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Ignore the WoW Posters CampaignFollow

#1 Jan 13 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah yeah, we all know WoW has the biggest subscriber base of any MMO. Obviously it's because they did something right, something that SE did not do with FFXIV. But can we stop filling every thread with crap about WoW? It adds nothing what-so-ever to the community here accept to add to the frustrations of people actually looking for information about FFXIV, on an FFXIV forum.

My proposition is this, add the WoW posters to your ignore list. When they have a legitimate post needing help that goes unanswered, maybe they will rethink their approach to being a constructive contributor on Zam.

Edit: For those that can't seem to understand that I am making a sweeping generalization about all non-FFXIV related posts; I'm referring to any and all posts that have nothing to do with what these forums are about. That goes for WoW, Rift, FPSs, monkeys and f*cking marshmallows. If you're making a post that's way off topic and adds nothing to the discussion at hand, I'm talking about you!

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 5:30pm by Jefro420

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 3:26pm by Osarion Lock Thread: Far too derailed

The locking of this thread has nothing to do with discussion of WoW, it's features, or their potential benefit to XIV. Feel free to start a discussion thread about that. However, starting a thread in which you urge people to flat out ignore people who discuss WoW is going to end badly.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 3:46pm by Osarion
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#2 Jan 13 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Default
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U mad ?
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#3 Jan 13 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
U mad ?

not mad, seriously annoyed.
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#4 Jan 13 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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It would also be nice if the admins took a look at some of these threads where these folks derail the conversation with an argument about which WoW expansion was better or whatever and maybe ask the posters to keep their comments in the relevant forums.
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#5 Jan 13 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Default
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Jefro420 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
U mad ?

not mad, seriously annoyed.


Why are you annoyed ? (Serious question)
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#6 Jan 13 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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...and have moderators actually moderate? what a novel concept!

Sorry for the low blow mods, some of the stuff that goes on on this site would not be tolerated on any forums I have managed.
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#7 Jan 13 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
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they get enough reports, they will do something. if every off topic post in the other thread were reported by several people the admins would have to be high to not notice.
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#8 Jan 13 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
It would also be nice if the admins took a look at some of these threads where these folks derail the conversation with an argument about which WoW expansion was better or whatever and maybe ask the posters to keep their comments in the relevant forums.


no kidding

i dont mind other games being brought up as a basis for serious comparison, but 99% of the time, any mention of another game, brings about a 100% derailment in terms of the post becoming talking about how great said game is in comparison and how everyone here should go play it instead.

This is a FFXIV forum and i personaly think if you are not now, nor ever going to play the game, you shouldnt be here. And if your purpose is to get people to play another game, take that with you too.
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#9 Jan 13 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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taliph wrote:
they get enough reports, they will do something. if every off topic post in the other thread were reported by several people the admins would have to be high to not notice.


I've reported such threads before and the admins reply that the karma system is functioning as intended. Meaning they expect us to self-moderate such posts by rating them down. As far as I know, they won't delete posts unless absolutely necessary, ie. un-sensored swearing.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 12:53pm by Hydragyrum
#10 Jan 13 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
taliph wrote:
they get enough reports, they will do something. if every off topic post in the other thread were reported by several people the admins would have to be high to not notice.


I've reported such threads before and the admins reply that the karma system is functioning as intended. Meaning they expect us to self-moderate such posts by rating them down. As far as I know, they won't delete posts unless absolutely necessary, ie. un-sensored swearing.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 12:53pm by Hydragyrum


To which I would reply to said admin, seeing as how rampant the issue has become, and the fact that the karma system has failed to reduce the instances of said issue, that the PAID administration should do something about it.

it would be one less reason for me to not purchase premium for this site.
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#11 Jan 13 2011 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
taliph wrote:
they get enough reports, they will do something. if every off topic post in the other thread were reported by several people the admins would have to be high to not notice.


