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End Game? Follow

#1 Jan 14 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey it's Bigg again more questions from Iraq!

So what's with end game? Honestly if there's not abunch of people teleporting to see who can get out to a wyrm the fatest and what not? I tried to troll through all the pages looking for this topic and didn't find it. Can anyone hook me up?


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#2 Jan 14 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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There is currently none of what one might typically consider "endgame" content based on what you're used to in XI.
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#3 Jan 14 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Default
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If you get all the classes to rank50 you get transported to a special zone.
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#4 Jan 14 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Default
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A Special Zone???? Is that like where you dont have to be around ****** players?
#5 Jan 14 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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did I say special zone, I meant the same zones as everyone else. Sorry for the confusion. Then the credits scroll and you are left with an empty feeling.
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#6 Jan 14 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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If they even touch end game material before giving me stuff to do at level 20...I may have to say a loud swear word at them.

But I did hear a rumor about a very large Black Coblyn that has to be killed in order to get materials for a hat.
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#7 Jan 14 2011 at 11:36 AM Rating: Default
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An empty feeling! YES! im so stoked about this! Cant wait to get home to play. At least it looks pretty! Any word on release dates for PS3 version? I assume they wont do any content expansion stuff til after they release for them
#8 Jan 14 2011 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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biggdluffy wrote:
I assume they wont do any content expansion stuff til after they release for them [PS3]


If they were to do that, I wouldn't expect to see many PC players remain...


Edited, Jan 14th 2011 12:54pm by boshed
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#9 Jan 14 2011 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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You were a better troll when not blatantly obvious.
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#10 Jan 14 2011 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
Get all crafts to R50 >.>
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#11 Jan 14 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Endgame? I think you're confused. FFXIV basically ends at R50. So, it's more a game end situation now than endgame.
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#12 Jan 14 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Get all classes to 50 and you get a PS3 badge.
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#13 Jan 14 2011 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
There is currently [no] .... "endgame" content.
This, sadly.
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#14 Jan 14 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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Just a thought that's been rolling around in my head for quite a bit now, but don't hate too badly.

Has there been any evidence that 50 was originally planned to be the highest rank & level available?
Really, who's to say that any 'end game' plans that have been or are currently being made aren't set to be for lets say, Rank 100?

I realize that getting to that blessed rank 50 takes a lot of time, dedication and patients but there seems to be a large amount of players that have gotten to that point in not a whole lot of time. Is it possible that SE had anticipated the dedication of it's player base early on? May-haps a level cap increase will be included with an upcoming major expansion?

I've speculated (without evidence) that maybe Rank 50 in XIV will be the adventuring equivalent to level 30 in XI where you could just kind of start doing stuff such as unlocking extra jobs and exploring areas with less of a chance of being killed immediately. In XI it took a long freeking time to properly get to end game, much longer than it has taken most XIV players to get to R50, even in the very beginning.
I'm just saying that its possible that in typical SE tradition, maybe the leveling process has only just begun and we shouldn't expect any 'end game' content until much later on in the ranks that haven't even been opened yet.

/equip body "Flame Retardant Suit"
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#15 Jan 14 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Validai wrote:
Just a thought that's been rolling around in my head for quite a bit now, but don't hate too badly.

Has there been any evidence that 50 was originally planned to be the highest rank & level available?
Really, who's to say that any 'end game' plans that have been or are currently being made aren't set to be for lets say, Rank 100?

I realize that getting to that blessed rank 50 takes a lot of time, dedication and patients but there seems to be a large amount of players that have gotten to that point in not a whole lot of time. Is it possible that SE had anticipated the dedication of it's player base early on? May-haps a level cap increase will be included with an upcoming major expansion?

I've speculated (without evidence) that maybe Rank 50 in XIV will be the adventuring equivalent to level 30 in XI where you could just kind of start doing stuff such as unlocking extra jobs and exploring areas with less of a chance of being killed immediately. In XI it took a long freeking time to properly get to end game, much longer than it has taken most XIV players to get to R50, even in the very beginning.
I'm just saying that its possible that in typical SE tradition, maybe the leveling process has only just begun and we shouldn't expect any 'end game' content until much later on in the ranks that haven't even been opened yet.

