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Just HOW is lvling slow if so many people are 50?!Follow

#102 Jan 05 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Default
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People are trying to compare a game released in NA after more than a year of development and the introduction of an expansion to a game released in NA/JP/EU at the same time.


As they should be, if they're trying to decide on an MMO to play. In fact, they should be comparing FFXIV to every other MMO on the market, and be asking, "Why should I play this game?" And I honestly have to question the judgment of anyone who found a sufficient reason, but I imagine the trick is that most people didn't really do that.

Quote:
It's not that lvling is slow, it's that it has lost it's team based focus.


And that killing the monsters is boring and easy because we're discouraged from fighting challenging monsters, and the fundamental dynamics of combat are boring and trite. Part of what makes a game fun is what it allows you to DO, and FFXIV doesn't allow you to do much that is interesting.



And generally Kashius is right on with his sentiments here.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#103 Jan 05 2011 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
People are trying to compare a game released in NA after more than a year of development and the introduction of an expansion to a game released in NA/JP/EU at the same time.


As they should be, if they're trying to decide on an MMO to play. In fact, they should be comparing FFXIV to every other MMO on the market, and be asking, "Why should I play this game?" And I honestly have to question the judgment of anyone who found a sufficient reason, but I imagine the trick is that most people didn't really do that.

Why's that? As we should be? Not all of us want another generic WoW clone. Seriously, you guys act like all new games should be modeled after the games that came before it. If that were the case, we'd never have titles like Grand Theft Auto, EverQuest, Battlefield, or even the Warcraft series that some of you hold in such high regard. Why? Because there'd be no innovation, and all games would be carbon copies of each other.

XIV has a lot of faults, mainly having to do with a severe lack of content. However, it has a ton of potential, and I'm glad it went away from the hack n' slash arcade-style gameplay of WoW and into a more traditional RPG-style gameplay. I'm glad that you can use certain abilities to target certain parts of mobs to disable them, and the fact that it's built into the combat system instead of just being a fight mechanic for a single boss. I'm glad that you can use skill chains with party members to increase effectiveness and damage instead of just mindlessly spamming every ability you have. I'm glad that the class system was modified the way it was, and we can choose the abilities that contribute more to our playstyle.

The game has a lot of potential. XI had, in my opinion, the best original and most immersive storyline of any MMO I've ever played, so I know Square's good for that. Really, the game just needs NPC-given quests outside of leves, and it really needs better class distinction, and end-game content. It's not a broken game anymore like it was on release. It's just that doing nothing but grinding is a pain that most of us would rather do without, or at least have something rewarding to look forward to. That aside, there is potential for a great game, if only to appeal to a niche crowd. But if you can't see the potential that the game has, then you're obviously one of the people who bash this game just because it's the "cool" thing to do.
#104 Jan 05 2011 at 7:12 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:

Why's that? As we should be? Not all of us want another generic WoW clone. Seriously, you guys act like all new games should be modeled after the games that came before it. If that were the case, we'd never have titles like Grand Theft Auto, EverQuest, Battlefield, or even the Warcraft series that some of you hold in such high regard. Why? Because there'd be no innovation, and all games would be carbon copies of each other.


What are you talking about? I don't even like WoW. Seriously, it's like you pulled that argument out of your rear.

Edit: Also, the battle system, which is one of my chief complaints, is really very similar to WoW minus auto-attack.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 5:18pm by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#105 Jan 06 2011 at 12:01 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
People are trying to compare a game released in NA after more than a year of development and the introduction of an expansion to a game released in NA/JP/EU at the same time.


As they should be, if they're trying to decide on an MMO to play. In fact, they should be comparing FFXIV to every other MMO on the market, and be asking, "Why should I play this game?" And I honestly have to question the judgment of anyone who found a sufficient reason, but I imagine the trick is that most people didn't really do that.


They're not trying to decide on an MMO to play, they are comparing FFXI's NA release to FFXIV's global release and saying there isn't the same amount of content. There shouldn't be...see previous post.

FFXI was released in the NA after a year+ of development and the addition of an expansion pack. If you are trying to argue FFXI NA release had more content than FFXIV release, it does. If you want to make an accurate comparison, however, come back and compare FFXI NA's release content and FFXIV's content after another year.
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#106 Jan 06 2011 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

They're not trying to decide on an MMO to play, they are comparing FFXI's NA release to FFXIV's global release and saying there isn't the same amount of content. There shouldn't be...see previous post.

