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Partying: It doesn't have to be a clusterf#*kFollow

#52 Jan 11 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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One thing I would add, and this is really basic, is that if aggroing multiple mob groubs, for people to attack only the mobs whose names are in red. The number of times I have been in a random behest, and all the mobs go down quick, but we have only got about a third of the SP, as so many mobs died without giving SP.


I totally forgot to add that as a tip, thanks for reminding me.
#53 Jan 11 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Read through the whole thing. Awesome guide /thumbsup! The information regarding the healing was tops. I never considered tanks using own heal abilities to generate additional agro themselves. Thanks for opening my eyes :)
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#54 Jan 11 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure one of the admins might have already suggested it, but you might want to look into making this a wiki article. Either way, good job!
#55 Jan 11 2011 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure one of the admins might have already suggested it, but you might want to look into making this a wiki article. Either way, good job!


No one has actually suggested that yet, I'll look into it. thanks!
#56 Jan 11 2011 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe it's because I'm low level but I can solo orange-red mobs fairly easily. I get 800 xp and 400 sp as well. Most often I choose to just chain blues-greens for 70-100 a pop, but only because it's a pain running around looking for mobs to fight. Not to mention my health and mp are almost always full. I think I'd take a camp with 10 yellows over greens though.

Then again, I'm just good at video games. Some people can't think/react quickly enough to do anything that requires a bit of effort. FFXIV is an MMO in slow motion though, I can't really see why people fail so hard in groups anymore.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 4:00pm by GuardianFaith
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#57 Jan 11 2011 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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THA as support? What?

As a THA we can enfeeble but honistly enfeebles seem a bit gimp at the moment. However our healing is easily equal to CON if not more since the regen is sick! I meet many CON who are jealous of our healing abilities, our cone AoE is so big that if your standing on the moon it could prob still hit you.

Also we can damage like a maniac, many times I hit 600-1200 with Shadowsear and 400-600 with scourge and banish and thats on mobs worth fighting! Like 3-4 star LQ40s.

So yeah THA rock!

Edit- Hat off to you hungerforce for the guide. We dont need it YET since the games fighting style is a huge *********** at the moment. When I do runs with LS we do tend to do tactic based things, very simple like sleep etc but at the moment the rewards and increase in SP with the stars seems rather minimal based on the time and effort. Really is better to do lower star and breeze through mobs etc. Saying that when the game starts kicking into gear people will need to pick themselves up and learn properly or be left in the dust :)

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 7:18pm by wallace87
#58 Jan 11 2011 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't say they're gimp, I <3 Slow and Poison on enemies, but yes Sacrifice > Cure in terms of HP/Overtime.
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#59 Jan 11 2011 at 6:29 PM Rating: Default
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yes some on their own like slow are good but I just mean overall. They dont seem all that great as a collective now, let alone when your dealing with HNMs
#60 Jan 11 2011 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
THA as support? What?

As a THA we can enfeeble but honistly enfeebles seem a bit gimp at the moment. However our healing is easily equal to CON if not more since the regen is sick! I meet many CON who are jealous of our healing abilities, our cone AoE is so big that if your standing on the moon it could prob still hit you.

Also we can damage like a maniac, many times I hit 600-1200 with Shadowsear and 400-600 with scourge and banish and thats on mobs worth fighting! Like 3-4 star LQ40s.


This is because no one is specializing towards class specific roles
#61 Jan 11 2011 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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Added quite a few good tips...
#62 Jan 11 2011 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
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People claiming to be getting 400+ sp per kill is referring to Leves + Levelink, in which even blue mobs will give you that much sp. SP gain from 1 star to 2 stars another is like 20% boost or something along those lines but take 2x the time to kill. Also they don't need BR in order to be killed whereas some do.

The problem is that most of the hard mobs don't generate much TP making it very difficult to use WS BR attacks, and it's very noticable when trying to take down NMs as.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 9:22pm by Kazuyakun
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#63 Jan 11 2011 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
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People claiming to be getting 400+ sp per kill is referring to Leves + Levelink, in which even blue mobs will give you that much sp. SP gain from 1 star to 2 stars another is like 20% boost or something along those lines but take 2x the time to kill. Also they don't need BR in order to be killed whereas some do.

