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Just HOW is lvling slow if so many people are 50?!Follow

#1 Jan 04 2011 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
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I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.
#2 Jan 04 2011 at 3:37 AM Rating: Decent
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You are 100% correct but boys will be boys and the biggest d.., soory, the highest rank/level will always be the coolest char on the block.
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#3 Jan 04 2011 at 3:45 AM Rating: Default
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I think it's just that it seems slow because the combat is so slow paced. Like waiting for a pot of water to boil.
#4 Jan 04 2011 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
I think it's just that it seems slow because the combat is so slow paced. Like waiting for a pot of water to boil.



In XI I AM waiting for my coffee water to boil WHILE I AM IN BATTLE! And I still love it.

XIV speed is like XI on crack especially during behests.
Should XIV be Guitar Hero on Hard mode to please everyone?


I often have trouble even targeting the mob before my pt has shredded it to bits and has moved on to their 4th target.
#5 Jan 04 2011 at 3:55 AM Rating: Decent
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If you're talking about DoW/DoM, the SP rate has been nerfed big time. Even if you abuse the Leve link, you barely gain SP at the optimal rate as before. All the other time though, the SP rate is lowered significantly. Pre-nerf, you can get from 15k-25k SP/hr depends on your luck/grouping/class. After the nerf, abusing the leve link (by abuse, I meant you intentionally fail "good" leve to keep it for next cycle), you get 20k SP/hr for like an hour every 36 hours. Normal grind/leve/behest give about 10k-15k SP/hr.

If you're talking about crafting, Goldsmith and Alchemist received a big nerf in term of recipes to grind. GLD is forced to grind on recipe ten times more expensive and harder to get for the same SP rate as before. If you think it is so funny, try to buy Gold Sand/Ore for Electrum Ring. From r43 to r50 you will waste about 48,645,000 to 77,832,000 gil based on the market rate, and provide that there are people selling. Before the Nov patch, this is closer to 4,324,000 gil (silver needle).

If you don't think that's slow, I don't know what is.
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#6 Jan 04 2011 at 4:00 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
If you're talking about DoW/DoM, the SP rate has been nerfed big time. Even if you abuse the Leve link, you barely gain SP at the optimal rate as before. All the other time though, the SP rate is lowered significantly. Pre-nerf, you can get from 15k-25k SP/hr depends on your luck/grouping/class. After the nerf, abusing the leve link (by abuse, I meant you intentionally fail "good" leve to keep it for next cycle), you get 20k SP/hr for like an hour every 36 hours. Normal grind/leve/behest give about 10k-15k SP/hr.

If you're talking about crafting, Goldsmith and Alchemist received a big nerf in term of recipes to grind. GLD is forced to grind on recipe ten times more expensive and harder to get for the same SP rate as before. If you think it is so funny, try to buy Gold Sand/Ore for Electrum Ring. From r43 to r50 you will waste about 48,645,000 to 77,832,000 gil based on the market rate, and provide that there are people selling. Before the Nov patch, this is closer to 4,324,000 gil (silver needle).

If you don't think that's slow, I don't know what is.


She/he said while the info box shows your character is 50 and other job is 40 while some others are 30+ few months after release date.

If what you're saying is true then I should reach the cap much much slower. Thank god.
#7 Jan 04 2011 at 4:16 AM Rating: Decent
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seiferdincht wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
I think it's just that it seems slow because the combat is so slow paced. Like waiting for a pot of water to boil.



In XI I AM waiting for my coffee water to boil WHILE I AM IN BATTLE! And I still love it.

XIV speed is like XI on crack especially during behests.
Should XIV be Guitar Hero on Hard mode to please everyone?


I often have trouble even targeting the mob before my pt has shredded it to bits and has moved on to their 4th target.


I don't really mean the speed of which a mob dies. It's more about the entire mechanic of combat in the game. I would actually like mobs to take twice as long to kill, with more reward. But the system in the game is so, infantile, and immobile. When I was playing FFXI 6+ yrs ago that kinda thing was fine, but since then things have changed, games are moving more toward platformer type action combat, and away from old school basic 1990's rpg mechanics. I can't really explain it, you have to have played another mmo in the past 5 or so years besides FFXI. I would suggest you go download DDO for free and try the combat there,(the game blows but the combat is epic compared to FFXIV) will give you an idea of what something "on crack" would be like.



BTW, I don't play Guitar Hero, but isn't "hard" kinda easy, my 11 yr old brother rips it on Expert. So maybe that's a clue to the type of gamer this combat is suited for.
#8 Jan 04 2011 at 4:36 AM Rating: Decent
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first of all you can't compare a game in 2010 with a game in 1999.

everything changed, if it was ok to hit cap i 1 year in ffxi, its not ok to hit cap in 4 months in 2010.
if it was ok to build a game where leveling is the main factor in 1999, its not ok in 2010.

99.9% of the MMO's in this generation is build around end game content, where your leveling is your learning experience to know how to play your character, then you hit cap and start doing the cool end game stuff.

