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If XIV went all Star Wars Galaxies on usFollow

#1 Dec 31 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
Due to the last question on the poll, I wonder...

If they completely changed everything but the graphics... what would happen?

I mean right now it couldn't compare to the heartbreak that people suffered when SWG was changed into an arugably better game. However those folks who had paid for months and put so much time into what they had were rightfully PO'd. They left. Game suffered but didn't. It never had a chance to grow again.

What would happen to XIV?

I honestly said I wouldn't mind if they changed things. Other than the box and my time I don't have any investment. I would hope that we'd keep our XP/SP or at least be rewarded somehow if they completely changed things, but I wouldn't be upset starting from scratch if the aknowledged the fact with a special item or two.

Would you leave even if the change was for the better? Would you stick it out even if things didn't go according to plan? Would you jump on the hate FF bandwagon, would you jump off it?

discuss (rationally, as we have 0 information of what COULD happen game wise in the future)
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#2 Dec 31 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Excellent
Just say NO to CU and NGE! Smiley: mad
#3 Dec 31 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
discuss (rationally, as we have 0 information of what COULD happen game wise in the future)


You do realize which forum you're on right?

On point however, if it was for the better, as much as I wouldn't want them to start from scratch I suppose I wouldn't mind if the game was ultimately better for it.
#4 Dec 31 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know all the details behind the SWG shenanigan. All I know is they had a game with niche appeal and then they decided to overhaul it to try and grab a bigger piece of the pie and not only did the pie they were after laugh in their face, the pie they had largely up and left in disgust, too. (laughing, walking pie...go figure...) I don't know if they did a character wipe at the launch of the "new and improved" SWG or if people just felt like everything had changed and the "value" of so much of what they had "worked" for changed with it. All I know is that if Yoshida is going to lead the XIV dev team down the "gut it and start over" road, the time to start in on that process is right now. There can be no delay, and there can be no secrecy. If they're going to overhaul the game they need to get bawls deep in that process with the quickness and they need to be directly forthright with the players still playing the game at every step of development so it's not an enormous shock when the changes get pushed live. Ditching the levequest system altogether in favor of chocobo icons over the heads of NPCs all over the world? Announce it when the decision is made. New DoH class that focuses on making and repairing magitech armor? A good time to mention that might be now.

The reality as I see it is that things are going to get worse before they get better just because no matter what SE decides to do, there's going to be a span of time between now and the time they get the game to the point where they're happy with it, and during that time few are going to come back and many are going to leave. It's not about stopping those people from leaving at this point. It's about building a game that they might someday want to come back to, and a game that might attract the interest of people who have up to now not been subjected to FFXIV a la Tanaka.

And whatever it takes for them to get to that point is what they need to do, even if it means making the (relative) handful of people enjoying what is currently in place unhappy.
#5 Dec 31 2010 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
it's 4am and I'm done typing as the gastronomic pyrotician that got stuck at my house has finally ceased "performing". I have quite a few typo's in my OP, but I'm not going to edit it. I will say happy new years and I can't wait to see what happens (without holding my breath). I enjoy the game now and see an easy path to progression, but I don't hold the big coin purse and if I thought like the majority I assume my name would be green.

I shouldn't have started this thread, but at least there's no major S storms so far. Thank you.
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#6 Dec 31 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good
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Well there are key differences. SWG was out for about 2 years and had a strong loyal fan base before SOE decided to gut it to get more subscribers. FFXIV has only been out for 3 months so the fan base can adapt easier to changes. Also FFXIV has the benefit of a rerelease on PS3 which means new reviews and another chance to enter the public eye.
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#7 Dec 31 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Default
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They would fail probably, taking into account that SE has never had a clue as to what the player base want's lol or how the MMO market operates.
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#8 Dec 31 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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I see the stars aligning(new dev team and PS3 delay) for making larger changes than tweaking the current system. If they were going to do it...the window is now. I'll be playing either way...so I'm more inclined to see them make some big changes. I like chaos...makes things interesting.

It's all about who are they going to alienate...who they think they can upset and not lose as paying customers. I think its fairly obvious who that is. You just need to look at a major focus they had in developing FFXIV vs. who was the avg type of player who quit. What is so different about FFXIV and seems to have a direct impact on most of the facits of the game. I see crafting taking more of a back seat if they want to get players back. It seems like many of the reasons people left comes from their vision of the importanace of crafting. Wards, Durability, limited interesting gear drops, no weapon drops, easy missions....are all directly related to making crafting a job and profitable...and not just a skill like in FFXI.

Don't know...but this one kinda jumps out at me.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 12:08am by Simool
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#9 Dec 31 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Star Wars Galaxies after the NGE was not a "better game" it was a completely different game. SWG Pre-CU was a very solid game that had a niche appeal but offered many game play elements that haven't been seen to this day. Even after the CU the game was still in pretty solid shape but following the NGE everything that made the game unique and worth playing was stripped to try and attract the WoW population.