FFXI was released in the NA after a year+ of development and the addition of an expansion pack. If you are trying to argue FFXI NA release had more content than FFXIV release, it does. If you want to make an accurate comparison, however, come back and compare FFXI NA's release content and FFXIV's content after another year.


FFXI JP release had significantly more content than FFXIV release does, sadly. But my point was that they should be comparing this game to other current games if trying to pick the most fun game. In that sense, it's irrelevant how much content other games had at launch unless they launched recently. Mostly because XI launched at a time where there was really very little competition for MMO subscriptions. The market is more competitive, and FFXIV was not a competitive release, in that it does not compete well with other games. It barely competes with other free games.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if XIV did release with the same amount of content as XI did, it would not be viewed favorably in the current market. Given that it actually launched with less, it was a stupefyingly bad decision.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#107 Jan 06 2011 at 4:03 AM Rating: Decent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Hugus wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
I don't get why people complain about this at all.

Especially when after lvling my first character in XI for almost 2 years I'm about halfway to the level cap. On zam or in-game you only have to look at the user's info to see that 50 is a VERY common lvl for many many players.

What's the rush to get there especially with no endgame to be played?

Wouldn't it be boring if lvling was faster and everyone had all jobs maxed in few years and it would make all the players have the same skill sets?

For the record I've never thought leveling in XI is too slow, but I know if the same speed was applied to XIV all **** would break loose on forums.


See, here's my issue: there's no content. The few there is its for rank 50s. In XI you had a bunch of things to keep you entertained until you hit 75. But on XIV you're pretty much negligible if you aren't 50.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 8:01am by MajidahSihaam


And what content was that except RoZ and CoP which werent there at launch, not that much and what there was is comparable to what FFXIV does have!


Are you kidding me? Sub job quest, advanced jobs quests, QUESTS in general, all the nation missions, hunting for RSE? Seriously, what the @#%^.


So thats 1 Sub Job quest, 0 Advanced jobs quests as they were only added later, not there at launch, quests in general were about maybe 4 per fame rank, nation missions you have an average of 3 per rank, RSE if available at launch (which I doubt) is still 5 pieces per 5 jobs = 30.

So you get a total of about 100 "quests/nissions", Something tells me that on leves alone there r more than 100 then add main storyline and all class quests and you get more content on XIV than on XI,
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what the @#%^.
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#108 Jan 06 2011 at 4:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:

They're not trying to decide on an MMO to play, they are comparing FFXI's NA release to FFXIV's global release and saying there isn't the same amount of content. There shouldn't be...see previous post.

FFXI was released in the NA after a year+ of development and the addition of an expansion pack. If you are trying to argue FFXI NA release had more content than FFXIV release, it does. If you want to make an accurate comparison, however, come back and compare FFXI NA's release content and FFXIV's content after another year.


FFXI JP release had significantly more content than FFXIV release does, sadly. But my point was that they should be comparing this game to other current games if trying to pick the most fun game. In that sense, it's irrelevant how much content other games had at launch unless they launched recently. Mostly because XI launched at a time where there was really very little competition for MMO subscriptions. The market is more competitive, and FFXIV was not a competitive release, in that it does not compete well with other games. It barely competes with other free games.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if XIV did release with the same amount of content as XI did, it would not be viewed favorably in the current market. Given that it actually launched with less, it was a stupefyingly bad decision.


Exactly. Its completely irrelevant what FFXI released with vs what FFXIV did. its like comparing ford's model T to a ford focus. You compare whats available now. What people should really be comparing, is FFXIV to the amount of new stuff in cataclysm, and/or DCU online.
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#109 Jan 06 2011 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
TheRealDestian wrote:
Crevox wrote:
The majority of people who are 50 abused the huge amounts of SP gain you got before the November update...

Now, it's much harder and takes much more time. A good rank up around 40+ takes 7-8 hours.


This is true, but there are also players who just have copious amounts of time to spend grinding away all day long.

It's pretty easy to do with an enabler and no personal relationships to get in the way.


I agree. I am still sad about missing out on the good amount of SP I would have gotten if they hadn't dropped Lanolin down so far. Right before update I could barely make it, and got a LOT of sp. Right after update it was way easy and now only got 250sp~ or something. I cried a little. Made my following ranks take a lot longer due to the increased amount of synths I have to perform.

As far as DoW/M/L classes go, I don't think leveling is really slow...there is (at least) a constant and infinite free supply of sp available. Crafters (as a MAIN JOB...supposedly) could use some kind of adjustment to balance out how long it takes us to get to r50 compared to other classes.

