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Anyone else quitting if they NGE the game?Follow

#152 Jan 03 2011 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I've said before that I think SE should consider abandoning the FF franchise because too many people already have certain expectations in their mind just by seeing the Final Fantasy name. For many longtime FF fans, the name "Final Fantasy" already instills a certain set of expectations about what the game will and won't be; what it can and can't be, and the only two things these types of fans have in common is that none of them can agree what things those are, and that all of them will get fervently angry if they don't get them.

I think that if they had left the game named "Project Rapture", they wouldn't feel limited by the "Final Fantasy" name in terms of what to do with the game.

I mean, just as a base level, the game HAS to have crystals, chocobos, and airships because it has Final Fantasy in it. Depending on who you ask, this list can get larger.


One of the many reasons I quit was because the game didn't feel like Final Fantasy to me. FFXI had the classic jobs from tactics which made it feel more like a final fantasy tactics online. The FFXIV jobs are too generic for my tastes, but generic classes comes with a solo focused game I guess.

For what it's worth, I would love to play that MMO you're looking for. I've never been able to understand why people would pay a monthly fee for an online game where player interaction is a rarity and cooperation is seen as a hassle.

I also don't understand why an entire genre, which has been known for encouraging players to invest large amounts of time, has to cater to a group of players who don't have time to play games. I still miss the EQ era, where you log in to roleplay and adventure in an immersive world where you aren't overly restrained by game mechanics. These days it seems like people want an action game burdened with UI and linear gameplay that literally pushes you down the path of instant gratification.

I've heard its because 'gamers' are older with families now and have less free time to devote to playing games, but I believe the change is more to appease the younger crowd with shorter attention spans. They can have their WoW, but I won't touch that game. I just wish it hadn't poisoned the rest of the MMO genre. I haven't been able to find a single MMO since FFXI that emphasizes multiplayer and cooperative gameplay, and I've tried many.

I've already quit FFXIV, so I guess a 'NGE' could only help. I'm not holding my breath though.
#153 Jan 03 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think Square can Neon Genesis Evangelion this game.
#154 Jan 03 2011 at 11:51 AM Rating: Default
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doubleax wrote:
Wloire wrote:
Wolfums wrote:
Wloire wrote:
Wolfums wrote:
No, it'll bring me back. 2011 is a huge year for important gaming releases, FFXIV need to pull off something amazing if it wants to stay afloat.


No it isn't. the only big release is Star Wars which, with its budget has to be the second coming if it's going to succeed, the game has way overshot a normal mmo budget and from my own impressions seems to be slightly lackluster gameplay wise (great storytelling though!).

TERA is not a big release, although it looks extremely interesting, especially with its combat system, it will not garner enough attention to be considered a heavy hitter.

Single Player games are always being released and there is a couple big ones every year, generally single player games only pull from the MMO market for a month at a time so they are no big deal.


Haha, look at this guy.

SWG, Guild Wars 2, TERA, and Rift are all fairly well known in the MMO world and there's plenty of buzz for them. You've also got Diablo 3 with a possible release in 2011, and it's going to definitely be online capable and it's going to definitely suck away players from subscription based MMOs.

Quote:
Finally do you think they can completely rebuild and overhaul the game in a year? Asking for a NGE like change is absolute suicide for the game, it will pull development from much needed content and devote it to what will probably amount to another miss. They definately didn't get it right the first time.

Again the only thing that will kill FFXIV in 2011 is FFXIV.


Yes, they can, because they already have a lot of content created. They don't need to redo textures and art designs, they don't need to redo most class concepts or story concepts. The hardest, most expensive part of any game is not core mechanics.

This game is a mangled, sh*tty mess that's only missing the tombstone for its grave. An overhaul might pull it back.


You seemed to have missed my point entirely. My issue was with you saying 2011 is going to be a big year for games. TOR:O (not SWG, entirely different games), has been estimated to require over a million subscribers from launch to hope to break into profitability within a reasonable amount of time due to the sheer size of the budget. From what I've seen of the game, it's going to suffer all the same issues as any other AAA release in the past five years. It's lackluster to say the least.

Guild Wars looks beautiful, absolutely amazing, but thats looks, videos, all of which can be craftily edited. We have no idea what the game will actually be like, just like everyone thought FFXIV was going to be the second coming before open beta.

TERA, the one truly promising title suffers from a lack of marketing. How many people know about the game and will stay past the free month? Maybe a hundred thousand? A great number for TERA, but not a significant hit to the market.

Diablo 3, looks like absolute sh*t. Pure utter bullsh*t. But its a Blizzard game so it will sell tens of millions of copies. The online will only serve as a distraction for most though. A sideshow. It won't have a significant impact beyond month two.

No 2011 looks a lot like 2010, a lot of over hyped titles that will do just average and be decried as utter failures because they can't reach the same numbers as WoW. Which represents the true threat to FFXIV. WoW and its continued expansions will always be the biggest enemy to FFXIV's success. Not TOR, not GW, definitely not Diablo.

Quote:
I strongly disagree with your assesment that Guildwar, Rift, and SWTOR will not affect FFXIV. SE needs new PAYING players to survive. You are correct that ony SE can kill FFXIV cause it is up to them to do something about it.

