Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3
This Forum is Read Only

A message to all the crafters of FFXIVFollow

#1 Jan 01 2011 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
*
69 posts
#2 Jan 01 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*****
12,707 posts
The way I see it, crafters believe that there's no low level/new people coming into the game anymore and they won't make a lot of money selling cheap gear, so it's partially greed keeping the higher level crafters from selling low level stuff/cheap stuff and mostly ranking up in a pain in the *** so they don't bother with stuff they will get like 1 sp from.

____________________________

#3 Jan 01 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
A smart crafter would see this and turn it to their advantage...
#4 Jan 01 2011 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
yea seriously, I've been looking for ****** armor at rank 26 and can't find a **** piece, crafters get on this, there's a market for this stuff!
____________________________
MUTED
#5 Jan 01 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,576 posts
The way I see it, there are too many barriers built into the game in order for it to be worth my while to craft lowbie gear. In order for me to make lowbie gear and make it available to purchase in the market wards I would have to:

1) Set aside time to make the gear which is hard to do when progressing my own character is such a heinous time sink.
2) Restrict access to one of my retainers to place them in the wards so it's easier for you to find the gear I'm selling.
3) Use shards that I never have enough of in order to make the gear.

And my reward for doing so and providing those items at a price that is new-player friendly would be a trivial sum of gil and the heartwarming satisfaction of knowing I'm helping to gear someone who is probably going to get fed up with the game and quit in a month anyways.

So...umm...sorry? SE made a ****** system. That's the heart of the issue, not what crafters are or aren't doing to make the game new player friendly.
#6 Jan 01 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,576 posts
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
A smart crafter would see this and turn it to their advantage...


There is no advantage to this. I don't gain SP from gear below rank 20. I can't sell that gear for a profit that makes it worth my while. My gaming experience is hindered by restricting access to my storage by placing a retainer in the wards. I'm not going to charge a new player 100k for a suit of bronze chainmail, and I'm not going to make the yarn to make the cloth to make the tabard pieces to make the tabard that is combined with the bronze chain sheets that I made from the rings that I made from the wire that I made from the ingots and finally combined into the chainmail for 20k gil.

Too many barriers and no incentive to overcome them.
#7 Jan 01 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
I'm not sure if its ironic, or just plain dumb. SE made it harder to resell used gear by having it be repaired by players in order to resell it. This was so that crafters could continue to sell lower level items throughout the games lifetime. But crafter's don't seem to want to actually do that, so at the end of the day, lowbies are just going to have to use r30+ gear.
____________________________


#8 Jan 01 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
I've been making a lot of money selling reasonably priced weapons for THM and CON between R5 and R22

for other weapons though I can't make them fully myself and people don't sell the components - so either I gotta pester my LS mates for bits or gotta shout or something - AND I would have to stop selling mage weapons cause I can really only afford to have 1 retainer at a time stuck in a ward.

So I sell mage weapons.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 2:50pm by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#9 Jan 01 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
Because the market ward crashs 10 times a day.

Seriously, on days that market ward doesn't crash, I can find anything from r7 to r47. That or your server is underpopulated.
____________________________




#10 Jan 01 2011 at 6:07 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,120 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
I'm not sure if its ironic, or just plain dumb. SE made it harder to resell used gear by having it be repaired by players in order to resell it. This was so that crafters could continue to sell lower level items throughout the games lifetime. But crafter's don't seem to want to actually do that, so at the end of the day, lowbies are just going to have to use r30+ gear.


Along with Aurelius making some great points above, I'll add that from my experience working up through the weaving ranks, a large % of players would be passing on hempen & cotton when canvas was the new big thing. Then passing on canvas when velveteen was readily available, etc. I'm sure it's similar with other crafts. People would buy above their rank because looks > stats for a lot of people. So along with us crafters preferring to make stuff we can skillup on, it was also the buyers that made me say "Why bother making lower stuff if they're gonna ignore it". Which did of course end up ******** the people looking for gear their rank.

It goes way beyond just gear though. It's often harder to find lower-rank glues, dyes, & other mats because the competition is fighting over the higher-rank stuff. You see some people catching on and finding a niche to sell lower rank stuff here n there, but you still don't see a lot of it yet.
____________________________

#11 Jan 01 2011 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
**
323 posts
Quote:
I'm not going to make the yarn to make the cloth to make the tabard pieces to make the tabard that is combined with the bronze chain sheets that I made from the rings that I made from the wire that I made from the ingots and finally combined into the chainmail for 20k gil.



This.
____________________________
Amnzero Arrowburn 80/153 Ranger Najena ~The Dying Sun~ EQ2
Amnzero FFXI 60nin/war Phoenix -Sword Arts-
Fishing 67 Cooking 88
#12 Jan 01 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
35 posts
Warning, I could be wrong about the search function-

When searching for a certain item and it shows up in the list, but with a 0 next to it, it often or always means that the item in question is for sale somewhere in that city's wards, but none are located for sale in the proper ward.
Since you'll get the star by the retainers with the search item even in the wrong ward, go ahead and search for that lowbie item, but just realize you'll have to port from ward to ward, jogging through it from one end to the other looking for the star, and moving to the next ward down the list until you find the item for sale.