Two friends starting the game together in the current system would not be able to do storylines "together" (I say together because a lot of couples/friends like to stay the same rank or whatever as they play through the game)if one wanted to be a dedicated crafter. I kinda assumed that as a main job any two people could level up at almost the same rate, regardless of the job.

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 7:05am by StateAlchemist2

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 7:06am by StateAlchemist2
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#110 Jan 06 2011 at 6:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Consodering myself as a main crafter the only inbalance I would like to see adressed by SE is that DoH leves are the only ones which do not let you know if they have Guild Marks before hand or not.

Skill points wise I'm happy with it, even if I might be ranking up once every 1 or 2 weeks at the moment.
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#111 Jan 06 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
Yes, I forgot about that part...not know what gives GMs...I don't wanna waste 1 or more of my 8 LQs I can do hoping I can get some Guild Marks... especially when most of the time I don't even get any LQs that offer even a miniscule amount of SP.

Let us choose like every other discipline, and tell us if its going to reward marks. I would have no complaints with the LQ system if they did that.
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#112 Jan 06 2011 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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SoumaKyou wrote:
XIV has a lot of faults, mainly having to do with a severe lack of content. However, it has a ton of potential, and I'm glad it went away from the hack n' slash arcade-style gameplay of WoW and into a more traditional RPG-style gameplay. I'm glad that you can use certain abilities to target certain parts of mobs to disable them, and the fact that it's built into the combat system instead of just being a fight mechanic for a single boss. I'm glad that you can use skill chains with party members to increase effectiveness and damage instead of just mindlessly spamming every ability you have. I'm glad that the class system was modified the way it was, and we can choose the abilities that contribute more to our playstyle.



I'm not sure if you've never really played WoW, or if you're just being disingenuous in your comments. "Mindlessly spamming" your abilities is the last thing you want to do in WoW, unless you dont understand the game mechanics or just don't care about your performance.

You have to come up with a solid skill set and good rotations to maximize the effectiveness of whatever build you make and then balance your stats and gear around that build (acc, crit, haste, etc). You also need to manage your procs and timers for buffs and debuffs so you know when to use certain skills or when not to, and then adapt your rotation to boss mechanics and adds, and however else the situation might change. You just do not start a character and punch your keyboard and profit, like some people here seem to think. Of course, some content becomes a ridiculously easy AOE fest, as the player base out levels and out gears it, but that should be expected and Blizzard seems to have addressed it more in Cataclysm. Moreover, there is ALWAYS content that is more challenging which the same people who complain about challenge and mindless AOE button mashing conveniently ignore. Probably because it's too hard for them.

Im really not sure what is considered so deep about the battle system in FFXIV. I do agree that incapacitation was a step in the right direction, but aside from that, the battle system feels rather awkward to me. Very often the game doesnt register the commands Ive given, and the laggy overlapping animations make it even worse. I do more mindless button mashing in this game than I ever did in WoW. Gear custimization is also, as far as stats go, mostly a joke; on top of that, they took out gear swaps during battle, which as a min-maxer is something I always took full advantage of in XI.

Also, I'm not sure what you know about WoW's skill system, but it has a good amount of variety and customization for each class. Plus, I hear they've expanded on that even more with aspects introduced in Cataclysm. I know FFXIV has the potential to be very customizable, but with the time it takes to skill up currently, I'm not sure how you think it's realistic to level other jobs high enough to use most of their abilities. Plus, to be honest it leaves the different classes feeling very generic. The one thing I do feel they got right was allowing players to distribute stat points as they see fit; however even with that, they put a cap on it so you cant REALLY make your character how you want to.

When I played FFXI I use to hate on WoW also, until my life got hectic and I had no other choice but to pick up a game like WoW because I just didn't have the time to invest in FFXI. When I did, I realized the game wasnt nearly as simplistic or "easy-mode" as I had thought.

Of course, there are plenty of easy mode activities, but there is also plenty of content that is challenging and rewarding, and as everyone here likes to say, the game is what you make it. I think some people need to realize, just because YOU find time sinks and extremely drawn out leveling systems rewarding and challenging, not everyone does. I hope that game developers eventually come up with a more challenging leveling system that does not reward people for investing unhealthy amounts of time on a video game. There is nothing "hardcore" about not having anything to do besides sit in front of a computer.

