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So what were they doing for 6 years?Follow

#52 Jan 11 2011 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
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The funny thing about this whole UI discussion is that my WoW UI was made to look like FFXIV's long before FFXIV was even announced. I made a minimalist interface on WoW, with a single bar showing up when I entered combat. Most of my abilities memorized on keybinds. Only my single bar (that was invisible out of combat and changed to another set when I pressed CTRL or ALT, just like XIV's), unit frame, target, target of target, buff/debuff timers, and maybe Omen for raids were visible on-screen.

I never understood how people could play with half their screens blocked by random "raiding" addons and 50 action bars. Silly clickers.
#53 Jan 11 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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SoumaKyou wrote:

I never understood how people could play with half their screens blocked by random "raiding" addons and 50 action bars. Silly clickers.


Didn't you know? Seeing the game you're playing is inefficient. Smiley: sly
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#54 Jan 11 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
SoumaKyou wrote:

I never understood how people could play with half their screens blocked by random "raiding" addons and 50 action bars. Silly clickers.


Didn't you know? Seeing the game you're playing is inefficient. Smiley: sly

Inorite?

I actually saw a guy who had DamageMeters graphs of every single DPS in the raid open all over his screen during a fight with literally only 1/8th of his screen visible. When asked how the **** he played like that, he answered that he liked seeing everything that was going on.

Ironic.
#55 Jan 11 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
This is a standard that has been set, the UI is extremely efficient and intuitive.

When I buy a FPS, I can toss the manual away w/o even looking at it, install the game and play it at 100% because I know the UI and control scheme before I even take it out of the box. Most FPS on the market are mechanically 90% identical. This doesn't make them all clones of each other.


S.T.A.L.K.E.R or even METRO 2033 hardly has anything resemble a HUD for FPS, yet they are some of the best FPS in recent years.

Oh and most FPS were called Doom-clone until people are tired of it.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 7:47pm by Khornette

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Doom_clone_vs_first_person_shooter.png

Doom clones were more popular as a label than FPS.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 11:49pm by Khornette
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#56 Jan 11 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
It's only in the MMO world that a game is called a "clone" if they use a standard UI/Control scheme because it is the best.


Yes, because if my character is not constantly staring at me from a ring in the corner of my screen, it's an inferior UI! Because unless a three-inch slot of my lower action-bar is occupied by basic menu navigation buttons that nearly everybody opens with key-bindings, it's an inferior UI!

There are plenty of things about the "WoW UI" that are not "the best;" the "WoW UI" is not the absolute pinnacle of interface. You are acting like something is the most efficient inherently -- that the oft-used "WoW UI" is, as you said, simply "the best" -- but, in actuality, that very UI is only so efficient to you because you have grown so used it because everybody copies it!

You interact with the same menu in EverQuest, LotRO, WoW, Star Trek Online, Titan Quest, and just about everywhere else you turn until you internalize its mechanics -- until it seems downright ridiculous not to show a picture of five backpacks in the lower-right half of the screen -- but the fact is, the means one navigates this "standard UI," are not "the best;" they can be moved around and they can be improved.

The greatest inefficiency is not inherent in new UI designs, it's in learning how to use them: something that you (and many of us) have grown unaccustomed to in recent years.
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#57 Jan 11 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Default
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
It's only in the MMO world that a game is called a "clone" if they use a standard UI/Control scheme because it is the best.

Wow, I didn't even see this post.

WoW's UI is the best? HAHAHA. No.

In a direct UI vs UI comparison, XIV's is way better than WoW's default UI. XIV's UI has functionality that you'd have to mod WoW's UI for.

What makes WoW's UI so good is that you could completely change it. Otherwise, the default UI blows.
#58 Jan 11 2011 at 7:13 PM Rating: Decent
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As far as the UI goes, I think most new MMOs use the WoW model because that is what the majority of MMO players know. A developer has two choices: Copy WoW UI or build something new. Regardless of "efficiency" it's better to copy the WoW model simply because doing so reduces the game's learning curve and leads to more player retention. FFXIV is evidence of the opposite; how many people quit solely because of the UI in the first month? How many people would have quit because of the UI if they copied the WoW UI?

My personal preference is for something new, and with a few more adjustments I think the FFXIV UI will be just fine. But it's no wonder why developers choose to copy the world's most popular MMO's UI: Lower learning curve and less development time.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 7:17pm by Hydragyrum
#59 Jan 11 2011 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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But it's no wonder why developers choose to copy the world's most popular MMO's UI: Lower learning curve and less development time.


In this case not so much so, but also: less risks. If you do the tested and tried, you know it's going to work. If you try something new, it may suck instead.