I know it sucks that you have to do so much extra legwork, but look at it from the crafter's perspective. They have 6 Fobnoodles for sale @ 70k each to (profitably) unload, a couple partial stacks of crafting mats they've outleveled, oh, and a lowbie weapon & chest armor they just want to recover some of the cost of since they've upgraded or dropped the class once they got the ability they wanted at lvl 10 or 16 or whatever. That retainer's going to be in the proper ward for the expensive items, both to minimize the tax hit, and provide the biggest chance for sales.
#13 Jan 01 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
I was under the impression that the 0s on the ward search meant that the item had been sold there. Kinda like how FFXI's AH would list any item that had every been sold, even if it was unavailable.
____________________________


#14 Jan 01 2011 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,608 posts
or you can level your crafts and make them on your own.
____________________________

#15 Jan 01 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
...and be one more of those players who feels forced into crafting when all he wants to do is kill stuff.
#16 Jan 01 2011 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
67 posts
Ideally amongst the new players should be new crafters, making the low level gear. But this requires player turnover.
#17 Jan 01 2011 at 7:11 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
119 posts
Does any of this really surprise anybody?
As Aurelius stated, at a higher rank, making low rank armor is pointless because it uses resources that could be better put toward making higher rank stuff and/or getting SP.

The issue is that the game is still relatively new, therefore so is the game's economy. A game that relies so heavily on crafting can't have a legitimate economy without two things:
1) People to be a part of the economy (we need more players. Not exactly something that'll fix itself over night)
2) People to actually invest in the economy rather than themselves (not going to happen, especially at this stage)

The focus of grinding to the highest rank, making all the best gear, and eventually driving down its price does not help an economy. It prevents it.

Of course, it's not like saying something like that will change peoples' actions. People are too focused on grinding. That's only bad depending on which direction you look at it. Great for the individual, terrible for the community.
____________________________
FFXIV: Laurana Drakoid | Lancer | Alchemist | Rabanastre
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=4245640
#18 Jan 01 2011 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
ArkWeldwin wrote:


Of course, it's not like saying something like that will change peoples' actions. People are too focused on grinding. That's only bad depending on which direction you look at it. Great for the individual, terrible for the community.


I get what you are saying...

I've actually had people advise me away from making useful things in the name of efficiency. Like I've decided that for awhile I am going to focus on making francsica hafts and brass francsica heads and eventually brass franscisas for goldsmithing and carpentry (outside of leves, of course) ... and then some arrows and maybe chackrams (BSM) for a switch from the magic ward (which is using GLD and CRP making mage weapons) to the battlecraft ward. I'd prolly throw in a few enfeebling daggers as well.

Well I was told it was much more efficient to just npc the hafts and make brass rings to npc than to make actual things people could use.

Yeah. I probably would get more SP with less hassle - but I actually get annoyed making things just for the npc. So I guess what I am saying is there are a lot of players that don't really play for strict efficiecy but this game makes it so players like that take a long time to be able to supply a hungry market.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#19 Jan 01 2011 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
**
437 posts
LyleVertigo wrote:
or you can level your crafts and make them on your own.


Funny you should mention that. Did you know it still requires 15 blacksmithing to make the spatha blade for the bronze spatha? Brass spears which are lvl 19 to use are made by a lvl 25 goldsmith. You would need to level your crafting higher than your combat skill just to make the weapon to use. And you would have to level multiple crafting professions to ensure you got all the parts because not everyone is going to be selling them.
____________________________
行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#20 Jan 01 2011 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
shinichoco wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
or you can level your crafts and make them on your own.


Funny you should mention that. Did you know it still requires 15 blacksmithing to make the spatha blade for the bronze spatha? Brass spears which are lvl 19 to use are made by a lvl 25 goldsmith. You would need to level your crafting higher than your combat skill just to make the weapon to use. And you would have to level multiple crafting professions to ensure you got all the parts because not everyone is going to be selling them.


Yeah it just isn't viable to require the whole player base to do this. Zerg crafting hurts the game, period. People who like crafting should be supplying the market with goods for people who don't like crafting. Unfortunately SE thought that we liked to cooperate - but we don't so, this game's economy doesn't work.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#21 Jan 01 2011 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
shinichoco wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
or you can level your crafts and make them on your own.

Brass spears which are lvl 19 to use are made by a lvl 25 goldsmith. You would need to level your crafting higher than your combat skill just to make the weapon to use.


Just not trying to be nitpicking but, no, I made it at r18 Goldsmith. No, r48 Lance I made at r38 Goldsmith as well. No, I made r50 Jade Hora at r42. No you don't have to level your crafting higher than your combat skill.
____________________________




#22 Jan 01 2011 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
**
518 posts
I can help on this, because i craft middle range gear.