I've reported such threads before and the admins reply that the karma system is functioning as intended. Meaning they expect us to self-moderate such posts by rating them down. As far as I know, they won't delete posts unless absolutely necessary, ie. un-sensored swearing.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 12:53pm by Hydragyrum


The karma system does not work, it is only a popularity poll for the self conscious.
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#12 Jan 13 2011 at 1:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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LyleVertigo wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
taliph wrote:
they get enough reports, they will do something. if every off topic post in the other thread were reported by several people the admins would have to be high to not notice.


I've reported such threads before and the admins reply that the karma system is functioning as intended. Meaning they expect us to self-moderate such posts by rating them down. As far as I know, they won't delete posts unless absolutely necessary, ie. un-sensored swearing.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 12:53pm by Hydragyrum


The karma system does not work, it is only a popularity poll for the self conscious.


Rate up

Wait... ****.
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#13 Jan 13 2011 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
taliph wrote:
they get enough reports, they will do something. if every off topic post in the other thread were reported by several people the admins would have to be high to not notice.


I've reported such threads before and the admins reply that the karma system is functioning as intended. Meaning they expect us to self-moderate such posts by rating them down. As far as I know, they won't delete posts unless absolutely necessary, ie. un-sensored swearing.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 12:53pm by Hydragyrum


The karma system does not work, it is only a popularity poll for the self conscious.


Rate up

Wait... sh*t.


Huh?...Oh sure There ya go anything else ya need...anything?
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#14 Jan 13 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Simool wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
taliph wrote:
they get enough reports, they will do something. if every off topic post in the other thread were reported by several people the admins would have to be high to not notice.


I've reported such threads before and the admins reply that the karma system is functioning as intended. Meaning they expect us to self-moderate such posts by rating them down. As far as I know, they won't delete posts unless absolutely necessary, ie. un-sensored swearing.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 12:53pm by Hydragyrum


The karma system does not work, it is only a popularity poll for the self conscious.


Rate up

Wait... sh*t.


Huh?...Oh sure There ya go anything else ya need...anything?


Twenty bucks?
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Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#15 Jan 13 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Obligatory:

Quote:
Ostia wrote:
U mad ?

not mad, seriously annoyed.


I think he mad, bro.
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#16 Jan 13 2011 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know why you're so upset OP. Most of the time when people bring up other games it's for comparison between this game or that game. The majority of the time it isn't "ZOG you guys should play "X" game over FFXIV, it's the bomb!" I don't think I've seen one topic saying how great the new WoW expansion is.

Now what I do see a lot of is people comparing certain aspects of the MMO genera against each other. I.E. WoW is successful at Y and X. Why can't FFXIV emulate that, or at least build off of that? Or FFXI did such and such this way and was one of the better parts of the game. Why wouldn't SE incorporate that same system into the game?

Games are always compared to other games. All FPS are going to be compared to either Halo or CoD. Nothing you can do about it. And to say don't compare this new FPS to CoD or Halo because it's not that game is stupid. The goal of a company is to make a better, or niche, product that is currently out. I.E SE makes video games, mostly RPG, so they want to make the best games in that genera, or create a niche game i.e Final Fantasy Tactics and pre-WoW FFXI. In this example, being FFXIV, it is a MMO released in a market that is currently saturated and has many niche markets already. FFXIV can not and will never be able to compete with WoW. Which really sucks, I thought it could have been the game that made blizzard lose sleep at night. So it's not going to be the best game on the market, now it's going to be a niche game...but for who? Causal gamers won't play this game, it's not causal friendly. Hard Core raiders won't play this game their is no raid/instance/HNM/Kings/???? content yet. Action RPG players won't play this game because all the battle system is is 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,WS,1,1,1. I'm sure I could continue going on and on.

So when people complain about a certain aspect of this game and compare it to another game out there that did it successfully it's because those people want to play this game for that reason. I.E people who complain about the class system not being defined enough, or not flexible enough via the stat allocation system wanted something like the FFXI class system, just better more customizable, what we got was the current system that can't decide what it wants to be. Most people complain about the lack of quests and refer to FFXI or even WoW as a game that did quests right. It's because those games incorporated all the NPCs in the world. Not just stuck people here or there that ment nothing to the player at all.

