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FFXIV Potential ?Follow

#1 Jan 11 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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I have read this word thrown around in practically every topic, well lets discuss it :)

What core mechanics or aspects of the game have the "Potential" to make this game better than anything on the market right now ? (Or even on par with other games)

Discuss

P.S: Let's try to keep it civil, and the bash as low as possible :)
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#2 Jan 11 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Crafting

Crafting could really be great in this game. But for what I'm thinking, it would require quite an overhaul. Imagine this:

There are no HQ +1/2/3 in the game. All item's stats are determined by their quality alone. Also, all crafted items automatically get signed with the maker's name, so you know who the really good items come from.

You'd know that X crafter specializes in making Y item, because you'd see people running around with weapons with awesome stats make by X crafter.

Also, crafted items should eventually, over a very long time granted, break. Say a crafted item starts off at 100 durability. Each time you repair it, it loses a point. When it's durability reaches 0, the item's dust. Of course, this would require that item durability be heavily buffed from where it is now.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 11:58am by Osarion
#3 Jan 11 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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"Better" is subjective. Is Street Fighter 4 better than BlazBlue? Different games, different audiences.

Just wanted to point that out.

That said, this game has potential to provide a different experience for a different audience, and because most of the features are unfinished right now, that means said features have potential to become much better as the game is updated. Aside from that, the game has several unannounced features that have the potential to be good as well. Lastly, the company behind the game has enough money, so the game can actually achieve it's full potential. Unlike some other MMO's that have had less funding and therefore not all the features have been released and never will (AoC), meaning it will never achieve it's full potential.

Other MMO's also usually launch with all the features in place, and aside from small tweaks all the potential the games may have has been already achieved. The features are finished, and you either like the end result or you don't. This was also the case with many features in AoC.

That's how I'd describe it.
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#4 Jan 11 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Crafting

Crafting could really be great in this game, but for what I'm thinking, it would require quite an overhaul. Imagine this:

There are no HQ +1/2/3 in the game. All item's stats are determined by their quality alone. Also, all crafted items automatically get signed with the maker's name, so you know who the really good items come from.

You'd know that X crafter specializes in making Y item, because you'd see people running around with weapons with awesome stats make by X crafter.

Also, crafted items should eventually, over a very long time granted, break. Say a crafted item starts off at 100 durability. Each time you repair it, it loses a point. When it's durability reaches 0, the item's dust. Of course, this would require that item durability be heavily buffed from where it is now.


Very interesting idea, i would like something like that implemented and improved upon
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#5 Jan 11 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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I've often wondered this as well. I've often though that yes, this game could be great if they made it into exactly what I'd want it to be, but its unrealistic. The actual "potential" is what the game is currently working towards, not what we all wish it will be.

The one system I do feel this game has the potential to beat out a lot of the market with, is the ability customization system, however I think it would need a lot of work.

What the system looks like now is just a bunch of potluck abilities used on whichever weapon people prefer. What I would like to see, is actual well defined classes, who can still incorporate great abilities from other classes. I think if they were to make most abilities stronger and class specific, while offering a few abilities that would do well on other classes. Also, rather than weakening cross class abilities, have them require more Action points to equip.
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#6 Jan 11 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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The overworld. It is so beautiful that it is a shame to be built by cookie cutter section. Imagine what it will look like if the zone change progressively and with variety of landscape/landmark.

Combat animation. Your avatar is PRETTY, but it is stuck with boring combat animation....red lotus = spin and hit, circle blade = spin and hit, spin stroke = spin and hit, etc. Not to mention unimpressive magic effect for the caster. Instead of making things go boom...it's more like making things go puff.

Multiple Monsters Combat dynamic. With variety of AoE spell and skills that gone totally useless because AoE hits everything, BUT you don't get exp for it unless the monster happens to be in the same group was your target. SE needs to make up its mine. Either have AoE hits only enemy's party, or have us earn full exp from all the non-party monsters. I'm leaning toward the later because that will open up some fun combat tactics. Like having your melee divided up to groups of 2 and have them fight 2 or 3 monsters at the same time in close proximity so the mages can heal them all with one AoE heal or nuke all monsters at once.