1. It's a pain in the *** to craft something. It's not just one piece or part we need to make items, and the lack of AH means parts and pieces need to be made by the crafter. For example, if i want to make bronze/iron gauntlets I have to have weaver leveled so i can make the sleeves needed to make the armor. The market ward system has turned a crafter into a self sufficient engine. I'm guilty of this, I level crafts to make pieces for other crafts. I leveled Alch for glue, I leveled weaver for cloth, i leveled leather for hides, and i level gold and bs to fix my ****. All to support ARM. If this were XI i'd only level ARM and would buy the cloth mats of the AH making the part market work. However, we don't have an AH so what you get is a 1 man production facility.

2. Gil is pointless in this game, except to new players. For something to even be worth my time to craft it has to meet two requirements. 1 it sells for ~75k, 2 it sells fast, and the majority of players wear it. So basically anything hempen, or for my main ARM not a haub or plate mail i will not make it. Players are not wearing it. If you want something that isn't in the wards as stated above.....Either level the craft, or ask a crafter.

don't ***** at the crafters, ***** at that r15 guy buying a r38 weapon. Don't ***** at the crafters, ***** at that r22 GLA wearing iron plate mail. Don't ***** at the crafters, blame SE for letting a r1 player wear the same gear as a r50.
#23 Jan 01 2011 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
*
225 posts
I'm surprised no one has linked this yet:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/101216slkufwbuaem.html#ti01

New crafter players are out of luck here, but Magic and War classes don't have to look hard to find a new weapon or armor. I'm not even sure why they haven't made rank 1-20 crafting/gathering tools available yet.
#24 Jan 01 2011 at 9:12 PM Rating: Good
**
800 posts
I really think the problem is just that the wards crash so frequently. I have no problem selling rank 10-20 gear, but if my retainer disappears and I don't log in for a day, my goods are invisible until I re-call my retainer. This tends to happen several times a week to me. What the OP is showing is basically the instability of the market wards, not the unavailability of low rank gear.

And since the wards are unreliable, I find myself doing more leves rather than making and selling my own gear because the leves are at least reliable. I hate making a 5-10 complex items for my retainer to sell only to log in the next day to find my retainer gone and nothing sold. It makes me wonder just how long my retainer was logged in after I went to bed.
#25 Jan 01 2011 at 9:14 PM Rating: Excellent
TheonVenethiel wrote:
How are new players supposed to lvl up if they can't find rank 7-12-16 weapons/armors/tools?

Oh,but there are plenty of rank 46 weapons....sigh

(i don't know how to post images in this weird forum)


(Aristio beat me to it! Oh well, this is a little more detailed :p)

The last update did include the following:

Quote:

* Certain pieces of gear for Disciples of War and Magic below rank 20 can now be purchased.
These items are available at the following locations - Link


In regards to the topic, the specific R1-R20 weapons are sold by the following NPCs:

Quote:

* Iron Thunder
(Limsa Lominsa / Battlecraft Ward)

* Conayn
(Gridania / Battlecraft Den)

* Reluctant Boar
(Ul'dah / Battlecraft Row)


TheonVenethiel wrote:

(i don't know how to post images in this weird forum)


In-forum pictures may only be done by Premium Members, which is an optional addition. Linking to Imageshack is fine :-)

Here is a picture of Iron Thunder, as well as part of the weapons he sells:
Limsa Lominsa NPC


The selection available is adequate, although certain rarer weapons (etc. Cavalry Bow, Feathered Harpoon) are excluded. However, since the NPC prices are far higher than crafter made items, I do believe that crafters can make money from lower players by selling them at a reasonable price - after all, money given to an NPC doesn't go back to the economy.


Edited, Jan 1st 2011 10:17pm by GuiltyBoomerang
____________________________
FFXIV

Estur Leone - Gysahl

#26 Jan 01 2011 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
Well the thing about me making gear for lowbies is this...I can never find that 1 piece of material I need to make something. Or if I can make the actual item, there maybe one item that is way too high for me to make, then it negates the purpose of me making a specific item. That is why I don't make many low item things :/ I would make them if I could possibly find the materials I need or SE adjust recipes to where they make sense.
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#27 Jan 01 2011 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
*
123 posts
I was talking with someone who nicely made a new tool for me the other day.

It's pretty simple:
Cost of materials for a level 7 crafting tool: expensive
Cost to sell that tool: not that much.

Here's what happened. A level 7 bronze tool for blacksmiths sold for 7-8k in the markets. So I thought I could save myself some money to make it myself. You need 6 bronze nuggets for the metal (including 5 to make an ignot). You need some undyed cotton (6k at vendor, a bit cheaper if you find someone selling one). You need a willow log (5k according to the person who helped me). Basically making tools means you have to sell at a loss. So most are just leftovers from people who've moved on to the next tool and just want to clear up their inventory.

