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Poll: Borrowing ideasFollow

#1 Jan 13 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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With the recent discussions about ideas that could be taken from other games and be incorporated into FFXIV, I figured I'd make a poll, as I am wont to do, to gauge the general consensus about it.

Which of these most closely resembles how you feel about FFXIV taking ideas from other MMORPGs?
No amount of new ideas can save the game; it is doomed.:6 (4.2%)
If they can't get it done without borrowing concepts from another game, I don't want to play.:2 (1.4%)
I'd be okay if they took a couple ideas from FFXI, but no other game.:11 (7.6%)
Just make FFXI-2 and call it a day.:21 (14.6%)
There are a couple ideas in other games that I think could benefit XIV, but I would only want to pick and choose.:26 (18.1%)
I don't care how many ideas they take from other games, just so long as they implement it in a way that it's obvious they aren't just copying it.:47 (32.6%)
I think there are a lot of ideas from other games that XIV -needs- to implement in order to improve.:21 (14.6%)
I really don't care if they copy and paste every last aspect from other games on the market. I'm fine with that.:10 (6.9%)
Total:144
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#2 Jan 13 2011 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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I don't care how many ideas they take from other games, just so long as they implement it in a way that it's obvious they aren't just copying it.

I picked that one, however...

I want them not only to copy but improve on other's ideas, as well as their own.

What was the saying, "Good artists copy, Great artists steal." ?
#3 Jan 13 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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I want to see them improve their own ideas.
#4 Jan 13 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I chose just make it FFXI-2 and call it a day lol. Honestly, as much as people want to criticize it for whatever reason (Too hard, they don't hand you gear etc etc) it did far too much right in terms of MMORPGs than it did wrong.
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#5 Jan 13 2011 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I don't care how many ideas they take from other games, just so long as they implement it in a way that it's obvious they aren't just copying it.


I picked this one. I would also - as I said in the other thread - like it if people made suggestions by talking about FFXIV and how they see the concept working or being used in FFXIV - rather than about how much they like another game.

I know it won't happen, but one can dream.
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#6 Jan 13 2011 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Off-topic: @Theonehio - pregrats on 10k.
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#7 Jan 13 2011 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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"I don't care how many ideas they take from other games, just so long as they implement it in a way that it's obvious they aren't just copying it."

Yeah, I had to go with this as well. But more because I think there's a considerable amount of room to expand and improve on the game features on the market. I would honestly like to see what the [new]SE Dev team can come up with.

As it stands currently, for me, the most exciting thing about this game is what they intend to do with all this potential they have lying about in this world they created.

Edit: Special characters are useful. Who knew?

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 7:08pm by Wintersage
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#8 Jan 13 2011 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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I went with "There are a couple ideas in other games that I think could benefit XIV, but I would only want to pick and choose."

Not every idea is going to particularly mesh well with FFXIV regardless of how you retool it. However, I believe there's many features, particularly from A Certain Magical Gamedex, that would be of great benefit to the game.

1) Instances. Yes, I'm well aware that the proponents of an open world don't like instances, but you have to understand that instances solved way more problems than they created when games started to make use of them. I mean, take FFXI, for instance (;P), and imagine that all the HNMs were instance monsters that you could form an alliance and fight once a day (or once a week, or once a month; whatever their timers). You'd eliminate several problems in hunting these mobs, including the 'Voke bots, the JP ping advantage, and the spawn timer (no more getting up at 5am to camp a boss for 3 hours, or having to cyber someone in order to get last kill time). Sadly, yes, the world becomes less open and you lose a bit of competition (which can be made up for in other ways, such as world firsts and the like); however, I consider both points acceptable losses considering the alternative.

Instances also allow for their own stories to play out. Consider this: you get a group, and you go to a ruins instance, which is being researched by a Lalafel. When you arrive, you see him trying to figure out how to open a door, when two stone guardians come to life and try to attack him. Your group, luckily, is there to protect him while he tries to open the door. He succeeds, so you retreat into the next room, the guardians in pursuit.

You come across another door that the researcher starts trying to open. The guardians are still coming at you, so you try and focus one of them down. You get one down just as the door slides open. The remaining guardian contorts itself into a cat-like stance, and resumes chasing you at a brisk pace.

