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#1 Jan 13 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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So, is anyone else getting excited about the results tomorrow ?

I forget what time the poll closes tomorrow, but Im hoping that they can at least present back to us the results of it in some form or another.

My bet is on the AH being top....fingers crossed its content though !!

Also, if you have nothing constructive to say please ignore this thread...
#2 Jan 13 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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My bet is on the AH being top....fingers crossed its content though


I think they'll be neck and neck. I'm really hoping people are wanting to add more content first though, then focus on the AH. Or heck, both at the same time would be awesome.
#3 Jan 13 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm more excited to see what the dev team plans on doing with the feedback. In the past (FFXI) they just did w/e they wanted. Maybe that will change here.

Anyway, my predictions:

Screenshot
#4 Jan 13 2011 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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Something tells me they're not going to give us the results right away, but I hope I'm wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if they wait a bit to discuss the results and come up with a short term plan before announcing anything to us.
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#5 Jan 13 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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See I did consider that they may not publish the results and/or give us any information regarding them. However fingers crossed, the fact that SE havent provided us with anything substantial for nigh over a month, I figured showing the results would give the commuinity something more positive to discuss.

Im hoping for content.... I can almost smell the cho'bo dung..
#6 Jan 13 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I really don't think very many people voted for PvP. Can you imagine how boring PvP would be with the current combat system? PvP is about reflexes and counter abilities. FFXIV doesn't really have/require that.

I'm hoping for new content and/or auction house. If they add PvP in the future, I'm totally fine with it. I will not be taking part in it unless they scrap the battle system though, again.
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#7 Jan 13 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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ElDoyen wrote:
I can almost smell the cho'bo dung..



I so did not need that visual...
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#8 Jan 13 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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All of my friends, myself included scoffed at the Auction House question. I mean sure, it's nice and to be quite honest I'm one of those people who want it in the game. But we have to be honest. The Market Wards are working pretty okay right now. Not great, but it's something I can live with. We all voted for content, the Auction House can come later.

In fact; I took the poll to be more "We're including ALL of this eventually but what do you want first and foremost?" Instead of "Pick one and one only. Thanks." which is what some of the threads seem to indicate people are thinking.
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#9 Jan 13 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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Kitprower wrote:


In fact; I took the poll to be more "We're including ALL of this eventually but what do you want first and foremost?" Instead of "Pick one and one only. Thanks." which is what some of the threads seem to indicate people are thinking.


That is a very half-full observation. I like that idea.
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#10 Jan 13 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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I wish they don't show us the result, because I predict a lot of people will understand it as a definitive and absolute planning.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 5:27pm by GenzaiKawakami
#11 Jan 13 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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Hopefully they will just label the results as results though...not that it what is written is law...if you get me ?

Quote:
I so did not need that visual...


Pungent isnt it lol
#12 Jan 13 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
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sideways wrote:
I'm more excited to see what the dev team plans on doing with the feedback. In the past (FFXI) they just did w/e they wanted. Maybe that will change here.

Anyway, my predictions:

Screenshot


And thus people will ***** that the AH they wanted SE will focus on implementing as the main addition to an update instead of real content. <3 people. Anyway, hopefully it was event and people didn't go overboard with that AH ****, because theres far more important things they can focus on. Smiley: grin
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#13 Jan 13 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think (well, I hope mostly) that AH will come first. The market ward (if not crashing so much) is good enough at the moment and the game needs more content for immersion. An AH won't make us having more different things to do which is needed for people not to get bored. This is just my opinion. Quests 'a la' FFXI is what I would like to see. I like cutscenes and FF has always been (since FFVII at least) very good at that (in my opninion again). To answer the OP, i'm more excited about the next version update following the poll ;)
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#14 Jan 13 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm actually going to be irritated if we get an auction house BEFORE content.

I'm not having issues finding stuff to buy i'm having issues finding stuff to do.

They don't need an AH they just need to make some more tweaks to the wards, what's nice about the wards is that sometimes you get to sell items overpriced because players haven't checked every other vendor yet, an AH shows all items at all price levels making it impossible to keep prices up.