The first rule of being in business is you have to sell at a profit.

Things like this are why I think crafting in this game is completely screwed up. You need a sword grip that a level 15 or so goldsmith can make from a (19?) level mob for a level 3 bronze gladius. It's very unlikely you'll be able to sell that part for cheap enough that a level 3 gladiator can afford and still turn a profit as a level 15 or whatever goldsmith.
#28 Jan 01 2011 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
TheonVenethiel wrote:
How are new players supposed to lvl up if they can't find rank 7-12-16 weapons/armors/tools?
This basically summarizes the one time I played FFXIV in all of December. Went to check out the new market search, looked for a weapon for my LNC14, didn't see anything for sale, logged out.

EDIT: Just for sh*ts I logged in and checked again, there isn't a single lance for sale anywhere.

Edited, Jan 1st 2011 10:59pm by bsphil
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#29 Jan 01 2011 at 10:44 PM Rating: Decent
*
55 posts
bsphil wrote:
TheonVenethiel wrote:
How are new players supposed to lvl up if they can't find rank 7-12-16 weapons/armors/tools?
This basically summarizes the one time I played FFXIV in all of December. Went to check out the new market search, looked for a weapon for my LNC14, didn't see anything for sale, logged out.


and never logged back on... AMIRITE? =D
#30 Jan 01 2011 at 10:48 PM Rating: Default
*
55 posts
KingWinterclaw wrote:
I was talking with someone who nicely made a new tool for me the other day.

It's pretty simple:
Cost of materials for a level 7 crafting tool: expensive
Cost to sell that tool: not that much.

Here's what happened. A level 7 bronze tool for blacksmiths sold for 7-8k in the markets. So I thought I could save myself some money to make it myself. You need 6 bronze nuggets for the metal (including 5 to make an ignot). You need some undyed cotton (6k at vendor, a bit cheaper if you find someone selling one). You need a willow log (5k according to the person who helped me). Basically making tools means you have to sell at a loss. So most are just leftovers from people who've moved on to the next tool and just want to clear up their inventory.

The first rule of being in business is you have to sell at a profit.

Things like this are why I think crafting in this game is completely screwed up. You need a sword grip that a level 15 or so goldsmith can make from a (19?) level mob for a level 3 bronze gladius. It's very unlikely you'll be able to sell that part for cheap enough that a level 3 gladiator can afford and still turn a profit as a level 15 or whatever goldsmith.



to summarize what he said... crafting is completely broken... yay...
#31 Jan 01 2011 at 11:28 PM Rating: Good
**
435 posts
Aurelius wrote:
The way I see it, there are too many barriers built into the game in order for it to be worth my while to craft lowbie gear. In order for me to make lowbie gear and make it available to purchase in the market wards I would have to:

1) Set aside time to make the gear which is hard to do when progressing my own character is such a heinous time sink.
2) Restrict access to one of my retainers to place them in the wards so it's easier for you to find the gear I'm selling.
3) Use shards that I never have enough of in order to make the gear.

And my reward for doing so and providing those items at a price that is new-player friendly would be a trivial sum of gil and the heartwarming satisfaction of knowing I'm helping to gear someone who is probably going to get fed up with the game and quit in a month anyways.

So...umm...sorry? SE made a sh*tty system. That's the heart of the issue, not what crafters are or aren't doing to make the game new player friendly.



A thousand times, this.
____________________________

#32 Jan 01 2011 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
KingWinterclaw wrote:
Things like this are why I think crafting in this game is completely screwed up. You need a sword grip that a level 15 or so goldsmith can make from a (19?) level mob for a level 3 bronze gladius. It's very unlikely you'll be able to sell that part for cheap enough that a level 3 gladiator can afford and still turn a profit as a level 15 or whatever goldsmith.


Whut? Aldgoat horn sword grip is used for r26 Iron Gladius, the Bronze Gladius uses Bone Sword Grip, the Brass Gladius uses Antelope Horn sword grip which is a frequent reward from getting 100+ evaluation on ANY goldsmith local at ANY level. This is probably one of the reason why people don't craft lowbie level stuff, they don't know the recipe correctly.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2011 12:45am by Khornette
____________________________




#33 Jan 01 2011 at 11:56 PM Rating: Excellent
**
291 posts
I agree with Aurelius...

...but at the same time when someone approaches me and asks me to fix or make them a weapon - if it's reasonable I may even gather the mats myself - I never turn them away.

I don't make a lot of lower gear anymore because I've been burned several times on making bulk products and having them sit on retainers (that crash 10x a day, thus get no exposure) for weeks at a time. It's really a big waste.

I just suggest you network. I pretty much know a crafter at R45-50 in every craft (except Cooking) now. I joined a LS specifically to network crafts and have easier time finding materials I need to make complicated synthesis.

