It's not irrelevant. Maybe you're hoping it's irrelevant because acknowledging it would undermine your argument.
I'm not sure what "it" is in this situation. I said WoW's casual gameplay is irrelevant to my point because I'm talking about Square Enix's meaning of the phrase "casual gameplay" when talking about XIV (and relating it to XI). You go on to talk about RPG genre and XIV specifically, but at no point do you attempt to explain to me how WoW's gameplay is relevant to my topic.
You can use WoW (or any game you want) to illustrate a point, but honestly since I'm talking about words that came out of SE's PR department and/or ad campaign about XIV (and contrasting it to their other game, XI) I don't see the relevance of other games.
(RPGs are) about moving forward not for the sake of moving forward but for the sake of experiencing the world and the story and the content. In that regard, XIV is not casual friendly...
You are presenting a totally NEW (and widely used) definition of "casual friendly."
You are exactly the person I am trying to reach out (and strangle with words!).
Your definition is true, but it's not what SE meant when they said "casual friendly."
FFXIV takes a lot of determination to reach the level cap. Can a casual gamer reach that cap if they ONLY play 2 hours a day? Yes. They could. Can you argue this?
Could a casual gamer reach 75 in XI if they could ONLY play 2 hours a day? I admit maybe nowadays in 2008-2010 content (SMN Burn, Abyssea) but 2002-2008 no way. Only Beastmaster (and arguably Dragoon if you weren't a jackass) could hope to get ANYTHING done in 2 hours a day - and they weren't the most appreciated jobs or worthwhile jobs in end game (for most of those years). I would admit by the definition I'm presenting XI's Beastmaster was perhaps casual friendly in XI, but that's about it. That's pretty limiting for an MMO.
...because the content is so little and the grind between snippets of content is so great. I've got one nation mission left before I've exhausted all of the nation mission content currently in the game and in order to get to that mission, I've got to grind for dozens upon dozens of hours on a combat class or do about 1500 synths (at 16 shards/synth).
It takes a long time. Casual players can still attain it, though. Assuming they don't get discouraged by the ridiculous amount of time it would take them to accomplish it. I'm sure most would/do unless they only play for some artificial/personal stimulus like chatting with friends or watching pretty sunsets.
Content? What content? It's not an RPG without content. It's not an RPG without story. It's not an RPG without a progression of abilities and environments and goals. Those are things at the heart of all RPGs, online or off, and those are things that some development studios do well at and some fail horribly at. SE is on the failure side of that.
FFXIV has leves (daily quests) and storyline quests. It's content. Bare bones? Yes, but it's still content. Does it leave a lot to be desired? Yes, it does, but it's content and story nonetheless. This is a real annoying argument right here (the "no content" argument). Yeah, there's not much to work with - I agree - but it's still there. Are people upset that there isn't more or that they can't get it as quickly as they want? Yes and that's why people aren't playing it.
Saying SE fails at story is a matter of opinion. Not really sales. At least, it's hard to argue that sales are a result of failing at story. Content failure, yes, of course. Anyway, I agree with you personally that SE is failing at story for the entire decade 2001-2010 but that's just my opinion (and it hasn't influenced by sales yet but I don't plan to buy XV on release. I want some reviews first, this time, for the first time ever in my life history with FF titles). Anyway, let's try our best to separate facts (financial failure) from unfounded assumptions (story failure).
Agree it is definitely indicative of "content failure" though because if the content isn't good, worthwhile, fun, engaging, entertaining - then it doesn't sell. Fail.
So you can kill mobs around your rank regardless of what rank your combat class is in XIV and that, to you, makes the game casual? SE has succeeded in making a casual game because they've tuned mobs for solo play instead of party play? Really? If the goal is to fill an empty bucket and XI gave you no means to do so without a party but XIV gives you an eye dropper, that makes it casual?
I was saying you're not going to soak up time getting from Point A to B or changing job X to Y or swapping C set of gear with Z set. There are some (possibly unintentional) time sinks in XI that made playing for 20 minutes impossible. XIV corrects this. What you do in that 20 minutes or how much of your bucket it fills is not important (to this definition).
To your definition it is important and with your definition I agree.
It has nothing to do with solo play. As I said before parties before Nov 25 were more popular and I found a party within 5 minutes. Got my stuff together and teleported to said party within another 5 minutes. I would grind anywhere from 20 minutes to 4 hours, but forming a party and getting to it was the least amount of time spent. Try and convince me (no, don't really, cause it would waste everyone's time) that "forming a party" and "getting to the camp" were the shortest amounts of time you spent partying in XI (on average).
People don't party right now and that's an inherent flaw of the SP system. If parties were forming, I'm sure they would form faster and gather faster than XI thus making them more casual friendly. It's just not the way the game is played right now.
I think your definition of casual is extremely narrow. And with your backpedaling and "QQ stop derailing my thread" I think you've rendered your original point moot.
No! You think my interpretation of Square Enix's definition is extremely narrow!
My definition is probably closer to yours. I think artificial time wasters such as gigantic XP curves combined with Surplus/Fatigue or 400 Faction points to get a small chance at a pretty crappy item are terrible, terrible, terrible design choices for a game that "assured us" (though I took it with a grain of salt to begin with) that casuals could have just as much fun as hardcores in XIV.
OBVIOUSLY (lol when people use that word) Square Enix is using a different definition than us and I think I know what that definition is.
I have presented it. I have not back pedaled.
I questioned the integrity of 1 person's assertion.
That you could do all this in a short 30 minute session:
How about more along the lines of 20 dungeons(For all your level range's) Cap lvl dungeons in normal(For the more casual crowd) and heroic version if you want a quick hard challenge, you dont wanna pve ? Fine! You can do normal Battlegrounds, or you can try your luck at the new rated Battleground system, or if you wanna get a few arena matches you can too
I didn't believe that was accurate. Ostia told me it was accurate. I still don't know, but since I don't play WoW (not since 2005) I said I'd take his word for it.
That's not back pedaling, man. It's just challenging facts and then standing corrected. I know that's a rare sequence of events on the internet forums. LOL - Admitting you were wrong and not defending something to the death? Who does that?
Anyway, my original post is exactly what I am still saying. It hasn't wavered.