The NGE was the earliest example of the negative effect WoW has on the MMO market. The game was oversimplified to the extreme. Rather than beginning as a simple cog in the Star Wars Universe you were suddenly the hero of the galaxy, saving your respective faction and interacting improbably with all the key players from the movie. You suddenly had hundreds of Jedi in a time period where there should have been next to none. And the bugs, oh god the bugs. SWG's players had allready dealt with a buggy release when the game first came out, by the time of the NGE the bugs were mostly sorted out. Then they felt the need to completely overhaul the entire game leading to a whole slew of new gamebreaking bugs.

There is no reason FFXIV should take the same path. Contrary to what the trolls believe the game has good foundations to work with. The whole game does not need to be overhauled. Let them move forward from here instead of having to rebuild the entire thing from the ground up.
#10 Dec 31 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Simool wrote:
I see the stars aligning(new dev team and PS3 delay) for making larger changes than tweaking the current system. If they were going to do it...the window is now. I'll be playing either way...so I'm more inclined to see them make some big changes. I like chaos...makes things interesting.

It's all about who are they going to alienate...who they think they can upset and not lose as paying customers. I think its fairly obvious who that is. You just need to look at a major focus they had in developing FFXIV vs. who was the avg type of player who quit. What is so different about FFXIV and seems to have a direct impact on most of the facits of the game. I see crafting taking more of a back seat if they want to get players back. It seems like many of the reasons people left comes from their vision of the importanace of crafting. Wards, Durability, limited interesting gear drops, no weapon drops, easy missions....are all directly related to making crafting a job and profitable...and not just a skill like in FFXI.

Don't know...but this one kinda jumps out at me.


The lion's share of the weapons of weapons and gear through the early levels in FFXI were crafted, too. It's just that there was over a year during which the Japanese had an opportunity to create the supply that we enjoyed as NA players starting the game and there was an auction house that made it easier to browse upgrades. One of the long standing complaints in FFXI (and any other MMO, for that matter) is that it's difficult for people to earn any substantial amount of currency by making and selling gear because any market for any item can so rapidly reach a point of functional saturation that the price drops out and it's hard to sell anything for more than it cost you to make it. That would be an issue whether crafting was its own class or just another appendage onto your standard combat class system.
#11 Dec 31 2010 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, I've been building a character knowing full well that so much will change. MMOs evolve or die, granted they released a beta so the curve is a little steeper, but you get my point.

December patch = releasable game

Much more to come, and many clunky areas revisited .. the time put into ranks now will not vanish. If people want to emo-quit then so be it, prolly left with a better fan-base after anyways :P
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#12 Dec 31 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
I don't know all the details behind the SWG shenanigan.

I do know what happened, I used to be a Ranger/Creature Handler/Rifleman/Medic in SWG before the NGE hit.

In a nutshell, SWG allowed you to buy skills. Everyone had only a skill they started with, you could buy other novice skills and you built upon that. You ended up with Stormtroopers using carbine rifles that were also Master Dancer and all kinds of weird combinations of jobs.

When the NGE hit they changed the system entirely to you pick a job you can only do that job and have very little options for specialisation. In the process they also changed the interface and targetting system, effectively break the part where you kept things targetted if someone walked through your cursor, which was a nightmare for the musician/entertainer who couldn't keep some of their instruments targetted anymore. You also couldn't sit in chairs anymore for a while and they completely removed Creature Handler and made it so you could Bio Engineer some animals but not as many as the creature handler could tame from wild animals.

People were, rightly so, very upset about this change to dumb down the game and left en masse and most never returned leaving entire player cities with hate messages ingame about the NGE which weren't removed for a long time because they also broke the system that should clear out houses if they run out of rent.

I wasn't happy with this change either, I tried it for a couple months but eventually left because everyone that I knew had left long before I did. They didn't reset your levels though, it was just so drastically changed that you were put into a single job.

I wouldn't be happy with such a change in this game either, I'm 30 carpenter now and well on my way to being able to fix my rank 42 fishing rod. Would be even more upset if I lost all my character progress.

Edit: Typo in interface and found My SWG character from before the NGE.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 12:30am by DJvGalen
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#13 Dec 31 2010 at 11:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Not to poke fun at you Perrin, but I find it kind of funny that defenders of the game are now writing the impending doom and gloom threads.

I think most people who play this game that are having fun are having more fun being with their LS and doing stuff than actually playing the game... if you understand what I'm getting at.

If you haven't, go do some gathering. If you get into Tier 3 and come across the eagle feathers which essentially make you waste an attempt or get the random obscure spot which takes more than 3 attempts to locate and you can still say you are having fun logging/mining, let me know.

Next, try fishing because it's even cooler. Not do you to do the hot/cold minigame, you get to play "guess where the hook point is" and if you're not very lucky, you get to fail the attempt at fishing all together and get to wait for another bite. Then you can go for several attempts at a time even with bait that "the fish are biting on" and still get "nothing bites". When you get to that point, please tell me if you are still having fun.

