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Casual & You!Follow

#52 Dec 30 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've been able to excel at this game as a casual gamer. It's a perfect fit for me at this time in my life.
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#53 Dec 30 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kirutaru wrote:

Now people are crying it's not casual or whatever they want, but they also don't like lack of class definition and how partying isn't as tactical or demanding as XI.

I'm taking crazy pills. I simply (and frequently) have no idea what the player base (on average) truly wants. I feel like it's completely conflicting all the time, not even person to person but the same person saying they want two separate things that aren't exactly exclusive.


I don't think these things are necessarily opposites or conflicting. It comes down to a lack of content.

The leveling system as it is will allow people to create the class they want. Problem is, there's no real reason to cobble together various abilities from other classes because every class can solo or party up on standard mobs within it's own skill set.

Once we get some content, people can find the class definition they're looking for by having a reason to focus on piecing together certain abilities. Maybe one Lancer wants to be a DD powerhouse, while another wants to focus on melee enfeebling. One Marauder can focus on tanking while another gets Collusion and Blindside and uses his emnity+ weapon skills to glue hate onto a Gladiator friend. Maybe a different Gladiator wants to focus on some melee hybrid reminiscent of Red Mage with mixing in Thaumaturge spells.

There really are a large amount of combinations that can be done to define ones own character. What it comes down to is who this person plays with and how they fit into that group.

What we need from SE, however, is that casual-friendly content. The kind of activities that a varied group of friends can get together and do on their own accord. I think when people say casual, they don't mean they want an easy button. Just a game that operates on their schedule. Right now, we're all leveling with no goal.

I can't say it enough that the things people want are in the game. SE just needs to put a carrot on their pretty little stick. Right now all we have is the road to 50. People will say it's not about that and that casual players should just be quite with their crafting leves, but how are they not supposed to be frustrated with the lack of progress? The only thing close to a goal in the game right now is to get to 50 to fight a handful of NMs.

This game can cater to both groups of people easily. It's just a matter of putting that kind of content in there. After all, the grind isn't content. It's the work one does to receive a reward (i.e. storylines or access to activities). If all there would ever be is to level, why would anyone ever play?

Gives the casuals fun, short dungeon crawls with decent small rewards. Give the hardcore mammoth HNMs with best-of-the-best rewards. I don't get why this topic is so polarizing. Casual players don't want to eat off the same plate as the hardcore players, but they'd still like to be fed for their efforts.


Edited, Dec 30th 2010 9:24pm by Sephrick
#54 Dec 30 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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This game is very casual, I work 40-50 hours a weeks as a computer animator, takes me a hour and half one way to get to work.. I hit up the pubs onthe weekends and get ******* shop for food and work out.. In three mouths since the release of the game I've obtain 20 pug, 20 GLA, 20 LNR, 20 mar, 21 arm , 12 bsmith, 11 gsmith, 14 mine, 7 cloth, 10 leather, with about one million cold hard cash, granted I know that can easily be trump but I'm **** happy with!

And as for WoW, that game looks like a rainbow puked on it and all the major cities looks like barrn baylee circus..
#55 Dec 30 2010 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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If the OP is arguing the obvious then yes, this game caters to those with a low level of playtime (less than 10hrs a week) in terms of myriad things to do. The combination of leves, teleporation resulting in easy EXP especially is a boon to everyone. I can craft and sell stuff in a relatively short period of time.

The hidden argument is though whether or not the content provided is sufficient or 'fun'. And I'd contend it isn't sufficient especially for the majority. It doesn't matter how casual a game appears or is; if the stuff in game is plain boring then there's a problem.

Plus most people who play MMO's don't play casually. SE is losing out to the 'big middle' of players; those who play sometimes casual, but most times moderate to hardcore. Because of the lack of meaningful, interesting content that, most importantly, gives rewards.

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Just for fun let's play devil's advocate and find ways the game isn't casual:

Market Wards - since their inception they've been more inefficient than an AH (they've since gotten extremely better) showing that if you were casual you'd have to waste a session of time buying an item.

Repair System - You could never repair things yourself; you'd have to rely on others to repair your gear, and this could also take time. You could make friends but this leads me to my next point.

Community - If you're a solely casual player it's that much harder to sustain friendships with those other than your RL friends. There is no time to group up with buddies, which is ultimately the point of an MMO.

This makes a casual game, but without the MMO part.


In the end there's no point of talking about this 'casual' aspect in a vacuum; I agree that it is casual in this respect as most people should (especially compared to FFXI). I'm thankful for these things.

Though casuals (which I believe to be unicorns) as well as every one else needs more content to experience and right now none of us have it.


#56 Dec 30 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the main problem is that for many people the definition of casual friendly is....

