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Auction House PetitionFollow

#1 Jan 05 2011 at 9:59 AM Rating: Default
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I wonder if there is someone out there who is techie and passionate enough to get a petition up and going to send to SE. To push for an Auction House. I'm sure there would be hundreds if not thousands willing to petition. I know on my survey the first thing I ticked is auction house.
#2 Jan 05 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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instead of a petition why not take the poll on the lodestone

petitions on sites that do not belong to SE really dont mean much
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#3 Jan 05 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:
instead of a petition why not take the poll on the lodestone

petitions on sites that do not belong to SE really dont mean much


Exactly. SE is well aware people want an AH. Internet petitions are useless as it is, but SE is already gathering the numbers with the lodestone poll. If they decide an AH is warranted, they'll implement it.
#4 Jan 05 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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Or you can do what the other 100 people did, use the Suggestion Forum.
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#5 Jan 05 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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Or you could even use your brain and understand that the system in the game right now is pretty much an auction house, but instead of having to run home to your Mog House to pick up the item you run through the ward. It's a simple simple system that serves its purpose perfectly.

Don't waste more of the developing teams time having to program an implement auction houses (it does take time, a lot of it) when they could instead be adding content so that they may actually make the game fun and draw in subscribers?
#6 Jan 05 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Wloire wrote:
Or you could even use your brain and understand that the system in the game right now is pretty much an auction house, but instead of having to run home to your Mog House to pick up the item you run through the ward. It's a simple simple system that serves its purpose perfectly.

Don't waste more of the developing teams time having to program an implement auction houses (it does take time, a lot of it) when they could instead be adding content so that they may actually make the game fun and draw in subscribers?

this

rate up for you sir!
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#7 Jan 05 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Default
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Don't waste more of the developing teams time having to program an implement auction houses (it does take time, a lot of it) when they could instead be adding content so that they may actually make the game fun and draw in subscribers?


I understand time is a precious commodity given the dev team's circumstances, but let's be reasonable about one thing: programming an AH is a pretty simple task. Consider how quickly one was added into XI at its beginning. If they put all their resources into it they could probably have one done in a day or two and that would help alleviate many of the complaints from those who want it.
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#8 Jan 05 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Wloire wrote:
Or you could even use your brain and understand that the system in the game right now is pretty much an auction house, but instead of having to run home to your Mog House to pick up the item you run through the ward.


You played FFXI... right?

...because that's not how the Auction House worked. >_>
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#9 Jan 05 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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We don't need an auction house, what we need is a giant gathering city where everybody goes. One big awesome city to sell everything so you don't have to run around to three other cities. I'll wait for that.
#10 Jan 05 2011 at 12:24 PM Rating: Default
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Wloire wrote:
Or you could even use your brain and understand that the system in the game right now is pretty much an auction house, but instead of having to run home to your Mog House to pick up the item you run through the ward. It's a simple simple system that serves its purpose perfectly.

Don't waste more of the developing teams time having to program an implement auction houses (it does take time, a lot of it) when they could instead be adding content so that they may actually make the game fun and draw in subscribers?


Exactly this... I would rate you up if I could
#11 Jan 05 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Oinari wrote:
We don't need an auction house, what we need is a giant gathering city where everybody goes. One big awesome city to sell everything so you don't have to run around to three other cities. I'll wait for that.

There is one, it's just not open yet.
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#12 Jan 05 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Wloire wrote:
Or you could even use your brain and understand that the system in the game right now is pretty much an auction house, but instead of having to run home to your Mog House to pick up the item you run through the ward.


You played FFXI... right?

...because that's not how the Auction House worked. >_>


hehe...that made me chuckle.

SE will end up doing what the majority of the players want. They really don't have a choice.
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#13 Jan 05 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Simool wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Wloire wrote:
Or you could even use your brain and understand that the system in the game right now is pretty much an auction house, but instead of having to run home to your Mog House to pick up the item you run through the ward.


You played FFXI... right?

...because that's not how the Auction House worked. >_>


hehe...that made me chuckle.

SE will end up doing what the majority of the players want. They really don't have a choice.


Lets just hope the majority of players keep their head open and embrace the wards for how innovative they are. The AH would be a step in the wrong direction.
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#14 Jan 05 2011 at 12:59 PM Rating: Default
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Quote:
Don't waste more of the developing teams time having to program an implement auction houses (it does take time, a lot of it) when they could instead be adding content so that they may actually make the game fun and draw in subscribers?