You come across a final door, which the researcher hastens to unlock. The cat guardian is much stronger than it was before, and you're not sure if your group can handle it. However, you notice that there are strange conduits on the floor, flowing with arcane energy. You also see some nearby switches. Thinking on your feet, your group positions the guardian near a conduit, and one of you throws one of the switches. The conduit bursts with arcane energy, severely damaging and weakening the guardian. You move it to a 2nd conduit and repeat the process, weakening the guardian enough to finish it off.

Unfortunately, triggering those conduits has cut off power to the rest of the ruins, make it impossible to open the door and continue onward. The researcher suggests that you explore elsewhere in the ruins to try and figure out how to bring power back, while he tries to figure out a way past the door.

Instances don't have to be just whack-a-mole lootfests; they can just as easily be gateways to adventure.

2) Dungeon/Group Finder. This is one of the best tools that's ever come to WoW. It's primary advantage is automating the group formation process so that you don't have to drop everything you're doing for the next 30 minutes to an hour just to find a group to do stuff with, which largely depends on whether or not you can find a tank AND a healer in a short amount of time before you find your DPS. The tool makes you choose which roles you would be willing to fulfill (tank, heal, DPS), and assigns one of those roles to you once it finds enough people. It does take away the social aspect of talking to people to form said group, so if that's something you enjoy about making groups, you would probably want to avoid use of the tool. Your groups have a strong tendency to suck either way though; that's just how life is sometimes.

3) Quests. Yes, they can be interesting. Yes, they can be challenging. They can most certainly be fun. They don't have to be bland kill or collection quests, either; many of the best quests in WoW are cleverly disguised versions of generic quest archetypes, but you'd hardly notice because you're too busy having fun throwing bear cubs onto trampolines, rolling over gnomes with a giant ball of fire, or challenging Deathwing to a knife fight. There's no reason that FFXIV can't have it's own memorable quests like that, though they probably won't be nearly as silly. These quests could perhaps be used to lead up to instances such as the one I described above, with their conclusions being at the end of the instance, where an epic boss fight awaits.

Those are my big three. I'm a bit too tired to go on, though I'll probably add more later.
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#9 Jan 13 2011 at 7:05 PM Rating: Default
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Quanta do you have your flame shield on ? if not do so XD!
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#10 Jan 13 2011 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Instances. Yes, I'm well aware that the proponents of an open world don't like instances, but you have to understand that instances solved way more problems than they created when games started to make use of them.


Your examples are kind of bad considering XIV already solves the problems of open world system with it's method of phasing.

However, instances are great in some situations, and they shouldn't be completely avoided. However, as we are playing an MMORPG retaining the open world feel should not be a secondary goal, especially with sufficient systems to avoid it's problems.

Quote:
Dungeon/Group Finder. This is one of the best tools that's ever come to WoW.


Only works when the content is easy enough for PUG's to tackle. I don't think there was any content in XI in which you wouldn't have wanted to choose who you are taking with you, and not from some elitist standpoint either. WoW's DF is already running into problems in Cataclysm because the content is much harder than before, making it a less useful system.

One thing to remember also is what this kind of system does to the community of any given "world". You only meet people you are possibly never going to meet again. Also, this system reminds me of online RPG's such as PSO's systems which work there but again, make the game less of an MMORPG and more of an instance based hub game.

Quote:
There's no reason that FFXIV can't have it's own memorable quests like that, though they probably won't be nearly as silly.


Not down the road, no, but the obvious difference between Blizz and SE is that Blizz can focus solely on content (like the XI team). XIV team is being pulled to 100 different directions at once, so even if they have all it takes to create similar content, they have too many other things to take care of at the same time.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#11 Jan 13 2011 at 7:41 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Your examples are kind of bad considering XIV already solves the problems of open world system with it's method of phasing.


Perhaps, though I think it would look kind of weird to see, for instance, 5 copies of Faf/Nid in the same general area that only the instigating players could attack.

Quote:
However, instances are great in some situations, and they shouldn't be completely avoided. However, as we are playing an MMORPG retaining the open world feel should not be a secondary goal, especially with sufficient systems to avoid it's problems.


Sure thing. I think the main use of instances is in the creation of fights with special mechanics that would be difficult to implement in an open world where you could have a dozen groups trying to do the same fight.

Quote:
Only works when the content is easy enough for PUG's to tackle. I don't think there was any content in XI in which you wouldn't have wanted to choose who you are taking with you, and not from some elitist standpoint either. WoW's DF is already running into problems in Cataclysm because the content is much harder than before, making it a less useful system.