Log on for a half hour and gain 5 levels so that i can have the same gear and be just as uber as the hardcore people that have 4 level 50 jobs because its just not fair that everyone has better gear and higher level toons that me. I dont want to have to work for my levels so if it takes more that 30 minutes the game just isnt friendly.

Example of why ffxiv is casual friendly IMO: I hate wasting the masters buff from crafting guild. Call it a pet peave of mine. Because of this fact when I grab the buff to make something, often times, I will sit there and grind until my OCD urges are satisfied. This usually occurs with around 15 minutes left or after around 45 minutes of grinding a skill. What I have realized is that I can pull of around 15000 SP in 45 minutes. At my crafting level (Mid to late 20s)this is about half of a level. I have so many iron nuggets because I do mining and also mining related leves to support my crafts that I quite literally never run out because I am not a hardcore player. I have millions of gil because money just jumps into your inventory in this game so I can always buy more crystals if I run out. There is nothing in this game that requires very much dedication or skill.

Yes this can be a boring day playing the game but the fact is if there is only an hour to play, I can put a good dent in a level. I dont have a single job over 30 so Id say im casual. Once they implement some kind of end game, I will be more concerned with leveling.

FFXIV is very casual friendly...to much so at present, in my opinion
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#57 Dec 30 2010 at 10:16 PM Rating: Default
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Anything over an hour or two a day isn't casual

Just sayin'
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#58 Dec 30 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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The OP agrees that content is a big issue.

I don't like saying there's no content because there is and its called Leves.

The problem is Leves are great for casual to moderate players and a nice boost when they're available to hard core players - but they aren't very diverse and they aren't very immersing, but in order to make them immersing you'd have something more like XI - where you find an NPC, talk to them, run out somewhere, fight something, gather a material, run back - and leves (while not as immersing in the game world) streamline a process so someone with 15 minutes can do more than one of these even.

So the argument shouldn't be "this game isn't casual friendly" or "has no content." It should simply be that a wide majority don't think the game is fun. That's what it all comes down to and I know "fun" is subjective (I have fun in XIV ever day!) but if it can't keep most people playing then something (content provided seems the usual suspect) is very wrong.

I just think a lot of times fan outrage is misguided or poorly worded.

Quote:
Just for fun let's play devil's advocate and find ways the game isn't casual:

Market Wards - since their inception they've been more inefficient than an AH (they've since gotten extremely better) showing that if you were casual you'd have to waste a session of time buying an item.

Repair System - You could never repair things yourself; you'd have to rely on others to repair your gear, and this could also take time. You could make friends but this leads me to my next point.

Community - If you're a solely casual player it's that much harder to sustain friendships with those other than your RL friends. There is no time to group up with buddies, which is ultimately the point of an MMO.

This makes a casual game, but without the MMO part.


I agree with the Market Wards, but it is primarily fixed now. I think we all knew the Wards would be fixed and it's a matter of complete douche-baggery they released the game in the state it was in (particular Markets). Even selling to NPCs (and moving things to/from bazaar/retainer/retainer's bazaar) took an absurdly long time. I spent about 5 minutes standing in front of a NPC vendor dumping 60 pieces of crap I'd "farmed" while leveling to 15. 5 minutes to item-dump is terrible. But anyway this is (and has been) on the up and up since day one. So hopefully a think of the past and forgotten in a year.

Repair System - I disagree. It depends entirely on the player. My wife is a casual player (not a unicorn). She works too much during the week. She may do 1 behest before work and 2 after work (not playing in between, but cooking dinner) and the "meat" of her time in the game is on her days off. She plays 10 hours a week total (plus those 15 minutes here and there at Behest).

She keeps pace with me on her main job (and I am pacing myself but not to allow her to catch up because 2 Ranks per week is pretty ambitious in my opinion) but also manages to have 2 Craft Jobs to R20. If she had done research (or I had done it for her!) she may have chosen to Rank up 1 Craft (Weaver) to repair her gear. She'd still have to repair her 1 Weapon at the NPC (but only 1/week!)

The repair system isn't that bad for casuals. Though it does require a bit of planning and deciding what kind of armor you are going to be wearing and how you can best repair it.

Community - This is kind of silly. Grouping up with buddies is the real boon of an MMO but it certainly doesn't need to be a "friend finding" tool. Using my wife as an example still even if she only had 1 friend (me) it's more than enough to keep her going. For example, I'm a Carpenter (R32) so that covers her weapon. She (fortunately) doesn't even need that 1/week weapon repair. Even if you only had 1 friend in the entire server (and provided you could always play together) you'd be fine. Would it be the best way to experience an MMO? Not in my opinion, but maybe for some people that's fine.

Though it probably isn't. I certainly wouldn't design an entire game hoping that was true. So you have a point, but it's not ... eh It's debatable. The community, I mean.