I understand time is a precious commodity given the dev team's circumstances, but let's be reasonable about one thing: programming an AH is a pretty simple task. Consider how quickly one was added into XI at its beginning. If they put all their resources into it they could probably have one done in a day or two and that would help alleviate many of the complaints from those who want it.


You have never programmed I assume?

An AH is not a simple task that can be implemented in a day or two. The coding itself might take a day if they steal another games code and convert it (assuming the games are using similar languages), but its much more likely they would program it from scratch, which would cost many days depending on the skill of the team and number of people designated to the task.

Next they have to add on to the map in each city a new location for an Auction House, which won't be easy for Uldah especially considering how cramped it is. They have to then design the models for the auction house, which won't take a day unless you don't mind them using MSpaint?

All in all it will take a week to two weeks of valuable development time depending on how many people are assigned to the task. And whats the point? We have what is essentially an auction house!

edit: Did I mention bug testing? Yea they have to bug test as well before they can release an AH.
Quote:
You played FFXI... right?

...because that's not how the Auction House worked. >_>


Oh shi- yea I played since NA launch. Why do I remember having to grab my items from the mail? Did they change it at some point? Now I feel like an idiot :(. Point still stands though.


Edited, Jan 5th 2011 2:17pm by Wloire
#15 Jan 05 2011 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Quote:
Don't waste more of the developing teams time having to program an implement auction houses (it does take time, a lot of it) when they could instead be adding content so that they may actually make the game fun and draw in subscribers?


I understand time is a precious commodity given the dev team's circumstances, but let's be reasonable about one thing: programming an AH is a pretty simple task. Consider how quickly one was added into XI at its beginning. If they put all their resources into it they could probably have one done in a day or two and that would help alleviate many of the complaints from those who want it.

And why would we want them to spend resources making an Auction House when we already have a functional marketplace, when they could be spending their resources on something a billion times more useful, like game content?
#16 Jan 05 2011 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Quote:
Don't waste more of the developing teams time having to program an implement auction houses (it does take time, a lot of it) when they could instead be adding content so that they may actually make the game fun and draw in subscribers?


I understand time is a precious commodity given the dev team's circumstances, but let's be reasonable about one thing: programming an AH is a pretty simple task. Consider how quickly one was added into XI at its beginning. If they put all their resources into it they could probably have one done in a day or two and that would help alleviate many of the complaints from those who want it.


You obviously aren't a programmer or currently working in the games industry... If you think an auction house can be "whipped up" in a day or two, then you're dreaming.

Now if an AH was already present, and they had to alter the functionality slightly, sure, maybe a day or two bug fix. But create a feature from scratch (which is pretty much what they would have to do considering what is present it not an AH at all, just a crazy hybrid)? You MUST be joking. Game programmers aren't magicians, and neither are you.
#17 Jan 05 2011 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
I played FFXI, and there is nothing remotely "Auction House-y" about the Market Ward. I will give SE props...the item search does speed up search time for items...BUT people are still not put things up for sale in the proper ward for, well, whatever reason (it really doesn't matter). I still cant buy an item at a competitive price, because of the scarcity of multiple sellers in the same location (i.e. sheepskin, I'm lucky to find one person selling in the tanners ward, let alone at a reasonable price...)

As a crafter, I need to be able to find items at a competitive price, and in a timely fashion. As it is, any gil I make is nearly useless since I have to farm my own mats to rank up. If only I could have a system in which I could collectively find every person in the world selling a particular item in one location...something the Market Ward can never do. Due to the extra "zones" mapped out in the city but in accessible, I am already assuming the eventual release of a "Mog House" and once that is in place the need for my retainer to act as my mule will be gone (assuming the introduction of somekind of "Mog Safe") Once that is the case there will be no need for me to have some random npcs clogging up the MWs selling a whopping 10 items restricted to one searchable area for the item type I want to sell (assuming I am not a farmer or gatherer and have numerous types of items that cant be classified into one ward).

Let's face it, how many people are going to sell only the proper item in the proper ward and not sell anything else until those items are gone so they can go back and move thier bazaar-bot? Not, and I believe not many others. THe game requires specialization for MW efficiency, yet the game forces you to diversify to have fun and be efficient in Ranking Up, etc. THis kind of contradiction destroys the very foundation for the MW system. THe only way to rectify this is placing an outright ban of item selling outside of the "niche" the particular ward caters to, or scrapping the whole thing for a previously used system, that despite it's flaws, satiated the massive majority of players of FFXI. Will undercutting **** me off at some point? Sure. But I'd rather be stuck with a slim profit margin, and an easier concept of ranking up, then a dead economy and being forced to supply all of my own materials.

