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current culture for FF community?Follow

#1 Dec 31 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
I was in Behest with all the random "Behest Superstars" in the area. We proceeded to kill mobs and noticed several people insisting on Soloing Behest mobs and tried to shrug it off. I figured I would make the suggestion to target "Red mobs" only to have the group leader mention that it didn't matter, "objective is to kill all mobs." Instead of pointing out the SP benefits of focusing on the targeted group at a time in group chat, I politely waited till Behest was over and sent him a /tell hoping to enlighten him on this fact. He promptly responded with how Behest is different and it doesn't matter, then called me a "dumass" I asked him why he was calling me names and then told me I started it, lol. Anyways, I tried to get some confirmation in /shout from the surrounding people about the Behest objectives and maximizing SP, w/o calling out, who we'll call "the idiot", I was talking to, only to get NOT ONE reply besides the idiot replying in /shout "There is a mix of Japanese and English speaking people, it would be difficult to coordinate it."

I'm hoping my experience the other night is not consistent with the experience of others and will not be on a frequent basis. So my questions are: Are you all seeing a lot of this?, am I reasonably upset or should I just shut up and deal with it?, and Do you all foresee a change in this community attitude?

Despite all the bugs and broken systems in this game, this community factor would help me stay motivated to log in and stay entertained but this is nothing like the mmorpg experience I had in FFXI. People were generally helpful, especially to the newbies. And most everyone was cordial and mature. There was even a random person who felt I could use the gil and gave me 20,000 (which used to be a lot, especially when you first start off and are doing quests with 600gil rewards)

The obvious response would be to get a good LS but unfortunately it is difficult for me with my random play times to coordinate LS oriented activities so I put myself at the mercy of PUGs most often then not. You take the good with the bad of course but I'm not seeing a lot of good in the PUGs I've been in.
#2 Dec 31 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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Hmmm.... not generally my experience... though shockingly the WORST behest I was ever in was one at an R30 camp. Like I have had better experiences at R10 camps with people who are wearing their starter gear than at that camp... bloody mages AOEing everything in sight (not even just leve mobs but random goats and crap) lol...

Anyway I may just be spoiled because I have an excellent LS and almost any behest I have done has at least 1 other LS member in it so there is that strength in numbers but generally I've found most players to be pretty cool. Like Uo and myself were duoing and we decided to do some behest at Skull Valley and there was a brand new player there - a glad... and we explained how it worked and though the first go through he AOEed some mobs with circle slash - he kept on just focussing on the red mob before moving on to the aggroed mob ... and then we talked about it before the next one and he didn't AOE anything else. So it was cool.

As for the LS I totally understand the difficulty of doing coordinated stuff on some sort of schedule (I don't play that way) but if you look around there are lots of shells that don't expect you to play on a schedule and if the LS is large enough and friendly enough you can generally find people to help you out or group with you when you are interested in doing so.

I would consider checking the server forums and seeing if there is an LS on your server that suits you.

The community is there... I just think it is more insular than XI.
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#3dyvidd, Posted: Dec 31 2010 at 1:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) When you build a game that is solo friendly your community is always going to suffer more. Also FFXI was a different time and different players. When we started playing in 2003 we were meet with a Japanese Players who were helpful and giving. Alot of NA took this to be the FFXI culture. Sadly '03 is a far cry from '11. The internet culture and gaming cultures have changed and it shows.
#4 Dec 31 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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You know what would be smart? If SE made it where when you engage a mob it becomes red. Instead of it staying tan while it attacks you and you kill it and get no SP.

Do I think players should attack the red mob? Ofcourse. I also belive that when a mob is attacking you it should be red to you and give SP reguardless of how many mobs you are fighting at once.
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#5 Dec 31 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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dyvidd wrote:


As for the behest I hate to say it but "the idiot" was right. Why go through all the hassle trying to organize tactics when easier method worked?


No... wrong.

