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Did Adding Anima Ruin Player's Patience for Travel?Follow

#1 Jan 03 2011 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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I'm asking this question because I'm just curious on what you guys think.

In FFXI you didn't have anima. You had White Mages that could teleport you to specific places in the world, chocobos, a ferry, and airships; but absolutely no way for any player to just pop in and out of an area easy. There was a lot more traveling and a lot more running. If you wanted to go to your party spot in Yuhtunga Jungle, guess what? You had to jump on a chocobo to get there safely. Sure, it was a pain, but no one really complained all that much, at least not nearly to the extent that people complain about traveling now.

So here's my additional questions... eventually we'll have airships and eventually we'll have chocobos, but will people use them? Will people still complain about the travel time? Will they still complain about anima costs/regain? And will these complaints be warranted?

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 8:13pm by Joscerelle

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 9:56pm by Joscerelle
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#2 Jan 03 2011 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I think a lot of people are used to wow. With the dungon finder you never actually have to leave town to go from level 1-85. People are spoiled now and going back to the days of 10 minutes to an hours worth of travel wont be excepted by the average MMO'er since the majority of MMO'ers play WOW.
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#3 Jan 03 2011 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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No other MMO these days releases with your travel options being "run" or "port using special currency on a very slow recharge." They always feature options to get around to places you've already visited. They typically aren't instant and they're usually not free but they're something. Most games don't force you to bind to the location where you're questing and don't return you to your home point when you die.

The thing is, the people I know who are most active in the game grinding ranks and meeting up with people for levequest parties and doing all that are mostly out of anima so it's not like they're accustomed to just porting everywhere they go. And they're sick and freaking tired of running everywhere to the point where someone who would previously take the ferry from LL and run to Ul'dah to give someone a half stack of moko grass now won't even run from Ul'dah to Camp Horizon unless there's a very significant reason to do so.

So no, I don't think anima has spoiled anyone to the point where less costly and more reliable options would be shunned in favor of porting. And I think that the longer it takes SE to get alternative methods of faster travel into the game, the more people are going to leave because they're tired of having to spend so much time running instead of doing the things they're on their way to do.
#4 Jan 03 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Default
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
I think a lot of people are used to wow. With the dungon finder you never actually have to leave town to go from level 1-85. People are spoiled now and going back to the days of 10 minutes to an hours worth of travel wont be excepted by the average MMO'er since the majority of MMO'ers play WOW.


Nonsense. Dungeons are only one aspect of play in WoW. People still travel all over the world on an extremely consistent basis for questing through all level ranges, but they have the benefit of flight masters, ships, and zeppelins to get around until they reach the level where they can get their own flying mount. You're too quick to take shots at WoW. Gear down, big rig, and think it through.
#5 Jan 03 2011 at 9:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I have to disagree with you. Places didn't take more than ten minutes to get to in FFXI, whereas takes an hour to get from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania. We had walking, chocobo's, Warp, Escape, Teleports, Recalls, Retrace, Free Warp Taru, Imperial Silver Taru, Outpost Warps, FoV Warp, Airships, Moogle Teleports, Warp Scrolls/Cudgels, Salaheem Sentinal Warps, Crag Teleports (To Sky), Runic Portals, Outpost Warp (Past Areas), and Maw Warps.

Now, we take a look at what we have in FFXIV. Walking, Anima, and Boats. The options we have now compared to what we had in FFXI is laughable. Also, you have to take into consideration that FFXI had set camps, and didn't take very long getting to. Whereas in FFXIV, the best way to gain SP is to travel to all the cities and do leves, which is either time consuming or costly in anima.
#6 Jan 03 2011 at 9:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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I disagree that people lost patience. There is a big different between running and riding a Chocobo. I would actually love riding the bird around sightseeing without aggros.
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#7 Jan 03 2011 at 9:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Doubt it. I think once other options are introduced, anima will become the "casual" or quick travel when trying to sneak leves into a 30 minute period of time. And for players who play frequently it will be used to special occasions, meeting people quickly.
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#8 Jan 03 2011 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aristio wrote:
I have to disagree with you. Places didn't take more than ten minutes to get to in FFXI, whereas takes an hour to get from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania. We had walking, chocobo's, Warp, Escape, Teleports, Recalls, Retrace, Free Warp Taru, Imperial Silver Taru, Outpost Warps, FoV Warp, Airships, Moogle Teleports, Warp Scrolls/Cudgels, Salaheem Sentinal Warps, Crag Teleports (To Sky), Runic Portals, Outpost Warp (Past Areas), and Maw Warps.


Did you not play ffxi before they added/made viable most of that stuff? I played back when there weren't half those things you mention, and I can remember it taking a looooong *** time to get places. I can remember sky used to require an outpost warp, then a run through meriph or sauromuge, then zitah, through the teleporter, and then FINALLY to sky. And trying to get to Norg? Oh, it's only a trip from jeuno on an airship to khazam, then a 10 min choco ride through the maze of yhuntugna, and then a quick jaunt through the caves on the way to norg (but don't aggro the skeles that are IT until you're about level 40 or you won't even make it). >.>

I'm not justifying the lack of chocobos and airships in this game. To be perfectly honest, they should have been implemented by now and I agree with the frustrations of those who are low on anima. However, don't compare this games travel to a ffxi game that was out for 6+ years before a lot of those things you mentioned were included and/or viable.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 10:54pm by BartelX
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#9 Jan 03 2011 at 9:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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people do not like travel times, this is true, but being able to teleport across the world and back instantly ruins world cohesion and certainly creates a general impatience with regard to travel. I have heard people say that they "can't get to camp" because they have to walk; I have also made tens of thousands of gil from people too impatient to walk, people who pay for teleports.

