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Why FFIV will not die off anytime soonFollow

#1 Jan 09 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
21 posts
Ego and Credibility.

This game is someone's baby @ SE. ****, this game is all our babies for the people who have enjoyed the FF franchise throughout the years. That is one of the reasons why we don't want FFIV to fail. If it did, it would tarnish the credibility of SE and also make me never buy a FF franchise product with the confidence I once had.

I bought this game w/ blinders on, not reading reviews of the beta. I upgraded my system w/ the idea that this game was going to be amazing, or for the most part, fun enough to play from time to time, based on how much I enjoyed 11.

Sadly, this game is broken enough that I really can't see myself wanting to keep playing this game, even though I loved FFXI. Granted, they have made a few updates within the past few months to alleviate the biggest issues with the game, but that did not make the game more fun, just playable.

Just because a game is "playable", does not make the game fun. Where is the content for this game?

If anyone has seen "The Social Network", this game is lacking exclusivity. Also, where are the rewards or the sense of accomplishment in game?

Almost all the quests in this game are just something to do to gain some sp/items. I mean granted, sp helps you rank up, but other than that, you are not getting anything other than that. Opening up some faction quests? Where is the high lv content for the people who are completing their regional leves religiously? FFXI had quests that would (if you decided to complete them), help faction/lower npc costs/unlock other areas/unlock new quests/jobs/level cap/items/rare items/inventory space/etc. You would get a feeling of accomplishment by getting these benefits & have a sense of exclusivity, because not everyone would get these benefits if they didn't complete the quests, some repeatedly. The lack of NM monsters or special areas where you can only obtain rare items/factions/etc, also detracts from this aspect as well. I mean, even other less polished no name MMO's games have some of these basic elements. How could SE have overlooked this aspect?

This game also has not put in restrictions either, thus destroying the sense of exclusivity & accomplishment.

This is glaringly apparent in the crafting aspect. By allowing everyone access to ranking up all crafts, where is the sense of accomplishment. Example, a casual BSM has been ranking up these past few months, feeling like they are getting somewhere. You have the hardcore crafter, that has ranked up every other craft to that same level, or even close to it. Is it really worth crafting? Not to me, unless your bored or you really into crafting. I mean, in most games they restrict you to 1 or 2 crafts to restrict this from happening, they even require you to do certain quests or by reaching certain levels to further progress. SE destroys the feeling that something is/was being accomplished & exclusivity is thrown out the window by not implementing some of these restrictions. SE, did you forget how to make money like you did in FF11? That's right, you had to pay $$$ for an alt, to be able to reach the highest level of each craft. It also became harder & harder at higher levels to rank up, materials were harder to find. In FFIV... just do your local leves & with time, anyone can become a high level crafter.

SE also did not put in level restrictions on weapons/armor. This one of the factors that has hindered our in game economy. There is no need to to really upgrade armor/weapon where you can already wear your r25 items at lv 1. What other game out there allows this? This destroys our economy by hindering crafters to create low level gear for people who "might" want it, but don't really need. They will just grind out ranks on junk synths. They will then sell items that are craft only, for very large amounts (nothing wrong with this). It doesn't help that SE made making gil in this game so easy. From leves you can make 40-50k easily & factor in item rewards/shards/crystals you can sell. Making a 100k is fairly easy & can be done quickly. So, when you see that item in a retainer for 1.5mil. It seems like alot, but since you can start using it at any time, it looks a lot more appealing then trying to craft, even at that price. Especially when you factor in the time to rank up multiple crafts to be able to make that 1 item.

I mean honestly, SE dropped the ball on this game, from my perspective. The economy in this game is utterly broken. I mean, ok, so SE is trying to keep RMT out with no AH. That is just totally unrealistic, but SE has pretty much done this. How? By making gil so easy to make at the moment that gil is worthless. Want to buy/sell items, but no AH? Well give us wards that don't crash, that way people who do want to craft, buy/sell items, can. Ok, have mils of gill but don't know what to do with it? Give us ways to burn through it. Implement chocobos or another means of travel that is overpriced so they can blow some of this Gil. Or sell us some of those silly items like fireworks! A TIP for you casual gamers who have a hard time trying to keep up with the hardcore gamer in terms of Gil. When someone is looking for a teleport, don't be afraid to ask for 20-30k gil. The people who play all the time have barely any anima & enough Gil that they won't flinch at those prices. The only time they do, is when the reason they are going to another area, is to hand someone an item/material. SE, give us a MAIL SYSTEM. Yes you heard me, people who have not played this game yet. There is no mail system in this game.

SE also hasn't corrected the need to party yet. FFXI after only about 8-10 levels depending on your job, you NEEDED to party to balance xp vs playtime gained. Granted, that was a bit of a retractor for some people, or at times hindered the casual gamer, but honestly, it keeps the social aspect of the game alive when you have to throw people together. You also had quests that were very difficult that you needed parties to get them done. Party interaction was also important for Skill chains, which sped up your xp gains. No such luck here. SE, I know u wanted something new w/ BR, but from what I hear, that makes you fatigue sooner in that class. Why would you do this? If we already fatigue after so much sp in a job, why make Battle Regimen a handicap in a party, then a benefit? Only time it would be worth while is for NM/elite mobs. I'm not very high level, so a correction from high ranked players would be great, but if I you feel there is no content for you yet, please post your sentiments.

