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Why is Behest so confusing of a concept for so many?Follow

#1 Jan 15 2011 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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It is our greatest way to level. Its an easy 3-4K (around r30+) every single hour. Yet, people still ***** it up.

There's no way to say this in auto-trans, and yes, its international of a problem - so please spread the word to NA/JP alike - dear God people, if you attack and kill mobs other than what the ONE AND ONLY PULLER/TANK and group is fighting you get ZERO sp for it.

This is a bit of a rant, that I needed to get off my mind. I'm sorry for it, but then again, I'm not. If we just slap these people around verbally and force them to understand, we all benefit.

How about that, Square? Put out a guide on how to not ***** up Behest for everyone instead of a utterly useless guide to bazaars?

/rant off...and thanks.

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 8:20am by JerseyProphet2

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 8:21am by JerseyProphet2
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#2 Jan 15 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know exactly what you mean and it can be very annoying, but I can understand why the unlighted don't quite get it.

I think the real issue here is why shouldn't you get SP from none red mobs that you are fighting and in turn defeat? This question is also applicable when grinding and doing AoE damage against multiple mobs, not part of the same group.

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#3 Jan 15 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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"Just when you think you've made an idiot-proof system, god throws some morons at you."

Early on people didn't realize you could only tag 1 group of mobs, but now its just the really, really dumb few who ruin it for others.

Granted, the fact that you can only tag 1 group of mobs that are directly linked together is a real let-down, but I can see why it would be done that way simply based upon other MMOs and mage-type classes.

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 7:49am by Uryuu
#4 Jan 15 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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AOE in FFXIV is the only example I can think of where it is detrimental to use for sp/xp gain. In every other game that it exists in, it is beneficial. I don't get just where there are so many aoe abilities as well, yet by losing sp from using them it seems pointless
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#5 Jan 15 2011 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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JerseyProphet2 wrote:
It is our greatest way to level. Its an easy 3-4K (around r30+) every single hour. Yet, people still ***** it up.

There's no way to say this in auto-trans, and yes, its international of a problem - so please spread the word to NA/JP alike - dear God people, if you attack and kill mobs other than what the ONE AND ONLY PULLER/TANK and group is fighting you get ZERO sp for it.

This is a bit of a rant, that I needed to get off my mind. I'm sorry for it, but then again, I'm not. If we just slap these people around verbally and force them to understand, we all benefit.

How about that, Square? Put out a guide on how to not ***** up Behest for everyone instead of a utterly useless guide to bazaars?

/rant off...and thanks.

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 8:20am by JerseyProphet2

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 8:21am by JerseyProphet2


The big problem, I believe is the language barrier mixed with a clunky chat log. Granted it doesn't make those who ruin a Behest any less "noobie," it seems to me it's just a matter of an unedited chat log and often times a non-English speaking player. I know a French guy made Horizon miserable for quite a while on Rab.



boshed wrote:
I know exactly what you mean and it can be very annoying, but I can understand why the unlighted don't quite get it.

I think the real issue here is why shouldn't you get SP from none red mobs that you are fighting and in turn defeat? This question is also applicable when grinding and doing AoE damage against multiple mobs, not part of the same group.



I agree with this completely. It should be an emergency fix, but hopefully it's included in their next update that SP isn't based on how much HP the mob has when it goes red. Or that they allow more than one team of mobs to be claimed at a time.





MisterGaribaldi wrote:
AOE in FFXIV is the only example I can think of where it is detrimental to use for sp/xp gain. In every other game that it exists in, it is beneficial. I don't get just where there are so many aoe abilities as well, yet by losing sp from using them it seems pointless




The intention behind all the AoE abilities was that the game was designed to be group vs group combat. I'm just as confused, though with all the non-aggro aggro where mobs feel the need to stare into your soul while standing right on top of the mob you're fighting and the detriment of hurting yellow mobs, it makes someone unaware a detriment when they're on a class like Conjurer or Marauder.

All in all, this whole issue is on the long list of things "known" to be an issue and it's sadly just a matter of waiting till the dev team is able to deliver.
#6 Jan 15 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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Sephrick wrote:
All in all, this whole issue is on the long list of things "known" to be an issue and it's sadly just a matter of waiting till the dev team is able to deliver.