I would rather have had chocobos and frequent airship flights than instant teleportation from camp to camp... but SE didn't implement any other travel options, and now we're forever stuck with anima, hopping from disconnected hub to disconnected hub.
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#10 Jan 03 2011 at 10:24 PM Rating: Good
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Golophei wrote:
I disagree that people lost patience. There is a big different between running and riding a Chocobo. I would actually love riding the bird around sightseeing without aggros.


I know, while playing other MMOs I've always been outraged that riding your mount wasn't an aggro free experience
#11 Jan 03 2011 at 10:32 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Aristio wrote:
I have to disagree with you. Places didn't take more than ten minutes to get to in FFXI, whereas takes an hour to get from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania. We had walking, chocobo's, Warp, Escape, Teleports, Recalls, Retrace, Free Warp Taru, Imperial Silver Taru, Outpost Warps, FoV Warp, Airships, Moogle Teleports, Warp Scrolls/Cudgels, Salaheem Sentinal Warps, Crag Teleports (To Sky), Runic Portals, Outpost Warp (Past Areas), and Maw Warps.


Did you not play ffxi before they added/made viable most of that stuff? I played back when there weren't half those things you mention, and I can remember it taking a looooong *** time to get places. I can remember sky used to require an outpost warp, then a run through meriph or sauromuge, then zitah, through the teleporter, and then FINALLY to sky. And trying to get to Norg? Oh, it's only a trip from jeuno on an airship to khazam, then a 10 min choco ride through the maze of yhuntugna, and then a quick jaunt through the caves on the way to norg (but don't aggro the skeles that are IT until you're about level 40 or you won't even make it). >.>

I'm not justifying the lack of chocobos and airships in this game. To be perfectly honest, they should have been implemented by now and I agree with the frustrations of those who are low on anima. However, don't compare this games travel to a ffxi game that was out for 6+ years before a lot of those things you mentioned were included and/or viable.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 10:54pm by BartelX


Sorry BartelX, but im gonna side with Aristio on this one. I've been playing ffxi for years even before ToAU or Wotg or any of the addons were made available. So while some of the modes he listed werent readily available, the fastest way around in FFxi was using the outpost warp. The only hassle was waiting for your nation to control the area before you could flag it for use (so to speak). Now when they added ToAU and Wotg it took them a rather long time even before they allowed Chocobo's to even be used in those area's.

So lets compare before the release of ToAU and WoTG and all the stuff they added in later, travel methods shall we.

FFxi - Teleports, Chocobo's (needed to gain license to even ride one) , Outpost warps, Airships (needed rank 5 or 6 cant remember its been so long, just to ride it or pay 500k)
FFxiv - Teleports (from other members) and your own self teleport, Return (basically warp)

So viable options for a new person just starting out in either game are limited to just teleports, warps - Being able to use the airship and riding a chocobo will take them time to do in ffxi.

In regards to anima yes it does suck, the amount of time it takes to gain it back. I range from 0-40 and map out what im gonna do on each day and what I would need to use anima wise to get things done that i plan on.

Edit: spelling errors

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 11:33pm by SillyHawk
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#12 Jan 03 2011 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Traveling is just especially frustrating in FFXIV, because you have to travel miles for EVERYTHING.. . You get somewhere to grind, and after 30 min to an hour you have to run all the way back to town just to dump your inventory.

I think if they had vendors and repair npc's at Aetherytes, and each aetherytes quest npc at the crystal, it would remove the need to travel allover the world for simple things, and we wouldn't run out of anima so fast and be stuck wasting hours of our lives hoofing it allover the world.

Yes, in FFXI you had to go on a long run once in awhile, but in this game half the time you're logged on is spent running from one place to the next.
#13 Jan 03 2011 at 11:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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For the first 3 years or so (i forget exactly...) in ffxi the only options for travel were teleports, chocobos, airships and running on foot.

What this meant was that for any party that took place in a remote region, you had to factor atleast half an hour for travel alone.

half an hour of real time where everyone was doing nothing but running from one place to another. that really isn't an example of engaging game play.

When SE introduced outpost warping it was a godsend. it still could take fair amounts of time to get places but travel time was significantly reduced. the game actually became more enjoyable, because starting a party no longer involved waiting 30-45 minutes just for everyone to arrive at the camp. it made it easier to replace people if someone had to leave. it meant that more time could be spent playing the game rather than just slogging through the world hoping you don't get killed on the way to wherever it is you're going.

anima is not a bad thing. The people who want to explore can still explore. but when you need to be someplace and you don't have alot of time to get there it's nice to know that most locations are just a few clicks away.
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#14Rankin657, Posted: Jan 03 2011 at 11:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) anima sucks to dam slow to recharge and who cares if it took ff11 all those years for the travel methods to be added this is ff14 where SE had the experience of ff11 and they threw it all out the window and tossed in teaser chocobo stables and other things like airships docks as a slap in the face to the players
#15 Jan 04 2011 at 12:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
For the first 3 years or so (i forget exactly...) in ffxi the only options for travel were teleports, chocobos, airships and running on foot.