I could go on through crafting (20+) and even battle mechanics. The base of the game is not a whole lot of fun. I would have to say it does, really need more than "a little tweak" here and there. Does SE need to break out the wrecking ball to the system like they did in SWG? Probably not. If you have people to distract you from the annoyances and the dullness of some of these things, yes, the game can be a lot of fun. But it's the people who are making the game fun not the game itself entertaining you.

I will welcome any change big or small if it lets me go in the game, do something, smile and say, "That was fun."
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#14 Dec 31 2010 at 11:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
They would fail probably, taking into account that SE has never had a clue as to what the player base want's lol or how the MMO market operates.


lololol omg your so funny! Smiley: rolleyes

P.S. huge props on the "want's" with the apostrophe s.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 1:21am by SolidMack
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#15 Jan 01 2011 at 12:06 AM Rating: Good
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shinichoco wrote:
Not to poke fun at you Perrin, but I find it kind of funny that defenders of the game are now writing the impending doom and gloom threads.

I think most people who play this game that are having fun are having more fun being with their LS and doing stuff than actually playing the game... if you understand what I'm getting at.

If you haven't, go do some gathering. If you get into Tier 3 and come across the eagle feathers which essentially make you waste an attempt or get the random obscure spot which takes more than 3 attempts to locate and you can still say you are having fun logging/mining, let me know.

Next, try fishing because it's even cooler. Not do you to do the hot/cold minigame, you get to play "guess where the hook point is" and if you're not very lucky, you get to fail the attempt at fishing all together and get to wait for another bite. Then you can go for several attempts at a time even with bait that "the fish are biting on" and still get "nothing bites". When you get to that point, please tell me if you are still having fun.

I could go on through crafting (20+) and even battle mechanics. The base of the game is not a whole lot of fun. I would have to say it does, really need more than "a little tweak" here and there. Does SE need to break out the wrecking ball to the system like they did in SWG? Probably not. If you have people to distract you from the annoyances and the dullness of some of these things, yes, the game can be a lot of fun. But it's the people who are making the game fun not the game itself entertaining you.

I will welcome any change big or small if it lets me go in the game, do something, smile and say, "That was fun."


I'm still having fun with crafting & gatheringSmiley: grin. I think that's where they got a lot right in this game. What I find strange is that fighting is my last resort option rather than something I look forward to. Like I mentioned in the poll thread, I would be interested in some serious changes for combat and I'm looking forward to content in that regard. Because I want that to be something I really look forward to. I don't think they need to change much with DoH/DoL though...
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#16 Jan 01 2011 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:

I'm still having fun with crafting & gatheringSmiley: grin. I think that's where they got a lot right in this game. What I find strange is that fighting is my last resort option rather than something I look forward to. Like I mentioned in the poll thread, I would be interested in some serious changes for combat and I'm looking forward to content in that regard. Because I want that to be something I really look forward to. I don't think they need to change much with DoH/DoL though...


I wish someone would tell me what I was doing wrong then. At 20 in almost every DoH job, 50s in just about all crafting stats, control being the lower of the 3, I still can go from easily completing a synth at or slightly above my level to failing every standard synth even under the effects of MM and Fulfillment and struggling to get to 50% on the next syth with literally nothing changing between the previous synth and the failed one. Training or not (Brass Rings, GLD or fish synths with chemicking training for alchemy). I don't really get it, no one can really explain it to me and I don't find it a whole lot of fun especially since I cannot learn anything from it. I have no clue why I am failing. Added: Just to add, succeeding isn't really that fun either, though. Spam standard standard standard... yawn. HQs are too random... If I knew, for example, I would get a HQ1 item at like 150 quality, then I could like work up to that and see if I could make it. That might make it a little more fun, depending on how they did it, but... right now it's just kinda spam spam spam meh. ><;

DoL even fishing, admittedly I have gotten better at. At the very least it is easier for me to find things. I still find the hot/cold game kind of dull and sometimes there are just spots that are completely obscure. It's even worse when I am, literally, like 3 pixels off my last mark which hit the item and I end up missing it and not getting anything. But I absolutely hate the hooking part of fishing and the "nothing bites" when I am using bait I know the fish are biting on (the game tells me now, after all.)

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 6:28am by shinichoco
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#17 Jan 01 2011 at 12:19 AM Rating: Decent
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they have nothing to lose, already lots of people left and the numbers that still play are not that much, even the ones still playing are waiting to see what the new team going to do, and if they didnt like it they will leave.

i say we are in beta, let the wipe the game if they like and build a new one, if this going to help ffxiv.

i hope it does.
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#18 Jan 01 2011 at 12:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I would like many things changed, but my levels, sp, and items better not be touched. The only reason I am still playing is to advance my character so that I will be in a good position once the game is complete. If all of my work is flushed down the drain, I will be furious. It is simply unacceptable to me. I don't think that it will happen, because it just seems unnecessary to me. The classes themselves are fine in terms of their roles, but they could be set apart and made more unique, and this shouldnt require the erasing of all of our progress. I wouldn't mind if they rethought or redid the zones, which I don't like because I feel like they made them big at the expense of the scenery, so that instead of having multiple zones which each have a unique feel and interesting look, we have 5 outdoor zones that are huge but are kind of bland and and very repetitive. Also, CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT. I cannot stress that enough. The game feels empty at times.
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#19 Jan 01 2011 at 12:42 AM Rating: Default
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SolidMack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
They would fail probably, taking into account that SE has never had a clue as to what the player base want's lol or how the MMO market operates.