Don't think that's a bad thing? Go to your market wards right now and look for gear ranging from 1 to 30, theres hardly any in stock because its not profitable anymore. When you can make a decent profit on all gear, then all gear is for sale. Unlike FFXI and WoW people don't really make armor to level up, because it takes a lot of classes to make stuff.


An AH would make it so that the person pricing Shards at 80 gil will undercut everyone else with ease.



Anyways sure an AH would help things a bit, but theres absolutely no way it should be #1 priority. Chocobos and Ishgard and more quests should be way higher priority than the ability to buy more crap.
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#15 Jan 13 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's only one prediction I can make about the poll results with 100% certainty:

People will ***** about them.
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#16 Jan 13 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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ElDoyen wrote:
My bet is on the AH being top....fingers crossed its content though !!


But putting in an AH will solve all my problems... for the subsequent fifteen minutes after implementation... at which point I am going to come back to 'Zam to badmouth the game, to air my boredom for everyone, and to loudly vocalize my overall dissatisfaction -- pretending, in essence, that even though SE listened to me, they should have ignored me (although I would have had ample ammunition either way ~_^).
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#17 Jan 13 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Eadieni wrote:
what's nice about the wards is that sometimes you get to sell items overpriced because players haven't checked every other vendor yet, an AH shows all items at all price levels making it impossible to keep prices up.
[...]
Go to your market wards right now and look for gear ranging from 1 to 30, theres hardly any in stock because its not profitable anymore.
[...]
An AH would make it so that the person pricing Shards at 80 gil will undercut everyone else with ease.


So you get to sell things overpriced in the wards... but the wards aren't profitable and there is "hardly [anything] in stock"... but an auction house would make people undercut, ensuring things aren't profitable anymore?

After reading your post, I can't tell what side you're on! XD
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#18 Jan 13 2011 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Eadieni wrote:
what's nice about the wards is that sometimes you get to sell items overpriced because players haven't checked every other vendor yet, an AH shows all items at all price levels making it impossible to keep prices up.
[...]
Go to your market wards right now and look for gear ranging from 1 to 30, theres hardly any in stock because its not profitable anymore.
[...]
An AH would make it so that the person pricing Shards at 80 gil will undercut everyone else with ease.


So you get to sell things overpriced in the wards... but the wards aren't profitable and there is "hardly [anything] in stock"... but an auction house would make people undercut, ensuring things aren't profitable anymore?

After reading your post, I can't tell what side you're on! XD

Was saying I like the current system, it just needs a few tweaks. Namely, a way for us to find items placed in the wrong wards - like perhaps having the Search showing -which- ward the item is in.
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#19 Jan 13 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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I would think they won't announce anything until Monday at the earliest. I'm sure they will take the weekend to analyze the poll and make a lodestone post about it either Monday or some other day next week.

I'd love to be wrong and hear something tomorrow though Smiley: nod

It will be interesting to hear what the majority of the playerbase wants. I'm worried but interested none the less.

Whatever results there are you can bet there will still be plenty of this in the coming months:

Quote:
But putting in an AH will solve all my problems... for the subsequent fifteen minutes after implementation... at which point I am going to come back to 'Zam to badmouth the game, to air my boredom for everyone, and to loudly vocalize my overall dissatisfaction -- pretending, in essence, that even though SE listened to me, they should have ignored me (although I would have had ample ammunition either way ~_^)


Edited, Jan 13th 2011 6:03pm by Libtech
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#20 Jan 13 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Eadieni wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Eadieni wrote:
what's nice about the wards is that sometimes you get to sell items overpriced because players haven't checked every other vendor yet, an AH shows all items at all price levels making it impossible to keep prices up.
[...]
Go to your market wards right now and look for gear ranging from 1 to 30, theres hardly any in stock because its not profitable anymore.
[...]
An AH would make it so that the person pricing Shards at 80 gil will undercut everyone else with ease.


So you get to sell things overpriced in the wards... but the wards aren't profitable and there is "hardly [anything] in stock"... but an auction house would make people undercut, ensuring things aren't profitable anymore?

After reading your post, I can't tell what side you're on! XD

Was saying I like the current system, it just needs a few tweaks. Namely, a way for us to find items placed in the wrong wards - like perhaps having the Search showing -which- ward the item is in.


