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So what were they doing for 6 years?Follow

#1 Jan 11 2011 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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Ok, this is not a bash the game thread. In fact, I kinda like the game. Even in it's current state. Maybe someone out there versed in game code could explain to me how something can be 1/2 way done after such a long period of time between it's conception and execution.

There are no quests in the game.
The entire landscape is copy-pasted in some way.
There is no end game.
The armory system, while a cool concept, is horrible at the moment.
Combat is sluggish, sometimes requiring a 1-2 second delay before an instant cast is performed.
There are what? 5 zones + being on a boat?

Ok enough of what it's lacking, that's not really the point. What I don't understand is how other companies can create a complete game in 2 or 3 years that's really awesome, and SE couldn't even finish one in 6 years of development. Some might say Blizzard is one of those companies that can develop a complete multiplayer game in 2 or 3 years. Some have taken them much longer, but at least when they were released they were complete.

Again, please don't take this negatively. I'm just having a tough time understanding how a corporation with 8+ years of MMO experience took this long to make something so unfinished. They didn't even have to worry about anything above the trees or below the water! You can't fly or swim so really, it's just a flat painted surface. . I just don't get it.
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#2 Jan 11 2011 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Most of that time was spent developing the technology needed to render realistically-sized ******* in an MMO.
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#3 Jan 11 2011 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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well from what i understand is, they stopped working directly on the game to work on there crystal tools engine which took about 1-2 years, so really this game has only been in direct developement for 2-3 years in a way
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#4 Jan 11 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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shady113 wrote:
well from what i understand is, they stopped working directly on the game to work on there crystal tools engine which took about 1-2 years, so really this game has only been in direct developement for 2-3 years in a way



This can't be true or this game is really slapped together.
2-3 years to build an MMO is incredibly little.
#5 Jan 11 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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yfaithfully wrote:
Most of that time was spent developing the technology needed to render realistically-sized ******* in an MMO.


Yet, there are no breast physics! What's the point if they don't jiggle!
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#6 Jan 11 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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^thats true

Actually a HUGE amount of time on this game was spent making characters look more realistic. If you look at how chars move in this game compared to other games and try out the 50 diff emotes for each race you will realize this quickly. They esentially used real people to make all the characters in this game -move- realistically.

Further, no MMO comes close graphics-wise to ffxiv. I mean the FFXIV world is pretty, but if you -really- want to be amazing, look at it in steroscopic 3d. Its seriously beautiful. I realize -some- parts of the land were copy pasted but this is normal in game devving. The only mistake they made is to not alter it -at all-, and to copy and paste parts that are visited a lot. Overall the world is huge and very unique. We are just limited to -half- or less of the world at the moment, and the rest has lots of 60+ mobs.

i honestly dont know how they screwed the UI up or any of that. I think they put way too much time into graphics and not into gameplay.
#7 Jan 11 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Your frustration is understandable as there are many others that feel the same way you do. As a result this topic has come up several times, and I don't see this thread ending well, unless everyone is already exhausted.

Azurymber wrote:
^thats true

Actually a HUGE amount of time on this game was spent making characters look more realistic. If you look at how chars move in this game compared to other games and try out the 50 diff emotes for each race you will realize this quickly. They esentially used real people to make all the characters in this game -move- realistically.


I'm sure any MMO in the last 10 years does this as well. I think though, as you point out, FFXIV spent a lot of extra time on this one to give what they felt were quality emotes/actions/movement. I really appreciate the effort on this, and I think it's one of their few saving graces.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 3:43pm by chopstx
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#8 Jan 11 2011 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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Yet, there are no breast physics! What's the point if they don't jiggle!


Seriously, if they jiggled...how much fighting/crafting would you actually do?


I'd probably create a new class called "Marathon Runner"

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 3:40pm by tmproff
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#9 Jan 11 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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well i know a lot of that time was spent developing there crystal tools engine, if i remember right they released the game early to get on the 2010 list and for marketing reasons. i remember reading something that they said the game should have been in development for another year or 2, so yeah that would explain some of the copy and pasted terrain and a lot of other things
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#10 Jan 11 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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chopstx wrote:
Your frustration is understandable as there are many others that feel the same way you do. As a result this topic has come up several times, and I don't see this thread ending well, unless everyone is already exhausted.