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Oh and the trade off (just for comparison's sake) between me playing 5 hours (or more) a day and her playing less than 1/day and 10-12 on the weekends is that I do have a R32 craft and several 20+ jobs (Well she also has 22 Miner, so even still she's not that far behind me). You know? She's living proof that a casual can get a lot done in a moderate amount of time - and she doesn't even make the best use of that time! like leveling a craft that didn't really benefit the Magic job she chose.
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#59 Dec 30 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here's the thing, though.
It's been talked around by a couple posters.

I was excited about NMs being added (mildly, but excited nonetheless) but I was pretty upset (again, mildly, but still upset) that the only NMs they bothered to add were suited to R45-50 and gear for R45-50.

That's pretty unfair! Now, I know more NM will come, but they couldn't have made 3 (or better yet 6) NMs that groups could do at R20-25 and 35-40? (give or take)? It added a carrot (I guess) for some people, but really not that many people I don't think. (Maybe I'm wrong).

I originally argued that it was not casual friendly (using the "inaccurate" definition) but now I see that Faction Leve NM are pretty "casual friendly" (the way I mean it in this thread) but the fact that only 45 and above can hope to fight NMs is like a slap in the face to everyone just pushing through slow and steady. Already the game is catering to those people who did nothing but bum rush to R50 (and I'm not saying they shouldn't be rewarded for their effort; no! not at all!) but why can't mid-levels have the EXACT SAME content but scaled down for them? (and I don't mean the exact same NMs/gear, I mean the exact same system; grind out Faction points and do Special R30 NMs or whatever).

It just seemed poor taste on the developer's part. Though their initial announcement said NMs would be int he 2011 update so maybe they just bee-lined some end game content so R50s would stop dropping like flies (and some still are, but I'd say 50% of the R50s I met are having fun messing around with NMs regularly).
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#60Ostia, Posted: Dec 31 2010 at 12:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Japanese developers don't have any idea of what "Casual Friendly" means, FFXI is the perfect example, FFXIV is another one, they had 6-7 years of experience, a large # of other MMO to study, they have the most successful MMO in the market to study and dissect and yet they gave us this horrible thing for an MMO(Wich one major selling point was that it would be casual) Being able to log in for 10-15-30 minute's and kill a # of monsters and accumulate 1% of the EXP needed for your next level is not casual friendly, grinding for week's end is not casual Friendly.
#61 Dec 31 2010 at 12:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Since I play casually myself, this topic was of particular interest to me, and I agree that you can indeed accomplish something, however small, without dedicating a lot of time to the game.

One of the major reasons I consider this to be such a massive leap up from FFXI is the crafting system. It's a bit of a bittersweet love though, as they've also complicated recipes considerably over the old style system by breaking everything down into smaller component parts. Having said that though I know that I can log in, craft something and improve my skill level in that craft. Conversely in FFXI I would log in, craft something and maybe get 0.1 craft skill if I was particularly lucky. This only got worse the higher up the ranks you went.

Before I ramble off-topic too much, this was only as an example to show that I can actually progress through the crafting ranks in FFXIV without having to get lucky, and without having to dedicate a lot of time to doing so. For me, that's the very definition of casual play and it's major draw for me.

My only gripe is that the grind is all we have right now. Whether it's leves or crafting, everything is all about class progression and not about having fun with the game. There are story missions, but they're too short and too far between to retain long term interest on their own. Hopefully 2011 will bring plenty of great content to the game so even the hardcore players will have something to look forward to.
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#62 Dec 31 2010 at 3:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Two and a half months? Really?

I'd say 6 months if their main focus was to hit the cap.

11 hours a week can go a long way in this game.

11 hours of straight grinding at 10k/hour is 110k skill points.
That's 2 levels a week from 31-45(ish) so 7 weeks?
Then 5 more weeks to get 1 level per week.

Would a casual player spend every SECOND of the game grinding?

Very unlikely, but I think 6 months is a good estimate on how long it would take someone playing 11 hours a week to hit Rank 50. It would probably take even less. Especially if on their 5 hour day they did leves worth 20k/hour (maxing out at 60-80k) but they won't get that solo.

I think 6 months is reasonable amount of time to hit the Level Cap for someone playing 1 hour a day and 5 hours on the weekend. Two months is preposterous.

