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Just HOW is lvling slow if so many people are 50?!Follow

#52 Jan 04 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Crevox wrote:
A good rank up around 40+ takes 7-8 hours.

Not if you're leve linking the best leves.
#53 Jan 04 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Default
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CRACK!
#54 Jan 04 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
seiferdincht wrote:
I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.


I honestly don't think the leveling is too slow, taken independently. The problem is that there is no content independent of your rank. You have to get a higher rank to get more content. And, no, I'm not counting leves as content. I'm counting the nation and class quests. So, while you're absolutely correct that XIV leveling is leaps and bounds faster than in XI, the problem is that there was at least some content you could do in the form of little quests, etc., in XI regardless of level. Therefore, the leveling seems slower and more boring than in XI when in fact XI was a lot more grinding, and mindless grinding for most jobs, than XIV.

This is coming from someone who's highest ranks are 21MRD, 17LEA, 16CON, and 15GLD. I'd be happy with that, if I had some content to play.

Edit: I was going to include links to respective lists of quests/missions to compare for FFXI and FFXIV for those who are saying that XIV has just as much content at this point as XI did at NA launch. The problem is that I don't know which quests were added later and which were there at the start. The point though is that I don't remember a time in FFXI that I couldn't walk around San d'Oria and talk to the many, many NPCs and get random dialogue and quests. Many of those I probably couldn't do until I had a higher level. But at least I could start them. At least there was content there.

This does not take into account, though, that there were 10-11 starter nation quests that you could do by level 20 in FFXI (Link to FFXI starter nation missions), while there are only five in XIV (link to Ul'dah storyline quests in FFXIV). One of those for Ul'dah is actually the opening mission, which I wouldn't count. And in FFXI, if you could make it to the other starter cities, you could do their quests also. You can't in FFXIV, even though we can all easily reach all three cities from the start.

Regardless of whether the content was there at the start of XI or not, SE was counting on moving many or eventually all of their FFXI players to FFXIV. They made a mistake if they thought that they could do that with the very small amount of content that currently exists in FFXIV. Fairness may dictate that we not compare the current state of FFXI to the launch of FFXIV. However, the players' entertainment value dictates otherwise.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 4:58pm by LuthienOfSeraph
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#55 Jan 04 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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You can't discount leves as not being content, they are content like it or not. They may not have the variety that we would like to see until the later ranks, but that doesn't mean they are not content. r40 leves even have what I would call "boss battles", you can't tell me a boss battle isn't content.
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#56 Jan 04 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
Jefro420 wrote:
You can't discount leves as not being content, they are content like it or not. They may not have the variety that we would like to see until the later ranks, but that doesn't mean they are not content. r40 leves even have what I would call "boss battles", you can't tell me a boss battle isn't content.
It's debatable, I'll give you that. The "story" part of a levequest doesn't ever touch your chat log, so I still don't consider it content. Have you read all of them? Did you read them when you first undertook that leve? I did during beta, mostly to check for errors. They're all extremely similar from the little I read. The "content" I'm talking about has a real story, not a task to be completed that you don't even have to read the story to do.

As my edit of my previous post points out, just comparing XI starter nation missions to XIV storyline quests shows the difference in content. Right now, Eorzea doesn't have a story it seems to be telling me. Vana'diel always seemed to have a story that I wanted to know the ending of. I honestly hope that changes soon for Eorzea, and I'm sure it will at some point. But the lack of it at this point makes leveling feel slow.
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lolgaxe+1 wrote:
I've always been of the opinion that Warrior was the Swiss Army Knife of Vana'diel.
#57 Jan 04 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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LuthienOfSeraph wrote:
Edit: I was going to include links to respective lists of quests/missions to compare for FFXI and FFXIV for those who are saying that XIV has just as much content at this point as XI did at NA launch. The problem is that I don't know which quests were added later and which were there at the start. The point though is that I don't remember a time in FFXI that I couldn't walk around San d'Oria and talk to the many, many NPCs and get random dialogue and quests. Many of those I probably couldn't do until I had a higher level. But at least I could start them. At least there was content there.

There were only a handful of quests worth doing in XI on release. RSE quests, AF quests, and Mission quests. That's it. Genkai quests came much later. The rest of the game was built around looking for a party to chain mobs with. Unless you're trying to tell me that you spent most of your time in XI questing rather than camping a spot with several other parties grinding away, at which point I'll call you on your BS. The Mission, RSE, and AF quests were divided by level ranges, and the only time my static would stop grinding would be when we'd hit those level ranges to continue on with that particular quest line. XIV's story arc certainly isn't anywhere near as complex, but there definitely are more quests in XIV than in XI.

LuthienOfSeraph wrote:
The "content" I'm talking about has a real story, not a task to be completed that you don't even have to read the story to do.