You think this free bunch that is playing is enough to keep FFXIV going? If you think so you are naive, no crazzy. Potential MMO players are going to try something new, not a game that has been trashed by every gaming site there is. And if they don't like say SWTOR the will more then likely try the newer game then FFXIV. You know why? Cause it is free right now. Where are the people beating down the door of this free to play? **** if they can't get people in here when it is free, just imagine when they start charging.


Games have survived much worse population numbers and profited. Not that 500 players on each server is a success. SE has to start considering consolidating servers to save overhead for sure. These numbers of course won't kill the game unless SE decides it just isn't worth it.



Wow is FFXIV only enemy? HAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!! You are getting way ahead of yourself. SE isn’t even brave enough to charge for playing and you’re already claiming it has just WOW to worry about.

You’re talking as if FFXIV has this huge player base that it is trying to keep when it is just the complete opposite. FFXIV has to have significant number of sub before it can even be mentioned in the same breath as WOW. So where does that leave FFXIV then? The same spot as all the other MMOs. Trying to compete for WOW’s leftover. When you start adding up all the numbers that will try other games instead of FFXIV it starts to become big real quick. FFXIV is, after months and months after release, still competing for players. FFXIV is not competing with WOW but with every other MMO aiming for WOW. Sad part is we don’t even know how bad the numbers will be if they started charging.

As far as surviving. I'm pretty sure it will survive. It will just be another game with 100k+ subs if they keep with their current design.


You don't like to think before you sit down in front of the computer, do you?

WoW is just so big that FFXIV doesn't have to compete with it yeah? Because thats how these things work. Theres only one league in this market and like it or not WoW is at the top and it will always present a threat to FFXIV whether FFXIV turns around or not.

Guild Wars 2 is a completely different game than FFXIV, which will attract its own customers, same with TOR. These games present a very minor threat to FFXIV as it currently stands, as for the most part their subscription numbers will come from ex-WoW players and ex-GW1 players. Not to mention both games will suffer from the same (albeit not nearly as bad) problems as FFXIV. Every AAA game in the past five years has failed it's launch. It's become a given.
#155 Jan 03 2011 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
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So far it seems to me that everyone complaining about he lack of communication either have no LS, are in one small LS, or are in an LS that is on life-support. I have never had an issue finding a group in this game. I say if you're having communication issues in this game you're likely doing something wrong.
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#156 Jan 03 2011 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think anything can save this game, NGE or small/major fixes over long/short time frame.

I mean, look at the current zones we run around in, if there is to be a "wow" factor to this game those zones need to be remade. I thought about this last night, where are the beastman strongholds? Where are the large castles or beast zones. It feels like SE had this awesome idea of a class system and a leve system, then just had an afterthought as to what the world these ideas inhabited looked like. I mean sometimes despite the graphics I feel like i'm playing a game that was designed and conceptualized prior to XI.

While XI had it's problems, and it's grinds, and it's absolutely insane time sinks it was still a good game that kept me coming back day after day and hour after hour. There was a reason to party, there was a reason to get fame, there was a reason to farm cotton thread off crawlers for 6 hours. I mean just think of RoZ type missions. I'm not saying XIV needs a new expansion, but my god...where is the story, where are the villians, and where is the "wow?" I mean how awesome was it in RoZ when you had to fight DM? I know you didn't have to but that fight was epic! What about the story of CoP, I mean **** remember the first couple years in the promy zones, you'd have to team up with 18 ppl just to make it to the top, it was a ******* treck. The fights required correct strat and jobs. What about Airship, or any other CoP fight?

It's like once ToAu came out out solo and "run around the world" missions started to become the norm. I mean I don't think it was till the Yag fight in ToAu that you needed a party, and Alex...but still that was two fights out of a 20+ mission line. Didn't get too far into the WotG but i'm sure it was the same. In FFXIV the mission lines suck. What am I doing? A crafter can complete the story....I know full time crafters appreciate this but they are a minority. Mission lines should be group driven, they should be hard. I should feel like I did something awesome, I mean going off SE's stats 3 years after CoP came out only 1/3 of the entire player base was even on or past mission 8-1. I felt like I had finally arrived once i finished CoP...pre nerf of course, after the nerf it was too easy to finish up missions, once the level cap was removed it wasn't even an accomplishment.

There is so much wrong at the base level with this game that if we even begin to try to think of what would make it better as we progress is pointless. I'm pretty sure the population of the game has stabilized. I only say that because my server is still empty but My shells aren't losing players anymore, we're pretty steady. However, I don't think that there is ever anymore than 1k players on Istory during peak times..I'm honest and I know that SE can't support this game with that few players. I'm pretty sure once they start charging that number will drop even more. I mean go to some of the new camps and check how many level 1-10 characters there are.

This game needs a re-do, maps redrawn, quests and mini quests added throughout. I know ppl are going to hate that I say this, but the current development team should take a long hard look at what made XI work, what makes WoW work, and what can make this game appeal to both the hardcore and casual players in both those games and implement it. That means we are going to need "easy mode" XPing, which I can live with, just make endgame OMGWTFBBQ hard. I mean how many times did you in XI sit and watch a shell struggle with an hour long fafhogg, imagine how much different DA would have been if fafhogg was actually hard, and ppl actually died. I mean even though we all hated it, AV was the best mob design ever. What other game had a mob that was unbeatable for such a long time.