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Just for the record this is just my opinion on "casual friendly" and should by no means be taken as the "standard" - and while we're on the record, you missed the point again Ostia. You're (again) saying what you can achieve in 15 minutes is "worthless" (when it isn't, it's worth 1% using your glib comment). Accomplishing 1% is nothing to brag about, maybe not even feel "good" about but it's something.
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#63 Dec 31 2010 at 4:16 AM Rating: Good
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I have to agree with Kirutaru.. I think that's the whole concept about the game being more casual friendly.. you can accomplish something even in a short amount of time.. unlike in FFXI where you needed at least 3 or 4 hours at best..
In fact, FFXI is a huge timesink.. or rather was before WoTG.. but I'll quote myself from another thread since I have already expressed myself on this matter..
KaineGestalt wrote:
Eh.. I might as well say my two cents about the game..
As a player who cannot allow herself to play all day.. I'm having fun..
Maybe it doesn't have much content yet.. but this is the only MMORPG that allows me to relax back without worrying that I'll be left behind.. and I like that..
I hated so much the requirements in terms of equip, time and number of people to do things in FFXI..

You wanna do this quest? Well too bad you need 10 more people..!
Oh looks like you managed to find a few people to help you, that's great..! Too bad half of them has to go whenever you manage to get the required number..


This NM drops a very nice item.. but to get it you'll have to camp it for 20 straight hours, compete with 10 other players who are obviously smarter than you because they have bots camping for them while they're out having fun with their friends, and in case you claim the NM, just pray to whichever god you worship that the ridicolous drop rate will grant you that item instead of a measly rat tail..
Whoops.. it seems that your prayers were unanswered and you obtained a rat tail.. go back to camping your NM and good luck for the next time.. :D


But in FFXIV I can do anything in any way, I can choose to solo, and I'm not forced to have Sniper's rings(This is an example.. it took me ages in FFXI to get those rings because of the price...) because elitist linkshells and parties require them..

I could be called a FFXI veteran as well.. starting back in 2004.. I had fun on FFXI, but I was merely 15 back then.. I had alot more time on my hands than I have now.. the days in which I could spend over 6 hours on a videogame are long gone..
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#64 Dec 31 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Japanese developers don't have any idea of what "Casual Friendly" means, FFXI is the perfect example, FFXIV is another one, they had 6-7 years of experience, a large # of other MMO to study, they have the most successful MMO in the market to study and dissect and yet they gave us this horrible thing for an MMO(Wich one major selling point was that it would be casual) Being able to log in for 10-15-30 minute's and kill a # of monsters and accumulate 1% of the EXP needed for your next level is not casual friendly, grinding for week's end is not casual Friendly.

This game lacks direction, lack's content, lack's a personality, is this game a PVE game or a crafting game ? it does not meter, for in both aspect's it fails to deliver content, why do i wanna bother to level up to max? to grind and farm the same mobs i been grinding on for the past 50 level's ? Oh wait i can do the same leaves i been doing since level 1 <.<

And as for crafting, Woopty doo! Let's craft some armor and weapons to beat this death beat monster who offer no challenge, or depth in strategy <.<

This game offers 2 things only(Well one really) grind monsters or leave's, or grind craft's that's it, there is nothing else to this game, and that is not casual friendly.

Seriously tho, how long would it take a person that only play's 1hr a day and on his free day's play's up to 5hrs to hit max level ? If the answer is not lower than 2 and a half month's, this game is not casual friendly, and it will never be so.



I rate down ALL your posts, seriously have you even played this game? People have very thoroughly and repeatedly stated how this game is casual friendly and yet you say the same things like going round and round in circles. Most of what you say is plain wrong. Same mobs and leves? a few of us including me have posted how I gained 25% of my level in 15minutes work regardless of the previous input. well it all boils down to pressing the same keys over and over, all games, computers, what with these stupid keys over and over Ive had enough its all the same.

/quits computers forever
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#65 Dec 31 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
I boggles my mind, but can anybody tell me how is this game the most casual friendly MMO ?

Seriously ... lol


change jobs anywhere, teleport anytime any job, no competeing over gathering spots, free mats from local leves, no sp loss during death, daily leves with sp gain buffs, tons of inv space. seems the only things not casual is sp pass 20 and shopping, but that is potentially going to get more casual.
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#66 Dec 31 2010 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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Consider the Windower.

In FFXI, we asked for a Windower. Windower was a program that allowed us to play the game in full screen OR in a Window with the ability to alt-tab, as well as having addons to see others' TP, MP, etc, among other things.

We asked for a Windower.

We got... the ability to play the game in a Window.

When players asked for instances, what they WANTED was something similar to Nyzul/Dynamis/Limbus, except in separate channels so that multiple parties could do the content at once, rather than being locked out of a certain zone because other people were in it, similar to instances in WoW or DDO or Allods, etc.

What we got... was quest areas that were sectioned off from the rest of the map... called "Instances".

Considering this in the context of the thread, SE heard "Casual" and they put in what -they- interpret as "Casual".

What we have here is... failure to communicate. Some companies you just can't reach. So you get what we have had here since launch, which is the way they want it. Well, they get it. And I don't like it any more than you men.
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#67 Dec 31 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Consider the Windower.