I was gone for a while so although I've seen threads of people complaining about what it was lacking, I never heard an answer as to why. I think someone got it right when they said that they were only actually making the game for 2-3 years tops, spending the rest of the time developing crystal tools to make FF13 and future FF titles. The visuals are very pretty, but it's also only dx9; which leads me to believe they completed their tool set quite a few years ago as dx9 is very outdated by today's standards. FFXI didn't have a whole lot when it was released and the cap was only 50 as well, so I do have hopes that the game will be "finished" in the future. I just think they had a small group of people working on it. Not enough to really get it done in all it's potential glory. In other words, although this was supposed to be "The best FF ever made", it was really just a side project the whole time that they were hyping.

*As long as people stay on the topic of duration of development and possible hiccups, this thread could be enlightening. If people start arguing about what game > this game and how much they hate it; then yes, this could be bad. :/

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 12:45pm by GuardianFaith
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#11 Jan 11 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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All I know is that the development of this game started affecting XI only after 2007.

They have said that they divided the XI team to work simultaneously on XI and XIV, which would explain the sudden cut in manpower and funding post-'07.

However, the crystal tools demo with Limsa Lominsa and XI characters in it was shown in 2005.. the engine was clearly only in development at that time though, so I don't think the project was anything more than a concept at that point.

Lastly, this game does not look like it has been developed in full force for more than 3 years. In addition, the timetable for general game development at SE Japan is around 2 years or so (as Nomura has said in one of the interviews this year) so it would make sense for them to have tried to fit this game into that timeframe as well.

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#12 Jan 11 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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They were making the game for 6 years.

Quote:
There are no quests in the game.


Yes there are, they just aren't common folk quests.

Quote:

The entire landscape is copy-pasted in some way.


All MMORPGs use copy-pasting, whether it's mobs, parts of landscapes or armor/weapon bases. It's noticable in XIV because it's a large landscape.

Quote:

There is no end game.


No MMORPG release with end-game in its vanilla phase because it's not the "endgame" point yet because they generally expand player's limits (level cap raise/stat raises etc) before plopping endgame events down.

Quote:

The armory system, while a cool concept, is horrible at the moment.
Combat is sluggish, sometimes requiring a 1-2 second delay before an instant cast is performed.
There are what? 5 zones + being on a boat?


All MMORPGS release with limited amount of zones, every single one of them. The only way they make up for it is through instanced events which gives the illusion there's more zones than there actually are. World of Warcraft began production a lot longer than "2-3 years before release" as did most other MMOs on out there or in progress. It also wasn't the most perfectly released MMO out there either, even reading over the patch notes and player experiences from it's beta (as I only played it when it released) it suffered the same issues all MMOs do, what they did differently was release content along side fixing what's broken, SE was focused on optimizing the game its first few months.

It's already common knowledge the game was released far too soon than it should have been, they even admit it was basically a mistake to release it when they did. MMORPGS always, always release incomplete, or there is zero room for expansion. You can't expand what it is complete or was it ever complete to begin with?

Even new MMOs that's been in progress for 2-5 years will be lacking upon release in one or many ways because that's just how MMORPGs are. Play FFXIII, it's not like they released Chapter 1 after what 7 years? Then Chapter 2 is released 2 years later, then Chapter 3 and so on, offline titles has to release complete whereas MMOs can release incomplete and be expanded overtime, what changed is players became window shoppers rather than show patience and let things play out.

Most games tend to have 1-3 years (or more) of research and planning then actual production which iirc FFXIV didn't begin production till around 2007, but was in the planning and design stages in 2005.
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#13 Jan 11 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Was only 5 years and they spent 3-4 of them working on Crystal Tools.
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#14 Jan 11 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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GuardianFaith wrote:
Ok, this is not a bash the game thread. In fact, I kinda like the game. Even in it's current state. Maybe someone out there versed in game code could explain to me how something can be 1/2 way done after such a long period of time between it's conception and execution.

There are no quests in the game.
The entire landscape is copy-pasted in some way.
There is no end game.
The armory system, while a cool concept, is horrible at the moment.
Combat is sluggish, sometimes requiring a 1-2 second delay before an instant cast is performed.
There are what? 5 zones + being on a boat?