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#9 Jan 04 2011 at 4:48 AM Rating: Decent
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daour wrote:
first of all you can't compare a game in 2010 with a game in 1999.

everything changed, if it was ok to hit cap i 1 year in ffxi, its not ok to hit cap in 4 months in 2010.
if it was ok to build a game where leveling is the main factor in 1999, its not ok in 2010.

99.9% of the MMO's in this generation is build around end game content, where your leveling is your learning experience to know how to play your character, then you hit cap and start doing the cool end game stuff.



Sorry but why isn't it okay?

With so many MMOs going around today why not have a MMO which is different so that people that like bigger, longer chalanges can have their own game?

I always saw FFXI's difficulty, time dependency as a great sifter that excluded people which were just looking for easy, quick rewards (which usually will equal more imature players although not always). I think this was the main reason why the comunity in FFXI was so great as oposed to other games, probbaly including FFXIV.
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#10 Jan 04 2011 at 5:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
daour wrote:
first of all you can't compare a game in 2010 with a game in 1999.

everything changed, if it was ok to hit cap i 1 year in ffxi, its not ok to hit cap in 4 months in 2010.
if it was ok to build a game where leveling is the main factor in 1999, its not ok in 2010.

99.9% of the MMO's in this generation is build around end game content, where your leveling is your learning experience to know how to play your character, then you hit cap and start doing the cool end game stuff.



Sorry but why isn't it okay?

With so many MMOs going around today why not have a MMO which is different so that people that like bigger, longer chalanges can have their own game?

I always saw FFXI's difficulty, time dependency as a great sifter that excluded people which were just looking for easy, quick rewards (which usually will equal more imature players although not always). I think this was the main reason why the comunity in FFXI was so great as oposed to other games, probbaly including FFXIV.



I agree with Hugus (great name btw).

Games have changed but to me it's for the worse.
Everything is "hit A to reach the end of the game in under 6 hrs".
No need to target anything as everything is done automatically for you.
No need to jump as it's done for you (Assassin's Creed jesus!)
No need to think about moves just keep hitting the action button to perform a wide variety of moves you have no control over (Batman)
No need for equipment or any strategy just shoot (Mass Effect 2)
No need to fear dying as you are constantly auto-saved everywhere (Limbo)
No need to explore just follow the corridor (Modern Warfare)


I agree that games have changed, but if this is the future then I want to go back to the past.

I also enjoy XI way more than any of the above design innovations in modern games that are all critically acclaimed.

So do many others when I see Jeuno Packed with people running around I get this feeling that I'm not the only one feeling the way I do about "modern" games.

#11 Jan 04 2011 at 5:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
daour wrote:
first of all you can't compare a game in 2010 with a game in 1999.

everything changed, if it was ok to hit cap i 1 year in ffxi, its not ok to hit cap in 4 months in 2010.
if it was ok to build a game where leveling is the main factor in 1999, its not ok in 2010.

99.9% of the MMO's in this generation is build around end game content, where your leveling is your learning experience to know how to play your character, then you hit cap and start doing the cool end game stuff.



Sorry but why isn't it okay?

With so many MMOs going around today why not have a MMO which is different so that people that like bigger, longer chalanges can have their own game?

I always saw FFXI's difficulty, time dependency as a great sifter that excluded people which were just looking for easy, quick rewards (which usually will equal more imature players although not always). I think this was the main reason why the comunity in FFXI was so great as oposed to other games, probbaly including FFXIV.


if your looking for a hard long game then its not FFXIV, they said it was directed for casual gamers, people that log on for 2 hours a day and get some progress done.
FFXI is not FFXIV, if people still love how FFXI works then SE should consider rebuild it with new graphics and better system, if that's what they want.

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#12KristoFurwalken, Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 5:11 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well, everyone has a right to their opinion. If you like older more basic, childish games, that is definitely your right.
#13 Jan 04 2011 at 5:17 AM Rating: Decent
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seiferdincht wrote:
Hugus wrote:
daour wrote:
first of all you can't compare a game in 2010 with a game in 1999.

everything changed, if it was ok to hit cap i 1 year in ffxi, its not ok to hit cap in 4 months in 2010.
if it was ok to build a game where leveling is the main factor in 1999, its not ok in 2010.

99.9% of the MMO's in this generation is build around end game content, where your leveling is your learning experience to know how to play your character, then you hit cap and start doing the cool end game stuff.



Sorry but why isn't it okay?

With so many MMOs going around today why not have a MMO which is different so that people that like bigger, longer chalanges can have their own game?

I always saw FFXI's difficulty, time dependency as a great sifter that excluded people which were just looking for easy, quick rewards (which usually will equal more imature players although not always). I think this was the main reason why the comunity in FFXI was so great as oposed to other games, probbaly including FFXIV.



I agree with Hugus (great name btw).

Games have changed but to me it's for the worse.
Everything is "hit A to reach the end of the game in under 6 hrs".
No need to target anything as everything is done automatically for you.
No need to jump as it's done for you (Assassin's Creed jesus!)
No need to think about moves just keep hitting the action button to perform a wide variety of moves you have no control over (Batman)
No need for equipment or any strategy just shoot (Mass Effect 2)
No need to fear dying as you are constantly auto-saved everywhere (Limbo)
No need to explore just follow the corridor (Modern Warfare)


I agree that games have changed, but if this is the future then I want to go back to the past.