The only reason I still play right now is because I already paid for the software (and if I could have returned after opening, I would have). People will say I'm some type of leech or something because i'm only playing because it is free, but at least I'm not afraid of being honest. Plus, I paid for this game. Why not let me play it for free while it still can. I don't mind paying $10-20 a month, but not for a game that is not fun & lacks the content to keep a casual gamer entertained. SE, at this point is just trying to save face for the FF Franchise, but honestly, I feel it might just be too late. I hope they prove me wrong, but from the amount of content updates we have had, well... it looks like a long time coming, if at all.



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Linkshell: HardReef
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#2 Jan 09 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Default
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139 posts
(YAWN)

Thanks for telling us all something we figured out some time ago.
Great read. ;)

Edited, Jan 9th 2011 5:04pm by Bezmir
#3 Jan 09 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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19 posts
Title is misleading. I thought that for once this would be a constructive post.

A lot of us are aware of most issues with the game. And I'm sure SE is working hard to fix many of them and implement additional content. However, I think the best way to attack the game's problems is by offering solutions and not beating on the dead horse on what is already done and in the process of changing. The way I see it, it's as if I bought a machine. The machine was defective, so I'll ship it back to get it fixed. It will come back fixed in a week/month:whatever. But, I will ***** about my broken machine to everyone every single day until I get it back fixed. That's how I feel what many of the community members are doing.
#4 Jan 09 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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I read your post, and as politely as I can say this;

Your title seems to be a contradiction to your posted disappointment with the game currently.
#5 Jan 09 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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222 posts
Not much more we can say about the game until SE announces their plan or a new update. It is what it is right, either you play and enjoy or you dont.
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#6 Jan 09 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,416 posts
It sure isn't. They are even releasing a remake on the PSP with the "sequel" from few years back.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#7 Jan 09 2011 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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1,636 posts
Ego wise, they'll fight to keep it going, but the minute they believe its done, its done. SE is not financially strong enough to burn money on something to keep up their image. Mainly because even the majority of final fantasy fans don't give a crap about its MMOs.

credibility, i'm not sure what you mean here, but Square enix is not an especially prestigious company in the industry today. Its not special, they're an average AAA developer.
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#8 Jan 09 2011 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
21 posts
ShireRain wrote:
Title is misleading. I thought that for once this would be a constructive post.

A lot of us are aware of most issues with the game. And I'm sure SE is working hard to fix many of them and implement additional content. However, I think the best way to attack the game's problems is by offering solutions and not beating on the dead horse on what is already done and in the process of changing. The way I see it, it's as if I bought a machine. The machine was defective, so I'll ship it back to get it fixed. It will come back fixed in a week/month:whatever. But, I will ***** about my broken machine to everyone every single day until I get it back fixed. That's how I feel what many of the community members are doing.


Most people would return said machine if they could have & passed on having it repaired. This is not the case, so since people are "stuck" w/ said machine, they will complain.

On my observations of the game... Just because I am expressing my criticism of the game, doesn't mean I'm trying to be negative. It seems that whenever someones makes a comment based on their observations of this game, it is automatically viewed as a negative comment. Based on a persons own experiences and perspective will determine whether or not they think a comment is negative.
____________________________
"Of all the things I've lost... I miss my mind the most."

DoW Lv 24
Linkshell: HardReef
http://www.hardreeflinkshell.ffxivwebsites.com/
#9 Jan 09 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
You cant keep comparing FFXIV to FFXI. XI was released a year after it was sent out in Japan giving them a years worth of content before it came out in the US. XIV is what 4 months old now? Why are you comparing a 10 year old game to a 4 month old. Give them some time and content will come out. No MMO's have been released completely finished... If you dont like the lack of content stop playing for a year and come back when they have content. Until then max out and wait.
#10 Jan 09 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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230 posts
Dethspawn wrote:
ShireRain wrote:
Title is misleading. I thought that for once this would be a constructive post.

A lot of us are aware of most issues with the game. And I'm sure SE is working hard to fix many of them and implement additional content. However, I think the best way to attack the game's problems is by offering solutions and not beating on the dead horse on what is already done and in the process of changing. The way I see it, it's as if I bought a machine. The machine was defective, so I'll ship it back to get it fixed. It will come back fixed in a week/month:whatever. But, I will ***** about my broken machine to everyone every single day until I get it back fixed. That's how I feel what many of the community members are doing.


Most people would return said machine if they could have & passed on having it repaired. This is not the case, so since people are "stuck" w/ said machine, they will complain.

On my observations of the game... Just because I am expressing my criticism of the game, doesn't mean I'm trying to be negative. It seems that whenever someones makes a comment based on their observations of this game, it is automatically viewed as a negative comment. Based on a persons own experiences and perspective will determine whether or not they think a comment is negative.

