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Is there a lack of unsoloable content?Follow

#1 Jan 16 2011 at 11:41 PM Rating: Decent
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If there's any content I wanna see it's content that I have to do with others, requires some coordination and has a nice reward at the end.

In FFXI everything was in a party, and currently exping solo leves is just fine I never even bother to find a party. Unfortunately that has turned FFXIV into a pretty boring game I barely play. I think we need to make a push for content you "can't" solo - except for NMs at r50...
#2 Jan 17 2011 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Um theres a TON of unsoloable content.

Right outside of Ul'dah try to go to the Four Sisters node.
A lot of those really out of the way nodes are incredible tough mobs to rank 50s.

While (unless your a mage) you wont be one shot killed, they'll hit you for 1700 dmg for being close to them.

The thing is, all content is soloable if your a high enough level. You just can't solo the drakes at four sisters because you can't get to rank 70 yet.



Are you meaning that you want (Hate to use WoW as an example but ...) "Elite" mobs that, while they are the same level as other mobs, have say 5x the stats, and as a result, give more exp, but have the evasion and hit rating of mobs lower level? (Keeping them at a certain level but giving them higher attack power and health allows you to still hit the mob, and have decent chances to block parry evade them, but impossible to solo at that level).

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 1:25am by Eadieni
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#3 Jan 17 2011 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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XI is far more a better example than WoW.

Prior to the 80 cap+ the unsoloable content in XI was:

-Limbus (For most jobs its unsoloable @75 no matter how good you are)
-Einherjar
-Dynamis
-Sky Gods
-Sea Gods
-BCNMs/KSNMs/INNM/ANNMs (level caps made em unsoloable for most, and the "uncapped" ones were a decent challenge)
-Salvage
-A lot of the Assaults
-Campaign
-Besieged
-Leveling if you didn't want to spend an eternity soloing, this was party based even if Abyssea destroyed the concept of parties.

Basically things that forced grouping, while yes people hated having to be social creatures and rather have soloed everything in XI when possible it was a lot more fun for those who liked doing events because you're always around people you (generally) liked. In FFXIV and most solo oriented MMOs...it's boring as **** even if it had unlimited content because everyone would rather solo if it can be soloed.
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#4 Jan 17 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Ya, sure I could tackle higher leves but like I said, i could just as well do them later at a higher rank. There's nothing pushing me to party, even if I may find it'll be funner... I go the lazy route and I don't like that I can do that.

Sure I wasn't a huge fan of LFG in FFXI, but it wasn't that bad, or I just made my own party.
#5 Jan 17 2011 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
XI is far more a better example than WoW.

Prior to the 80 cap+ the unsoloable content in XI was:

-Limbus (For most jobs its unsoloable @75 no matter how good you are)
-Einherjar
-Dynamis
-Sky Gods
-Sea Gods
-BCNMs/KSNMs/INNM/ANNMs (level caps made em unsoloable for most, and the "uncapped" ones were a decent challenge)
-Salvage
-A lot of the Assaults
-Campaign
-Besieged
-Leveling if you didn't want to spend an eternity soloing, this was party based even if Abyssea destroyed the concept of parties.

Basically things that forced grouping, while yes people hated having to be social creatures and rather have soloed everything in XI when possible it was a lot more fun for those who liked doing events because you're always around people you (generally) liked. In FFXIV and most solo oriented MMOs...it's boring as **** even if it had unlimited content because everyone would rather solo if it can be soloed.



On one hand, I've never been part of any party doing any of the things you just listed (except for lvling) and it has caused me a lot of grief that I haven't seen them.

That just goes to show how jam packed XI is with content because I've never ran out of different things to do.

On the other hand if it weren't for those many things that absolutely force partying up then I don't think the XI would have formed into the nice tight-knit "happy to help"- community that it is. That I can appreciate so I think I've enjoyed a lot because of the features you mentioned if only in a weird second-hand kind of way. =)

I still remember my first party.
I was nervous to play with strange people and got everybody killed a few times. Since the I've come to realize that we have one thing in common; we all love that game.

As much as I like the ability to solo, it might be eating important chunks out of this game's true potential until harder more complicated challenges arrive.

And no I'm not talking about end game at all.

#6 Jan 17 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Default
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You can always make the argument of "go fight something much higher level then you" or "turn up you guildleves" but you can do that in any game, that not the point. Hes talking about viable and rewarding group content, whether it be grinding or endgame or w/e. This game only really has 2 things, which are the 5 NMs, but thats only at cap and very limiting and behest which is mostly a mess and stupidly simple. Everything else is more effective solo or with 2-3 people (sometimes) like story, leves, class quests, crafteing obviously (thats all the content of the game right now).
#7 Jan 17 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Okay, first off, I think people and the lack of content argument is a good one, but I honestly think we should give this entire thing a chance.