What this meant was that for any party that took place in a remote region, you had to factor atleast half an hour for travel alone.

half an hour of real time where everyone was dodging aggro, running from one place to another.
FTFY. When they added new areas like ToAU and WoTG, the same was true. There was a lot of running around on foot attempting to dodge the aggro. WOTG was especially bad for this until they added chocobos, since most of the enemies you'd encounter would aggro you even at level 75. No one ever thought of it as a bad thing, just something that goes with the territory.

Consider this, those of you who dislike the anima system. In FFXI you had to physically travel to the location you wanted to get to if you ever wanted to teleport there. Mostly this involved collecting crystals at telepoints or visiting outposts under your city's control. In FFXIV it's possible to get every teleport location without ever having been there, simply by having another player teleport you there themselves. So now, you don't even need to put in the effort to explore if you know someone who's already been there.

In some ways the teleport system has taken something away from the game. I'm sure anyone who has played FFXI will remember the days of dodging crabs in the Boyahda Tree as you try to get to camp, or sneaking past beastmen in Davoi. I miss the sneak and invisible spells, but to be honest theres few applications for those spells in FFXIV since you can often dodge aggro far easier than you could in FFXI. Now you can just teleport to any location, skipping all of the aggro and appear instantly ready to fight in the camps. More convenient, sure, but not necessarily more enjoyable.

Part of the joy of games like this is the exploration aspect. Visiting places you've never been to, learning which enemies aggro and which do not. Finding new camps, and seeing new sights are all part of the fun. When you can teleport anywhere in the blink of an eye it takes a little something away from the game experience in my opinion.
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#16 Jan 04 2011 at 12:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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SillyHawk wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Aristio wrote:
I have to disagree with you. Places didn't take more than ten minutes to get to in FFXI, whereas takes an hour to get from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania. We had walking, chocobo's, Warp, Escape, Teleports, Recalls, Retrace, Free Warp Taru, Imperial Silver Taru, Outpost Warps, FoV Warp, Airships, Moogle Teleports, Warp Scrolls/Cudgels, Salaheem Sentinal Warps, Crag Teleports (To Sky), Runic Portals, Outpost Warp (Past Areas), and Maw Warps.


Did you not play ffxi before they added/made viable most of that stuff? I played back when there weren't half those things you mention, and I can remember it taking a looooong *** time to get places. I can remember sky used to require an outpost warp, then a run through meriph or sauromuge, then zitah, through the teleporter, and then FINALLY to sky. And trying to get to Norg? Oh, it's only a trip from jeuno on an airship to khazam, then a 10 min choco ride through the maze of yhuntugna, and then a quick jaunt through the caves on the way to norg (but don't aggro the skeles that are IT until you're about level 40 or you won't even make it). >.>

I'm not justifying the lack of chocobos and airships in this game. To be perfectly honest, they should have been implemented by now and I agree with the frustrations of those who are low on anima. However, don't compare this games travel to a ffxi game that was out for 6+ years before a lot of those things you mentioned were included and/or viable.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 10:54pm by BartelX


Sorry BartelX, but im gonna side with Aristio on this one. I've been playing ffxi for years even before ToAU or Wotg or any of the addons were made available. So while some of the modes he listed werent readily available, the fastest way around in FFxi was using the outpost warp. The only hassle was waiting for your nation to control the area before you could flag it for use (so to speak). Now when they added ToAU and Wotg it took them a rather long time even before they allowed Chocobo's to even be used in those area's.

So lets compare before the release of ToAU and WoTG and all the stuff they added in later, travel methods shall we.

FFxi - Teleports, Chocobo's (needed to gain license to even ride one) , Outpost warps, Airships (needed rank 5 or 6 cant remember its been so long, just to ride it or pay 500k)
FFxiv - Teleports (from other members) and your own self teleport, Return (basically warp)

So viable options for a new person just starting out in either game are limited to just teleports, warps - Being able to use the airship and riding a chocobo will take them time to do in ffxi.

In regards to anima yes it does suck, the amount of time it takes to gain it back. I range from 0-40 and map out what im gonna do on each day and what I would need to use anima wise to get things done that i plan on.

Edit: spelling errors


Ok, maybe it's just late, but what are you even saying? You say you are siding with Aristio, but I have yet to figure out how your post disagrees with me. It seems to just be pointing out that Outpost Warps are like teleports, only you can't do them from anywhere like anima at the cost of their being a finite supply (of anima). Other than that, you listed out the options and point out that they are very similar for a new player in both games. I agree. There's also a comparison about ToAU and WoTG but I really don't understand what you are trying to point out. You said yourself most of the modes weren't around pre-ToAU, and I'm pretty sure Outpost Warps weren't implemented in ffxi until well after PS2 launch (anyone care to fact check that, I can't seem to find info on it).