By that logic, WoW has no "content" because I never read the stories to the quests it gives me and I do them just fine.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 5:17pm by SoumaKyou
#58 Jan 04 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Crevox wrote:
The majority of people who are 50 abused the huge amounts of SP gain you got before the November update...

Now, it's much harder and takes much more time. A good rank up around 40+ takes 7-8 hours.


actually i know people on my server who have hit 50 in a month and a half. almost half the time it took me to hit 50 since the november patch. Pre patch most of us were not able to get that much sp consistently even in a at rank large group. Only DOM classes were able to really abuse the SP gains and consistently get 500sp a kill. You must not killing the right things and taking advantage of behests and levee in a party if you think that it takes longer to rank up. I feel that it is about the same you just have to change your approach.
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#59 Jan 04 2011 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
You can't discount leves as not being content, they are content like it or not. They may not have the variety that we would like to see until the later ranks, but that doesn't mean they are not content. r40 leves even have what I would call "boss battles", you can't tell me a boss battle isn't content.


If we were playing XI would you call the Empress Band "content"?

Granted, it fits the literal definition because it's something contained in the game, but it'll hardly get the masses to sign up.

Anyway, my point is that that's all leves are. A 36-hour exp bonus with a paragraph that the initiating player can read.

This goes back to the other thread, we shouldn't have to play for 100 hours to get a glimpse of the "content." You keep bringing up R40 leves like they're the answer to everyone's concerns.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 7:09pm by Sephrick
#60 Jan 04 2011 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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daour wrote:


when they said they are going to introduce FFXIV to the market, they said its for casual gamers, the exact words was (taking casual gamers as our main focus).

this means all hardcore gamers should stay playing FFXI and jump in FFXIV from time to time just to do some progress, but for the people that have 2 hours to play a day, FFXIV is for you.

i know how FFXI feels, i played for 6 years, loved it, but don't have time to play for 9+ hours a day now, so i left.
now SE know that allot of people left just because they have the same issue that i have, and they want us back, so they came up with FFXIV, but its not working, so they have to fix it.



I find it hilarious to hear someone who is within spitting distance of cap already whine about this game not being "casual" enough. Christ man, I play pretty often and my highest combat job is 25! I can't believe you're whining about this game not being "casual."

Also casual does not mean "over quickly" it means you can log in for 2 hours and get something done. AND YOU CAN.
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#61 Jan 04 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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First, you have to take into account that 50 is almost certainly not going to be endgame. They are going to raise the cap. The real endgame will likely take much longer to reach. You also have to realize that there is so little content in the game at the moment that all people can do is grind. If you played FFXI, think back to all the things that interrupted your race to 75, then suppose those obstacles weren't there to impede you. There are no long quests, no real must get items or skills to interrupt the grind, no Genkai quests, barely any story quests, not many zones. All there is is grinding. Also consider that the majority of the people that are still playing this game are those who are dedicated. There are not very many casuals. Those who do play are dedicated enough to form static parties if they are DoW or DoM, and if they are DoL or DoH they just craft or gather constantly. Those that complain about lvling being slow are usually DoW or DoM, and are usually rank 30+. Once you get to this rank, grinding is extremely tedious and unfulfilling with relatively little reward. It flat out sucks. It is way, way worse than FFXI. It wasn't like this before the November patch. And yes, it is slow. If you don't have a fighting class above 30, you will not be able to understand. And your claim that there are many people at lvl 50 is not true. Most of those who are rank 50 are crafters that grind away all day long.
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#62 Jan 04 2011 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If we were playing XI would you call the Empress Band "content"?


It sure seemed like exciting (albeit painful) content when someone pulled the emperor to your level 13 party by mistake Smiley: glare

ooops my mistake I saw Empress Band and thought Empress Pin my apologies lol Smiley: boozing






Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:09pm by Libtech
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#63 Jan 04 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:

Anyway, my point is that that's all leves are. A 36-hour exp bonus with a paragraph that the initiating player can read.


What are you taking about? "that's all that quests are, a mini exp trip players can take with an initiating paragraph" quit taking out your *** because I can say that for nearly everything in every other MMO out there. I honestly got sick of leves but by the time I hit rank 20, rank 30 leves they got a lot more interesting...faction leves are on a whole other level and in their case there is NPC interaction if that's what you care about so much. I think the largest problem is that this game wants you to level horizontally yet it gives you enough leves, especially in the wee teen region, to only last you one round trip cuz after that they get repetitive, so the only real problem here is variety and numbers and has nothing to do with leves themselves. I think people are blaming lack of game content on "stupid leves" because its the easiest thing to blame right now but leves actually get better and better as you get higher in rank.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:30pm by SolidMack
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#64 Jan 04 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Default
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As much as us Final Fantasy players hate to admit it, WoW is the biggest and most popular MMO and therefore the standard. In WoW you can get to cap in ONE day, therefore, compared to that FFXIV is slow.
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#65 Jan 04 2011 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
daour wrote:


when they said they are going to introduce FFXIV to the market, they said its for casual gamers, the exact words was (taking casual gamers as our main focus).