That's for sure.

A few improvements off the top of my head: allow the option to search by item name; show where all instances of the item appear; fix retainer D/C issues; add filters and sort options (such as "by class," "by colour," "by type," &c.); and allow easier, faster (maybe even somewhat remote) transfer of items to and from one's retainer(s). I'm sure there are several more good ones, though.
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#21 Jan 13 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I don't mind walking to the vendor to buy it from them. Keeps the immersion kind of.

It's just annoying when people sell stuff in the wrong ward, and you know its for sale but have to check each one.
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#22 Jan 13 2011 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Libtech wrote:
I would think they won't announce anything until Monday at the earliest. I'm sure they will take the weekend to analyze the poll and make a lodestone post about it either Monday or some other day next week.




Yeah I don't see SE saying anything tomorrow.

Though I'm fairly sure the next thing they post will be a plan. Why post the results? The only thing that does is satiate our curiosity.

I'm sure they're working on a lot of things right now and probably already have prioritized things based off of a majority of the surveys. At least, that's what I'd do if I were them.

#23 Jan 13 2011 at 6:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kierk wrote:
Libtech wrote:
I would think they won't announce anything until Monday at the earliest. I'm sure they will take the weekend to analyze the poll and make a lodestone post about it either Monday or some other day next week.




Yeah I don't see SE saying anything tomorrow.

Though I'm fairly sure the next thing they post will be a plan. Why post the results? The only thing that does is satiate our curiosity.

I'm sure they're working on a lot of things right now and probably already have prioritized things based off of a majority of the surveys. At least, that's what I'd do if I were them.



I'd like to see the raw results, even if the plan isn't included. I love data.

EDIT: Statistical information, not the guy from Star Trek.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 7:03pm by Mikhalia
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#24 Jan 13 2011 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Though I'm fairly sure the next thing they post will be a plan. Why post the results? The only thing that does is satiate our curiosity.


I am quite doubtful about that to be honest.

It'd be very anticlimatic. "SO yeah here's the plan guys... okay payments start in February $_$"

Announcing it on the "3rd Division Fanfest" or something (XI+XIV) would make more sense from PR standpoint. Especially if you have some "overhauls" to present to the community. Gotta make us think that "wow, with these kind of plans I'll surely pay to see them!" instead of "so, the game changed a bit and now we have to pay.. yeah, no."

Both XI and XIV would greatly benefit from a fanfest this year, that's for sure.

Also, Mikhalia hit the nail on the head.

Quote:
There's only one prediction I can make about the poll results with 100% certainty:

People will ***** about them.


What the majority feel like they should do is not what they should do.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 3:09am by Hyanmen
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#25 Jan 13 2011 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I can't see the actual hard results of the poll being that great of a help.
With the way players are divided there's no doubt the results will be scattered all over the place, likely with no correlation at all.

Hopefully this will give the devs the correct nudge: Instead of wasting this week on collecting "data" you could have acted on your initiative and realised it's not for us to deicde the direction of the game, thats your job. Asking the playerbase just leads to arguments and debates over what each individual thinks is best.
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#26 Jan 13 2011 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Hopefully this will give the devs the correct nudge: Instead of wasting this week on collecting "data" you could have acted on your initiative and realised it's not for us to deicde the direction of the game, thats your job. Asking the playerbase just leads to arguments and debates over what each individual thinks is best.


You honestly think they did this because they are too lazy to do their job?

They did it because we asked them to do it. We wanted 'both ways' communication. As far as they're concerned they'd probably rather keep doing what they've done in the past- lurk fansites for feedback, update the game based on that feedback.

But to the community if they aren't constantly making us feel like we're being involved in the process all the time, we *****.

And if we are being involved, we ***** that it's their job to decide, not ours.



Edited, Jan 14th 2011 3:41am by Hyanmen
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Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#27 Jan 13 2011 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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ditx wrote:
Well, I can't see the actual hard results of the poll being that great of a help.
With the way players are divided there's no doubt the results will be scattered all over the place, likely with no correlation at all.

Hopefully this will give the devs the correct nudge: Instead of wasting this week on collecting "data" you could have acted on your initiative and realised it's not for us to deicde the direction of the game, thats your job. Asking the playerbase just leads to arguments and debates over what each individual thinks is best.