Smiley: facepalm

If by "worked" you mean the behest ended... but most of us think it "works" when we get the max SP available. Attacking unclaimed mobs kills SP.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#6 Dec 31 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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You were right as far as I now. SP is better if the groups focus on one mob or one party of mobs and burn them down so everyone gets full credit for the kills. But at the same time, if you're not the leader of the group it's not your place to "enlighten" anyone and if you choose to try and make it your place, you risk invoking the wrath of the drama llama. Nobody likes to have uberdorks whip out their pocket calculators and barfing numbers all over them about what is best and optimal. Sometimes people just want to play the game. When it's your group, direct people as you see appropriate. When you're joining someone else' group and you don't like how things are being run, sometimes it's just best to bow out and leave it alone.
#7 Dec 31 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I had this same experience, but I was the idiot because it was my first time doing behest. So, I had no clue about the "non-claim" BS. The difference with my particular instance was that I actually listened and apologized after I found out I was potentially ruining SP. I fixed what I was doing, only to still be yelled at and cussed out for the remainder of behest. Furthermore, I've come to find out that a few of the people started talking about me to others on the server, saying that I can't follow directions, which is utterly incorrect. That was a couple months ago, and I haven't really logged on much since then.

In my opinion, the community in this game is much more immature than it's predecessor. I'm not really sure why that is... it could be because it's a whole new generations of impatient, un-empathetic morons, or maybe it could be because of the fact that we aren't the "minority" this time around like we were when XI released and the Japanese had already set the stage (which causes all of us to stick together to make it). Then again, it could be due to a multitude of other reason. In any case, I'm fairly disgusted with how this game, and it's community has turned out. I continue to follow along via the forums and logging in every so often to see what has changed. But so far I've lost my will to play :-(
#8 Dec 31 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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dyvidd and aurelius both of you are actually against common sense on this one. I'm guessing you don't do behests often.

The penalty for even striking an enemy when its not going to be claimed and turn red is about 25% from what most pullers do. Depending on its health it could be less then 25% or even zero and a lot of players who don't know do kill unclaimed mobs expecting it to work out fine.

Unless you are blind or very unobservant you should notice that you aren't getting the same sp or any sp for unclaimed kills. Too often groups split up and kill whatever they want sometimes switched back and forth on claims unaware they are killing each others SP.

Its just like having a rank 50 in a rank 20 Behest. At a certain point things are just not going to work, and since I have personally seen all this stuff happen, even within the past week shows that people are not just ignorant of behest, but plain deaf to suggestions which have immediate and clear results.

This is not some 'nerd with a calculator' saying that your yellow gear damage icon is killing some insane efficiency, this is the difference between progress or less to no progress because of stupidity.

Also if you are leading a behest, use a behest macro to let people know the rules. I can understand a mistake here or there, but having people TP down three bugs who spam mortal mist EVERY TIME for 20+ kills and nearly wiping a party is a pain that shouldn't be so repetitive.

Designate a puller.
Warn people about enemy counterattacks when applicable and most importantly
Kill claimed mobs before moving onto the next enemy!
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#9 Dec 31 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Its really just bad design on the behest's part. I mean, i guess they didn't want 15 people soloing all 15 behest mobs and finishing in 2 minutes, but what they have now kinda sucks. You should never expect a random group of people to all know how to do whats "right" (or best) in the situation.
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#10 Dec 31 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Its really just bad design on the behest's part. I mean, i guess they didn't want 15 people soloing all 15 behest mobs and finishing in 2 minutes, but what they have now kinda sucks. You should never expect a random group of people to all know how to do whats "right" (or best) in the situation.


Exactly.
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#11 Dec 31 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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AceAmallie wrote:
dyvidd and aurelius both of you are actually against common sense on this one. I'm guessing you don't do behests often.