I would say do what WoW just did, change the whole world. Make it all different, shut the servers down for 8-12 hours or however long it takes to change it, and lets start again. However, I don't think SE is going to do this. There are not enough of us left playing or buying the game to justify spending all that money. And once money does become an issue people are gonna make a choice to stay and leave and I think more will leave than stay making any major changes not likely due to costs. Hate to say it, but the launch of this game and the state it was released in was such a huge and massive mistake that SE may never recover from this.
#157 Jan 03 2011 at 2:33 PM Rating: Default
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Quick, someone ask me what I think.


What, no one cares? Imagine that. Something for all of us to keep in mind, perhaps.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 12:33pm by Kachi
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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#158 Jan 03 2011 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jefro420 wrote:
So far it seems to me that everyone complaining about he lack of communication either have no LS, are in one small LS, or are in an LS that is on life-support. I have never had an issue finding a group in this game. I say if you're having communication issues in this game you're likely doing something wrong.


I would counter by saying that while an LS should be an important part of the social aspect of the game, you shouldn't feel like you NEED to join an LS to experience it. Many people, for years, have gone out in public on a regular basis to bars, clubs, lounges, etc with the intent of meeting new people and socializing with them. It should not be assumed that you need to take people with you to have a socially enjoyable experience. Similarly, while an LS is a group of friends to talk with, it strikes me as odd that the entire game outside of linkshells should be largely antisocial. Something just seems off about that.

You know, I've said before that I don't think FFXIV needs a General zone chat, but the more I see people suggest that you NEED to be in a linkshell if you want to have a conversation in the game, the more I consider that maybe it should have it after all. /1 and /2 in WoW were good for some interesting chatter once you weeded through the Charles Norris and **** [For the Children] stuff. Even /sh in Jeuno and Whitegate lead to some interesting discussions once in a while.

So yeah, **** it. I take it back. Let's put zone wide General chat into FFXIV if that's what it takes to get people to socialize with each other.
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#159 Jan 03 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Quick, someone ask me what I think.


What, no one cares? Imagine that. Something for all of us to keep in mind, perhaps.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 12:33pm by Kachi


What do you think?
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#160 Jan 03 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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seiferdincht wrote:
Llester wrote:
dear SE,

just make FFXI-2. all those PS2 players need to upgrade to a new system any **** way.





Every time I hear this term used it brings to mind THIS:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/ff%20x-2%20girlpower/YoshiGirl/320px-Black_Mage_FFX-2.jpg

Let's NOT forget XIII director was responsible for that mess too.
(seriously SE he has messed up every game he has worked on, maybe it's time to send a pink letter to his desk?!)

Sorry totally O.T. and all that jazz...


Not that I agree with an FFXI-2 (although right now that would be better than FFXIV) but aside from story what was wrong with FFX-2 exactly? and aside from linearity what was wrong with FFXIII? nothing. Both games were good, but their good came with some bad.
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#161 Jan 03 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Llester wrote:
dear SE,

just make FFXI-2. all those PS2 players need to upgrade to a new system any **** way.





Every time I hear this term used it brings to mind THIS:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/ff%20x-2%20girlpower/YoshiGirl/320px-Black_Mage_FFX-2.jpg

Let's NOT forget XIII director was responsible for that mess too.
(seriously SE he has messed up every game he has worked on, maybe it's time to send a pink letter to his desk?!)

Sorry totally O.T. and all that jazz...


Not that I agree with an FFXI-2 (although right now that would be better than FFXIV) but aside from story what was wrong with FFX-2 exactly? and aside from linearity what was wrong with FFXIII? nothing. Both games were good, but their good came with some bad.


And for that matter, aside from killing all those Jews and trying to take over the world, what was wrong with the *****? But no, seriously...

X-2 suffered from three main problems: One was the terminology: Replace Dress Sphere with Job Sphere, Garment Grid with Job Grid, and you've instantly fixed something that caused many people to not want to play. Yeah, it's still pretty princess dressup, but at least if you don't CALL it that, it might have a chance.

Two was the cast of characters. I personally have nothing wrong with a game where all three protagonists were females, but many people did. If there was a mix of female/male protagonists, and possibly a obligatory gender unspecific non human one, you've solved the game's second problem.

Three was the drastic change in Yuna's excitement level, combined with the fact that already excitable Rikku had been turned up to 11. "Gimme a Y! Gimme an R! Gimme a break." indeed. It's a sad state of affairs when the brooding one is the only character that made the game semi-tolerable. Most people do not want to play the video game adaptation of Teen Girl Squad; they want realistic characters with semi-realistic stories and at least somewhat plausible emotions. I was still waiting for Rikku to talk about how "lol guyz r soooo hawt <3 <3 <3" or something. Apply Valium liberally to Rikku and let Yuna be the shy, quiet Summonner she was, with perhaps a bit more confidence; not two guns and a microphone.

But you're right, other than those things, X-2 was a good game.

As for XIII, it might have been good once you got out of the 15-20 hour tunnel. I hear that it was. I'll never know because I don't hate myself enough.
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#162 Jan 03 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wloire wrote:

You don't like to think before you sit down in front of the computer, do you?

WoW is just so big that FFXIV doesn't have to compete with it yeah? Because thats how these things work. Theres only one league in this market and like it or not WoW is at the top and it will always present a threat to FFXIV whether FFXIV turns around or not.