Still, the former approach is not really better for the genre as a whole, since it will and has stagnated. There are a lot of things developers could learn from SE to do it right. However, this just "proves" them that they shouldn't take any risks at all in the future either, sadly.
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#60 Jan 11 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
FFXIV is evidence of the opposite; how many people quit solely because of the UI in the first month?


About the same noncommittal number that would have quit a month later due to other dissatisfactions. A person who leaves a game over its (now updated) interface is not someone who was planning to stay for years anyway. The evidence is in the fact that game is free indefinitely, yet many still have not returned. I think such players would have left as soon as the "next big MMO" came out regardless.

Hyanmen wrote:
In this case not so much so, but also: less risks. If you do the tested and tried, you know it's going to work.


Of course, we all know how well WoW clones do on the market. XD
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#61 Jan 11 2011 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Rift being a WoW clone is the understatement of the year. Blizzard worked for years polishing Rift. I almost had fun, until I hit the beach and saw their version of murlocs, that was enough for me, I didn't quit WoW, to play it all over again.

If you quit WoW, because you were fed up with it, you will not like Rift, 10% of the game is their own, even rifts got repetitative. I honestly ended the beta feeling like Blizzard should sue.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 11:31pm by Spyrit178
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#62 Jan 11 2011 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Rift being a WoW clone is the understatement of the year. Blizzard worked for years polishing Rift. I almost had fun, until I hit the beach and saw their version of murlocs, that was enough for me, I didn't quit WoW, to play it all over again.

If you quit WoW, because you were fed up with it, you will not like Rift, 10% of the game is their own, even rifts got repetitative. I honestly ended the beta feeling like Blizzard should sue.

Edited, Jan 11th 2011 11:31pm by Spyrit178


i hate to say it but this is the exact impression i got off the game too
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#63 Jan 11 2011 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:


All cars have four wheels because it's the most efficient design we've had for personal conveyance to date. Until someone makes a more efficient UI that WoW's... it's going to be used and probably should be.


95% of all helicopters use an antitorque rotor or ducted fan on the tailboom but every aircraft engineer knows that coaxial rotors, intermeshing rotors and NOTAR are all superior designs.



Edited, Jan 12th 2011 1:51am by Lobivopis
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Adjust the resolution of menus.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#64 Jan 12 2011 at 12:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lobivopis wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:


All cars have four wheels because it's the most efficient design we've had for personal conveyance to date. Until someone makes a more efficient UI that WoW's... it's going to be used and probably should be.


95% of all helicopters use an antitorque rotor or ducted fan on the tailboom but every aircraft engineer knows that coaxial rotors, intermeshing rotors and NOTAR are all superior designs.


Helicoptor Pwn'd!
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#65 Jan 12 2011 at 1:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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The first decade of the new milenium has been one of false starts for Square Enix. It's fitting that the release of XIV was rushed into the last moments of 2000-2010 as it really seems to have served as a wake up call for an ailing giant.

Who knows what was going on behind closed doors at SE HQ. Things like starting development on XIII as a cell shaded gale and putting the long talked about "Rapture" project on hold to build Crystal Tools which they just threw away after it's release.

When it comes down to it, Crystal Tools is no excuse for so little content. I find it heard to believe that the didn't have a creative team sit aroundand at least dream up a few ideas. All in all, the debacle the entire last ten years turned out to be for SE has given the company a chance to reemerge as something better. It's like that poem the new director posted. It's inherent meaning was that flowers can grow from the ashes. Really, the state of XIV parallels the state of SE. It's time their young blood stepped up to bat.

As someone who has held dear their classic games (VI and Tactics topping my list) the cannot in me is cheering for a huge 2011 where not only XIV takes the market by storm, but Versus proves to be an ace in the hole as well.

Sadly, only time will tell. And as a fan, waiting is the hardest thing to do.
#66 Jan 12 2011 at 2:44 AM Rating: Good
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SoumaKyou wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
It's only in the MMO world that a game is called a "clone" if they use a standard UI/Control scheme because it is the best.

Wow, I didn't even see this post.

WoW's UI is the best? HAHAHA. No.

In a direct UI vs UI comparison, XIV's is way better than WoW's default UI. XIV's UI has functionality that you'd have to mod WoW's UI for.

What makes WoW's UI so good is that you could completely change it. Otherwise, the default UI blows.


Man, if you are honestly going to try to say that XIV's UI is better than ANY UI, you are completely out to lunch.

XIV has the worst, most non-intuitive, inefficient interface made in any game, not only MMO's. Dozens of hidden windows, and useless promts.



Edited, Jan 12th 2011 3:44am by KristoFurwalken
#67 Jan 12 2011 at 3:05 AM Rating: Good
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:

Quote:

There is no end game.


No MMORPG release with end-game in its vanilla phase because it's not the "endgame" point yet because they generally expand player's limits (level cap raise/stat raises etc) before plopping endgame events down.