Common sense says a few hundred SP isn't worth a drama ********** That's what it boils down to. People skills before SP, k? Not your group, not your business. And following up when the group is over to "enlighten"? Seriously? It's time to get your heads out, kids. It's not FFXI. It's a whole new genre of MMO and MMO player. Not everyone wants to start a group and chase after people to do things the "best" way. Sometimes they just want to play the game and if people are doing things wrong but aren't getting you flattened, let them. It doesn't matter. It's not worth the headache.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that trying to change it isn't worth the headache...because you can't change it. And the harder you try, the more butthurt you're going to get. So just leave it alone. Don't run with those people anymore if it bothers you that much. That's all there is to it.
#12 Dec 31 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
Its really just bad design on the behest's part. I mean, i guess they didn't want 15 people soloing all 15 behest mobs and finishing in 2 minutes, but what they have now kinda sucks. You should never expect a random group of people to all know how to do whats "right" (or best) in the situation.


A design issue for combat which may or may not be addressed on tomorrow's dev post. I think behest will not change too much in the coming months, but then again the nature of behest was meant for a pick up group to establish and probably make a lasting party at its end rather then become an hourly level grind session which lasts for 10 minutes.

Casually it is amazing.
Hardcore it is still amazing, enough to break whatever you are doing and come to camp every hour.

This is where it bumps heads. Casual people don't know and probably don't have the experience in this. Like one shotting enemies with in capitations. Few people even do that now, let alone the newbies. Until party situations are adjusted and battle with a party becomes better or equivalent to a behest such will be the problems surrounding it.

Now I am fully expecting notes on this tomorrow, but it is well known that the communities biggest issues are being solved one at a time and we've been harping on so long about this that fixing behest is going to be a two for one when such changes go into effect. Until then expect the current trend to continue...


Edit to reply to Aur's
Excuse me, but perhaps the term enlighten means 'pester or nag', but to the rest of the working world and the customer service real life world such is appropriate way to respond to an issue. Perhaps the choice or words wasn't best or the player didn't care, but still the difference of a 'few hundred sp' often translates into 20% or more SP loss and plenty of confusion. The group sentiment of most of my behests is organization, precision and SP gain. If someone is not doing it right they will get ousted from the party because of their unwillingness to help.

Its happened many times and Besaid's 'behest superstars' have no tolerance for it. If such a person is a bad leader most won't complain less risking their removal from behest by said leader too. Yes if SE fixed behest to auto link people together into a party and all enemies of behest were rest all the time, then it would be better. Until then for the majority, don't do it solely for the gil or 'completion' as mentioned in OPs post. That is not the primary reason to behest,



Edited, Dec 31st 2010 3:41pm by AceAmallie
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#13 Dec 31 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
Well one thing is for certain, the current SP system is not idiot friendly. You really need to keep an open mind, research, and be willing to learn the system to make it 'somewhat' work.
#14 Dec 31 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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AceAmallie wrote:

Excuse me, but perhaps the term enlighten means 'pester or nag', but to the rest of the working world and the customer service real life world such is appropriate way to respond to an issue. Perhaps the choice or words wasn't best or the player didn't care, but still the difference of a 'few hundred sp' often translates into 20% or more SP loss and plenty of confusion. The group sentiment of most of my behests is organization, precision and SP gain. If someone is not doing it right they will get ousted from the party because of their unwillingness to help.

Its happened many times and Besaid's 'behest superstars' have no tolerance for it. If such a person is a bad leader most won't complain less risking their removal from behest by said leader too. Yes if SE fixed behest to auto link people together into a party and all enemies of behest were rest all the time, then it would be better. Until then for the majority, don't do it solely for the gil or 'completion' as mentioned in OPs post. That is not the primary reason to behest,


Casual friendly means you don't get to count on a community standard of perfection. People will do what people do and as long as they're not wiping the group, it's not worth the fuss to try and change them. For all the people who might be receptive to your feedback, there will be several others who just don't care and you're not going to change that.
#15 Dec 31 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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One word: Campaign.
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#16 Dec 31 2010 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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AceAmallie wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Its really just bad design on the behest's part. I mean, i guess they didn't want 15 people soloing all 15 behest mobs and finishing in 2 minutes, but what they have now kinda sucks. You should never expect a random group of people to all know how to do whats "right" (or best) in the situation.