I know everyone wants the Market Wards (or an AH) to be their 1 stop for all needs so they can grind grind grind to their hearts content but just take a minute to find people who can help you.

I imagine even the cold-hearted Aurelius would slap together some lowbie gear if you provided materials and shards - perhaps some extra shards. You just gotta work the system.

It really -isn't- the crafters' fault. It's entirely the systems' and it's a shame.
____________________________
Battle Mage Kiru
#34 Jan 02 2011 at 1:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
Quote:

So...umm...sorry? SE made a sh*tty system. That's the heart of the issue, not what crafters are or aren't doing to make the game new player friendly.


I agree completely. I think another part of the problem is the fact that there is so much money rolling into the economy and nothing to spend it on now - so in this case, if i'm rolling in millions of gil just going about my business grinding/leves/behests/etc., why would I even bother to craft...
____________________________
MUTED
#35 Jan 02 2011 at 1:59 AM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,576 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
I imagine even the cold-hearted Aurelius would slap together some lowbie gear if you provided materials and shards - perhaps some extra shards. You just gotta work the system.

It really -isn't- the crafters' fault. It's entirely the systems' and it's a shame.


I prefer "luke-warm hearted", tyvm.
#36 Jan 02 2011 at 2:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,497 posts
The main problem is most stuff needs at least 3 sometimes even 4-5 other crafting mats. Seriously, go down the list in a FFXIV database. It's nonsense. I understand it's "realistic" that you need stuff for it but this is why we have acceptable breaks from reality. I know the armor needs pins to work as leather armor BUT I DON'T CARE! I complained about this in beta and everyone said "good it'll make it more interesting". The worst part it needs specific stuff. Stuff you will never make or sell unless you are that crafting skill. Inner sheep leather mittens? Are you ******** me? No one makes that.

My suggestions:
1. Make items that require something specific, require an item that is more general. IE instead of specifically inner sheep leather mitten, just sheep leather. No tiny branch offs. Instead of maple axe haft which is used to make ONE single axe. Make it just "Maple haft" or "Maple thing-that-is-used-as-hilt-or-grip".

2. Reduce needed craft types in a item. Instead of an axe needing: Leatherworking, Alchemy, Blacksmithing, Carpenter. Make it just need: Blacksmithing and Carpenter. So if you want to make it without having every single craft or buy half the parts, you can just make it your self with two crafts that compliment.

3. Extreme deflation is needed. I saw this coming from a mile away when everyone was vendoring their stuff. I saw it when they were giving out a huge amount of gil for leves. Well guess what? It's here. Once gil starts to deflate that 10K only a newb can pay will start to add up in a decent way if you combine it with the ability to make something more easily.

4. Don't make a low level axe need a god **** iron pommel or something. What are you smoking? It's a Lv10 item you can't craft until Lv15 and to make the mats yourself you need to be Lv30. Nice, very classy SE. Those high level crafters? THEY AREN'T GONNA WASTE THEIR TIME ON MAKING THAT.

5. No colored items. I felt this needed it's own spot. Seriously, why does the buffalo strap (which I can't see) I use on my axe have to be black? This goes into #1 really but make colored items the last phase of an item. "You can craft a normal hempen tabard or you could make a blue one by adding this dye in the final synth." Don't make it need to be a blue dye with the leather, than the blue leather to cloth, than blue cloth to etc.

I've ranted and I've given my 2 cents. I agree to disagree. I understand the flaws in some of this suggestions. I only get angry cause I care. I want FFXIV to survive and become great. Now I'm done with this post.
#37 Jan 02 2011 at 4:53 AM Rating: Excellent
**
291 posts
I lol'd at luke-warm hearted.


Also, I oddly agree with everything Shykin said and disagree with it at the same time. It's a weird conundrum. I'm not even sure how to address it.

When I first started crafting in XIV (retail, I didn't bother with it in Beta other than to test out the minigame and see how it worked). I was also irritated that I needed Rank 25 materials to make Rank 7 weapons/gear. It seemed asinine to me. From a beginners point of view (which Shykin shouldn't be if he played since Beta) I bet it still is frustrating.

Though on a 1 by 1 basis I agree that everything Shykin said would improve overall crafting. The one I disagree with outright is the deflation of gil. You know, with crafting the way it is and with a lack of Auction House - I typically get all my gear for free. I'm not even joking about it, either. It's like XIV (maybe it's just my Linkshell?) has been driven back to a time before currency and we pretty much barter. Sometimes on credit at that. I mean, I got my entire velvet suit free. I get all my repairs free. I give away shards and wands to my LS mates. They give me stuff when I need it. It's actually (get ready) A LOT NICER than life in XI. Where I'd have to stop grinding just to farm gil just to buy new gear and spells.

So I mean, I get what you're saying - but if you work the system like I said it's actually pretty enjoyable. Another thing you might consider is to go in on crafting with others - a business arrangement. (I just had a vivid nightmare while awake that this is what SE meant when they said "group crafting" rather than actual group crafting. I know how they are with Tanaka-ism word choice).