lololol omg your so funny! Smiley: rolleyes

P.S. huge props on the "want's" with the apostrophe s.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 1:21am by SolidMack


Truth is hilarious at times right ?
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#20 Jan 01 2011 at 12:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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shinichoco wrote:


I wish someone would tell me what I was doing wrong then. At 20 in almost every DoH job, 50s in just about all crafting stats, control being the lower of the 3, I still can go from easily completing a synth at or slightly above my level to failing every standard synth even under the effects of MM and Fulfillment and struggling to get to 50% on the next syth with literally nothing changing between the previous synth and the failed one. Training or not (Brass Rings, GLD or fish synths with chemicking training for alchemy). I don't really get it, no one can really explain it to me and I don't find it a whole lot of fun especially since I cannot learn anything from it. I have no clue why I am failing.

DoL even fishing, admittedly I have gotten better at. At the very least it is easier for me to find things. I still find the hot/cold game kind of dull and sometimes there are just spots that are completely obscure. It's even worse when I am, literally, like 3 pixels off my last mark which hit the item and I end up missing it and not getting anything. But I absolutely hate the hooking part of fishing and the "nothing bites" when I am using bait I know the fish are biting on (the game tells me now, after all.)


Haha, I know exactly what you're talking about with the gathering and missing the spot by a tiny margin. I've run into that plenty of times.

As for the crafting, I don't trust suggested ranks on this site, yg, pro, etc. I use them as a guideline, but they still don't have it perfect. In cases like the new fish > crystal synths, they tend to lump similar synths together as say "R30 Alchemist" and then I find one that's much harder. So in some cases, it's not always you being the problem or running into bad luck. Also, lets say I go 1/2 on a synth. Was the success really lucky or normal? Or was the fail really unlucky or normal? So yea, I agree that it can be confusing & frustrating. Trial & error is pretty much how I go about it and if something is giving me too much trouble I wait until next rank and do something else. Making my own judgments on the suggested ranks for things.

I guess it's easy to say everything's working fine when you've gotten used to the system. I'm not saying DoH/DoL are 100% perfect and don't need tweaking, but that I don't think they belong in the discussions of drastic changes & overhauls.

Edit- I kinda use 150 Quality as a mark to shoot for to have a good chance at HQing. I can still sometimes get the random HQ with crap quality and get 150+ & end up with an NQ. But it seems to be working more as it should since the last update I think.

And for fishing, make sure you're not jumping to a higher grade spot too soon. The SP is tempting, but similar to fighting you have to deal with less SP per fish for better SP/hr sometimes. I could listen to my own advice there because I'm doing grade 4 now to get a particular fish and losing a lot of bites because of it. I'd probably be better at Grade 3 still, but I can use those fish for alchemy!Smiley: grin

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 1:56am by TwistedOwl
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#21 Jan 01 2011 at 1:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, I can't see how changing literally everything about this game could fail. I'm aware of what SWG did with their game, and weather i agree or not, they had a subscription base afterwords who was happy with the changes. Clearly, if they did better after their change, it was overall better for the company. Personally, I think FFXIV is in neede of such a change, but I'm just one person who shelled out their collectors fee trying to be heard.
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#22 Jan 01 2011 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
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How could this game possibly get any worse

I'm just not seeing it
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#23 Jan 01 2011 at 2:50 AM Rating: Good
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"Fun, live, reboot, rebuild" These are the new buzz word Producer Yoshida is using. It looks like he has big plans in mind and that isn't always a bad thing. Change can be very positive. Take Bliz's reboot of the core world of WoW. The questing aspect has become more streamline and immersive. Gone are the days when you head to the main town, grap 10+ quest of kill/gather, rinse and repeat. Now you have progess through the zone from one point to the next moving forward the narrative. The goblin are making Azshara their new home and you are doing progessive quest that make that reality.

Now don't think i'm here to praise all things WoW mind you. In fact, now that I've reached Outland my interest level went from 100 to 10.... I'm currently beta test DCUO >_>' I still want to love FFXIV and hope the new development team can make the changes that everyone wants to see.
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#24 Jan 01 2011 at 3:31 AM Rating: Good
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I chose I would be for a major overhaul on last question.

So much of this game is fine with me the leveling needs to be faster in groups hands down. But on same note its awesome that you can solo if you want at a decent speed. It should never be at the same speed that a party can level up at. Balancing them to be equal is stupid and i cant beleive that SE even thought it would fly.

That being said I am ready to get off the Hate FFxIV Bandwaggon just look what it did to my rep so far and I have only been feigning it, I freaking love this game and all the people i met in it are awesome. I run my own Linkshell it has alot of good active players in it. Its an ongoing joke amongst us that everyone in ZAM forums hates me.