When I'm looking for a good FF MMO i'm going to compare the game to XI, simply because that was a successful FF MMO. I would hope that SE took what worked best from XI and would incorporate that into FFXIV. Instead it seems what they did was the exact opposite. They took what worked and was great about XI and either dumped it or did the complete opposite, case in point the AH. This game will be compared to every other MMO that is out there and will come. As will DCUniverse and the new Star Wars when it comes out. Same as any action RPG will be compared to ME2, or any hack and slash will be compared to GoW.
#17 Jan 13 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Funny that the OP only requests admin attention for people who mention WoW. It's apparently okay to derail a thread for 4 pages worth of "FF9 >>>>>>>> all" but because that's tangentially relevant (another SE/FF title) vs. tangentially relevant (another MMO)....errr...what?

How about, instead of ignore the WoW posters, we go for an "ignore the xenophobe poster" campaign? Butthurt and thin skinned that you can't enjoy FFXIV but other people have things to say about other games in a related genre? Seeya! And then...and then and then and then....we can all join in the "report random threads to irritate the admins" campaign. Doesn't matter what the thread or post is about, just report it and demand it be moved to the OOT forums. Huzzah!

I'm not sure any of you realize it but it's not other people bringing up WoW that degrades the forums. It's the butthurt smacktards that get all flame-y whenever WoW comes up that make it a problem. So maybe just own your own **** and get over it.
#18 Jan 13 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Funny that the OP only requests admin attention for people who mention WoW. It's apparently okay to derail a thread for 4 pages worth of "FF9 >>>>>>>> all" but because that's tangentially relevant (another SE/FF title) vs. tangentially relevant (another MMO)....errr...what?

How about, instead of ignore the WoW posters, we go for an "ignore the xenophobe poster" campaign? Butthurt and thin skinned that you can't enjoy FFXIV but other people have things to say about other games in a related genre? Seeya! And then...and then and then and then....we can all join in the "report random threads to irritate the admins" campaign. Doesn't matter what the thread or post is about, just report it and demand it be moved to the OOT forums. Huzzah!

I'm not sure any of you realize it but it's not other people bringing up WoW that degrades the forums. It's the butthurt smacktards that get all flame-y whenever WoW comes up that make it a problem. So maybe just own your own sh*t and get over it.

I only mentioned WoW, because the WoW posters are the biggest offenders. The same thing goes for Rift, LOTR etc.

Obviously the Admins can't be bothered to do their jobs, so I'm suggesting a solution that would actually work. Clearly, karma does not.
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#19 Jan 13 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's the butthurt smacktards that get all flame-y whenever WoW comes up that make it a problem.


having seen several threads in the FFXIV forums turn from discusion of FFXIV or the forums themselves to "which wow expansion is better" in the past few days, I agree with the OP that it is an issue the admins SHOULD look at.

seriously, I came here to read about and discuss FFXIV, not WoW. I came here to read about and discuss FFXIV not trolls who think the game should be shut down. I could go on but you will just call me a "butthurt smacktard" for thinking that a civil discussion can happen within those guidelines.
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#20 Jan 13 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Its not as much the people who bring up WoW or other games as it is people like yourself, OP, who don't understand the debate that may be taking place. It's one thing for someone to say "WoW did this right, it's been proven. FFXIV should use it in this way." There is just as much posting about FFXI, Rift, and other games as WoW. Its a forum about an ever changing game, in a genre where you want to take the best of the best to make a better game, so discussion of other competing MMOs is inevitable. It is people like yourself, however, that derail topics. People who post "We don't need a WoW/FFXI clone." or "If you like WoW/FFXI so much, why don't you play it instead."

Seldom have I seen pure discussion of another game without relating to FFXIV in some way. People aren't always trying to just talk about another game. Sometimes there are serious points that people refuse to look at because they see WoW and immediately go into ****-hurt mode. Try to look at the debate in a non subjective way instead of immediately criticizing someone for bringing up a point of discussion, even if that involves talking about a game you may or may not like.