I have been regularly spending what gil I do make on buying everything I can from NPCs at a rediculous price just due to the lack of supply of everything and finally being fed up about being held back due to the fact that I am forced to do everything myself.

Is it possible to salvage the MW into a viable, and stable system? Yes. But imho I think it would be less work on the Dev Team to scrap it (or leave it there) and add in a tried-and-true Auction House.

Edit: A couple of additional things I forgot to add...Having to waste anima hoping from city to city to search all three seperate wards is also a pain and a timesink. THe reduction of NPC prices would in essence help relieve some tension on Rare finds in the MW. Also Perhaps implementing the Auction House as a built-in feature accessed through your retainer (or Mog House, if/when implemented) could in essence save a lot of time in the actual programming (due to the fact that...hey we dont have to make visuals!!! Gogo shortcuts!

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 2:25pm by StateAlchemist2
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#18 Jan 05 2011 at 1:22 PM Rating: Default
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I like SE games because they're innovative and different.

Leave the Market Wards. Leave the repair system. Leave the SP system (buff it for parties, I actually wish they'd stayed with the random but fixed it).

You strip out all the uniqueness they are trying to add, you have another clone of what is popular on the market. And we all know if you try to clone the WoW model, you're going to lose.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 2:22pm by tylerbee
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#19 Jan 05 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
If this was a WoW clone, I'd quit. Now on the other hand...using a stable previously used idea/system from FFXI isn't out of the question. Nothing is wrong with using something they used before because it worked. It's not like having a FFXI AH will kill the "uniqueness" or "originality" of this game. Market Wards are cool. But cool just isn't getting the job done.
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#20 Jan 05 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
I still cant buy an item at a competitive price, because of the scarcity of multiple sellers in the same location (i.e. sheepskin, I'm lucky to find one person selling in the tanners ward, let alone at a reasonable price...)

As a crafter, I need to be able to find items at a competitive price, and in a timely fashion. As it is, any gil I make is nearly useless since I have to farm my own mats to rank up. If only I could have a system in which I could collectively find every person in the world selling a particular item in one location...something the Market Ward can never do. Due to the extra "zones" mapped out in the city but in accessible, I am already assuming the eventual release of a "Mog House" and once that is in place the need for my retainer to act as my mule will be gone (assuming the introduction of somekind of "Mog Safe") Once that is the case there will be no need for me to have some random npcs clogging up the MWs selling a whopping 10 items restricted to one searchable area for the item type I want to sell (assuming I am not a farmer or gatherer and have numerous types of items that cant be classified into one ward).



Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you think that the system only restricts you from comparing goods to find the best price. If it affects you while buying components it affects anyone buying the goods you sell. As long as you are selling at the same price or lower than anyone else selling the same goods in the same city, you will make the sale.

And guess what!

If you are producing a rare product no one else in that city sells YOU get to decide the price, and if your intelligent you'll be sure to make a profit. No AH history to tell people you are gouging them. Even better, no AH history to help 1 gil price cutters take advantage of you! Shock and Awe. This system is actually better than an AH!

As a crafter you need to understand that the Market Wards work in your favor. As a customer it doesn't help me so much.

The game is based heavily on crafting, as such their needs to be a market that supports crafter's.
#21 Jan 05 2011 at 1:38 PM Rating: Default
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
If this was a WoW clone, I'd quit. Now on the other hand...using a stable previously used idea/system from FFXI isn't out of the question. Nothing is wrong with using something they used before because it worked. It's not like having a FFXI AH will kill the "uniqueness" or "originality" of this game. Market Wards are cool. But cool just isn't getting the job done.


Okay, so your opinion is that an AH works, I don't think it does and that behind the scenes is controlled by RMT. I can't think of how it works better than the wards except that the wards are more convenient for the buyer. If we're taking that train of thought, questing to level up ala WoW is more convienient than grinding mobs in my opinion. Does that mean we should add questing to level up into the game? Or are we only allowed to add features from FFXI that we believe worked?

Its a delicate subject, no doubt. I really do hope they retain their originality, the MMO market is stale and small changes and features like the Market Wards is the only way forward.