Perhaps, but I don't think that's a fault of the tool so much as a fault of the players being unable to adapt to the changes in the game's encounters. Is it really so hard to not stand in the fire, for instance? A lot of people seem to think so.

FFXI, I would argue, needed it mostly for the level grind; most missions would be too difficult to properly PUG, though that's only because even trash mobs were overtuned to the point that you didn't really want to deal with them unless it was absolutely necessary.

Quote:
One thing to remember also is what this kind of system does to the community of any given "world". You only meet people you are possibly never going to meet again. Also, this system reminds me of online RPG's such as PSO's systems which work there but again, make the game less of an MMORPG and more of an instance based hub game.


That's certainly a concern, but what's the alternative? There are other things I could be doing in a game than standing in town trying desperately to form a group that won't fall apart before we've found a tank and a healer. People only have so much patience.

Quote:
Not down the road, no, but the obvious difference between Blizz and SE is that Blizz can focus solely on content (like the XI team). XIV team is being pulled to 100 different directions at once, so even if they have all it takes to create similar content, they have too many other things to take care of at the same time.


That's the rub, though; you need both content and form in order to have a worthwhile design. FFXIV lacks considerably in both, so they really have no choice but to focus on both things at once.
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#12 Jan 13 2011 at 7:41 PM Rating: Good
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I'd have voted for "There are certain missing fundamentals which avoid unnecessary hassles and have naturally evolved into games for good reasons. Implementing these fundamentals still leaves infinite room for a creative and unique gaming experience."

There's no reason they should end up with FFXI-2 or FFWow. They have a good foundation but seem to have underestimated how many times one can enjoy the same leve over and over. I hope they add lots of quality content, tweak the current system, add some convenience fundamentals. Even something like an auction house does not need to be cookie cutter and retainers can still play an integral role, even more integral than now.
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#13 Jan 13 2011 at 7:58 PM Rating: Default
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Perhaps, though I think it would look kind of weird to see, for instance, 5 copies of Faf/Nid in the same general area that only the instigating players could attack.


Maybe slightly change the pallette and make the lore in a way that it would support multiple monsters of the same origin? For situations such as this. "Arenas" being instanced wouldn't be a bad idea though, like BCNM style places. These places could also make use of the special mechanics you mentioned.

Quote:
FFXI, I would argue, needed it mostly for the level grind


Definitely. In this game, is there such a need for it however? The game is flexible enough as-is, which is the alternative. Don't make the mechanics so strict, and we'll be fine. We are not stuck with only one tank class or only one healer class, and even if this means some homogenization has to happen, the alternative wouldn't be much of an improvement as far as headaches go at least.

Quote:
That's the rub, though; you need both content and form in order to have a worthwhile design. FFXIV lacks considerably in both, so they really have no choice but to focus on both things at once.


Which makes it even more important to ask: what kind of content should they focus on? One time quests, while they can be complex and interesting, are quite ineffective as far as the development effort vs. time it takes for players to clear it goes.

Expanding the guildleve system would have a more lasting appeal as far as quests go, but for some reason players don't think of it as a high priority. Still, I think lasting yet fun content would be more beneficial until the team can really pump out content instead of changing fundamental gameplay aspects.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 5:00am by Hyanmen
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#14 Jan 13 2011 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Which makes it even more important to ask: what kind of content should they focus on? One time quests, while they can be complex and interesting, are quite ineffective as far as the development effort vs. time it takes for players to clear it goes.

Expanding the guildleve system would have a more lasting appeal as far as quests go, but for some reason players don't think of it as a high priority. Still, I think lasting yet fun content would be more beneficial until the team can really pump out content instead of changing fundamental gameplay aspects.


I think when people are talking about content, they are talking specifically about storyline quests (whether one-time only as you suggest) or quest-lines involving mini-storylines. While it may very well be as you say not worth the "development effort vs. time"

Can't count the number of times I've seen people post on here that they'd love to have an actual reason to talk to the npcs, and get some of the background stories behind why things are the way they are in Eorzea.

Granted, I think the game needs quite a bit more along the lines of things to do with friends/lsmates/parties, and while I would love to see the large and mostly empty places of the world (Which people have pointed out tends to all look rather similar in any given zone) filled with unique structures buildings and whatnot....