Not true. I can't speak for every MMORPG, but WoW launched with 3 end-game raids available - one 10-man (Upper Blackrock Spire) and two 40-man (Onyxia's Lair and Molten Core) - four 5- to 10-man dungeons intended for level-capped characters (Dire Maul, Lower Blackrock Spire, Scholomance, and Stratholme), and a small handful of open-world raid bosses.

#68 Jan 12 2011 at 4:05 AM Rating: Default
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Man, if you are honestly going to try to say that XIV's UI is better than ANY UI, you are completely out to lunch.

XIV has the worst, most non-intuitive, inefficient interface made in any game, not only MMO's. Dozens of hidden windows, and useless promts.

I'm talking solely about the main UI (unit frames and action bars). FFXIV's beats WoW's by a mile.
#69 Jan 12 2011 at 4:23 AM Rating: Good
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SoumaKyou wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
Man, if you are honestly going to try to say that XIV's UI is better than ANY UI, you are completely out to lunch.

XIV has the worst, most non-intuitive, inefficient interface made in any game, not only MMO's. Dozens of hidden windows, and useless promts.

I'm talking solely about the main UI (unit frames and action bars). FFXIV's beats WoW's by a mile.


Nope.

One bar, that 90% of the people playing put in the exact default position the standard MMO UI does. No ability to drag and drop abilities into that one bar, instead you have to go through about a half a dozen steps to put an ability on that one bar.

Cant minimize and re-size, or move the map. The standard FFXIV UI doesn't beat anything by a mile.

The only thing FFXIV does right in the UI is the ability to move things to where you want them, which is something I was doing in DDO about 5 years ago.

The dev team isn't working on making an entirely new interface for sh*ts and gigs, they're doing it because no one likes it. Other than a fanboi of course.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 5:24am by KristoFurwalken
#70namasy, Posted: Jan 12 2011 at 5:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) UI UI UI UI
#71 Jan 12 2011 at 5:14 AM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
SoumaKyou wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
Man, if you are honestly going to try to say that XIV's UI is better than ANY UI, you are completely out to lunch.

XIV has the worst, most non-intuitive, inefficient interface made in any game, not only MMO's. Dozens of hidden windows, and useless promts.

I'm talking solely about the main UI (unit frames and action bars). FFXIV's beats WoW's by a mile.


Nope.

One bar, that 90% of the people playing put in the exact default position the standard MMO UI does. No ability to drag and drop abilities into that one bar, instead you have to go through about a half a dozen steps to put an ability on that one bar.

Cant minimize and re-size, or move the map. The standard FFXIV UI doesn't beat anything by a mile.

The only thing FFXIV does right in the UI is the ability to move things to where you want them, which is something I was doing in DDO about 5 years ago.

The dev team isn't working on making an entirely new interface for sh*ts and gigs, they're doing it because no one likes it. Other than a fanboi of course.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 5:24am by KristoFurwalken


Not to mention the fact that you accidentally wind up with the finger point icon on the UI when you're trying to select something on the screen like, oh say, the monster that's trying to kill you. -_-"

How can anyone possibly believe FF14's UI even comes close to WoW's in quality, let alone beats it. Wtf? FF14's UI is a joke.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 6:15am by SasukeYuchiha

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 6:15am by SasukeYuchiha
#72 Jan 12 2011 at 5:16 AM Rating: Good
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Lmao! FFXIV UI better than WOW's ? Say What ?

No MMORGP launches with end content on it's vanilla phase ? SAY WHAT ?

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#73 Jan 12 2011 at 5:17 AM Rating: Default
Apologies if my answeres have come up before I only read the op's post, anyway these type's of questions have been done to death tbh but hey I will bite.

There are no quests in the game. - SE were under the impression that leve's + behests were enough to keep people occupied at launch - they were wrong.

The entire landscape is copy-pasted in some way. - Every mmo has some element of copy pasta but I do admit that FFXIV has a lot more than others but I think this is due to the specs of the game and the possibility that players pc's/ps3's might not be able to handle that much graphics rendering.

There is no end game. - I think SE was satisfied that there SP curve was steep enough to stop players getting to endgame stats too quickly - They were wrong.

The armory system, while a cool concept, is horrible at the moment. - I completely and utterly disagree with you on this one, the armoury system is a fresh break from the norm being able to play any class on the one char is a great concept, the only thing I would admit is wrong is no gear lvls, I personally think there should be some gear restrictions for lvl or at least severe penaties to stats (more than at the moment) for a lvl 10 noob wearing lvl 50 gear.

Combat is sluggish, sometimes requiring a 1-2 second delay before an instant cast is performed. - The combat is fine, the system lag is the issue which is making the combat look sluggish, it's something they will have to address, they did reduce it in Nov update but I think it needs looking at again.