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#7 Jan 11 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think SE can drum up a really good story.

I also think that party play and battle regimen system can be very cool. I like the idea of incapacitations especially when it's graphically implemented.

From a person who hates crafting, crafting in this game is tolerable and with a few tweaks can be better.

The party recruit system has potential.

I like getting EXP from doing most things in the world.

There is great potential from the class system. I really can't wait for the game to get better so that we can see the viability of 'hybrid' classes.

Leves are interesting, and hold a lot of potential as well. Finding leves on mobs, enemy leve quests, hidden leves etc...

All other potential comes from the quality of SE games in the past, and hopes that SE improves on things from FFXI and rectifies FFXIV current mistakes.
#8 Jan 11 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Storyline and cutscenes could easily have come from a quality offline RPG.
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#9 Jan 11 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here are my thoughts on how to modify existing mechanics to be better...

Class Distinction wrote:
Classes are too general. There is hardly any distinction between classes because they feel too generic. I don't care who the best MAR is because PUG can do the same. I don't care who the best CON is because THM can do the same. In FFXI, you knew who the best BLM was on your server, you knew who the best DRG was on your server, and you knew who the best PLD was on your server. In FFXIV? The only really recognizable people are the best crafters. Here are a couple ways to fix this.

Stat Points
Stat points NEED to be more defined. As they stand now, they are way too general. I could literally put 80 points in STR from R1-30 and be BARELY more effective than someone with 40 points. I hit mobs almost as often with 15 DEX as I do with 80 DEX. Is the increase there? Sure. Is it noticeable? Hardly.

Their current effects need to be further emphasized. 40 STR should increase damage by 70-100 instead of a piddly 20-30. 40 DEX should increase accuracy by 7-10% instead of 2-5%. It should be a big enough difference where you could actually tell who, between two people, have the better build.

Armor
Every class being able to wear every armor at any level just lessens the distinction even further.

Armor should only be wearable by the class that's listed on it, and the level requirement should be an actual level requirement (though this is debateable due to the fluid class changing mechanic).


Combat Mechanics wrote:
Current combat mechanics have a lot of potential with the Incapacitate and Battle Regimens.

Battle Regimen
These should be more FLUID, like Skill Chains were in FFXI. You shouldn't have to select an option to initiate one. You should be able to just use a WS and chain it with someone else's WS using a certain combination to automatically initiate a Regimen.

Incapacitate
This might come with the addition of end-game HNM's, but the Incapacitate feature should be there in conjunction with unique special boss mechanics to prevent fights from being mere tank n' spanks.


Market wrote:
The Market Wards are fine for now, until we get more content. But my idea to be able to have both Market Wards alongside an AH would be something like this...

Auction House
Cannot be used to sell finished products (Armor, Weapons). Can only auction parts and materials. Useful for spamming +1, +2, and +3 materials that do nothing but clog inventory. No item limit.

Market Wards
Can sell/buy anything and everything. Useful to put items in bazaar for repair, and THE place to go for buying/selling finished products (Armor, Weapons). 20-item limit.


Quests wrote:
NPC-based quests need to be added into the game for immersion. Leves simply don't cut it, because leves are basically dailies... While leaves are great for fast EXP and money, from my experience with WoW, no one actually likes doing dailies for fun.


SP System wrote:
SP gains need to go up. There needs to be a benefit to leveling in a party. It should obviously be in fixed amounts, so here's what I think.

Too Weak : 0-50 SP
Easy Prey : 50-100 SP
Decent Challenge : 100-150 SP
Even Match : 150-200 SP
Tough : 200-250 SP
Very Tough : 250-300 SP
Incredibly Tough : 300-350 SP
Impossible To Gauge : 350-??? SP

Amount of EXP gained per mob stays the same, whether in a group or solo. This way, it's possible to solo, but also ideal to party.
#10 Jan 11 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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SP gains need to go up. There needs to be a benefit to leveling in a party. It should obviously be in fixed amounts, so here's what I think.