A design issue for combat which may or may not be addressed on tomorrow's dev post. I think behest will not change too much in the coming months, but then again the nature of behest was meant for a pick up group to establish and probably make a lasting party at its end rather then become an hourly level grind session which lasts for 10 minutes.

Casually it is amazing.
Hardcore it is still amazing, enough to break whatever you are doing and come to camp every hour.

This is where it bumps heads. Casual people don't know and probably don't have the experience in this. Like one shotting enemies with in capitations. Few people even do that now, let alone the newbies. Until party situations are adjusted and battle with a party becomes better or equivalent to a behest such will be the problems surrounding it.

Now I am fully expecting notes on this tomorrow, but it is well known that the communities biggest issues are being solved one at a time and we've been harping on so long about this that fixing behest is going to be a two for one when such changes go into effect. Until then expect the current trend to continue...


Edit to reply to Aur's
Excuse me, but perhaps the term enlighten means 'pester or nag', but to the rest of the working world and the customer service real life world such is appropriate way to respond to an issue. Perhaps the choice or words wasn't best or the player didn't care, but still the difference of a 'few hundred sp' often translates into 20% or more SP loss and plenty of confusion. The group sentiment of most of my behests is organization, precision and SP gain. If someone is not doing it right they will get ousted from the party because of their unwillingness to help.

Its happened many times and Besaid's 'behest superstars' have no tolerance for it. If such a person is a bad leader most won't complain less risking their removal from behest by said leader too. Yes if SE fixed behest to auto link people together into a party and all enemies of behest were rest all the time, then it would be better. Until then for the majority, don't do it solely for the gil or 'completion' as mentioned in OPs post. That is not the primary reason to behest,



Edited, Dec 31st 2010 3:41pm by AceAmallie


What they need to do is allow the behest party to tag multiple groups, and not just have it so that only one group is red at one time. That, or if they don't want people able to engage everything at the same time, then don't let people do that. Have only one spawned group at a time, or only a tagged group can be attacked. The system as it is punishes for lack of a better term, people who aren't 100% on the same page, which is something that you should't be doing for groups that are put together based on who talked to an NPC.
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#17 Dec 31 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I was in a party mix of Japanese and English speakers and we managed to coordinate just fine and everyone attacked the proper targets. I'm with TC.
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#18 Dec 31 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Perhaps I am just lucky, but most of the behests I've been in have been pretty good. Sure, there is the occasional chaos due to unintended aggro, and organization is usually pretty nonexistent. But most of the time people don't attack the mobs that aren't red except by accident due to lack of clear leadership (or when the mob attacks first).

As a newbie though, boy did I make some mistakes! I forgot to turn AOE off and accidentally engaged a whole bunch nonbehest mobs -- learned very quickly not to do that. Though I would have welcomed instruction from more experienced players in regards to less obvious things! On some of my first behests, the party members ran off in different directions so I naturally assumed that there was no reason to stick together, and that we just formed a party so we could all share the end mob. >.< Read the forums here and found out otherwise, thankfully.

Maybe if the battle warden had some message to clue people in, it would work better. It isn't very intuitive for newbies.

Edited, Dec 31st 2010 4:49pm by Dollfie
#19 Dec 31 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
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On Besaid, the Horizon behest is so popular that only people that can quickly claim the Warden when he spawns get in. I actually see people log in 30 secs before he pops (reminds me of timed NM spawns in 11). This ensures that noobs don't get in and the groups run almost flawlessly.

Edited for clarity

Edited, Dec 31st 2010 5:31pm by Lukky
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#20 Dec 31 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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There were idiots in 11 too just like all walks of life.
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