Guild Wars 2 is a completely different game than FFXIV, which will attract its own customers, same with TOR. These games present a very minor threat to FFXIV as it currently stands, as for the most part their subscription numbers will come from ex-WoW players and ex-GW1 players. Not to mention both games will suffer from the same (albeit not nearly as bad) problems as FFXIV. Every AAA game in the past five years has failed it's launch. It's become a given.



Talk about not thinking, look in the mirror. You are the one claiming WoW is FFXIV's only competition. Which is so far of base it is comical. FFXIV has been released for 3 months and counting. Anything in terms of players it was suppose to get from WOW has come and gone. FFXIV IS NOT GETTING ANY significant players from WOW. That window is close. And the people playing FFXIV now are not going to WOW. They've already had a bad taste of WOW. That only leaves new game coming out as place they'll try. That is the part you don't get. Those who would have left WOW for FFXIV have done so and those who haved played FFXIV and left for Cataclysm have also done so. There will be no more significant numbers between WOW and FFXIV. The next big exodus will be for new games, not WOW.

So tell us where is FFXIV suppose to get new players then? And how do they plan on keeping people from leaving? I know I'm not alone when these other games are release or if SE starts charging, will bail. The poll done here showed that close to 40% (if not higher) are just here cause it is free and or waiting on another MMO release.

SE, unlike you, is so terrified of these other release that they have let go the game director and brought in a new team. They are so fearful of people leaving they have made it free. These people who leave are gamers. They will play something else. Be it FPS or an MMO they will try something new. So yes, everything coming out is going to impact FFXIV. WHether these games fail or suceed is irrelevent to them taking players away.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 8:11pm by doubleax
#163 Jan 03 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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doubleax wrote:
Qoute Train!!!!


Jesus no wonder this thread is like 4 pages, no need for a qoute train when clearly you only wanted to emphasis the bolded statement, you just taking up space and making ppl skip your post. Less is more ^.^
#164 Jan 03 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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jooliuscious wrote:

Lastly, I bet if the answer is obvious, then you are way smarter than me, but please elaborate what NGE is. Is it Neon Genesis Evangelion????

It is as far as I'm concerned..
IMO, this game was supposed to be set to be quite a bit more futuristic than FFXI, so I'd definitely take some NGE & Xenosaga mixed in with my FFXIV. So some NGE / Mecha parts would be great.
#165 Jan 03 2011 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Llester wrote:
dear SE,

just make FFXI-2. all those PS2 players need to upgrade to a new system any **** way.





Every time I hear this term used it brings to mind THIS:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/ff%20x-2%20girlpower/YoshiGirl/320px-Black_Mage_FFX-2.jpg

Let's NOT forget XIII director was responsible for that mess too.
(seriously SE he has messed up every game he has worked on, maybe it's time to send a pink letter to his desk?!)

Sorry totally O.T. and all that jazz...


Not that I agree with an FFXI-2 (although right now that would be better than FFXIV) but aside from story what was wrong with FFX-2 exactly? and aside from linearity what was wrong with FFXIII? nothing. Both games were good, but their good came with some bad.


And for that matter, aside from killing all those Jews and trying to take over the world, what was wrong with the *****? But no, seriously...

X-2 suffered from three main problems: One was the terminology: Replace Dress Sphere with Job Sphere, Garment Grid with Job Grid, and you've instantly fixed something that caused many people to not want to play. Yeah, it's still pretty princess dressup, but at least if you don't CALL it that, it might have a chance.

Two was the cast of characters. I personally have nothing wrong with a game where all three protagonists were females, but many people did. If there was a mix of female/male protagonists, and possibly a obligatory gender unspecific non human one, you've solved the game's second problem.

Three was the drastic change in Yuna's excitement level, combined with the fact that already excitable Rikku had been turned up to 11. "Gimme a Y! Gimme an R! Gimme a break." indeed. It's a sad state of affairs when the brooding one is the only character that made the game semi-tolerable. Most people do not want to play the video game adaptation of Teen Girl Squad; they want realistic characters with semi-realistic stories and at least somewhat plausible emotions. I was still waiting for Rikku to talk about how "lol guyz r soooo hawt <3 <3 <3" or something. Apply Valium liberally to Rikku and let Yuna be the shy, quiet Summonner she was, with perhaps a bit more confidence; not two guns and a microphone.

But you're right, other than those things, X-2 was a good game.

As for XIII, it might have been good once you got out of the 15-20 hour tunnel. I hear that it was. I'll never know because I don't hate myself enough.


Well I loved X-2 for those reasons. Then again: I also like Sailor Moon for those reasons too so nothing surprising in this corner. >.> <.<

There are many fans of the series who don't like grit, grime, and gore. In fact: the game was commercially successful, and I think that X-2 tapped into those fans—who are quite numerous! I think the three-point argument you are referring to is the likelihood for a certain type of gamer to discuss games on the Internet. A prime candidate for the title of X-2 fan is not one such gamer.
#166 Jan 03 2011 at 8:07 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
What do you think?