There are what? 5 zones + being on a boat? - Most mmo's upon launch have only a few zones available I am sure as time progresses new zones will open up with expansion packs (if we get that far) also when they finally add airships they may open up new zones, Garellean zone maybe?
#74 Jan 12 2011 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
(never mind NES era).


I will kill to have the story and content from Final Fantasy (the first, the orginal, nes)....it was MY first rpg that was my everything. I replayed that one game sooooo many times.
#75 Jan 12 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Default
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Quote:
(never mind NES era).


I will kill to have the story and content from Final Fantasy (the first, the orginal, nes)....it was MY first rpg that was my everything. I replayed that one game sooooo many times.


You do know the first FF, has the worst content and storyline out of any FF ?
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#76 Jan 12 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Quote:
(never mind NES era).


I will kill to have the story and content from Final Fantasy (the first, the orginal, nes)....it was MY first rpg that was my everything. I replayed that one game sooooo many times.

I'm pretty lucky to still have a copy with a good battery for saves :P I still play it occasionally. They still fetch nearly full price on the second hand market.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 10:28am by Jefro420
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#77 Jan 12 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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You do know the first FF, has the worst content and storyline out of any FF ?


umm I was like 9 years old when it came out. are you trying to kill my childhood mista? GOGO RDM ONLY PARTY! :use Zeuse cuffs! aoe kill kill. The Kraken is deadededed!
#78 Jan 12 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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Is it too hard to ask that when you switch jobs that the UI remembers how you had your bar set up for the previous job? Making macros to set up abilities is so 10 years ago. If they went 100% WoW style I would be all for that.

And those bashing Rift saying it copied WOW...yea, yer right. I have been playing Beta. Its fun. Polished. Looks great. Has an AH. Events(Rifts and Invasions) are original ideas which sets it apart from WOW. And most importantly, its a NA game, and Customer Service will call you back ON THE PHONE within an hour of problem.

So cut them a slack...Trion is good company. You won't be losing FF players to it...but WoW will be losing some. There is no such thing as a WOW killer. How many will come from WOW...who knows, depends a lot on Word of Mouth.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 10:47am by Simool
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#79 Jan 12 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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Simool wrote:
Is it too hard to ask that when you switch jobs that the UI remembers how you had your bar set up for the previous job? Making macros to set up abilities is so 10 years ago. If they went 100% WoW style I would be all for that.

And those bashing Rift saying it copied WOW...yea, yer right. I have been playing Beta. Its fun. Polished. Looks great. Has an AH. Events(Rifts and Invasions) are original ideas which sets it apart from WOW. And most importantly, its a NA game, and Customer Service will call you back ON THE PHONE within an hour of problem.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 10:47am by Simool


That is a MAJOR annoyance when you switch jobs and all your abilities go ******** and you have to spend time setting them up again.

As far as Rift, let's just call it a Clone for arguments sake, that just makes WoW the older, uglier, fat, handicapped sister. So Rift is still better.

And yes the customer service has been amazing so far, not only that, but in the Official Forums, (that is something good games have), devs and GM's will often be on answering questions and discussing feedback in person.
#80 Jan 12 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Default
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Simool wrote:
Is it too hard to ask that when you switch jobs that the UI remembers how you had your bar set up for the previous job?

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 10:47am by Simool

SE has said this is coming, just be patient.
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#81 Jan 12 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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like usually, thanks for spewing complete bulls*** in order to defend this game! you once again show us all you are an idiot!

The MMORPG Rift planes of telara is only in beta, it runs great. It has a lot of content, it will have end game raids on release, and the dev team actually listens and fixes things fast! and they actually communicate with the player! o and did i mention its only in beta?


Last time I checked this is a FFXIV General Discussion Forum. Not a "bash someone because of their opinion" forum, or "go on about some game that has nothing to do with the topic" forum.

Realize thats quite a late response but I thought it was quite uncalled for. But seriously...why keep comparing games. Who cares if Game X has this and FFXIV doesn't, or why FFXIV has this and Game X doesn't. The things we should be focusing on is, what was SE doing, why did SE do it, what is SE going to do about it.

Talking about how this game has better UI this game has better content, this game has better battle system, this game has better animations, this is copy/pasted areas. Ok, we get it. Everyone has heard every complaint you can think of already.

Let us discuss the reality of the situation, and speculate on past faults and possible futures.

I could care less if you like/dislike the game, and you shouldn't care what I think either. What you should respect is a Thread posters' topic, and don't waste serious readers time by having to click the red arrow so your pointless annoy message gets minimized.

To the OP: I have thought a lot about why SE did what they did, and I cannot think of any real reason, all I can say is tough it out if your willing, or say ***** it and quit until it's better or play something else and don't return... it's all the same.