I also enjoy XI way more than any of the above design innovations in modern games that are all critically acclaimed.

So do many others when I see Jeuno Packed with people running around I get this feeling that I'm not the only one feeling the way I do about "modern" games.




that's the main problem, people want things regardless of what the product offers.

you want this, i want that, he wants those, everyone wants something, that dose not mean everyone will get what they want.

when they said they are going to introduce FFXIV to the market, they said its for casual gamers, the exact words was (taking casual gamers as our main focus).

this means all hardcore gamers should stay playing FFXI and jump in FFXIV from time to time just to do some progress, but for the people that have 2 hours to play a day, FFXIV is for you.

i know how FFXI feels, i played for 6 years, loved it, but don't have time to play for 9+ hours a day now, so i left.
now SE know that allot of people left just because they have the same issue that i have, and they want us back, so they came up with FFXIV, but its not working, so they have to fix it.
is it a smart move?, maybe, if it was up to me, i would have made FFXI more appealing to all gamers instead of having FFXIV.
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#14 Jan 04 2011 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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daour wrote:
Hugus wrote:
daour wrote:
first of all you can't compare a game in 2010 with a game in 1999.

everything changed, if it was ok to hit cap i 1 year in ffxi, its not ok to hit cap in 4 months in 2010.
if it was ok to build a game where leveling is the main factor in 1999, its not ok in 2010.

99.9% of the MMO's in this generation is build around end game content, where your leveling is your learning experience to know how to play your character, then you hit cap and start doing the cool end game stuff.



Sorry but why isn't it okay?

With so many MMOs going around today why not have a MMO which is different so that people that like bigger, longer chalanges can have their own game?

I always saw FFXI's difficulty, time dependency as a great sifter that excluded people which were just looking for easy, quick rewards (which usually will equal more imature players although not always). I think this was the main reason why the comunity in FFXI was so great as oposed to other games, probbaly including FFXIV.


if your looking for a hard long game then its not FFXIV, they said it was directed for casual gamers, people that log on for 2 hours a day and get some progress done.
FFXI is not FFXIV, if people still love how FFXI works then SE should consider rebuild it with new graphics and better system, if that's what they want.


Never did I say I was looking for a FFXI lookalike (tbh I am looking for a FFXI comunity lookalike) but a game with long timed targets doesn't mean that it's not casual friendly... the major drawback in FFIX was that unless you were playing for 2 hours there was barelly anything you could actually achieve in that time.

FFXIV you can achieve comething as short as in 20 minutes, in my view that is why SE consider's it more casual friendly.
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#15 Jan 04 2011 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:


I agree that games have changed, but if this is the future then I want to go back to the past.

I also enjoy XI way more than any of the above design innovations in modern games that are all critically acclaimed.

So do many others when I see Jeuno Packed with people running around I get this feeling that I'm not the only one feeling the way I do about "modern" games.



Well, everyone has a right to their opinion. If you like older more basic, childish games, that is definitely your right.



Edited, Jan 4th 2011 6:12am by KristoFurwalken


XD oh dear.

I guess I wasn't clear enough.
Compared to many old games Modern Warfare and Assassins Creed feel like Farmville to me.

I'm aware of the fact that these games that play themselves for you (XIII) are the popular choice among kids these days.
#16 Jan 04 2011 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:


I also enjoy XI way more than any of the above design innovations in modern games that are all critically acclaimed.

So do many others when I see Jeuno Packed with people running around I get this feeling that I'm not the only one feeling the way I do about "modern" games.



Well, everyone has a right to their opinion. If you like older more basic, childish games, that is definitely your right.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 6:12am by KristoFurwalken


What an asinine way to post your disagreement. You state people have the right to their opinion and then brand their opinion as older, more basic, childish games. Go fail somewhere else.

#17KristoFurwalken, Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 6:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) LOLUMADBRO!?!?!?!?!?!?!
#18 Jan 04 2011 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
LOLUMADBRO!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Now maybe you can log off the sock and come on your actuall account so I can apologize.


Like you would ever apologize Smiley: rolleyes
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#19 Jan 04 2011 at 6:21 AM Rating: Default
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Oh please Wint, I apologize all the time...

I'm married so it seems like all I ever do is apologize about stuff all day long......
#20 Jan 04 2011 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I actually agree the SP costs per rank themselves seem to be pretty much fine the way they are. They could maybe use a little more smoothing out so that you don't go immediately from a rank every other leve to one every day at rank 20, but I don't want to be at the cap in a month or two in a genre of game I could end up playing for years.

The real issue for me is that there's almost nothing to do outside of raising different classes, and that means nothing to break up the overwhelming SP costs. If there were instances to run, NMs to camp, non-leve quests to complete for reward items or just scenes, mini-games to play...anything other than just grinding your three types of skills it would be a lot more bearable. The class quests and main quests are decent, but they're really few and far between, not to mention they require you to grind your rank up anyway. The worst part is that there's just not a whole lot of point to it other than to be more powerful; without content that would require a high rank, actually grinding it out isn't that exciting.