Aurelius wrote:
I'm not sure any of you realize it but it's not other people bringing up WoW that degrades the forums. It's the butthurt smacktards that get all flame-y whenever WoW comes up that make it a problem. So maybe just own your own sh*t and get over it.

Didn't even see your post at first, I agree 100% on that point.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 3:10pm by Domino7337
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#21 Jan 13 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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#22 Jan 13 2011 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Funny that the OP only requests admin attention for people who mention WoW. It's apparently okay to derail a thread for 4 pages worth of "FF9 >>>>>>>> all" but because that's tangentially relevant (another SE/FF title) vs. tangentially relevant (another MMO)....errr...what?

How about, instead of ignore the WoW posters, we go for an "ignore the xenophobe poster" campaign? Butthurt and thin skinned that you can't enjoy FFXIV but other people have things to say about other games in a related genre? Seeya! And then...and then and then and then....we can all join in the "report random threads to irritate the admins" campaign. Doesn't matter what the thread or post is about, just report it and demand it be moved to the OOT forums. Huzzah!

I'm not sure any of you realize it but it's not other people bringing up WoW that degrades the forums. It's the butthurt smacktards that get all flame-y whenever WoW comes up that make it a problem. So maybe just own your own sh*t and get over it.

I only mentioned WoW, because the WoW posters are the biggest offenders. The same thing goes for Rift, LOTR etc.

Obviously the Admins can't be bothered to do their jobs, so I'm suggesting a solution that would actually work. Clearly, karma does not.


Actually, it seems to me that the admins of late have been doing a fairly decent job. I'm just curious as to why you chose to single out WoW when the biggest derail I can see is in the "MMO Mentality" thread and it has extremely little to do with WoW. You mention people bringing up other MMOs as being "offenders". Guess what? FFXIV is, for all practical intents and purposes, back in the development stages. That lends to speculation about what might be around the corner, and that means the field of reference expands. There's nothing wrong with referencing other games. But something that always happens in that case is you xenophobes get your jammies all in a wad at the mention of "that game that makes me rage".

Again...get over it, or at least make an effort to PRETEND you aren't packing around a massive bias and try to be a little objective, ya? Why not a complaint about derails in general? Oh...because it's not about derails. It's you being butthurt at the mention of other games no matter how significant.

Baseless complaints are baseless.
#23 Jan 13 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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taliph wrote:
Quote:
It's the butthurt smacktards that get all flame-y whenever WoW comes up that make it a problem.


having seen several threads in the FFXIV forums turn from discusion of FFXIV or the forums themselves to "which wow expansion is better" in the past few days, I agree with the OP that it is an issue the admins SHOULD look at.

seriously, I came here to read about and discuss FFXIV, not WoW. I came here to read about and discuss FFXIV not trolls who think the game should be shut down. I could go on but you will just call me a "butthurt smacktard" for thinking that a civil discussion can happen within those guidelines.


It seems to me that civil discussion would include acceptance of points of view that are formed in part from experiences in other games. Don't play the "civil discussion" card in a thread that boils down to intolerance. Hypocrisy is also not a part of civil discussion, so check yourself before you get on the bandwagon.
#24 Jan 13 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Hypocrisy is also not a part of civil discussion, so check yourself before you get on the bandwagon.


sure, I guess I'm a hypocrite for picking a FFXIV forum to discuss FFXIV, I'm also a hypocrite for not wanting to see discussions about "which wow expansion is more difficult" in said FFXIV forum. Especially in the middle of a thread about how these derailments have already become an issue for alot of posters.

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#25 Jan 13 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Simool wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
taliph wrote:
they get enough reports, they will do something. if every off topic post in the other thread were reported by several people the admins would have to be high to not notice.


I've reported such threads before and the admins reply that the karma system is functioning as intended. Meaning they expect us to self-moderate such posts by rating them down. As far as I know, they won't delete posts unless absolutely necessary, ie. un-sensored swearing.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 12:53pm by Hydragyrum


The karma system does not work, it is only a popularity poll for the self conscious.


Rate up

Wait... sh*t.


Huh?...Oh sure There ya go anything else ya need...anything?