In FFXI, we asked for a Windower. Windower was a program that allowed us to play the game in full screen OR in a Window with the ability to alt-tab, as well as having addons to see others' TP, MP, etc, among other things.

We asked for a Windower.

We got... the ability to play the game in a Window.

When players asked for instances, what they WANTED was something similar to Nyzul/Dynamis/Limbus, except in separate channels so that multiple parties could do the content at once, rather than being locked out of a certain zone because other people were in it, similar to instances in WoW or DDO or Allods, etc.

What we got... was quest areas that were sectioned off from the rest of the map... called "Instances".

Considering this in the context of the thread, SE heard "Casual" and they put in what -they- interpret as "Casual".

What we have here is... failure to communicate. Some companies you just can't reach. So you get what we have had here since launch, which is the way they want it. Well, they get it. And I don't like it any more than you men.


I'm afraid I disagree with most of your post but at least you put your opinion in an mature way, I'm just sorry not everyone is like that.

Ostia, ^^
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#68 Dec 31 2010 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hugus wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Consider the Windower.

In FFXI, we asked for a Windower. Windower was a program that allowed us to play the game in full screen OR in a Window with the ability to alt-tab, as well as having addons to see others' TP, MP, etc, among other things.

We asked for a Windower.

We got... the ability to play the game in a Window.

When players asked for instances, what they WANTED was something similar to Nyzul/Dynamis/Limbus, except in separate channels so that multiple parties could do the content at once, rather than being locked out of a certain zone because other people were in it, similar to instances in WoW or DDO or Allods, etc.

What we got... was quest areas that were sectioned off from the rest of the map... called "Instances".

Considering this in the context of the thread, SE heard "Casual" and they put in what -they- interpret as "Casual".

What we have here is... failure to communicate. Some companies you just can't reach. So you get what we have had here since launch, which is the way they want it. Well, they get it. And I don't like it any more than you men.


I'm afraid I disagree with most of your post but at least you put your opinion in an mature way, I'm just sorry not everyone is like that.

Ostia, ^^


I'm pretty confident in my assertion that the issue here is a difference between what players expect when -they- say "casual" versus what SE implemented under what -they- believe to be "casual", coupled by some citations of where players asked for a certain feature and ended up getting it, but not in the way it was asked. If I asked SE for "A hundred bucks", I'd probably be trampled by a horde of male deer.

I'm curious what it is you disagree with, exactly.
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#69 Dec 31 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

I'm pretty confident in my assertion that the issue here is a difference between what players expect when -they- say "casual" versus what SE implemented under what -they- believe to be "casual", coupled by some citations of where players asked for a certain feature and ended up getting it, but not in the way it was asked. If I asked SE for "A hundred bucks", I'd probably be trampled by a horde of male deer.

I'm curious what it is you disagree with, exactly.


In reagrds to the Windower part and from my time in FFXI I think it would be a complete change in direction for SE to allow Add ons into the game, specially if they can only be used on PC and not PS3. As such being able to play in window mode is all that I did expect and as such am happy whith it.

In regards to have instances to play in, indeed FFXIV doesnt have many (and probbaly any meaningfully), but when you have mobs that although being visible to the whole population can only be attacked by a certain number of people (leves) this in practice, to me, it's the same as being in an instance and deals with the problem that might have been claiming mobs. so we don't have instances but as it is at the moment we don't need to, this issue has been successfully been adressed by SE.

In casual, I understand it as being able to do something constructive in a small ammount of time, being able to complete a leve or two in 20 minutes constitutes as casual to me.

I didn't go into more detail in my previous post because I think this has been discussed quite a number ot times and since you posted in a mature and educated way I didn't feel the need to rise to the bait that sometimes I feel being posted on this forum.
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#70 Dec 31 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I consider casual players as people who are not "in the know" for lack of a better term. Not really bad, but players who do not check the internet for quest guides, players who do not have years of MMO experience, and players who typically don't pick up on things easily. A casual game would be one that anyone should be able to pick it up and enjoy it without having to do homework.

Basically, imo if you're on these forums, you're probably not a casual player. Most likely you play the same way if you're playing for 12 or 2 hours (obviously barring leve cooldowns etc). I don't like the term hardcore vs casual, because my opinion of hardcore would be someone who is making the game their primary social activity in life. I prefer to think of it in terms of casuals and either 'mmo vets' or 'mmo experts'.
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#71 Dec 31 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hugus wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

I'm pretty confident in my assertion that the issue here is a difference between what players expect when -they- say "casual" versus what SE implemented under what -they- believe to be "casual", coupled by some citations of where players asked for a certain feature and ended up getting it, but not in the way it was asked. If I asked SE for "A hundred bucks", I'd probably be trampled by a horde of male deer.