I don't even play WoW anymore and I'm definitely not a WoW fan boy. I'm currently enjoying (sometimes) FFXIV, but at the moment, I honestly think WoW is a much better game. I have a lot of hope for FFXIV though. Still, its ridiculous how many people bash on WoW, especially when it seems theyve barely played it, or never played it at all, and definitely never cared to learn the intricacies of it and tackle the more serious content.
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#113 Jan 06 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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The whole FFXI vs. FFXIV content argument is silly because "content" is a very subjective term. You can't quantify "content". In the purest form, content is the amount of stuff you can do. In that regard, both FFXI and FFXIV have nearly an infinite amount of "content". You'd have to level every class to 50, craft every item, fight every monster, do every quest/leve, talk to every NPC, etc. etc. in order to run out of "content".

But what people really mean by "content" is purely their opinion of practical content. Obviously very few, if any, people are going to level every class to 50. No one is going to craft every single item. So we decide for ourselves how much content we want to do. THAT is what people are trying to compare. But you can't compare two peoples' opinions; trying to do so only results in an endless argument. Some people don't like raiding, and so a raid-centric game will have little content for them. Likewise for people who don't like grinding, FFXIV doesn't have much content. It's not that it doesn't have "content", it's that it doesn't have content you want to do.
#114 Jan 06 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:

Why's that? As we should be? Not all of us want another generic WoW clone. Seriously, you guys act like all new games should be modeled after the games that came before it. If that were the case, we'd never have titles like Grand Theft Auto, EverQuest, Battlefield, or even the Warcraft series that some of you hold in such high regard. Why? Because there'd be no innovation, and all games would be carbon copies of each other.


What are you talking about? I don't even like WoW. Seriously, it's like you pulled that argument out of your rear.

Edit: Also, the battle system, which is one of my chief complaints, is really very similar to WoW minus auto-attack.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 5:18pm by Kachi

I was using WoW as a reference. My argument applies to any game that you personally think XIV should be modeled after, or be similar to.

As far as the combat system goes, I wonder if you've even played WoW, or even XIV for that matter. They're not similar by any means, aside from the fact that you're attacking something and pressing buttons, which is true of any game.
#115 Jan 06 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Default
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When I did, I realized the game wasn�t nearly as simplistic or "easy-mode" as I had thought.


ThankYOU! Everyone I know who plays ffxi/ffxiv and hates on WoW never made it out the starting city. To say max out your DPS you can't simply wait till your TP meter is full and hit your gear swap WS macro. I learned the hard way trying to DPS on a pally and hitting the same buttons over and over. I used to think there was no strats since in every instance we would just plow through. That changed my first ICC run and we wiped over and over again.
#116 Jan 06 2011 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Quote:
When I did, I realized the game wasn�t nearly as simplistic or "easy-mode" as I had thought.


ThankYOU! Everyone I know who plays ffxi/ffxiv and hates on WoW never made it out the starting city. To say max out your DPS you can't simply wait till your TP meter is full and hit your gear swap WS macro. I learned the hard way trying to DPS on a pally and hitting the same buttons over and over. I used to think there was no strats since in every instance we would just plow through. That changed my first ICC run and we wiped over and over again.

I hate on WoW because it lost its soul. There were several elements to WoW that made it great, but that's been lost to cater to the terrible players who stood in fire all day and expected no repercussions.

PVP... dead. World PVP was EVERYTHING back in vanilla. I still remember the 40 vs 40 wars between raiding guilds running to BWL. I still remember full Horde raids fighting Lethon while a full Alliance raid tries to wipe them. I still remember the skirmishes outside of Tyr's Hand, Silithus, etc. that broke out every single day. The Local Defense Channel was always buzzing with reports of the opposing faction attacking and people asking for backup, and then the cavalry arriving in droves to fend off the attackers. Where's that now? I don't remember my latest BG victory. ****, I barely even remember what I did and who I fought when I got the armored Netherdrake or armored Proto Drake from getting Gladiator.

PVE... lame. Granted, I hear Cata made PVE a lot harder. That said, it's lame that 40-man raids have been dumbed down to 25-mans, and now you only need a 10-man to get the same loot. Hard to max DPS? No it's not. Learn your rotation/priority. It's literally 3-4 buttons, depending on class, to maximize DPS, not counting gear.

nonameoflevi wrote:
That changed my first ICC run and we wiped over and over again.

Heroic LK was the only tough fight in ICC, and even that was easy after the 15% buff.

H Marrowgar? Oohh, Bone Spikes DURING Bone Storm. So much more difficult than Regular. /sarcasm.

H Lootship? If anyone ever wiped on Lootship, they don't deserve to be in ICC.

H Deathwhisper? It's only hard if your group sucks and tunnelvisions her, getting hit by ghosts and leaving her adds free to run around.