While I don't really disagree, I have to say that even if they just secretly fill all the poll results away in the trash can and do whatever they want anyway, the fact that they made a poll in the first place gives the impression that they DO want to know what we want and what we think; an all-too-frequent complaint about FFXI; that the devs only communicate through a one way street of "We do it and we tell you about it". Even if they really do ignore us, and I'm not saying I think they should or will, the fact that they're asking us what we think would indicate that they're trying to overcome that one way street barrier.

I like it.
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#28 Jan 13 2011 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
What the majority feel like they should do is not what they should do.


This is not always the case. Sometimes the majority knows what they are talking about. For instance, when the majority said that the game was **** poor at release, they were correct. It's a crapshoot just like anything else. Sometimes the majority has it right, sometimes they are just being whiny.

As for the results, don't be surprised if we NEVER find out what they are. To be honest, with SE, I wouldn't be surprised either way. They could give us all the data they collected and prove that they are becoming a more customer friendly company, or they could do what they have always tended to in the past and keep everything secretive and selectively tell us only what they want us to know. I'm leaning more towards the latter, but HOPING that isn't the case.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 7:45pm by BartelX
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#29 Jan 13 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This is not always the case. Sometimes the majority knows what they are talking about.


Yeah, I was talking more in general sense. If we want the game to become the best it can be, they can't just do what we tell them to do- nor can they live in a vacuum either. Both extremes will hurt this game in the long run.
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Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#30 Jan 13 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
This is not always the case. Sometimes the majority knows what they are talking about.


Yeah, I was talking more in general sense. If we want the game to become the best it can be, they can't just do what we tell them to do- nor can they live in a vacuum either. Both extremes will hurt this game in the long run.


I completely agree with you there. It should always be about give and take. Completely ignore the fans and they will just stop playing. Give in to all their requests and you've got a game that is easy-mode.
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#31 Jan 13 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
This is not always the case. Sometimes the majority knows what they are talking about.


Yeah, I was talking more in general sense. If we want the game to become the best it can be, they can't just do what we tell them to do- nor can they live in a vacuum either. Both extremes will hurt this game in the long run.


I've said this enough times that people can set their clocks to it:

There are two ways to ruin a game. One way is to do whatever your players tell you and the other is to ignore them.
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#32 Jan 13 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I've said this enough times that people can set their clocks to it:

There are two ways to ruin a game. One way is to do whatever your players tell you and the other is to ignore them.


That said, though, it makes me worried about this poll to be honest. I don't see how this data will help them if they're not going to follow it- but in the end, it may be just PR which I kinda hope it is.

Some of the questions are kinda "duh" though as far as answers go so I'm not that concerned. Basic communicashun 101.
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Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#33 Jan 13 2011 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Eadieni wrote:
Don't think that's a bad thing? Go to your market wards right now and look for gear ranging from 1 to 30, theres hardly any in stock because its not profitable anymore. When you can make a decent profit on all gear, then all gear is for sale. Unlike FFXI and WoW people don't really make armor to level up, because it takes a lot of classes to make stuff.


That all depends on your point of view, if I want to craft something for a profit I'd like to be able to know how many people are currently selling said items before I craft, I'd also like to know where there is a gap in the market that can be exploited (look, no 1-30 gear, maybe I can craft that!), if object X is selling well but requires object Y, I could look on an AH and see there are none for sale so, you know, sell them so people can make object X. The problem isn't that it's not profitable (I can make quite a lot selling low level CON weapons and rank 10 sub items for crafters - using only items I harvest myself or obtain really cheap) it's that you cannot find that 1 item that you require to make a stupid item which you cannot make yourself but would be part of a supply chain which currently doesn't exist because there is no possible way to judge popularity of item, or popularity of item required to make item, or popularity of base materials to make the item to make the item or whatever.

That said I didn't vote for an AH either, I just understand how powerful a market tool an AH can actually is, how it is a major boost to crafting/trading rather than the half ***** system SE has in place which goes down quicker than an Intern at the Whitehouse.
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#34 Jan 13 2011 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

I'd like to see the raw results, even if the plan isn't included. I love data.