Here's my thought with your post. Again only my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

- They mentioned that the game was gonna favor more towards the casual player.
- You can't expect there to be endgame at release of any new MMO game (Hardcore players would dis agree (but read line above)
- Combat sluggish (Cant really comment on it being only have my Conj up to 16 - haven't noticed any 1-2 delays with what I've played it so far)
- 5 zones is more then enough when just starting out in a new MMO. You can't have everything at release or they couldn't make and sell expansions - Expect new area's with expansions

Now for the fun part, the game was in the making for 5 years. This is a whole new team that started working on this project when it was called Rapture. Many of them may not have any experience in a MMO type format. If thats the case with very limited experience, in their eye's they thought it was where it should of been.

They were wrong. They under estimated the popularity of the FF name and its player base. All thought i don't have the exact numbers, there are a lot of people who played FFxi before trying out FFxiv and other MMO's as well. Questions keep popping up by all users with past MMO experience, Where is the AH? Delivery System? Methods of travel? Endgame?.. the list can go on and on. Like i mentioned in the paragraph above maybe this team had no MMO experience and are fresh out of school with their degree in programming.

With the changes in the development team, I'm expecting things to change drastically being some of the have past experience in what works and what people want. Time is always the issue, there never is enough time to get everything done you want to. (Sorry for the rather long post but just my thoughts on your topic.)
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#15 Jan 11 2011 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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tmproff wrote:
Quote:
Yet, there are no breast physics! What's the point if they don't jiggle!


Seriously, if they jiggled...how much fighting/crafting would you actually do?


I'd probably create a new class called "Marathon Runner"

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 3:40pm by tmproff


****, at least it would make the running animations more interesting.
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#16 Jan 11 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd sure run into a lot more trees and be eaten by antlings more often.
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.


#17 Jan 11 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Default
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
They were making the game for 6 years.

Quote:
There are no quests in the game.


Yes there are, they just aren't common folk quests.

Quote:

The entire landscape is copy-pasted in some way.


All MMORPGs use copy-pasting, whether it's mobs, parts of landscapes or armor/weapon bases. It's noticable in XIV because it's a large landscape.

Quote:

There is no end game.


No MMORPG release with end-game in its vanilla phase because it's not the "endgame" point yet because they generally expand player's limits (level cap raise/stat raises etc) before plopping endgame events down.

Quote:

The armory system, while a cool concept, is horrible at the moment.
Combat is sluggish, sometimes requiring a 1-2 second delay before an instant cast is performed.
There are what? 5 zones + being on a boat?


All MMORPGS release with limited amount of zones, every single one of them. The only way they make up for it is through instanced events which gives the illusion there's more zones than there actually are. World of Warcraft began production a lot longer than "2-3 years before release" as did most other MMOs on out there or in progress. It also wasn't the most perfectly released MMO out there either, even reading over the patch notes and player experiences from it's beta (as I only played it when it released) it suffered the same issues all MMOs do, what they did differently was release content along side fixing what's broken, SE was focused on optimizing the game its first few months.

It's already common knowledge the game was released far too soon than it should have been, they even admit it was basically a mistake to release it when they did. MMORPGS always, always release incomplete, or there is zero room for expansion. You can't expand what it is complete or was it ever complete to begin with?

Even new MMOs that's been in progress for 2-5 years will be lacking upon release in one or many ways because that's just how MMORPGs are. Play FFXIII, it's not like they released Chapter 1 after what 7 years? Then Chapter 2 is released 2 years later, then Chapter 3 and so on, offline titles has to release complete whereas MMOs can release incomplete and be expanded overtime, what changed is players became window shoppers rather than show patience and let things play out.

Most games tend to have 1-3 years (or more) of research and planning then actual production which iirc FFXIV didn't begin production till around 2007, but was in the planning and design stages in 2005.


like usually, thanks for spewing complete bulls*** in order to defend this game! you once again show us all you are an idiot!

The MMORPG Rift planes of telara is only in beta, it runs great. It has a lot of content, it will have end game raids on release, and the dev team actually listens and fixes things fast! and they actually communicate with the player! o and did i mention its only in beta?

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 4:09pm by ironmonk25
#18 Jan 11 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The MMORPG Rift planes of telara is only in beta, it runs great. It has a lot of content, it will have end game raids on release, and the dev team actually listens and fixes things fast! and they actually communicate with the player!


