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If the wards aren't working out, why are they always full?Follow

#52 Jan 03 2011 at 11:31 PM Rating: Decent
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People need to stop ******* downrate comments only because they disagree with they say.

I'm not even sure why my last post was downrated. I was answering that guy at the best of my abilities.
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#53 Jan 04 2011 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent
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meh rmt are in ff14 i know you guys have seen the 20 man lalafell partys at camps right? and i come from eve online where rmt are less of a hassle simply cause we can wardec and kill them! lol its alot harder to money farm when your being hunted >:)
#54 Jan 04 2011 at 1:01 AM Rating: Good
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People love to karma bomb; I had a poster agree with me and still got knocked to decent.
#55 Jan 04 2011 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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It is reasoning like this that SE is were it is at. The reason it is full is because this is the only way to sell something in this game. Geez. This is like selling one item on a menu in the only resturant in the world and then asking if people didn't like the dish then why is everyone ordering it.
#56 Jan 05 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
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doubleax wrote:
It is reasoning like this that SE is were it is at. The reason it is full is because this is the only way to sell something in this game. Geez. This is like selling one item on a menu in the only resturant in the world and then asking if people didn't like the dish then why is everyone ordering it.


Wouldn't the restaurant logically be empty then?

FFXIV sure isn't empty right now...
#57 Jan 05 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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AH or bust...
#58 Jan 05 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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TheRealDestian wrote:
I see a good number of people who want to see an auction house added to the game. I disagree with this.

Like the title says, if the market ward system truly wasn't working out, why is it so full all of the time?


Hai guyz! hoe coem teh only terrible way to sell goods while offline is actually being used if it sux so much/????

Could it be... oh I don't know.... BECAUSE IT'S ALL WE HAVE TO USE AT THE MOMENT?

{Common sense} {You can have this}

TheRealDestian wrote:
My experiences with AHs in MMOs are very often negative. You put an item up and a minute later, someone undercuts you and the item doesn't sell unless you then undercut them, losing your listing fee in the process. In addition, the retainer system is what allows us to place items for repair overnight without leaving your computer on the entire time so your character can sit in a busy area.


Newflash: No one was hardly ever actually undercut in FFXI. Ever.

Undercutting is selling the item for less than it costs to sell it to a vendor. 99.9% of the items that went onto the AH were always listed above this price in several thousand percent higher profit margin. The fact that other people were smart enough to list their items that they want sold faster than yours by a few gil less isn't "undercutting".

It's called using their brain. I'm sorry that you're very, terribly hurt that other people aside from you need to make money as well in the game.

TheRealDestian wrote:
I've been having FANTASTIC success with the market ward system. It doesn't matter what I'm selling: cloth and fiber, jewelry, tradecrafting tools, etc. I put one of my retainers in the appropriate ward and that stuff SELLS.


Your experience in Market Wards is essentially nothing more than what it was in FFXI. The difference this time is everyone's prices are listed, so people can always park their retainers next to yours with a few gil missing to make sure they sell first. So yes, what you see is that your items sold (just like they did in FFXI eventually, imagine that). What you DON'T see are people buying the slightly lower priced items first -- JUST like in FFXI.

TheRealDestian wrote:
Again, look at how full the wards are right now. The system IS working, and I frankly think ditching it for an AH that invites RMT to move right in and run the economy is a terrible idea.


It works because the players have to force themselves to use it to work. You put in an AH and the majority of those retainers will just become mobile storage facilities. At best, they'll sell items too expensive to have been listed on an AH.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 4:32pm by StrijderVechter
#59 Jan 05 2011 at 3:31 PM Rating: Default
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StrijderVechter wrote:
TheRealDestian wrote:
I see a good number of people who want to see an auction house added to the game. I disagree with this.

Like the title says, if the market ward system truly wasn't working out, why is it so full all of the time?


Hai guyz! hoe coem teh only terrible way to sell goods while offline is actually being used if it sux so much/????