When XI came out, it was in it's infancy stage (I would include other games released around the same time, but I have no EXP with other online games). From what I've read XI was released in worse shape than XI, and in general the MMO genre was in it's very infantile stages. So to be relased in the shape XI was in, was I guess expected? However XI was a gamed based on grouping, you need to party to get things done.

Here we are 10 years or so later...SE didn't think (obviously) that their player base would be in such an uproar because they released a game that was unfinished (boy were they wrong), they did it with XI and XI turned out great for them...

XI is a game that is based on community...that is fine...however I think they are trying to make 14 a bit more causual gamer friendly...which is fine too...

However XI had 10 years to build upon their community based content...14 has only had what 3-4 monthes? Yes MMO are not in infancy stage anymore, SE should have figured that out based on the competition they are up against...also 14 is not as heavily focused on group play, that is the route they chose, that is the market they are trying to break into with this game (at least that what it seems to me).

However, who is to say that they can't make this game appeal to both markets? They definatly need to do some programming fixes to the battle system so you can chat and battle at the same time, that would help the cohesion of a community. They should have end game things that reward items such at Dynamis and such that ARE optional to the player base to play in. I also think they should still focuse on the ones who wish to only solo or party in groups smaller than 6. They can do it, they have the know how and the bare bone skeleton of this game to do so.

I think the player base just needs to give them some time. Yes, SE messed up big time, they admit it. They are trying to fix it...it's been a few monthes ya'll, give it time...I think it will get there...

Maybe your ls should start planning events to help with cohesion in the community. I know I've seen something of the sort on the Trabia forums where they are looking for people to join in order to promote an active LS to do things...maybe that is an avenue to explore? Be creative until SE can actually maybe implement some group based content...
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#8 Jan 17 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Well as I said in my previous post, maybe we just need Elite mobs that give more exp but can't be solo'd...
If your a rank 30 attacking a rank 50, your not going to hit the mob, or crit on it, or land a nuke or debuff.

If however, your a rank 30 attacking an "elite" rank 35 mob, it will hit hard, have a lot of hp and defense, but you'd be able to hit the mob, land debuffs, and keep the fight lasting long enough to do BRs.

If they added those kinds of mobs (in addition to not in place of solo mobs) then people would have a reason to group. If say, a "elite" mob gave 250-400 exp instead of 120 for example, but a group of 6 could kill one in the same time you could solo a normal (non-doblyn) mob.


Would at least give us reasons to group.


-Editorial Note:
Has anyone noticed (based on zam sigs) that it's always the level 20s defending the lack of content? I mean the people saying there is no content have experienced the entire game and are telling you that from rank 21 through 50 there is nothing new to look forward to that you can't do already ... because there isn't. You solo doblyns from 21 to 50 because grouping nerfs your exp.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 12:34pm by Eadieni
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#9 Jan 17 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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To start off, I don't mind that content is soloable. I think a bit too much is, but I'd rather have it that way than the other. I think its great that people can tune their leves higher and make them group ones (granted the scaling needs some work imo), and yes theres always the option of tackling harder mobs in a group for more SP (which also needs the rewards tweaked, but its there). What I think the problem is then, is the game is lacking engaging content. People would be just as upset/disappointed/annoyed if the same boring stuff we're soloing right now took a group to complete.

I think SE saw us grinding on crabs for years in FFXI and thought we loved it, so they gave us a prettier crab to kill for months on end.
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#10 Jan 17 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
I think SE saw us grinding on crabs for years in FFXI and thought we loved it, so they gave us a prettier crab to kill for months on end.


I try not to reply to threads so soon after making a reply, but I saw that post and I just had to throw my "lolz" in there. That's pretty much exactly how I felt SE was treating this.
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#11 Jan 17 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Eadieni wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
I think SE saw us grinding on crabs for years in FFXI and thought we loved it, so they gave us a prettier crab to kill for months on end.


I try not to reply to threads so soon after making a reply, but I saw that post and I just had to throw my "lolz" in there. That's pretty much exactly how I felt SE was treating this.


"We notice all these bazaars outside Jeuno selling goods; they must love selling goods in bazaars!"
"So in FFXIV, let's just leave the AH out and let people sell things in their bazaars!"
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#12 Jan 17 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
-Sea Gods
Bad time to mention Genbu and Red Mages...? Okay, I'll shut up then.