EDIT: Statistical information, not the guy from Star Trek.


The correct answer was that you love both! >:[
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#35 Jan 13 2011 at 10:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Wards work now sort of, because there is no content, no events, nothing like that.

Hear me out:

How many times have you, in FFXI (or another game) been trying to get ready for an event, be it CoP, some other mission, a BCNM, or an endgame event. You're running a bit late or trying to hurry because people in your group have limited time.

So you need meds, pop items, reraise, maybe some updated gear. Run quickly to the AH, grab the items you need.


Now try to do that in FFXIV.... You will be late for your event, not make it at all, or your party will disband because you had to check 8 wards to find your meds and reraise items.


You need a 1 stop shop. It's practically an AH now but with more work running around. It's pretty pointless.


That said, I can deal with it if they are adding content instead.


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#36 Jan 13 2011 at 11:25 PM Rating: Good
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How do you people even think the AH is going to work?
XIV isn't XI. XIV is heavily based on crafters. Supply itself is going to undercut prices constantly if an AH is implemented. Let alone gil sellers.

The ward system is working great, and its obviously not finished. Stick to it. Its a lot more original and fun.
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#37 Jan 14 2011 at 12:45 AM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
How do you people even think the AH is going to work?
XIV isn't XI. XIV is heavily based on crafters. Supply itself is going to undercut prices constantly if an AH is implemented. Let alone gil sellers.

The ward system is working great, and its obviously not finished. Stick to it. Its a lot more original and fun.


this. implementing an AH will do virtually nothing to improve the fun factor of this game. You'd be a fool to prioritize an AH over content, and luckily it seems that the content people will win this one.

Market Wards aren't perfect by any means, but shopping is actually fun. I like that there is no price fixing. Its fun when you are comparing gear prices and stumble upon the piece you were looking for at some ridiculously low price.

it needs a lot of adjusting but i'd rather have this than an AH for now anyway.
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#38 Jan 14 2011 at 1:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Here's how to have an AH and Retainers co-exist:

Only allow commodity items on the AH; Crystals, raw materials, reagents, Parts, fish, etc.

Retainers / personal bazaars / direct trade would be the only ways to sell weapons, tools, armor, clothing, or other unique or rare items.

This preserves the chance to make a bit of extra profit on finished items without driving people nuts looking for that one last thing they need to finish a craft, or grab a few stacks of arrows or food or whatever.

It would also cut down on ward clutter since people wouldn't feel the need to have 8 different categories of items for sale at once with 7 of them wrong for the ward their retainer is in. Ever been frustrated trying to find that one oddball mat that makes the oddball repair material you need for a certain bit of gear, but nobody's selling the mat or the repair item? Sure would be nice to hit the AH, find no repair mats for sale or just one stupidly overpriced one, then quickly make a few for yourself (because the raw material WAS available) and a few extras to put up for a profitable but saner price on the AH
#39 Jan 14 2011 at 1:37 AM Rating: Decent
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KurisimasDay wrote:
Here's how to have an AH and Retainers co-exist:

Only allow commodity items on the AH; Crystals, raw materials, reagents, Parts, fish, etc.


SE should hire you asap. It's a good idea (although i'm no economist) because for me, it addresses the one major problem with the MWs. I have a feeling we'll see something along these lines at some point.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 2:37am by Llester
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#40 Jan 14 2011 at 1:46 AM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't hold my breath to see the actual results, ever.
It's better to just wait for update announcement based on those results. Those will probably take a lot of time to plan.
#41 Jan 14 2011 at 2:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Tell me why exactly should SE let a bunch of ungrateful people who don't even play the game anymore, or even bother to try it, shape its future?


Edited, Jan 14th 2011 3:57am by ditx
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#42 Jan 14 2011 at 3:18 AM Rating: Decent
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ditx wrote:
Tell me why exactly should SE let a bunch of ungrateful people who don't even play the game anymore, or even bother to try it, shape its future?


Edited, Jan 14th 2011 3:57am by ditx


Because those are the people they are trying to get to play the game, and buy a sub. The few thousand blind zealots that accept any PoS they are fed aren't going to turn a profit for SE.

"Ungrateful" is really an interesting word to use for people that don't play low quality games.