SE did so much I don't understand that it hurts thinking about it.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 11:31am by StateAlchemist2

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 11:33am by StateAlchemist2

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 12:01pm by StateAlchemist2
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#82 Jan 12 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Quote:
like usually, thanks for spewing complete bulls*** in order to defend this game! you once again show us all you are an idiot!

The MMORPG Rift planes of telara is only in beta, it runs great. It has a lot of content, it will have end game raids on release, and the dev team actually listens and fixes things fast! and they actually communicate with the player! o and did i mention its only in beta?


Last time I checked this is a FFXIV General Discussion Forum. Not a "bash someone because of their opinion" forum, or "go on about some game no one cares about here" forum.


In other words, GameFAQs?
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#83 Jan 12 2011 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jefro420 wrote:
Simool wrote:
Is it too hard to ask that when you switch jobs that the UI remembers how you had your bar set up for the previous job?

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 10:47am by Simool

SE has said this is coming, just be patient.


Patience doesn't enter into my desire for entertainment. Either you entertain me, or you don't. Plenty of other games will do so without requiring my patience.
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#84 Jan 12 2011 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:

Last time I checked this is a FFXIV General Discussion Forum. Not a "bash someone because of their opinion" forum, or "go on about some game no one cares about here" forum.


"No one cares" implies 0. It's never a good idea to write in absolutes. Try using "most everyone" or "almost everyone"...because, well..I care, and I'm part of these forums. I'll be playing Rift up until FF fixed or dies. I'll always be a FF guy...but I do have my limitations.
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#85 Jan 12 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Default
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Simool wrote:

And those bashing Rift saying it copied WOW...yea, yer right. I have been playing Beta. Its fun. Polished. Looks great. Has an AH. Events(Rifts and Invasions) are original ideas which sets it apart from WOW.


I don't think anyone is directly bashing the game like people do towards SE and FFXI/XIV for example, but more so that people say it's like the next best thing when in reality...

Quote:
Rift events begin from tears, areas where the ward between Telara and the planes is weakening. If left alone, tears will open into rifts on their own, but they can be opened by players using a Planar Lure, and players will not know which plane will invade until the rift is opened.

Once the tear is opened, the energies from the otherworldly plane begin to transform the area around the rift, including both flora and fauna. Bizarre effects begin swirling around, the color of the air and earth change, the area sounds different, and new objects (or changed existing ones),such as alien flora, appear scattered about.

Rifts spawn creatures which players have to combat in order to seal the rift. The creatures come out in waves, growing stronger and stronger, and sometimes appearing with certain conditions like requiring players to meet a certain quota of kills or doing it under a time limit. Upon completing the challenges, players are rewarded for their participation. The more you participate, the better your reward, and some rewards may be rift-specific.


Is this accurate? I only played the Rift betas to see if the game was fun but I got bored with it since it felt like MMOs I already currently play. Multiple dimensions and phasing basically? This isn't original, even offline games have full story arcs based on stuff like this, albeit scripted.

Quote:
Invasion

Rifts spawn invasions, where the monsters from the rift venture into the world to create footholds "from which more invasions can spawn". The invaders may attack other rifts or mount an attack on a target such as a town; if a town is taken over by an invasion, the NPCs of that town will not be present until players take the town back. Invasions from different plane types will also attack each other if they meet, and rifts of the same type will assist each other if they are in the same area.

Foothold

If the invasion is not stopped, it will create a foothold, which can be seen as a base set up by the plane itself, which will expand further.

In the future, players may be able to invade rifts and go into them.


Is this also accurate? If so many MMOs and offline RPGs before rift has systems like this in various forms, even FFXI has a few forms of invasion, while not complex and barely rewarding, it exists so I wouldn't say they're original ideas, maybe apart from WoW but not the MUD/MMO genre.

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#86 Jan 12 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
Simool wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:

Last time I checked this is a FFXIV General Discussion Forum. Not a "bash someone because of their opinion" forum, or "go on about some game no one cares about here" forum.


"No one cares" implies 0. It's never a good idea to write in absolutes. Try using "most everyone" or "almost everyone"...because, well..I care, and I'm part of these forums. I'll be playing Rift up until FF fixed or dies. I'll always be a FF guy...but I do have my limitations.


Touche! Done and done.

Surpirsed I did that. I never use absolutes!(Most of the time :P )

And I think its accurate to say that SE wasn't playing Rift for the last 6 years.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 12:03pm by StateAlchemist2
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#87 Jan 12 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Patience doesn't enter into my desire for entertainment. Either you entertain me, or you don't. Plenty of other games will do so without requiring my patience.


remind us again why you are here then?

Edit: nvm, I know... it is more entertaining for you to troll this forum then play those other games.