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#22 Jan 05 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
From a seller's stand-point I can see how a MW system could be better in some cases. You can potentially make more money per item due to the lack of constant undercutting. However, at the same time your forced to specialize, restricting sales in other aspects. In essence your cutting off your nose to spite your face. I'd rather make 50% less per item and sell 10x more, then make 2x more per item and sell 10x less. Companies like Coca~Cola aren't successful because they sell Coke. They have numerous subsidiaries and shell companies that do different things. Warner Buffet is such a successful businessman because he is so diversified in the market. Specialization is a thing of he past, and WILL restrict a global economy. Undercutting may be "unethical" but it is the way of business, and promotes diversification(Selling many types of items in one location, i.e. Wal-Mart), economic growth(The expansion of the over all consumer group and an increase in disposable income), and competitive-growth(An improvement in resource allocation by competitors leading to a more efficient way of feeding the demand for goods).
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#23 Jan 05 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Default
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You obviously aren't a programmer or currently working in the games industry... If you think an auction house can be "whipped up" in a day or two, then you're dreaming.

Now if an AH was already present, and they had to alter the functionality slightly, sure, maybe a day or two bug fix. But create a feature from scratch (which is pretty much what they would have to do considering what is present it not an AH at all, just a crazy hybrid)? You MUST be joking. Game programmers aren't magicians, and neither are you.


It's funny that you talk like you're a game programmer, when you're probably not, but even if you are you're a) being rude (shocker) and b) missing the point. An AH is something that the company has experience with programming. They have a ton of resources they can throw at it to code it for XIV. Programming can take time and skill yes, but consider that really all this is is a database type feature with the ability to buy and sell items.

It's your perception of simple things being 'long and hard to do' that ultimately lowers expectations for this game. This is really a basic feature that many MMOs have managed to put in place in a relatively short period of time. Perhaps a day or two is an exaggeration, but a couple weeks? Certainly not. XI's development history is evidence of this, and it's from the SAME COMPANY.

Yes, the wards work. Many of us would still rather an AH. Yes, M-A-N-Y. You don't want it, you don't have to use it, but that doesn't negate a desire for it.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 1:58pm by Onionthiefx
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#24 Jan 05 2011 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Quote:
You obviously aren't a programmer or currently working in the games industry... If you think an auction house can be "whipped up" in a day or two, then you're dreaming.

Now if an AH was already present, and they had to alter the functionality slightly, sure, maybe a day or two bug fix. But create a feature from scratch (which is pretty much what they would have to do considering what is present it not an AH at all, just a crazy hybrid)? You MUST be joking. Game programmers aren't magicians, and neither are you.


It's funny that you talk like you're a game programmer, when you're probably not, but even if you are you're a) being rude (shocker) and b) missing the point. An AH is something that the company has experience with programming. They have a ton of resources they can throw at it to code it for XIV. Programming can take time and skill yes, but consider that really all this is is a database type feature with the ability to buy and sell items.

It's your perception of simple things being 'long and hard to do' that ultimately lowers expectations for this game. This is really a basic feature that many MMOs have managed to put in place in a relatively short period of time. Perhaps a day or two is an exaggeration, but a couple weeks? Certainly not. XI's development history is evidence of this, and it's from the SAME COMPANY.



no he is correct with the couple weeks

cuz you dont just code it
you then have to test it, make sure it wont break the game, make sure it works properly period

everything works this way, everything that gets "added" has to go through a testing process and thats going to take time in itself too, along with debugging it and retesting til it works
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#25 Jan 05 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Get over it there will be no AH the market system works just fine, stop beating a dead horse.
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#26 Jan 05 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
And why would we want them to spend resources making an Auction House when we already have a functional marketplace, when they could be spending their resources on something a billion times more useful, like game content?


I'll acquiesce that perhaps it doesn't need to be prioritized, but people still want it. It's really a matter of what the recent poll says, findings which even you yourself are not yet privy to.
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#27 Jan 05 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

no he is correct with the couple weeks

cuz you dont just code it
you then have to test it, make sure it wont break the game, make sure it works properly period

everything works this way, everything that gets "added" has to go through a testing process and thats going to take time in itself too, along with debugging it and retesting til it works


People will continue to argue because they'd rather have content first. Logic really doesn't matter.
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#28 Jan 05 2011 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Quote:

no he is correct with the couple weeks

cuz you dont just code it
you then have to test it, make sure it wont break the game, make sure it works properly period

everything works this way, everything that gets "added" has to go through a testing process and thats going to take time in itself too, along with debugging it and retesting til it works


People will continue to argue because they'd rather have content first. Logic really doesn't matter.


id rather have content too

1 thing i dont think people realize about the poll, i believe very strongly that EVERYTHING in that poll will be added, they were just looking for an opinion on what to prioritize for players

so an AH will come, content will come, but which do we want first? honestly, more content is the answer(but content is ALWAYS the answer) since you will always want more to do
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#29 Jan 05 2011 at 2:06 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
id rather have content too