this means all hardcore gamers should stay playing FFXI and jump in FFXIV from time to time just to do some progress, but for the people that have 2 hours to play a day, FFXIV is for you.

i know how FFXI feels, i played for 6 years, loved it, but don't have time to play for 9+ hours a day now, so i left.
now SE know that allot of people left just because they have the same issue that i have, and they want us back, so they came up with FFXIV, but its not working, so they have to fix it.



I find it hilarious to hear someone who is within spitting distance of cap already whine about this game not being "casual" enough. Christ man, I play pretty often and my highest combat job is 25! I can't believe you're whining about this game not being "casual."

Also casual does not mean "over quickly" it means you can log in for 2 hours and get something done. AND YOU CAN.



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#66 Jan 04 2011 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
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seiferdincht wrote:
Khornette wrote:
If you're talking about DoW/DoM, the SP rate has been nerfed big time. Even if you abuse the Leve link, you barely gain SP at the optimal rate as before. All the other time though, the SP rate is lowered significantly. Pre-nerf, you can get from 15k-25k SP/hr depends on your luck/grouping/class. After the nerf, abusing the leve link (by abuse, I meant you intentionally fail "good" leve to keep it for next cycle), you get 20k SP/hr for like an hour every 36 hours. Normal grind/leve/behest give about 10k-15k SP/hr.

If you're talking about crafting, Goldsmith and Alchemist received a big nerf in term of recipes to grind. GLD is forced to grind on recipe ten times more expensive and harder to get for the same SP rate as before. If you think it is so funny, try to buy Gold Sand/Ore for Electrum Ring. From r43 to r50 you will waste about 48,645,000 to 77,832,000 gil based on the market rate, and provide that there are people selling. Before the Nov patch, this is closer to 4,324,000 gil (silver needle).

If you don't think that's slow, I don't know what is.


She/he said while the info box shows your character is 50 and other job is 40 while some others are 30+ few months after release date.

If what you're saying is true then I should reach the cap much much slower. Thank god.


Because we know you like it slow, sure SE did grant you the wish with Nov patch. To answer your question, yes it is slow after the Nov Patch, unless you think that everyone is already in the top ten GLD on Gysahl then it is not slow, on the most crowded server with no less than 20,000 character head counts >_> The last time I checked, there were only *surprise* 10 people on the top 10. And it's been hellish, just try to grind your way up would you? Instead of randomly coming here and tell the people who are making their way up that it's so easy, so easy you wouldn't bother to do.

If that doesn't convince you, I will tell you this: The second ALC on Gysahl to hit r50 did it 1 months and 2 weeks later than the first ALC to hit r50. That's the impact of Nov patch. 1.5 months is a looooooong distance thanks to one patch.

And for the people rated me down, not liking the truth number so much? Instead of randomly saying it's slow I've presented you with figures to show it.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:56pm by Khornette
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#67cornyboob, Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 9:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) 2-3 days a rank if your nota lazy player.
#68 Jan 04 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't seen that there are a lot of people at rank 50. Physical level 50, sure. That's easy thanks to the ***-backwards progression.

My problem with ranking up in XIV is not necessarily that it's slow, but that it's slow AND boring. You spend too much time killing the same weak little ***** that require little strategy and mostly repetitious strategy. Repetition= mundane= boring.
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#69namasy, Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 10:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) thanx god for nov patch, got r50 conj and now working on thm. if i still get random sp i would never reach r50 that fast and get the chance to rankin up my thm, sorry no more lazy sp for lazy ppl.
#70 Jan 04 2011 at 11:31 PM Rating: Default
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I'm still very new to XIV but it seems to me that leveling is alway is slow if you solo. The very few parties I've taken part in have been great.
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#71 Jan 04 2011 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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I am not saying this is right and I hate that it is this way but..... leves and behest at every reset even without purposefully failing is the way to go. My staic (loosely alot come and go as they can) runs every night at 8 we get around 40k in 3 hours with 12ish people. I know there are better ways to "work" the system by stacking and failing leeves but we choose to do it the right way. Regardless this means even at 39 I have been getting about 1 1/2 levels every 2 days in 6 hours. While it seems slower simply because it is mind numbingly boring to do the same leves over and over and over ad nauseum. In reality progression is far faster than xi was. I want party play and solo play as a realistic option to leve grinding I realize you can get close to the same amount under ideal conditions, but at least on my server those rarely exist, every camp but the most inaccessible are taken. I would suggest to all the people in here Make the most of the system as it is for now, and pray for more exciting changes in the future.
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#72 Jan 05 2011 at 12:04 AM Rating: Default
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LuthienOfSeraph wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.