It comes off negative because you use a misleading title (misleading because "Why FFXIV will never die" implies you are going to back it up with some positive feedback). Then we come in to this topic to see nothing but the same Negative points about the game that everyone knows and has been discussing for the last 4+ months.
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#11 Jan 09 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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im sure they will keep this game alive, at least as long as they think they can make money off of it.

for me personally, this game isn't the amazing next MMO that not only i, but everyone, was expecting, and i'm not going to lower my standards to force myself to like this game. i'm still keeping an eye on these forums and the game developement to see where this game is going. The changes so far have been good. The game however, is still far from good as well and it still remains to be seen where we are going.

Until this game knows where it's going and get's there, i'll be checking out Rift, tera, and the old republic. When that happens, i'll fire up my account for a second try.
#12 Jan 09 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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1,674 posts
JppOnry wrote:
You cant keep comparing FFXIV to FFXI. XI was released a year after it was sent out in Japan giving them a years worth of content before it came out in the US. XIV is what 4 months old now? Why are you comparing a 10 year old game to a 4 month old. Give them some time and content will come out. No MMO's have been released completely finished... If you dont like the lack of content stop playing for a year and come back when they have content. Until then max out and wait.


I'm getting a little tired of this line of apologist reasoning. I mean no offense to you when I say that, but I've heard it enough to know it's a weak argument.

FFXI had more within its first couple months than FFXIV did. ****, it had more at release. There are all sorts of logs and notes and update outlines for what happened pre-international release to know this if one does the research.

Missions, for example? FFXI had more than FFXIV does. But more than that, it had more on a per level average than FFXIV has now. You had somewhere around 12 unique nation missions, and around 30 in all excluding overlapping Magicite/Emissary missions, compared to the ... what, 6 or 7? Maybe 8 in FFXIV right now? And that 30 or so were doable within the first 30 or so job levels. Compare that to XIV, where it's dispersed over a 50 level/rank period. Put aside the quality of the graphics to this game or the cutscenes that go along with these missions, and one sees that in this case, less it not more.

Jobs? FFXI had at least 4 to 6 unique advanced jobs, all of them with quests that made you feel like you were a part of something. And what is more, you actually worked towards them. I enjoyed making my way up to level 30 and then going out there and unlocking them, whereas FFXIV has diddly piddly when it comes to non-base jobs. I won't try and ascertain or assume why, however my own gut intuition leaves me with an unsettling feeling about what to expect when it comes to new jobs and FFXIV.

Quests? Don't even get me started on that. And no matter how you may try and slice it, leves do not make for feasible, engrossing content with which to draw your community in and enjoy a wide, online world experience. They're 3 hour bursts of efficient grinding which are appreciated for saving time, but once you finish them, that's it for a day and a half.

I could likely go on comparing what these two games had or have when comparing their beginnings, but hopefully you see what I am saying.

So I ask you, please stop trotting out the same "FFXIV is only X months old" or "FFXI has been out Y years longer" lines. Please. It's old, it's agitating, and I reiterate, it's poor logic when you compare what "vanilla" FFXI still had compared to what "vanilla" FFXIV now has. Are there some things that could be rebutted by saying FFXI did not have them at the get-go? Of course. But it had enough, even prior to us non-Japanese players getting our hands on the game, that it's a poor counter.

Edited, Jan 9th 2011 5:58pm by Satisiun
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI Character(s)
Name: Satisiun
Server: Carbuncle (RIP Gilgamesh)
Jobs: 99DRG, 99PLD, 99RDM, 99WHM | Everything else: 50-60
~Retired.~

Final Fantasy XIV Character(s)
Name: Satisiun Desain
Server(s): Sargantas (primary)
DoW/DoM/DoH/DoL: 50
#13 Jan 09 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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1,636 posts
JppOnry wrote:
You cant keep comparing FFXIV to FFXI. XI was released a year after it was sent out in Japan giving them a years worth of content before it came out in the US. XIV is what 4 months old now? Why are you comparing a 10 year old game to a 4 month old. Give them some time and content will come out. No MMO's have been released completely finished... If you dont like the lack of content stop playing for a year and come back when they have content. Until then max out and wait.


More importantly you can't compare them because one came out in 2002 and the other came out in 2010. Comparing FFXIV to FFXI is a waste of time (even though I also happen to feel that FFXI released better too), FFXIV should be compared to every other title that's released in the past 2 years or so (which is what I consider the too late for major changes stage of development).
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#14Hyanmen, Posted: Jan 09 2011 at 5:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Say the Japanese who were on the barricades over having nothing to do in the game, the bugs, the server instability and the lack of balance. It had enough for 2002, and frankly XIV does too. It means nothing here.
#15 Jan 09 2011 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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1,674 posts
Hyanmen, if you're going to debate with me, I'd kindly ask you to please avoid using sarcasm or some sort of attitude. I respect you may have an entirely different view of the matter, but frankly ...

Hyanmen wrote:
Conveniently ignoring everything [...] are we? Cool.


Hyanmen wrote:
Do you do the same with FoV and normal quests in XI? You are odd.


Smacks of immaturity and someone who is looking more for a fight than an actual, constructive thread. You may disagree, and that's all well and good, but you can drop the attitude.