Twenty bucks?


sure..np.

buckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuck

and your tip. b.

and regarding OP...c'mon...Thicken your skin up a bit. Go to the Rift forums. You will see discussions and debates involving all the current MMOs compared to the upcoming Rift release at the end of February.. Heck...even FFXIV is a topic once in awhile. But those posters have confidence in the RIFT product and welcome the challenge to beat down anyone who comes in trying to throw their weight around. Its all part of being part of a solid community. If FFXIV cannot stand up and defend itself...well...too bad so sad. Maybe someday it will...but right now, we have topics like this, random phrase threads, weird one liner threads that mean nothing, yet we all give them attention. As we sit around and wait...all kinds of non-ingame related topics are going to start to pop up.

If you don't like a discussion that involves another game...maybe don't read that thread. But to blame the admins...umm no, not the best way to get their attention.
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#26 Jan 13 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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taliph wrote:
Quote:
Hypocrisy is also not a part of civil discussion, so check yourself before you get on the bandwagon.


sure, I guess I'm a hypocrite for picking a FFXIV forum to discuss FFXIV, I'm also a hypocrite for not wanting to see discussions about "which wow expansion is more difficult" in said FFXIV forum. Especially in the middle of a thread about how these derailments have already become an issue for alot of posters.



But 4 pages of which FF title was the best fly right under your radar, is that it? Why not an "Ignore Mikhalia Campaign"? If you're looking to cut off the lion's share of the derails, that would probably be one of the best places to start, wouldn't it? Objectively speaking, of course. I have nothing against Mikhalia on a personal level but if you're in the mood for a good derail, he's the go-to guy around here. But that doesn't matter, does it?

FFXIV is an incomplete game. It's a game that could either be corrected and spend the next 5-10+ years clinging to a niche corner of the market or it's a game that could follow in the footsteps of Tabula Rasa and APB (are you going to report me for bringing those up, too?) There's just not enough going on in FFXIV right now to expect a forum full of lively discussions on all things FFXIV. That's a fact, Jack. If it's a case of people coming along and saying things like, "lolol WoW is awesome and you all suck for playing FFXIV" then ya, that crosses a line. But until SE gets up off it and gets on with it and makes FFXIV a robust enough game to keep a forum churning with on-topic discussion, this is what you've got.
#27 Jan 13 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Default
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taliph wrote:
Quote:
Hypocrisy is also not a part of civil discussion, so check yourself before you get on the bandwagon.


sure, I guess I'm a hypocrite for picking a FFXIV forum to discuss FFXIV, I'm also a hypocrite for not wanting to see discussions about "which wow expansion is more difficult" in said FFXIV forum. Especially in the middle of a thread about how these derailments have already become an issue for alot of posters.



Are you seriously butthurt that we where talking about what wow expansion was harder than the other ?

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#28 Jan 13 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
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You know, the more I see this attitude, the more I suspect they aren't playing FFXIV. THEY ARE NOT PLAYING WORLD OF WARCRAFT.
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#29 Jan 13 2011 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius:

He chose to pick WoW because of posts like this one.

Which, honestly, end up in threads that tend to attract derails.
#30 Jan 13 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
But 4 pages of which FF title was the best fly right under your radar, is that it? Why not an "Ignore Mikhalia Campaign"? If you're looking to cut off the lion's share of the derails, that would probably be one of the best places to start, wouldn't it? Objectively speaking, of course. I have nothing against Mikhalia on a personal level but if you're in the mood for a good derail, he's the go-to guy around here. But that doesn't matter, does it?


Nice strawman, I agree that 4 pages of anything off topic in a thread should be addressed by admins in some way.

Aurelius wrote:
FFXIV is an incomplete game. It's a game that could either be corrected and spend the next 5-10+ years clinging to a niche corner of the market or it's a game that could follow in the footsteps of Tabula Rasa and APB (are you going to report me for bringing those up, too?) There's just not enough going on in FFXIV right now to expect a forum full of lively discussions on all things FFXIV. That's a fact, Jack. If it's a case of people coming along and saying things like, "lolol WoW is awesome and you all suck for playing FFXIV" then ya, that crosses a line. But until SE gets up off it and gets on with it and makes FFXIV a robust enough game to keep a forum churning with on-topic discussion, this is what you've got.