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 10:05am by taliph
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#88 Jan 12 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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Invasions in Rift kind of like Besieged in FFXI...except they are random and you can have dozens happening at one time on a single portion of a map. Mobs arrive and B-Line to a predetermined random location to take over, and kill anything in their path. Roads are not always safe. The mobs are not not easy and and levels based on those players who are in the area at the time. Battles can last hours. If the invasion not contained, they can wipe out outposts, camps, cities. If that happens...there will be no quests because everyone is dead. The loot and exp all revolves around defeating the Invasions and Rifts...while quests are something you do along the way.

Mix in PVP for the PVP servers...you can have both groups battling an invasion while also battling each other.

So it is completely original...heck no. Nothing is anymore. But what they did was introduce a dynamic playing field that is ever changing and unpredictable. Complete opposite of FF. And it sure beats killing Coblyns.

Will Rift make it...who knows, but they are not trying to hide anything and are doing everything they can to be successful.
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#89 Jan 12 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Am i missing something? What exactly is so special about WoWs UI? Last i checked most f2p mmos have pretty much the same UI and some were out before wow. Maybe i am mistaken but i seems like people think WoW is innovative and groundbreaking these days..

That being said, I do think XIV needs to adopt some elements from other games. Being able to drag + drop your skills is the way to go. And IMO they should get rid of some things currently on screen:
1) the little bag/item/emote thing in the corner. I would bet most people just use the corresponding key/button to access these. I myself moved it into the corner with the map so its out of my way.
2.) they need to really tweak the black bar on top with status effects. It is ALWAYS in my way when im trying to move something around or rotate my camera. These are just some of my annoyances with the current UI but i am sure they are already being addressed.
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#90 Jan 12 2011 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
Simool wrote:
Invasions in Rift kind of like Besieged in FFXI...except they are random and you can have dozens happening at one time on a single portion of a map. Mobs arrive and B-Line to a predetermined random location to take over, and kill anything in their path. Roads are not always safe. The mobs are not not easy and and levels based on those players who are in the area at the time. Battles can last hours. If the invasion not contained, they can wipe out outposts, camps, cities. If that happens...there will be no quests because everyone is dead. The loot and exp all revolves around defeating the Invasions and Rifts...while quests are something you do along the way.

Mix in PVP for the PVP servers...you can have both groups battling an invasion while also battling each other.

So it is completely original...heck no. Nothing is anymore. But what they did was introduce a dynamic playing field that is ever changing and unpredictable. Complete opposite of FF. And it sure beats killing Coblyns.

Will Rift make it...who knows, but they are not trying to hide anything and are doing everything they can to be successful.


Just to clarify I am not bashing you Simool, because I agree with what you said, but again...what does any of this have to do with the OP?

And I loved Besieged...besides the horrible lag, accidentally AoEing monster that hadn't loaded yet, getting target by a mob that you think is on the otherside of the zone but is actually right next to you, the fact that everyone pulled mobs close to where people tried to rest (causing them to die again...)...at least the skill ups were good.

SE should have released a more beastmen involved zone with the initial launch. ANd not some close to max level. At the moment the beastmen seem like they are all super-powerful...where are the weaker beastmen like in FFXI? Also have a hard time really notcing magical weaknesses in monsters...theres justa lot of fundamental things in 14 that semed second naure in 11 that just are not there.
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#91 Jan 12 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Shredmastah wrote:
Am i missing something? What exactly is so special about WoWs UI? Last i checked most f2p mmos have pretty much the same UI and some were out before wow. Maybe i am mistaken but i seems like people think WoW is innovative and groundbreaking these days..

That being said, I do think XIV needs to adopt some elements from other games. Being able to drag + drop your skills is the way to go.


WoW just made it popular especially because prior to WoW MMOs were pretty niche outside of Korea and China.

Also:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=cb4dc09784bc24b4fde2e45de9f018ec5fb504d2

Quote:
Changes to main menu display format
Changes to inventory list display format
Improvements to various user-interface layouts
Improvements to the Interactions menu
The addition of a help text window
The reorganization of on-screen information
The reformatting of existing widgets, allowing for access of multiple windows at the same time
Improvements to Actions & Traits menu response time
Improvements to mouse and keyboard controls
Improvements to character controls
The addition of drag and drop functionality
The addition of mouseover popup help text
The addition of right-click menus

The addition of a feature that will allow the cutting and pasting of macro buttons from the macro palette

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#92 Jan 12 2011 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Am i missing something? What exactly is so special about WoWs UI? Last i checked most f2p mmos have pretty much the same UI and some were out before wow. Maybe i am mistaken but i seems like people think WoW is innovative and groundbreaking these days..