The problem is that most of the hard mobs don't generate much TP making it very difficult to use WS BR attacks, and it's very noticable when trying to take down NMs as.

It's been stated numerous times the 400+ SP is on leves.
But sayiing mobs take 2x longer to kill is false. If done right it won't take long. I just had a 15 man group doing 5 stars and on average we completed each leve in under 10 min. I got well over 20k in a litte over an hour. This party ended literally 20 min ago.

I can still get 200+ SP on single mobs in a party. Just need the right setup and the right mobs. And no I'm not talking about coblyns and doblyns

And tp generation takes longer on harder mods due to higher evasion and poor positioning hindering your accuracy.
This can be countered by proper build technique, gear and many spells and abilities.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 9:52pm by hungerforce
#64 Jan 11 2011 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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hungerforce wrote:
III) Gear: What to wear, and most importantly, what not to wear


Wear gear at or below your current rank and in support of your class and role. Period. Going above your rank only hinders the party as far as your effectiveness and not to mention yourself financially.

You're not as effective if you have impaired stats or have to stop and get your gear repaired every 45min. I fyou want to wear r50 gear at r30 while soloing go ahead but please dont punish others during party play by doing so.


You don't have to get your armour repaired every 45 min because it's overleveled >_> I wore Bronze Cuirass set from r31 and I get it repaired like, every 3 days. And if you know what you can do to remain enimity-less even though you're dealing a huge chunk of dmg, you can go for look > stat. In big party even with 4 star mole-death-machine or mongrels, I tend to be the last one died (if we got wiped) :P

And out of curiosity, why do people always take GLD = Gladiator? Official SE GLD = Goldsmith, gimme my class abbreviation back!
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#65 Jan 11 2011 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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This is very exciting for me because I actually started working on more of a 'formation' than the specific tactics beyond the tanking role. last night had a LS leve/behest party going and found that pulling is not as effective as it was in xi because of the ranged abilities (see imps).. I found the easiest way to do this is to have the back line form a crescent facing the mob and have the tank cross the mob and engage, voke, taunt whatever. And keep the back of the mob toward the back line while they keep range... and have the DD hit the back of the mob too. this ensures not only aoe protection but cone protection too... what you end up with in bigger parties is a C shape with a dot in the middle where the dot is your mobs and tanks, and the c being your backline/ ranged.. Try this instead of pulling, send your tank out to cross the mob, engage, and then move your backline into position. You will find much better survivability... Still some flaws in this specific formation but at the moment We are evolving and testing it, and outside of behests and cactaur seem to work just fine... Since 1000 needles is spread evenly now i encourage my back line to come in and enjoy that with me...


#66 Jan 11 2011 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
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This was very helpful, thank you for the guide! All the stuff I wanted to know, but was too shy to bug people about. ;)

Playing briefly as a Conjurer, I quickly learned that AoE buffing the party during battle was a GREAT way to get all the mobs to come at me! But whenever I do AoE healing during battle as a Thaumaturge, I don't really notice this effect. And my experience with parties is almost solely from behest, so it isn't as though there is a lot of super awesome hate management strategy going on. xD Could it be due to the fact that I have to stand way back to get everyone in my AoE, maybe? How curious (or maybe just lucky).
#67 Jan 11 2011 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Must be because you're R30... doing R30 leves rather than 40...

R40 leves have this mob called Mongrels, and at 5 stars it's very difficult because they heal like crazy, also not 100% sure but I think you get less SP per mob the higher your rank regardless of their difficulty.

Also R30 leves are much much shorter since you get fewer mobs, and usually less running depending on what you are killing. Your 15 man party also means u got a ton of a leve links hence the reason you got the kinda SP, in such short time.
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#68 Jan 12 2011 at 1:05 AM Rating: Default
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I would humbly submit for consideration that the OP is mistaken...partying does have to be a random instance of group fornication, and I intend to demonstrate why.