I think this was an amusing way to bump a boring thread.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#167 Jan 03 2011 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I welcome an NGE. I am thouroughly disgusted with the game and definately would be ok with scraping most if not all the game. Go back to the classic jobs (I love role-based jobs). Get rid of durability. Reduce the integration of crafting from a 10 to a 3... at best (10 point scale). Gear drops (not a fan of buying your way to success). Good gear should be gotten through blood, not craft. The battle system: sh*t or get off the pot. Go back to a more FFXI feel or go with a TERA online or RIFT approach. Im happy with either extreme, but in the middle just seems so half-assed. The game doesnt need to have an "actiony" feel, if I still need to activate abilities rather than just insta-done (favorite examples: attacking vs blocking with a shield). Partying needs to be not only more prevalent, but more often required (this would be solved with better party rewards and xp, and if we had Role-Based Jobs. Especially for things like NMs, endgame, major quests and storylines. AH - not much to say on this. Its not that I dislike the Market System so much, its more like I am a typical male and I dont go "shopping" I go on a mission to get what I need from the store and the quicker the better. I'd rather spend 1 min on the AH than 10-30 min or more (if I am not lucky) in the Market.

You dont have to agree with me, but these changes are what I need in order to have fun. Its just that simple. I'm not here to say that FFXIV is bad. If people enjoy it, then thats great. However this is not the game that I expected nor does it feel like the type of game I expected from SE. I play games like this for high fantasy adventure, not to spend 60% to 70% of my time doing something other than swinging my sword. I have not been playing the game since early November, and have been taking a wait and see approach. If the game does make some satisfactory if not complete changes by PS3 release, then I have my answer. I don't ***** and moan, I leave the people that like the game to it and I move on to another game. However, I will be hard pressed to find a non-PvP focused mmorpg compatible with PS3. :(

I dont think there is a right or wrong direction for the game. Its all up to the opinions of the fans as to what they think in their own minds is a good game. So I make no demands about how the game should be, but given the chance I will fight for how I think it should be (i.e. the recent survey and any other methods SE uses).
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#168 Jan 04 2011 at 1:21 AM Rating: Default
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doubleax wrote:

Talk about not thinking, look in the mirror. You are the one claiming WoW is FFXIV's only competition. Which is so far of base it is comical. FFXIV has been released for 3 months and counting. Anything in terms of players it was suppose to get from WOW has come and gone. FFXIV IS NOT GETTING ANY significant players from WOW. That window is close. And the people playing FFXIV now are not going to WOW. They've already had a bad taste of WOW. That only leaves new game coming out as place they'll try. That is the part you don't get. Those who would have left WOW for FFXIV have done so and those who haved played FFXIV and left for Cataclysm have also done so. There will be no more significant numbers between WOW and FFXIV. The next big exodus will be for new games, not WOW.

So tell us where is FFXIV suppose to get new players then? And how do they plan on keeping people from leaving? I know I'm not alone when these other games are release or if SE starts charging, will bail. The poll done here showed that close to 40% (if not higher) are just here cause it is free and or waiting on another MMO release.

SE, unlike you, is so terrified of these other release that they have let go the game director and brought in a new team. They are so fearful of people leaving they have made it free. These people who leave are gamers. They will play something else. Be it FPS or an MMO they will try something new. So yes, everything coming out is going to impact FFXIV. WHether these games fail or suceed is irrelevent to them taking players away.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 8:11pm by doubleax


You're argument's problem are threefold:

1) The MMO market isn't a zero sum system, new players are joining all the time, and there are, at the very least, throngs of Final Fantasy fans who did not play the game at release who may join at a later date.

2) WoW tourists who left for Cataclysm are a fickle bunch, come 6 months they will barely remember why they hated the game and may come back if it's getting good reviews. Maybe they won't, the point is FFXIV can always steal players from WoW. Its a 12 million player market. FFXIV needs no more than 1% of those to survive.

3) New releases have been pulling players from MMO's for over a decade. Everquest, FFXIV, even WoW suffers from a constant flux of players leaving for greener pastures. Why do these games still exist, and in all three cases continue to thrive? Because new players join, old players come back. Very few people are so vehement that they refuse to play a game after they quit for whatever reason.

Again the only thing that will kill FFXIV is FFXIV, that is to say further failures on SE's part. If they continue to improve the game steadily as they have been, rather than taking a ridiculous amount of time rebuilding it from the ground up, and receive better reviews on PS3 release they will see their product revived no matter what happens in 2011.

Again you seem to have troubles with reading comprehension, I did not say WoW is FFXIV's only competition but what I clearly stated was that 2011 poses no do-or-die threat to the game. If you have never experienced an MMO release prior to FFXIV I can understand your ignorance but you must understand that no MMO that is hyped through the moon actually releases to expectations. I've seen evidence this will be the case with The Old Republic which most likely not succeed where other WoW clones have failed. Guild Wars 2 on the other hand will most likely find the same success as its predecessor, as a niche game, often played on the side of other MMO's. Tera, being the most exciting game to release in 2011, is another niche title that will not attract significant numbers of players to cause any sort of competition.

Let me let you in on a little fact. At 12 million users WoW has more subscribers then all the rest of the MMO's tracked by mmodata.net combined. Mmodata tracks almost every MMO out there including popular free to plays as well as titles you probably have never even heard of. That is 12 million customers (including a significant Chinese subscriber base) for FFXIV (or any other MMO) to lure away. How is WoW not FFXIV's biggest competitor?

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 2:22am by Wloire
#169 Jan 04 2011 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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I highly doubt any of you will quit if they go NGE. Which they won't, but even if they did it would still be named "Final Fantasy" and idc what anyone says, that's the single reason there are people still playing it currently.