It's not groundbreaking or innovative, nor does it try to be; it's just a functional and intuitive UI for playing a game. This seems to put people off for some reason, I guess because they'd rather navigate a *********** of menus instead because it's "different".
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#93 Jan 12 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
Quanta wrote:
Quote:
Am i missing something? What exactly is so special about WoWs UI? Last i checked most f2p mmos have pretty much the same UI and some were out before wow. Maybe i am mistaken but i seems like people think WoW is innovative and groundbreaking these days..


It's not groundbreaking or innovative, nor does it try to be; it's just a functional and intuitive UI for playing a game. This seems to put people off for some reason, I guess because they'd rather navigate a cluster@#%^ of menus instead because it's "different".


Maybe I am old fashioned because I grew up using pre-windows PCs, but I will be honest with you. I rarely use a mouse, even to navigate Windows 7/Ubuntu. I use shortcut keys, arrow keys, menus, commands, etc... Having to take my hands off the keyboard for any reason to me is a waste of my time. Now I understand that that is not the case for everyone. WoWs UI isn't very keyboard friendly from my limited experience (I could be wrong, but remember I can only go on what I know myself) I would rather a simple menu system be used (like FFXI) with minimal "bling". To satisfy everyone they could have it be a config option...1)Simple Menu System, 2)Advanced UI. THen the "wow ui" style players and the ffxi style players can live in harmony.

Can you believe I ACTUALLY had to go out and BUY a mouse for this game? lol (I didn't have one!)
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#94 Jan 12 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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hexaemeron wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
Simool wrote:
Is it too hard to ask that when you switch jobs that the UI remembers how you had your bar set up for the previous job?

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 10:47am by Simool

SE has said this is coming, just be patient.


Patience doesn't enter into my desire for entertainment. Either you entertain me, or you don't. Plenty of other games will do so without requiring my patience.


Pretty much this. I know some people are so into the final fantasy name that they're willing to forgive a lot, but this game isn't special its just one of the many MMOs being released. Why, when every other game being released is attempting to have a variety of activities from level 1-cap, does FFXIV deserve our patience?

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#95 Jan 12 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quanta wrote:
Quote:
Am i missing something? What exactly is so special about WoWs UI? Last i checked most f2p mmos have pretty much the same UI and some were out before wow. Maybe i am mistaken but i seems like people think WoW is innovative and groundbreaking these days..


It's not groundbreaking or innovative, nor does it try to be; it's just a functional and intuitive UI for playing a game. This seems to put people off for some reason, I guess because they'd rather navigate a cluster@#%^ of menus instead because it's "different".


I'm not debating that WoW's UI is bad, or that it's not functional. It's a good UI, it works.

My thing is, if I'm playing a game that isn't WoW, I don't want it to look like WoW. If I want to play a game with WoW's UI, I'll play WoW.

To go to a potential derail: Unix based OSes such as Linux and Mac use a different UI than Windows, and they're equally functional. So I find it difficult to believe that there are no other possible ways to design a UI that is equally functional to WoW's UI without taking one look at the UI and wondering what game I'm playing.

I think that the changes Theonehio listed (especially drag and drop) would be a large improvement to the current UI, but I still think it should try to keep looking mostly the way it looks now. For that matter, I thought FFXI's UI looked fine too (although I admit that drag and drop would have been an improvement).

You shouldn't have to copy the "5 bags in the lower right, portrait in a round circle in the upper left, etc" UI to have a good UI.
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#96 Jan 12 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:

Just to clarify I am not bashing you Simool, because I agree with what you said, but again...what does any of this have to do with the OP?


Oh....not much. Maybe just to compare what 2 different companies working with comparable budgets can do in the same time period. Why can one company do it and another not. I think its fairly obvious in a lot of aspects. FF bit off more than they could chew and who knows what kind of development vs mgmt wars were going on at SE while FFXIV was being created. Rift basically looked at all kinds of MMO's and have tried to marry in the fun aspects from all around and build a game that looks good and looks familiar, has had very good betas.

But, Rift is not for you avg FF player. I think I am rare in the sense I am a diehard FF guy, but like to try new things and take them for what they are. Side to side...you can't really compare the two games as of today. Now...will the FF dev staff take an ax to some of the traditional FF aspects of 14 and start borrowing 2011 MMO aspects that entice a broader player base? Not sure...
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#97 Jan 12 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Quanta wrote:
Quote:
Am i missing something? What exactly is so special about WoWs UI? Last i checked most f2p mmos have pretty much the same UI and some were out before wow. Maybe i am mistaken but i seems like people think WoW is innovative and groundbreaking these days..


It's not groundbreaking or innovative, nor does it try to be; it's just a functional and intuitive UI for playing a game. This seems to put people off for some reason, I guess because they'd rather navigate a cluster@#%^ of menus instead because it's "different".