Quote:
-Campaign
Not entirely. The NPC's did a good portion of the fighting too. You could happily solo as a healer by keeping the NPC's alive. Many a time I would Hexa Strike mobs on my White Mage with Sublimation on standby whilst healing the nearby NPCs. Though I do agree it's impossible to truly 'solo' if you had to kill all the monsters on your own.

FFXI did encourage party play over solo play much more than FFXIV does. And to be honest, while I love having the ability to solo, I think they took it to extremes in this incarnation. There needs to be unsoloable content. There has to be enemies and quests that can't be beaten by Parlay or something equally nonsensical. Still, I think our cries have been heard. I await the next update with bated breath.
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#13 Jan 17 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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FFXI did encourage party play over solo play much more than FFXIV does. And to be honest, while I love having the ability to solo, I think they took it to extremes in this incarnation. There needs to be unsoloable content. There has to be enemies and quests that can't be beaten by Parlay or something equally nonsensical. Still, I think our cries have been heard. I await the next update with bated breath.



I agree, however, when it comes to the main story line, no. I want to enjoy doing this stuff with just my husband and I. I really don't want to have to /shout somewhere begging for help since we are really not looking to join an LS. I think end game things and side quests and some side stories that help add to the main story of 14 or help add to the main story of an expansion.
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#14 Jan 17 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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There really isn't much content in general, whether it be solo or team oriented. Outside of Leves once every 36 hours, there really isn't anything to do. If they would at least make partying worth while it would give us something to do inbetween leves.
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#15 Jan 17 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Eadieni wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
I think SE saw us grinding on crabs for years in FFXI and thought we loved it, so they gave us a prettier crab to kill for months on end.


I try not to reply to threads so soon after making a reply, but I saw that post and I just had to throw my "lolz" in there. That's pretty much exactly how I felt SE was treating this.


"We notice all these bazaars outside Jeuno selling goods; they must love selling goods in bazaars!"
"So in FFXIV, let's just leave the AH out and let people sell things in their bazaars!"


SE is the king of over reacting, the sort to burn down a house to kill the mice inside.
#16 Jan 17 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Eadieni wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
I think SE saw us grinding on crabs for years in FFXI and thought we loved it, so they gave us a prettier crab to kill for months on end.


I try not to reply to threads so soon after making a reply, but I saw that post and I just had to throw my "lolz" in there. That's pretty much exactly how I felt SE was treating this.


"We notice all these bazaars outside Jeuno selling goods; they must love selling goods in bazaars!"
"So in FFXIV, let's just leave the AH out and let people sell things in their bazaars!"


SE is the king of over reacting, the sort to burn down a house to kill the mice inside.


They're not completely at fault though. If people didn't decide to make the Rolan/Batallia/Sauro/LudeMarts more popular than the AH they wouldn't have thought that's the type of system people wanted over an AH, a more "barter" type of system. So I don't think it's overreaction when the data shows bazaars doing most of the work (especially to get rid of the tax).
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#17 Jan 18 2011 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
I think SE saw us grinding on crabs for years in FFXI and thought we loved it, so they gave us a prettier crab to kill for months on end.


Ya but at least I was killing crabs in a party! I don't mind soloable content, but to draw a comparison to WoW (I know u hate this, but hear me out) they allowed u to solo all the way to 60, BUT you could goto instances which forced party play and had blue (rare) items at the end (drop on chance).

So it is possible to have solo and party content, it's just that most of us associate LEVE = SOLO now.

I'll tell you I'm sure SE thought we'd use leves for soloing and partying, but as time went on and partying was poorly implemented we have already gone down the path of leves being associated with soloing. I know this wasn't intentional but it happened. LSes always tell us to not solo, join ur LS members, but i can tell u it's only partially working. I'm not gonna wait 15 mins for my LS m8s when i got an hour to play.

So hear me out SQENIX, to lots of us, LEVE = solo. So come up with a new term for unsoloable content and let the soloers have their leves too.
#18 Jan 18 2011 at 2:15 AM Rating: Decent
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SyniteonReflux wrote:
If there's any content I wanna see it's content that I have to do with others, requires some coordination and has a nice reward at the end.

In FFXI everything was in a party, and currently exping solo leves is just fine I never even bother to find a party. Unfortunately that has turned FFXIV into a pretty boring game I barely play. I think we need to make a push for content you "can't" solo - except for NMs at r50...