Too Weak : 0-50 SP
Easy Prey : 50-100 SP
Decent Challenge : 100-150 SP
Even Match : 150-200 SP
Tough : 200-250 SP
Very Tough : 250-300 SP
Incredibly Tough : 300-350 SP
Impossible To Gauge : 350-??? SP

Amount of EXP gained per mob stays the same, whether in a group or solo. This way, it's possible to solo, but also ideal to party.



That is basically the system they have in place now, Except the SP is a bit lower. What they need to do is base mob SP on more factors, like HP , defence and attack strength. a Yellow Doblyn with 800 hp shouldn't give the same HP as a yellow Bark eft with 4000 hp or a Yellow Grass raptor that hits for 400 dmg.

SP/mob needs to be a product of far more factors than just its rank, this would make insanely tough monsters worth fighting with a group since they would give a lot more SP.

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#11 Jan 11 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:

Also, crafted items should eventually, over a very long time granted, break. Say a crafted item starts off at 100 durability. Each time you repair it, it loses a point. When it's durability reaches 0, the item's dust.]


I dislike the repair system now because, even after crafting/buying an item, it feels as though I don't truly own it because I must depend on others just to keep it in usable condition. A system that, essentially, makes all weapons and armour into slow-degrading consumables would only increase the interminable feeling of temporality that weighs upon me already.

I think that the largest problem would come from the cases in which there is nobody who continues to make certain consumable pieces in question. For example, I lost interest in Thief in FFXI once "rarer" crossbow bolts and Ninjutsu (due to the fact that they ceased to generate much profit) stopped being placed on auction. The result was a formerly-fun Thief who could no longer blind, slow, and paralyze monsters. A system in which all items were subject to this same issue of availability is not one I would enjoy; it would be as though I was but renting my favourite pieces and my best equipment.
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#12 Jan 11 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
KaneKitty wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:

Also, crafted items should eventually, over a very long time granted, break. Say a crafted item starts off at 100 durability. Each time you repair it, it loses a point. When it's durability reaches 0, the item's dust.]


I dislike the repair system now because, even after crafting/buying an item, it feels as though I don't truly own it because I must depend on others just to keep it in usable condition. A system that, essentially, makes all weapons and armour into slow-degrading consumables would only increase the interminable feeling of temporality that weighs upon me already.

I think that the largest problem would come from the cases in which there is nobody who continues to make certain consumable pieces in question. For example, I lost interest in Thief in FFXI once "rarer" crossbow bolts and Ninjutsu (due to the fact that they ceased to generate much profit) stopped being placed on auction. The result was a formerly-fun Thief who could no longer blind, slow, and paralyze monsters. A system in which all items were subject to this same issue of availability is not one I would enjoy; it would be as though I was but renting my favourite pieces and my best equipment.


The reasoning behind this idea was me trying to see how the future of XIV will be. As items currently never break, there will only be more, and more, and more of X weapon in the game. Unless of course someone willingly destroys or NPCs it. These items will always be in circulation; they'll never go away.

Now, for your more rare, NM dropped items/ingredients for said rare shiny, that's ok. But for run-of-the-mill armor and weapons, it's going to just keep lowering their value due to there being so many floating around. Eventually, you'll have had so many made that there's just statistically more likely to be more HQs floating around.

So then, you'll have these items that are just getting more worthless, and people are potentially/(likely) going to be looking for HQs instead. Basically I foresee happening in XIV what happened to XI. NQ = worthless and total loss to synth, HQ = only way to go.