Another strawman, maybe they should change your 10k title to "the strawman" since you love them so much. Compairing a feature from FFXIV to another game is obviously within the realm of "on topic" but how is "which WoW expansion is better"?

Ostia wrote:
Are you seriously butthurt that we where talking about what wow expansion was harder than the other


In a thread and forum about FFXIV, yes... how is that related AT ALL to FFXIV? simple, it isnt.

Edit: to fix roman numerals

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 1:48pm by taliph
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#31Ostia, Posted: Jan 13 2011 at 2:45 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So aurelius is obviously a wower, when are we getting the pitchforks ?
#32 Jan 13 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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They've deleted some posts doctor mog made when he was trolling threads, like recruitment posts.
They do moderate, just may not notice it as much.

As far as people posting WoW stuff, WoW is the #1 MMO, and whether you like it or not it's the standard for MMOs, so as a result everything will be compared to it and judged by it, and people will request features from it. This is because their systems work very well, sure the game may overall be easy, but you have to admit it's been very well designed in their systems that work.

Think about if FFXIV had instanced dungeons, with a random party finder that was cross-server. **** think about how that would have fixed being LFG for 6 hours in 11.


Anyways just because WoW has something nice, and someone compares it to FFXIV doesn't mean people prefer WoW over 14. They are here aren't they? Obviously WoW is lacking something they want out of a game, but that doesn't mean they discredit everything WoW has. All MMOs probably have something you can take away from them that worked very well.

I'll cite LOTROs Deed system (Like an achievement system but where each achievement boosted your stats), FFXIs content, EQ1s penaltys adding a risk to the world, UOs PVP, etc, DDOs combat...

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#33 Jan 13 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
Aurelius:

He chose to pick WoW because of posts like this one.

Which, honestly, end up in threads that tend to attract derails.


You know, it's funny you point that out because that derail started when someone told another poster to go back to WoW because it was easy mode since BC. But that doesn't matter, right? It doesn't matter that it STARTS when someone makes a comment like, "go back to WoW then". A xenophobe starts it, an intolerant monkey starts it, a dare I say it...butthurt smacktard...starts it, and all of a sudden it's another anti-WoW crusade.

Awesome stuff. Entirely typical, and awesome.
#34 Jan 13 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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taliph wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
But 4 pages of which FF title was the best fly right under your radar, is that it? Why not an "Ignore Mikhalia Campaign"? If you're looking to cut off the lion's share of the derails, that would probably be one of the best places to start, wouldn't it? Objectively speaking, of course. I have nothing against Mikhalia on a personal level but if you're in the mood for a good derail, he's the go-to guy around here. But that doesn't matter, does it?


Nice strawman, I agree that 4 pages of anything off topic in a thread should be addressed by admins in some way.


Do you know what a strawman argument is? I don't think you do.

Quote:
Another strawman, maybe they should change your 10k title to "the strawman" since you love them so much. Compairing a feature from FFXIV to another game is obviously within the realm of "on topic" but how is "which WoW expansion is better"?


Ya, go read the thread again, sport. It wasn't a "WoW poster" that started that derail, so get informed or stfu, k?
#35 Jan 13 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Do you know what a strawman argument is? I don't think you do.


do you?

Wikipedia wrote:
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position


you were misrepresenting my position by making claims that I do want other forms of thread derailment beyond the examples that I put forth.

Aurelius wrote:
Ya, go read the thread again, sport. It wasn't a "WoW poster" that started that derail, so get informed or stfu, k?


Takes more then one post to derail a thread.
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#36 Jan 13 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:

It seems to me that civil discussion would include acceptance of points of view that are formed in part from experiences in other games.

That's all well and good, the trouble is there are way too **** many posts on here about WoW machanics, or which WoW expansion is better for example, that make no relation what-so-ever to FFXIV. Like I said, Wow Isn't the only game that gets way too much space on this site, it's just the game I see the most OT discussions about.

lol, at the thicken my skin up comment. I'm a pretty think skinned individual. I'm just annoyed at how many off-topic posts there are that have nothing to do with FFXIV. They annoy me as much as all the complaint threads.