/equip body "Flame Retardant Suit"


I think this is a very high possibility. If I recall correctly, the original level cap in XI was 50 and later they added AF armor quests and cap increases up to 75 which was when "endgame content" began.

So in FFXI terms, maybe we're just level 50 and the next thing to come is AF. Maybe there's no endgame content because 50 isn't endgame.
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#16 Jan 14 2011 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Validai wrote:
Just a thought that's been rolling around in my head for quite a bit now, but don't hate too badly.

Has there been any evidence that 50 was originally planned to be the highest rank & level available?
Really, who's to say that any 'end game' plans that have been or are currently being made aren't set to be for lets say, Rank 100?

I realize that getting to that blessed rank 50 takes a lot of time, dedication and patients but there seems to be a large amount of players that have gotten to that point in not a whole lot of time. Is it possible that SE had anticipated the dedication of it's player base early on? May-haps a level cap increase will be included with an upcoming major expansion?

I've speculated (without evidence) that maybe Rank 50 in XIV will be the adventuring equivalent to level 30 in XI where you could just kind of start doing stuff such as unlocking extra jobs and exploring areas with less of a chance of being killed immediately. In XI it took a long freeking time to properly get to end game, much longer than it has taken most XIV players to get to R50, even in the very beginning.
I'm just saying that its possible that in typical SE tradition, maybe the leveling process has only just begun and we shouldn't expect any 'end game' content until much later on in the ranks that haven't even been opened yet.

/equip body "Flame Retardant Suit"


I think this is a very high possibility. If I recall correctly, the original level cap in XI was 50 and later they added AF armor quests and cap increases up to 75 which was when "endgame content" began.

So in FFXI terms, maybe we're just level 50 and the next thing to come is AF. Maybe there's no endgame content because 50 isn't endgame.


Let's stop this excuse festival right here. So what you guys are saying is, it's ok for them not to have endgame content since rank 50 is not endgame. ok fine. So where's the mid-game rank 50 content then? yeah.



Edited, Jan 14th 2011 4:41pm by Llester
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#17 Jan 14 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Validai wrote:
Just a thought that's been rolling around in my head for quite a bit now, but don't hate too badly.

Has there been any evidence that 50 was originally planned to be the highest rank & level available?
Really, who's to say that any 'end game' plans that have been or are currently being made aren't set to be for lets say, Rank 100?

I realize that getting to that blessed rank 50 takes a lot of time, dedication and patients but there seems to be a large amount of players that have gotten to that point in not a whole lot of time. Is it possible that SE had anticipated the dedication of it's player base early on? May-haps a level cap increase will be included with an upcoming major expansion?

I've speculated (without evidence) that maybe Rank 50 in XIV will be the adventuring equivalent to level 30 in XI where you could just kind of start doing stuff such as unlocking extra jobs and exploring areas with less of a chance of being killed immediately. In XI it took a long freeking time to properly get to end game, much longer than it has taken most XIV players to get to R50, even in the very beginning.
I'm just saying that its possible that in typical SE tradition, maybe the leveling process has only just begun and we shouldn't expect any 'end game' content until much later on in the ranks that haven't even been opened yet.

/equip body "Flame Retardant Suit"


I think this is a very high possibility. If I recall correctly, the original level cap in XI was 50 and later they added AF armor quests and cap increases up to 75 which was when "endgame content" began.

So in FFXI terms, maybe we're just level 50 and the next thing to come is AF. Maybe there's no endgame content because 50 isn't endgame.


Let's stop this excuse festival right here. So what you guys are saying is, it's ok for them not to have endgame content since rank 50 is not endgame. ok fine. So where's the mid-game rank 50 content then? yeah.



Edited, Jan 14th 2011 4:41pm by Llester


I never said there shouldn't be any. In fact, FFXI had level 50-60 content; it was called limit breaks and AF quests.

I just said it wouldn't be "endgame" content.
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#18 Jan 14 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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There is currently no endgame.

The closest thing out there are the new(ish) Notorious Monsters which can only be killed by higher rank parties.
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#19 Jan 14 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:

Let's stop this excuse festival right here. So what you guys are saying is, it's ok for them not to have endgame content since rank 50 is not endgame. ok fine. So where's the mid-game rank 50 content then? yeah.


/comfort Llester, I'm sure a lot of people here, including many of those who's trying to explain why there'a a lack of endgame content at this stage, are equally (if not more) frustrated as you are...