So what exactly are you disagreeing with me about?
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#17 Jan 04 2011 at 12:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've generally been harsh on FFXIV, but Anima is one thing that should be in every MMORPG in some form or another. Traveling from point A to point B for 20 minutes doesn't constitute "fun". I'm very happy SE added this to the game.
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#18 Jan 04 2011 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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The thing that I really fail to understand regarding warping in FFXIV, is that only the party member paying for the warp has to have the Aetheryte. Party members will be teleported, even if they have not visited the location once themselves on foot.

Now that is what I call stupid and non sensical.
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#20 Jan 04 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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While I admit I am guilty of liking the convenience that someone can teleport you to an Aetherite and you can hitch a ride without ever having been there, I still think the game should have required you to visit and touch the location at least once.

Even FFXI had Outpost Warping, which allowed you to instantly travel to a number of locations (although you had to go to the NPC to do it, couldn't just do it from anywhere).

One could argue that, as the OP puts it, Anima does "ruin players' patience for travel", but I think that the notion of wasting time traveling to a location you have already visited on a regular basis is just an unneeded time sink. Any FFXI player who uses outpost warps regularly will tell you how much easier they make life when your travel can be done via OP rather than being tethered only to six teleport destinations.

The lack of chocobos/airships doesn't help though.
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#21 Jan 04 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
Easy instant transport shrinks the size of any game world. Anima is no exception. I try to walk when I have the time, but I iften find myself only havin 1-2 hours every other day to play with RL obligations.
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#22 Jan 04 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Players are spoiled by Anima, if you see yourself runing out is because you're using it way too much. Lore wise if a character uses the Aetehrites too much he will be sick up to the possibility of being incapacitated (read red riden or something).

Myself The lowest I even got was just under 60 at r30 when i did both ARM and main story quests at the same time. Guess what, im back to 80-90.

I tend to teleport once, maybe twice a leve reset and make the point to at least travel between Ul'Dah and LL by ferry on weekends when I have the time to do it.
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#23 Jan 04 2011 at 10:11 AM Rating: Default
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I think ADD ruined peoples patience for foot travel. I speak form experience, I've got a bad case. :P
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#24 Jan 04 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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have one craft at 30+ and a bunch of others around 20. 30+ you're lucky if you get one or two leves that are 30 or 35. forcing you to take leves for other crafts...have fun wasting all your anima in less than a week porting from camp to camp to camp dropping off leves.

the fact is if you play a lot, you'll still run more than teleport because you are usually all over the place.
#25 Jan 04 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Jefro420 wrote:
I think ADD ruined peoples patience for foot travel. I speak form experience, I've got a bad case. :P


Everyone always likes to talk about ADD, when in reality it all boils down to the plain and simple fact that-ooh, shiny rock!
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#26 Jan 04 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Running isn't so bad if you put it on auto and take some shots and smoke in between ^^

But seriously i hope they get on those chocobos soon. I always use my anima for stupid *** stuff and end up below 10 and have to conserve and kill myself for free teles. Why they STILL have not added them is beyond me but i hope its very soon.
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#27 Jan 04 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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I agree that running for 30 minutes just to reach a destination isn't fun, but at the same time, instant travel to as many locations as we have in FFXIV is bringing MMORPGs one step closer to first person shooters. We've all but lost the "RPG" aspect already. Travel is disappearing. I predict leveling will be the next thing to go as it's clear most people just want to get to end-game as fast as possible. The importance of gear is diminishing with the lack of combat swaps and no level requirements. Pretty soon MMORPGs will simply consist of picking a dungeon encounter from a menu, choosing your teammates from another menu, completing the dungeon, and earning achievements. Rinse and Repeat.

I realize this is a slippery slope argument, but you can't argue we're not headed there in one way or another. Compare any modern MMO with the games that founded the genre and you'll see that many aspects that defined the MMO have been removed.
#28 Jan 04 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
I realize this is a slippery slope argument, but you can't argue we're not headed there in one way or another. Compare any modern MMO with the games that founded the genre and you'll see that many aspects that defined the MMO have been removed.


Can you be any more dramatic?

The only defining features of MMOs are tactically designed timesinks to slow down people from reaching a goal, player driven storyline elements, and social interaction. Last I checked, every single one of those elements is in every single MMO on the market (even if they're poorly implemented).

Timesinks? Check.

Player-driven story? Check.

Leveling? Check.

Some minute form of endgame? Check (except FFXIV).

Frustrating/pointless mechanics designed to **** you off (that are usually later removed)? Check.

So uh, what elements are missing? Trimming down the timesinks to make them more management and platable isn't removing them. Some of you, however, are so damned fearful of change that you won't be happen until dying in an MMO just permanently deletes your character, raid bosses fall from the sky to one-shot you for no reason, and it takes you half a day to reach your camp site to pull mobs for 12+ hours.

I think the elderly are more accepting of changes (ones that make sense, and attempt to make your playtime more enjoyable) than some of you former FFXI players. It's really, really pathetically sad.

EDIT: The last time I checked, having the option to teleport to and from places doesn't prevent you from running to destinations if you so choose. So, what's your whinging about when you're freely able to waste as much time as you personally want to get somewhere in the game? That option's there; Square-Enix hasn't taken it away from you. You're not required to use Anima at all and can freely pretend that it doesn't exist.