By ignoring the biggest offenders, I'm cleaning up what I can see on the forums, and making them a better place for myself. I know there are folks on this site that feel the same way. Join me in my campaign or not, it's up to you, but I'm not here to argue with anyone about it.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 4:11pm by Jefro420
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#37 Jan 13 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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taliph wrote:

Takes more then one post to derail a thread.



I'd say we're at just about the right number of off-topic posts for this thread to be officially declared "Derailed."

Edit. Okay, now we are, after the rift poster this thread has been more than derailed <.<



Edited, Jan 13th 2011 3:10pm by Uryuu
#38 Jan 13 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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taliph wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Do you know what a strawman argument is? I don't think you do.


do you?


Ya, I do, and I wasn't making strawman arguments.

Quote:
Wikipedia wrote:
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position


you were misrepresenting my position by making claims that I do want other forms of thread derailment beyond the examples that I put forth.


Right, so you come in and respond to one of my posts challenging the OP's choice to make this about "WoW posters" instead of what is apparently the real issue which is now derailments in general and now, since you apparently don't understand the word "context" it's all a strawman, amirite? Just don't even, guy. You're out of your league.

Quote:
Aurelius wrote:
Ya, go read the thread again, sport. It wasn't a "WoW poster" that started that derail, so get informed or stfu, k?


Takes more then one post to derail a thread.
[/quote]

Right, and it's a "WoW poster" that needs to be ignored because of what a xenophobe started. Awesome. Get a clue, sport.
#39 Jan 13 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Rift is a wow clone, it's not impressive at all. Wonder how much in royalties Blizzard is getting? I'll stick with building my castle in the sand.
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#40Aurelius, Posted: Jan 13 2011 at 3:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wait a second, here. FFXIV is broken. It's incomplete. It lacks a great many things and of those things it does have, many of them are poorly done. And you think that people are in the wrong for referencing successful mechanics from other games? No.
#41 Jan 13 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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Could you call me sport next time?

I thrive off condescension!
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#42 Jan 13 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
But 4 pages of which FF title was the best fly right under your radar, is that it? Why not an "Ignore Mikhalia Campaign"? If you're looking to cut off the lion's share of the derails, that would probably be one of the best places to start, wouldn't it? Objectively speaking, of course. I have nothing against Mikhalia on a personal level but if you're in the mood for a good derail, he's the go-to guy around here. But that doesn't matter, does it?


Actually, I believe I read Rog's post on =3 about how it won't let you ignore yourself. So much for that idea. :)

Stealing this one from Geffe:

Screenshot
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#43 Jan 13 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I must apologize.

I'm the one that started all this by telling the other poster that everything he wanted to see in FFXIV was from WoW and that he should go back to WoW if he wanted to play WoW. Then it started derailing, I participated for a few posts because what he said was totally dumb. And I stepped out of it because arguing on the internet is like trying to teach a dog to speak...

It wasn't my intention to derail that post. As for WoW poster, if they do talk about WoW to compare aspects of the game, fine by me.

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#44 Jan 13 2011 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Rift is a wow clone, it's not impressive at all. Wonder how much in royalties Blizzard is getting? I'll stick with building my castle in the sand.


Have you...played it? Something tells me you haven't. And it's a **** shame, really, because it has a lot of neat elements to it and if you were smart enough to see the relevance to a situation such as FFXIV, you could be examining some of those elements and taking the general concepts back to SE and saying, "This is an example of something I like vs. what you gave us."