1 thing i dont think people realize about the poll, i believe very strongly that EVERYTHING in that poll will be added, they were just looking for an opinion on what to prioritize for players

so an AH will come, content will come, but which do we want first? honestly, more content is the answer(but content is ALWAYS the answer) since you will always want more to do


I'm hoping you're right about the first part. As for the second, it's a matter of things to do vs. utility. I hope they do publish the survey results. Anyone know when the poll closes?
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#30 Jan 05 2011 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
From a seller's stand-point I can see how a MW system could be better in some cases. You can potentially make more money per item due to the lack of constant undercutting. However, at the same time your forced to specialize, restricting sales in other aspects. In essence your cutting off your nose to spite your face. I'd rather make 50% less per item and sell 10x more, then make 2x more per item and sell 10x less. Companies like Coca~Cola aren't successful because they sell Coke. They have numerous subsidiaries and shell companies that do different things. Warner Buffet is such a successful businessman because he is so diversified in the market. Specialization is a thing of he past, and WILL restrict a global economy. Undercutting may be "unethical" but it is the way of business, and promotes diversification(Selling many types of items in one location, i.e. Wal-Mart), economic growth(The expansion of the over all consumer group and an increase in disposable income), and competitive-growth(An improvement in resource allocation by competitors leading to a more efficient way of feeding the demand for goods).


Eorzea can't be treated as a Global market. Undercutting in real life is restricted in such way that can't be accomplished in a videogame. Likewise competitive growth cannot be accomplished in the game as all resources may spawn infinitly with a random chance in easily accessible areas.

There are hundreds of reasons the MMO economy can't be treated as realistically as you hope for, but I'm not an economist, so I probably say something stupid. Even extensively fleshed out MMO markets like that found in EVE online cannot represent a real world market adequately simply because the people running the market are playing a game and can't be trusted to make sound decisions.

In real life a manufacturer is going to do whatever they can not to sell a product below cost. In game multiple people receiving leve-quest gear or working DoL jobs, might not know or care about the value of their object, as such they will sell it off at a price a crafter cannot afford.

Quote:
It's funny that you talk like you're a game programmer, when you're probably not, but even if you are you're a) being rude (shocker) and b) missing the point. An AH is something that the company has experience with programming. They have a ton of resources they can throw at it to code it for XIV. Programming can take time and skill yes, but consider that really all this is is a database type feature with the ability to buy and sell items.

It's your perception of simple things being 'long and hard to do' that ultimately lowers expectations for this game. This is really a basic feature that many MMOs have managed to put in place in a relatively short period of time. Perhaps a day or two is an exaggeration, but a couple weeks? Certainly not. XI's development history is evidence of this, and it's from the SAME COMPANY.

Yes, the wards work. Many of us would still rather an AH. Yes, M-A-N-Y. You don't want it, you don't have to use it, but that doesn't negate a desire for it.


I spent two years of University in CompSci. I have an appreciation you seem to be lacking. Just because this is the same "team" that did FFXI doesn't mean they are capable of whipping up an AH post haste. The man who designed the AH could be long gone, and most importantly it's been, what, nine years since they implemented an AH in FFXI?

Looking at a process from above is easy to do. "Oh yea its just a simple algorithm right?". Depending on the language they are using in contrast to FFXI, it could be a completely different situation. Either way, whether you think we are being rude or not, your assertions are simply ignorant. SE's resources are not limitless. If they take the time to build an AH then we are losing valuable quests, storyline, hamlet defense etc.

Too Long, Didn't Read version: Just because they put together an AH almost a decade ago in a completely different game, most likely with different developers, doesn't mean it would be easy-peasy, to do today.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 3:23pm by Wloire

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 3:27pm by Wloire
#31 Jan 05 2011 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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as much as i wanted an AH at the start, i dont see the need for it at this time.

search item is doing fine at the moment and the items for sail can be found easy, i know that sometimes you end up visiting all cities to get what you want, but how many times did this happen?