If you can't do that, then I'll simply disregard whatever you may say after this response. It's just as much about presentation as it is about the product, i.e. your attitude combined with your logic, be it good or bad logic.


Hyanmen wrote:
Jobs? How many abilities did these jobs even have? 5? 6? It is a simple quality vs. quantity argument here. Less jobs, but full of abilities and spells unlike their XI colleagues.


More jobs with more niche roles is, in my opinion, something better than homogeneous jobs which do everything or can be mixed and matchesd to the point where there is almost no difference between them. You might see it differently, but it's a matter of taste in the end.

This is coming from someone who was a Dragoon during the leanest of times. Despite the general ostracizing my job received, I still appreciate how each job had a more specific role or more unique abilities, compared to the way FFXIV plays out right now.

But more than just having more jobs, it was the idea that there were jobs that you had to earn by questing for, and unlocking them. That in itself is content. Good content, too. It requires you to do something, and gives you a tangible reward which actually changes the way you can play the game if you so desire, both figuratively and literally.


Hyanmen wrote:
Missions? Slightly more.


Not slightly. Many. Back in the beginning of FFXI, there was Rank Missions up to at least Rank 4. 12 missions, at least, per nation. 36 excluding Jeuno/emissary overlap.

FFXIV story missions amount to, in all, around 8. 8 over the span of 50 ranks. Compared to 12 over the span of about 35 levels in FFXI. Triple if you changed nations, something that FFXIV does not allow you to do at this point in time.

Hyanmen wrote:
Quests? Probably slightly more as well.


Again, not slightly. Again, many. Exclude nation missions, since I just went over those numbers above. This leaves you with job quests which begin at Rank 20.

If you want, I'll give you the benefit of comparing job quests in XIV to job quests in XI, in which case you're right, XIV has more, actually, since quests beyond the artifact weapon were not implemented until later.

But that leaves the question, what in FFXIV do you compare to FFXI's mass of quests you attained from NPCs? If you'd rather not compare leves to those and instead compare them to Field of Valor regimens, I have two things to say to that.

1) This ignores that each leve comes with quest-like blurbs, an obvious attempt by the developers to make leves quest-like.

2) Don't compare them, and suddenly FFXIV has no actual, non-mission or job-related quests, period. Compare that dearth of stuff to do to, well, most any MMO out there right now. Not just FFXI.

Like I said, guildleves are nice things to do that help to reduce grind without rewarding for grinding, but after they are done, unless you have one of those rare job/mission things to do, so few and far in between in XIV, you don't got much else to do in the way of game content that isn't just leveling a job, be it craft, field, or battle.

Hyanmen wrote:
XI had Chocobos. XIV has the Anima system. XI's crafting when compared to XIV's? Don't make me laugh. Even Gathering is more detailed.


You brought those up. Not me. In fact, XIV's crafting is one of the good things. But the problem is it's one of the only things, too.

Hyanmen wrote:
Say the Japanese who were on the barricades over having nothing to do in the game, the bugs, the server instability and the lack of balance.


In the end, freshly released FFXI still had more to do, in terms of the game as a whole, than freshly released FFXIV had and, honestly, still has. Balance issues, bug issues, server issues, are things most every MMO deals with. WoW did, Aion did, EverQuest 2 did ... the list really does go on.

Edited, Jan 9th 2011 6:37pm by Satisiun
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI Character(s)
Name: Satisiun
Server: Carbuncle (RIP Gilgamesh)
Jobs: 99DRG, 99PLD, 99RDM, 99WHM | Everything else: 50-60
~Retired.~

Final Fantasy XIV Character(s)
Name: Satisiun Desain
Server(s): Sargantas (primary)
DoW/DoM/DoH/DoL: 50
#16 Jan 09 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Default
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3,416 posts
I am sarcastic, but as long as we don't resort to personal insults, it shouldn't be an issue. I am sorry for calling you odd.

Quote:
More jobs with more niche roles


Are you saying that XIV has no niche roles? PUG tanking is different from GLA tanking is different from MAR tanking and so on. The difference is that XI forced those roles on you based on your job- there is very little in XI ability wise that XIV doesn't have.

Let's not touch the subject regarding when the jobs in question were able to perform their niche roles either. Pick a DD at levels one through 30, aside from his weapon skills they are all the same and homogenous. BST as the glorious exception, but do you know what? Nobody played BST during Vanilla because SE totally screwed up it's balance. It's like the job didn't exist at all (along with Ranger and Thief).

As far as abilities, Ranger was even worse off than one would think:

□There were no ranged Weapon Skills.
□When they finally added the ranged WS Flaming Arrow, it would damage the ranger as well upon use.

ARC > RNG by a few miles.

Quote:
But more than just having more jobs, it was the idea that there were jobs that you had to earn by questing for, and unlocking them. That in itself is content. Good content, too. It requires you to do something, and gives you a tangible reward which actually changes the way you can play the game if you so desire, both figuratively and literally.


Now this is a matter of taste, I agree. Forcing someone to play a job he doesn't like to unlock the job he likes? Let's not glorify this amazing feature too much.

Quote:
FFXIV story missions amount to, in all, around 8.


