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This game will fail.Follow

#102 Jan 07 2011 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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11,539 posts
Sephrick wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:


SE is taking a lot of steps towards opening up communication beyond what they had in XI. It's better than the one way communication of FFXI, but it's not quite a two way street yet. SE is showing us that they -are- listening, but I'd love to see them go just that one more step.

Do I think they will? No; I accept that this is probably an unreachable pipe dream. But a boy can dream, can't he?



Sadly, SE got nothing short of abused when they tried to post here on ZAM a few years back on the XI =10 forum. The account was instantly sub-defaulted and trolled into oblivion. I do think it would be neat for them to at least have a small forum that was heavily moderated where folks could post their suggestions and feedback. Though, from a business stand point I can understand just lurking fansites instead. One less way for them to hurt someones feelings.

It would be nice if ZAM gave SE a few unratable accounts, but that still wouldn't control the trolling.
Edited, Jan 7th 2011 11:55pm by Sephrick


I remember it; I was there when it happened. It was a **** shame. You ask people to talk to you and they do and then you bite their head off. It's ridiculous.

That's why I suggested they host their own forums. No rating, and they can moderate it as strictly as they like. If that means deleting a ton of troll posts then so be it.
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Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
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#103 Jan 07 2011 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
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82 posts
knarcotic wrote:
Elswick78 wrote:
I am in no way opposed to criticism of a game that is struggling. Nor am I opposed to productive discussion about what direction things could head in order to realize a general improvement in the game. That being said, I think we as forum posters have a rather over-inflated opinion of ourselves and the credence which SE places in our postings. Somehow in our own minds we twisted the change of management at SE and their plans for a new direction for the game into vindication for all the ranting, raving, ********* moaning, and "frothing at the mouth" that was done in the months preceding the change. "See, SE is changing the we game!!! We did that!!! ***** moar guys!!! They're hearing us!!!" I'm sorry, but "This game sux. I quit" did not generate a management overhaul at Square Enix headquarters. What did generate it, however, was well thought out, properly-constructed feedback submitted through the proper channels. Let's not lie to ourselves. Complaining about this, that, or the other in the general forums will do nothing but frustrate us and each other. Proper feedback, however, will drive the game to a point where it is enjoyable by all for years to come. :)


You are aware that thems fightin' words. :)


Lol. I know. And I should have known better than to stick my nose into someone else's fight. But I do agree, at least in part, with the SPIRIT of what the OP was trying to say. I believe he was trying to point out that large doses of negativity really aren't that beneficial, either to the progress of this game's development, or for life in general for that matter. The forums can be a bit much at times. But there is alot of good here too. There is ALWAYS a silver lining to the cloud. Sometimes looking at that silver lining, rather than the dark stormcloud itself, can provide a breath of fresh air on occasion. The OP simply pointed this out while angry, and nothing good ever comes of speaking when we're angry, be that anger justified or not.

(If he's right, this post will soon be at decent or default. Ready, GO!!! lol)
#104 Jan 07 2011 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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435 posts
knarcotic wrote:
Actually, I found the WoW forums helpful. Players aren't
discouraged from trying to help others with the game.
DoctorMog is saying, and I, too, lean in the direction,
that your negativity doesn't speak for all--that positive
threads shouldn't be discouraged. If they are, are you
and the other negative posters helping make prospective
players' minds up for them?


What negativity? Do you see me making "OMG this game is dieing!" threads?

I created a thread recently about how I think the ward system is working well enough that I don't see a need for an AH. I was promptly flamed into oblivion.

There are definitely things about this game that need improvement, but it does have its good points which is why I'm still playing.

Had I truly believed the game was without hope, I'd have been gone a while ago.


Thayos wrote:
I understand Dr. Mog's points, and I can't help but agree, to a certain extent. The concept that the game's forum communities (not just ZAM) can drag the game down via short-sightedness and hostility is a real, legitimate threat to the game's well being. Granted, it's not the -only- reason the game could fail, but it certainly is a big one.