Could it be... oh I don't know.... BECAUSE IT'S ALL WE HAVE TO USE AT THE MOMENT?

{Common sense} {You can have this}


It didn't start getting used until the recent round of ward changes, though.

Prior to the search feature and divided wards, the wards were basically empty and people relied upon personal bazaars for selling things. The fact that this has changed indicates it's a step in the right direction.

In any case, we need more content far more than we need an AH.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 4:32pm by TheRealDestian
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#60 Jan 05 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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TheRealDestian wrote:
In any case, we need more content far more than we need an AH.


Editted above post.

No, you need more than content. You need the fundamental flaws that still exist fixed first. Who cares if you have 3 years of content if the game is a chore to slog through it all. Only people that love exercises of futility would enjoy such an environment.

KujaKoF wrote:
ChoochZero wrote:
Or they could just be sane and use an AH system without a price history? This isn't hard, use the freakin' WoW model and list the seller's name too.

I really feel sorry for people who can't think outside the box of AH = FFXI AH.


yeah, I've wanted this since day one. Out of everything wow did right, their AH system is definitely what I'm most impressed with.


No way. Don't you know that the Market Ward Pro-Camp don't believe in such a fluid system of selling goods? Why should Square-Enix put in a system where you merely need to scroll through a list of items you want and pick the price you wish to pay per item (or stack) amount?

No, these people aren't happy until you're spending 30+ minutes running around trying to find all the colorful little stars (since they're never all in the right ward usually) to compare prices and then hope that you can remember who sold at what price so you can go buy it before someone else does?

Convenience and common sense be damned! We're being innovative here folks!

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 4:38pm by StrijderVechter
#61 Jan 05 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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The market wards will not work simply because of the time sink they produce (we know you white knights dont mind it, but the rest of the world does).

Even if you could search for the items, view the going price, and teleport directly to the retainer carrying the item, you would then have to run back to another search area, and repeat for the next item (thats 2 teleport loads screens per item).

With an AH, you simply browse to your item and pay for it, then it's in your inventory.

I still believe that SE built the markets as an extension of what we saw in FFXI in rolanberry fields. What they failed to see is that the mass majority of items sold were in the AH, and rolanberry fields was only a backup / tax-free zone. The location itself was generated because it did not involve much of a time sink to get to. at the time, most players were in lower Jeuno anyway and its very close to the chocobo rental. The markets are in one of the most inconvenient area in some cities...


On a side note^^
ChoochZero wrote:
I really feel sorry for people who can't think outside the box of AH = FFXI AH.

So we're on the same page, the bottom line is, at the end of the day, we need to think outside of the box?
1970's buzz words do not address modern day issues. (sorry, I couldn't resist)



Edited, Jan 5th 2011 5:45pm by sideways
#62 Jan 05 2011 at 5:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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ETSM wrote:
doubleax wrote:
It is reasoning like this that SE is were it is at. The reason it is full is because this is the only way to sell something in this game. Geez. This is like selling one item on a menu in the only resturant in the world and then asking if people didn't like the dish then why is everyone ordering it.


Wouldn't the restaurant logically be empty then?

FFXIV sure isn't empty right now...


If there was just one resturants it will have customers, not a lot but have some. And those peple will order the only item availible. Just like FFXIV. It wouldn't be empty but not full either.

FFXIV isn't empty but it's not anything close to a healthy population. So much that SE will not yet commit on a date to start charging. They are also so fearfull of people seeing the population that they took the search function out, , fired old director, and about to do a reset/reload. Keep the blinders on. What is said here and what SE is doing tells people what is realy going on. SE is in full blown panic.

edit for spelling

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 6:35pm by doubleax
#63 Jan 05 2011 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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ETSM wrote:
doubleax wrote:
It is reasoning like this that SE is were it is at. The reason it is full is because this is the only way to sell something in this game. Geez. This is like selling one item on a menu in the only resturant in the world and then asking if people didn't like the dish then why is everyone ordering it.