****. That was a long sentence. I need to stop playing that drinking game. >.<

tldr: Give me mah side-story quests with unique gear/skills and amusing dialog.
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#15 Jan 13 2011 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Can't count the number of times I've seen people post on here that they'd love to have an actual reason to talk to the npcs, and get some of the background stories behind why things are the way they are in Eorzea.


I think more than that, people just want things to do and aim towards.

There's nothing wrong with one time quests, but at this point..

Quote:
I think the game needs quite a bit more along the lines of things to do with friends/lsmates/parties


One time quests just don't have that much lasting appeal in the long run.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 5:22am by Hyanmen
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#16 Jan 13 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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There are a couple ideas in other games that I think could benefit XIV, but I would only want to pick and choose.


Is what I voted for. I was torn between it and only take some aspects of FFXI for a while. There are some ideas that could be picked up from other mmo's though. However, I personally don't think it needs to be a complete copy pasted game, taking more ideas from other games than it has of its own. Once again I personally think what they have can work, there just needs to be some substantial meat to the bare bones game we currently have.
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#17 Jan 13 2011 at 8:38 PM Rating: Good
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I think your sig says it best. I'm getting a bit tired of hearing "Go back to WoW". I did, a lot. I'm tired of it.
Saying something along the lines of "The combat is a bit delayed, they should streamline it." does not warrant my return to a game I've obviously grown bored with. I think people confuse dumbed down with streamlined.
Having something flow and make sense does not make it easy or cater to stupid people. Boss fights should be long and hard, not navigating menus or having to run 2 computers/alt tab just to craft something. Same with the Market Wards. I hear "They work fine" all the time. I don't want fine, I want great. I don't care if they work o.k., I want an auction house. It works better. It is a streamlined version of market wards. Yeah? Has nothing to do with World of Warcraft.

Ideas I want borrowed:

#AlphaOMegaZero9,0001. Official Forums where we can post this sh*t and have someone who matters read it.

#1. Auction House
#2. Mounts, chocobos, whatever. No renting, I want my own that I can call whenever I want.
#3. Teleports like FFXI. No more saving anima for days on end.
#4. Skillchains, cool ones.

#5. Level requirements for equipment, not this strange system. People are using R40 gear on a R15, and I have to group with them. Stop.

#5. AoE selection circles, not guessing where it's going to hit.
#6. Smooth quick transition from in and out of combat, not "Hold on let me get my weapon out. Give me a sec."
#7. Open World quests (That give xp, not a copper ingot), leave guildleves too if people like them.
#8. At least as many areas as FFXI RoZ and more obviously ranked locations.

#9. Some way around this 2 foot ledge barrier. Enough with it, it's 2011 now. If we can't have jump, give us some kind of action button. I'm tired of getting stuck on something on my fireball casting conjurer that I could jump over/up all day in real life as a standard human.

#10. More variety of enemies. Where are the low level beastmen and NMs? I want Bubbling Bernie, Leaping Lizzy, Spiny Spipy, whatever. Adding them would have been the single greatest throw back to FFXI and everyone in the community would have laughed,rejoiced, and made Youtube videos. This dev team has downs for not thinking of things like that imo.

#11. Some kind of quest like Lu Shang's? These little things are easy and would really get the nostalgia going, which is what I think could save this game.

#12. Group Missions like FFXI had. Those were really cool and getting to ride the airship was a great reward.

I could think of a hundred other things they could have borrowed from other games, but most is from FFXI. It was a great game, and contrary to what some may think on this server; my favorite MMO of all time. I swear to God, if SE hired 10 people from these forums to sit down for a week and give them ideas to implement; they'd have doubled their subscriptions by now. It's absolutely ridiculous. The crazy thing is, we love FF so much and want so bad for it to work, we would do it for FREE! FFXI + A few advances in MMO tech that have come out in the past 3 or 4 years and this would have been the best MMO ever developed. It's @#%^ing sad, and it's right under their noses.






Edited, Jan 13th 2011 6:42pm by GuardianFaith
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#18 Jan 13 2011 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
#AlphaOMegaZero9,0001. Official Forums where we can post this sh*t and have someone who matters read it.


I'm starting to really get scared about the poll results tomorrow...
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#19 Jan 13 2011 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
#AlphaOMegaZero9,0001. Official Forums where we can post this sh*t and have someone who matters read it.


I'm starting to really get scared about the poll results tomorrow...