I am a very loveable and generous guy if you actually know me.

They need to do a few things that i would consider a major overhaul.

Consider adding instanced dungeons with static bosses with set loot.

Get away from Levequests being the Mainstreeme content. It is exactly the same system that Blizzard uses that they call Dailies, and used for the same exact purpose faction rep to obtain items. But this type of content is never the Main content in a MMO and that fact that SE decided to make it such is dissapointing to say the least.

They need to add quests alot of quests even if they are optional you should be able to stumble across a new quest that you didnt know about every day or at elast every week.

Building on previous suggestion they need to restructure how theydistribute abilities. You should not obtain rank 40 and automatically get a awesome new ability you ashould have to do a fight that might even require help from a friend to acomplish to earn this ability or at least a few milestone ranks worth 20 30 40 50 etc.

They need to implement other means of travel now instead of later, we need Chocobos and Airships. I dont think that a PS3 player is really going to feel extra buthurt that someoen else rode a chocobo before them. If they do then I realy truely dont give a crap thats their thousands of dollars that they need to spend on counciling and mental help not mine.

They need to put in some more stringent party ranks restrictions and implement optional rank syncing. Just not so necessary that every popular spot dies like in FFXI they need to do it smart nto just acrelessly implemented.

Thanks for your time.

EDIT: They also need to add official forums and have official experts on the game comment on post and leak info about upcomming patching similar to how WOW and other games do their forums. You notice her ein Zam maybe 51 people post to a thread and 3k people read it . I would like to see 50,000 reads and 5,000 replies with at least 5-6 replies being feedback from a developer.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 4:43am by cornyboob

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 4:44am by cornyboob
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#25 Jan 01 2011 at 3:34 AM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
They would fail probably, taking into account that SE has never had a clue as to what the player base want's lol or how the MMO market operates.


lololol omg your so funny! Smiley: rolleyes

P.S. huge props on the "want's" with the apostrophe s.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 1:21am by SolidMack


Truth is hilarious at times right ?


Yes it is, and the fact that you get douchier with every post...how is that for truth? I'll give you time to laugh it off.
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#26 Jan 01 2011 at 3:43 AM Rating: Decent
Cornyboob Funnyname's Inventory now contains Chicken Breast.
#27 Jan 01 2011 at 3:47 AM Rating: Decent
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DargothlDraconia wrote:
Cornyboob Funnyname's Inventory now contains Chicken Breast.


Im so keeping those vulture fletchings now !!!
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#28 Jan 01 2011 at 4:48 AM Rating: Excellent
I opted for the 'I don't mind if you make big changes' option or whatever the actual wording was but I would be annoyed if my class was set back to 0 or something. Probably would be the only time I would consider quiting.
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#29 Jan 01 2011 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
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I voted no on the drastic changes. I think the foundation for the game is great as it is. It just needs a lot more content in pretty much every area, and some mild tweaks here and there, like either reducing solo/doblyn sp or raising party sp.

But if they changed it to an action/hack and slash mmo, or copy pasted a WoW clone onto it or something, I'd definitely quit. I don't play other mmo's because they are all terrible imo, I play SE's mmo's because they are great imo. Sure, this one is unfinished, but I'd prefer if they stuck to their current course, and just kept working on it. That's all it needs... imo. :P

However if they changed it, and I still liked what it became, I'd be fine with starting over. I don't play for gear or stats, I play for fun. So as long as I'm having it, I'll stay around. Right now, I do have fun in the game, but there are a few annoyances... Hunting down mats for crafting is fine with me as far as time sinks go, same with farming and such, as is taking a long time to reach high lvls... But the actual synth process is a bit too time consuming.

And lvling taking ages is also fine for an mmo, but I want more stuff to do along the way, and party based lvling is an absolute must. If I want a solo friendly game, I'll play a solo game. I play mmo's when I want to play with other people, not just have a chat room up in game. I want to actually be playing with those people. Solo sp should be only 20% as good as party sp imo, maybe up to 50% in rare, ideal circumstances. It's fine having it for ppl who only have 20 mins to play, but ppl who play and want to solo sp for 3-4 hours should be playing something else, and the game should not be catered to them.
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#30 Jan 01 2011 at 6:43 AM Rating: Good
shinichoco wrote:
Not to poke fun at you Perrin, but I find it kind of funny that defenders of the game are now writing the impending doom and gloom threads.


I didn't realise I was writing about impending doom. I just figured it could be fun, if not nearly impossible, to have a civil discussion about how much the game could change before people would get upset. As I drunkenly said initally, we don't know what they are planning or anything and I don't have a serious investment in the game yet so it doesn't matter too much. It's all a discussion about speculation... just like every 3rd thread o.O
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#31 Jan 01 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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Keep in mind that after SWG had said changes, it went under until it was brought back from the dead and rolled back to before the "game-breaking" patch.