I honestly don't think the leveling is too slow, taken independently. The problem is that there is no content independent of your rank. You have to get a higher rank to get more content. And, no, I'm not counting leves as content. I'm counting the nation and class quests. So, while you're absolutely correct that XIV leveling is leaps and bounds faster than in XI, the problem is that there was at least some content you could do in the form of little quests, etc., in XI regardless of level. Therefore, the leveling seems slower and more boring than in XI when in fact XI was a lot more grinding, and mindless grinding for most jobs, than XIV.

This is coming from someone who's highest ranks are 21MRD, 17LEA, 16CON, and 15GLD. I'd be happy with that, if I had some content to play.

Edit: I was going to include links to respective lists of quests/missions to compare for FFXI and FFXIV for those who are saying that XIV has just as much content at this point as XI did at NA launch. The problem is that I don't know which quests were added later and which were there at the start. The point though is that I don't remember a time in FFXI that I couldn't walk around San d'Oria and talk to the many, many NPCs and get random dialogue and quests. Many of those I probably couldn't do until I had a higher level. But at least I could start them. At least there was content there.

This does not take into account, though, that there were 10-11 starter nation quests that you could do by level 20 in FFXI (Link to FFXI starter nation missions), while there are only five in XIV (link to Ul'dah storyline quests in FFXIV). One of those for Ul'dah is actually the opening mission, which I wouldn't count. And in FFXI, if you could make it to the other starter cities, you could do their quests also. You can't in FFXIV, even though we can all easily reach all three cities from the start.

Regardless of whether the content was there at the start of XI or not, SE was counting on moving many or eventually all of their FFXI players to FFXIV. They made a mistake if they thought that they could do that with the very small amount of content that currently exists in FFXIV. Fairness may dictate that we not compare the current state of FFXI to the launch of FFXIV. However, the players' entertainment value dictates otherwise.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 4:58pm by LuthienOfSeraph


I think you make some excellent points here.

Everyone arguing over the leves being content or not should look at your links for story missions in XI and in XIV.

That difference is so incredible it makes the whole leve-debate utterly irrelevant.

There are some of npc-quest series' in XI that are longer than Ul'dah storyline o_O()
#73 Jan 05 2011 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
There are some of npc-quest series' in XI that are longer than Ul'dah storyline o_O()


Who the **** cares about this, THIS is completely irrelevant in this case, its just how the story was laid out in which they made it short starting out for each city state so people don't miss out on much (i.e., they merged the stories faster than they did in XI) big deal.
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#74 Jan 05 2011 at 1:39 AM Rating: Default
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seiferdincht wrote:
I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.


Umm... because a lot of them were beta testers and they transferred their characters over from beta... yea...
#75 Jan 05 2011 at 2:13 AM Rating: Good
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Pherocious wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.


Umm... because a lot of them were beta testers and they transferred their characters over from beta... yea...


I was also one of them but transferring anything except your looks and name was not possible for anyone.
#76 Jan 05 2011 at 2:18 AM Rating: Decent
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SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
There are some of npc-quest series' in XI that are longer than Ul'dah storyline o_O()


Who the **** cares about this, THIS is completely irrelevant in this case, its just how the story was laid out in which they made it short starting out for each city state so people don't miss out on much (i.e., they merged the stories faster than they did in XI) big deal.



Call me slow but it took me along time to understand what you mean by that =D

Anyway you do know that it's possible to do ALL of those missions with a single character in XI? So basically it means at release there was over 3 times more storyline missions.
Since people brought up the fact that the grind feels slow because there's nothing else to do I thought it was relevant.

I guess the only answer for players feeling that way is to wait until that kind of content arrives.

(And yes we can even call the bridge in Limsa "content" because it's within the game, that's just semantics to me.)
#77 Jan 05 2011 at 2:21 AM Rating: Default
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seiferdincht wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
There are some of npc-quest series' in XI that are longer than Ul'dah storyline o_O()


Who the **** cares about this, THIS is completely irrelevant in this case, its just how the story was laid out in which they made it short starting out for each city state so people don't miss out on much (i.e., they merged the stories faster than they did in XI) big deal.



Call me slow but it took me along time to understand what you mean by that =D

Anyway you do know that it's possible to do ALL of those missions with a single character in XI? So basically it means at release there was over 3 times more storyline missions.
Since people brought up the fact that the grind feels slow because there's nothing else to do I thought it was relevant.

I guess the only answer for players feeling that way is to wait until that kind of content arrives.

(And yes we can even call the bridge in Limsa "content" because it's within the game, that's just semantics to me.)