Also, it was players like you that made me and my friend rich in XI Smiley: wink When we saw nobody was making such things as the (lesser) ninjutsu tools anymore, we figured we'd get ourselves into that little niche. Paid off big time. Turns out people did still want them, but there were just so few people selling. Easy synths, easy money!
#13 Jan 11 2011 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
The reasoning behind this idea was me trying to see how the future of XIV will be. As items currently never break, there will only be more, and more, and more of X weapon in the game. Unless of course someone willingly destroys or NPCs it. These items will always be in circulation; they'll never go away.

Now, for your more rare, NM dropped items/ingredients for said rare shiny, that's ok. But for run-of-the-mill armor and weapons, it's going to just keep lowering their value due to there being so many floating around. Eventually, you'll have had so many made that there's just statistically more likely to be more HQs floating around.

So then, you'll have these items that are just getting more worthless, and people are potentially/(likely) going to be looking for HQs instead. Basically I foresee happening in XIV what happened to XI. NQ = worthless and total loss to synth, HQ = only way to go.


I really cringe at having my items gradually fade into (digital) nothingness, but the argument certainly makes sense from an economical standpoint now that you added a bit of clarification. I had never considered that aspect of the economy (even though I thought about the workings of the FFXI economy a lot!).

The only problem I see now involves the state of the economy when many players are high-level with their unbreakable "rare shinies," because it seems to lapse back into a state of saturation. On one hand, it would be terrible to make repeat NM-hunting a standard fare but, on the other, a solution to item overpopulation cannot come without the removal of items.

What if items didn't degrade, but could only be sold a limited number of times? Perhaps they become "used" after they change hands a few times. Ah, but then that's not really any different from "soulbound" equipment! I'm curious if you have any other thoughts (maybe write a special economic-manifesto-editorial that tackles this selfsame variety of problems; I'd read it!).

Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Also, it was players like you that made me and my friend rich in XI Smiley: wink When we saw nobody was making such things as the (lesser) ninjutsu tools anymore, we figured we'd get ourselves into that little niche. Paid off big time. Turns out people did still want them, but there were just so few people selling. Easy synths, easy money!


I wish you guys were on my server. >:[
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#14 Jan 11 2011 at 7:25 PM Rating: Default
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I've kind of said this in another thread already, but I think big potential of FFXIV is the world and its ability to expand. I know we are all looking for new and untold content for FFXIV, and some people are crying for COP and FFXI-2. Others still, want FFVII-2. The potential of FFXIV is that all of these things can be delivered to the customer.

Games are being re-released all the time now, and most of he FF titles have received some sort of royal treatment in remastering and releasing once again as a classic title. The remake I want is FFIV, and would love to play through as my avatar in FFXIV. Perhaps I could even learn how to summon a few espers in the journey. The release of FFVII content would satisfy many people's cry for a release of a pimped out FFVII. Maybe an airship might take us to Baron Castle someday.
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#15 Jan 11 2011 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
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WolfOak wrote:
The remake I want is FFIV, and would love to play through as my avatar in FFXIV. Perhaps I could even learn how to summon a few espers in the journey. The release of FFVII content would satisfy many people's cry for a release of a pimped out FFVII. Maybe an airship might take us to Baron Castle someday.


Final Fantasy XIV has ninety-nine problems, but slash-fic should not be one.

Plus, I am not sure how adding a new central character to various classic FFs while drastically changing the respective games' mechanics would qualify as re-releases... it sounds more like shameless exploitation ripe for some last-ditch, $5 add-on content. >_<
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#16 Jan 11 2011 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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When I was invited to the Rift beta, I saw the game did have polish, however, it was Blizzard's polishing. It 80% WoW with UI addons (right down to their version of murlocs), 10% EQ, and 10% Rifts. I cannot stress the fact more, that FFXIV has got to stand on it's own merits. I understand that MMOs evolve by taking bits and pieces from other MMOs, but if Rift (A WoW clone would be an understatement.), is the future of MMOs, then I prefer to stay in the ninche, where MMOs strive for innovation, instead of making a quick buck based on plagerism.