When you buy a MMO you expect it to evolve, not mutate into something else altogether =p
That being said, I wouldn't mind if they scrapped the Broken Regimen system for the renkei (skillchain) system of XI.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 2:35pm by Uryuu
#32 Jan 01 2011 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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246 posts
I chose the option saying I would be alright if the did drastic changes to the game. If it makes the game better, then I am don't have a problem with that. I'm not naturally a huge fan of huge change when I'm used to things being a certain way. But I know that change can be really good if done right. I want FFXIV to work, I want it to be a game that I play for years. I don't want to play it for six months and then be uninspired to play anymore. I want the character that I created to grow and have a long and interesting story. I don't want it to fizzle out.

If SE makes major changes for the better, then I'm all for it. If we all start off from scratch, then so be it. I hope they give something to the players that have been playing since the beginning if the hit the reset button. Like let us gain xp at an extremely high rate and have a whole lot of gil to make up for items that we had. Something like that, I believe, would lessen the blow to people that have went and achieved a lot already in this game. If they use common sense and listen to us (not talking about the customers that are talking nonsense. Sorry, some customers aren't right lol.) then if the make major changes they won't have a huge mass of unhappy gamers.
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#33 Jan 01 2011 at 9:36 AM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
SolidMack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
They would fail probably, taking into account that SE has never had a clue as to what the player base want's lol or how the MMO market operates.


lololol omg your so funny! Smiley: rolleyes

P.S. huge props on the "want's" with the apostrophe s.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 1:21am by SolidMack


Truth is hilarious at times right ?


Yes it is, and the fact that you get douchier with every post...how is that for truth? I'll give you time to laugh it off.


somebody is butthurt for my lack of confidence in SE lol
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#34 Jan 01 2011 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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71 posts
I don't get the big issue as the game is we have been targeting "playable" and after taking a serious look at what other devs are doing they should target a little higher. Have any of us taken the time to put aside defending or trolling this game and consider what else is coming out this year? Simply put getting the game to playable may just mean having a pretty game without much content and nothing to make it distinguishable from the rest of the crowd except its title as an FF series game.

It is true drastic changes to this game could ruin it but at this point unless the public thinks things have changed drastically its stilled ruined. There really isn't anything to lose and at worst they may alienate the 30k or so people playing right now who aren't even paying the sub yet and attract 100k who will keep this game going a long time. This is one of those times I think we were asked not because they really wanted to know but because they wanted to warn us. Whether you agree or not about it it likely doesn't matter. If you sit back and look at the situation its the right move. Not only will it garner enough press to maybe save the ps3 release the fact is there Rift to deal with SWTOR and maybe GW2 by the end of the year. If they wait too long they wont be able to recover and we may end up in F2P or worse the game shuts down. Any cries over big changes will likely fall on deaf ears as the business side of SE sits down and weighs the situation like adults. Many tend to ignore the numbers get caught up in emotions but fact are facts. The needs to make money to survive and that's it. The foolishness of SWG bares no need of mention its a completely different situation. SE likely wont mind losing us if it we attract the numbers they need. This has little to do with grabbing the lions share of the market and more to do with saving an investment. Hopefully our beloved little game survive this trial.
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#35 Jan 01 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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Heya,
First off, to believe that that the last question means a complete rebuild is silly. Without shutting the game down it would be far fetched to say the least. But a replacemnet of the battle system, auction house and the rng crafting would be just what they are asking a changing of some of the major rules in eorzea.

Secondly, while there are many good things to be said for the game in its current state, I cannot honestly say that a major overhaul is not whats needed. I am playing the game, even enjoying it but I can tell you at least for me this is not a 9 year game like ffxi was. Maybe a one year game like wow, get in level to max rank in 1 - 2 months raid end game finish the newest "hardest content" in 3 weeks, then wait for them to dumb it down so litterally anyone can do it. Then 3 months later they come out with something new. While wow has a ton of content it is so easy that they need to add major content every 3 months. This is not what SE has done in the past. But SE built epic games that gave you a sense of accomplishment. Remember when you finally stepped foot in sea? That feeling that wow im finally here. Thats what I want from this game is 1 game to play and invest my time into.

/end rant

thanks,
Big Jer
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#36 Jan 01 2011 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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1,218 posts
PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:


I mean right now it couldn't compare to the heartbreak that people suffered when SWG was changed into an arugably better game.


Warning: Strong Opinion Ahead: I don't think any one who played both versions with an open mind could reasonably argue that post revamp SWG was even remotely better than pre revamp. It was unquestionably a worse game for the same reason a radical, on the fly redesign of FFXIV would be worse: it's a radical, on the fly re design.

An MMO is a massive undertaking where you're asking people to put down money and continue to play for years and years. To get people that invested, your game has to have a "soul." There's got to be something there beyond the surface flash, some principle or idea around which the entire thing has been built. Without a solid, unifying vision, your game is just an aimless clone of something else.

There's just no way to transplant a fresh soul into an existing game. If FFXIV was made properly, then all the art, the interface, the design of the world, etc are all part of a whole, designed purposely to fit together. They can't simply be pulled apart and reconstructed like Frankenstein's monster.