The company really has talented copy-pasters working for them.
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#19 Jan 11 2011 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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ironmonk25 wrote:

The MMORPG Rift planes of telara is only in beta, it runs great. It has a lot of content, it will have end game raids on release, and the dev team actually listens and fixes things fast! and they actually communicate with the player! o and did i mention its only in beta?


I still apologize that Rappelz was more fun than Rift.
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#20 Jan 11 2011 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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at least when you go to rift forums you see a lot more positive/praise threads then what you see here. You also get direct feedback from devs. Also when you try and help the community by posting how to fight or things to that effect you will get praise, unlike here where when someone tries and posts how groups should work together you get nothing but negitive feedback.

this community is awesome!
#21 Jan 11 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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I've been griping for years that modern gamers put appearance before gameplay, most notably when it comes to the "I won't play anything older than PS1 because the graphics are terrible" crowd who refuses to even look at an SNES or Genesis era game (never mind NES era).

FFXIV is just the MMORPG epitome of that. SE put all their time into graphics first and everything else later.

Don't get me wrong, the graphics look great. They really do. But they don't make up for the flaws in gameplay.
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#22 Jan 11 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I've been griping for years that modern gamers put appearance before gameplay, most notably when it comes to the "I won't play anything older than PS1 because the graphics are terrible" crowd who refuses to even look at an SNES or Genesis era game (never mind NES era).

FFXIV is just the MMORPG epitome of that. SE put all their time into graphics first and everything else later.

Don't get me wrong, the graphics look great. They really do. But they don't make up for the flaws in gameplay.


completely agree

and on a side note....just went to the zam rift forums and dear god that community is leaps and bounds ahead of this community....actually positive and supportive.....jesus, just seeing that made me hate this game that much more...and i didnt know that was possible
#23 Jan 11 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
this community is awesome!


Just like with any other MMO or game in existence, the in-game community is what matters, not what happens out-of-game.

And that can be applied to anything really. The devs make you feel warm inside on the forums? Gee, that makes the game so much better. But the game itself is not that important, aye?
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#24 Jan 11 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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I think there have been serious internal issues at SE for years. FFXII took ages to develop, FFXIII was a very bare bones tunnel run and Versus is still nowhere to be seen. It's like they're suffering from some serious efficiency leaks. I think the only reason we don't hear of rampant controversy within the company is because they're keeping it all under wraps for obvious reasons.

ironmonk25 wrote:
at least when you go to rift forums you see a lot more positive/praise threads then what you see here. You also get direct feedback from devs. Also when you try and help the community by posting how to fight or things to that effect you will get praise, unlike here where when someone tries and posts how groups should work together you get nothing but negitive feedback.

this community is awesome!

The Rift beta forum is full of posts complaining about revealing female armour, too fat female characters, overpowered clerics and performance issues. The last one is very legit as even though I run FFXIV at high settings at 40-60 FPS outside towns, Rift stutters along at less than 20 FPS when there is significant action on the screen. I probably don't have to point out that FFXIV is graphically years ahead of Rift. Rift also copy pasted pretty much half of the game systems from WoW. Other than that I think it's starting to look like a pretty decent game if it can avoid the pitfalls of playing it too safe, falling under the shadow of WoW, and failing to balance the very wide open class customization system that is ripe for finding imbalances.





Edited, Jan 11th 2011 4:30pm by Omena

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 4:34pm by Omena
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#25 Jan 11 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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FFXII took ages to develop, FFXIII was a very bare bones tunnel run and Versus is still nowhere to be seen. It's like they're suffering from some serious efficiency leaks.


This is just my uninformed opinion, but especially RPG's of the current gen are expected to be so packed of everything that it's no wonder the development takes so long.

Although they did have internal issues with XII as they have previously stated, and the crystal tools project did not progress as smoothly as they thought either. I think that engine caused them all these delays, not the actual game development itself. But I could be wrong.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 12:33am by Hyanmen
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#26 Jan 11 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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edit: Oh nevermind disregard please that was pretty mean

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 4:36pm by Libtech
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#27 Jan 11 2011 at 3:36 PM Rating: Default
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Omena wrote:
I think there have been serious internal issues at SE for years. FFXII took ages to develop, FFXIII was a very bare bones tunnel run and Versus is still nowhere to be seen. It's like they're suffering from some serious efficiency leaks. I think the only reason we don't hear of rampant controversy within the company is because they're keeping it all under wraps for obvious reasons.

ironmonk25 wrote:
at least when you go to rift forums you see a lot more positive/praise threads then what you see here. You also get direct feedback from devs. Also when you try and help the community by posting how to fight or things to that effect you will get praise, unlike here where when someone tries and posts how groups should work together you get nothing but negitive feedback.

this community is awesome!

