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Can a simple Behest change be the answer to party play?Follow

#1 Jan 02 2011 at 10:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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I really like to think the answer to most player's problems are in the game. They just need one last tweak to get them to an ideal level.

Currently, Behest seems like a major part of ranking up DoW/M classes. Though, it's limited to 15 players every hour. SE already has put in the ability to create instances in XIV. Evident early on in the beginning quests.

What I've been pondering is, what if they alter Behest so that a pre-formed party could approach a battlewarden, much like players do now to initiate Behest, only said warden would always be stationed at the camp. The party leader could choose a difficulty level much like leves and then the party is sent into an instance to battle the required monster.

My working concept would be to have the monsters spawn for 30 minutes to an hour and/or a certain number of mobs as to not break a certain SP per hour limit. That way folks could either disband or start over without penalty once the session ends. If the session is set to end in 30 minutes, then the cool down would be 30 minutes also. Thus encouraging players to play at their given skill level and to not breeze through in easy mode. That way they can aim to finish close to the 30 minute mark and not have to wait long to enter again.

I believe this would solve several issues about both Behest and party play incentives.

1) While Behest is "open to all," you have to be swift in obtaining your flag. Otherwise you're waiting an hour for another chance. This will allow players to party on their own schedule.

2) It eliminates the need for open-world camps. Obviously the world needs to be populated with critters. But these can be left for farming and soloing. Giving those seeking specific items or to top off those last few thousand SP the open world to tackle at will.

3) It will avoid the "bad apple ruins the bunch" feel. Behest is fun, but all it takes is one goon to run off in the opposite direction and claim mobs first to ruin 14 other people's good time. With a group of people you know, there's less of a chance you'll come across a person who doesn't quite grasp the concept of "only attack the red mob."

4) This can cater to casual and hardcore players alike. Being that you can enter with a predetermined group of your choosing, the ability to choose your difficulty would allow players to play to their style. One star would be ideal for a handful of friends who just want something quick and easy but would give minimal SP and XP returns. Five stars would be for the hardest of the hard -- a gauntlet requiring focus, strategy and communication -- giving the maximum SP and XP.

5) No waiting at the bottlenecks. Given that Behest is the ideal way to level (while sprinkling in ways to occupy oneself in between sessions), there eventually will be a bottleneck of players vs open spots. This already is evident at the rank 20 camps like Horizon in Thanalan where entrance is a matter of lag from players camping the warden spawn. Given the steep incline of SP per rank 31+, the opportunity to have Behest at will in an instance will alleviate the bottle necking even open world camps suffer from at higher levels.

Some possible downsides could be:

1) Disconnects would likely mean not being able to participate till the current run ends if a DC tosses the character from the instance.

2) An automated feel. I know there is a sense of wonder in discovering a camp in the open that just works. You and your new-found friends enjoy glorious hours of grinding and everyone has a good time. But how long until it's just another camp and its added to the list of "where to grind" posts on every forum?

Right now I'm just brainstorming. But I wanted to gauge public interest. If you all seem to think it's a good idea, I'll put something together for the feedback forums in hopes that SE happens to read it. Just wanted to make sure I'm not loosing my mind waiting for the next warden spawn here.

tl;dr: Behest should be instanced for 30 minute to one-hour sessions as a way for parties to gain SP at will.

Would you support the above behest changes?
Yes. :48 (71.6%)
No. :19 (28.4%)
Total:67
#2 Jan 02 2011 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
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I like this line of thought, Sephrick. It's a good way to mix traditional instance dungeons with instance foundations already clearly in the game, without sacrificing XIV lore or the work put in to date.

We need more constructive ideas like this to help advance the game. Hopefully, the right people in SE are paying attention. Maybe, this could be linked in the feedback forum too?
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#3 Jan 02 2011 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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volta1 wrote:
I like this line of thought, Sephrick. It's a good way to mix traditional instance dungeons with instance foundations already clearly in the game, without sacrificing XIV lore or the work put in to date.

We need more constructive ideas like this to help advance the game. Hopefully, the right people in SE are paying attention. Maybe, this could be linked in the feedback forum too?


Thanks for the reply Smiley: smile

I just wanted to see if it was something people agreed with. If there's enough support I'll clean up the idea and post something in feedback that is a little more formal and thought out.
#4 Jan 02 2011 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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No problem - sounds like a good plan.

To address some of the downsides you listed in the OP - for one you must think they're already working on solving the disconnect issues - whether it be rendering a craft wasted or dropping connection while bound by duty (levequest, behest, etc.), so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

As far as the 'automation' is concerned, not sure I understand that part of it. Streamlining active content seems like it would be a good thing to do. Although, I've read some posts on recent expansions to other large established MMOs where they feel that the new changes "put the game on rails" and take away the wonder from the MMO experience. I suppose, there is a tradeoff there... is that what you were getting at?
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#5 Jan 02 2011 at 10:42 PM Rating: Good
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volta1 wrote:

As far as the 'automation' is concerned, not sure I understand that part of it. Streamlining active content seems like it would be a good thing to do. Although, I've read some posts on recent expansions to other large established MMOs where they feel that the new changes "put the game on rails" and take away the wonder from the MMO experience. I suppose, there is a tradeoff there... is that what you were getting at?