Though if I remember correctly FFXI's original "end-game" content with lvl cap @50 was to defeat Shadowlord..? Ah well :P
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#20 Jan 14 2011 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
Let's stop this excuse festival right here. So what you guys are saying is, it's ok for them not to have endgame content since rank 50 is not endgame. ok fine. So where's the mid-game rank 50 content then? yeah.


I agree that the lack of NPC quests, story line, and general direction of the player is a very downtrodden, frustrating and inexcusable issue that needs to be dealt with ASAP; however this particular thread has been developed for the discussion of content that would be considered 'end game' only (hence the title).

If you would like to discuss the serious lack of general or 'mid-game' content as you've referred to it as, let us do it in another thread that I'm sure I've seen created in repetition throughout the forum.
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#21 Jan 14 2011 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Yumiechan wrote:
Llester wrote:

Let's stop this excuse festival right here. So what you guys are saying is, it's ok for them not to have endgame content since rank 50 is not endgame. ok fine. So where's the mid-game rank 50 content then? yeah.


/comfort Llester, I'm sure a lot of people here, including many of those who's trying to explain why there'a a lack of endgame content at this stage, are equally (if not more) frustrated as you are...

Though if I remember correctly FFXI's original "end-game" content with lvl cap @50 was to defeat Shadowlord..? Ah well :P


To be fair, at least that's -something-.

EDIT: Another thought that hasn't been addressed... in a game where more than half of the classes are NOT combat classes and the crafting and gathering classes are being pegged as equally acceptable means of progression, how does one go about designing endgame content for players who don't want to play combat classes?

Or is the shoe going to be on the other foot and when endgame content is released and it's all combat content only, the same players who were getting ****** at being told "Well you HAVE to level a craft so deal with it or quit" are now telling the crafters "Well you HAVE to level a DoM/DoW so deal with it or quit"?

While I personally am not a fan of crafting, I do hope that their plan for endgame content does not leave crafters and gatherers in the cold.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 4:54pm by Mikhalia
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#22 Jan 14 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I doubt they'll release true endgame content until PS3 release. They dont want the PC getting to far ahead. That being said, they really really need to have some sort of content for 1-50. They could've easily accomplished this by making the job rank and main storyline quests actually interesting. Right now they are complete garbage.

It would be very cool if these quests and missions required parties to complete.
#23 Jan 14 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:


I never said there shouldn't be any. In fact, FFXI had level 50-60 content; it was called limit breaks and AF quests.

I just said it wouldn't be "endgame" content.


you're misunderstanding me.

I'm not talking about the "game that will be". I'm talking about the game we are playing now. There is no "endgame" content right now. If the level cap is supposed to be 75, and 50 is mid-game, well then there's no "mid-game" content right now. Call it whatever you like, but don't use a possible level cap increase as an excuse for these fools. Either way, as it stands, once you reach the cap, there is very little content. It's semantics, really. Level 50 is endgame for now.

Not to mention a level cap increase is the last thing we need. There's nothing to do for the first 50 levels, lets not even think about adding 25 more.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 4:55pm by Llester
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#24 Jan 14 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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I like the idea of 50 not having endgame associated with it. They just need to dangle other carrots out there starting at level 20 to get people to want to level. The silly little class solo quests don't count. I'm talking real class quests that involve a challenge and require groups.

Now that I think about it...have we ever heard anything from SE stating Endgame material for level 50 as something they were even working on?

If not...and there is no endgame for 50...that sure sucks for those people who went balls out to 50 and skipped over a lot of fun stuff that has not been added yet. At least for the class they used to get to 50.
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#25 Jan 14 2011 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Fallout 3 has the perfect example of end game.
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#26 Jan 14 2011 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default
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This thread is so full of win & tears <3
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#27 Jan 14 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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i agree, there quite obviously needs to be more content implemented across the board, 1-50.

Is there any reason, by the way, for making the storyline quests tied to rank progression? Why not associate story missions with physical level? Makes more sense to me.
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#28 Jan 14 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:


I never said there shouldn't be any. In fact, FFXI had level 50-60 content; it was called limit breaks and AF quests.

I just said it wouldn't be "endgame" content.


you're misunderstanding me.