I usually add up total # of shards used. Figure out what % each crafter I hire is putting into the pot (it seems fair enough. I don't want to work out the cost of everyone's mats, or how much effort they put into their levels yada yada) and then divy up the income based on the %. Pretty much the same idea as selling HNM loot in XI and splitting profits to members who participated.

That's just for stuff to sell (or skill up on) though. As far as what I wear, I make my own weapons and my LS provides the rest of my gear. It's actually a way better experience than I had in XI. So... while I agree there are improvements to make to crafting, I gotta say the worthlessness of gil is actually pretty nice. It's making people a **** of a lot more generous.

Though back to the problem at hand - same issue. You need to find crafters to make your lowbie gear. It's probably the best way. And hey, you may make some profitable business arrangements or friends for life while you do it. Think of it as an incentive!
____________________________
Battle Mage Kiru
#38 Jan 02 2011 at 5:01 AM Rating: Decent
**
291 posts
I'm gonna double post a quick thought.

I do hate the way color'd gear works. It still seems asinine to me.

If I were the new director I'd ditch it completely. Turn everyone's colored cloth (or what have you) into uncolored. Create an entire craft (or offshoot of Alchemist, cause aside from Shard factories what are they worth?) that can dye gear. So yeah. Now you need a weaver to make you velvet gear and you need an alchemist to dye it. Big whoop. Why NOT add 1 (or 10!) more people to the gear making process? lol

Anyway despite adding another person or craft - it just seems to make more sense. I got Green Velvet on and I recently decided I'd prefer Red to go with a unique hat I got (Carpenter) but oh well. I'm not gonna sell my entire green outfit and buy a new one - or have someone make me a new one based on aesthetics. It just seems silly to boast this kind of customization (even though Guild Wars still has them beat on this front, which is kind of pathetic coming from a F2P game that's ?6? years old) and have it be so **** limiting.
____________________________
Battle Mage Kiru
#39 Jan 02 2011 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
shykin wrote:
4. Don't make a low level axe need a god **** iron pommel or something. What are you smoking? It's a Lv10 item you can't craft until Lv15 and to make the mats yourself you need to be Lv30. Nice, very classy SE. Those high level crafters? THEY AREN'T GONNA WASTE THEIR TIME ON MAKING THAT.


This again, which axe are you specifically talking about? There is nothing like that in existence. Maybe you're trying to make a point using a non-existent example? That certainly does not help proving your point. Yes, there are items that requires material from higher rank crafters, but certainly not this mysterious iron pommel axe. And they have fixed quite a bit by lowering many parts recipe to lower level, for example Wolf Hide -> Wolf Fur.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2011 6:03am by Khornette
____________________________




#40 Jan 02 2011 at 5:18 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
676 posts
Quote:
When searching for a certain item and it shows up in the list, but with a 0 next to it, it often or always means that the item in question is for sale somewhere in that city's wards, but none are located for sale in the proper ward.
This poster has the right idea. An item will only show up in the wards search counter if it's actually on sale. The number beside it indicates the number of sellers in that ward with the item you want. I found countless items with a zero beside them by searching other wards (in my case, the Battle and Tanner wards).

It's a bit of a nuisance to have to hunt down other wards, but a few things help us out. Firstly whenever you enter a ward with the search item located in it, the retainer who has the item will always load first. This makes them a lot easier to spot considering you can often wait a good minute or two for other retainers to appear. Secondly there's a big star over their heads, so again they should be easy enough to find.

It's a pain, but you can't expect every seller to dedicate their entire store specifically for one type of item. Chances are they'll put their retainer in the ward that either covers the majority of their stock or the more expensive items. Sometimes you have to treat the market wards just like a market and do a little window shopping.
____________________________

FFXI: Siren Server: Seiowan Lvl 99 WHM, SCH, BLM
FFXIV: Ragnarok Server: Lemuria Glitterhands All Classes 50
#41 Jan 02 2011 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
Quote:
(I just had a vivid nightmare while awake that this is what SE meant when they said "group crafting" rather than actual group crafting. I know how they are with Tanaka-ism word choice).


No, no...group crafting is literally group crafting, they showed a party of crafters working on a building a boat together and a wedding cake too. I think we get a sniff of that in the coming update, just wild speculation on my part.
____________________________
MUTED
#42 Jan 02 2011 at 5:36 AM Rating: Excellent
35 posts
It should not have been hard for any of the devs to make all these predictions on how players have acted based on the rules and market system they created.

1) They created an economic system in which it is impossible to disseminate full market information. The buyer cannot be fully informed on his purchases nor can competing sellers understand supply and demand. Websites like FFXIVPRO and YG help a little, but they are not even part of SE.