Wouldn't the restaurant logically be empty then?

FFXIV sure isn't empty right now...



This reminds me of the pizza options in a town I lived in 12 years ago. Small town, had a mom and pop pizza place that did fairly well because it was the only pizza place for miles. Their pizza tasted horrible, they were expensive and had no delivery.

Then one day Pizza Hut showed up in town, better pizza, still kinda pricey and they delivered. Suddenly the mom and pop pizza place added delivery and cut prices to compete.

A year or two later Dominos joins the fray. Once again offering better pizza, a lower price and delivery. Mom and pop store went out of business.

The second consumers had a better option they took it. You can get away with selling a horrible product if you don't have any competition. Do you really think people will continue to use the Market Wards if SE gives us an Auction House? The Market Wards will be a ghost town unless SE makes it a tax free zone.
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#64 Jan 05 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
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KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
ETSM wrote:
doubleax wrote:
It is reasoning like this that SE is were it is at. The reason it is full is because this is the only way to sell something in this game. Geez. This is like selling one item on a menu in the only resturant in the world and then asking if people didn't like the dish then why is everyone ordering it.


Wouldn't the restaurant logically be empty then?

FFXIV sure isn't empty right now...



This reminds me of the pizza options in a town I lived in 12 years ago. Small town, had a mom and pop pizza place that did fairly well because it was the only pizza place for miles. Their pizza tasted horrible, they were expensive and had no delivery.

Then one day Pizza Hut showed up in town, better pizza, still kinda pricey and they delivered. Suddenly the mom and pop pizza place added delivery and cut prices to compete.

A year or two later Dominos joins the fray. Once again offering better pizza, a lower price and delivery. Mom and pop store went out of business.

The second consumers had a better option they took it. You can get away with selling a horrible product if you don't have any competition. Do you really think people will continue to use the Market Wards if SE gives us an Auction House? The Market Wards will be a ghost town unless SE makes it a tax free zone.



I am calling BS on this post!!

There is no way in ****, Domino's had better pizza than Pizza Hut.
#65 Jan 05 2011 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
ETSM wrote:
doubleax wrote:
It is reasoning like this that SE is were it is at. The reason it is full is because this is the only way to sell something in this game. Geez. This is like selling one item on a menu in the only resturant in the world and then asking if people didn't like the dish then why is everyone ordering it.


Wouldn't the restaurant logically be empty then?

FFXIV sure isn't empty right now...



This reminds me of the pizza options in a town I lived in 12 years ago. Small town, had a mom and pop pizza place that did fairly well because it was the only pizza place for miles. Their pizza tasted horrible, they were expensive and had no delivery.

Then one day Pizza Hut showed up in town, better pizza, still kinda pricey and they delivered. Suddenly the mom and pop pizza place added delivery and cut prices to compete.

A year or two later Dominos joins the fray. Once again offering better pizza, a lower price and delivery. Mom and pop store went out of business.

The second consumers had a better option they took it. You can get away with selling a horrible product if you don't have any competition. Do you really think people will continue to use the Market Wards if SE gives us an Auction House? The Market Wards will be a ghost town unless SE makes it a tax free zone.



I am calling BS on this post!!

There is no way in ****, Domino's had better pizza than Pizza Hut.


No way! Dominos wins! Especially on thin crust... HANDS DOWN! WOOT!
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#66 Jan 05 2011 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:


No way! Dominos wins! Especially on thin crust... HANDS DOWN! WOOT!


Like I've said before everyone has a right to their opinion, but please know that you're wrong! Pizza Hut's bread sticks and lunch buffet put them on top :P
#67 Jan 05 2011 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Your definition of full is certainly different than mine.