Basically, the game needs to be "Ah, I finally hit rank 25. Time to take a break and see what quests I can do, and maybe camp some rare mobs that drop things that would make me better," but instead it's more like "Ah, I finally hit rank 25. Time to do grind more crafting leves and kill more coblyns so that I can do even more crafting leves and grind higher level coblyns." The lack of other things to do highlights the grind, however short or long it may actually be.
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#21 Jan 04 2011 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Oh please Wint, I apologize all the time...

I'm married so it seems like all I ever do is apologize about stuff all day long......


Smiley: laugh Touché.
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#22 Jan 04 2011 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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TheMoreYouKnow wrote:
I actually agree the SP costs per rank themselves seem to be pretty much fine the way they are. They could maybe use a little more smoothing out so that you don't go immediately from a rank every other leve to one every day at rank 20, but I don't want to be at the cap in a month or two in a genre of game I could end up playing for years.

The real issue for me is that there's almost nothing to do outside of raising different classes, and that means nothing to break up the overwhelming SP costs. If there were instances to run, NMs to camp, non-leve quests to complete for reward items or just scenes, mini-games to play...anything other than just grinding your three types of skills it would be a lot more bearable. The class quests and main quests are decent, but they're really few and far between, not to mention they require you to grind your rank up anyway. The worst part is that there's just not a whole lot of point to it other than to be more powerful; without content that would require a high rank, actually grinding it out isn't that exciting.

Basically, the game needs to be "Ah, I finally hit rank 25. Time to take a break and see what quests I can do, and maybe camp some rare mobs that drop things that would make me better," but instead it's more like "Ah, I finally hit rank 25. Time to do grind more crafting leves and kill more coblyns so that I can do even more crafting leves and grind higher level coblyns." The lack of other things to do highlights the grind, however short or long it may actually be.


This I agree with.
The grind should be means to achieve something else not the actual goal.
#23 Jan 04 2011 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
LOLUMADBRO!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Now maybe you can log off the sock and come on your actuall account so I can apologize.


Not a sock, I just don't post very often. As far as mad or hurt feelings, nope not a one. Just found your post without merit and in a moment of insanity, I replied to it.

No need to apologize, was just calling to notice the type of posts that make the forums here so wonderful.

Enjoy the game. Or not. kthxbai

#24 Jan 04 2011 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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seiferdincht wrote:
I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.


See, here's my issue: there's no content. The few there is its for rank 50s. In XI you had a bunch of things to keep you entertained until you hit 75. But on XIV you're pretty much negligible if you aren't 50.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 8:01am by MajidahSihaam
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#25 Jan 04 2011 at 7:11 AM Rating: Decent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Oh please Wint, I apologize all the time...

I'm married so it seems like all I ever do is apologize about stuff all day long......


haha

This one gets a rate up the rest you failed with and nice fast subdefault for you :P

Anyway my thoughts on ranking up. I have previously stated how I do infact like the game but at the moment I behest for 15 mins then im off my computer waiting for the next behest. Am I to play for 15mins per hour if I only want to rank up at the moment? Party play SP needs a fix which is what this boils down to (bonuses and chains), I like behest during the day when the kids are awake, I can do that and give them my attention for the rest of the time no problems. But when theyre asleep I should be able to go faster not just at the same speed.
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#26 Jan 04 2011 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.


See, here's my issue: there's no content. The few there is its for rank 50s. In XI you had a bunch of things to keep you entertained until you hit 75. But on XIV you're pretty much negligible if you aren't 50.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 8:01am by MajidahSihaam


And what content was that except RoZ and CoP which werent there at launch, not that much and what there was is comparable to what FFXIV does have!
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#27 Jan 04 2011 at 7:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with the premise of the OP, but leveling DoL is slow as balls. Especially botany. I'd rather go to the dentist than chop those trees over and over for crap SP.

Luckily there are some dedicated botanists on my help to supply for carpentry and repair needs ^^
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#28 Jan 04 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.


Well here is my opnion. When I first started playing ffxi in 2004 it was slow going and that was fine but keep in mind that was my first MMO ever. Now after getting to around level 60ish I started to hate the grind alot. I was a RDM so it was never a problem getting a party but I still hated it. Well low and behold I must not have been the only one since they changed the EXP curve. Also by the time, there where alot of things I could not do or would be able to get help doing unless I was higher ( I really wanted to play SMN with avatars ready to go ).

Having a job at cap makes everything else jsut a bit more easier. If you had a job in ffxi at cap, you didnt need to redo genkai, you prolly had some gear, skills leveled up, teleports/outpost done, etc. Even if there is no endgame it still makes things eaiser.

I know people here hate wow, but I though their system of leveing up was jsut fine. I tried to just grind mobs al la ffxi and it doesnt work. the whole do a quest get exp/run instances for exp and drops was great. And now its a great balance of solo and group play with the new dugeon/group finder. It was a means to and end. They have lots of endgame in place so it makes sence to be able to level faster to do that content. You also have to start over from scratch if you want to play a new class. Still another reason for fast leveling. In ffxi/v your work CARRIES OVER TO ALL YOUR OTHER CLASSES so it only helps to have at least something at cap.