I am going to have to correct you here. The game has around 17 missions, and usually more than one way to clear them. I have not also heard about players being able to change nations right off the bat in XI, do you have a source?

Quote:
If you want, I'll give you the benefit of comparing job quests in XIV to job quests in XI, in which case you're right, XIV has more, actually, since quests beyond the artifact weapon were not implemented until later.


I think that is a bit silly. AF quests, while not being completely similar with other quests, were still considered quests in the normal sense of the word. I don't see a reason why class quests in XIV do not fill the same criteria. AF quests were quests, class quests are quests. That's what I compare them to. Quests to quests. Simply instead of having reputation or level limitations, these quests have class limitations.

Quote:
1) This ignores that each leve comes with quest-like blurbs, an obvious attempt by the developers to make leves quest-like.


Yes, I am aware that SE wanted to flesh out guildleves more than they did flesh out FoV. FoV "quests" are very quest-like too, just without the added lore. It is not a stretch at all to compare the two, although Guildleves are more like FoV and MMM combined.

Quote:
You brought those up. Not me. In fact, XIV's crafting is one of the good things. But the problem is it's one of the only things, too.


Both games had very few good things to them. Why did you skip them in the first place? Because they didn't support your argument? That makes me disappointed, to be honest :/. To compare them objectively, you can't overlook them.

Quote:
In the end, freshly released FFXI still had more to do, in terms of the game as a whole, than freshly released FFXIV had


But in the end, you have not really convinced me of that. Instead of fighting, you can do three things in XIV from the get-go without even having to touch the other two, although they are beneficial. That alone is better than what XI ever offered.

XI had better milestones, that much is true, but overall the games are quite **** equal. I also don't see why if every MMO deals with such issues it is acceptable, and why it doesn't work for XIV's advantage that it didn't deal with them. What the game lacks in milestones it surely makes up for in balance alone. We are not talking about "class X does 3% less damage in PvP than class Y" balance issues here. Jobs were completely and utterly useless for a long time, and there was no "tank" role in a game based on the holy trinity mechanics.

This also makes me lol:

■Once you learned a WS, despite your current level, you could use any WS.
□You could use Raging Fists as a level 1 WHM. Because you needed H2H skill in your chart, you needed to sub WAR, MNK, or THF.

Edited, Jan 10th 2011 3:18am by Hyanmen

Edited, Jan 10th 2011 3:24am by Hyanmen
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#17 Jan 09 2011 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
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The game didn't also have BCNM's before the start of 2003.

I'd say Faction leves and BCNM's can be compared rather easily.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#18 Jan 09 2011 at 7:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,530 posts
Dethspawn wrote:
...FFIV... FFIV... FFIV...


TL;DR: "I don't know how to use Roman numerals."
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#19 Jan 09 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I dont see this game dying any time soon, warhammer is down to like 50k player and its still kickin.
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#20 Jan 09 2011 at 9:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Dethspawn wrote:
...FFIV... FFIV... FFIV...


TL;DR: "I don't know how to use Roman numerals."


I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point this out.
#21 Jan 09 2011 at 9:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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11,539 posts
ThePacster wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Dethspawn wrote:
...FFIV... FFIV... FFIV...


TL;DR: "I don't know how to use Roman numerals."


I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point this out.


I didn't even notice that, or I would have said something way sooner.

Self, I are disappoint.
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
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#22 Jan 09 2011 at 9:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
ThePacster wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Dethspawn wrote:
...FFIV... FFIV... FFIV...


TL;DR: "I don't know how to use Roman numerals."


I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point this out.


I didn't even notice that, or I would have said something way sooner.

Self, I are disappoint.


/comfort. I guess you're just going to have to move on to another thread... because there's certainly nothing else wrong with the original post, right? XD
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#23 Jan 09 2011 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
It wont die, but it wont go anywhere either :)
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#24 Jan 10 2011 at 4:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
I dont see this game dying any time soon, warhammer is down to like 50k player and its still kickin.


To be fair, however, Warhammer Online (and Age of Conan, as well) recouped it's development expenses just off of initial box sales. Both of those games have been profitable since the very beginning.

FFXIV did not - and in fact still has not recouped the cost of development, while it continues to rack up further operating expenses during it's "extended free trial period". The game as it stands now is a net loss, every month, for SE.

Make no mistake, if Square Enix cannot turn the game around and get it into the land a profitability soon enough, they will shut it down.
#25 Jan 10 2011 at 6:13 AM Rating: Default
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I just think that SE feel that following the path of FFXI is best course of action.

Assuming that SE feel that FFXI is a success. FFXIV is also a success consider it have capture at least 300k subscription for the first year without the ps3.

Of course, i would say half of us have quit by now but because it is still free half of us still remains and these half will remain because when you bought this game, no one expected to be free anyhow, so they will keep paying it after (so would I).

The game isn't fun to hardcore players, but as a casual i enjoy it to some extend.

FFXI was horrible at japanese retail, lucky only the japanese known how horrible it was and not the north Americans.
#26 Jan 10 2011 at 6:30 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I just think that SE feel that following the path of FFXI is best course of action.