Some of you people act like SE is this great noble company that blessed you with a game to fill some void they saw you having in your heart. They are trying to make money. And the only people playing their game are goofballs that will eat any bowl of crap SE put's in front of them and ask for seconds.

SE gave us a game that is horrible, void of any redeeming value, and if you don't bend over and accept that you are just "ungrateful".

If these "ungrateful people" took the time to fill out this survey, they obviously still have some interest in this game. They just want it to be good.


Edited, Jan 14th 2011 8:37am by KristoFurwalken
#43 Jan 14 2011 at 6:19 AM Rating: Default
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
How do you people even think the AH is going to work?
XIV isn't XI. XIV is heavily based on crafters. Supply itself is going to undercut prices constantly if an AH is implemented. Let alone gil sellers.

The ward system is working great, and its obviously not finished. Stick to it. Its a lot more original and fun.


You're missing the other factor in that chain, demand. What is wrong with people that they consider the wards to be working brilliantly from a demand point of view? Are you all just looking at it from the viewpoint of a supply? With no demand there is no supply, with no supply there becomes a demand, how in the name of all that is holy can you judge demand of an item without a good cross reference (time of last sale, number of items sold per day etc), you cannot with the ward system.

I'm sorry, but in game economics are not something that can be thought of in such terms as "yeah, having two retainers over 3 (soon to be 4?) cities over however-many-floors-there-are is a wonderful idea!". Let's take Botany as an example, Botany pairs up with Carpentry rather well, so I take my tools and go out and log some trees, I get wood (fnar), branches, acorns, maple, beehive chips, feathers, I also stop by harvesting points and pick up flax, onions, cotton, straw, a whole plethora of items. I turn the wood into staves for CON, or into lumber, or into planks, I have two retainers out of a maximum of, let me count them, difficult... two, ok, right, still with me? I'm sure this is rather complicated so far. I decide to sell the wood on you know, the woodcutters floor, because I have a lot of that, but I also want to sell the onions, I don't need them, so I stick all the food related stuff onto my 2nd retainer and put that on the grocers ward, only I also want to sell the staves I made, but they have to go on the spellcaster ward, oh well, doesn't matter, if people want to find the staves they can come to the grocers ward......

You know the easiest way to use the retainers is? Grab as much stuff as you an and head over to the nearest store and NPC a ton of items which someone probably wants/needs, so yeah, keep kidding yourself that the retainer system is working brilliantly and deserves a chance and is better than an AH will ever be. An AH where you can have *shock* one per town allowing you to sell *shock* items in the best located town and sell *more shock* stuff in a nice orderly list where you can *even more shock* find what the **** you are looking for in the first place.
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#44 Jan 14 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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473 posts
KurisimasDay wrote:
Here's how to have an AH and Retainers co-exist:

Only allow commodity items on the AH; Crystals, raw materials, reagents, Parts, fish, etc.

Retainers / personal bazaars / direct trade would be the only ways to sell weapons, tools, armor, clothing, or other unique or rare items.

This preserves the chance to make a bit of extra profit on finished items without driving people nuts looking for that one last thing they need to finish a craft, or grab a few stacks of arrows or food or whatever.

It would also cut down on ward clutter since people wouldn't feel the need to have 8 different categories of items for sale at once with 7 of them wrong for the ward their retainer is in. Ever been frustrated trying to find that one oddball mat that makes the oddball repair material you need for a certain bit of gear, but nobody's selling the mat or the repair item? Sure would be nice to hit the AH, find no repair mats for sale or just one stupidly overpriced one, then quickly make a few for yourself (because the raw material WAS available) and a few extras to put up for a profitable but saner price on the AH



Now that's brilliance!!! I would love that :)
#45 Jan 14 2011 at 9:07 AM Rating: Default
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602 posts
Lexxuk wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
How do you people even think the AH is going to work?
XIV isn't XI. XIV is heavily based on crafters. Supply itself is going to undercut prices constantly if an AH is implemented. Let alone gil sellers.

The ward system is working great, and its obviously not finished. Stick to it. Its a lot more original and fun.