The Rift beta forum is full of posts complaining about revealing female armour, too fat female characters, overpowered clerics and performance issues. The last one is very legit as even though I run FFXIV at high settings at 40-60 FPS outside towns, Rift stutters along at less than 20 FPS when there is significant action on the screen. I probably don't have to point out that FFXIV is graphically years ahead of Rift. Rift also copy pasted pretty much half of the game systems from WoW. Other than that I think it's starting to look like a pretty decent game if it can avoid the pitfalls of playing it too safe, falling under the shadow of WoW, and failing to balance the very wide open class customization system that is ripe for finding imbalances.





Edited, Jan 11th 2011 4:30pm by Omena

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 4:34pm by Omena


yep they are still tryinv to optimise the graphic, and it actually shows they have been working on it because it beta the fps has been increasing.

and still if you look at the beta forums, it has a lot more praise on any giving page then this game.
#28 Jan 11 2011 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
and still if you look at the beta forums, it has a lot more praise on any giving page then this game.


Amount of fanboys = how good a particular gaem is.
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#29 Jan 11 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Default
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ironmonk25 wrote:

and still if you look at the beta forums, it has a lot more praise on any giving page then this game.

Yes, though you have to remember that the beta tests of Rift have been very short, so people haven't been able to play enough to get bored of it. I played FFXIV a lot despite its glaring flaws, now I can't bring myself to log in, so instead I hang around the forums pointing out the logical fallacies of random white knights.

Rift doesn't have any glaring issues other than the poopy performance, however, it may just not be different enough. The graphics, while decent, don't offer anything new. The gameplay, at least for early levels, is almost exactly the same as in WoW and WAR. You have your quest grind and you have the Warfronts (read: Battlegrounds/Scenarios) you can join at any time, the items are colour coded just like in WoW and the chat box actually looks exactly the same down to the tiniest detail. There is just so much copy-pasta action going on it's almost embarrassing. Heck the Champion soul has almost exactly the same abilities as an Arms Warrior from WoW. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to re-invent the wheel, but I feel like Rift is overdoing it. Still, I don't feel like I'm qualified to go too much in-depth about the game as the beta was capped to L27 and the two days I had to play the latest version wasn't enough to get me to even that.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 4:50pm by Omena
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#30 Jan 11 2011 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
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they spent 6 years developing a game where the game play itself makes RMT very difficult. Look where that got them.

Omena wrote:
Yes, though you have to remember that the beta tests of Rift have been very short, so people haven't been able to play enough to get bored of it.

I was in the FFXIV beta. At the start, gameplay was limited to a few hours and not every day (like twice a week).

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 4:58pm by sideways
#31 Jan 11 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I was in the FFXIV beta. At the start, gameplay was limited to a few hours and not every day (like twice a week).


..And?
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#32 Jan 11 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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sideways wrote:
I was in the FFXIV beta. At the start, gameplay was limited to a few hours and not every day (like twice a week).

Yes, in closed beta (I was in it, too), but open beta lasted much longer.
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#33 Jan 11 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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I looked for pics of Rift's UI and I have to say... the game looks exactly like WoW, except with more realistic graphics than WoW's cartoony models.

From the chat box to the hot bars to the quest windows to the equipment panels, it might as well be WoW.

I mean really, is that what gamers want nowadays? They want every MMORPG to have the exact same UI? I mean, people complain about FFXIV's UI, but is this what they're clamoring for? Select WoW's UI, Ctrl+C, Select FFXIV's UI, Ctrl+V?

That's one thing I do like about FFXIV; at least the UI tries to look different. If I wanted to play WoW, I'd play WoW. WoW is fine and all for the people who want to play WoW, but I want to play something else, so I would prefer it -looks- like something else.
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#34 Jan 11 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I looked for pics of Rift's UI and I have to say... the game looks exactly like WoW, except with more realistic graphics than WoW's cartoony models.