I'm not talking about the "game that will be". I'm talking about the game we are playing now. There is no "endgame" content right now. If the level cap is supposed to be 75, and 50 is mid-game, well then there's no "mid-game" content right now. Call it whatever you like, but don't use a possible level cap increase as an excuse for these fools. Either way, as it stands, once you reach the cap, there is very little content. It's semantics, really. Level 50 is endgame for now.

Not to mention a level cap increase is the last thing we need. There's nothing to do for the first 50 levels, lets not even think about adding 25 more.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 4:55pm by Llester


I'm not arguing that there's no content right now; there isn't. I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be; there should be.

Yes, content needs to be added to the game, not just for level 50 but for ALL LEVELS. Especially the earlier ones. I don't want to grind away 35 more levels bored out of my mind because I might have fun with the endgame content; I want to have fun for those 35 levels too.
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#29 Jan 14 2011 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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LyleVertigo wrote:
Fallout 3 has the perfect example of end game.


` 
tgm 
player.additem 432C 1 
player.additem 20799 10000 
` 



All the endgame you need right there. Save first.

EDIT: bonus points in New Vegas if you get Veronica because she'll use one too. Double the pleasure, double the explosions.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 5:05pm by Mikhalia
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#30 Jan 14 2011 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Validai wrote:
Llester wrote:
Let's stop this excuse festival right here. So what you guys are saying is, it's ok for them not to have endgame content since rank 50 is not endgame. ok fine. So where's the mid-game rank 50 content then? yeah.


I agree that the lack of NPC quests, story line, and general direction of the player is a very downtrodden, frustrating and inexcusable issue that needs to be dealt with ASAP; however this particular thread has been developed for the discussion of content that would be considered 'end game' only (hence the title).

If you would like to discuss the serious lack of general or 'mid-game' content as you've referred to it as, let us do it in another thread that I'm sure I've seen created in repetition throughout the forum.



uh what?

we are talking about endgame. Someone said that "maybe lvl 50 isn't endgame"

i said, well for now, it is endgame. later, when the cap is raised, it will be considered midgame. its semantics. either way there aint no content.


how are you not getting this?
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#31 Jan 14 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
Validai wrote:
Llester wrote:
Let's stop this excuse festival right here. So what you guys are saying is, it's ok for them not to have endgame content since rank 50 is not endgame. ok fine. So where's the mid-game rank 50 content then? yeah.


I agree that the lack of NPC quests, story line, and general direction of the player is a very downtrodden, frustrating and inexcusable issue that needs to be dealt with ASAP; however this particular thread has been developed for the discussion of content that would be considered 'end game' only (hence the title).

If you would like to discuss the serious lack of general or 'mid-game' content as you've referred to it as, let us do it in another thread that I'm sure I've seen created in repetition throughout the forum.



uh what?

we are talking about endgame. Someone said that "maybe lvl 50 isn't endgame"

i said, well for now, it is endgame. later, when the cap is raised, it will be considered midgame. its semantics. either way there aint no content.


how are you not getting this?

There are NMs but they are nothing special, the drops aren't anything great.

Not quite on par with say a Hecatomb Leggings or a Kirin Osode in 11. More like, the NM gear is below what would be considered AF gear. Like getting that shamans cloak in altepa.


So, you hit 50, and then your like "wtf did i race to 50 for?"
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#32 Jan 14 2011 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
To be fair, at least that's -something-.


Yep I agree Mikhalia~ actually i think this is one of the good examples that SE is somehow back paddling from FFXI to FFXIV, though I'll stop beating on the dead horse here :P

I sometimes wonder maybe if the original Dev Team was gambling (or had too much confidence) on the overall concept of FFXIV: A truly open-ended world that us the players get to define our own classes and our very own storylines? Just by looking at the class system, it is obvious that they are "trying" to get away from pre-defined classes... The emphasis on crafting is an attempt to have the players create/sustain our own in-game economy... So maybe they "purposely" just leave the world as it is without any side quests/storylines and hoping that we get to create our own...?

Whether or not this is a misfire with good intention or pure laziness on SE's part, let's hope that they are committed in making this a better product down the road :)

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 5:20pm by Yumiechan
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#33 Jan 14 2011 at 7:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Yumiechan wrote:
So maybe they "purposely" just leave the world as it is without any side quests/storylines and hoping that we get to create our own...?