H Saurfang? 2 Warlocks makes this fight trivial.

H Festergut? Learn2stack for spores and run from malleable thx.

H Rotface? Honestly, basically exactly the same as normal mode.

H Putricide? Pass the disease, avoid malleable, and switch to slimes when they pop. Only terrible guilds can't do this fight.

H Dreamwalker? Basically the same as regular. Don't stand in the blue or black stuff.

H Blood Princes? As long as you have competent Hunters and Warlocks who can put their pets on the orbs, this fight is also trivial.

H Blood Queen? Same as regular, except everything hits harder, faster, and more often.

H Sindragosa? Learn2position. Ranged stay on Sind, melee kill ice tombs. Wipe the debuff, stay away from raid when you're marked.

H Lich King. Difficult. Requires near-perfect raid execution for defiles (not so much at 15-30% buff). vile Spirits stage was fun. Also fun to stand in an ice trap and get launched a mile away from the platform.

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 2:57pm by SoumaKyou
#117 Jan 06 2011 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is more of a question than a statement/opinion, since I haven't even started playing FFXIV yet..

With FFXIV as in its current state, are there significant "milestones" that gives you a great sense of accomplishment from character (and not job/class) lvl 1 - lvl 50?

When I played FFXI, though I was aware that I was "grinding" majority of the time, I never felt.. what's the right word.. burnt out? But yet I found myself unable to fire back at people who complained about the FFXI "grindfest", because its definitely a huge part of the game... so what made me felt "ok" or even "enjoyed" all the grinding in FFXI..? And I realized its the "milestones" that somehow made me felt that all the grinding were worth it...

Example of FFXI milestones..

level 9-12: When you start forming parties with other players + getting the full taste of FFXI xp party at Dunes
level 18-20: Sub job! Jeuno! Chocobo!!
level 23-25: Airship!!
level 30s: Advanced jobs!!!
level 50-60: AF set!!!
etc...

In a sense FFXI was successful in dangling just the right amount of carrots to make me want to advance my lvls lol.. Do we have something that can be considered as "milestones" in FFXIV?

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 3:52pm by kimutako

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 3:54pm by kimutako
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#118 Jan 06 2011 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
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No

Its

1 - Start grinding Coblyns
50 - Kill your last coblyn and now you can do NM
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#119 Jan 06 2011 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I think a BIG part of what FFXIV needs is class distinction. There's just no bond formed to your character because it can be anything and everything.

Even if that distinction just comes from class-specific quest armor with a distinct look (a la AF), I'd be perfectly content with how the class system is.
#120 Jan 06 2011 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
The whole FFXI vs. FFXIV content argument is silly because "content" is a very subjective term. You can't quantify "content". In the purest form, content is the amount of stuff you can do. In that regard, both FFXI and FFXIV have nearly an infinite amount of "content". You'd have to level every class to 50, craft every item, fight every monster, do every quest/leve, talk to every NPC, etc. etc. in order to run out of "content".

But what people really mean by "content" is purely their opinion of practical content. Obviously very few, if any, people are going to level every class to 50. No one is going to craft every single item. So we decide for ourselves how much content we want to do. THAT is what people are trying to compare. But you can't compare two peoples' opinions; trying to do so only results in an endless argument. Some people don't like raiding, and so a raid-centric game will have little content for them. Likewise for people who don't like grinding, FFXIV doesn't have much content. It's not that it doesn't have "content", it's that it doesn't have content you want to do.


I agree. Everyone knows the amount of content in this game. There aren't secret activities that only a few people know about, whats there is there, even if a person hasn't had the chance to do it yet. The debate is whether or not a person finds what we have now acceptable.
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#121 Jan 06 2011 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:

They're not trying to decide on an MMO to play, they are comparing FFXI's NA release to FFXIV's global release and saying there isn't the same amount of content. There shouldn't be...see previous post.

FFXI was released in the NA after a year+ of development and the addition of an expansion pack. If you are trying to argue FFXI NA release had more content than FFXIV release, it does. If you want to make an accurate comparison, however, come back and compare FFXI NA's release content and FFXIV's content after another year.


FFXI JP release had significantly more content than FFXIV release does, sadly. But my point was that they should be comparing this game to other current games if trying to pick the most fun game. In that sense, it's irrelevant how much content other games had at launch unless they launched recently. Mostly because XI launched at a time where there was really very little competition for MMO subscriptions. The market is more competitive, and FFXIV was not a competitive release, in that it does not compete well with other games. It barely competes with other free games.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if XIV did release with the same amount of content as XI did, it would not be viewed favorably in the current market. Given that it actually launched with less, it was a stupefyingly bad decision.