Don't worry, I chose more content. An official forum could be done for free by a random intern in school for web design at a local college near their headquarters. There is no excuse for them not to have one.
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#20 Jan 13 2011 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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An official forum could be done for free by a random intern in school for web design at a local college near their headquarters


I sincerely doubt it.
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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#21 Jan 13 2011 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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This poll is missing an option for 'SE has already copied ideas from other games, but the implementation is poor'.

There are already quite a few borrowed ideas that have probably been masked so poorly that people just don't realize that they've seen it before because it doesn't work nearly as well.
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#22 Jan 13 2011 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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There are already quite a few borrowed ideas that have probably been masked so poorly that people just don't realize that they've seen it before because it doesn't work nearly as well.


That would be even more of a reason to figure out that the features have been borrowed.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#23 Jan 13 2011 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
An official forum could be done for free by a random intern in school for web design at a local college near their headquarters


I sincerely doubt it.


I know some people who would pay to wash SE's balls.
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#24 Jan 13 2011 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quanta wrote:

3) Quests. Yes, they can be interesting. Yes, they can be challenging. They can most certainly be fun. They don't have to be bland kill or collection quests, either; many of the best quests in WoW are cleverly disguised versions of generic quest archetypes, but you'd hardly notice because you're too busy having fun throwing bear cubs onto trampolines, rolling over gnomes with a giant ball of fire, or challenging Deathwing to a knife fight. There's no reason that FFXIV can't have it's own memorable quests like that, though they probably won't be nearly as silly. These quests could perhaps be used to lead up to instances such as the one I described above, with their conclusions being at the end of the instance, where an epic boss fight awaits.

This is what i want in the game. Just random (or not random but story or progression based) side quests. I mean, i guess im weird in that i generally dont like to grind, but i do when some flavor text is added. Sure, most quests are like "Kill cows to get 5 leathers for my dress" or "kill 6 ladybugs eating my crops" where they are just grind fests playing charade, but i feel like its okay if you lie to me. Just hide it behind story or lore or something, and ill grind (quest) till im blue in the face and be happy for doing it, but i better get some bonus exp or at least some kind of trinket when i turn in the quest.

And doing what wow (drink) did is really cool. I mean, they have quests which are "Kill 25 rats, bring me 8 rat tails", but then they have funny unique quests. I've never played it before, but i've seen some of the cooler quests that wow (drink) has, like the one that plays like Katamari damacy (the gnome roll that Quanta mentioned), and another that alludes to plants vs zombies. Disguised lore/story driven grind quest and unique fun quests are some things i would like to see. They may say they dont want to compete with other mmo's like wow or Tor (If i die of alcohol poisoning Mik, im haunting you), but surely they can learn what others like about them and implement similar ideas (while also coming up with original content) cant they?
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#25 Jan 13 2011 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I know some people who would pay to wash SE's balls.


Someone who has the required expertise to pull it off while passing their QA tests most likely wouldn't.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#26 Jan 13 2011 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I really want to see them fix the game without having to borrow from other games unless they really have to. The last thing that we need is for the game to have a "bounce back" that only results in a second round of reviews that read "FFXIV has attempted to come back from the grave but falls short as it takes too many gameplay ideas from X MMO and tries to mask them by mixing in some from Y MMO." I don't want to see this game that I still think has much potential turn into what Rift is.

What happened to the whole Magitek thing that I thought they were going with again by the way? That could be a huge.
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#27 Jan 13 2011 at 10:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Multidude wrote:
I really want to see them fix the game without having to borrow from other games unless they really have to. The last thing that we need is for the game to have a "bounce back" that only results in a second round of reviews that read "FFXIV has attempted to come back from the grave but falls short as it takes too many gameplay ideas from X MMO and tries to mask them by mixing in some from Y MMO." I don't want to see this game that I still think has much potential turn into what Rift is.

What happened to the whole Magitek thing that I thought they were going with again by the way? That could be a huge.


I have this feeling that FFXIV -will- bounce back, and people will -still- ***** about the road they took to get there. If a reviewer wants to whine that they took ideas from other games, then let them. The point has been made that every MMORPG that has come out in the past 5 years, yes... even "that game" has taken ideas from other games. All the way back to Gygax, Tolkien, and Lovecraft, people have been taking ideas from other people. The question is: For what they -do- take, are they going to improve upon it, change it to make it their own, just leave it as-is, or worst of all, implement something that tries but isn't as good?

So far, the bulk of the poll replies are leaning towards the same notion; that it's okay for SE to take some ideas from other games, just so long as the ideas are properly integrated and they fit the feel of the game.