1) MMOs are tuned under the assumption that your average player is only approximately half as good as they actually think they are. If your generic group experience typically went smoothly and with little to no boneheadery, stupid mistakes, 25 minute bio breaks, and other associated lunacy, the developer would be forced to respond by tuning generic content so that it could no longer be successfully cleared while activating your abilities with your nose and cheekbones. SE tried this once. They called it "Chains of Promathia." Aren't they still nerfing that at least once every 3 months to try and get the last few stragglers through it?

2) Picture all the glass in the world. Now stack it all up and smash it all in one decisive blow. Imagine the sound it would make. That would be approximately half as loud as the sound of so many shattered delusions of grandeur when your average player suddenly wakes up one day to find themselves mystically bestowed with the knowledge contained in the sacred tome entitled, "How Not to be a Baddie Rev. 14."

3) Within the universe exists a balance of densities. Suddenly making it clear to someone that the reason their average party sucks is largely because of them and not the people they group with, multiplied by the majority of people playing a game, would cause such a sudden and widespread shrinkage of e-peen as to risk a dramatic shift in that universal balance. You hear it here first, kids. The apocalypse will not come as a result of global warming or man's moral turpitude. The world will shudder to a halt as a result of the sudden vacuum created by so many instantly shrunken e-peens.

4) If other people didn't suck, how else would you feel good about yourself?

5) In any party full of Mi'qote, cluster@#%^s are highly recommended.

6) lolcyborz

7) ???

8) Profit.

Edit: Wow...some people apparently take this stuff very seriously. lewl

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 7:24am by Aurelius
#69 Jan 12 2011 at 1:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Must be because you're R30... doing R30 leves rather than 40...

R40 leves have this mob called Mongrels, and at 5 stars it's very difficult because they heal like crazy, also not 100% sure but I think you get less SP per mob the higher your rank regardless of their difficulty.

Also R30 leves are much much shorter since you get fewer mobs, and usually less running depending on what you are killing. Your 15 man party also means u got a ton of a leve links hence the reason you got the kinda SP, in such short time.


I've done 40's and I've already mentioned that the mongrel healing can be stopped and countered....

People are getting off topic of this post. The point of the post is higher difficulty mobs can be taken easily with a little strategy and thought put into it.
#70 Jan 12 2011 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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You don't have to get your armour repaired every 45 min because it's overleveled >_> I wore Bronze Cuirass set from r31 and I get it repaired like, every 3 days. And if you know what you can do to remain enimity-less even though you're dealing a huge chunk of dmg, you can go for look > stat. In big party even with 4 star mole-death-machine or mongrels, I tend to be the last one died (if we got wiped) :P

And out of curiosity, why do people always take GLD = Gladiator? Official SE GLD = Goldsmith, gimme my class abbreviation back!


were you playing a tank class? and I'm referring more to the weapon, I"ve admitted gear is slower than weapons on damage. Read the replies.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 2:20am by hungerforce
#71 Jan 12 2011 at 2:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you'll be fighting a lot of Ice Elementals then EVERYONE in party should have their points leaning towards ICE for resistance and FIRE for damage.


Elemental points are "affinity". You just need Fire points to resist Ice.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=23959
Quote:
Elements
Increases damage dealt by attacks of that element
Reduces damage taken from attacks of the opposing element


~

/cheer for the guide to be read.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 3:03am by GenzaiKawakami
#72 Jan 12 2011 at 2:33 AM Rating: Good
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hungerforce wrote:
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Must be because you're R30... doing R30 leves rather than 40...

R40 leves have this mob called Mongrels, and at 5 stars it's very difficult because they heal like crazy, also not 100% sure but I think you get less SP per mob the higher your rank regardless of their difficulty.

Also R30 leves are much much shorter since you get fewer mobs, and usually less running depending on what you are killing. Your 15 man party also means u got a ton of a leve links hence the reason you got the kinda SP, in such short time.


I've done 40's and I've already mentioned that the mongrel healing can be stopped and countered....

People are getting off topic of this post. The point of the post is higher difficulty mobs can be taken easily with a little strategy and thought put into it.