Screenshot

Screenshot

Screenshot


If we add up all the gloves available for sale we have 3.
If we append this grand total with the number of zeros found we have...
300,000,000,000,000,000,000 (300 quintillion)

Thats how many times worse the Markets are compared to an AH, IMO.
#68 Jan 05 2011 at 11:54 PM Rating: Good
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A horse and buggy works fine. In fact, the Amish still use them to this day. But, given the choice between using a horse and buggy to get around and an automobile, I'm going to choose an automobile every time.

Are the market wards "working"? Sure, every bit as much as a horse and buggy work. But, much like a car, I want something better.
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#69 Jan 05 2011 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Newflash: No one was hardly ever actually undercut in FFXI. Ever.

Undercutting is selling the item for less than it costs to sell it to a vendor. 99.9% of the items that went onto the AH were always listed above this price in several thousand percent higher profit margin. The fact that other people were smart enough to list their items that they want sold faster than yours by a few gil less isn't "undercutting".
Unfortunately, there were countless items that actually WERE better to sell via NPC than to sell on the auction house. Partly due to undercutting and partly due to a lack of demand. I sold my first stack of platinum leaf on the auction house before I realised what a massive profit I could've made selling them to the NPC, and that's only one example.
Quote:
If we add up all the gloves available for sale we have 3.
Actually, you'll find those 'zeroes' are sellers in different wards. A lot of people put their items on sale in the wrong wards, mostly due to selling mixed goods. When performing a search like this, it only shows numbers besides the ones being sold in the ward you searched, but the star will still appear over vendors' heads in the other market wards along with them being among the first to load in when you enter.

Try visiting the other wards and you'll see for yourself!

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 1:02am by Glitterhands
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#70 Jan 06 2011 at 12:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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sideways wrote:
Your definition of full is certainly different than mine.

If we add up all the gloves available for sale we have 3.
If we append this grand total with the number of zeros found we have...
300,000,000,000,000,000,000 (300 quintillion)

Thats how many times worse the Markets are compared to an AH, IMO.


To be fair (and keep in mind, this is coming from someone who hates the Market Wards with the passion of a thousand white-hot burning suns), that could be more reflective of where the playerbase is currently at and the mechanics of the limited for sale slots than the Ward system overall.

You're looking at the 0-20 rank inventory, and to be honest there aren't just a whole lot of crafters out there making that range of equipment. By the time we had this search, the majority of the players had moved beyond such needs. By contrast, there's a glutton of equipment for sale in the 35+ range.

Also when those crafters are in that upper tier range of goods, they're using up all 14 of their slots just to move those goods. If there was a demand for those low-level synths (and there obviously is, to some extent), the price point would have to exceed that of the higher skill level to make it worthwhile.

But two things to take out of that: 1) the lack of low-level goods currently in circulation is a bit worrisome. And 2) this "RMT controls auction houses" argument is beyond tripe. I would like someone to provide irrefutable proof that the system we have now in FFXIV stifles RMT economic influence compared to a traditional MMO auction house. Otherwise, stop using unproven speculation as justification to place an unnecessary burden on an entire process.
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#71 Jan 06 2011 at 1:27 AM Rating: Default
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In FF14...you MAKE your own content.

I think the wards are quite unique and fun to go through, perhaps a little troublesome to navigate but definitely a fresh idea. Its not broken, it just requires more legging, but it performs like its meant to. A one-AH economy would cause all the prices to become the same and drop until either the players get tired or the price bottoms out.

What they can do is allow your retainer to choose up to 3 (maybe?) wards to appear in when you have different items you want to sell, with taxes changing according to the amount you choose. The set amount of items allow to be sold is already a prevention toward item flooding. Item searching works wonderfully, the UI for it (as well as the UI for EVERYTHING) does leave a lot to desire.

Currently it feels like a lot of the restrictions and limits in place are set to hamper players from churning through content too quickly. I'd understand how the further away a camp is the more anima it takes, but city to city teleporting shouldn't be costing so much anima, if at all! Encourage interaction without compromising gameplay should be their major focus right now.