I've played other MMOs and ...well...there really is very little to do at low levels. There may not be much to do at the higher levels but its more then at the start. And every one of those MMOs have adjusted how you grind. I really dont think now a days spending 12 months to get to a level cap is going to work. maybe 7 years ago when I was new to MMOs but not today.

One last thing. Yes there are alot of people R50. There where alot of people who got to R50 before the change in SP. Now its harder to get to that point. Most people know past r20 you get hit hard on your SP. I dont know if these applies to all, but the few just under 50 people I know are getting like 70 sp a kill. And when you need something like 100k sp to rank up thats just not fun. Before you could get up to 500 a kill if you where lucky. Slow you say? which would you rather do? 70 sp a kill or up to 500? Yeah I used to be about the journey to cap too..... but there is nothing to see on this one
#29 Jan 04 2011 at 8:36 AM Rating: Good
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nonameoflevi wrote:

Well here is my opnion. When I first started playing ffxi in 2004 it was slow going and that was fine but keep in mind that was my first MMO ever. Now after getting to around level 60ish I started to hate the grind alot. I was a RDM so it was never a problem getting a party but I still hated it. Well low and behold I must not have been the only one since they changed the EXP curve. Also by the time, there where alot of things I could not do or would be able to get help doing unless I was higher ( I really wanted to play SMN with avatars ready to go ).

Having a job at cap makes everything else jsut a bit more easier. If you had a job in ffxi at cap, you didnt need to redo genkai, you prolly had some gear, skills leveled up, teleports/outpost done, etc. Even if there is no endgame it still makes things eaiser.

I know people here hate wow, but I though their system of leveing up was jsut fine. I tried to just grind mobs al la ffxi and it doesnt work. the whole do a quest get exp/run instances for exp and drops was great. And now its a great balance of solo and group play with the new dugeon/group finder. It was a means to and end. They have lots of endgame in place so it makes sence to be able to level faster to do that content. You also have to start over from scratch if you want to play a new class. Still another reason for fast leveling. In ffxi/v your work CARRIES OVER TO ALL YOUR OTHER CLASSES so it only helps to have at least something at cap.

I've played other MMOs and ...well...there really is very little to do at low levels. There may not be much to do at the higher levels but its more then at the start. And every one of those MMOs have adjusted how you grind. I really dont think now a days spending 12 months to get to a level cap is going to work. maybe 7 years ago when I was new to MMOs but not today.

One last thing. Yes there are alot of people R50. There where alot of people who got to R50 before the change in SP. Now its harder to get to that point. Most people know past r20 you get hit hard on your SP. I dont know if these applies to all, but the few just under 50 people I know are getting like 70 sp a kill. And when you need something like 100k sp to rank up thats just not fun. Before you could get up to 500 a kill if you where lucky. Slow you say? which would you rather do? 70 sp a kill or up to 500? Yeah I used to be about the journey to cap too..... but there is nothing to see on this one


Without dissecring your post I think your point is enforcing the OP, people knew from the begining that there was no content but still, for leet sake, they raced to the cap.

I agree that the game needs more content but to be honest I think this should be more spread over ranks 25-40. People at 50 already got some NMS to contend with and it's their own "fault" they got there too fast anyway!
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#30 Jan 04 2011 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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If you're lvling slow, you're doing it wrong. I'm gaining about a rank every two days at this point. I play about 4 to 8 hours per day. Do leves and behests in groups, linking leves as often as possible, on the highest difficulty you can. When you run out of leves yourself, offer assistance to other players that still have leves.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:01am by Jefro420
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#31 Jan 04 2011 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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nonameoflevi wrote:

Well here is my opnion. When I first started playing ffxi in 2004 it was slow going and that was fine but keep in mind that was my first MMO ever. Now after getting to around level 60ish I started to hate the grind alot. I was a RDM so it was never a problem getting a party but I still hated it. Well low and behold I must not have been the only one since they changed the EXP curve. Also by the time, there where alot of things I could not do or would be able to get help doing unless I was higher ( I really wanted to play SMN with avatars ready to go ).

I think the level curve in FFXI was pretty much perfect by the time CoP was completed. A good group would let you level up at a pace that'd keep things interesting enough to not discourage you yet not so fast as to make leveling feel like an afterthought. The constant need for tight team work combined with the relaxing camp based grinding made the gameplay feel surprisingly engaging, yet not very fatiguing the way repeatedly running an instance in WoW does.

Quote:

I know people here hate wow, but I though their system of leveing up was jsut fine. I tried to just grind mobs al la ffxi and it doesnt work. the whole do a quest get exp/run instances for exp and drops was great. And now its a great balance of solo and group play with the new dugeon/group finder. It was a means to and end.

Personally, while I more or less enjoyed the instances in WoW, I could not stand the quest grind. I actually halted regular leveling completely when my character reached L55 (this was back in vanilla) because questing made me feel nauseous and I got the last few levels purely from instance runs for gear. Needless to say, I did not enjoy the additional level grinding introduced in TBC as it meant soloing more repetitive and trivially easy quests with very little gameplay value. While WoW leveling had more variation than FFXI leveling, the solo aspects really got to me as I can't stand playing MMOs alone for very long. That's just not what these games excel at and I think it's a pity how solocentric FFXIV is right now. Unless you're exploiting leve links, soloing is your best bet and the gameplay is horrendous.