I don't know about that part, I believe it's more on what the Mongrel decide to do or not. I tried to Inhibited + wiping TP on Mongrel (Moonrise II + Twisting Vice), and it still Sanguine Bite right after TP wipe, so it's not a TP move. Incapacitated, I'm not sure, but other mobs Incapacitate doesn't exactly stop the special attack for some. For example Goblin, incap right arm doesn't stop its right arm to throw grenade or firecracker.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 3:34am by Khornette
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#73 Jan 12 2011 at 2:45 AM Rating: Good
Khornette wrote:
hungerforce wrote:
Quote:
Must be because you're R30... doing R30 leves rather than 40...

R40 leves have this mob called Mongrels, and at 5 stars it's very difficult because they heal like crazy, also not 100% sure but I think you get less SP per mob the higher your rank regardless of their difficulty.

Also R30 leves are much much shorter since you get fewer mobs, and usually less running depending on what you are killing. Your 15 man party also means u got a ton of a leve links hence the reason you got the kinda SP, in such short time.


I've done 40's and I've already mentioned that the mongrel healing can be stopped and countered....

People are getting off topic of this post. The point of the post is higher difficulty mobs can be taken easily with a little strategy and thought put into it.


I don't know about that part, I believe it's more on what the Mongrel decide to do or not. I tried to Inhibited + wiping TP on Mongrel (Moonrise II + Twisting Vice), and it still Sanguine Bite right after TP wipe, so it's not a TP move. Incapacitated, I'm not sure, but other mobs Incapacitate doesn't exactly stop the special attack for some. For example Goblin, incap right arm doesn't stop its right arm to throw grenade or firecracker.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 3:34am by Khornette


I can confirm that incapacitating the head prevents it from using Sanguine Bite, just like disabling Galago/Lemur Legs prevents them from using their kick attack (forget the name). Unfortunately LNC can't incapacitate haeds without using MRD, ARC or PUG tier II weaponskills Khorn so we are out of luck or have to level another job to 24ish.
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#74 Jan 12 2011 at 5:27 AM Rating: Excellent
Thank you for posting this information. It has generated mostly healthy debate in the community and will make some people go out there and try this. I have little experience in big party setups in FFXIV and mostly do small groups of anywhere from 2-6 people. I have recently taken part in a grind where we did BR's and all had more traditional grind roles (Tank, Healer, DD etc) and it worked very well but we were experimenting at the time so not everything was the same as what you would expect. Its good that people are starting to do this though as this gaem needs some people to just go out there and start to push things a little more. Regarding healing at higher ranks, I have found that as long as I dont aoe heal at the very start of a fight or crazy spam sacrifice or Cure (and by this spam over and over for whole fight) I am usually left alone. THM's have a move called siluoette that has -emnity on it, this helps a little. When fighting tough mobs in a grind party the only time I pulled hate was when we got an add or agro'd something well over our party's range and even then it was rare that we all went down (us THM can take a hit or two :P). So as mages get higher they can still nuke, buff, debuff and heal away without getting the mob turning on them. One very very important and critical factor in this though is the Tank - If they know how to tank and are good-excellent at it you can practically get away with anyhting. I have played with an excellent tank in my LS and have played with not too good ones (ok they were very poor but I was trying to be kind), it makes a massive difference. I suppose this could be said for any role though.
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#75 Jan 12 2011 at 5:30 AM Rating: Good
Grrr so sorry for double post - **** internet at work (shouldn't be using it here anyway lol)

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 11:31am by EdyNOTB
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#76 Jan 12 2011 at 5:43 AM Rating: Default
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rules are boring, i love rushing down with a thm/con but thm more, im a mage with fleet of feet i'll always lead the attack/pulling, even with not much hp left,is part of the fun, non-stop freaking action. dart, tp, shield bash, nuke, heal, buff, debuff, you name it.


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#77 Jan 12 2011 at 9:43 AM Rating: Default
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Omena wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:

Also, provoke/taunt dont seem to work as one would think. They dont appear to really generate much hate, instead it seems they temporarily grab the mobs attention. As such, its important to do abilities that actually generate enmity such as heavy stab, healing, etc. Tossing in vokes and taunts throughout the fight is a great way to keep the monster on you, however.