I agree with you that they shouldn't be comparing FFXIV to FFXI's release; I was simply pointing out that the comparison they were making was not relevent because they were comparing FFXI at it's NA release, not it's original JP release.

Edit: I also stand by my original sentiment. If you aren't having fun and don't want to do what's available now, stop playing. This and plenty of other forums will let you know when that special aspect you want gets put into the game, be it more storyline, more NMs, etc. ("You" as a global form, not directed at you personally Kachi)

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 7:11pm by Silvano13
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#122 Jan 06 2011 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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Gosh! There sure are a lot of opinions about leveling and content.

I supposed it would be more accurate to say that the average speed of ranking up is not as fast as most modern MMOs. (I'm only doing leves and my Physical Level seems to be coming along just fine). This is more true if you consider yourself a "casual" gamer. Now the max speed (which apparently can be attained by having a consistent party, chaining leves and constant behests) seems to be satisfactory, but harder to achieve. I have not heard any casual gamer on here, comment about being max level, although I'm sure they are out there if they've played faithfully since launch. I'm guessing the majority of the r50s are the hardcore gamers, who not having any other activities to fill their time, simply grinded and followed the path above.

As for the amount of content, ignore every other game and consider FFXIV just on the merit that it is a Final Fantasy Game. Now everyone knows that FFs share certain characteristics in common (chocobos, Cid, some form of crystal, etc. ) but they all also attempt to bring something new to the table with each installment (materia, dressspheres, crystarium, etc.) Whether or not you agreed with the direction each game took, I've never heard an argument over whether or not Final Fantasy was moving forward.

FFXIV was.. is meant to be a poetic and technologic leap ahead for the series. Something that took the knowledge learned and technological advances of the last 10 years to give the world a Final Fantasy that would set the stage for the next ten years. Instead we got a graphical upgrade of a game that could've just as easily been made 5 if not 10 years ago. There is nothing in FFXIV that I have not seen in previous Final Fantasies. Guildleves are pretty much a continuation of the missions set up in FFTAdvance and Advance 2. The leveling multiple jobs and taking the parts from each one was lifted from FFT. The most original thought in this game is the retainers and nobody plays a game for how their storage space is set up.

Now keep in mind I like this game. All my friends are waiting for the PS3 version to pick the controllers back up and yet I play on. What I'm saying is this game does not need "content" it needs "new". It needs new (preferably original) things to make the grind worth it, spaced out in such a way that the grind does not get tedious. It's that simple. What form can this new take? How about "party merits" so people have a reason to party up? Or something "small" like a bad guy that makes Sephiroth look like Alfafa?

Personally I think the pace of leveling on XIV is faster than XI, but then again I'm only r22 lnc. I'm not in a rush to get to the end of a game I'm supposed to be playing all my life, but I know that my frustration is with the way this game hinders my efforts to level (fatigue and guildleve limits).
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#123 Jan 07 2011 at 12:07 AM Rating: Good
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I was using WoW as a reference. My argument applies to any game that you personally think XIV should be modeled after, or be similar to.

As far as the combat system goes, I wonder if you've, even played WoW, or even XIV for that matter. They're not similar by any means, aside from the fact that you're attacking something and pressing buttons, which is true of any game.


Well then your argument was pointless, because I and many other players don't think FFXIV should be modeled after any other MMO.

I have played WoW and XIV, and the actual combat itself is pretty similar. Yes, they're similar in ways that many games of this kind are similar, but that's not really a compliment to the genre. If your point is that combat in FFXIV is ok because it's like combat in other games, then I have to ask how that ties in for your desire for FFXIV to be something different.

If anything, it's not nearly innovative enough.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#124 Jan 07 2011 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I hate on WoW because it lost its soul.


I'm not going to quote everyting you said. Just a few comments. Maybe you feel that way because you have been playing it for so long? I just hit cap 2 months ago so its still all new to me. And they way you described all those dugeon bosses. To you it seems easy, but as I read it, seems kinda complicated to me. You mean, you cant just tank and spank all the bosses? You need certain jobs to make the boss "easy"? Well yeah it all sounds easymode to me for sure. Hmm maxing DPS required a rotation of 3-4 buttons. Yup thats a lot eaiser then getting TP to spam WS macro. I think you just proved my point and I have no idea what any of those H fights are lol.
#125 Jan 07 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
I was using WoW as a reference. My argument applies to any game that you personally think XIV should be modeled after, or be similar to.