The trend here from day one has been to make off-the-cuff criticisms of things the people complaining have no real experience with and that's just a lose-lose situation. You lose for not being open-minded enough to evaluate things on a component basis and you lose for not being intelligent enough to see how, "I don't know what I like I just know this isn't it!!" doesn't help developers to make better games. And when you couple that with the laughable, "OMG this is so awesome but when you do it in FFXIV I suddenly hate it!" you end up with...FFXIV.
#45 Jan 13 2011 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
But 4 pages of which FF title was the best fly right under your radar, is that it? Why not an "Ignore Mikhalia Campaign"? If you're looking to cut off the lion's share of the derails, that would probably be one of the best places to start, wouldn't it? Objectively speaking, of course. I have nothing against Mikhalia on a personal level but if you're in the mood for a good derail, he's the go-to guy around here. But that doesn't matter, does it?


Actually, I believe I read Rog's post on =3 about how it won't let you ignore yourself. So much for that idea. :)


Well then, you just have to be the black sheep in the whole campaign. That's what you get!
#46 Jan 13 2011 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
since you apparently don't understand the word "context" it's all a strawman, amirite?


Context is exactly the point being argued, in the context of a FFXIV forum, discussions solely about anything else would be off topic.
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#47 Jan 13 2011 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I was in the beta test this past weekend. I have a screen shot of their version of a murloc if you'd like to see it.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 4:18pm by Spyrit178
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#48 Jan 13 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Default
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taliph wrote:
Quote:
since you apparently don't understand the word "context" it's all a strawman, amirite?


Context is exactly the point being argued, in the context of a FFXIV forum, discussions solely about anything else would be off topic.


Did you not read the thread title? The OP didn't make a thread about derailing...he made a thread calling for "WoW posters" to be placed on ignore. Because the OP is none too bright, and you're lumping yourself in with him. Suit yourself.
#49 Jan 13 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
Rift is a wow clone, it's not impressive at all. Wonder how much in royalties Blizzard is getting? I'll stick with building my castle in the sand.


Have you...played it? Something tells me you haven't. And it's a **** shame, really, because it has a lot of neat elements to it and if you were smart enough to see the relevance to a situation such as FFXIV, you could be examining some of those elements and taking the general concepts back to SE and saying, "This is an example of something I like vs. what you gave us."

The trend here from day one has been to make off-the-cuff criticisms of things the people complaining have no real experience with and that's just a lose-lose situation. You lose for not being open-minded enough to evaluate things on a component basis and you lose for not being intelligent enough to see how, "I don't know what I like I just know this isn't it!!" doesn't help developers to make better games. And when you couple that with the laughable, "OMG this is so awesome but when you do it in FFXIV I suddenly hate it!" you end up with...FFXIV.


Without regard to Rift, because I haven't played it and therefore have no opinion beyond "I think the UI looks too much like WoW for my liking", I do agree that he has a point in the latter part of his post.

In regards to the thread derails... to be fair, I didn't start any of the WoW content derails (although I did participate in the first one). As for my single player RPG derail... perhaps it wasn't intentional, but I'm pleased with where it took the thread, derail or not.
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
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Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#50 Jan 13 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
But 4 pages of which FF title was the best fly right under your radar, is that it? Why not an "Ignore Mikhalia Campaign"? If you're looking to cut off the lion's share of the derails, that would probably be one of the best places to start, wouldn't it? Objectively speaking, of course. I have nothing against Mikhalia on a personal level but if you're in the mood for a good derail, he's the go-to guy around here. But that doesn't matter, does it?


Actually, I believe I read Rog's post on =3 about how it won't let you ignore yourself. So much for that idea. :)


Well then, you just have to be the black sheep in the whole campaign. That's what you get!


I'm not sure it the appropriate response is Smiley: grin or Smiley: cry.
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#51 Jan 13 2011 at 3:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't want to jump in on the who started it game, but I saw this post a few minutes ago.

guy 1 : I would like FFXIV to have instances.

Guy 2 : so you want FFXIV to be wow.


Seriously, some people are just foaming at the mouth about wow and anything remotely related to it. The lulz of it is most games have instances. BCNMs were instances, several mission fights in FFXI were instances. **** missions are instanced in this game, they're just boring as ****. People hear warcraft and stop thinking.

Seriously though, threads derail. Happens to all of them after a while. It occurs when people are engaged in a discussion on a discussion forum. Thats why we seem to see the same threads popping up every week, its easier than trying to get things on topic again.
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