All I see are a bunch if children crying that people didn't have to walk uphill to school (both ways!), barefoot, in the snow with broken legs, and killing bears with their loose-leaf notebooks along the way -- all because the other children choose instead to ride the **** bus.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 1:25pm by StrijderVechter
#29 Jan 04 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
SillyHawk wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Aristio wrote:
I have to disagree with you. Places didn't take more than ten minutes to get to in FFXI, whereas takes an hour to get from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania. We had walking, chocobo's, Warp, Escape, Teleports, Recalls, Retrace, Free Warp Taru, Imperial Silver Taru, Outpost Warps, FoV Warp, Airships, Moogle Teleports, Warp Scrolls/Cudgels, Salaheem Sentinal Warps, Crag Teleports (To Sky), Runic Portals, Outpost Warp (Past Areas), and Maw Warps.


Did you not play ffxi before they added/made viable most of that stuff? I played back when there weren't half those things you mention, and I can remember it taking a looooong *** time to get places. I can remember sky used to require an outpost warp, then a run through meriph or sauromuge, then zitah, through the teleporter, and then FINALLY to sky. And trying to get to Norg? Oh, it's only a trip from jeuno on an airship to khazam, then a 10 min choco ride through the maze of yhuntugna, and then a quick jaunt through the caves on the way to norg (but don't aggro the skeles that are IT until you're about level 40 or you won't even make it). >.>

I'm not justifying the lack of chocobos and airships in this game. To be perfectly honest, they should have been implemented by now and I agree with the frustrations of those who are low on anima. However, don't compare this games travel to a ffxi game that was out for 6+ years before a lot of those things you mentioned were included and/or viable.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 10:54pm by BartelX


Sorry BartelX, but im gonna side with Aristio on this one. I've been playing ffxi for years even before ToAU or Wotg or any of the addons were made available. So while some of the modes he listed werent readily available, the fastest way around in FFxi was using the outpost warp. The only hassle was waiting for your nation to control the area before you could flag it for use (so to speak). Now when they added ToAU and Wotg it took them a rather long time even before they allowed Chocobo's to even be used in those area's.

So lets compare before the release of ToAU and WoTG and all the stuff they added in later, travel methods shall we.

FFxi - Teleports, Chocobo's (needed to gain license to even ride one) , Outpost warps, Airships (needed rank 5 or 6 cant remember its been so long, just to ride it or pay 500k)
FFxiv - Teleports (from other members) and your own self teleport, Return (basically warp)

So viable options for a new person just starting out in either game are limited to just teleports, warps - Being able to use the airship and riding a chocobo will take them time to do in ffxi.

In regards to anima yes it does suck, the amount of time it takes to gain it back. I range from 0-40 and map out what im gonna do on each day and what I would need to use anima wise to get things done that i plan on.

Edit: spelling errors


Ok, maybe it's just late, but what are you even saying? You say you are siding with Aristio, but I have yet to figure out how your post disagrees with me. It seems to just be pointing out that Outpost Warps are like teleports, only you can't do them from anywhere like anima at the cost of their being a finite supply (of anima). Other than that, you listed out the options and point out that they are very similar for a new player in both games. I agree. There's also a comparison about ToAU and WoTG but I really don't understand what you are trying to point out. You said yourself most of the modes weren't around pre-ToAU, and I'm pretty sure Outpost Warps weren't implemented in ffxi until well after PS2 launch (anyone care to fact check that, I can't seem to find info on it).

So what exactly are you disagreeing with me about?


It's not so much comparing what was currently at launch of FFXI, to the launch of FFXIV. It's more so the fact that they had all that experience with their previous MMO, so that they had no excuse to not release it with Chocobo's, Airships, Teleports, Warps, ect; and not just Anima or Walking. That was my main point, and I'm sorry I didn't fully explain it in more detail. But, I'm more upset at the fact that: 1, There are only two options of travel; and 2, they haven't learned much of anything from FFXI.

If they wish to keep Anima the -only- way to travel (Which I doubt) I suggest one of two options. 1, let a NPC recharge Anima at the cost of 1 Crystal or 10 Shards. OR. 2, lower the recharge of anima to 1 every hour.
#30 Jan 04 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
I think a lot of people are used to wow. With the dungon finder you never actually have to leave town to go from level 1-85. People are spoiled now and going back to the days of 10 minutes to an hours worth of travel wont be excepted by the average MMO'er since the majority of MMO'ers play WOW.


Nonsense. Dungeons are only one aspect of play in WoW. People still travel all over the world on an extremely consistent basis for questing through all level ranges, but they have the benefit of flight masters, ships, and zeppelins to get around until they reach the level where they can get their own flying mount. You're too quick to take shots at WoW. Gear down, big rig, and think it through.

You're kidding, right? I literally leveled my alt to 20 from Durotar to Barrens and then never left Orgrimmar from 20-80 using the LFD tool, and I still leveled faster than most people who left town to grind.
#31 Jan 04 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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The recharge rate of Anima makes players weigh the importance of each instant travel.

The system falls somewhere in between the unlimited instant travel available in other games and the required repetitive chocobo/foot travel that bogged down each play session in FFXI.

I think the Anima system is a perfect balance between both extremes, in that it requires a bit of planning on the player's part.

Chocobos and Airships promise to fill out the travel system nicely.