Well I know that some people like the sense of exploration. The sense of automation would come from SPing mainly being "go to one of these three camps at X level till Y level then move to one of three other camps." I was just trying to think of what some other folks might see as a potential downside. In my mind, though, all camps are intentional whether behest or open world, so I suppose that's why I didn't explain it clearly.

But yes, I was getting at that there would be an exchange of that sense of wonder for a dependable grind system.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2011 11:43pm by Sephrick
#6 Jan 03 2011 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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OP, please explain to me how your idea is not the same thing as guildleves.
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#7 Jan 03 2011 at 12:15 AM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:
OP, please explain to me how your idea is not the same thing as guildleves.


It's essentially a blending of guildleves and Behest. But expanding on both ideas to encourage party play without detracting from the leve system. Leves should be kept as-is. But we need a way for dedicated players to grind.

My intention was to take mechanics already present in the game to present a solution to the lack of reasons to party. The only thing it borrows from leves is the ability to scale it on a five-star system. I didn't want to offer some radical change, but rather show that the answers are in the system already. I'm working on a better explanation of my thought for the feedback forums.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 1:16am by Sephrick
#8 Jan 03 2011 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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honestly, the only thing i want changed with behest is it to be every 30 minutes instead of an hour, thatd be awesome
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#9 Jan 03 2011 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:
honestly, the only thing i want changed with behest is it to be every 30 minutes instead of an hour, thatd be awesome


That would be a step in the right direction. My only concern is that the 15-person limit will not be enough when more players hit higher levels.
#10 Jan 03 2011 at 12:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think it would be better to change guildleves to be closer to the thing you described above.
#11 Jan 03 2011 at 12:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hello,
While I can see your line of thought it still wouldnt change behest from anything short of a zerg fest.... Unless they get away from the huge crowds of tightly packed monsters that they are now. Really myself and many others would far rather see at least the party aspect of the game to be more ffxi like. I know thats a bad word around here sometimes but hear me out. The fact that we want this does not mean that the basic idea of your concept would not work but as an alternitive leveling method i.e. solo, party and enhanced behest. I have seen it said that xi style party play would ruin xiv because people would want to do that rather than behest and reduce the number of people for behest. Well how is it bad that I could enjoy my style of leveling? It really shouldnt be a issue. However that being said anything short of comprehensive and challenging party play will drive many away as has been shown in other posts. I applaude your inovation and encourage open thought and to be honest more diversity in leveling options could never hurt, only give us more options when a or b become boring.
Thanks,
Big Jer
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#12 Jan 03 2011 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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Love the ideas! 27 PGL here, and I just recently tried Behest for the first time. It's quickly become my favorite event. I love anything that promotes party play with strangers, and your suggestions do just that. Good stuff!
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#13 Jan 03 2011 at 2:28 AM Rating: Decent
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As of now in the R40 camps around Uldah on Figaro I never see more than 15 people sign up for a behest.
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#14 Jan 03 2011 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly my main source of SP is not behest. Yes, it's a nice little boost every hour but I make more partying and doing leves. Especially post r20. I have a very active linkshell and every night we have groups of around 6-8 do probably 40-50 leves. We have it set up so that the r20 group will do r30 leves while the 30's do 40's. We only do behest if we need a break. By the end of the night I'll have made 300-400k gil just from leves, farmed a **** load of crystals and crafting materials, plus I'll have gained at least two ranks. With behest I'm only getting 2k-4k sp tops and 3k gil every hour? I get that out of one good leve. Behest is made as a time filler for the casual player. If you really want to have some fun, get a good linkshell and try the above. A good party doing a **** load of leves is basically what you're describing as the change to behest, except there's no cooldown.
#15 Jan 03 2011 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
By the end of the night I'll have made 300-400k gil just from leves, farmed a **** load of crystals and crafting materials, plus I'll have gained at least two ranks.


Two ranks a night? Hahaha... enjoy that while it lasts
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#16 Jan 03 2011 at 5:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I didn't say it was all on one class, but I can get at least half a rank on my higher classes
#17 Jan 03 2011 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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If one Camp fills the 15 man limit, you can always tele to other camps. I know the R30 Mines and Wells don't fill up much on my server.
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#18 Jan 03 2011 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
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i like the idea of instanced because i see a huge problem with the way they just dump 20-30 mobs into the open world. however, we all know how instances can become too automated yes. maybe the instance should have random, non-instance related creatures just walking about. or even just simple random roaming patterns. there is honsetly very little that makes open world camps any less automated then instances.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 9:15am by TempLoop
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#19 Jan 03 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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hungerforce wrote:
Honestly my main source of SP is not behest. Yes, it's a nice little boost every hour but I make more partying and doing leves. Especially post r20. I have a very active linkshell and every night we have groups of around 6-8 do probably 40-50 leves. We have it set up so that the r20 group will do r30 leves while the 30's do 40's. We only do behest if we need a break. By the end of the night I'll have made 300-400k gil just from leves, farmed a **** load of crystals and crafting materials, plus I'll have gained at least two ranks. With behest I'm only getting 2k-4k sp tops and 3k gil every hour? I get that out of one good leve. Behest is made as a time filler for the casual player. If you really want to have some fun, get a good linkshell and try the above. A good party doing a **** load of leves is basically what you're describing as the change to behest, except there's no cooldown.