I'm curious what it is you disagree with, exactly.


In reagrds to the Windower part and from my time in FFXI I think it would be a complete change in direction for SE to allow Add ons into the game, specially if they can only be used on PC and not PS3. As such being able to play in window mode is all that I did expect and as such am happy whith it.

In regards to have instances to play in, indeed FFXIV doesnt have many (and probbaly any meaningfully), but when you have mobs that although being visible to the whole population can only be attacked by a certain number of people (leves) this in practice, to me, it's the same as being in an instance and deals with the problem that might have been claiming mobs. so we don't have instances but as it is at the moment we don't need to, this issue has been successfully been adressed by SE.

In casual, I understand it as being able to do something constructive in a small ammount of time, being able to complete a leve or two in 20 minutes constitutes as casual to me.

I didn't go into more detail in my previous post because I think this has been discussed quite a number ot times and since you posted in a mature and educated way I didn't feel the need to rise to the bait that sometimes I feel being posted on this forum.


Point by point:

- In regard to add-ons, I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with them because it's irrelevant to this matter; my point was that that what the FFXI Windower program offered was what many people had in mind when they asked SE for "A Windower". I, for one, didn't want to play in a Window; I just wanted to be able to alt-tab out of Full Screen. Fast forward to FFXIV and I -STILL- can't alt-tab out of Full screen.

- In regards to instances, what you're saying goes to cement my point a bit; you say that to you, it's the same as being in an instance... but that's not what most people were expecting when they asked for when they asked for "instances".

- Again with the casual part, note how you're saying what you personally believe to be "casual" (And I don't disagree, really)

So in summary, I re-state my point that this is all a matter of players asking for something and not feeling like they got what they asked for because of different interpretations of what was asked for versus what they got. Your points were specifically saying "This was what I expected" and "This was what I got"; my point was that for many people, What they asked for -was not- what they felt they got. Back to my whole "A hundred bucks" thing again.

No bait or anything; I was just trying to get clarification of what you meant.

Edited, Dec 31st 2010 11:58am by Mikhalia
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#72 Dec 31 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Default
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Who really cares what SE's definition of "casual" is when the vast majority of players (and potential players) think they have it dead wrong? Success or failure is going to be measured in the number of subscribers/players, it doesn't matter what SE says or thinks. Most people realized early on they have a perverted idea of "casual", I'm not sure a thread spelling it out was necessary. The complaints and lambastes are more a response to SE's ignorance, not an "OMG, this is not casual at all! Why is this happening!?" type of thing.

Edited, Dec 31st 2010 12:06pm by Furia
#73Ostia, Posted: Dec 31 2010 at 1:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) People have also been hypocrite about this game since launch, remember the few first week's? When people where saying this was the second coming of jesus and everybody that dint like it, needed to go back to wow, or dint know what "Hardcore" gaming was? Then SE came out and said "Ok we kinda blew it, out bad etc etc" and the same people where like "Ok the game has issue's but it's still better than X or Y game, people just don't have taste on MMORPG'S"
#74 Dec 31 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
People have also been hypocrite about this game since launch, remember the few first week's? When people where saying this was the second coming of jesus and everybody that dint like it, needed to go back to wow, or dint know what "Hardcore" gaming was? Then SE came out and said "Ok we kinda blew it, out bad etc etc" and the same people where like "Ok the game has issue's but it's still better than X or Y game, people just don't have taste on MMORPG'S"

This game was aimed at the casual market, that was it's design yet it failed, why ? Because people don't know what casual means ? Or because SE has no idea of what casual player's look for in a game ?

Btw: i can care less if you rate down my post or not, if i wanted to get my post's rated up, i would be praising SE casual approach even when in a market of millions (More than 12) this game holds 100k or less sub's, but it is the most casual friendly game EVAH!?


This isn't a discussion about whether their approach was successful. Everyone keeps coming in here to argue "something" but it's not contradicting what anyone is saying. Square Enix idea of casual was aptly applied to XIV. The whole game is extremely casual friendly in terms of what you can do in 10 hours a week.

Whether or not the things you can do in 10 hours a week are worthwhile or keep the attention of a casual gamer is not on trial. Anyone who doesn't know the game failed to deliver and is a financial disaster is in denial. You don't have to keep lol'ng your balls off over it like we missed this somehow.

Also how many MMO coming from Japan or Korea can you name that are more casual than XIV?

You apparently want us all to bow down and admit WoW has a better casual market, but as I've been saying the Asian idea of casual is different. So name some Asian casual friendly games. Yeah, SE doesn't understand what American casual gamers are looking for in a game, but then again some of us (100,000+) really enjoy the game for what it is. So despite not being the WoW-killer they pretend they didn't want it to be it's not like (on a niche level) it isn't a decent game.