You're missing the other factor in that chain, demand. What is wrong with people that they consider the wards to be working brilliantly from a demand point of view? Are you all just looking at it from the viewpoint of a supply? With no demand there is no supply, with no supply there becomes a demand, how in the name of all that is holy can you judge demand of an item without a good cross reference (time of last sale, number of items sold per day etc), you cannot with the ward system.

I'm sorry, but in game economics are not something that can be thought of in such terms as "yeah, having two retainers over 3 (soon to be 4?) cities over however-many-floors-there-are is a wonderful idea!". Let's take Botany as an example, Botany pairs up with Carpentry rather well, so I take my tools and go out and log some trees, I get wood (fnar), branches, acorns, maple, beehive chips, feathers, I also stop by harvesting points and pick up flax, onions, cotton, straw, a whole plethora of items. I turn the wood into staves for CON, or into lumber, or into planks, I have two retainers out of a maximum of, let me count them, difficult... two, ok, right, still with me? I'm sure this is rather complicated so far. I decide to sell the wood on you know, the woodcutters floor, because I have a lot of that, but I also want to sell the onions, I don't need them, so I stick all the food related stuff onto my 2nd retainer and put that on the grocers ward, only I also want to sell the staves I made, but they have to go on the spellcaster ward, oh well, doesn't matter, if people want to find the staves they can come to the grocers ward......

You know the easiest way to use the retainers is? Grab as much stuff as you an and head over to the nearest store and NPC a ton of items which someone probably wants/needs, so yeah, keep kidding yourself that the retainer system is working brilliantly and deserves a chance and is better than an AH will ever be. An AH where you can have *shock* one per town allowing you to sell *shock* items in the best located town and sell *more shock* stuff in a nice orderly list where you can *even more shock* find what the **** you are looking for in the first place.


So your only issue is that you don't have enough retainers and instead of asking for either more retainers or a way to work around this you want an entire new system to be implemented that would render the other one useless. That's so very smart!

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 10:08am by MajidahSihaam
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#46 Jan 14 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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11,539 posts
MajidahSihaam wrote:
Lexxuk wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
How do you people even think the AH is going to work?
XIV isn't XI. XIV is heavily based on crafters. Supply itself is going to undercut prices constantly if an AH is implemented. Let alone gil sellers.

The ward system is working great, and its obviously not finished. Stick to it. Its a lot more original and fun.


You're missing the other factor in that chain, demand. What is wrong with people that they consider the wards to be working brilliantly from a demand point of view? Are you all just looking at it from the viewpoint of a supply? With no demand there is no supply, with no supply there becomes a demand, how in the name of all that is holy can you judge demand of an item without a good cross reference (time of last sale, number of items sold per day etc), you cannot with the ward system.

I'm sorry, but in game economics are not something that can be thought of in such terms as "yeah, having two retainers over 3 (soon to be 4?) cities over however-many-floors-there-are is a wonderful idea!". Let's take Botany as an example, Botany pairs up with Carpentry rather well, so I take my tools and go out and log some trees, I get wood (fnar), branches, acorns, maple, beehive chips, feathers, I also stop by harvesting points and pick up flax, onions, cotton, straw, a whole plethora of items. I turn the wood into staves for CON, or into lumber, or into planks, I have two retainers out of a maximum of, let me count them, difficult... two, ok, right, still with me? I'm sure this is rather complicated so far. I decide to sell the wood on you know, the woodcutters floor, because I have a lot of that, but I also want to sell the onions, I don't need them, so I stick all the food related stuff onto my 2nd retainer and put that on the grocers ward, only I also want to sell the staves I made, but they have to go on the spellcaster ward, oh well, doesn't matter, if people want to find the staves they can come to the grocers ward......

You know the easiest way to use the retainers is? Grab as much stuff as you an and head over to the nearest store and NPC a ton of items which someone probably wants/needs, so yeah, keep kidding yourself that the retainer system is working brilliantly and deserves a chance and is better than an AH will ever be. An AH where you can have *shock* one per town allowing you to sell *shock* items in the best located town and sell *more shock* stuff in a nice orderly list where you can *even more shock* find what the **** you are looking for in the first place.


So your only issue is that you don't have enough retainers and instead of asking for either more retainers or a way to work around this you want an entire new system to be implemented that would render the other one useless. That's so very smart!