You're right of course. I didn't want to bring this up as a point of contention (we've had enough of that recently), but more to answer the OP of "Why is Behest so confusing of a concept for so many?".

But yeah, I'm sure 'something' will be done about it one way or another.
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#7 Jan 15 2011 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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boshed wrote:
Sephrick wrote:
All in all, this whole issue is on the long list of things "known" to be an issue and it's sadly just a matter of waiting till the dev team is able to deliver.


You're right of course. I didn't want to bring this up as a point of contention (we've had enough of that recently), but more to answer the OP of "Why is Behest so confusing of a concept for so many?".

But yeah, I'm sure 'something' will be done about it one way or another.



Oh no, I agree with you 100%. You had a great point and hit on the heart of the matter right away. Which is why I mentioned it should be an "emergency" fix. They designed a game that penalizes you for playing it the way it was designed. But that's been the theme of the past almost four months.
#8 Jan 15 2011 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
Because some people are doing it on purpose and some just flat out don't read forums or listen to any one and then there are those that don't speak English or Japanese and are at a disadvantage when it comes to communication. It's not like the autotranslate function makes it easy to explain not to AOE or target white mobs.
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#9 Jan 15 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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Lots of people also pull off and start attacking the next mobs before the red is done, which also lowers the exp for them when/if they do turn red.
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#10 Jan 15 2011 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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I suggest marking the targets with an icon by hitting "N," then going to enemy signs tab. The odds of the party of sticking with the red mobs and actually waiting for the sign for the next group of mobs lessens the chance of losing SP; whenever I behest at least.

Of course there are still some people who have the urge to use AoE attacks when other yellow mobs are around that is just beyond your control... It would be nice if there was some way to give people a better idea on how to safely use their AoE attacks to not deteriorate our SP, but like another person stated earlier; what's the deal with not gaining SP from mobs that aren't red?
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#11 Jan 15 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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I fully understand why OUTSIDE of Behest, AoEing large groups of mobs will net me no SP gain. With the way in which mobs are clustered, players could be getting huge chunks of SP and items by just mass killing stuff.

However, in Behest, that penalty should just be removed. It's not like behest is at ALL challenging (unless you are low level or low manning it), so why not let us just zerg the crap out of it? It is unbelievably frustrating watching the same asshat repeatedly attacking unclaimed mobs and ******** over peoples SP.

ONLY ATTACK THE CLAIMED MOBS THAT HAVE RED NAMES!

I really can't simplify it any more than that, and if you can't be bothered to read that much and follow directions, gtfo of my Behest group.
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#12 Jan 15 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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By the time I cycle through everyone and actually get to the mob...its dead. So gave up Behests a long time ago... Is there an easier way? I use a controller.
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#13 Jan 15 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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I blame the system and not the players. the concept of behests is that random people get together and kill all mobs, yet doing it that way doesn't maximize SP.

Also i'd suggest that if its only 1 guy or so not on page with the rest of the group, just make him puller

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 11:46am by KujaKoF
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#14 Jan 15 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
By the time I cycle through everyone and actually get to the mob...its dead. So gave up Behests a long time ago... Is there an easier way? I use a controller.



If you are deadset on using a controller over other things sorry this advice won't help you, but I use a controller as well unless I am doing a group activity. If I am doing something in a group I switch to mouse and keyboard.

Someone in my linkshell mentioned that the mouse was actually pretty decent for panning the camera and targeting mobs. I scoffed at this at first since I thought the mouse was horrible in XI and I never used it. I tried it out in XIV and was amazed that it actually works pretty well. Also having to scroll across abilities I wasn't going to use to use the ability I was going to use on a controller was a lot harder than just using the numbered key on the keyboard.

Again sorry if mouse and keyboard is out of the question for you, but it seems to work a lot better in group activities than my controller. If I play solo, I definitely use a controller though. Until SE lets me use my beloved arrow keys for camera control that is Smiley: glare

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 12:44pm by Libtech
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#15 Jan 15 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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behest reminds me a lot of dynamis in ff11, only attack the attacked mob. Is there a good macro to use for this? Back in ff11 you would /assist the puller. I'm stupid with macros. Is there a way to just macro... /attacktheredmob ?

would really help people who can't target before the red mob is already dead.
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#16 Jan 15 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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As ugly as it sounds to me, the reason for Behest problems is the fact that people treat it the same way as those behaving in besieged.