Yoshida hasn't even played FFXI. I don't know how you could have come to that conclusion. Depending on what you mean by that, of course.
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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#27 Jan 10 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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ThePacster wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Dethspawn wrote:
...FFIV... FFIV... FFIV...


TL;DR: "I don't know how to use Roman numerals."


I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point this out.

Hyanmen wrote:
It sure isn't. They are even releasing a remake on the PSP with the "sequel" from few years back.

It took roughly 5 replies.
#28 Jan 10 2011 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Why FFXIV will never die?


SE took a sh*t in a box and marked it "Final Fantasy", that's why FFXIV will never die.

There are enough idiots out there that will play the game just for that reason, and plenty of people with no real lives that have found a way to kill 8+ hours per day.
#29 Jan 10 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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800 posts
thejones wrote:
Quote:
Why FFXIV will never die?


SE took a sh*t in a box and marked it "Final Fantasy", that's why FFXIV will never die.

There are enough idiots out there that will play the game just for that reason, and plenty of people with no real lives that have found a way to kill 8+ hours per day.


If people playing the game are idiots, what does that make people who post on an internet forum about said game?
#30 Jan 10 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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75 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
If people playing the game are idiots, what does that make people who post on an internet forum about said game?


Oh, the irony. Pot, meet kettle.

Anyone know if SE is still jacking off while the game dies, or have they announced content updates? The whole "We'll release a poll on New Year's and take two weeks to interpret it" is very ******* lame and completely unacceptable for a company which commands the resources SE does.
#31 Jan 10 2011 at 1:59 PM Rating: Default
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In other words, "moar communicashun will fix this gaem, SE is dumb for not throwing more money at the lodestone".
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#32 Jan 10 2011 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Dethspawn wrote:
Ego and Credibility.

This game is someone's baby @ SE. ****, this game is all our babies for the people who have enjoyed the FF franchise throughout the years. That is one of the reasons why we don't want FFIV to fail. If it did, it would tarnish the credibility of SE and also make me never buy a FF franchise product with the confidence I once had.

I bought this game w/ blinders on, not reading reviews of the beta. I upgraded my system w/ the idea that this game was going to be amazing, or for the most part, fun enough to play from time to time, based on how much I enjoyed 11.

Sadly, this game is broken enough that I really can't see myself wanting to keep playing this game, even though I loved FFXI. Granted, they have made a few updates within the past few months to alleviate the biggest issues with the game, but that did not make the game more fun, just playable.

Just because a game is "playable", does not make the game fun. Where is the content for this game?

If anyone has seen "The Social Network", this game is lacking exclusivity. Also, where are the rewards or the sense of accomplishment in game?

Almost all the quests in this game are just something to do to gain some sp/items. I mean granted, sp helps you rank up, but other than that, you are not getting anything other than that. Opening up some faction quests? Where is the high lv content for the people who are completing their regional leves religiously? FFXI had quests that would (if you decided to complete them), help faction/lower npc costs/unlock other areas/unlock new quests/jobs/level cap/items/rare items/inventory space/etc. You would get a feeling of accomplishment by getting these benefits & have a sense of exclusivity, because not everyone would get these benefits if they didn't complete the quests, some repeatedly. The lack of NM monsters or special areas where you can only obtain rare items/factions/etc, also detracts from this aspect as well. I mean, even other less polished no name MMO's games have some of these basic elements. How could SE have overlooked this aspect?

This game also has not put in restrictions either, thus destroying the sense of exclusivity & accomplishment.

This is glaringly apparent in the crafting aspect. By allowing everyone access to ranking up all crafts, where is the sense of accomplishment. Example, a casual BSM has been ranking up these past few months, feeling like they are getting somewhere. You have the hardcore crafter, that has ranked up every other craft to that same level, or even close to it. Is it really worth crafting? Not to me, unless your bored or you really into crafting. I mean, in most games they restrict you to 1 or 2 crafts to restrict this from happening, they even require you to do certain quests or by reaching certain levels to further progress. SE destroys the feeling that something is/was being accomplished & exclusivity is thrown out the window by not implementing some of these restrictions. SE, did you forget how to make money like you did in FF11? That's right, you had to pay $$$ for an alt, to be able to reach the highest level of each craft. It also became harder & harder at higher levels to rank up, materials were harder to find. In FFIV... just do your local leves & with time, anyone can become a high level crafter.

SE also did not put in level restrictions on weapons/armor. This one of the factors that has hindered our in game economy. There is no need to to really upgrade armor/weapon where you can already wear your r25 items at lv 1. What other game out there allows this? This destroys our economy by hindering crafters to create low level gear for people who "might" want it, but don't really need. They will just grind out ranks on junk synths. They will then sell items that are craft only, for very large amounts (nothing wrong with this). It doesn't help that SE made making gil in this game so easy. From leves you can make 40-50k easily & factor in item rewards/shards/crystals you can sell. Making a 100k is fairly easy & can be done quickly. So, when you see that item in a retainer for 1.5mil. It seems like alot, but since you can start using it at any time, it looks a lot more appealing then trying to craft, even at that price. Especially when you factor in the time to rank up multiple crafts to be able to make that 1 item.

