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Idea for job system additionFollow

#1 Jan 14 2011 at 6:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I was thinking last night about the game a little, and while i still play and really don't have too many complaints besides lack of content and community right now. What if there was some kind of FFT-like addition to job system, where say you could spend guild points, or SP from job A to use the weapon or sub-weapon of Job A on Job B, so get "equip shield" from gladiator, and use it on MAR to make more of a tank if needed. I just think this could allow you to specialize each job a little more. Doing this would give you maybe 75-80% of the skills proc rate or dmg as on the main job as keep certain jobs still better than simply leveling it just to get an "equip" trait. yay/nay?
#2 Jan 14 2011 at 6:56 AM Rating: Decent
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In my opinion, the way to improve the classes and the comunity at large would be to introduce more classes.

These classes should be specialized (non-generic) classes with (most) abilities restricted to the class it self.

This would make people happy to have the long standing classic FF classes and hopefully introduce some uniqueness to DoW/M classes that players are missing at the moment.
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#3 Jan 14 2011 at 7:04 AM Rating: Default
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Hugus wrote:
In my opinion, the way to improve the classes and the comunity at large would be to introduce more classes.

These classes should be specialized (non-generic) classes with (most) abilities restricted to the class it self.

This would make people happy to have the long standing classic FF classes and hopefully introduce some uniqueness to DoW/M classes that players are missing at the moment.


I think even with the jobs we have now if they added in more abilitys that were just for those jobs and made them pretty different from each other that people would be happier. I know when i switch between MRD and LNC right now, it feels like mostly the same job with a different weapon. More distinct and class specific skills would do a huge amount of good. I dont mind the shared skills system, but when you can share pretty much everything with most just giving a slightly longer timer, you feel more like your playing a weapon and not a class or role.

More classes are nice too.
#4 Jan 14 2011 at 7:29 AM Rating: Decent
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The idea that I had was that the current classes and their skill would end up being considered as the filler skills.

New classes would have specific abilities, WS and such which you could then use in between the abilities from the initial classes.

It might take some time to be implemented but I don't expect at that that the current DoW/M will be the only ones.
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#5 Jan 14 2011 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
Rate up, I like some of this idea! Really, why is a Marauder, a pirate, using a G.Axe anyway?

"Arrr! Gimme all yer loot or taste the cold steel of me axe in your skull ye land-lubber!"

Allow us to equip weapons spanning across classes instead but at a penalty such as they're not as useful as the class they're designed for. Change it so maybe a special "crest" is worn instead that determines your class instead of your weapon. Maurader would be a great choice for my character Mihana. But as an RPer I can't see her lugging around a monstrous axe like that so I don't use it in-character. And at the same time let me take my dang pan and HIT enemies with it! Why am I throwing rocks when I can make enemies eat the cold teflon surface of justice with one powerful stroke? *KER-PANG!*
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#6 Jan 14 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
In my opinion, the way to improve the classes and the comunity at large would be to introduce more classes.

These classes should be specialized (non-generic) classes with (most) abilities restricted to the class it self.

This would make people happy to have the long standing classic FF classes and hopefully introduce some uniqueness to DoW/M classes that players are missing at the moment.


I like this idea better.

The jobs we have now are the basic jobs. Future additions should be considered and treated as Advanced jobs. Give them much more specific roles.
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#7 Jan 14 2011 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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For a marauder to equip a shield you'd need mouth-wielding proficiency in order to do it while holding your two handed axe.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 10:53am by MajidahSihaam
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#8 Jan 14 2011 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
Rate up, I like some of this idea! Really, why is a Marauder, a pirate, using a G.Axe anyway?

"Arrr! Gimme all yer loot or taste the cold steel of me axe in your skull ye land-lubber!"

Allow us to equip weapons spanning across classes instead but at a penalty such as they're not as useful as the class they're designed for. Change it so maybe a special "crest" is worn instead that determines your class instead of your weapon. Maurader would be a great choice for my character Mihana. But as an RPer I can't see her lugging around a monstrous axe like that so I don't use it in-character. And at the same time let me take my dang pan and HIT enemies with it! Why am I throwing rocks when I can make enemies eat the cold teflon surface of justice with one powerful stroke? *KER-PANG!*


I like this idea, THM using a sword a la RDM :) There should be a penalty based off of that weapons primary job. So if i have GLD the same level as THM the penalty is small.
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#9 Jan 14 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
I posted this awhile back but I think the basic jobs we have now should split into different paths at R10 or R20. For example GLA would split to Gladiator, Defender and Swordsman. The path you chose would open exclusive abilities for that path, but there would also be joint abilities you would get regardless of path. This way you have your hybrid, Gladiator; your tank, Defender; and your DPS, Swordsman.
#10 Jan 14 2011 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
Hugus wrote:
These classes should be specialized (non-generic) classes with (most) abilities restricted to the class it self