Needless to say I hope SE sticks with their vision of Crafting, Gathering, and Battling. Maybe we will see some more refinement from the advanced classes, when they are implemented, I have a sneaking suspision that the classes we are given now, are the subs, to the advanced classes, would explain why they are more generalized. I'm willing to bet the new classes are the missing link in hybrid creation. (Specualtion of course, but since FFXI did have that same generic class base, before the advanced classes were added, I suspect that's exactly where FFXIV is headed)

Crafting and Gathering are unique, actual classes with an actual endgame, is highly innovative, but more information on stats and how they influence both, would probably take alot of the randomness out of it. Even Battling classes could use a little more information.

The UI could stand to be more PC friendly. Hopefullly that is still on the list of priority fixes. The way they have handled patches so far has but nothing short of exceptional. I hope they continue to do so.

The bottom line, no more clones, FFXIV needs to remain as FFXIV.



Edited, Jan 11th 2011 10:27pm by Spyrit178
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#17 Jan 11 2011 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
What the system looks like now is just a bunch of potluck abilities used on whichever weapon people prefer. What I would like to see, is actual well defined classes, who can still incorporate great abilities from other classes. I think if they were to make most abilities stronger and class specific, while offering a few abilities that would do well on other classes. Also, rather than weakening cross class abilities, have them require more Action points to equip.


I agree with these ideas. I was playing LNC today, and used Circle Slash more than Skewer on my Leves (killing Sand Yarzons). Another idea I've been tossing around in my head is to have skill-ups for individual abilities, and either give a bonus to ability points when you use an ability as the class it belongs to, or only give ability points when you are on the class the ability belongs to. Of course, the downside of this system would be when certain players/LS' decide that X ability is the best, and must be fully skilled, so everyone only trains Y class that X ability belongs to. The same thing could happen now, but it would probably be exaggerated even further by adding skillable tiers for each ability.
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#18 Jan 13 2011 at 5:45 AM Rating: Default
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:

Also, crafted items should eventually, over a very long time granted, break. Say a crafted item starts off at 100 durability. Each time you repair it, it loses a point. When it's durability reaches 0, the item's dust.]


I dislike the repair system now because, even after crafting/buying an item, it feels as though I don't truly own it because I must depend on others just to keep it in usable condition. A system that, essentially, makes all weapons and armour into slow-degrading consumables would only increase the interminable feeling of temporality that weighs upon me already.

I think that the largest problem would come from the cases in which there is nobody who continues to make certain consumable pieces in question. For example, I lost interest in Thief in FFXI once "rarer" crossbow bolts and Ninjutsu (due to the fact that they ceased to generate much profit) stopped being placed on auction. The result was a formerly-fun Thief who could no longer blind, slow, and paralyze monsters. A system in which all items were subject to this same issue of availability is not one I would enjoy; it would be as though I was but renting my favourite pieces and my best equipment.


The reasoning behind this idea was me trying to see how the future of XIV will be. As items currently never break, there will only be more, and more, and more of X weapon in the game. Unless of course someone willingly destroys or NPCs it. These items will always be in circulation; they'll never go away.

Now, for your more rare, NM dropped items/ingredients for said rare shiny, that's ok. But for run-of-the-mill armor and weapons, it's going to just keep lowering their value due to there being so many floating around. Eventually, you'll have had so many made that there's just statistically more likely to be more HQs floating around.

So then, you'll have these items that are just getting more worthless, and people are potentially/(likely) going to be looking for HQs instead. Basically I foresee happening in XIV what happened to XI. NQ = worthless and total loss to synth, HQ = only way to go.



Also, it was players like you that made me and my friend rich in XI Smiley: wink When we saw nobody was making such things as the (lesser) ninjutsu tools anymore, we figured we'd get ourselves into that little niche. Paid off big time. Turns out people did still want them, but there were just so few people selling. Easy synths, easy money!