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#33 Jan 04 2011 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Don't jump to the conclusion that it's easy to get to 50 because you see some forum sigs with 50's. The FFXIV player base has a hardcore dedicated contingent that logs some serious playtime. I've played a lot of MMO's haven't seen such fanatical dedication since the original EQ days. It doesn't matter how slow leveling is or how broken certain gameplay elements are; if you are logging 8+ hours per day into XIV, you are going to cap some jobs.

EDIT: this post was made while typing out my response...

Quote:
If you're lvling slow, you're doing it wrong. I'm gaining about a rank every two days at this point. I play about 4 to 8 hours per day. Do leves and behests in groups, linking leves as often as possible, on the highest difficulty you can. When you run out of leves yourself, offer assistance to other players that still have leves.


If you have 4-8 hours per day to play FFXIV, you too can level "fast"!

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:33am by thejones
#34 Jan 04 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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thejones wrote:
Don't jump to the conclusion that it's easy to get to 50 because you see some forum sigs with 50's. The FFXIV player base has a hardcore dedicated contingent that logs some serious playtime. I've played a lot of MMO's haven't seen such fanatical dedication since the original EQ days. It doesn't matter how slow leveling is or how broken certain gameplay elements are; if you are logging 8+ hours per day into XIV, you are going to cap some jobs.

EDIT: this post was made while typing out my response...

Quote:
If you're lvling slow, you're doing it wrong. I'm gaining about a rank every two days at this point. I play about 4 to 8 hours per day. Do leves and behests in groups, linking leves as often as possible, on the highest difficulty you can. When you run out of leves yourself, offer assistance to other players that still have leves.


If you have 4-8 hours per day to play FFXIV, you too can level "fast"!

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:33am by thejones

effort in = ranks out :P funny how that works. I actually thought my 4 to 8 hours was modest though considering I know a few folks playing 12+ hours a day it seems. People can do that when the economy is sh*t and don't have jobs.

I'm honestly not sure I'd want to gain ranks much easier than that, right now I'm excited every time I rank up, it feels like I accomplish something somewhat meaningful. I don't want that taken away by making ranks too easy to get. I play games for a challenge, and enjoy a good grind.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:56am by Jefro420
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#35 Jan 04 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I actually thought my 4 to 8 hours was modest though considering I know a few folks playing 12+ hours a day it seems. People can do that when the economy is sh*t and don't have jobs.


Stalin and Mao really aren't that bad when compared to Hitler...it's all relative.

A disturbing number of my shellmates fall into that 12+ hours a day category as well. I took a vacation day last week and was shocked to see how many people were online at 11AM EST on a weekday afternoon. I was talking to shellmates expecting that others were on vacation, on semester break from university, or taking a sick day, etc., but I quickly learned the sad truth that this was actually just an average weekday for them, as most of them unfortunately adhere to the MMO cliche of "unemployed and living in parents basement".

I'm not a job search expert, but I'd imagine that playing FFXIV for 12+ hours day is adversely affecting their employment prospects. Then again, I'm not expert.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 11:18am by thejones
#36 Jan 04 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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thejones wrote:
Quote:
I actually thought my 4 to 8 hours was modest though considering I know a few folks playing 12+ hours a day it seems. People can do that when the economy is sh*t and don't have jobs.


Stalin and Mao really aren't that bad when compared to Hitler...it's all relative.

A disturbing number of my shellmates fall into that 12+ hours a day category as well. I took a vacation day last week and was shocked to see how many people were online at 11AM EST on a weekday afternoon. I was talking to shellmates expecting that others were on vacation, on semester break from university, or taking a sick day, etc., but I quickly learned the sad truth that this was actually just an average weekday for them, as most of them unfortunately adhere to the MMO cliche of "unemployed and living in parents basement".

I'm not a job search expert, but I'd imagine that playing FFXIV for 12+ hours day is adversely affecting their employment prospects. Then again, I'm not expert.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 11:18am by thejones

Not when you your line of work is IT and the primary way of finding a job is on the internet. Which is the case with my group of friends.

But I think the Stalin/Mao/Hitler comment is a little misplaced. I'm thoroughly enjoying my time in game, you seem to be implying that the game is painful at best. If it's that bad why subject yourself to it? I certainly wouldn't torture myself in the name of gaining ranks in a game which I don't enjoy.
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#37 Jan 04 2011 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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seanjohn112 wrote:
I wanna say about 40 R50 on each server and not counting physical, you will have to play 10hrs everyday + 26 hrs on weekends to reach max on a main class and thats about 1100Hrs+ in 3 months and most people dont have that kind of time.


Im 50 and i dont play no where near that. so dont come trolling
#38 Jan 04 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Default
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I think its funny that during beta, there was so much emphasis on players being complete players, and leveling everything. Then the game comes out with a slow curve and nothing else to do, and people defend it by screaming why the rush.
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#39 Jan 04 2011 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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I've been squarely planted in the "why the rush camp" while grinding as often as possible.
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#40 Jan 04 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
'm not a job search expert, but I'd imagine that playing FFXIV for 12+ hours day is adversely affecting their employment prospects.