Maybe I am old fashioned because I grew up using pre-windows PCs, but I will be honest with you. I rarely use a mouse, even to navigate Windows 7/Ubuntu. I use shortcut keys, arrow keys, menus, commands, etc... Having to take my hands off the keyboard for any reason to me is a waste of my time. Now I understand that that is not the case for everyone. WoWs UI isn't very keyboard friendly from my limited experience (I could be wrong, but remember I can only go on what I know myself) I would rather a simple menu system be used (like FFXI) with minimal "bling". To satisfy everyone they could have it be a config option...1)Simple Menu System, 2)Advanced UI. THen the "wow ui" style players and the ffxi style players can live in harmony.

Can you believe I ACTUALLY had to go out and BUY a mouse for this game? lol (I didn't have one!)


You must hit tab a lot when navigating websites.

Don't get me wrong; I would say I use my keyboard about 75% of the time and mouse about 25% outside of games, but I don't know how you can fully traverse a forum without a mouse unless your tab key gets mashed to ****. :P
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#98 Jan 12 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Nope.

One bar, that 90% of the people playing put in the exact default position the standard MMO UI does. No ability to drag and drop abilities into that one bar, instead you have to go through about a half a dozen steps to put an ability on that one bar.

Cant minimize and re-size, or move the map. The standard FFXIV UI doesn't beat anything by a mile.

The only thing FFXIV does right in the UI is the ability to move things to where you want them, which is something I was doing in DDO about 5 years ago.

The dev team isn't working on making an entirely new interface for sh*ts and gigs, they're doing it because no one likes it. Other than a fanboi of course.


Ostia wrote:
Lmao! FFXIV UI better than WOW's ? Say What ?

No MMORGP launches with end content on it's vanilla phase ? SAY WHAT ?

I love how you guys have trouble comprehending what I'm talking about.

The reason WoW's UI is good is because of how customizable it is. Its default UI is worse than FFXIV's. It's a cluttered mess of action bars, the unit frames are in a terrible position, and the multiple bags are a stupid feature that adds to the clutter. FFXIV's UI has minimalistic features that most UI modders strive for. Invisible when not in combat, centered unit frame, minimalist party frames, etc.

Is FFXIV's UI better than a properly modded WoW UI? No. But it's better than default.

Not to mention most people's custom WoW UI's look something like this: http://capnbry.net/~bmayland/fi/wow/ui.jpg

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 12:42pm by SoumaKyou
#99 Jan 12 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Maybe I am old fashioned because I grew up using pre-windows PCs, but I will be honest with you. I rarely use a mouse, even to navigate Windows 7/Ubuntu. I use shortcut keys, arrow keys, menus, commands, etc... Having to take my hands off the keyboard for any reason to me is a waste of my time. Now I understand that that is not the case for everyone. WoWs UI isn't very keyboard friendly from my limited experience (I could be wrong, but remember I can only go on what I know myself) I would rather a simple menu system be used (like FFXI) with minimal "bling". To satisfy everyone they could have it be a config option...1)Simple Menu System, 2)Advanced UI. THen the "wow ui" style players and the ffxi style players can live in harmony.


Most good players I know only use the mouse for looking around; nobody actually uses it to click on abilities or anything, unless those abilities are rarely used; everything else is bound to one of the keyboard keys. For example, I use ESDF for movement, and the surrounding keys (RTGWQA234ZXCV) for abilities, and hold down the modifier keys for even more binds (though I remapped Alt to the Caps Lock key because it's in an awkward place otherwise). I use the mouse to look around, and I have the wheel bound to additional abilities. The side mouse button is my Ventrilo key. My keypad is used to access various UI elements (paperdoll, reputations, PvP window, social window, talents, quests, etc.).

All in all, I consider it a good setup, and I was pretty miffed in beta when SE decided to forgo that kind of customization. To me, and many others, it was completely *** backwards, yet others defended the decision as if it was absolute brilliance. From what I've read though, keybinds are coming, so I'm keeping an eye on the game for now.
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#100 Jan 12 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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SoumaKyou wrote:
Not to mention most people's custom WoW UI's look something like this: http://capnbry.net/~bmayland/fi/wow/ui.jpg

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 12:42pm by SoumaKyou


I don't see damage meters. Clearly, this player is terrible. :P
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Maglyn - 81 Gnome Protection Warrior - <Flaming Bunnies>


Don't play that game anymore. :P
#101 Jan 12 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
Quanta wrote:
SoumaKyou wrote:
Not to mention most people's custom WoW UI's look something like this: http://capnbry.net/~bmayland/fi/wow/ui.jpg

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 12:42pm by SoumaKyou


I don't see damage meters. Clearly, this player is terrible. :P


Sure is...who the !@#$ taught that person how to play Kirby...only 19120 points with one life remaining?!
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