#32 Jan 04 2011 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think Anima has ruined anyone's patience. It's just that the only other option for travel is walking and it's painfully inadequate considering how enormous the zones are and how much the game encourages you to travel. I quit FFXI before outpost warps truly became a popular method for travel (I had only a few destinations enabled) and I found the options we had quite reasonable. No camp was so far you couldn't get there with a teleport + chocobo in a reasonable time frame and you didn't have to constantly run between cities the way you do in FFXIV.

The only exceptions to the fast travel rule were some really remote locations like the Beaucedine Glacier side of Battallia Downs (popular camp for the first genkai quest) that you didn't have to constantly visit and where the dangerous journey was part of the quest. I still remember how my L40-50 group hauled our newbie asses through Ranguemont Pass (we got lost on the way) to Beauceidne Glacier (we got lost in the snow storm) and finally to Battallia Downs and the Eldieme Necropolis (we died a bunch because Liches are scary). Other than the abysmal drop rate for the quest item I enjoyed every arduous minute of it. It was a true adventure WoW wouldn't know even if it bit it in the ***.
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#33 Apr 07 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
I think the primary problem is the fact that the Markets aren't linked. I'm not suggesting an auction house, I'm rather suggesting that there be a way to travel to just the Markets without using Anima, or at least viewing whats there without going there. The economy and available items between citys has such a variance the only way to craft (especially armor and clothing due to the need for all of the **** dyes) succesfully is to travel between all three citys, and that bloody sucks.
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#34 Apr 07 2011 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Joscerelle wrote:
I'm asking this question because I'm just curious on what you guys think.

In FFXI you didn't have anima. You had White Mages that could teleport you to specific places in the world, chocobos, a ferry, and airships; but absolutely no way for any player to just pop in and out of an area easy. There was a lot more traveling and a lot more running. If you wanted to go to your party spot in Yuhtunga Jungle, guess what? You had to jump on a chocobo to get there safely. Sure, it was a pain, but no one really complained all that much, at least not nearly to the extent that people complain about traveling now.

So here's my additional questions... eventually we'll have airships and eventually we'll have chocobos, but will people use them? Will people still complain about the travel time? Will they still complain about anima costs/regain? And will these complaints be warranted?

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 8:13pm by Joscerelle

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 9:56pm by Joscerelle

the travel time was considered an unnecessary and excessive time sink by most developers and players.
my main job was SMN in FFXI, i did the prime fights early on without any explanation of the consequence of not being able to ever teleport back to the crystal, this caused me to have to walk, and walk, and walk for what seemed like several long boring hours just to get to Fei-yin or whatever that snow crag place was called.
im not asking for free anime, just some different speed mounts we can get and some air travel for eorzeas sake.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 5:36pm by pixelpop
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#35 Apr 07 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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SoumaKyou wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
I think a lot of people are used to wow. With the dungon finder you never actually have to leave town to go from level 1-85. People are spoiled now and going back to the days of 10 minutes to an hours worth of travel wont be excepted by the average MMO'er since the majority of MMO'ers play WOW.


Nonsense. Dungeons are only one aspect of play in WoW. People still travel all over the world on an extremely consistent basis for questing through all level ranges, but they have the benefit of flight masters, ships, and zeppelins to get around until they reach the level where they can get their own flying mount. You're too quick to take shots at WoW. Gear down, big rig, and think it through.

You're kidding, right? I literally leveled my alt to 20 from Durotar to Barrens and then never left Orgrimmar from 20-80 using the LFD tool, and I still leveled faster than most people who left town to grind.

when i played WoW both my friends and the game itself lead me to different zones all the time, except for one large area.(cant remember now but dont know why i never had to go there)
if you only stayed in one area than you cheapened your own experience because there are dozens of areas to level for each level range.

edit, just realized double post.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 5:42pm by pixelpop
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#36 Apr 07 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I haven't lost patience myself.. actually, my Anima number is always in the 90s.. because I always cycle through cities like this..:
Limsa -> Boat to Thanalan -> Run to Ul'Dah with Hermes' Shoes if available for use -> Run to Gridania -> Teleport back to Limsa..
So yeah, unless I'm in a hurry.. I like running, traveling and seeing the (virtual) world.. lol..

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 5:44pm by KaineGestalt
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#37 Apr 07 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Most of the people power leveling to 80 in WoW dungeons have already spent hundreds of hours in the other zones.

I leveled a mage up to 70 without doing any dungeons. That was fun. But when I wanted to level a healer and a tank of the same faction to 70, I decided to do it with dungeons. Now I'm leveling up a shaman on the other faction, and I'm doing a combination. Throwing in some battlegrounds, too. Next I'm gonna level up on a PVP server in different zones and hope to find some open-world action.

Am I spoiled? Maybe. I'm having fun though.
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#38 Apr 07 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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yfaithfully wrote:
Most of the people power leveling to 80 in WoW dungeons have already spent hundreds of hours in the other zones.

I leveled a mage up to 70 without doing any dungeons. That was fun. But when I wanted to level a healer and a tank of the same faction to 70, I decided to do it with dungeons. Now I'm leveling up a shaman on the other faction, and I'm doing a combination. Throwing in some battlegrounds, too. Next I'm gonna level up on a PVP server in different zones and hope to find some open-world action.