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#32 Jan 05 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Default
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I think the MW would work only if it showed what the items going for in the seach list instead of waisting time going back and forth to see how much they are on ea. retainer be for finding one thats cheap. And as a gather i have to many items to place on a MW, so how would i go about to sell what i have? put my retainer in one ward to sell 3 items then move it to another to sell 4 more? its a waist of my time to be moving my retainer thru MW to sell what i have, so for me a AH would be better, unless they put in a MW that works for gathered items.
#33 Jan 05 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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And here I was expecting to see a link to an internet petition signed by "I.C. Wiener" and "Sephiroth77x7" and "SE AUCTION HOUSE NOW" and "lol *****" and to point out why not only are Internet petitions worthless and a waste of time, they... well... I guess that about sums it up.
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#34 Jan 05 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Petitions seldom work, if ever.
#35 Jan 05 2011 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Yes, the wards work. Many of us would still rather an AH. Yes, M-A-N-Y. You don't want it, you don't have to use it, but that doesn't negate a desire for it.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 1:58pm by Onionthiefx

By that same token, I'm willing to bet that more people want content rather than an AH right now, so what's your point?
#36 Jan 05 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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SoumaKyou wrote:
Onionthiefx wrote:
Yes, the wards work. Many of us would still rather an AH. Yes, M-A-N-Y. You don't want it, you don't have to use it, but that doesn't negate a desire for it.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 1:58pm by Onionthiefx

By that same token, I'm willing to bet that more people want content rather than an AH right now, so what's your point?


Yeah, the ward system works fine for me.

Lack of content? Not so much...
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#37 Jan 05 2011 at 3:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hate the market wards more than most people. But yes they're fine for now, and the least of the short term goals I feel the dev's should be working on.
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#38 Jan 05 2011 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
4 posts
As badly as we need an AH, we need content even more.
#39 Jan 05 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
I too would like more content, however, content will always be added, and AH will only be added once. Tbh I think it makes more since to adjust the fundamentals before piling on the content to complicate the implementation of a whole new economic system. For example, (and I do not know why they even did this...) removing everything but NQ and +1 items. (Maybe keeping a few +2 +3 depending on what it is...) There is no real reason for having more than two types of any one item. (They already partially did this.) And more content means more items (almost always). I think it would be good to streamline the overly massive item base. Remove a bunch of garbage that no one uses/makes/wants/needs toss in the AH then bring on the content. They have hinted at MAJOR changes to the fundamentals of the game...I can't really say I would be wishing new content before,during, or immediately after such changes. Personally I think adjusting Hasty Hand so that it succeeds at the same % rate of using standard synthesis everytime with no abilities activated with 1 quality and 0% chance for HQing would be good. Basically a 1-touch synthesis for skilling up on a medium difficulty synthesis. Also changing the Batle System to make strategy more necessary in PTs (every job seems to just be spam dmg or spam cures...where is the diversity?) Fix the Skillchain system to be automatic and more useful. All these fundamental things could be changed, I don't know what they will do though.

So know that all that could change, adding more content could complicate the process even more. Let them make this game what it should have been first, (Fix the underlying problems first) then add the content, so that when they do add it, all my other complaints are satisfied and I can enjoy the new content to the fullest.

Let's face it, there isn't much they could add at this point that could make the game any better...we would just have more complaints about the new content because of the problems we already know about.

Sorry I got a lil' side-tracked, but my point was basically fix the game (i.e. add AH) then expand the game. THeres no use in having more screwed up stuff to do. :)
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#40 Jan 05 2011 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Indeed. The market wards are not as good as what a proper AH could be, but they are good enough for now as a band-aid fix while they add in other things. Come back to it later when the rest of the game is fixed.

The best market system in teh world doesn't mean jack if no one is buying or selling anything (because no one is playing).
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#41 Jan 05 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Decent
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Indeed. The market wards are not as good as what a proper AH could be, but they are good enough for now as a band-aid fix while they add in other things. Come back to it later when the rest of the game is fixed.

The best market system in teh world doesn't mean jack if no one is buying or selling anything (because no one is playing).


^This. YOu said it exactly the way I was thinking it, but for some reason couldn't just outright say it. If they are going to mess with the basics, they need to finsh messing with them. THen add the "content" that will polish off the game (i.e. AH, Chocobo, Airship), then add the COntent (i.e. New Areas, Storylines, etc..)
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#42 Jan 05 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
What is going to be great is when SE does add this oh so precious auction house and we get to come to these forums and hear all these same people complain about how it has "broken" the game. The fact is there is no pleasing everyone and people should just play the game for what it offers and what is coming or go play something else.

Personally, the market wards work wondefully for me. I have yet to not find what I need, though I may have to wait a day or two for it to pop up. (Oh my god!!...you mean I can't have what I want right now, immediately!??)

My opinion is the AH will solve nothing..
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#43 Jan 05 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I did not mean to sound rude in my reply earlier, so if I did, I apologize.