Think about the current offerings as the base classes of XI. The advanced jobs and such will be down the road a bit. What we have now are the basics, and it shows... rightfully so.
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#11 Jan 14 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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im fine either way i hope you guys are right about the jobs, that's how XI went too, the starting 5 jobs really similar if you break them down into mages and non mages, mages were all capable and mainly spammed heal (even blm if you cant find a whm for pt) mnk or war could tank or dd easily pre 30, thf was dd only. not until after 30 or the first expansion did we get the advanced jobs.
#12 Jan 15 2011 at 6:50 AM Rating: Default
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Hugus wrote:
These classes should be specialized (non-generic) classes with (most) abilities restricted to the class it self.


This.
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#13 Jan 15 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I kind of think they should split the Weapons from their Classes.

Like Marauder is Axe, Gladiator is Sword, etc.

This way you could add new mixups to the classes without having to make new classes to give us the weapons we want. Like, Combat Scythes, Great Swords, Katanas, Whips, etc.

They kind of already ****** up by giving Gladiators daggers, I don't know wtf they were thinking with that, kind of screwed over future classes like Assassin by doing that.

If they take the Weapon away from the class, then suddenly Marauder could use a Great Sword and Thamaturge could use a Rapier or a Whip. They could keep the same classes but change the weapon skills based on what type of weapon, like in 11. It worked great for that game why mess with success?
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#14 Jan 16 2011 at 3:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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1. What's the difference between a Thaum using a sword and a Glad using Thaum abilities?

I already play Glad like that and I call it RDM. Usually have Cure & 1 Elemental Spell (dependin gon what I'm fighting) too. That's the whole point of this current system - so you can build the job you WANT; not so you'll be bound by favored abilities.

2. Have you looked at the difference between Conj & Thaum weapons?

Cause for all intents & purposes (as far as I'm concerned) they're still staff & wand with more specific names. So lamenting the loss of daggers is kind of unwarranted. If they want to add rogues of some kind they can use any other fancy name for edged weaponry. I wouldn't worry too much about it - and if you want a THF that uses Daggers - well good news, it's called Glad with thief abilities.

Conclusion: I feel like a handful of restricted abilities would be cool maybe 1-2 per class, but I feel like everyone calling for this really misses the point the designers intended when they made this "be what you want to be" class system. I agree it's slightly awkward and I'd like to see some refinements (in time) but restricting abilities is nothing I would put at the top of my list.
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#15 Jan 16 2011 at 5:03 AM Rating: Good
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Kiru,
While I can see you like the individuality you seem to have in this system the reality is end game shells will choose the dsired set of skills, that see as most useful and then everyone will be a,b,c,. This game is so odd at the moment because we have 2 schools of thought that see a game in flux, and are basically battling to direct the path it will take. school 1) says its new it can be great give it a chance. 2) says they tried they failed now lets go back to tried and true with some changes.
I find myself between. I really wouldnt mind seeing xi's job system brought back as a whole, but then I would always wonder what could have been. Perhaps the answer is to make the advanced jobs more static, allowing far less mixing and matching while still allowing the potpory of the basic jobs. That being said OMG I want my ninja class back! Lol, peace all.

Thanks,
Big Jer
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#16 Jan 16 2011 at 5:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
While I can see you like the individuality you seem to have in this system the reality is end game shells will choose the dsired set of skills, that see as most useful and then everyone will be a,b,c,.


I like customization. Most people do. I think most people approach XIV with the mentality of other MMO (including and especially XI + WoW) where what you're saying is true.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I will say you aren't right yet. There's no clear way to tell what the original end-game intent was going to be (and now we may never know considering there is a new direction the game will head into sooner or later).

You're suggesting that an end-game fight will require a certain desired set of skills - but the beauty (as I see it) is that any job can perform that skill and then later on (perhaps a different fight) set up an entirely new series of abilities to optimize that fight.

Take what's in the game now - these silly handful of NM - and then say LSs with serious intent prioritize a well equipped Pugilist who can break Dodore's Tail (or whatever). Well, anyone can get that ability and use it on any job (though it would take work, and playing PUG to near the cap) but if you don't want to play PUG and you do want to be included in this activity (and assuming your LS requires it for you to get invited - which would be jerky but not unbelievable) you could do so.

Now imagine it's PUG only. Well, no more Archers invited to the party.