Am I spoiled? Maybe. I'm having fun though.

sounds like you have options. WoW is known for being easy mode, but having different ways to level especially when you could care less about the insessant grind on a class you only need to use once a month (idk, just a hypothetical) isnt really the part that makes WoW easy mode to me.
how is it a bad thing to throw in some PVP, dungeons and world quests to spice up life?
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#39 Apr 07 2011 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Yep, it sure did. Granted, I really do enjoy being able to teleport nearly anywhere I want to go no matter what my class or rank is lol.

I do find it silly how people some how complain about travel in this game or get all ****** off at the game if they are low on anima. In the 5 years I played FFXI, I don't recall ever hearing someone complain about it and we had no anima type option.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 6:27pm by Scape13
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#40 Apr 07 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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SoumaKyou wrote:
You're kidding, right? I literally leveled my alt to 20 from Durotar to Barrens and then never left Orgrimmar from 20-80 using the LFD tool, and I still leveled faster than most people who left town to grind.


Funny, because FFXI wasn't all that different. After having plowed through Valkurm, I never left Jeuno to travel for more than 3 minutes. Then at 60, I sat my *** down in White Gate and never went farther than a 3 minute trip to get to a camp.

You think WOW has unused leveling zones/areas? Like 90% of FFXI is unusable for leveling.
#41 Apr 07 2011 at 5:54 PM Rating: Default
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People only frequent the same camps over and over due to imbalanced monster design and the human tendency to take the path of least of resistance.
The option to level in different locations is available to every party. But if a monster has lower hit point, defense, give substantially faster xp/sp and does less damage or debuffs to the party compared to other monsters. Players trend to the faster route.

ALot of players ask for challenging enemies and variety. But often those same players revert to burn parties. We saw it happen in XI. Skillchains, magic burst, and player team based skills became less required to advance as your levels raised. I enjoy and still enjoy the camps that make things a little difficult and inconvenience me in a small way. Places like Caedarva Mire with it's AoE silence and amnesia imps, King Rampere Tomb paralyze, blood agro undead, etc. But you can read in linkshell chat that some players loathe anything that makes progress slower.
You can bet that regardless of battle mechanic updates. If they provide easy mode camps to the harder ones and don't make the sp worth it for fighting more challenging battles. Alot of players will take the path of least resistance.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 7:56pm by sandpark
#42 Apr 07 2011 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
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Sorry if it seemed I was singling out battle in a travel thread. I had a point though lol. The game needs Balance in all areas.
If Anima was free or recharged way too fast. Any alternate form of travel would either have to be the only way to reach or explore an area or it would be a novelty or hobby. Something you only do when your bored or feel like exploring.
Now some may say,"Why should I be forced to explore or travel to take longer than 1min." Imo and this is just my opinion. When you start shrinking travel or exploration down to only optional or make players self efficient. The breadth, scale, reliance of comrades and persistance of the world takes a hit.
If the game was only a hub/chat room where environments didn't matter much, then I would have no problem with instant travel.

It is very easy to balance the world if SE just takes the time to monitor and adjust the game on an ongoing basis.
1.Monitor area or zone traffic
2.Investigate why each zone or area is frequented more than others.
3.Buff content or mobs in low traffic areas or nerf content in the high traffic areas, until world traffic evens out.
4.Any content that is repeatable must have depletable lifespan(Events like Besieged, Campaign, Assaults, Rewards don't last forever and must be reaquired or sustained upkeep, designed to be upgradable in future updates)
5.Never create rewards that are superior in every shape and form and only need aquired once, until really late in lifespan of game.
#43 Apr 07 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Traveling is just especially frustrating in FFXIV, because you have to travel miles for EVERYTHING.. . You get somewhere to grind, and after 30 min to an hour you have to run all the way back to town just to dump your inventory.

I think if they had vendors and repair npc's at Aetherytes, and each aetherytes quest npc at the crystal, it would remove the need to travel allover the world for simple things, and we wouldn't run out of anima so fast and be stuck wasting hours of our lives hoofing it allover the world.

Yes, in FFXI you had to go on a long run once in awhile, but in this game half the time you're logged on is spent running from one place to the next.



I'm sorry, but is there anything that drops in the game that is worth dumping back to your retainer? I have been capped out at 100 just dumping everything that I come across. There is nothing rare/ex that drops, and the mats are negligible.
#44 Apr 07 2011 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
The thing is, the people I know who are most active in the game grinding ranks and meeting up with people for levequest parties and doing all that are mostly out of anima so it's not like they're accustomed to just porting everywhere they go. And they're sick and freaking tired of running everywhere to the point where someone who would previously take the ferry from LL and run to Ul'dah to give someone a half stack of moko grass now won't even run from Ul'dah to Camp Horizon unless there's a very significant reason to do so.

/raises hand. "Guilty."

Between porting around for leves, crafting, NMs, doing story missions, doing job quests, checking the market wards in different cities, etc., I've usually got anima in the single digits. And often, running for 30 minutes to do a 10 minute quest, and then spending another 30 minutes running back, doesn't seem like a good use of my time. So I end up not doing things that I would otherwise enjoy.