You need conflict in order to create meaningful and interesting stories; since there's no PvP, how can you formulate a storyline between players? It seems to me, based on reading these forums, that the biggest source of conflict in this game is finding the last component you need to have a sword crafted. I'm not sure that's what the developers intended.
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#34 Jan 14 2011 at 7:23 PM Rating: Good
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Quanta wrote:
Yumiechan wrote:
So maybe they "purposely" just leave the world as it is without any side quests/storylines and hoping that we get to create our own...?


You need conflict in order to create meaningful and interesting stories; since there's no PvP, how can you formulate a storyline between players? It seems to me, based on reading these forums, that the biggest source of conflict in this game is finding the last component you need to have a sword crafted. I'm not sure that's what the developers intended.



I'm not sure the developers knew what they intended. seriously.
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#35 Jan 14 2011 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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I'm quite sure the devs didn't think anyone would actually powergrind to 50 since there was no content up there.
But what do you know 11111111111raptors1111111111 ;)
#36 Jan 14 2011 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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GoldenArrow wrote:
I'm quite sure the devs didn't think anyone would actually powergrind to 50 since there was no content up there.
But what do you know 11111111111raptors1111111111 ;)


if you're correct and the devs really didn't expect that, then they have no business making games for this market, because COME ON. this is what hardcore gamers DO to an MMO. race to the end. WE ALL KNOW THIS. but SE doesn't? wouldn't surprise me.
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#37 Jan 14 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
GoldenArrow wrote:
I'm quite sure the devs didn't think anyone would actually powergrind to 50 since there was no content up there.
But what do you know 11111111111raptors1111111111 ;)


if you're correct and the devs really didn't expect that, then they have no business making games for this market, because COME ON. this is what hardcore gamers DO to an MMO. race to the end. WE ALL KNOW THIS. but SE doesn't? wouldn't surprise me.


I get the impression that when SE said they were looking at what other games were doing while developing FFXIV, the research basically amounted to opening company websites in a browser and reading the front page, even though the best information would have been found on the company forums or fansites.
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#38 Jan 14 2011 at 7:53 PM Rating: Default
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Quanta wrote:
Llester wrote:
GoldenArrow wrote:
I'm quite sure the devs didn't think anyone would actually powergrind to 50 since there was no content up there.
But what do you know 11111111111raptors1111111111 ;)


if you're correct and the devs really didn't expect that, then they have no business making games for this market, because COME ON. this is what hardcore gamers DO to an MMO. race to the end. WE ALL KNOW THIS. but SE doesn't? wouldn't surprise me.


I get the impression that when SE said they were looking at what other games were doing while developing FFXIV, the research basically amounted to opening company websites in a browser and reading the front page, even though the best information would have been found on the company forums or fansites.


agreed. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or an arrogance thing or what, but either way SE has been afraid of actively engaging their community of customers in a forum of any kind. So it wouldn't surprise me if they don't pay any attention to other games' forums.

Their "we'll do it our way and you'll either like it or not" approach to game design works really really well when it produces fun games. I actually really respect that approach, so long as it succeeds more often than it fails. I think they failed in this case, not by attempting to appeal to western gamers, but by being so inept in going about it.
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#39 Jan 14 2011 at 9:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

I never said there shouldn't be any. In fact, FFXI had level 50-60 content; it was called limit breaks...


Maat: "Hey, sonny, Legend tells of a Sparkling Beetle Carapace; go git me a Sparkling Beetle Carapace. It's to the north. It's somewhere north. You'll break your limits, man -- above the clouds! -- whatever that means; maybe it's a metaphor, who the **** knows?"
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#40 Jan 14 2011 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Yumiechan wrote:
Llester wrote:

Let's stop this excuse festival right here. So what you guys are saying is, it's ok for them not to have endgame content since rank 50 is not endgame. ok fine. So where's the mid-game rank 50 content then? yeah.


/comfort Llester, I'm sure a lot of people here, including many of those who's trying to explain why there'a a lack of endgame content at this stage, are equally (if not more) frustrated as you are...

Though if I remember correctly FFXI's original "end-game" content with lvl cap @50 was to defeat Shadowlord..? Ah well :P


To be fair, at least that's -something-.