From the chat box to the hot bars to the quest windows to the equipment panels, it might as well be WoW.

I mean really, is that what gamers want nowadays? They want every MMORPG to have the exact same UI? I mean, people complain about FFXIV's UI, but is this what they're clamoring for? Select WoW's UI, Ctrl+C, Select FFXIV's UI, Ctrl+V?

That's one thing I do like about FFXIV; at least the UI tries to look different. If I wanted to play WoW, I'd play WoW. WoW is fine and all for the people who want to play WoW, but I want to play something else, so I would prefer it -looks- like something else.


All cars have four wheels because it's the most efficient design we've had for personal conveyance to date. Until someone makes a more efficient UI that WoW's... it's going to be used and probably should be.
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#35 Jan 11 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I looked for pics of Rift's UI and I have to say... the game looks exactly like WoW, except with more realistic graphics than WoW's cartoony models.

From the chat box to the hot bars to the quest windows to the equipment panels, it might as well be WoW.

I mean really, is that what gamers want nowadays? They want every MMORPG to have the exact same UI? I mean, people complain about FFXIV's UI, but is this what they're clamoring for? Select WoW's UI, Ctrl+C, Select FFXIV's UI, Ctrl+V?


Yep, which is why I sit and wait to see how XIV progresses, since if I wanted to play WoW I'll play WoW or Rappelz >.>

hexaemeron wrote:

All cars have four wheels because it's the most efficient design we've had for personal conveyance to date. Until someone makes a more efficient UI that WoW's... it's going to be used and probably should be.


I dunno, bikes and motorcycles are pretty awesome.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 2:17pm by Theonehio
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#36 Jan 11 2011 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:


I dunno, bikes and motorcycles are pretty awesome.




So they are. But neither a bike nor a motorcycle is a car.
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#37 Jan 11 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:

All cars have four wheels because it's the most efficient design we've had for personal conveyance to date. Until someone makes a more efficient UI that WoW's... it's going to be used and probably should be.


I think the point was that not all cars should look like a Honda Accord. We all value it's long term reliability and resale value, but it's looks are out dated, bland and overused.

That's what turns me off from games like Rift too. The art style just doesn't interest me, and that includes the UI.

As far as the topic goes, I don't know what SE was doing other than what already been stated. Working on Crystal Tools and managing platforms.

I do like the effort in the graphics department and the 'weight' of my character though. If only that amount of polish went into everything else, we'd have a very awesome game on our hands.

#38 Jan 11 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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hexaemeron wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:


I dunno, bikes and motorcycles are pretty awesome.




So they are. But neither a bike nor a motorcycle is a car.


But they are a form of personal conveyance.

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#39 Jan 11 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:


I dunno, bikes and motorcycles are pretty awesome.




So they are. But neither a bike nor a motorcycle is a car.


But they are a form of personal conveyance.



Sure. I play games on my computer, on my DS and on my iPhone. The same UI would be ridiculous and unfortunate. That's my point. There's nothing wrong with WoW's UI except no one's innovated anything better to ring to the table.
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#40 Jan 11 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I looked for pics of Rift's UI and I have to say... the game looks exactly like WoW, except with more realistic graphics than WoW's cartoony models.

From the chat box to the hot bars to the quest windows to the equipment panels, it might as well be WoW.

I mean really, is that what gamers want nowadays? They want every MMORPG to have the exact same UI? I mean, people complain about FFXIV's UI, but is this what they're clamoring for? Select WoW's UI, Ctrl+C, Select FFXIV's UI, Ctrl+V?

That's one thing I do like about FFXIV; at least the UI tries to look different. If I wanted to play WoW, I'd play WoW. WoW is fine and all for the people who want to play WoW, but I want to play something else, so I would prefer it -looks- like something else.


All cars have four wheels because it's the most efficient design we've had for personal conveyance to date. Until someone makes a more efficient UI that WoW's... it's going to be used and probably should be.


For some aspects of games, I will agree with you that it's better to take something that works than to try to reinvent the wheel. The AH is one example. The UI is not one of them. There is no need to copy a UI exactly. Portrait in the upper left, in a circle, with your health and mana to the right of it, your party of exactly five people have their portraits below you, the chat box is exactly the same down to the very font they use, the hotbars go on the bottom and the right, the minimap in the upper left with the name of the zone above it, the NPCs with quests have a ! over their head to tell you they have a quest and a ? to tell you where to turn it in... yes, that's nice. It's been done.