If this exact game was release by some Korean company and called "Epic Fantasy World" or something it would have crashed the first month.

If they went "New Game Experience" it would still be named "Final Fantasy" and all the zealots would still be around.



Edited, Jan 4th 2011 6:27am by KristoFurwalken
#170 Jan 04 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
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You're argument's problem are threefold:

1) The MMO market isn't a zero sum system, new players are joining all the time, and there are, at the very least, throngs of Final Fantasy fans who did not play the game at release who may join at a later date.

2) WoW tourists who left for Cataclysm are a fickle bunch, come 6 months they will barely remember why they hated the game and may come back if it's getting good reviews. Maybe they won't, the point is FFXIV can always steal players from WoW. Its a 12 million player market. FFXIV needs no more than 1% of those to survive.

3) New releases have been pulling players from MMO's for over a decade. Everquest, FFXIV, even WoW suffers from a constant flux of players leaving for greener pastures. Why do these games still exist, and in all three cases continue to thrive? Because new players join, old players come back. Very few people are so vehement that they refuse to play a game after they quit for whatever reason.

Again the only thing that will kill FFXIV is FFXIV, that is to say further failures on SE's part. If they continue to improve the game steadily as they have been, rather than taking a ridiculous amount of time rebuilding it from the ground up, and receive better reviews on PS3 release they will see their product revived no matter what happens in 2011.

Again you seem to have troubles with reading comprehension, I did not say WoW is FFXIV's only competition but what I clearly stated was that 2011 poses no do-or-die threat to the game. If you have never experienced an MMO release prior to FFXIV I can understand your ignorance but you must understand that no MMO that is hyped through the moon actually releases to expectations. I've seen evidence this will be the case with The Old Republic which most likely not succeed where other WoW clones have failed. Guild Wars 2 on the other hand will most likely find the same success as its predecessor, as a niche game, often played on the side of other MMO's. Tera, being the most exciting game to release in 2011, is another niche title that will not attract significant numbers of players to cause any sort of competition.

Let me let you in on a little fact. At 12 million users WoW has more subscribers then all the rest of the MMO's tracked by mmodata.net combined. Mmodata tracks almost every MMO out there including popular free to plays as well as titles you probably have never even heard of. That is 12 million customers (including a significant Chinese subscriber base) for FFXIV (or any other MMO) to lure away. How is WoW not FFXIV's biggest competitor?

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 2:22am by Wloire [/quote]

1. The MMO market is a finite number. As people join everyday there are people quiting everyday.The number of players have remained pretty stable for P2P MMO for years now. The big number belonging to WOW and the rest divided umong the rest. That has not change.

2. You think someone quiting WOW is just going tolook at FFXIV? They will look at all games not just FFXIV hence other games are direct competition. If you think 1% of 12 million is enough to survive you are right but that would mean server merge and staff cut in half cause that is 120k subs.

3. Games exist and being succesful are two different things. Scalling staff and servers downs and going F2P model to squize every dime they can before completly folding is existing. Players not being vehement? Go tell that to all those games that have merged servers and cut staff about players not being vehement.

We will just have to agree to disagree. You are not going to convince me otherwise that FFXIV only has WOW to fear in this market.The launch of these other games are around the corner. Like I've stated before. There about 40% of the current palyer base that will bail as soon as other games are release. I'll save this thread till then. Cause that will be the measuring stick. I know I'm pretty confident that the population will spiral down and it won't be because of a WOW xpansion.
#171 Jan 04 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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a little OT but...


I'm just tired of the "doom and gloomers". I'm having fun w/ this game and will continue to do so as long as the servers are up, or I get bored of it (which won't be any time soon as long as I can still easily form parties). In my eyes, they've already "NGE'd" the game when they completely gutted and revamped the SP system, fixed the UI, and named and added a search to the wards and I'm still playing.
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#172 Jan 04 2011 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
a little OT but...


I'm just tired of the "doom and gloomers". I'm having fun w/ this game and will continue to do so as long as the servers are up, or I get bored of it (which won't be any time soon as long as I can still easily form parties). In my eyes, they've already "NGE'd" the game when they completely gutted and revamped the SP system, fixed the UI, and named and added a search to the wards and I'm still playing.


I agree. After having a fun night last night doing leves, behests, and chatting with my linkshell, it makes me chuckle coming here this morning reading about how poor the game is. Different strokes for different folks

in b4 "What you talking about Willis?"
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#174 Jan 04 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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KPBeta wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Llester wrote:
dear SE,

just make FFXI-2. all those PS2 players need to upgrade to a new system any **** way.





Every time I hear this term used it brings to mind THIS:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/ff%20x-2%20girlpower/YoshiGirl/320px-Black_Mage_FFX-2.jpg

Let's NOT forget XIII director was responsible for that mess too.
(seriously SE he has messed up every game he has worked on, maybe it's time to send a pink letter to his desk?!)

Sorry totally O.T. and all that jazz...


Not that I agree with an FFXI-2 (although right now that would be better than FFXIV) but aside from story what was wrong with FFX-2 exactly? and aside from linearity what was wrong with FFXIII? nothing. Both games were good, but their good came with some bad.


And for that matter, aside from killing all those Jews and trying to take over the world, what was wrong with the *****? But no, seriously...