That's the problem with SWG and the "revamp." Could SWG have been good as a level based grinder? Sure, if it had been designed that way from day one, and iterated and refined with a vision for what it would do differently and where it would excel. Instead, it was created almost from whole cloth within the span of a few months, using a generic template stolen liberally from EQ/FFXI/WOW, with the vision of having "WoW-like" success. It was never going to succeed, regardless of how ****** off or not ****** off the old customers were, because there was never any soul to hook the new customers.


Edited, Jan 1st 2011 1:46pm by KarlHungis
#37 Jan 01 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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71 posts
Just took the poll, and I said I would be for a major overhaul. I think that it can be done without resetting our characters. There really isn't enough content even in the game for the kind of complete reset that SWG saw. I think the overhaul needs to be with how they approach future developments to the game, as well as with what they go back and re-do or fix. I chose combat as the first thing I would like to see addressed. It sometimes feels to me like I am playing the same job but with different weapons when I switch classes, and the battle regimen system needs to be thrown away in favor of something much more simple and useful. I also dislike the weapon skill animations, as they reuse the same animations for multiple weapon skills, only adding enough so they can say it is technically not the same. They should not be afraid to adopt and improve on the successful aspects of ffxi, like its weapon skills and magic burst system.
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#38 Jan 01 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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12,824 posts
Reinvention of this game is almost a mandate, at this point. They made such a dog's dinner of this game that anything less will lead to the eventual demise of the game.

With that said, reinvention does not have to mean destruction of the game's current elements. They did a lot right in some areas, I have to admit the gathering interface is miles ahead of what they did in FFXI, but it needs to make some more logical sense, or be less random in what you get. Explaining how to control it would also be something they need to do.

Basic functions of the game need to be made more easily understood without putting in hours of research on websites or being left a mystery to be guessed at.

Crafting needs a ground up overhaul. Sorry crafters, but it does. It takes too long to make a single good, and there's not nearly enough information on how to do it properly without, again, resorting to third-party sites.

Combat mechanics need a good deal of reworking.

An AH HAS to be made.

Housing needs to be added.

Grind has to be lightened at ALL stages of the game.

Basic errors NEED to be fixed.

And most of all, they need to do this FAST. Why? Because every month that goes by without some form of change, the longer it will take to turn around the public view of this game.
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#39 Jan 01 2011 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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11,576 posts
KarlHungis wrote:
PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:


I mean right now it couldn't compare to the heartbreak that people suffered when SWG was changed into an arugably better game.


Warning: Strong Opinion Ahead: I don't think any one who played both versions with an open mind could reasonably argue that post revamp SWG was even remotely better than pre revamp. It was unquestionably a worse game for the same reason a radical, on the fly redesign of FFXIV would be worse: it's a radical, on the fly re design.


Didn't SWG have more players at the time of the revamp than FFXIV has now? I mean, at the time of the revamp, had SOE given away 3 months (and counting) of free play to their players just to try and keep them around? My understanding is that SWG had an established playerbase and they were making money and the only reason they decided to go for the revamp was because they saw the kinds of numbers WoW was bringing in and they got greedy. The 'why' behind the revamp has to be taken into very serious consideration. This isn't a case of Yoshida pondering substantial changes to make a profitable game even more profitable. This is a case of a game with a failed launch that is hemorrhaging players and they need to do something about that with the quickness. A few years ago nobody would have ever believed that you could launch an MMO and have to pull the plug on the servers a few months later because it just bombed. We've seen now that that's not the case, and SE is not in the kind of financial shape where they can afford to keep pouring millions of dollars into this thing for the next two years to keep it afloat unless they get it to the point where people are willing to start paying a monthly sub.

****, even on these very boards while SE was beta testing FFXIV we had people proclaiming with confidence that even 10,000 players paying a monthly sub would be enough to keep the game running. Now we can safely say that if the game remains as it is, its lifespan will be measured in months, not years. Something has to change, and it's not going to be tweaks to SP gain and new leves/NMs that do the trick.
#40 Jan 01 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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123 posts
tylerbee wrote:
How could this game possibly get any worse

I'm just not seeing it




It can always get worse.

They could force you to find a group of 5 people before you can do the simplest of guildleves.
#41 Jan 01 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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KingWinterclaw wrote:
tylerbee wrote:
How could this game possibly get any worse

I'm just not seeing it




It can always get worse.

They could force you to find a group of 5 people before you can do the simplest of guildleves.


Even that would be an improvement in my eyes

Right now its solo or go home
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#42 Jan 01 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,083 posts
Aurelius wrote:
All I know is they had a game site with niche appeal and then they decided to overhaul it to try and grab a bigger piece of the pie and not only did the pie they were after laugh in their face, the pie they had largely up and left in disgust, too.