2) The purpose for crafting right now is twofold, maybe threefold.
#1 - Gain SP to rank up.
#2 - Create gear to make money.
#3 - Create items at no profit for (a)yourself, (b) friends/LS, (c) random people. Probably in that order. The reason higher level crafters don't make lower level gear is that it meets none of these criteria.

3) Like in every aspect of every economy, there is something called opportunity cost. There is limited resources, so people need to decide how to use those resources to their best purpose. There is limited raw materials and parts. There is limited space to sell those items in bazaar. There are limits to almost every aspect.

4) The ultimate trump card. Supply and Demand. There is more demand for things the OP doesn't want, and less demand for the things this individual wanted. Trust me, if low level gear sold well, people would make it.

From the day I logged in at the CE release and saw the system they had created, I knew these things would happen. Square Enix should have as well.

____________________________
***Have you ever wondered which hurts the most: saying something and wishing you had not, or saying nothing, and wishing you had?***
#43 Jan 02 2011 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
SirEdmundBurke wrote:
From the day I logged in at the CE release and saw the system they had created, I knew these things would happen. Square Enix should have as well.


Agreed. Considering the economy and crafting play such a big role in this game, they should've had it top priority for a fully functional way to facilitate buying and selling between players - its stupid the shape the Market Wards was in at release...its much better now but tbh I just want an AH now, it would make things so much easier.
____________________________
MUTED
#44 Jan 02 2011 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
**
291 posts
Quote:
No, no...group crafting is literally group crafting, they showed a party of crafters working on a building a boat together and a wedding cake too. I think we get a sniff of that in the coming update, just wild speculation on my part.


Oh. Yeah!

I'm also hoping Companies (if they are introduced the way they were intended) should put a whole new spin on this game including Company projects (group crafts) and such. I almost feel like if Companies are how I expect them (and let's just all admit right here that my expectations are way too high for what SE will give us; they've been way to high for everything SE has done since 2000) they should have been an integral part of the game at launch and it might have made the world feel more alive.

Then again it may be another skeletal system with no depth that people are only mild to moderately interested in - but to me it seems like what the meat/potatoes might be in this game and why it wasn't here to start is a huge blunder on SE's part. Now they may be building a whole new game under new leadership.

We'll see. As much as I think the poll is a good idea, I also think some input from Yoshida would be better.
____________________________
Battle Mage Kiru
#45 Jan 02 2011 at 6:12 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
Quote:

We'll see. As much as I think the poll is a good idea, I also think some input from Yoshida would be better.


I'm sure he does right, but we've been begging SE to "listen", in his interview with 4gamer he says he has plans for the game but he wants to know what the players want before he goes all out on what he wants. I think its really good.
____________________________
MUTED
#46 Jan 02 2011 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
*
211 posts
I have a 42+ weaver, and I'll admit, I never set up a retainer in the wards. I leave them on standby so I can call them at the bells.

The stuff I do sell is only in my bazaar, and it's usually a pretty limited selection. Mostly a couple hot ticket velvet or linen items, usually the crafting stat ones, like coatees, shortgloves, colored cotton undies, and random HQ stuff. It's really just stuff I make on impulse, and if it sells well I'll make a couple more.

Do I go out of my way to keep a large stock of all lvl items for all classes? Of course not... I have hardly any space as it is, and with no mailbox, muling is a huge pain.

But there is an upside for those people in search of items. I do free synths for everyone I know or who is in my linkshell, and for anyone random who sends me a /tell, I'll do the synth for free, but accept tips should they feel like giving one. I usually have the cloth mats laying around, but some gear needs stuff like a buckle or other oddity that I'll ask them to provide. Likewise, if you round up all the mats yourself, I'll happily do a free synth. I know crafters of each field who do the same on my server too.

So really, it boils down to this... The market wards still suck, and you need to actually contact people if you want to get anywhere. I rarely ever go to the wards. Even if what you need is there, it's either in the wrong ward, killing the ability to search for it... Or it's marked up at a 5000% profit margin due to SE's not so brilliant idea about thwarting undercutting.

Undercutting is a **** good thing, and this is coming from a veteran crafter of both FF mmo's. Trying to stop it ruins the supply and demand system, and leads to everyone just being lazy and making a couple hot items, and overcharging for them. Why bother going through a lot of extra hassle to make several items that don't sell as fast or for as much, when you can just run the same bazaar as everyone else, because nobody can find any of the other sellers anyway?

My point is, be nice to people and make friends, the bigger your network is, the more likely you are to be able to find what you need. And keep pestering SE about adding in an AH. It's not the crafters fault that it's hard to find things, they are just taking the path of least resistance to meet their goals, and as long as they are still progressing and making gil, there is no reason or incentive for them to take a much more tedious and time consuming path to get to the same place.
____________________________
PvR fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KYqooGHd2g




#47 Jan 02 2011 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
**
482 posts
Quote:
This again, which axe are you specifically talking about? There is nothing like that in existence. Maybe you're trying to make a point using a non-existent example? That certainly does not help proving your point. Yes, there are items that requires material from higher rank crafters, but certainly not this mysterious iron pommel axe. And they have fixed quite a bit by lowering many parts recipe to lower level, for example Wolf Hide -> Wolf Fur.