X-2 suffered from three main problems: One was the terminology: Replace Dress Sphere with Job Sphere, Garment Grid with Job Grid, and you've instantly fixed something that caused many people to not want to play. Yeah, it's still pretty princess dressup, but at least if you don't CALL it that, it might have a chance.

Two was the cast of characters. I personally have nothing wrong with a game where all three protagonists were females, but many people did. If there was a mix of female/male protagonists, and possibly a obligatory gender unspecific non human one, you've solved the game's second problem.

Three was the drastic change in Yuna's excitement level, combined with the fact that already excitable Rikku had been turned up to 11. "Gimme a Y! Gimme an R! Gimme a break." indeed. It's a sad state of affairs when the brooding one is the only character that made the game semi-tolerable. Most people do not want to play the video game adaptation of Teen Girl Squad; they want realistic characters with semi-realistic stories and at least somewhat plausible emotions. I was still waiting for Rikku to talk about how "lol guyz r soooo hawt <3 <3 <3" or something. Apply Valium liberally to Rikku and let Yuna be the shy, quiet Summonner she was, with perhaps a bit more confidence; not two guns and a microphone.

But you're right, other than those things, X-2 was a good game.

As for XIII, it might have been good once you got out of the 15-20 hour tunnel. I hear that it was. I'll never know because I don't hate myself enough.


Well I loved X-2 for those reasons. Then again: I also like Sailor Moon for those reasons too so nothing surprising in this corner. >.> <.<

There are many fans of the series who don't like grit, grime, and gore. In fact: the game was commercially successful, and I think that X-2 tapped into those fans—who are quite numerous! I think the three-point argument you are referring to is the likelihood for a certain type of gamer to discuss games on the Internet. A prime candidate for the title of X-2 fan is not one such gamer.


Oh, I'm not saying that NOBODY liked X-2. I liked X-2. Actually, I liked Mystic Quest and Quest 64 too, but that's another matter.

I'm just saying that most people who played and liked X didn't like X-2, and those three things would have made the game appeal to them more.

And I'll admit that I grew up watching Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball (not Z) every morning before Elementary School.

seanjohn112 wrote:
The day I start paying the monthly fees, is the day turn off my account and sell my account.


Not to be snide, but I didn't think there would be a market to buy FFXIV accounts yet. When the game itself is has been bashed like it has due to the *********** of problems and negative reviews, who is going to pay money to buy an account?
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#175 Jan 04 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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seanjohn112 wrote:
The day I start paying the monthly fees, is the day turn off my account and sell my account.

I'll give you a dollar for it! :p
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#176 Jan 04 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I liked FFX-2 :x
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#177 Jan 04 2011 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I liked FFX-2 :x


Ditto, I thought just about all the systems in the game were great. Didn't really like the main characters all that much, and I hated the % completion focus, but battle wise its one of the best.
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#178 Jan 04 2011 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I liked FFX-2 :x


Ditto, I thought just about all the systems in the game were great. Didn't really like the main characters all that much, and I hated the % completion focus, but battle wise its one of the best.


The completion focus ruined X-2 for me. Once I realized that it rated you on percent complete, I couldn't play it without a guide, and once I missed .1% somewhere and couldn't figure out where, I gave up.
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#179 Jan 04 2011 at 7:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I also hated that :/ I didn't get 100%.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#180 Jan 04 2011 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I thought the battle system in ffx-2 was great and made up for the cheesy plot and characters. It was a pretty fast and furious battle system that I thought was really fun.

Another thing I really liked about it was the music.

edit: er the background and fight music, not the cheesy pop song in the beginning Smiley: blush

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:01pm by Libtech
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#181 Jan 04 2011 at 9:14 PM Rating: Good
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Libtech wrote:
I thought the battle system in ffx-2 was great and made up for the cheesy plot and characters. It was a pretty fast and furious battle system that I thought was really fun.

Another thing I really liked about it was the music.

edit: er the background and fight music, not the cheesy pop song in the beginning Smiley: blush

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:01pm by Libtech


I agree. I wasn't a fan of the cheesy pop intro, and I wasn't really a fan of the pretty princess dressup either, but the battle system was pretty fun. I'd love to see the FF6/7/9/10-2 style system (where you accumulate points toward learning an ability) in an MMORPG.

EDIT: Besides EVE, I mean.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:15pm by Mikhalia
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#182 Jan 04 2011 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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I won't be returning until they overhaul the game.

And i might not return even if they overhaul but don't start new servers, or wipe existing ones. Maybe they could merge existing servers, and then reopen some of the servers after the changes.

I know that's not a popular opinion, as the people left playing like the game as-is. But it's obvious that the game is not grabbing the subs (even while it's free) that SE would like... So more than likely a major overhaul is going to happen.
#183 Jan 04 2011 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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I could see starting new servers after all the changes, for anyone who wants to "start fresh". I think wiping all character data on all servers is a TERRIBLE idea though.
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#184 Jan 04 2011 at 10:01 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I think FFXIV's UI is fine.

I think the graphics are fine, but that the world should be redone to offer more variety of zone types and less copypasta.

I still think it needs an AH eventually, but I think the current market ward system is fine while they fix other things first, and if all else was in alignment, could tolerate not having one.

I think the combat system is okay, although I'd like an autoattack option. I would prefer a slower paced combat system where fights take longer and reward more xp.