Yea I know in XI you could do this and that but this isn't XI in this case. Whatever man, I no longer care lol...I'm waiting on this NGE because I think it'll give the game new life. And I honestly hope Tanaka never gets the helm of another game again, although that's selfish on my part but this game made me completely dislike the guy.
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#79 Jan 05 2011 at 4:49 AM Rating: Good
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#80 Jan 05 2011 at 4:52 AM Rating: Good
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seiferdincht wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
There are some of npc-quest series' in XI that are longer than Ul'dah storyline o_O()


Who the **** cares about this, THIS is completely irrelevant in this case, its just how the story was laid out in which they made it short starting out for each city state so people don't miss out on much (i.e., they merged the stories faster than they did in XI) big deal.



Call me slow but it took me along time to understand what you mean by that =D

Anyway you do know that it's possible to do ALL of those missions with a single character in XI? So basically it means at release there was over 3 times more storyline missions.
Since people brought up the fact that the grind feels slow because there's nothing else to do I thought it was relevant.

I guess the only answer for players feeling that way is to wait until that kind of content arrives.

(And yes we can even call the bridge in Limsa "content" because it's within the game, that's just semantics to me.)


I'm afraid I have to point out that this comparison is moot. FFXI at NA release was RoZ, while FFXIV was released in NA as is. Need I remind you that technically RoZ is an expansion? For example, Dragoon, Samurai, and Ninja were not available in Japan when FFXI was first released. Also, FFXI was released in JP on PlayStation 2 on May 16, 2002. The NA version was released March 23, 2004. Or if you want to compare the earliest release dates, that would still be May 16, 2002 vs October 28, 2003 (PC release in NA).

People are trying to compare a game released in NA after more than a year of development and the introduction of an expansion to a game released in NA/JP/EU at the same time.

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#81 Jan 05 2011 at 5:26 AM Rating: Decent
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seanjohn112 wrote:
widnes wrote:
Sephrick wrote:
widnes wrote:
seanjohn112 wrote:
I wanna say about 40 R50 on each server and not counting physical, you will have to play 10hrs everyday + 26 hrs on weekends to reach max on a main class and thats about 1100Hrs+ in 3 months and most people dont have that kind of time.


Im 50 and i dont play no where near that. so dont come trolling


His math was an exaggeration, but look at what's in your sig.

CON 50 1,782,150 SP. WVR 30 372,150 SP. GLA 28 304,150 SP. TNR 21 127,150 SP. THM 20 111,150.

A total of 2,696,750 SP logged on those classes. Assuming you manage to pull in an average of 10,000 SP per hour that's 270 hours grinding alone. Not factoring in travel, shopping, socializing and other downtime. With the game just shy of it's three month mark, it would take someone doing nothing but grinding 24 hours a day for 12 days to replicate the time you've logged.

For a more reasonable figure; to attain only rank 50 on one class in 90 days a player would have to grind at 10k per hour for two hours everyday. At a rate of about 5k per hour, four hours every day. Again, this doesn't include travel and other various downtimes. I'd say 5k per hour is the "easy mode" version of it if a player only mixes behest and open world grinding.

So SE gave us a game where it'd take a player three months of dedicated leveling to attain rank 50 and at the end of those three months gave us a handful of rank 50 NMs making it seem all is according to plan. But I think where most folks get frustrated is that it's tough to play this game as one class. There's various levels of fatigue. There's repairs. Theres the need to be somewhat self-sufficient in the field with your weapon and to have reasonably up-to-date gear.

For a well-rounded character like the one I quoted above it takes 12 full days out of 90 to not be gimp. I know it's an MMO and needs to have time sinks. But I don't think people would complain so bad if there was ANYTHING to do other than the arduous task of grinding for hours a day for no reason. All anyone wants is purpose.

I think saying rank 50 is "common" is a matter of perspective, but as someone said, FF has always had a die hard following. In XI, players would stop the rest of their lives to be first to cap when new jobs were released. They did that in a matter of days. I think it speaks volumes about that mountain to be climbed that it took months for rank 50 to be "common," even if only among the hardcore fans.



is that all ive grinded >.<. But yea i know i have put alot of time in, But thats because i love this game :P

100th post

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 2:12pm by widnes



Look man everyone knows you live at home in your moms basement and took you 1000+ hour to reach R50. Most people have jobs and families, and most players across the servers are about R35+. You dont have to lie to kick it.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 5:56am by seanjohn112


i have a job and i live with my girlfriend in my own house but yea thanks, Dont hold a grudge because you cant get to R20. Stop trolling im not wasting my time with you
#82 Jan 05 2011 at 5:41 AM Rating: Default
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lol at you guys still talking..... >.>
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#84 Jan 05 2011 at 6:23 AM Rating: Good
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Silvano13 wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
There are some of npc-quest series' in XI that are longer than Ul'dah storyline o_O()


Who the **** cares about this, THIS is completely irrelevant in this case, its just how the story was laid out in which they made it short starting out for each city state so people don't miss out on much (i.e., they merged the stories faster than they did in XI) big deal.