Move **** around. Even in minor ways, such as putting the party in the lower right instead of upper left, put the minimap in the upper left instead, let the chat box be in a different shape with a different font, even going as far as calling player run groups "Linkshells" instead of guilds...

So long as it functions equally well, there's nothing wrong with designing things a little differently. In fact, it should be encouraged. Because, as I said... if I wanted to play WoW, I'd play WoW.
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#41 Jan 11 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:


I dunno, bikes and motorcycles are pretty awesome.




So they are. But neither a bike nor a motorcycle is a car.


But they are a form of personal conveyance.



Sure. I play games on my computer, on my DS and on my iPhone. The same UI would be ridiculous and unfortunate. That's my point. There's nothing wrong with WoW's UI except no one's innovated anything better to ring to the table.


To clarify: I don't feel that there is something wrong with WoW's UI; I simply feel that it is WoW's UI. If your game is not WoW, it should not be using WoW's UI.
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#42 Jan 11 2011 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, so no one has really gone in to detail about the process of creating it, which is what I was trying to get at. I was playing FFXI in 05 when I saw the Rapture concept, so 11-5 = 6 years between the concept and now. Just think the game is surprisingly unfinished for that long of a time period. Then again, what do I know.

As for everyone talking about rift. That game looks horrible. The animations are terrible and as Mik said, it's a WoW ripoff. If I want to play a game like WoW, I'll go back to WoW.

Maybe we should just lock this thread since it seems it's heading in the wrong direction.
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#43 Jan 11 2011 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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How are you guys counting zones?
Everyone seems to be set on the "5" number. Is everyone counting the dungeons in each zone as just part of that zone?

I've always used the XI way of counting zones for XIV. I consider Copperbell and Nanawa seperate zones. I know Nanawa may seem too small atm to call a zone, but it's MUCH bigger than what we can currently see. I'm guessing an update will open the rest up, but I digress...
Just saying that five zones seems to be an incorrect assesment for the whole of accessible areas currently.

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#44 Jan 11 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
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shady113 wrote:
well from what i understand is, they stopped working directly on the game to work on there crystal tools engine hit the bong, which took about 1-2 years, so really this game has only been in direct developement for 2-3 years in a way since they fired the dev. team three weeks ago


Fixed, I think...
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#45 Jan 11 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've wondered the same thing, and I have no answers.

The theory about most of the development time going into refining Crystal Tools might be true, but that doesn't mean they didn't have loads of preliminary design going on simultaneously.

Some pieces show a lot of time put into them, like the character art, or the city design, or the dialogue and backstory.

But what were the other teams doing? The majority of gameplay content is guildleves, and I'm pretty sure that a team of two or three people could have created them all literally in a matter of days or weeks. There's nothing to them but a couple dozen words of text and some enemy placement. The same goes for the outdoor areas -- once they had the pieces modeled, how long could it have taken to assemble them?

It feels like someone forgot to make the game.
#46 Jan 11 2011 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The majority of gameplay content is guildleves, and I'm pretty sure that a team of two or three people could have created them all literally in a matter of days or weeks. There's nothing to them but a couple dozen words of text and some enemy placement. The same goes for the outdoor areas -- once they had the pieces modeled, how long could it have taken to assemble them?


Can't really do any of that before the area design team has finished their work....

..and there is a reason why that development starts before anything else, and why that team is currently working on the expansion while everyone else works on the vanilla still.
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#47 Jan 11 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I looked for pics of Rift's UI and I have to say... the game looks exactly like WoW, except with more realistic graphics than WoW's cartoony models.

From the chat box to the hot bars to the quest windows to the equipment panels, it might as well be WoW.

I mean really, is that what gamers want nowadays? They want every MMORPG to have the exact same UI? I mean, people complain about FFXIV's UI, but is this what they're clamoring for? Select WoW's UI, Ctrl+C, Select FFXIV's UI, Ctrl+V?

That's one thing I do like about FFXIV; at least the UI tries to look different. If I wanted to play WoW, I'd play WoW. WoW is fine and all for the people who want to play WoW, but I want to play something else, so I would prefer it -looks- like something else.