Anything that would decrease the amount of time it takes to get to a mission would make the game more enjoyable for me. I prefer the fighting/farming/crafting parts of the game to the "long-distance runner" simulations. It's all about getting the most out of my in-game time. Obviously, as long as I have the option of instantaneously teleporting, I'll do that. But when I'm out of anima -- which is pretty much all the time right now -- I'd much rather spend 15 minutes riding a Choc than 30 minutes running.
#45 Apr 08 2011 at 1:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Scape13 wrote:
Yep, it sure did. Granted, I really do enjoy being able to teleport nearly anywhere I want to go no matter what my class or rank is lol.

I do find it silly how people some how complain about travel in this game or get all ****** off at the game if they are low on anima. In the 5 years I played FFXI, I don't recall ever hearing someone complain about it and we had no anima type option.


I seem to remember FFXI had a reliable, cheap, constantly available travel option after you hit 20. Can't remember the name of it though.
#46 Apr 08 2011 at 2:54 AM Rating: Good
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Each day I say to myself "Alright, tomorrow I'm gonna start conserving anima". But it never happens = D

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#47 Apr 10 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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FFXI:
  • Chocobos
  • Airships
  • Outpost Warping
  • Warp Cudgels (and other event/CP/BCNM items: Treat Staff II, Outpost Ring, lvl 65 teleport rings, etc)
  • Warp Scrolls
  • Teleport Spells (WHM)
  • Warp/Warp II (BLM)
  • Kaduru-Haiduru
  • And now, Abyssea warping




Edited, Apr 10th 2011 1:16pm by bsphil
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#48 Apr 10 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Default
I think Anima was horrible. Not even going to reason why. It was just the worst "invetions" ever in a MMORPG. They had experience with warp scrolls, rings, magics from players, chocobos, airships and someone there just came up with this atrocious idea. Letting that system coming into the game as a bandaid for the lack of traveling features alone imo was motive enough to fire Tanaka.
#49 Apr 10 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think it's anima that's the problem, it's the lack of any means of transportation aside from insta-port.

Unless you are actually abstaining from anima, the system is set to bring you to a zero balance sooner or later.
You do anything that costs more than 6 anima in a day, and you are working toward a 0 balance at some point. Leve runs alone are going to cost more than that, unless you want to spend 5 hours doing them all.

Mathematically speaking, this leaves us all the option at some point of the only transportation being running everywhere. You can say XI didn't have all these means of transport right away, but by the 6 month mark, yes, we did have chocos available at level 20, and really, how long did it take to hit the level for the airship pass quest? Not to mention the maps were set up in such a way that even on foot, it was relatively equal distance to the common areas like Jeuno, VD, etc. In the case of Windy, there was even a ferry to adjust for the distance to VD compared to the other cities. This (XI) was their first run at designing an MMO, and they new from the jump transportation options were required. Once again we're left to wonder how such an obvious mandatory and elementary MMO design was overlooked in a 2010 release, and why it hasn't been addressed by now.

In this game, if you're not from Ul'Dah, it's gonna be a LONNNGGGG run from either of the extreme opposites, ****, it's a nice long run just from Ul'dah to Grid or vice versa. No one wants to, or should be expected to spend 1/2 their game time steering their character down a road. It's poor MMO design, and should have been addressed LONG ago, if not at launch.
The time for ignoring this issue is about over, the devs need to either increase anima regen or remove anmia usage until they activate the other travel options. No option is not an option.

Edited, Apr 10th 2011 5:31pm by Restyoneck
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#50 Apr 10 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
I think a lot of people are used to wow. With the dungon finder you never actually have to leave town to go from level 1-85. People are spoiled now and going back to the days of 10 minutes to an hours worth of travel wont be excepted by the average MMO'er since the majority of MMO'ers play WOW.


Let's take a closer look at the Dungeon Finder. The sad fact is that it only benefits the Tank classes. They're the only ones that can get an instant group with the Dungeon Finder. For non-Tank types, it's a very slow method to level. The DPS and the Healer (little bit less so) can be stuck waiting 15-mins to 1-hour(plus) depending upon their level to find a team. Most will still strike out into the world to do normal quests/farming/grinding and feel lucky if they get a team fairly quickly.
#51 Apr 10 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Joscerelle wrote:
You had White Mages that could teleport you to specific places in the world, chocobos, a ferry, and airships; but absolutely no way for any player to just pop in and out of an area easy.


These days, long waits for getting somewhere really isn't heard of in FFXI (with a few exceptions). Almost anyone can get into any zone they need to with relative ease, without the need for a long airship ride, a spell, or a chocobo. And with Abyssea, you can teleport almost anywhere within the zone itself.

The thing is, when it comes to battlefield events, the biggest frustration is waiting for your crew to make the long journey to where you are. While it's fine to make an adventure out of getting somewhere distant for the first time, it gets old pretty fast when you want to get there on a regular basis.

I think you'll have a hard time convincing today's MMO players that half the fun in getting somewhere is the journey, especially when you only have a couple of hours to play.

That said, Anima was not meant to be the be-all-and-end-all for transportation in FFXIV, so it does put the idea of transportation in FFXIV in an awkward spot. I understand the desire for some limitations to prevent abuse, to get people to consider other forms of transportation, and to make the idea of insta-warping around the world a special thing that isn't as ubiquitous as breathing. Would you even consider taking a plane, train, bus, or car anywhere if you just instantly teleport to any location from any location as often as you want?

In any case, the current system can't stay the same. They either have to give in to making Aetheryte warping more normative, or (finally) introduce other ways of getting around.
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