As far as the combat system goes, I wonder if you've, even played WoW, or even XIV for that matter. They're not similar by any means, aside from the fact that you're attacking something and pressing buttons, which is true of any game.


Well then your argument was pointless, because I and many other players don't think FFXIV should be modeled after any other MMO.

I have played WoW and XIV, and the actual combat itself is pretty similar. Yes, they're similar in ways that many games of this kind are similar, but that's not really a compliment to the genre. If your point is that combat in FFXIV is ok because it's like combat in other games, then I have to ask how that ties in for your desire for FFXIV to be something different.

If anything, it's not nearly innovative enough.

All MMO's have similar combat systems because of how the genre is designed. The only truly revolutionary system I've seen in MMO combat has been a game that gives you 9 controllable characters and you fight in a FFT-like battle system (Atlantica Online. It's actually really fun and one of my favorites). Aside from that, I can appreciate small innovations from the standard, and that's exactly what XIV gives. It's not quite the hack n' slash arcade that WoW, Lineage II, Aion, etc. are, but it's not quite the normal Final Fantasy fare either. You not seeing the difference is just funny.

nonameoflevi wrote:
Quote:
I hate on WoW because it lost its soul.


I'm not going to quote everyting you said. Just a few comments. Maybe you feel that way because you have been playing it for so long? I just hit cap 2 months ago so its still all new to me. And they way you described all those dugeon bosses. To you it seems easy, but as I read it, seems kinda complicated to me. You mean, you cant just tank and spank all the bosses? You need certain jobs to make the boss "easy"? Well yeah it all sounds easymode to me for sure. Hmm maxing DPS required a rotation of 3-4 buttons. Yup thats a lot eaiser then getting TP to spam WS macro. I think you just proved my point and I have no idea what any of those H fights are lol.

Those bosses were easy. The H stands for Heroic, which is the hardest mode of a dungeon. Those bosses were from the hardest dungeon in the game at the time. Tank n' spank bosses are few and far between in most of today's games. A rotation is harder than waiting for TP? Seriously? Mana-based classes are so ridiculously easy in WoW. You don't have to worry about resource management and only have to look at your 1-2-3 sequence. The energy/rage-based classes are more difficult, and are similar to XIV's TP resource, except no one in XIV knows how to maximize DPS yet while WoW's got plenty of theorycrafters who already know how to do it.

Theorycrafting is there for a reason. Min/maxing is about getting your theoretical maximum DPS in the span of a fight. You can't simply spam random abilities in WoW and you can't simply spam your WS and waste your TP in XIV to hit this theoretical number. That's not how "max DPS" works. So no, you can't just "spam WS macro".
#126 Jan 07 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
All MMO's have similar combat systems because of how the genre is designed. The only truly revolutionary system I've seen in MMO combat has been a game that gives you 9 controllable characters and you fight in a FFT-like battle system (Atlantica Online. It's actually really fun and one of my favorites). Aside from that, I can appreciate small innovations from the standard, and that's exactly what XIV gives. It's not quite the hack n' slash arcade that WoW, Lineage II, Aion, etc. are, but it's not quite the normal Final Fantasy fare either. You not seeing the difference is just funny.


No, not at all. MMOs have similar combat systems because of a lack of originality and a willingness to exploit technical capabilities, but not every MMO is similar in that way either. Some MMOs have more action elements, some have more strategic elements. FFXIV and WOW are similar in that they don't really have much of either. The only really substantial differences are the stamina gauge and lack of autoattack. Fundamentally, they are extremely similar.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#127 Jan 07 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
No, not at all. MMOs have similar combat systems because of a lack of originality and a willingness to exploit technical capabilities, but not every MMO is similar in that way either. Some MMOs have more action elements, some have more strategic elements. FFXIV and WOW are similar in that they don't really have much of either. The only really substantial differences are the stamina gauge and lack of autoattack. Fundamentally, they are extremely similar.

FFXIV is right in between Action and Traditional RPG, while WoW is all Action. WoW doesn't lock you onto a mob like the traditional RPG does. Stamina is like the ATB gauge found in classic Final Fantasy titles. XIV now uses the action bar system rather than the menu system, but aside from that, it's still more like XI than it is WoW.

Edited, Jan 7th 2011 3:16pm by SoumaKyou
#128 Jan 07 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I like it slow. It took me years to reach cap with any job in FFXI, but that was because there were so many things to do along the way. I also took time out to play all the different jobs. Even when I was grinding it didn't feel like grinding because I was hanging out and having fun with other players.