So if some reviewer wants to claim that FFXIV is taking ideas from another game, you tell me what game they're taking ideas from and I'll tell you what ideas -that- game had that were stolen from elsewhere. :)
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#28 Jan 13 2011 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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I put "I think there are a lot of ideas from other games that XIV -needs- to implement in order to improve." Mainly because I was thinking of what it would take for this game to recover, and not what I'd like it to be.
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#29 Jan 13 2011 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
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I dont play every mmorpg out there in the market, wtf do I care if the idea has already been done as long as it works?
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#30 Jan 15 2011 at 2:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I think taking ideas from other games is what got them in the current predicament the game is in the first place. I remember an interview before the game came out about how the director pretty much just listed off features from other games and had the devs put them in game. Without thinking about how they'd all work together. I'll try to find the link and post it up.
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#31 Jan 15 2011 at 3:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Wintersage wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Which makes it even more important to ask: what kind of content should they focus on? One time quests, while they can be complex and interesting, are quite ineffective as far as the development effort vs. time it takes for players to clear it goes.

Expanding the guildleve system would have a more lasting appeal as far as quests go, but for some reason players don't think of it as a high priority. Still, I think lasting yet fun content would be more beneficial until the team can really pump out content instead of changing fundamental gameplay aspects.


I think when people are talking about content, they are talking specifically about storyline quests (whether one-time only as you suggest) or quest-lines involving mini-storylines. While it may very well be as you say not worth the "development effort vs. time"


The generic term "content" when used in reference to MMOs could be best defined as "those activities with which you occupy your time." Doesn't have to have anything to do with story. And it's why FFXIV is so frequently blasted for having "no" content (which isn't true, of course, but by the standards of some it's not far off the mark).

Personally, I don't care where the concept comes from. If it's fun, perfect. That's all it needs to be.
#32 Jan 15 2011 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Wintersage wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Which makes it even more important to ask: what kind of content should they focus on? One time quests, while they can be complex and interesting, are quite ineffective as far as the development effort vs. time it takes for players to clear it goes.

Expanding the guildleve system would have a more lasting appeal as far as quests go, but for some reason players don't think of it as a high priority. Still, I think lasting yet fun content would be more beneficial until the team can really pump out content instead of changing fundamental gameplay aspects.


I think when people are talking about content, they are talking specifically about storyline quests (whether one-time only as you suggest) or quest-lines involving mini-storylines. While it may very well be as you say not worth the "development effort vs. time"


The generic term "content" when used in reference to MMOs could be best defined as "those activities with which you occupy your time." Doesn't have to have anything to do with story. And it's why FFXIV is so frequently blasted for having "no" content (which isn't true, of course, but by the standards of some it's not far off the mark).

Personally, I don't care where the concept comes from. If it's fun, perfect. That's all it needs to be.


It seems to me, that however they wrap it up and present it to the players, Players want more immersion/involvement with the world/missions. Beautiful cutscenes are fine, I'd like to have a more participatory role other than just running somewhere to see another CS.

Aurelius hit the mark. Make it fun. If its not my type of fun that is fine. Just do something.
#33 Jan 15 2011 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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RO is a pretty fun grinder with virtually no content outside of grinding. It's so much of a grinder that after you get to level cap the FIRST time, your character is "reborn" and starts at level 1 again with higher stats and you start the grind all over.

I stopped playing for a reason, and that reason was the same reason I'm taking a break from XIV. Grinding is not content. Leves are not content.
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#34 Jan 15 2011 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
RO is a pretty fun grinder with virtually no content outside of grinding. It's so much of a grinder that after you get to level cap the FIRST time, your character is "reborn" and starts at level 1 again with higher stats and you start the grind all over.

I stopped playing for a reason, and that reason was the same reason I'm taking a break from XIV. Grinding is not content. Leves are not content.


To be fair, MVP hunting was sort of fun "content" and was the main focus of the game until WoE was introduced, at which point the focus of the game was "Take the enemy castles every Wednesday, THEN go MVP hunting in your own private dungeons."

There were also hats. Lots and lots of hats.
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#35 Jan 15 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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Quanta wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
RO is a pretty fun grinder with virtually no content outside of grinding. It's so much of a grinder that after you get to level cap the FIRST time, your character is "reborn" and starts at level 1 again with higher stats and you start the grind all over.