EDIT: Another thought that hasn't been addressed... in a game where more than half of the classes are NOT combat classes and the crafting and gathering classes are being pegged as equally acceptable means of progression, how does one go about designing endgame content for players who don't want to play combat classes?

Or is the shoe going to be on the other foot and when endgame content is released and it's all combat content only, the same players who were getting ****** at being told "Well you HAVE to level a craft so deal with it or quit" are now telling the crafters "Well you HAVE to level a DoM/DoW so deal with it or quit"?

While I personally am not a fan of crafting, I do hope that their plan for endgame content does not leave crafters and gatherers in the cold.

Edited, Jan 14th 2011 4:54pm by Mikhalia



This is a very good point. I, myself am not DoH, but I certainly hope since they do outweight the DoW/M that their endgame content simply isn't crafting the gear so others can perform endgame.
#41 Jan 15 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Buttsniffa wrote:

This is a very good point. I, myself am not DoH, but I certainly hope since they do outweight the DoW/M that their endgame content simply isn't crafting the gear so others can perform endgame.


It's not like crafters and gatherers have anything to offer at this point. SE's vision of the game has been undercut one step at a time, let's take a look:

(1) "We'll have no levels in FFXIV" - Meaning they're called Physical Levels and Ranks, but still do the same thing.

(2) "You can go from a great Conjurer to a great Gladiator instantly!" (this one's on their official website) - meaning that you can go from a good Conjurer to a bad Gladiator thanks to restrictions on stat allocation.

(3) "Disciples of Land, Hand, War, and Magic are all equal!" - in reality, eight crafting classes are just the same solitary barely-mini-game, and the three gatherers are essentially palette- and node-swaps. None of them offers any useful party abilities, or arguably even anything outside of their respective disciplines.

(4) "A World without zones!" - There are zones, many of them; it doesn't really bother me, but it was a bad idea to make such a statement if there was no way they could pull it off.

(5) "Customizable user-interface" - It went from "barely-workable" to "passable," so there's still hope for this, even though their original statements won't be validated until around six-months to a year after release.

~~~~~~

So why point to all of these things? I simply wish to illustrate all of the things that SE has said and, apparently, completely abandoned (or chosen to ignore). There is even an NPC in Limsa Lominsa (I think it's LL, anyway) who says that "Weavers of the cloth bring as much to the battlefield as weavers of magic!" The reason why this is not being implemented is obvious: sometime during the creation of FFXIV, people realized that it's not possible to design a boss that can be defeated by a fastidious man with a spinning wheel as efficiently as a berserk man swinging a battle axe. This should not really be a sign of disappointment, though, because classes should be different: my Beastmaster should be able to solo something better than my Bard!

If someone doesn't want to level a DoM or DoW, then I guess they will have to find another game; if I want to craft in most any other MMO, I still have to level a job that can battle; if I wanted to play any job in FFXI, I'd have to level some sub-jobs.

Like the armory system, like zones, like levels, and like many other things however, I think that the notion of "crafter/gatherer equality" was misguided to begin with and that continued outrage over it will only create an ever more fragmented FFXIV, at odds with itself and its own mechanics -- like stat allocation and instant class-changing.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#42 Jan 15 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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11,576 posts
I remember back in the day when people were still pining over an endgame forum for the XI boards at ZAM and the raging debate over what constituted endgame. It's pretty simple. If there is a level cap and there is content that more or less requires that you be at that level cap in order to participate and make a reasonable contribution, that's endgame. And if a patch or an expansion raises the level cap, then whatever the new level capped activities involve becomes your new endgame. But people get hung up on the name and conveniently overlook the fact that the term itself is a misnomer because the generic concept of an MMO means that there is never an "end". But people still get themselves all worked up over their own e-peen extending definitions of end-game, because it's so much more satisfying if you can exclude as many people as possible so that you can be part of that elite club of end-game participants.

So examining endgame in its broadest sense, there's really not a lot in XIV that differs substantially from anything you do prior to rank 50. A very limited selection of world spawn NMs. In terms of how the game changes at rank 50 compared to everything leading up to it, it really doesn't. You're still doing battlecraft/faction leves, crafting under the same systems and rules as you did at rank 20, and gathering in the same way as you did at rank 20. It wouldn't be accurate to say that there's no endgame at all, but nor would it be accurate to say that FFXIV's endgame scene is anywhere near robust.
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