I only meant to bring a reality-check to others that may not know what kind of things happen in the development environment. Vedis, as well as one other person, have given more correct descriptions of the kinds of things that slows down developers. Let me give you a general idea of what a typical day at my job is like:

10:00AM - Get to work, grab some coffee, check my e-mail, and check forums/facebook really quick.
10:30AM - Get into the zone and start working on my tasks for the day.
11:30AM - Uh oh, first meeting of day: Standup. Meet with other developers, artists, and SOMETIMES testers to go over progress since yesterday; basically meet as a team.
11:45AM - Lunch time. Usually takes about an hour or less, depending on what the tasks are at hand.
12:30PM - Resume working on tasks. About ready to finish (insert game related task here like enemy defense state, player input system, asset pipeline tools, etc.)
2:30PM - Interrupted for team meeting regarding new design decisions that come in, effectively changing the work flow
3:30PM - Sit back and re-design the code from the ground up for what I was working on because design came down and f'd it all up.
4:00PM - After restructuring, start to rework the code to prep for the new design decision
5:00PM - Start actually creating new code to compensate for the new decisions that were made
7:00PM - Finished with first pass of finished code module, and go home

And this is a non-crunch day.

The next day, without all kinds of time stamps, may go something like this:

Arrive to work to find out that you have to move on to another task while testing tests your module. You get interrupted shortly after lunch to find out that 1 or more test cases failed because you were rushed to get your work done, and you didn't think of all the edge cases. Spend the rest of the day fixing the bugs and issues, and resubmit for a second pass through testing. This can go on for several days for a particular feature until it is completed. Keep in mind that the larger the feature, the more modules have to be created, and the more testing has to be done to try and break it. THIS is why updates don't happen consistently over at SE.... they are trying, but it's just very hard to do it so fast, especially considering they aren't making any money off of this game yet and can't afford to expand the team, only swap out people for new people.

I hope this gives some FFXIV players some insight as to how the game industry works. It's a lot of hoops we have to jump through, but not because we are bad programmers, but because we have to juggle multiple things at once, change our code to meet the needs of the game designers, and meet deadlines that simply don't give us enough rest to ensure quality work is done. Regardless of the state of FFXIV, I give them a lot of props for churning out the December changes as fast as they did. They must seriously be living on Red Bull and Cocaine.


Edited, Jan 5th 2011 4:40pm by PalidorCarbuncle
#44 Jan 05 2011 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Indeed. The market wards are not as good as what a proper AH could be, but they are good enough for now as a band-aid fix while they add in other things. Come back to it later when the rest of the game is fixed.

The best market system in teh world doesn't mean jack if no one is buying or selling anything (because no one is playing).


^This. YOu said it exactly the way I was thinking it, but for some reason couldn't just outright say it. If they are going to mess with the basics, they need to finsh messing with them. THen add the "content" that will polish off the game (i.e. AH, Chocobo, Airship), then add the COntent (i.e. New Areas, Storylines, etc..)


You didn't read his post...

He was saying we shouldn't implement an AH until content is in the game. If theres no content we are going to start hemorrhaging players again and we won't be able to grab new ones. We need content now. The AH is not fun and its not needed. If it's as easy as you think it is to implement now (it's not) then it will be just as easy then.

Players are completely capable of selling and buying goods with the current system. They don't have enough stuff to do otherwise.

Edited, Jan 5th 2011 7:58pm by Wloire
#45 Jan 06 2011 at 4:18 AM Rating: Decent
Wloire wrote:
Players are completely capable of selling and buying goods with the current system. They don't have enough stuff to do otherwise.


Players are completely capable of selling and buying goods with no Market Ward system at all, it's called shout and trade...doesn't mean people want to. Basically your saying to ignore the fact that Crafting is a main job just like DoW/M and give more stuff for them to do and in the mean time the crafting community can continue to suffer. I'm sure lots of crafters out there are frustrated with trying to track down ingredients that just don't get sold due to the type of system in place. If there was an AH a lot of items you'd normally NPC, would start hitting the AH, just because an AH promotes a MUCH higher turnover rate for goods sold. When you reduce the time it takes a buyer to find what he wants, you reduce the time it takes to sell an item, allowing "less worthwhile" products to become "worthwhile" even if only for the reason of 'I have nothing else to list...might as well put up this item...'

But nothing says we have to choose between the two...
the simplest solution imo would be throw the AH on with some content at the same time and make everyone happy.
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#46 Jan 06 2011 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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I still think if an AH in introduced it should be limited to raw ingredients and crafting materials. There can be an AH window or NPC in each ward. Finished items would still have to be sold via retainers.