Behest is not regarded as a party by those that do not coordinate themselves. It is not that they do not know what to do, simply not to care. Why should they? Regardless of their behavior others will pick up their slack and clean up their mess. There will always be exceptions, but the truth is to expect these types of issues to never be resolved in public situations. Private parties can be carefully managed by a skilled leader. In Behest, it is impossible to do the same.
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#17 Jan 15 2011 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
It's a bit of a weird thing, Behest...you can have perfect days where everyone is sensible and will follow the Gladiator/Marauder/Lancer to their mobs...or you have people who split from the group and engage other mobs, even if you or someone else has marked it. In several Behests with our Linkshell, I noticed that, we had other members join, one of my LS buddies would use a macro with the following:

/enemysign 1
/p 次のターゲットは <t>
/p Next Target <t>
/p (Enemy Sign) <t>

This will put an attack icon over the head of the mob in question, then the three lines below are echoed in Party chat to convey the next target to attack. I added the third line there for the occasions where you may have someone who doesn't understand either Japanese or English, but usually just the 1st three lines will be fine.

Generally, this will keep the Behest nice and organised, even if you're not the leader. I've found that by using it, party members actually started waiting for me to mark targets before attacking, or even letting me start things off. I also find it polite to say hello to all members who join, and to thank them once the Behest is over.


Edited, Jan 15th 2011 2:04pm by GuiltyBoomerang

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 2:06pm by GuiltyBoomerang

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 2:07pm by GuiltyBoomerang
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#18 Jan 15 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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GuiltyBoomerang wrote:

Generally, this will keep the Behest nice and organised, even if you're not the leader. I've found that by using it, party members actually started waiting for me to mark targets before attacking, or even letting me start things off. I also find it polite to say hello to all members who join, and to thank them once the Behest is over.


My experience is more aligned with Guilty. As much as we all like to believe we are better than everyone else, it's the behests that lack leadership that tend to be most disastrous. People will follow directions if you give them. Mark the puller, mark the tank, or atleast mark the target. When everyone is just sitting there waiting for someone to do something...that's when things go funny. Sure there will be that "one guy," but generally, if you lead, people will follow.
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#19 Jan 15 2011 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The intention behind all the AoE abilities was that the game was designed to be group vs group combat. I'm just as confused, though with all the non-aggro aggro where mobs feel the need to stare into your soul while standing right on top of the mob you're fighting and the detriment of hurting yellow mobs, it makes someone unaware a detriment when they're on a class like Conjurer or Marauder.


This is why you have someone pull with a ranged attack... was pretty standard in ffxi.
Also just be cautious of when you use AoE attacks... this was pretty standard in ffxi as well.
#20 Jan 15 2011 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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I find the following macro works well for EN/JP players: http://ffxiv.zam.com/journal.html?user=372629&mid=129435347615551992&page=1

However, you do sometimes get the occasional French/German/Spanish/etc player that doesn't understand this either. -_-
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#21 Jan 15 2011 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
I blame the system and not the players. the concept of behests is that random people get together and kill all mobs, yet doing it that way doesn't maximize SP.

Also i'd suggest that if its only 1 guy or so not on page with the rest of the group, just make him puller

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 11:46am by KujaKoF


Some people do it just because they feel its how they want to play the game their way. All though not a 100% cure to the problem try this next time your doing long runs. Set up the runs yourself as pty leader. Keep tabs of the person thats attacking mobs that aren't red. Once you find them and they refuse to listen, boot them from the party and don't invite them to the next. Make it clear to the person starting the next run that this person will go out on his own and ruin the sp for everyone else. Either they learn to be a team player or they can have fun solo'n and dying a lot.
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#22 Jan 15 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Please,archers,don't attack first.

Let the tank provoke,it's so annoying having to chase the mob because the "special" archer can't wait 2 seconds.
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#23 Jan 15 2011 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
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(Please set enemy marks)->Your Name. 私の敵をターゲット.

Macro:
/enemysign 1 <t>
/p (Defeat this one first!) <t>

Common sayings:
(/areaofeffect) (No thanks)
(Please don't attack) (Please assist)
You only get SP for the red mobs. 赤だけ.