This.
#41 Jan 04 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
widnes wrote:
seanjohn112 wrote:
I wanna say about 40 R50 on each server and not counting physical, you will have to play 10hrs everyday + 26 hrs on weekends to reach max on a main class and thats about 1100Hrs+ in 3 months and most people dont have that kind of time.


Im 50 and i dont play no where near that. so dont come trolling


Agree with this guy. It only took 250 some hours of actual combat to reach 50, maybe a lot less. I didn't bother keeping track of time because I had fun playing with friends.
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#42 Jan 04 2011 at 12:29 PM Rating: Default
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Hugus wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.


See, here's my issue: there's no content. The few there is its for rank 50s. In XI you had a bunch of things to keep you entertained until you hit 75. But on XIV you're pretty much negligible if you aren't 50.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 8:01am by MajidahSihaam


And what content was that except RoZ and CoP which werent there at launch, not that much and what there was is comparable to what FFXIV does have!


Are you kidding me? Sub job quest, advanced jobs quests, QUESTS in general, all the nation missions, hunting for RSE? Seriously, what the ****.
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#43 Jan 04 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
'm not a job search expert, but I'd imagine that playing FFXIV for 12+ hours day is adversely affecting their employment prospects.


This.

Perhaps, but they are adults and who am I to tell them how to live their lives?
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#44 Jan 04 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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widnes wrote:
seanjohn112 wrote:
I wanna say about 40 R50 on each server and not counting physical, you will have to play 10hrs everyday + 26 hrs on weekends to reach max on a main class and thats about 1100Hrs+ in 3 months and most people dont have that kind of time.


Im 50 and i dont play no where near that. so dont come trolling


His math was an exaggeration, but look at what's in your sig.

CON 50 1,782,150 SP. WVR 30 372,150 SP. GLA 28 304,150 SP. TNR 21 127,150 SP. THM 20 111,150.

A total of 2,696,750 SP logged on those classes. Assuming you manage to pull in an average of 10,000 SP per hour that's 270 hours grinding alone. Not factoring in travel, shopping, socializing and other downtime. With the game just shy of it's three month mark, it would take someone doing nothing but grinding 24 hours a day for 12 days to replicate the time you've logged.

For a more reasonable figure; to attain only rank 50 on one class in 90 days a player would have to grind at 10k per hour for two hours everyday. At a rate of about 5k per hour, four hours every day. Again, this doesn't include travel and other various downtimes. I'd say 5k per hour is the "easy mode" version of it if a player only mixes behest and open world grinding.

So SE gave us a game where it'd take a player three months of dedicated leveling to attain rank 50 and at the end of those three months gave us a handful of rank 50 NMs making it seem all is according to plan. But I think where most folks get frustrated is that it's tough to play this game as one class. There's various levels of fatigue. There's repairs. Theres the need to be somewhat self-sufficient in the field with your weapon and to have reasonably up-to-date gear.

For a well-rounded character like the one I quoted above it takes 12 full days out of 90 to not be gimp. I know it's an MMO and needs to have time sinks. But I don't think people would complain so bad if there was ANYTHING to do other than the arduous task of grinding for hours a day for no reason. All anyone wants is purpose.

I think saying rank 50 is "common" is a matter of perspective, but as someone said, FF has always had a die hard following. In XI, players would stop the rest of their lives to be first to cap when new jobs were released. They did that in a matter of days. I think it speaks volumes about that mountain to be climbed that it took months for rank 50 to be "common," even if only among the hardcore fans.
#45 Jan 04 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Jefro420 wrote:
I've been squarely planted in the "why the rush camp" while grinding as often as possible.


I feel the same way.
I don't feel that all the interesting stuff in XI is at the endgame. Because I'm not 75 nor 90 and I've enjoyed the challenging and varied quests and story missions really much.

Some of you seem to talk like the grind is like standing in line to see the main event and all content should be designed for endgame. Isn't that a bit silly?

Is that the way "new game design" works and something people want because they "don't put up with the way things used to work in XI".

I'm not saying I'd want XIV to be XI because we already have that. I just hope SE would take some of the things that are so enjoyable in XI and adapt those ideas in a new way to XIV. They've re-invented experience point system for almost every FF-game in a different way but still building up on what works.

I also don't think the comment saying that if a game like XI was made today people wouldn't play it, has any weight.

You know there are probably a lot more players running around in Vana'diel than in Eorzea as I'm writing this. To each their own I guess.

I'm going to go and "put up" with some old skool questing. Because I want to. =)

I'm sure quests will eventually come to XIV too and when that day comes I'll be logging in embarrassing amount of playtime to play them with my (probably) underpowered marauder.
#46 Jan 04 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Hugus wrote:
And what content was that except RoZ and CoP which werent there at launch, not that much and what there was is comparable to what FFXIV does have!


Are you kidding me? Sub job quest, advanced jobs quests, QUESTS in general, all the nation missions, hunting for RSE? Seriously, what the @#%^.