This is the happy medium, no? People can unload misc. drops they get in the field quickly. Crafters can easily buy/sell crafting components. Items that are typically plagued by undercutting are still only sold via retainers. With the search feature and better organized wards it's almost identical to WoW style AHs, only instead of running to your mail box, you have to run to the retainers.
#47 Jan 06 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:

no he is correct with the couple weeks

cuz you dont just code it
you then have to test it, make sure it wont break the game, make sure it works properly period

everything works this way, everything that gets "added" has to go through a testing process and thats going to take time in itself too, along with debugging it and retesting til it works

Just chiming in that I test software for a living, and testing something like an AH would probably take a week at least.

In addition, it would be much easier for SE to add something to the search window that tells you what ward items are in that are not in the correct ward.

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 10:31am by Jefro420
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#48 Jan 06 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Jefro420 wrote:

Just chiming in that I test software for a living, and testing something like an AH would probably take a week at least.

I can't say that I test software for a living, but I do test community software and debug some code myself. I work mostly with ActionScript 3.0, but I've worked with Visual Basic, Java, and C++ in the past.

Now, I understand that programming an AH, testing it, and implementing it could take a couple weeks with all the development going on, but I'm sure that SE has crunch 'squads' for priority tasks. I'm pretty sure that with some coffee, brain power, and two or three testers at the helm, the development team could cut that span of weeks down to as little as 3 or 4 days. I mean, all they are doing is a simple database query and making entry changes based on purchases, bids, and selling. Not exactly as server heavy as loading 30+ retainers into a small space, and definitely more user-friendly.

Jefro420 wrote:

In addition, it would be much easier for SE to add something to the search window that tells you what ward items are in that are not in the correct ward.

Why even have wards at all? Players aren't going to cut their specific wares down to one ward, and when SE starts charging for multiple retainers, players definitely won't pay to have a single retainer to place their product in the 'right' market. (I.E. a retainer for every ward.)
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#49 Jan 06 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow 40 plus replies in approx 2 days that's impressive. I started this subject. I'm pretty new to posting on forums but I can't believe how many personal attacks I already got. Do people actually talk like this to others in real life.
I didn't say I was technically minded so straight away I don't have a brain and a few people would rate me on this.
Thank you for all the genuine replies.

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 10:56am by SumoBear
#50 Jan 06 2011 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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800 posts
SumoBear wrote:
Wow 40 plus replies in approx 2 days that's impressive. I started this subject. I'm pretty new to posting on forums but I can't believe how many personal attacks I already got. Do people actually talk like this to others in real life.
I didn't say I was technically minded so straight away I don't have a brain and a few people would rate me on this.
Thank you for all the genuine replies.


Welcome to the internet. :)
#51 Jan 06 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Faladis wrote:

I can't say that I test software for a living, but I do test community software and debug some code myself. I work mostly with ActionScript 3.0, but I've worked with Visual Basic, Java, and C++ in the past.

Now, I understand that programming an AH, testing it, and implementing it could take a couple weeks with all the development going on, but I'm sure that SE has crunch 'squads' for priority tasks. I'm pretty sure that with some coffee, brain power, and two or three testers at the helm, the development team could cut that span of weeks down to as little as 3 or 4 days. I mean, all they are doing is a simple database query and making entry changes based on purchases, bids, and selling. Not exactly as server heavy as loading 30+ retainers into a small space, and definitely more user-friendly.


There's a lot that goes into testing something like that, consider all the item types, HQ items, different colored gear, any item search that gets created, price history, disaster recovery secarios... the list goes on. If there are problems, in quite a few cases, the testing/coding cycle would need to start over. I'm sticking with my week minimum estimate.

Faladis wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:

In addition, it would be much easier for SE to add something to the search window that tells you what ward items are in that are not in the correct ward.

Why even have wards at all? Players aren't going to cut their specific wares down to one ward, and when SE starts charging for multiple retainers, players definitely won't pay to have a single retainer to place their product in the 'right' market. (I.E. a retainer for every ward.)


This comes down to a complaint about the "wrong ward" tax. So lets look at that for a second. Is a few hundred gil tax, in the worst case, worth not selling in the wrong ward? Bear in mind that you can easily earn hundreds of thousands of gil in a single day, not selling anything at all, but just doing leves and behests. Yeah, it's a drop in the bucket. What needs to happen is that SE needs add an easy way to find the items that are in the wrong wards, problem solved.
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