Take the reins and there's much less confusion. If you start the invites people are more likely to follow you. I usually try not to be lame and ask (Who is the leader?) right when the warden spawns in case there's already a party.

Edit: @Theon, actually... the game is broken right now so the first move doesn't register emnity properly. If you provoke to pull the next attack or boost just strips it away from you. I would prefer an archer to pull since they have such long range there is less confusion, but yeah there douchebags who shoot mobs in completely bad areas.

Edited, Jan 15th 2011 11:30pm by Jamaz
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#24 Jan 16 2011 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
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A couple more points I think are helpful:

-shock spikes should be a no no - makes it worse if someone accidentally aggros something as the spikes will drain their hp when they attack the person who aggroed them.

-if you do AOE something by accident - you can make the situation less bad by not engaging the enemy until the party has finished the mob they're on (so like 10 seconds or less)

-it appears that if you put on a higher ranking job while waiting for the behest to begin you can boost the difficulty of behest. I don't have hard data on this - but it appears to work. Switch back to your lower ranked job once the mobs are revealed.

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#25 Jan 16 2011 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:

-it appears that if you put on a higher ranking job while waiting for the behest to begin you can boost the difficulty of behest. I don't have hard data on this - but it appears to work. Switch back to your lower ranked job once the mobs are revealed.


It ups the number of mobs that spawn for the behest. I guess that does up the difficulty, but not making the actual mobs scale up to that rank in difficulty. They'll still be set for that camp's level. You can make lower rank behests much better SP-fests with that trick.




Edited, Jan 16th 2011 3:05am by TwistedOwl
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#26 Jan 16 2011 at 3:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Funny thing about the "killing unclaimed mobs" issue. Had this happen a couple weeks ago. Pointed it out several times, to no luck on fixing it. Near the end, one of the guys actually responded with "I do it to get this behest over faster."

Yeah...I face palmed right there, and shut up. Can't fix stupid.
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#27 Jan 16 2011 at 5:00 AM Rating: Good
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Simool wrote:
By the time I cycle through everyone and actually get to the mob...its dead. So gave up Behests a long time ago... Is there an easier way? I use a controller.



This happens to me as well.

How can it not be confusing when I can't even see the mob I'm trying to attack?
Sometimes I aoe just because I might have a better chance of hitting the actual target that way.

Tips on targeting the correct mob while using a controller would be much appreciated. =)

If there are any.
#28 Jan 16 2011 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
By the time I cycle through everyone and actually get to the mob...its dead. So gave up Behests a long time ago... Is there an easier way? I use a controller.


Two ways have been easy for me. One is a classic FFXI style. Press F8 to target the closest NPC to you. Now, my keyboard was mapped that way for me and I use a gamepad also. My buddy (who also uses a gamepad) said his didn't work.

So the other way is sure fire and easy. Make a macro that says /targetnpc.

Stand facing the mob, and whatevers closest will target. Presto.

Hint: This also works to claim the Behest NPC when he pops to get in the que :P Ah, shooting myself in the foot.

Edited, Jan 16th 2011 7:28am by JerseyProphet2
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#29 Jan 16 2011 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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I did my first Behest the other day, first one that I didn't crash in. And it was maddening chaotic. The Leader Tagged the first Mob, but there were two guys that kept going off and just attacking any of the Mobs with the Leve tag next to their names, so I guess he gave up Tagging them. I waited until a name would turn red then moved in to hit it a few times but with 15 people it was hard to get close and hit. During the whole thing I only got about five hits in on all the Mobs.

I am around one Camp all the time and I see the same people doing the Behest most of the time. The two hitting the wrong ones are always there and usually always doing the Behest. You have to think they would know what was the right thing to do and begin to wonder if they are targeting the wrong ones on purpose.
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#30 Jan 16 2011 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Its confusing because it isn't explained when you start the game. A lot of people don't even know what it is, how often it happens and much less that you can only claim one mob at a time because otherwise they yield less to no SP.

SE's fault really. They make you go through a bunch of hold your hand tutorials on every FF except the one that really needs it so you don't mess it up for other players.

And I'm talking about real tutorials, not click on this menu and three paragraphs of text will drop.
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