Call me slow but it took me along time to understand what you mean by that =D

Anyway you do know that it's possible to do ALL of those missions with a single character in XI? So basically it means at release there was over 3 times more storyline missions.
Since people brought up the fact that the grind feels slow because there's nothing else to do I thought it was relevant.

I guess the only answer for players feeling that way is to wait until that kind of content arrives.

(And yes we can even call the bridge in Limsa "content" because it's within the game, that's just semantics to me.)


I'm afraid I have to point out that this comparison is moot. FFXI at NA release was RoZ, while FFXIV was released in NA as is. Need I remind you that technically RoZ is an expansion? For example, Dragoon, Samurai, and Ninja were not available in Japan when FFXI was first released. Also, FFXI was released in JP on PlayStation 2 on May 16, 2002. The NA version was released March 23, 2004. Or if you want to compare the earliest release dates, that would still be May 16, 2002 vs October 28, 2003 (PC release in NA).

People are trying to compare a game released in NA after more than a year of development and the introduction of an expansion to a game released in NA/JP/EU at the same time.




The comparisons tip grossly to XI's favor even if you cut those mission lines out.
#85 Jan 05 2011 at 6:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I asked how the leveling is slower and I think I've gotten my answer for that by now.

Generally it seems that leveling is too monotonous for many because of the lack of content right now.

Only thing that still slightly concerns me is that based on this it seems like many are asking for the wrong things. Having the characters wouldn't probably make the process that much more fun than giving us a variety of ways to do so in form of new content.

Just a guess.
#86 Jan 05 2011 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I find it hilarious to hear someone who is within spitting distance of cap already whine about this game not being "casual" enough. Christ man, I play pretty often and my highest combat job is 25! I can't believe you're whining about this game not being "casual."


Rank 41 is hardly spitting distance away from 50. Somewhere in rank 39 you will have earned only about half of the total SP needed to get to rank 50. It's barely over half way there.



Quote:
My problem with ranking up in XIV is not necessarily that it's slow, but that it's slow AND boring. You spend too much time killing the same weak little sh*ts that require little strategy and mostly repetitious strategy. Repetition= mundane= boring.



Do you know of an MMO where ranking/leveling up isn't or wasn't repetitive? Just curious cause I might want to start playing it xD

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#87 Jan 05 2011 at 8:57 AM Rating: Default
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Sephrick wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
You can't discount leves as not being content, they are content like it or not. They may not have the variety that we would like to see until the later ranks, but that doesn't mean they are not content. r40 leves even have what I would call "boss battles", you can't tell me a boss battle isn't content.


If we were playing XI would you call the Empress Band "content"?

Granted, it fits the literal definition because it's something contained in the game, but it'll hardly get the masses to sign up.

Anyway, my point is that that's all leves are. A 36-hour exp bonus with a paragraph that the initiating player can read.

This goes back to the other thread, we shouldn't have to play for 100 hours to get a glimpse of the "content." You keep bringing up R40 leves like they're the answer to everyone's concerns.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 7:09pm by Sephrick


I don't recall getting story with my empress/emperor bands, only dialog about recharging it/getting 1 a tally.
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#88 Jan 05 2011 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
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LuthienOfSeraph wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
You can't discount leves as not being content, they are content like it or not. They may not have the variety that we would like to see until the later ranks, but that doesn't mean they are not content. r40 leves even have what I would call "boss battles", you can't tell me a boss battle isn't content.
It's debatable, I'll give you that. The "story" part of a levequest doesn't ever touch your chat log, so I still don't consider it content. Have you read all of them? Did you read them when you first undertook that leve? I did during beta, mostly to check for errors. They're all extremely similar from the little I read. The "content" I'm talking about has a real story, not a task to be completed that you don't even have to read the story to do.

As my edit of my previous post points out, just comparing XI starter nation missions to XIV storyline quests shows the difference in content. Right now, Eorzea doesn't have a story it seems to be telling me. Vana'diel always seemed to have a story that I wanted to know the ending of. I honestly hope that changes soon for Eorzea, and I'm sure it will at some point. But the lack of it at this point makes leveling feel slow.

Just because they don't add much to the story doesn't mean they aren't content, it just means they don't add much to the story. Leves are still content, and fun content at the later ranks too. I'll be the first to admit this game needs more story quests, with cut-scenes and whatnot though.
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#90 Jan 05 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Crevox wrote:
The majority of people who are 50 abused the huge amounts of SP gain you got before the November update...