That's what makes the system great! You build your own class fundamentally. As long as SE continues to make 90+% of the abilities unrestricted - and continues to balance incapacitation throughout various jobs - and continues to build "end-game" content that is inclusive (so that any job is welcome barring they aren't completely ridiculous - like Glad with THM skills I described which is great for solo but silly for endgame) I don't really see your idea being much of an issue.

I dunno. I think this time around I may try to start my own end-game LS where my focus is having a good time and not the rampant elitist min/maxing shenanigans I see all over the MMO genre. You're -probably- right that no matter what I hope the future of XIV turns out to be there will always be (successful) groups running around with "perfect" builds being dictated to members.
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#17 Jan 16 2011 at 5:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Whenever a game has customization there will always be a best spec and class

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#18 Jan 16 2011 at 6:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Circumstantially maybe, but not definitively.

And I didn't disagree that the likely end result of [any MMO] is going to be that way.

I'd just prefer to play the class I enjoy playing. For example, I wouldn't bother playing Conjurer without Siphon MP (Thaum) ability. Once I saw a Thaum use it, I thought "I must have that" and now when I see fledgling Conjurer I advise them to take the time to grind out those 20 Ranks for an almost game breaking ability for any nuker or healer.

That kind of "best build" is certainly my opinion (but well founded) and sure it may be that every MP using job anywhere uses Siphon MP but the point I was trying to make is the game has the potential to go in a direction where there will ... scratch that.

Let's take Dragoon from XI. It was originally extremely popular choice for beginners, but extremely unpopular in parties making it difficult and laughable. I'm saying in a system where any class can take the best from any other class - you can play however you like on whichever class you like. There's never (theoretically) going to be lolPUG. If you or your community feel PUG is better off using Trunksplitter II - well you can grind up a new weapon skill (otherwise known as a Class) and use it on your PUG to their hearts' content.

I think it's silly when people say things like "I wish my Thaum could use swords" because (news flash) your Thaum can weild swords. The penalty for doing so is 1) you're going to be called a Gladiator and 2) you're going to have to get Skill Points for the Gladiator class instead of Thaum. Nothing in the game prevents you from playing as a Sword-wielding Thaum (other than in name). I know because I enjoy it quite regularly.
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#19 Jan 16 2011 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirutaru wrote:
1. What's the difference between a Thaum using a sword and a Glad using Thaum abilities?

I already play Glad like that and I call it RDM. Usually have Cure & 1 Elemental Spell (dependin gon what I'm fighting) too. That's the whole point of this current system - so you can build the job you WANT; not so you'll be bound by favored abilities.

2. Have you looked at the difference between Conj & Thaum weapons?

Cause for all intents & purposes (as far as I'm concerned) they're still staff & wand with more specific names. So lamenting the loss of daggers is kind of unwarranted. If they want to add rogues of some kind they can use any other fancy name for edged weaponry. I wouldn't worry too much about it - and if you want a THF that uses Daggers - well good news, it's called Glad with thief abilities.

Conclusion: I feel like a handful of restricted abilities would be cool maybe 1-2 per class, but I feel like everyone calling for this really misses the point the designers intended when they made this "be what you want to be" class system. I agree it's slightly awkward and I'd like to see some refinements (in time) but restricting abilities is nothing I would put at the top of my list.


.

Edited, Jan 16th 2011 7:58pm by northernsky

Edited, Jan 16th 2011 7:58pm by northernsky
#20 Jan 16 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kirutaru wrote:


I think it's silly when people say things like "I wish my Thaum could use swords" because (news flash) your Thaum can weild swords. The penalty for doing so is 1) you're going to be called a Gladiator and 2) you're going to have to get Skill Points for the Gladiator class instead of Thaum. Nothing in the game prevents you from playing as a Sword-wielding Thaum (other than in name). I know because I enjoy it quite regularly.


So true! I use thm skills on all of my jobs

1) because I like playing THM
2) because some of those skills are awesome (siphon MP/SAC II)
3) because I can if I want to
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#21 Jan 16 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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tyler1552 wrote:
I was thinking last night about the game a little, and while i still play and really don't have too many complaints besides lack of content and community right now. What if there was some kind of FFT-like addition to job system, where say you could spend guild points, or SP from job A to use the weapon or sub-weapon of Job A on Job B, so get "equip shield" from gladiator, and use it on MAR to make more of a tank if needed. I just think this could allow you to specialize each job a little more. Doing this would give you maybe 75-80% of the skills proc rate or dmg as on the main job as keep certain jobs still better than simply leveling it just to get an "equip" trait. yay/nay?


They already have what you are getting at, the affinity traits.

Edit: Just reread this.. Not quite sure what you are getting at, if you consider your example all the jobs would end up being more or less the same thing if you get enough guild marks.

Edited, Jan 16th 2011 9:18pm by Tankue
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