Are you sure this isn't simply an issue of using Taunt /Provoke to open the fight? The first move never generates any hate, only places you on the hate list. I think it's terrible (and, surprise, not how it worked in FFXI) but that's how it is.


If Provoke and Taunt came with a threat spike, the game would be broken. There's a reason why tank classes are given all kinds of threat generating abilities above and beyond Provoke and Taunt, but for people whose only experience with MMO tanking is FFXI it's apparently a tough concept to absorb. Provoke and Taunt are emergency cooldowns. They have extremely high stamina costs relative to other options. The only reason I didn't poke fun at the OP for recommending Provoke/Taunt as an opener is because he recommended a puller, in which case using Provoke to peel the mob off makes reasonable sense. For 40% of your stamina. If you insist on using a puller. Which not everyone would.
#78 Jan 12 2011 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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Manosuke the Irrelevant wrote:


I can confirm that incapacitating the head prevents it from using Sanguine Bite, just like disabling Galago/Lemur Legs prevents them from using their kick attack (forget the name). Unfortunately LNC can't incapacitate haeds without using MRD, ARC or PUG tier II weaponskills Khorn so we are out of luck or have to level another job to 24ish.


Concussive Blow II - R22 is the lowest rank head incapacitating skill
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#79 Jan 12 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Manosuke the Irrelevant wrote:
Khornette wrote:
hungerforce wrote:
Quote:
Must be because you're R30... doing R30 leves rather than 40...

R40 leves have this mob called Mongrels, and at 5 stars it's very difficult because they heal like crazy, also not 100% sure but I think you get less SP per mob the higher your rank regardless of their difficulty.

Also R30 leves are much much shorter since you get fewer mobs, and usually less running depending on what you are killing. Your 15 man party also means u got a ton of a leve links hence the reason you got the kinda SP, in such short time.


I've done 40's and I've already mentioned that the mongrel healing can be stopped and countered....

People are getting off topic of this post. The point of the post is higher difficulty mobs can be taken easily with a little strategy and thought put into it.


I don't know about that part, I believe it's more on what the Mongrel decide to do or not. I tried to Inhibited + wiping TP on Mongrel (Moonrise II + Twisting Vice), and it still Sanguine Bite right after TP wipe, so it's not a TP move. Incapacitated, I'm not sure, but other mobs Incapacitate doesn't exactly stop the special attack for some. For example Goblin, incap right arm doesn't stop its right arm to throw grenade or firecracker.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 3:34am by Khornette


I can confirm that incapacitating the head prevents it from using Sanguine Bite, just like disabling Galago/Lemur Legs prevents them from using their kick attack (forget the name). Unfortunately LNC can't incapacitate haeds without using MRD, ARC or PUG tier II weaponskills Khorn so we are out of luck or have to level another job to 24ish.


It's not

chopstx wrote:
I've also spent an evening Incapacitating their heads, and this did NOT prevent the bite. If anything it seemed to increase the time in between casts. I'm not sure about cast time, but after an incapacitation I did have to wait tens of seconds before the wolf attempted the move again.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 12:59pm by chopstx


I have had a fight where 4 stars Mongrel died without using Sanguine Bite once, and the fight lasted nearly a minute. I've came to a conclusion that you can not stop the Bite unless with stuff like Stun.
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#80 Jan 12 2011 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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You spelled Pugilist wrong.
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#81 Jan 13 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Although this may not be as critical as you make it seem, this will and should be a standard guide to live on for ages to come once the game is fully balanced out. I imagine this is how SE envisioned people playing FFXIV from the start. Weather the new dev team changes any parts of the game altering core elements, ie removing battle regimens or not remains to be seen. I thank you for the effort you put into this and enjoy the read. I like the part about balanced builds, you can loadstone people to see their builds. I LOL hard when seeing 50's who have 170STR 150DEX and lol->20VIT. No matter your party setup you are going to get hit at some point in time (maybe not until SE puts some serious content into the game) but even just for doing leve's for gods sakes at least balance out your stats to a reasonable lvl then push up the main ones till you see diminishing returns.
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