You're speaking from RoZ position, since it shipped with the NA version of the game. Vanilla FFXI had a shadow of that stuff. ****, the main story quest ended at Shadow Lord, which could be reached in 2 months with a static party. There were no HNM's to speak of and no real endgame aside from what you got pre-SL, which includes RSE and AF. All the endgame stuff barely showed up in RoZ. As much as I hate to say it, XIV does have more actual content. That said, XI's content was a lot more fulfilling, which is why it seems like it had more.

As for my position on this game, I'm also in the "why the rush" club. I find grinding a single class to r50 without the helpful spells of the other classes to be nothing short of torture, so I'm leveling my CON, THM, and LNC to r20 for Cure II, Sacrifice II, Siphon MP, and Feint before I start leveling my ARC again. I'll probably also get my CRP and TAN to r30 before ranking my ARC, and ARC is my main class. Gonna take a while since I only play 2-4 hours per day, but ehh... I'm done playing 12-14 hour days like I did in XI just so I can say I'm the highest level on the server, with nothing to do after I get there.

To be perfectly honest, the main problem I have with XIV is that the zones just aren't anywhere near as interesting as XI's. I'd say XI had a harder grind than XIV does, but XI had a lot to do with exploration considering the glaring differences of the zones. I mean, stepping out of San d'Oria's forests into the vast fields of La Theine Plateau, and then stepping out of there into Valkurm Dunes for the first time. Rolanberry Heights, Boyahda, Yhoator, Ifrit's Cauldron... each of these places had unique looks to them. Every new zone felt like a new place, so the grinding was offset by exploration. XIV's copy pasta doesn't have this feeling at all.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 2:04pm by SoumaKyou
#47 Jan 04 2011 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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Sephrick wrote:
widnes wrote:
seanjohn112 wrote:
I wanna say about 40 R50 on each server and not counting physical, you will have to play 10hrs everyday + 26 hrs on weekends to reach max on a main class and thats about 1100Hrs+ in 3 months and most people dont have that kind of time.


Im 50 and i dont play no where near that. so dont come trolling


His math was an exaggeration, but look at what's in your sig.

CON 50 1,782,150 SP. WVR 30 372,150 SP. GLA 28 304,150 SP. TNR 21 127,150 SP. THM 20 111,150.

A total of 2,696,750 SP logged on those classes. Assuming you manage to pull in an average of 10,000 SP per hour that's 270 hours grinding alone. Not factoring in travel, shopping, socializing and other downtime. With the game just shy of it's three month mark, it would take someone doing nothing but grinding 24 hours a day for 12 days to replicate the time you've logged.

For a more reasonable figure; to attain only rank 50 on one class in 90 days a player would have to grind at 10k per hour for two hours everyday. At a rate of about 5k per hour, four hours every day. Again, this doesn't include travel and other various downtimes. I'd say 5k per hour is the "easy mode" version of it if a player only mixes behest and open world grinding.

So SE gave us a game where it'd take a player three months of dedicated leveling to attain rank 50 and at the end of those three months gave us a handful of rank 50 NMs making it seem all is according to plan. But I think where most folks get frustrated is that it's tough to play this game as one class. There's various levels of fatigue. There's repairs. Theres the need to be somewhat self-sufficient in the field with your weapon and to have reasonably up-to-date gear.

For a well-rounded character like the one I quoted above it takes 12 full days out of 90 to not be gimp. I know it's an MMO and needs to have time sinks. But I don't think people would complain so bad if there was ANYTHING to do other than the arduous task of grinding for hours a day for no reason. All anyone wants is purpose.

I think saying rank 50 is "common" is a matter of perspective, but as someone said, FF has always had a die hard following. In XI, players would stop the rest of their lives to be first to cap when new jobs were released. They did that in a matter of days. I think it speaks volumes about that mountain to be climbed that it took months for rank 50 to be "common," even if only among the hardcore fans.



is that all ive grinded >.<. But yea i know i have put alot of time in, But thats because i love this game :P

100th post

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 2:12pm by widnes
#48 Jan 04 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
is that all ive grinded >.<. But yea i know i have put alot of time in, But thats because i love this game :P


Question. has having a R50 helped you in doing other classes? I mean that is what this game is about right now is it not?

If so I say rush to 50 to make it bareable, if not. pfft...
#49 Jan 04 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Hitting 50 on all jobs in my eyes would be too much. But leveling different jobs certainly helps.

For example. Im leveling GLD now. I will use Defender from MRD, Taunt and Second wind from PUG, Cure 2, shockspikes and Protect 2 from CON, And i will also use Siphon MP from THM (when i solo). So different jobs certainly help but its only how far you wish to take it. I only took CON to 50 so i could get any End game content which comes out e.g. NM's

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 2:28pm by widnes
#50 Jan 04 2011 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Has hitting rank 50 helped with other classes? Yes i would have to say it has. you can farm for crafting mats much faster and easier which my group does for other crafters in our group. You can avoid most enemy aggro when moving from location to location for grinding. And with a high lvl you can kill enemies with higher than your rank more easily. I also reached cap in under 3 months just having fun with my group.
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#51 Jan 04 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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The majority of people who are 50 abused the huge amounts of SP gain you got before the November update...

Now, it's much harder and takes much more time. A good rank up around 40+ takes 7-8 hours.
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