I stopped playing for a reason, and that reason was the same reason I'm taking a break from XIV. Grinding is not content. Leves are not content.


To be fair, MVP hunting was sort of fun "content" and was the main focus of the game until WoE was introduced, at which point the focus of the game was "Take the enemy castles every Wednesday, THEN go MVP hunting in your own private dungeons."

There were also hats. Lots and lots of hats.


Yeah, I did a couple low level MVPs, but I never joined a serious MVP group for the higher level ones.

As for the hats... I had forgotten all about that.
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#36 Jan 15 2011 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
I don't care how many ideas they take from other games, just so long as they implement it in a way that it's obvious they aren't just copying it.:


Everyone takes ideas from all walks of life from games to movies and everything in between.I would have absolutely no problem FFXIV drawing inspiration from another game tweaking an idea for the improvement of this game.

P.S. Love your polls Mik hopefully you keep em coming.
#37 Jan 15 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I think you gave too many options for the survey cuz I'm kind of in between a couple choices.

On one hand FFXI-2 would be good enough for me, but I'm also cool with them pulling ideas from a bunch of games.
This is 2011, and over the last decade lots of brilliant ideas went into the R&D of MMO development, and SE shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel but rather pull in the stuff everyone loves. Well, at least majority population.

Instances have solved a lot of problems when used responsibly for example. Good PVP (not sandbox total free for all PVP, every game that has that has no players after a few months) has also been fun. The quest givers with the ! and ? symbols may be everywhere but ... its a tried and true method, and RPGs had it long before blizzard. Baldurs Gate anyone?



Definitely think ideas -need- to be taken from 11 though.
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#38 Jan 15 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Eadieni wrote:
Definitely think ideas -need- to be taken from 11 though.


I'd like to see skillchains make a reappearance. It was awesome having to coordinate your ability execution for a brief moment in order to deal some extra damage to a mob. Battle Regimens, from what I saw, weren't nearly the same thing, and seemed more difficult in general to pull off.

Quote:
Instances have solved a lot of problems when used responsibly for example. Good PVP (not sandbox total free for all PVP, every game that has that has no players after a few months) has also been fun. The quest givers with the ! and ? symbols may be everywhere but ... its a tried and true method, and RPGs had it long before blizzard. Baldurs Gate anyone?


I've heard nothing but good things about UO's sandbox PvP environment, though I suspect that it was a total fluke, and Trammel was bound to happen anyways as more jerks started playing the game and being pricks.

Anyways, they don't need to use ! and ? to denote who has quests or who is handling turn-ins, or even the same colours for that matter. They could put a halo effect around the NPC denoting "Hey! This guy's important! Might want to talk to him!"

I don't think PvP would work in this game so long as you have to ready yourself for action. You're likely to get blown up in the time it takes your character to react to what's going on.

Quote:
On one hand FFXI-2 would be good enough for me, but I'm also cool with them pulling ideas from a bunch of games.
This is 2011, and over the last decade lots of brilliant ideas went into the R&D of MMO development, and SE shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel but rather pull in the stuff everyone loves. Well, at least majority population.


The only thing that really stopped me from enjoying FFXI was grouping up for leveling; a dungeon finder-esque utility would have softened the blow considerably (no more having to stand around for hours in a zone just to find a group). However, being able to solo at least SOME mobs effectively, regardless of class, would have helped considerably as well.

Also, I always got the impression that most mobs were just part of the scenery, which is why silent oils and prism powders were in such widespread use. Having to actually kill **** other than at your camp would have been most welcome.
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WoW - Andorhal
Darkkiwi - 85 Gnome Unholy Death Knight - <Flaming Bunnies>
Lightkiwi - 72 Gnome Disc Priest - <Flaming Bunnies>
Kwanita - 82 Gnome Frost Mage - <Flaming Bunnies>
Maglyn - 81 Gnome Protection Warrior - <Flaming Bunnies>


Don't play that game anymore. :P
#39 Jan 15 2011 at 7:17 PM Rating: Default
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the first thing they need to kill off is the atherite, And implement NPC's quests into the game. don't know who's grand idea it was to minimize interaction with scripted beings, and maximize interaction with a shiny rock that's got no soul and spins clockwise. at this point I'd be happy if the damned stone spoke.

as it stands the game Hasn't got any life NPC interaction is very limited,PC interaction is also limited unless, you belong in an LS that is active and party oriented.

put some life in there first. everything else can wait.
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