That's why I wrote that editorial awhile back, questioning whether Square Enix made the right move by allowing people to continue playing for free. My view on that topic has changed somewhat, now that SE is actually improving the game... but I have to wonder... how much better would we -feel- about the game if all the Negative Nancys weren't allowed to hang out and play for free? Certainly, more of these people who only have bad things to say would have moved onto other games by now... on the downside, that means fewer potential subs for FFXIV... on the bright side, that would mean the rest of us wouldn't have to put up with the constant flow of negativity, even when posters such as Dr. Mog go out of their way to try to be helpful.


I spent years on the WoW forums and I can safely say that it was the largest most terrifying troll festival I have ever seen and yet WoW has more than survived it. Some of the bile I saw there was unbelievable (you should've seen what they used to say about Blizzard in regards to the state of paladins back then...WOW).

This? This is NOTHING. I haven't seen a post threatening to rape/kill/eat any of the development team's family yet. Sorry, but as far as trolls and flame go, this forum is amateur hour.

That said, the free trial period is necessary. SE wants people to be playing this game, no matter how much it costs in bandwidth, because they know for a fact that a lot of players are staying subbed to see if the game improves whereas they'd be gone in a heartbeat were they already charging money.

My issue in the other thread wasn't with Dr. Mog trying to be helpful, but it was him being rude, condescending, dismissive of the opinions of others and finally going into straight-up insult by calling people who disagreed with him "morons" and "dense". When they argued that the current system is flawed, he told them they were stupid and just didn't understand how it works and that our ideas to change it were unwarranted.

I think new players will understand that there will always be complainers who complain, but someone claiming to be helpful and yet also being condescending and rude would be far more likely to frighten me away from a game than people complaining.

Edited, Jan 8th 2011 2:10am by TheRealDestian
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#105 Jan 07 2011 at 11:35 PM Rating: Good
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2,202 posts
BushwicktheBlack wrote:
I must respectfully disagree Dr. Mog.

This game will not fail, in fact I think it's going to be the next big MMO. If the numbers are accurate and 600,000 people bought the game and now 60 to 100,000 are still playing it, I feel that is a strong indication that the game will be a massive success, contrary to what numbers like that may indicate on the surface.

The people who found fault with the game were very vocal about it, and they have stopped playing and moved on. The negative wave of press and message board hate has also reached its peak and faded out.

The people still playing the game are the ones who will continue to be vocal now and in the coming months leading up to the ps3 launch, which represents the console gaming market that absolutley dwarfs its PC counterpart in potential subscriptions(not many are willing to spend on upgrading, Ps3 owners have no such snag). Anyone who is still playing is most likely a White Knight for the game. I know I am, I love this game and I only see potential. The supporters of the game will outlast and have more of an effect on success than any remaining naysayers "Alternative Media" or otherwise. Ours is the voice that will be heard going forward, not the haters.

Consider the ease of getting the game installed and running on a Ps3 compared to the wide scale nightmare that so many unfortunate underpowered PC owners apparently endured. Buy the game, install, update, play.

This game was designed from the ground up for the Ps3, not PC, and PC paid the price of being the Final Beta testers.

To be an OG pimp-like character in the game upon Ps3 release is a small price to pay, I suppose.

Now cough it up, and love it.


The game "Shipped" 600k, it never sold 600k, 60-100K subs means that more than half of the targeted audience either dint buy the game, or bough it and left, that's by no means a sign of that this MMO will be a HUGE Success, i can understand the hope that the PS3 launch will and could be a different story, but by the stance of SE so far, they have no idea as to where they will or want to take this game :)
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#106 Jan 07 2011 at 11:39 PM Rating: Good
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11,539 posts
Ostia wrote:
BushwicktheBlack wrote:
I must respectfully disagree Dr. Mog.

This game will not fail, in fact I think it's going to be the next big MMO. If the numbers are accurate and 600,000 people bought the game and now 60 to 100,000 are still playing it, I feel that is a strong indication that the game will be a massive success, contrary to what numbers like that may indicate on the surface.

The people who found fault with the game were very vocal about it, and they have stopped playing and moved on. The negative wave of press and message board hate has also reached its peak and faded out.