Now, it's much harder and takes much more time. A good rank up around 40+ takes 7-8 hours.


7-8 hours for a rank is not a long time.
#91 Jan 05 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
I agree with the premise of the OP, but leveling DoL is slow as balls. Especially botany. I'd rather go to the dentist than chop those trees over and over for crap SP.

Luckily there are some dedicated botanists on my help to supply for carpentry and repair needs ^^



If you want to level any DOL job then you need to get botany to 25 as soon as possible. There is nothing like watching it kick in and get 1200 fishing skill points followed by 1166 and another 1200. It is fun just watching it kick in and getting a 100 on a failure. If all I am doing is leveling a DOL job then I remove all of the other specials but that one.
#92 Jan 05 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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It's not that lvling is slow, it's that it has lost it's team based focus.

If I want to solo lvl, I'll play a non mmo. Solo lvling in mmo's is retarded.

I hit 50 before they changed the SP system, and yes it was faster when you cap most fights and shred through the mobs with a pt of 12+. But it wasn't the sp rate that made me have fun, it was the fact that we were a large pt, and could try fighting all sorts of mobs, from raptors and drakes, to ants and mongrels.

Now I have thm at 20, which I was going to lvl, but it looks like everyone is just either 1-3 manning doblyns or doing leves/behests... So I'm just gonna wait on lvling battle jobs. I have a backlog of offline games that are far more fun than solo'ing in this game. I play mmo's for the non solo content.

But yes, you can still get lots and lots of sp now if you want to.
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#93 Jan 05 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. The reason a lot of people are 50 already stems from 2 things.

1. They partied a TON before the November patch. As has been mentioned, before the patch it was pretty common to see 20-25k/hr in a decent party on efts/raptors/etc.

2. They have no lives. I know that's harsh to say, but it's the truth. I play this game a LOT. Probably on average at least 3-4 hours a day (most days, not all) and my highest class is r36. I can pretty much guarantee that it will be another 3 months or more before I hit the cap.

I really don't think that 6+ months of straight leveling is "fast leveling". There is such a huge difference between something that is challenging and something that is time consuming. Certainly there are ways to make ffxiv more challenging (increasing star level on leves, grouping on IT+ mobs) but if you actually DO that, you will gain SP SLOWER than if you just went through the game in a zerg style on weak mobs. That right there is the broken part of leveling in my opinion. I'm sick of games that are nothing but time sinks for leveling. I want a challenge, and I want to be rewarded for that challenge. I don't really think that is too much to ask, but in the current state of the game, that is how it goes.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 11:27am by BartelX
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#94 Jan 05 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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daour wrote:
first of all you can't compare a game in 2010 with a game in 1999.

everything changed, if it was ok to hit cap i 1 year in ffxi, its not ok to hit cap in 4 months in 2010.
if it was ok to build a game where leveling is the main factor in 1999, its not ok in 2010.

99.9% of the MMO's in this generation is build around end game content, where your leveling is your learning experience to know how to play your character, then you hit cap and start doing the cool end game stuff.



You don't understand the issue. It's not the amount of time it takes to get to cap. It's the lack of crap to do on the way there. For the sake of exaggeration - I would be just fine with a game that had 5 levels, each taking 6 months to obtain. All I need is stuff to do that's fun! If for each level there were 50 dungeons, 100 quests, tons of abilities to unlock and places to explore. Defend this. Retrieve that. Kill this. Make that. I just need to be engaged and have fun. I don't need to rank up.

Never played a skill based game? You don't level...you just play and get better at certain things. 'Cap' is just some number they chose to be the cut off of when that little green (blue?) bar stops moving. The journey there should be just as fun as once I've reached it.

-Kash
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#95SoumaKyou, Posted: Jan 05 2011 at 12:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Not everyone likes Guild Wars.
#96 Jan 05 2011 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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seiferdincht wrote:

The comparisons tip grossly to XI's favor even if you cut those mission lines out.


Do you happen to have a list of quests that were available at JP release versus quests that may have been added before NA release or the RoZ expansion? I don't listen to arguments of "You're wrong." The 3 jobs were only an example of what wasn't available at FFXI's original release.


To no one in particular:
In terms of people "already" being rank 50 and not having lives, it may just be possible that there are people out there that enjoy grinding, or maybe they have friends that they play with, or any number of other reasons to keep them playing. Pre-Novemeber or post-, I imagine that people above R30 (especially those R50) care enough about FFXIV and it's success to trust in the dev team. In the meantime, they do what they can, when they can. Yes, some people may be the stereotypical older person living at home, jobless, playing 12-14 hours a day. That doesn't mean all the R40-50 are; some know how to accept a game as it is, having faith things will be added as they can.