Anyway, I'd very happy already if they ever decide to optimize the way crafting works, starting by having only the usable materials to your particular crafting class appear instead of having to scroll through the entire inventory >.<, oh and also a way to see previously learned recipe.
#72 Jan 06 2011 at 2:17 AM Rating: Default
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SharkOutofWater wrote:
The only way I would enjoy an auction house over the market wards (that are continuously being improved) is if it allowed me to put up unlimited things, which actually in the long run will just cause disaster in alot of items.


It can not work like FFXI or it will fail the way this game is set up.

Partial stacks of items sell amazing in the market wards (where you can put up 50 of something, but still sell them at an individual price, so the consumer doesnt have to buy them all if he doesnt want to)

Take shards for example, you put up 999, in the FFXI auction house, your options would be 999 or 1 (just using a basic example, I realize they could improve it some). In the market place, I can put up the 999, and someone could buy 242 if he wanted, and the next person could buy 40, and another could buy 500. None of these sales really would have worked in the AH system as it is in FFXI.

So I would have had no sales, or someone who wanted 242 would have to have bought alot of singles.

You also would lose out on the option to offer other shards for current shards (IE. I want ice, so I will offer wind because I know people want them, and I have tons).

I just see that as one of the things I actually enjoy about the current system. Once they get the crashes sorted out, I actually prefer this system over the ah, and trust me, I usually sell things cheaper then the going rate, so it isnt because I see more profits (I honestly dont really care about money at all in this game, they need to add alot of money sinks to fix that problem, but that is another topic)

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 6:50pm by SharkOutofWater



I agree on 100% of the points made above. Lass crash (like once a week, to allow new people in the booth from time to time) and the ward would be pretty fine to me. I can find what I need pretty fast, what I can't fine is not here in the first place anyway.
#73 Jan 06 2011 at 3:48 AM Rating: Decent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
The wards are working out atm because they have to, there's no other choice. Put an AH in the game and we will see how active the wards are after about an hour.



That right on the spot!

But why not make ward +AH done, Retainer need to sell at least 20items.

and search need to be alot better. it aleast should tell which ward retainer in too

Right now i looking for more content though :)
#74 Jan 07 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Caia wrote:
Are the market wards "working"? Sure, every bit as much as a horse and buggy work. But, much like a car, I want something better.

Unless you drive a Ford. Then you're better off with a horse and buggy.
#75 Jan 07 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
The wards are working out atm because they have to, there's no other choice. Put an AH in the game and we will see how active the wards are after about an hour.


This. Currently, the market wards are more efficient than bazaars, so that is what people will use. If an AH is implemented and it is more efficient than the market wards, then people will use that instead. People are usually going to use whatever method sells their stuff the fastest.


agree 100%, we need an AH
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#76 Jan 07 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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sideways wrote:
Your definition of full is certainly different than mine.

Screenshot

Screenshot

Screenshot


If we add up all the gloves available for sale we have 3.
If we append this grand total with the number of zeros found we have...
300,000,000,000,000,000,000 (300 quintillion)

Thats how many times worse the Markets are compared to an AH, IMO.


I think this may be indicative of a different problem entirely...

Though, I've thought about it and I think a world-wide AH would still be good to have, but only if it spans ALL cities, not just one.

Edited, Jan 7th 2011 12:59pm by TheRealDestian

Edited, Jan 7th 2011 1:12pm by TheRealDestian
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#77 Jan 07 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:


I am calling BS on this post!!

There is no way in ****, Domino's had better pizza than Pizza Hut.



I'm just sad you guys think either are good.

If I had to pick I'd go with Domino's though. They've changed for the 'better' (I use that term loosely) and have a better crust.

Pizza Hut pizza is just a sponge for grease.
#78 Jan 07 2011 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Can I say "What about Little Caesars?" so that people can laugh?
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#79 Jan 07 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Can I say "What about Little Caesars?" so that people can laugh?


laugh or barf.
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