The people still playing the game are the ones who will continue to be vocal now and in the coming months leading up to the ps3 launch, which represents the console gaming market that absolutley dwarfs its PC counterpart in potential subscriptions(not many are willing to spend on upgrading, Ps3 owners have no such snag). Anyone who is still playing is most likely a White Knight for the game. I know I am, I love this game and I only see potential. The supporters of the game will outlast and have more of an effect on success than any remaining naysayers "Alternative Media" or otherwise. Ours is the voice that will be heard going forward, not the haters.

Consider the ease of getting the game installed and running on a Ps3 compared to the wide scale nightmare that so many unfortunate underpowered PC owners apparently endured. Buy the game, install, update, play.

This game was designed from the ground up for the Ps3, not PC, and PC paid the price of being the Final Beta testers.

To be an OG pimp-like character in the game upon Ps3 release is a small price to pay, I suppose.

Now cough it up, and love it.


The game "Shipped" 600k, it never sold 600k, 60-100K subs means that more than half of the targeted audience either dint buy the game, or bough it and left, that's by no means a sign of that this MMO will be a HUGE Success, i can understand the hope that the PS3 launch will and could be a different story, but by the stance of SE so far, they have no idea as to where they will or want to take this game :)


Yeah, if the game sold 600k copies (which it didn't) and only 60-100k are still playing, I'd say that's a pretty bad sign.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#107 Jan 08 2011 at 12:27 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,202 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Ostia wrote:
BushwicktheBlack wrote:
I must respectfully disagree Dr. Mog.

This game will not fail, in fact I think it's going to be the next big MMO. If the numbers are accurate and 600,000 people bought the game and now 60 to 100,000 are still playing it, I feel that is a strong indication that the game will be a massive success, contrary to what numbers like that may indicate on the surface.

The people who found fault with the game were very vocal about it, and they have stopped playing and moved on. The negative wave of press and message board hate has also reached its peak and faded out.

The people still playing the game are the ones who will continue to be vocal now and in the coming months leading up to the ps3 launch, which represents the console gaming market that absolutley dwarfs its PC counterpart in potential subscriptions(not many are willing to spend on upgrading, Ps3 owners have no such snag). Anyone who is still playing is most likely a White Knight for the game. I know I am, I love this game and I only see potential. The supporters of the game will outlast and have more of an effect on success than any remaining naysayers "Alternative Media" or otherwise. Ours is the voice that will be heard going forward, not the haters.

Consider the ease of getting the game installed and running on a Ps3 compared to the wide scale nightmare that so many unfortunate underpowered PC owners apparently endured. Buy the game, install, update, play.

This game was designed from the ground up for the Ps3, not PC, and PC paid the price of being the Final Beta testers.

To be an OG pimp-like character in the game upon Ps3 release is a small price to pay, I suppose.

Now cough it up, and love it.


The game "Shipped" 600k, it never sold 600k, 60-100K subs means that more than half of the targeted audience either dint buy the game, or bough it and left, that's by no means a sign of that this MMO will be a HUGE Success, i can understand the hope that the PS3 launch will and could be a different story, but by the stance of SE so far, they have no idea as to where they will or want to take this game :)


Yeah, if the game sold 600k copies (which it didn't) and only 60-100k are still playing, I'd say that's a pretty bad sign.


I agree, but the game sold around 350-400K, and only has a 60-100K player base, now looking at those numbers, it does not look bad, but fact of the meter is, that out of those 60-100K Subs, what % is playing because the game is still free ? what other % is still playing because they are hoping the game will improve in the coming weeks ? Now this is all subjective, but for argument's sake, lets say 25-35K are dedicated FF fans, and will stick to the game no meter what, those are not good numbers if the game fails to improve in an adequate form/time.

I would love to say the fact is, but i will say that it seems this game is on life support, and the longer it takes, the deeper in the hole the game will be, after all SE pretty much canceled the PS3 release until they improve the game, and by the last poll thingy, it seems they might even consider a NGE gameplan, wich to me means, they have no idea as to how turn this ship around.

This of course is my personal opinion :)
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