Just using this as an example:

Bronze Labrys - Rank 10 weapon yes, I know it can be bought from NPC now.

Armorer Rank 11 - Bronze Rivets
Carpenter Rank 14 - Ash Lumber
Blacksmith Rank 21 - Bronze Labrys Head
Leatherworker Rank 29 - Red Ochre Buffalo Leather
Alchemist Rank 30 - Red Ochre Buffalo Leather Dye

Oh, you only need Blacksmith Rank 8 to actually make the **** thing.

That's what you'd need to make the weapon yourself...not including gathering the materials. Which would require leveling Miner and Botanist.

All this work for a Rank 10 weapon.
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
Pack your own lunch and bring nothing but Pixie Stix and Pop Rocks and get your liberty on.
#48 Jan 02 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
41 posts
The main thing with crafting is that the game requires people to network and work with each other in crafting just as they would in a party. In a party, you'll need (debatable at this point heh) someone to tank, dd, heal etc. Well now you need a "party" of individuals to craft certain mats. This is a new phenomenon since crafting is usually a solo thing in nearly all MMOs.

People aren't social enough in this MMO for this to work. And that is clearly evident by the fact that people end up leveling lots of sub crafts to be self sufficient or grind a combat class solo on Coblyns for eternity. Those that are in crafting linkshells or have plenty of crafters of different disciplines in their existing linkshells already have a head start. Add to the fact that the market wards aren't as efficient as an AH when it comes to advertising items along with the fact that people ignore Optimal Rank or Favors when it comes to gear, we have a nice mess of synths that crafters refuse to do since it provides no SP or gil.

Personally crafting for me has been mostly profit. I craft mainly on stuff that I end up with after grinding a combat class or doing some botany. And I usually will only make stuff that I can use to level other classes to kill 3-4 birds with one stone. I actually make the low level stuff but as people have said, no one buys it or it sells slow, cause others would rather just wear a Haub as a 14 GLA or they can't find it. If they made the penalties more pronounced, people would actually ya know.. wear what they are suppose to be wearing. But we also need more new players in the game as well, especially those that don't know you can get to 20 in 1-4 days with minimal gear upgrades.

If SE intends to leave things as is, they need to at least allow us a better way to network. They have the party search function in the game but it's too cumbersome atm. If a crafter could seek "employment" like a combat class seeks a party, that would help a bit. As it is now, you just have to know someone or go to the specific guild and ask someone there (which honestly makes sense; need a Weaver? Go to the guild). So it really falls onto players to sort of congregate in locations (most servers, this is Ul'dah by the repair NPC) and hope a /shout works.

****, I wrote an essay. :(


Edited, Jan 2nd 2011 11:31am by Hyena
#49 Jan 02 2011 at 10:59 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Hyena wrote:
The main thing with crafting is that the game requires people to network and work with each other in crafting just as they would in a party. In a party, you'll need (debatable at this point heh) someone to tank, dd, heal etc. Well now you need a "party" of individuals to craft certain mats. This is a new phenomenon since crafting is usually a solo thing in nearly all MMOs.

People aren't social enough in this MMO for this to work. And that is clearly evident by the fact that people end up leveling lots of sub crafts to be self sufficient or grind a combat class solo on Coblyns for eternity. Those that are in crafting linkshells or have plenty of crafters of different disciplines in their existing linkshells already have a head start. Add to the fact that the market wards aren't as efficient as an AH when it comes to advertising items along with the fact that people ignore Optimal Rank or Favors when it comes to gear, we have a nice mess of synths that crafters refuse to do since it provides no SP or gil.
Also, you can level up a craft without actually creating anything, just by spamming crafting leves. This leaves a large gap in the market for lower level gear of any kind. In FFXI, people would be crafting this stuff in large quantities just to skill up.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#50 Jan 02 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
41 posts
^^ Another good point about the black hole in lower level gear. Not really sure what they can do to fix that either. Though I do have an idea that may be worthwhile to crafters. As we all know, crafting guild marks are a complete pain to get. If they made a system where you recieved guild marks from crafts that you sold, that would certainly get some crafters to at least attempt synths that aren't gonna bring in gil/SP.
#51 Jan 02 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Default
*
175 posts
If you see "0" is the search, this means it is being sold somewhere in the market wards, just not the correct area.
I have found more than 1 person selling a "0" or any numbered item, if you search ALL wards in the city.
____________________________

Skills & Levels: lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1355392
Bazaar: ffxiv.yg.com/bazaar?fl&mn=Shounin&srv=17
100 local levequests completed!
100 regional levequests completed!
2000 enemies defeated!
« Previous 1 2 3
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 17 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (17)