FFXIV, in comparison, has nothing else to do BUT grind and grinding solo is far more mind numbing. How do you people find groups to grind with in this game anyway? Before I quit I'd log on for a few minutes to completely silent chat channels and get frustrated by the lack of a functioning party seeking tool. After silently soloing a few mobs I'd log off out of boredom. There's no point in trying out other jobs in this game either other than to get a few key skills. More than half my skill bar carried over to every job in this game and consequently they all play exactly the same. I'm not compelled to spend so much time trying everything out as I did in FFXI. So you're left with levequests as the only alternative to grinding, which are as repetitive and generic as the rest of this game.

I guess that's why leveling feels 'slow'... because there's nothing else to focus on besides the numbers. I'd level up all the time in FFXI without even realizing how close I was, because I was distracted from the grind by FUN gameplay.
#129 Jan 07 2011 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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SE did all of you a favor and all you do is complain. Toe help you stay out of surplus, they made it harder for you to gain Sp at a rate to reach surplus so fast. You should thank them....

Seriously though, I think the time required to be invested to reach 50 in a class is just fine by far, but I agree with those earlier who mention that the main problem is a lack of fluidity as you rank up. You hit a point where it really slows down really fast, when they should have scaled it more gradually.

I also agree with those who mention group grind SP. The option to SP grind as a group should indeed be a viable one. I hate constantly having to quest to see an XP bar move anywhere. It one of the reasons I grew to despise the XPing in EQII. I loved EQ and EQOA, as you could mix grinding and questing rather nicely in my opinion.
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#130 Jan 07 2011 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
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thejones wrote:


If you have 4-8 hours per day to play FFXIV, you too can level "fast"!

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 10:33am by thejones


8 hours a day = a full-time job... sorry, just trying to lighten the mood here.
#131 Jan 08 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
A noob that probably didnt get the previous system where healers could get 500sp each fight, each 30 seconds. Other classes had a mix of 0 and 500 but for healers it was much easier. Then again a noob who joins a game and thinks the game started when he logged in.
#132 Jan 12 2011 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

FFXIV is right in between Action and Traditional RPG, while WoW is all Action. WoW doesn't lock you onto a mob like the traditional RPG does. Stamina is like the ATB gauge found in classic Final Fantasy titles. XIV now uses the action bar system rather than the menu system, but aside from that, it's still more like XI than it is WoW.


By my assessment, both games have very low amounts of strategic or reflexive skill required. WoW isn't all action-- it does have some action, whereas XIV has very little. It only has a lot by comparison. The battle interfaces and mechanics are very similar.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that XIV is more like XI than WoW. In some ways, but not in the ways we're talking about. XI was much more centered on party role and social elements, where XIV is much more button-mashy.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#133namasy, Posted: Jan 12 2011 at 4:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) rankin in this game is slow
#134 Jan 12 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I just hit 50 on my first class this week. It took me from early dec to this week to Rank up from 30->50 and guess what...this was pretty fast still IMO. And I didn't even grind much(from 30-50 I grinded somewhat like 60-80k overall...), the rest was all done through leves...so yeah I do think ranking up is still good.

It took me one **** year in FFXI to reach L75 on my first class...the only difference was...on my way to 75 in FFXI there was a lot of blocks to overcome and a lot of other requirements to be fulfilled and just a lot of stuff to do in between. But FFXIV doesn't have that yet, but for sure that will come over time. So there is no real reason to be 50 yet...I just did it cause there is nothing else to do(besides crafting) and I did it with friends who I enjoy playing with.

The reason why it takes time to rank up is, cause SE wants it to take time...stuff like the faction Leve NMs and the free roaming NMs were only implemented cause there are those that want to get Max Rank in the shortest amount of time and SE would have lost those players pretty fast if there was nothing for them to do...NMs more or less were merely a time filler for those so called "elitists"...give them something to do and they will shut their mouths for a while.

What this game really needs is content over time...stuff to do WHILE you're ranking, not when you're done with ranking.

That's the reason why I voted for "Story/Mini Quests" on the New Year Poll...and seriously...if anyone voted for something else, you need to get shot for being a freaking idiot(especially when you voted for an Auction House)...nothing of what was posted in that list content-wise is more needed in FFXIV right now than Story/Mini Quests and people who don't think that way should quit FFXIV...

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 2:46pm by Shezard
#135 Jan 12 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Are you sure you are not looking at the physical level, rather than the class?
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