If you are too impatient to wait, quit and check the forums for when whatever-it-is-that-you-want gets added. This is the age of IT, fast food, and instant gratification; some people just don't have the patience or the tolerance to do something that isn't exactly what they want.

Oh, and in terms of "everyone" being R50 already, I'm going to make a completely fictional comparison that may not be too far off. Let's say there are 10,000 people on the forum R50 (since this topic mentions the signatures). Now, let's say of the 18 servers, there is only an average of 2,000 people who play per server. 10,000/36,000 is 28%. Now before anyone comments, I know this figure is fictional and may be extremely far off. My point is, I think some of you may be looking at the R50s on the forum and applying them to your server, not all servers combined.

Edit: Changed percentage before someone tried to call me on not rounding up 27.7% on a fake statistic :)


Edited, Jan 5th 2011 2:11pm by Silvano13
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#97 Jan 05 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Kashius wrote:
daour wrote:
first of all you can't compare a game in 2010 with a game in 1999.

everything changed, if it was ok to hit cap i 1 year in ffxi, its not ok to hit cap in 4 months in 2010.
if it was ok to build a game where leveling is the main factor in 1999, its not ok in 2010.

99.9% of the MMO's in this generation is build around end game content, where your leveling is your learning experience to know how to play your character, then you hit cap and start doing the cool end game stuff.



You don't understand the issue. It's not the amount of time it takes to get to cap. It's the lack of crap to do on the way there. For the sake of exaggeration - I would be just fine with a game that had 5 levels, each taking 6 months to obtain. All I need is stuff to do that's fun! If for each level there were 50 dungeons, 100 quests, tons of abilities to unlock and places to explore. Defend this. Retrieve that. Kill this. Make that. I just need to be engaged and have fun. I don't need to rank up.

Never played a skill based game? You don't level...you just play and get better at certain things. 'Cap' is just some number they chose to be the cut off of when that little green (blue?) bar stops moving. The journey there should be just as fun as once I've reached it.

-Kash


Spot on and rated up. The issue isn't the time, it is the lack of fun things or grinding during that time. Yeah yeah, the game is what you make it. Guess what? Every game is what you make it except games with engaging content have engaging content AND what you make it.
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#98 Jan 05 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
...They have no lives. I know that's harsh to say, but it's the truth. I play this game a LOT. Probably on average at least 3-4 hours a day (most days, not all) and my highest class is r36. I can pretty much guarantee that it will be another 3 months or more before I hit the cap.


QFT. Kudos BartelX, don't pull those punches and don't sugar coat that truth. :-P I think I tried to allude to this fact in a softer more PC way earlier in this same thread.

I play 2-3 hours per session approx. 3-4 days a week, and I think I play a LOT (almost TOO MUCH). I am nowhere close to reaching cap, with my highest job being a Rank 31 THM. So for someone with my kind of playtime, leveling is "slow".

I try not to label or justify my playtime as casual / average / normal because everyone assigns different meanings to those terms. My previous comment regarding everything being relative means that if I were to compare my playtime to someone who plays 8+ hour day, I could justify my playtime as "casual". No offense to those with that kind of playtime (I'm just jealous ><), but I don't use you as benchmark by which to gauge anything.
#99 Jan 05 2011 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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Crevox wrote:
The majority of people who are 50 abused the huge amounts of SP gain you got before the November update...

Now, it's much harder and takes much more time. A good rank up around 40+ takes 7-8 hours.


This is true, but there are also players who just have copious amounts of time to spend grinding away all day long.

It's pretty easy to do with an enabler and no personal relationships to get in the way.
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#100 Jan 05 2011 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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SoumaKyou wrote:
Kashius wrote:
Never played a skill based game? You don't level...you just play and get better at certain things. 'Cap' is just some number they chose to be the cut off of when that little green (blue?) bar stops moving. The journey there should be just as fun as once I've reached it.

-Kash

Not everyone likes Guild Wars.


What are you talking about? Did I mention Guild Wars? GW isn't even skill based. Point is, NO GAME should be boring up until 'cap' and THEN get fun. A game should be fun. Period.

-Kash
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#101 Jan 05 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Kashius wrote:
SoumaKyou wrote:
Kashius wrote:
Never played a skill based game? You don't level...you just play and get better at certain things. 'Cap' is just some number they chose to be the cut off of when that little green (blue?) bar stops moving. The journey there should be just as fun as once I've reached it.

-Kash

Not everyone likes Guild Wars.


What are you talking about? Did I mention Guild Wars? GW isn't even skill based. Point is, NO GAME should be boring up until 'cap' and THEN get fun. A game should be fun. Period.

-Kash


Agreed.

The game needs something to hook people BEFORE they get bored and leave, not test their boredom limits before getting to the good stuff.
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