Reminds me of digg.com

Let's not do this to ffxiv just yet -.-

suck it digg >.>

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#43 Jan 01 2011 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
16 posts
I said yes to drastic changes, because I know the things about FFXIV that people actually like will stay there and not be thrown out. Why would they be thrown out if people already like them? He's talking about listening to players, so if there's stuff already in the game people enjoy it's possible to make drastic changes to the other stuff people hate while keeping the stuff we like alone.

I honestly don't know why anyone would pick no to that question. Picking yes doesn't automatically mean a completely different game will emerge and that everything you liked will be gone. Unless the only things you like are stuff that everyone else absolutely hates.
#44 Jan 01 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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137 posts
I think SE should just tell everyone they are playing beta. Give people who are testing shinny toys (weapons, pets, gear, etc...) for the trouble and relaunch. That is if SE think it can attract more players. If not then they are stuck with a top heavy group with little hope of new players.

SE is in a big bind with FFXIV. Not sure what the heck they are going to do to retain players as well as attract new players. They have three big road block. The bad rep, when to start charging, and highly anticipated MMO being release this spring. Se is not going to get many game site to take an indept look at the fixes they have done. So overcoming the horrible coverage will be an up hill battle. The next issue is when do they start to charge? How many people will actualy leave if this game wasn't free? And finaly the new MMO. How many will leave and when they do leave they aren't coming back any time soon. People will give these new release a few months before some start to bail. When the quit MMO (insert name), I honestly believe they will they try the other new release before thinking about FFXIV.

One can only imagine how different things would have been had they fix things and released Jan 2011 instead of Oct 2010.
#45 Jan 01 2011 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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131 posts
Well player housing is supposed to be added when true clans/guilds (Companies) are added to the game. I think airships are supposed to be implemented with that as well, since they mentioned them being a way to take player companies to specific content.

The game really does need an accelerated update schedule with at least 1-2 updates a month, until there is enough content/things fixed to hold people over for longer update gaps.
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#46 Jan 01 2011 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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shinichoco wrote:


Next, try fishing because it's even cooler. Not do you to do the hot/cold minigame, you get to play "guess where the hook point is" and if you're not very lucky, you get to fail the attempt at fishing all together and get to wait for another bite. Then you can go for several attempts at a time even with bait that "the fish are biting on" and still get "nothing bites". When you get to that point, please tell me if you are still having fun.



You just obviously don't know how to fish.

[edit]

Try spoon lures, thanlan docks, 1 notch above middle, and then jig to two fifths to the left then two fifths to the right. Shark city.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 5:42pm by Olorinus
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#47 Jan 01 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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437 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:

You just obviously don't know how to fish.

[edit]

Try spoon lures, thanlan docks, 1 notch above middle, and then jig to two fifths to the left then two fifths to the right. Shark city.


I do know how to fish. In fact, I am just 4 levels under your banner level there for fishing. It does not change the fact that during guildleves or even fishing for certain fish I can go out to say... The Black Shroud and use choco or crow flies and have the fish jumping on the hook then 5 minutes later "nothing bites" for the next 5 casts, then they start biting again. Hooking is annoying because for some reason or another the position will occasionally change on me. I'll be hooking fish about midway down the left hand side of the gauge, then all of a sudden the game will take nowhere else but the very bottom of the left hand side of the gauge. Then it will change again after a while.
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#48 Jan 01 2011 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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SW:G had been around for a while and already had an expansion when they decided to revamp everything. It didn't come out of the gate as a steaming pile of, well ff14.
#49 Jan 01 2011 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
tylerbee wrote:
How could this game possibly get any worse

I'm just not seeing it


says the physical level 47 player who's levels seem to keep rising... >.>

Edited, Jan 2nd 2011 12:00am by BartelX
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#50 Jan 01 2011 at 11:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hrmm.

I wanted to agree with KarlHungus and hoped that SE wouldn't do an off-the-cuff-redesign.

But I was thinking...

If SE had 5+ years, plus our copious feedback in Alpha and Beta in the last year, and we still ended up with what we ended up with, what would they exactly, 'mess up?'

Plus in the short amount of time that SE has to make changes what could they possibly do to alter the game inoperable, or even more unplayable.

I'm beginning to think that a redesign is not only to be considered but absolutely necessary.

I could think of 100's of things that would still use the bones of the game but drastically alter how the game works; ideas I would implement, like for one, different UI's for the different classes; making a more defined experience.

From what I briefly read about SWG, the changes were to appease or to attract more players rather than make a better game. In FFXIV's case I think Aurelius is right; SE is at a crossroads with their finger in the proverbial **** and they're calling on us to help it from busting wide open.
#51 Jan 01 2011 at 11:34 PM Rating: Decent
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89 posts
I don't see any other choices for Square. The current system is not just bad, it appears to be deliberately designed to be the worst system that they could ship without getting prematurely fired. The problem is that it's easy to design a better system than what we have now but it is not that easy to design a good system. So if they re-designed the game I might come back but that depends. Ideally they should have just brought over the FF XI changing the things they probably wanted to change for years but could not. They could try something new but chances are that it won't be good enough under the existing time constraints.
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