Ostia, you're so silly.
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#75 Dec 31 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
People have also been hypocrite about this game since launch, remember the few first week's? When people where saying this was the second coming of jesus and everybody that dint like it, needed to go back to wow, or dint know what "Hardcore" gaming was? Then SE came out and said "Ok we kinda blew it, out bad etc etc" and the same people where like "Ok the game has issue's but it's still better than X or Y game, people just don't have taste on MMORPG'S"

This game was aimed at the casual market, that was it's design yet it failed, why ? Because people don't know what casual means ? Or because SE has no idea of what casual player's look for in a game ?

Btw: i can care less if you rate down my post or not, if i wanted to get my post's rated up, i would be praising SE casual approach even when in a market of millions (More than 12) this game holds 100k or less sub's, but it is the most casual friendly game EVAH!?


This isn't a discussion about whether their approach was successful. Everyone keeps coming in here to argue "something" but it's not contradicting what anyone is saying. Square Enix idea of casual was aptly applied to XIV. The whole game is extremely casual friendly in terms of what you can do in 10 hours a week.

Whether or not the things you can do in 10 hours a week are worthwhile or keep the attention of a casual gamer is not on trial. Anyone who doesn't know the game failed to deliver and is a financial disaster is in denial. You don't have to keep lol'ng your balls off over it like we missed this somehow.

Also how many MMO coming from Japan or Korea can you name that are more casual than XIV?

You apparently want us all to bow down and admit WoW has a better casual market, but as I've been saying the Asian idea of casual is different. So name some Asian casual friendly games. Yeah, SE doesn't understand what American casual gamers are looking for in a game, but then again some of us (100,000+) really enjoy the game for what it is. So despite not being the WoW-killer they pretend they didn't want it to be it's not like (on a niche level) it isn't a decent game.

Ostia, you're so silly.


Seriously <.< in any game you can go and grind mob's around, some are harder some are easier than others this idea that FFXIV is the first game ever to allow players to grind mobs for EXP is just stupid, i could solo in EQ as a SK, i would not get a level out of it(in a reasonable time), but i could do it, was EQ a casual friendly game ? No it was not.

And on a niche level this game is mediocre at best, FFXI is a niche game and is leaps and bounds better than this game, EQ2 is a niche game, and it a better game, so is aion and war also, but you know how they became niche ? they failed hard on their face, just like this game did, and it will continue to do so, unless SE change's direction, and start catering the casual player, this game was not meant to be a niche game anyways.

Also a large % of those 100K or less, are not happy with the game, they are still playing because the game is free, or hoping that SE will fix it :)
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MUTED
#76 Dec 31 2010 at 11:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nah.

I don't agree with you.
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#77 Jan 01 2011 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
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Well that's your opinion and i respect it :)
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#78 Jan 01 2011 at 1:11 AM Rating: Good
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Normally I think Ostia is an idiot, but...

Ostia wrote:
Also a large % of those 100K or less, are not happy with the game, they are still playing because the game is free, or hoping that SE will fix it :)


...I don't necessarily disagree with this. I don't know what percent I'd attribute as "large" (25%? 40%? 60%?) but I'd say that at least a sizable chunk of the current playerbase is still playing while the game is free and waiting for the game to get better before they'd feel comfortable shelling out cash. If this weren't true, SE would be charging for the game right now. Companies don't offer products for free because they care about people; they offer products for free because they know that once you lose a customer, the chances of getting them back diminish severely, and they're likely afraid that they'll lose a lot of subscribers at the current point in time.

After they announced the total restructuring of the devs, the "Indefinitely free to play", and started updating far more frequently, it became obvious that SE is not dealing with the standard percentage of players who will just complain about anything like they had in XI; something severe and serious is happening to cause them to backpedal and start rethinking the game, almost from scratch.
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Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
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Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#79 Jan 01 2011 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

What we have here is... failure to communicate. Some companies you just can't reach. So you get what we have had here since launch, which is the way they want it. Well, they get it. And I don't like it any more than you men.


off topic, i know but that was awesome.


waitin for more meaningful content over here boss.
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#80 Jan 01 2011 at 2:23 AM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Normally I think Ostia is an idiot, but...

Ostia wrote:
Also a large % of those 100K or less, are not happy with the game, they are still playing because the game is free, or hoping that SE will fix it :)


...I don't necessarily disagree with this. I don't know what percent I'd attribute as "large" (25%? 40%? 60%?) but I'd say that at least a sizable chunk of the current playerbase is still playing while the game is free and waiting for the game to get better before they'd feel comfortable shelling out cash. If this weren't true, SE would be charging for the game right now. Companies don't offer products for free because they care about people; they offer products for free because they know that once you lose a customer, the chances of getting them back diminish severely, and they're likely afraid that they'll lose a lot of subscribers at the current point in time.