I mean honestly, SE dropped the ball on this game, from my perspective. The economy in this game is utterly broken. I mean, ok, so SE is trying to keep RMT out with no AH. That is just totally unrealistic, but SE has pretty much done this. How? By making gil so easy to make at the moment that gil is worthless. Want to buy/sell items, but no AH? Well give us wards that don't crash, that way people who do want to craft, buy/sell items, can. Ok, have mils of gill but don't know what to do with it? Give us ways to burn through it. Implement chocobos or another means of travel that is overpriced so they can blow some of this Gil. Or sell us some of those silly items like fireworks! A TIP for you casual gamers who have a hard time trying to keep up with the hardcore gamer in terms of Gil. When someone is looking for a teleport, don't be afraid to ask for 20-30k gil. The people who play all the time have barely any anima & enough Gil that they won't flinch at those prices. The only time they do, is when the reason they are going to another area, is to hand someone an item/material. SE, give us a MAIL SYSTEM. Yes you heard me, people who have not played this game yet. There is no mail system in this game.

SE also hasn't corrected the need to party yet. FFXI after only about 8-10 levels depending on your job, you NEEDED to party to balance xp vs playtime gained. Granted, that was a bit of a retractor for some people, or at times hindered the casual gamer, but honestly, it keeps the social aspect of the game alive when you have to throw people together. You also had quests that were very difficult that you needed parties to get them done. Party interaction was also important for Skill chains, which sped up your xp gains. No such luck here. SE, I know u wanted something new w/ BR, but from what I hear, that makes you fatigue sooner in that class. Why would you do this? If we already fatigue after so much sp in a job, why make Battle Regimen a handicap in a party, then a benefit? Only time it would be worth while is for NM/elite mobs. I'm not very high level, so a correction from high ranked players would be great, but if I you feel there is no content for you yet, please post your sentiments.

The only reason I still play right now is because I already paid for the software (and if I could have returned after opening, I would have). People will say I'm some type of leech or something because i'm only playing because it is free, but at least I'm not afraid of being honest. Plus, I paid for this game. Why not let me play it for free while it still can. I don't mind paying $10-20 a month, but not for a game that is not fun & lacks the content to keep a casual gamer entertained. SE, at this point is just trying to save face for the FF Franchise, but honestly, I feel it might just be too late. I hope they prove me wrong, but from the amount of content updates we have had, well... it looks like a long time coming, if at all.
Because SE is a large company that has the resources to throw money at a failed project to keep it alive. A smaller company would have been destroyed by this launch. All there is to it.
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#33 Jan 10 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Because SE is a large company that has the resources to throw money at a failed project to keep it alive. A smaller company would have been destroyed by this launch. All there is to it.


That can't really be all these is to it, because you didn't explain why they would throw money at the failed project.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#34 Jan 10 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Because SE is a large company that has the resources to throw money at a failed project to keep it alive. A smaller company would have been destroyed by this launch. All there is to it.


That can't really be all these is to it, because you didn't explain why they would throw money at the failed project.


Because they think it can turn around? The minute they realize they're sunk, they'll announce its done.
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#35 Jan 10 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Because SE is a large company that has the resources to throw money at a failed project to keep it alive. A smaller company would have been destroyed by this launch. All there is to it.


That can't really be all these is to it, because you didn't explain why they would throw money at the failed project.


Because they think it can turn around? The minute they realize they're sunk, they'll announce its done.


I'm going to have to disagree with this. FFXIV's release was the definition of sunk. The ship wasn't just taking on water, it was fully submerged with only the crow's nest out of water. SE has been spending every day since October throwing as much money and time as they have at pulling the ship back up.

They're making progress slowly but surely, but I believe the game has already hit the lowest it can go and has been improving since then.
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#36 Jan 10 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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602 posts
I totally read the wall of text and I agree with the OP, jumping and swimming need to be enabled.
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FFXI: Dashiel. (Asura) Puppetmaster.
FFXIV: Majidah Sihaam. (Besaid)
Marauder, Weaver & Alchemist.

#37 Jan 10 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Because SE is a large company that has the resources to throw money at a failed project to keep it alive. A smaller company would have been destroyed by this launch. All there is to it.
If anything the revamped dev team and the amount of time they're investing into FFXIV shows otherwise. If it was a simple case of having the resources to do whatever they wanted, they could've just ditched FFXIV in its entirety and remade a new MMO in its place. The fact they're working so hard to get this one right shows that they don't have that kind of money and they want to do this properly.

There was a post a while back showing how much Square-Enix has lost in earnings, and a lot of it is believed to be because of the FFXIV release. They're not throwing money at FFXIV because they can afford to, they're doing it because they can't afford not to. This, if anything, shows that they're serious about getting this right and working hard to implement sweeping changes to make the game more enjoyable for us.

I don't believe FFXIV will die out anytime soon, but not necessarily for the reasons the OP listed. This game will remain because the devs believe they can turn this around, and their faith must be at least a little contagious because plenty of my old LS pals have echoed the same view. I'm more than willing to put my faith in SE to make this game as enjoyable as possible, and I hope it goes the distance.