I haven't been so fortunate with leves. The few leve parties Ive been in, it was difficult to convince folks to do the leves on higher than one star. So the leves tend to go quick.

Plus it's a pain when I use up leves solo on a rank 10ish job and someone in /l says they're doing a leve party. Sure they won't mind if I tag along. But without leves of my own it feels like I'm leeching their SP.

I can see how the leve system works for some. But even 30+, do you think you'll be satisfied with the amount of SP you're getting?
#20 Jan 03 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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I've never even seen a 15 man behest anywhere but bloodshore, and even then nobody was left out. I'm afraid what we have here is a solution in search of a problem. It's not needed.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 9:53am by Jefro420
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#21 Jan 03 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jefro420 wrote:
I've never even seen a 15 man behest anywhere but bloodshore, and even then nobody was left out. I'm afraid what we have here is a solution in search of a problem. It's not needed.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 9:53am by Jefro420


On Rab during the evenings and weekends you normally have less than a second to target the warden and accept, as there are 20+ people huddled around him.
#22 Jan 03 2011 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Well a quick fix instead of all that stuff above, how about we make behest like Besiged or like campaign. The current claim system sucks ***, you can only gain skill off of mobs engaged, and those mobs must be part of a group that is being engaged.

If we adjust the claim system, and award SP based upon the actual event, i.e do a behest get 2k SP 3k XP or something along those lines. Kind of like an ENM in XI.

It really sucks doing a behest if there are different parties, or you get that one jack *** who wants to solo the behest and won't join a group ******** the sP for everyone including himself.
#23 Jan 03 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Lamneth of the Seven Seas wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
I've never even seen a 15 man behest anywhere but bloodshore, and even then nobody was left out. I'm afraid what we have here is a solution in search of a problem. It's not needed.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 9:53am by Jefro420


On Rab during the evenings and weekends you normally have less than a second to target the warden and accept, as there are 20+ people huddled around him.

That's unfortunate. The 30+ camps are much less crowded in my experience, so maybe this will change for you when you do more of them there.
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#24 Jan 03 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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EzellLangor wrote:
It really sucks doing a behest if there are different parties, or you get that one jack *** who wants to solo the behest and won't join a group ******** the sP for everyone including himself.

I actually did that intentionally to some JP players who wouldn't invite me because I don't speak Japanese.
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#25 Jan 03 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Default
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Jefro420 wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
It really sucks doing a behest if there are different parties, or you get that one jack *** who wants to solo the behest and won't join a group ******** the sP for everyone including himself.

I actually did that intentionally to some JP players who wouldn't invite me because I don't speak Japanese.


Well against those JP onry groups i say have it......I used to hate those players in XI when you would need a specific job for a PT and the only one seeking was JP and he refused to play with NA..
#26 Jan 03 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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EzellLangor wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
It really sucks doing a behest if there are different parties, or you get that one jack *** who wants to solo the behest and won't join a group ******** the sP for everyone including himself.

I actually did that intentionally to some JP players who wouldn't invite me because I don't speak Japanese.


Well against those JP onry groups i say have it......I used to hate those players in XI when you would need a specific job for a PT and the only one seeking was JP and he refused to play with NA..

They definitely deserved what they got. I had fun soloing 3 goats as slowly as possible while they fought off all the white mobs. lol
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#27 Jan 03 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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EzellLangor wrote:
Well a quick fix instead of all that stuff above, how about we make behest like Besiged or like campaign. The current claim system sucks ***, you can only gain skill off of mobs engaged, and those mobs must be part of a group that is being engaged.

If we adjust the claim system, and award SP based upon the actual event, i.e do a behest get 2k SP 3k XP or something along those lines. Kind of like an ENM in XI.

It really sucks doing a behest if there are different parties, or you get that one jack *** who wants to solo the behest and won't join a group ******** the sP for everyone including himself.


The first thing I thought of while reading the OP was of Moblin Maze Mongers in FFXI, which reminded me how Leves are just gimpy Fields of Valors. Then this reminded me of the new stuff that's supposed to be added in one of the next dew updates. It basically sounds like each of the hamlets (2 per city-state) will have a Campaign/Besieged type battle we'll be able to assist with.

As far as tweaks to Behest; Since there's a 15 player limit, and parties cap at 15.. how about just making it so that as soon as you join Behest you're automatically added to a 'Behest Party'? If you leave the party you're booted from the 'event', and if you're already in a party you won't be able to join. This would encourage interacting with new people, as well as keeping that 1 guy from ******** it up for everyone...
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