All cars have four wheels because it's the most efficient design we've had for personal conveyance to date. Until someone makes a more efficient UI that WoW's... it's going to be used and probably should be.


For some aspects of games, I will agree with you that it's better to take something that works than to try to reinvent the wheel. The AH is one example. The UI is not one of them. There is no need to copy a UI exactly. Portrait in the upper left, in a circle, with your health and mana to the right of it, your party of exactly five people have their portraits below you, the chat box is exactly the same down to the very font they use, the hotbars go on the bottom and the right, the minimap in the upper left with the name of the zone above it, the NPCs with quests have a ! over their head to tell you they have a quest and a ? to tell you where to turn it in... yes, that's nice. It's been done.

Move sh*t around. Even in minor ways, such as putting the party in the lower right instead of upper left, put the minimap in the upper left instead, let the chat box be in a different shape with a different font, even going as far as calling player run groups "Linkshells" instead of guilds...

So long as it functions equally well, there's nothing wrong with designing things a little differently. In fact, it should be encouraged. Because, as I said... if I wanted to play WoW, I'd play WoW.


ok so then you dont want a new UI, you just want it to be asthetically different. moving things around, with different font, with a different shaped compass, doesn't make it new. in the end it is still exactly the same UI.

However, like most other games, i'm sure you can move and drag those things wherever you want so if you want it to look different, you can.

i also do not completely dissagree with you. it would be really nice if they gave you different options for UI skins so you can pick what you like the most.
#48 Jan 11 2011 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I looked for pics of Rift's UI and I have to say... the game looks exactly like WoW, except with more realistic graphics than WoW's cartoony models.

From the chat box to the hot bars to the quest windows to the equipment panels, it might as well be WoW.

I mean really, is that what gamers want nowadays? They want every MMORPG to have the exact same UI? I mean, people complain about FFXIV's UI, but is this what they're clamoring for? Select WoW's UI, Ctrl+C, Select FFXIV's UI, Ctrl+V?

That's one thing I do like about FFXIV; at least the UI tries to look different. If I wanted to play WoW, I'd play WoW. WoW is fine and all for the people who want to play WoW, but I want to play something else, so I would prefer it -looks- like something else.


This is a standard that has been set, the UI is extremely efficient and intuitive.

When I buy a FPS, I can toss the manual away w/o even looking at it, install the game and play it at 100% because I know the UI and control scheme before I even take it out of the box. Most FPS on the market are mechanically 90% identical. This doesn't make them all clones of each other.

It's only in the MMO world that a game is called a "clone" if they use a standard UI/Control scheme because it is the best. Instead game devs often times try to re-invent the wheel for the sake of being innovative and end up with some Frankenstein-ish clusterf'k of an interface.

There's a lot to be said about being able to just install a game and play comfortably the second you start up, because the UI is familiar and intuitive.



ps:
This UI/Control scheme wasn't invented by WoW just made popular. Off the top of my head, the only thing I saw in WoW that I didn't see in the games I played before it was the " ? " above NPC's heads.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 6:28pm by KristoFurwalken
#49 Jan 11 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes, the graphics are drop dead georgious, but thats what the graphic designers were doing for 5 years.

The programmers however were not. They probably wouldn't even know how.

My guess is that right up until it's launch, FFXIV was always a side project. Afterall Tanaka, in our perception was still the producer of FFXI up until early 2010. Meaning I assume alot of the team were working on both games. And work only really picked up 2008-2009, hence one of the worst years for FFXI. And then suddenly FFXI gets a new team and a new direction and FFXI has its best year yet in 2010.

It's no coincidence.
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#50 Jan 11 2011 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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When I buy a FPS, I can toss the manual away w/o even looking at it, install the game and play it at 100% because I know the UI and control scheme before I even take it out of the box. Most FPS on the market are mechanically 90% identical. This doesn't make them all clones of each other.


Thank you Valve/Sierra. Counter Srike ftw.
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#51 Jan 11 2011 at 5:58 PM Rating: Good
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I think a large part of that 5 year timeline was just them working with crystal tools. It really feels as though we've only got like 2-3 years of work on the game itself.


As far as UI's looking like wow's, I can't complain about that at all. Everything is easy to find, can be quickly opened with a mouse of a keybind, and its clear and uncluttered.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 7:00pm by KujaKoF
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