Can we get you to develop for this game plz ?
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#19 Jan 13 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Default
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Just a thought..... Allow surplus sp to accumulate in some % towards Guild Marks in that class. Solves the challenges of hoping for Guild Marks on local leve's. Also gives those grinding a DoW through surplus some benefit from it. Just a thought.
#20 Jan 13 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Crafting and Gathering are unique, actual classes with an actual endgame, is highly innovative, but more information on stats and how they influence both, would probably take alot of the randomness out of it. Even Battling classes could use a little more information.


Discipline of the Land
Indications as to which attributes are most important to classes within the Discipline of the Land can be found in-game by closely examining the gathering-related abilities obtained via guild marks. Again, for those not willing to invest that sort of time, we have listed the relationships below.


Class ---- Attribute
Miner --- VIT, MND
Botanist - STR, INT
Fisher --- DEX, PIE



Discipline of the Hand
The effect of attributes on synthesis is limited. When attempting to craft a high-quality item, however, the likelihood of success increases as the attribute most closely associated with the tool being used rises. As the attributes associated with the main and off hand tools of each class are different, players may wish to give careful consideration to the class on which they wish to focus. A list showing the attributes related with the main and off hand tools of each class can be found below.



Class Related Attribute
------------Main Hand Tool -- Off Hand Tool
Carpenter ------ VIT ----------- DEX
Blacksmith ----- STR ----------- MND
Armorer -------- VIT ----------- STR
Goldsmith ------ DEX ----------- INT
Leatherworker -- VIT ----------- INT
Weaver --------- DEX ----------- MND
Alchemist ------ INT ----------- PIE
Culinarian ----- MND ----------- PIE

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 3:14pm by Hugus
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#21 Jan 13 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
Class ---- Attribute
Miner --- VIT, MND
Botanist - STR, INT
Fisher --- DEX, PIE


Am I the only one that boggled at that? It would make more sense for STR to be associated with mining, seeing as you're hitting solid rock with a pickaxe.

Also, what's so pious about fishing?
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#22 Jan 13 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pray for the fish to bite?

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 3:49pm by Hugus
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#23 Jan 13 2011 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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Quanta wrote:
Hugus wrote:
Class ---- Attribute
Miner --- VIT, MND
Botanist - STR, INT
Fisher --- DEX, PIE


Am I the only one that boggled at that? It would make more sense for STR to be associated with mining, seeing as you're hitting solid rock with a pickaxe.

Also, what's so pious about fishing?


Why would you need mind as a miner ?

or str as a botanist ?

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#24 Jan 13 2011 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Fishing has been a religous (or pious) topic since the earliest of days. The ocean was/is chaotic in nature compared to man on land. Since the most primative times, man has often viewed successful fishing (or aquiring food/survival) out of the ocean (or lakes and rivers for that matter) as prosperity endowed by the gods - or in the world of FFXIV, our Guardian's Favor. Ancient Greeks/Romans would seek blessings and offer sacrifices before setting out to sea to find prosperous catches. Later the Christians used fishing as an allusion to the process of fishing, whereby the faithful was like a fisherman who spread to word of God - some people would be caught, some would get away, and all was by God's will (the process of bearing Order/prosperity out of Chaos.)
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#25 Jan 13 2011 at 8:57 PM Rating: Default
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Come on <.< Do you guys want this game to FAIL!?!

Well keep posting all your ideas on how SE can unleash all of FFXIV potential :)
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#26 Jan 13 2011 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Also, crafted items should eventually, over a very long time granted, break. Say a crafted item starts off at 100 durability. Each time you repair it, it loses a point. When it's durability reaches 0, the item's dust. Of course, this would require that item durability be heavily buffed from where it is now.


I'm actually not a fan of this idea. I think what we have now is already too hard on the lower level gear economy. As long as it takes the same time to craft a level 10 item, as a level 40 item, the non SPing crafters will always make the 40 ones, theres more money in it. Even if they were making lower level stuff, there is a good chance that it would be overpriced.
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