After they announced the total restructuring of the devs, the "Indefinitely free to play", and started updating far more frequently, it became obvious that SE is not dealing with the standard percentage of players who will just complain about anything like they had in XI; something severe and serious is happening to cause them to backpedal and start rethinking the game, almost from scratch.



That something is selling ~700k+ copies, and only having ~20,000 active players online at any given time. I would not be surprised numbers are down to a combined 10-15k across all servers at present.
#81 Jan 01 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Normally I think Ostia is an idiot, but...

Ostia wrote:
Also a large % of those 100K or less, are not happy with the game, they are still playing because the game is free, or hoping that SE will fix it :)


...I don't necessarily disagree with this. I don't know what percent I'd attribute as "large" (25%? 40%? 60%?) but I'd say that at least a sizable chunk of the current playerbase is still playing while the game is free and waiting for the game to get better before they'd feel comfortable shelling out cash. If this weren't true, SE would be charging for the game right now. Companies don't offer products for free because they care about people; they offer products for free because they know that once you lose a customer, the chances of getting them back diminish severely, and they're likely afraid that they'll lose a lot of subscribers at the current point in time.

After they announced the total restructuring of the devs, the "Indefinitely free to play", and started updating far more frequently, it became obvious that SE is not dealing with the standard percentage of players who will just complain about anything like they had in XI; something severe and serious is happening to cause them to backpedal and start rethinking the game, almost from scratch.


just out of curiosity, why im i an idiot ?
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#82 Jan 01 2011 at 9:43 AM Rating: Default
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Furia wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Normally I think Ostia is an idiot, but...

Ostia wrote:
Also a large % of those 100K or less, are not happy with the game, they are still playing because the game is free, or hoping that SE will fix it :)


...I don't necessarily disagree with this. I don't know what percent I'd attribute as "large" (25%? 40%? 60%?) but I'd say that at least a sizable chunk of the current playerbase is still playing while the game is free and waiting for the game to get better before they'd feel comfortable shelling out cash. If this weren't true, SE would be charging for the game right now. Companies don't offer products for free because they care about people; they offer products for free because they know that once you lose a customer, the chances of getting them back diminish severely, and they're likely afraid that they'll lose a lot of subscribers at the current point in time.

After they announced the total restructuring of the devs, the "Indefinitely free to play", and started updating far more frequently, it became obvious that SE is not dealing with the standard percentage of players who will just complain about anything like they had in XI; something severe and serious is happening to cause them to backpedal and start rethinking the game, almost from scratch.



That something is selling ~700k+ copies, and only having ~20,000 active players online at any given time. I would not be surprised numbers are down to a combined 10-15k across all servers at present.


This game has not sold the 600k copies it shipped, so where did you get this 700k+ copies ? Also this game went from $60 to %25-30 in 2 months lol

where do you get this numbers from ?
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#83 Jan 01 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
This game has not sold the 600k copies it shipped, so where did you get this 700k+ copies ? Also this game went from $60 to %25-30 in 2 months lol

where do you get this numbers from ?


Yea, was just an adjustment on Wada's (old) 630k figure. Are you sure he was quoting shipped and not sell through? They represented 6 weeks of sells, and seemed awfully low (per region) to be shipped numbers. It seems like the FF name alone would have drummed up more than 200k retailer orders in the Americas. Being an MMO, I assumed the numbers were being compiled at activation and sign ups.
#84 Jan 01 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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Furia wrote:
Ostia wrote:
This game has not sold the 600k copies it shipped, so where did you get this 700k+ copies ? Also this game went from $60 to %25-30 in 2 months lol

where do you get this numbers from ?


Yea, was just an adjustment on Wada's (old) 630k figure. Are you sure he was quoting shipped and not sell through? They represented 6 weeks of sells, and seemed awfully low (per region) to be shipped numbers. It seems like the FF name alone would have drummed up more than 200k retailer orders in the Americas. Being an MMO, I assumed the numbers were being compiled at activation and sign ups.


You'd think, but no. 630k copies were shipped, and based on whats sitting on store shelves I doubt anyone ordered more.
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#85 Jan 01 2011 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
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" Casual _______ " makes me think of someone who is apathetic to and lazy about.

" Professional " is someone who gets paid.

I'm a professional, casual gamer :3


What is all this casual / hardcore threads really about anyway? XD
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#86 Jan 01 2011 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Casual players um... to me the term defines as "one who has not a fixed gaming time schedule, therefore casual" so all the people who have time demanding occupations like me for example, fall in that category.. correct me if I'm wrong..

That's why I call myself a casual player.. there are days in which I can play for hours and hours straight and others in which I can play just for a few minutes.. that's about it..

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