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 10:08am by MajidahSihaam


How is having 10 different retainers and trying to remember which one is in which ward and which one is selling what and manually checking all 10 retainers and manually depositing items with 10 retainers across 10 wards:

1) A better idea than one interface to browse your goods for sale and retrieve money
2) A better idea in terms of the amount of server resources it would take up if EVERY player needs to have 5-10 retainers (assuming they're all free)
3) A better idea in making people pay extra money to be able to list items in the correct place (Assuming you have to pay for the extras)

If anything, forcing players to list items in the correct ward and also charging more for the extra retainers needed to do so is just a thinly veiled Microtransaction model. The worst part is, even if you did pay them extra to buy one retainer per ward, you still have to spend more time checking each one individually.

I don't get how a system that costs players more money AND causes them to do more work is a good system. It's tolerable for now until they add an AH while they focus on other things like content, but in the end, an AH is the better system.

I've made this analogy before: Saying that we shouldn't have an AH because then RMT will use it is like saying everyone should use a horse because criminals can use cars to flee from police. You're inconveniencing -everyone- because -some people- -might- use the system in illicit ways.

As for undercutting... people talk about these great deals you can find because there is no fixed price and sometimes you find an item really cheap. Doesn't anyone realize that the person would sell it higher if they knew it was worth more, and the only reason it is cheap is because they don't know what it's worth? Do you really expect every player to manually check every ward for items to see what something is worth before selling it? And no, I don't care about other websites that you can go to to research it or anything: The game should be able to provide you with all the information you need to make an informed decision on what an item is worth and how much you want to sell it for. You shouldn't have to just guess at the price, and you certainly shouldn't be forced to leave the game every time you want to know what some item that just dropped is worth.

Or is that what people really want... You honestly like a market system that allows people who are willing to waste extra time on researching pricing to ***** over people who don't have the time to do so? Because that's what these "great deals" are; they're buyers who know what an item is worth ******** over a seller who didn't.

If the game is supposed to be so "casual friendly"; why is the -basic system of buying and selling items- one that is designed in such a way as to:

1) Require way more time and effort to process one single transaction than it should
2) ***** over anyone who isn't able to spend a bunch of time researching what individual items are worth when they could be crafting or killing instead?

I mean, I get that MMORPGs should have time sinks. Buying and selling items should not be one of them.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 10:55am by Mikhalia
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#47 Jan 14 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Two AH threads at once, impressive...
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#48 Jan 14 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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its funny that people hated what they thought to be RMT manipulation of the FFXI AH, yet they welcome retainer manipulation of the market wards with open arms.
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#49 Jan 14 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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451 posts
The whole RMT controlling the economy through AH falls on deaf ears over here. I have played enough MMO's to realize that these people worried about RMT are mainly FFXI players, because that is the only game I played where it was a huge issue.

Don't get me wrong every MMO I have played for any length of time had RMT. But FFXI had the worst problem as far as the ingame economy went. All the other MMO's did a really good job at suppressing the issue.

On a side note, in FFXI the players did a fine job ******** the economy by themselves, remember the early days of douping earth staves....Not naming names...........But RMT became a scapegoat.
















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Edited, Jan 14th 2011 12:34pm by KristoFurwalken
#50 Jan 14 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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"RMT" is to FFXIV as "Communists" were to Reagan's America. The problem is not nearly as widespread or severe as some would scare you into thinking it is.
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#51 Jan 14 2011 at 1:12 PM Rating: Default
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Yes, SE put in an AH so crafters can start buying all their mats to powerlevel their crafts in one convienient menu.
And players and rmt alike can start monopolizing the system with one click.
Forget about the players who like roleplaying or immersion or see an economy as more a distraction.
We don't care if you envisioned DoL or DoH as more than a distraction from killing monsters with the other classes.
While your at it, just remove all your travel restrictions from the game too. Who cares if it makes your game world one big instance.
/sarcasm off

Most who support other options besides an AH are not saying the systems are more time efficient than an AH. They just enjoy what is given, but would still like to see even more streamlining. I wish to see original content as opposed to mainstream copycat. An economy is content to me, but the AH is not the only solution.
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