25th patch and don't rely on the formula anymore. For example, I am a Rank 26 Leatherworker, and having received a Skull Eyepatch +3, which is a Rank 33 Item, I'm now able to repair it without running to a Repair NPC.
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#9 Dec 29 2010 at 7:19 AM Rating: Default
35 posts
It's good to know they made repairs easier, but I've been unable to find any distinct mention of that, or what the new formula is for attempting/succeeding at repairing items anywhere on the lodestone's version update patch notes.

Can anyone point me to such info, either on lodestone, or this or any other forum? Not knowing bothers me, I don't like the idea that I won't know until I try to fix something I wear and get the old "lol" message. In fact, I'd gladly dig out the eyes of any random S-E employee with a rusty fork to get the info.
#10 Dec 29 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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9,526 posts
I've only gotten a +3 once on equipment - an elm cane. They are hard to pull off.
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#11 Dec 29 2010 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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to OP
not even +3
take a look at Vintage Haubergeon Vs Templar's Haubergeon
Vintage :
DEF 133
MD 80
EV 24
RES 64
+8 STR +4 DEX +24 ER

Templer
DEF 130
MD 78
EV 28
RES 63
+8 STR +4 DEX +23 ER

SO TEMPLER has more EV but less DEF MD RES and ER
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#12 Dec 29 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
13 posts
daour wrote:
to OP
not even +3
take a look at Vintage Haubergeon Vs Templar's Haubergeon
Vintage :
DEF 133
MD 80
EV 24
RES 64
+8 STR +4 DEX +24 ER

Templer
DEF 130
MD 78
EV 28
RES 63
+8 STR +4 DEX +23 ER

SO TEMPLER has more EV but less DEF MD RES and ER


Yea I didn't even catch that one. I didn't know vintage stuff meant unique which invalidats my analysis from the start but its good to see that some vintage is better than runestone gear without it being craftable. Why would they do that? I don't understand. Since my original analysis is voided does anyone know the answers to Assumption #1 and #2? Do the stars mean 5% per stat, up to 9 stars, and runestone +3 gear isn't possible?
#13 Dec 29 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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9,526 posts
Because dropped gear doesn't HAVE to all be better than crafted gear?

That's probably why.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#14 Dec 29 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
13 posts
I guess i'm just used to that in most mmos the crafting gear is usally just a stepping stone. I guess that is not the case with this game.
#15 Dec 29 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
RoyalBrayden wrote:
I guess i'm just used to that in most mmos the crafting gear is usally just a stepping stone. I guess that is not the case with this game.


I totally understand. I don't care one way or another but it doesn't really surprise me since crafters are full classes there needs to be some carrots that make them worthwhile ranking to cap. If all the best gear in the game is dropped then it really makes crafting kind of pointless, doesn't it? I mean, other than for hobbyists?

I think as long as it stays mixed - some of the best gear being crafted some of it being drops, I will be happy.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#16 Dec 29 2010 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,120 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
RoyalBrayden wrote:
I guess i'm just used to that in most mmos the crafting gear is usally just a stepping stone. I guess that is not the case with this game.


I totally understand. I don't care one way or another but it doesn't really surprise me since crafters are full classes there needs to be some carrots that make them worthwhile ranking to cap. If all the best gear in the game is dropped then it really makes crafting kind of pointless, doesn't it? I mean, other than for hobbyists?

I think as long as it stays mixed - some of the best gear being crafted some of it being drops, I will be happy.


I think that mix is a good thing. Keeping the crafting gear & rare drop/quest gear at least similar then you have multiple options of achieving the same results. So not everyone at rank A class B has to have the required uniform as decided by the playerbase in order to be considered a good class B. Giving multiple options of obtaining the gear is good too. The people who don't want to deal with crafters as much have ways of getting cool gear. The people who don't like the idea of putting up with a series of leves for gear have a similar option in crafted gear.
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