I would prefer it if grouping was more heavily emphasized and guildleves were de-emphasized where the game encouraged getting a party together of variable size (anywhere from 2-3 up to 10+ if you wanted to) and that regardless of your group size, you can kill monsters appropriately targeted and weighted towards your group to provide a challenge and a reasonable amount of xp in order to level up; where guildleves were redesigned in that there are "solo only" leves and "group only" leves, where there is some content for people who don't have time to group, but where grouping is still the preferred, significantly more efficient method of leveling up.

That's what I'd like, anyway.


THIS!

Yoshida, please do this.
吉田さん、この事をして下さい。
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#185 Jan 04 2011 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I could see starting new servers after all the changes, for anyone who wants to "start fresh". I think wiping all character data on all servers is a TERRIBLE idea though.


Why? What could go wrong with wiping the progress of your entire subscription base, the ones who are most likely to advertise by word of mouth?

I understand the desire to have the game completely rebooted from square one, but yeah, it would be disastrous.

My main concerns at this point are the repetitive and mundane battle, and the general lack of content.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#186 Jan 05 2011 at 2:39 AM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

I think the graphics are fine, but that the world should be redone to offer more variety of zone types and less copypasta.


Please people, stop using the term copypasta. It's a awful meme, isn't funny at all, sounds terrible to read in your head and makes the user, in this case a very respectable intelligent poster, look like a tool. Have a heart, take the a out of copypasta.
#187 Jan 05 2011 at 3:25 AM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Wolfums wrote:
Aristio wrote:
I am having trouble understanding what everyone means by, "WOW-clone." What exactly are you afraid of and what does that entitle? It is the UI interface? Maybe the easy-mode that everyone makes it out to be? I am really not getting the entire argument of "WOW-clone" to begin with. Could someone define "WOW-clone" for me to be able to understand this topic a bit more.


I think by WOW clone, most people think a game that has a WOW-esque leveling system:

- You can get to the cap solo
- You pick up a dozen kill tasks style quests, go do them, and then turn them in to the NPC
- Quests and levelup mobs are extremely simple and easy

... except those describe what WOW was like 3-5 years ago, so I guess not even WOW is a WOW-clone anymore.


As I understand it, all three of those still apply to WoW. You can still get to the cap solo, leveling is still a dozen quests turned in for XP, and the quests and mobs are still simple and easy.

I really do not like the idea of being able to solo to level cap in a multiplayer online game. There are tons of single player games where you can solo to the level cap if you want to; I want to actually play a game that requires (or at least strongly, strongly encourages) me to group up in order to level and in order to overcome obstacles. I have shelves upon shelves of NES, SNES, N64, Playstation, PS2, 360, and PC games that I can play whenever I want, however I want, without worrying about anyone else...

I -want- a game where I -have- to group up with other people to fight things. Not even FFXI is that anymore.

So the question was asked:

"What exactly are you afraid of and what does that entitle?" regarding not wanting "A WoW clone". Here's what I -don't- want in an MMORPG:

- I don't want a game where someone can solo to cap.
- I don't want a "WoW-style" UI.
- I don't want a game where quests (or guildleves) are the PRIMARY form and focus of leveling.
- I don't want a game where PvP is a significant portion of game content, or where it is -ever- mandatory to do PvP.

I totally understand that the response to this post is probably going to be people saying that I'm not going to get that. And I understand that I'm probably not. But that's what I would want.

I get that some people want to be able to play an online game all by themselves; I think it's silly and that there are plenty of SINGLE PLAYER games that accommodate that, but I admit that there is a market for such a game. What I don't care for is that it seems like EVERY MMORPG is going down that path. Where is the multiplayer game for people that WANT to play a multiplayer game? Not where multiplayer is an option and single player is also an option, but the game where multiplayer is the ONLY option (since it is, after all, a multiplayer game).

I find myself in a position where absolutely no MMORPG on the market that I'm aware of currently offers me the experience I want. FFXI -used to- but even FFXI doesn't offer it anymore.



**** I just agree 100% with all of this.... Had soo much fun in FF11, until Toah (after that some team activities were really nice like salvage, but the leveling was so weaksauce it wasn't leveling anything anymore). I really wish FF remain a niche-game for multi-player focus experience (a bit of solo here and there is fine), let the solo crap to the rest of the market, there is room for 1 multi-player title on the market
#188 Jan 05 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I -want- a game where I -have- to group up with other people to fight things. Not even FFXI is that anymore.


Actually, I -think- you want a game where it's more FUN to level with a group of people than to level solo. The thing is, if it's more fun, people are more likely to do it on their own.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#189 Jan 05 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Sidicas wrote:
jooliuscious wrote:

Lastly, I bet if the answer is obvious, then you are way smarter than me, but please elaborate what NGE is. Is it Neon Genesis Evangelion????

It is as far as I'm concerned..
IMO, this game was supposed to be set to be quite a bit more futuristic than FFXI, so I'd definitely take some NGE & Xenosaga mixed in with my FFXIV. So some NGE / Mecha parts would be great.



XIV has mecha already. rank26 Gridania storyline quest. you don't get to fight them though.
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#190 Jan 05 2011 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
If they change the job system I will quit. If any of my progress is lost, I will quit. I wouldn't mind changes other than that - but hands off my classes. This is the ONLY mmo I know of that lets you swap so many abilities between jobs. That is the sole reason I am playing this game - because I like the fact that I can level horizontally.



that
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