Edited, Jan 10th 2011 5:52pm by Glitterhands
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FFXI: Siren Server: Seiowan Lvl 99 WHM, SCH, BLM
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#38 Jan 10 2011 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Glitterhands wrote:
Quote:
Because SE is a large company that has the resources to throw money at a failed project to keep it alive. A smaller company would have been destroyed by this launch. All there is to it.
If anything the revamped dev team and the amount of time they're investing into FFXIV shows otherwise. If it was a simple case of having the resources to do whatever they wanted, they could've just ditched FFXIV in its entirety and remade a new MMO in its place. The fact they're working so hard to get this one right shows that they don't have that kind of money and they want to do this properly.


To be honest, if they -did- ditch FFXIV completely and try to launch a new MMO instead, the first thing in every review of the new upcoming MMORPG from Square-Enix would be "Will this game be a flop and be scrapped just like FFXIV was?"

I agree with you; Financially speaking -and- in terms of PR, their best interest lie with making FFXIV workable. It already looks bad enough that FFXIV had a flubbed launch, but totally ditching it would manage to make them look even worse as a company.
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#39 Jan 10 2011 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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remember when they said "we want to make the best FF game ever and to do that we decided an MMO would be the best way". Im sure someone saw that later down the line and was red as a lobster.

Anyways SE has the money to throw at the game to try and make it better. They are not only a high end developer, but a big time publisher too. I dont think they would like to see a #d FF ****** get shut down, its clear their pride wont let them. If anything they can keep sinking FFXIs profits into this, the games still making good money and apparently has more people paying to play that then there is people playing this game for free.
#40 Jan 10 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Because SE is a large company that has the resources to throw money at a failed project to keep it alive. A smaller company would have been destroyed by this launch. All there is to it.


That can't really be all these is to it, because you didn't explain why they would throw money at the failed project.
It's a Final Fantasy title. They will protect their IP.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#41 Jan 11 2011 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
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People seem to forget they lost 125mil from Spirits and had to merge <.<

Has anybody seen the fail train they been on lately ? FFXIV, Front Mission Evolve, Secret of mana series, Saga series ?

Those where solid series back in the day, that they have turned into utter pieces of **** :)

All that saves and keeps SE afloat is that they pump 3 remakes of the same old 3 FF ******* every so often
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#42 Jan 11 2011 at 1:41 AM Rating: Good
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Because SE has been here before. Because they made all the exact same mistakes they made on ff11 in ff 14. If you get a cowboy who gets bucked off a bull because his feet were to high, then he slowly got it right and he got really good, just to return to getting bucked off the bull because his feet were to high again you would not say" give him a break its a different bull" because yes it is a different bull but it is the same concept.

SE get rid of E and stop ridding your franchise reputation, go back to the times when you really tried to impress us thank you
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KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
This is all just a fanboy civil war. Some are hurt that SE gave them such a crap game, the others are hurt that anyone would call it crap.
#43 Jan 11 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
People seem to forget they lost 125mil from Spirits and had to merge <.<

Has anybody seen the fail train they been on lately ? FFXIV, Front Mission Evolve, Secret of mana series, Saga series ?

Those where solid series back in the day, that they have turned into utter pieces of sh*t :)

All that saves and keeps SE afloat is that they pump 3 remakes of the same old 3 FF ******* every so often


Actually, the failure of Spirits Within did not force Square to merge with Enix - Enix had actually been looking to acquire Square before then, and in fact Spirits Within's bombing at the box office delayed the merger.

Also, some people would debate that the Saga series was ever solid - but that's neither here nor there.



SE stays afloat because almost anything bearing the Final Fantasy name (or the Dragon Quest name, for that matter) sells well (also, because FFXI continues to rake in much more money than it costs to operate). The widely disliked FF XIII - which is the second-worst-reviewed main-franchise FF after XIV - sold over 6 million copies, and the heavily-mocked and widely-shunned FF X-2 sold over 5 million, both resulting in huge profits. Even Dirge of Cerberus has sold over 1 million copies, turning at least a modest profit.
#44 Jan 11 2011 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Because SE is a large company that has the resources to throw money at a failed project to keep it alive. A smaller company would have been destroyed by this launch. All there is to it.


That can't really be all these is to it, because you didn't explain why they would throw money at the failed project.


Obviously because they think they can turn it around...quit asking stupid questions. If SE doesn't think that the PS3 launch is going to give this game new life they wouldn't be doing anything they're doing, and this is good for the game as it'll most likely reach many peoples' standards by then. Today, unless you enjoy the battle system or the crafting system you enjoy nothing about the game, that is why the game has a decent following still plus all the hopefuls. Personally, I think I'm done with the game, I've grown bored of it but I will keep it installed and who knows if down the road with each update I find myself playing again but this game is far from finished, I think it'll probably end up being a bigger success than FFXI.
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#45 Jan 11 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Having around 60-100k users when the game is basically F2P is hardly a modest success <.<

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#46 Jan 11 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Having around 60-100k users when the game is basically F2P is hardly a modest success <.<


B2P.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#47 Jan 11 2011 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Having around 60-100k users when the game is basically F2P is hardly a modest success <.<


B2P.


It's an innovative game model. >.>
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