Back in 2002 when I used to play FFXI and used to wait 4 hours to get a group, I sent a suggestion to SE saying: waiting to get a group to level up in this game takes too much time, why not implement a system (solo exp quests or closed privet zones) that will take 3-4 days to reset, give you an EXP for a full 3 hours (less or more) of group exp, so we can use it while we wait for a group?

In FFXIV I sent a suggestion to SE saying: almost everything in this game can be done solo, why not make a group (quests or closed zones) that will reset every 3-4 days and give you huge amount of EXP?


Come to think of it now, why not balance things up between FFXI group must and FFXIV solo everything?
They might do that in the next FF MMO
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#19 Jan 18 2011 at 6:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Although many of us are bored with the leve system, it does reward party play. By leve-linking and using Guardian Aspect you can get 50K sp within 3 hours or so. To me, that is better than grinding Coblyn's for the same amount of time.
#20 Jan 18 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
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They're not completely at fault though. If people didn't decide to make the Rolan/Batallia/Sauro/LudeMarts more popular than the AH they wouldn't have thought that's the type of system people wanted over an AH, a more "barter" type of system.


People used the Rolan/Batallia/Sauro/LudeMarts because some things could NOT be sold on the AH and you only had limit amount of spaces to sale your good ON the AH.
#21 Jan 18 2011 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually sky gods were soloed by Avesta, although he wasn't your everyday run of the mill red mage. Red Mages were pretty dominate at soloing the unsoloable.
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#22 Jan 18 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:

I agree, however, when it comes to the main story line, no. I want to enjoy doing this stuff with just my husband and I. I really don't want to have to /shout somewhere begging for help since we are really not looking to join an LS. I think end game things and side quests and some side stories that help add to the main story of 14 or help add to the main story of an expansion.

Man, that would be just awful! The best, most exciting content FFXI ever had dumbed down to trivial encounters you can just steam roll through with a group larger than two? No thanks!

NoNametsu wrote:
Although many of us are bored with the leve system, it does reward party play. By leve-linking and using Guardian Aspect you can get 50K sp within 3 hours or so. To me, that is better than grinding Coblyn's for the same amount of time.

It rewards static parties. Pick-ups, not so much.
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#23 Jan 18 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree, however, when it comes to the main story line, no. I want to enjoy doing this stuff with just my husband and I. I really don't want to have to /shout somewhere begging for help since we are really not looking to join an LS. I think end game things and side quests and some side stories that help add to the main story of 14 or help add to the main story of an expansion.

Man, that would be just awful! The best, most exciting content FFXI ever had dumbed down to trivial encounters you can just steam roll through with a group larger than two? No thanks!



If I had more time to dedicate to gaming, I would be on board with many who want to party with 2+. However, myself and many others, were pitched that this game would be more casual friendly. For those who can't dedicate time to do the things many of you can. I just simply can't. My life will not allow it. I honestly can't find time to be a Mom, a wife, and a caregiver to sick and elderly family members...and still dedicate time that many can that used to do Dynamis, Sky, etc. That's why I quit XI. Life just got too hectic to sit around wait for parties or try to build parties for a few hours, trying to find someone who would level synch.

So when I heard of 14 and it would be friendly to people like me, that is when I signed up. I do want a solo aspect to still be there for people like me and my husband. I also want their to be content for people who want more of a challenge. However, I think that this game needs to stick to it's roots like XI did, and still does.

Edited, Jan 18th 2011 12:34pm by LillithaFenimore
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#24 Jan 18 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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I agree, however, when it comes to the main story line, no. I want to enjoy doing this stuff with just my husband and I. I really don't want to have to /shout somewhere begging for help since we are really not looking to join an LS. I think end game things and side quests and some side stories that help add to the main story of 14 or help add to the main story of an expansion

What makes a Final Fantasy game, ultimately, is the combat. You can argue crafting classes and gathering until you're blue in the face, but from the first ever Final Fantasy to the last, combat has been central to the gameplay. It's the core of what drives the game, and it should remain that way. I like the idea that gathering classes and the like can complete story-driven missions, but they should be entirely separate to the central focus.

Somehow, I couldn't imagine a god like Kirin stopping his rampage to play Parlay with a tarutaru and then handing over his Osode for losing, can you?

Quote:
hat's why I quit XI. Life just got too hectic to sit around wait for parties or try to build parties for a few hours, trying to find someone who would level synch.

I hear you, but I also feel that there MUST be activities you can't solo. There must be story-driven arcs that can't be done on your own. We need things like this to encourage players to band together. To form groups and linkshells to complete these quests and gain that feeling of accomplishment. If you make something too easy, you rob players of that accomplishment. It feels too much like a giveaway than something you earned, and that would be a far bigger crime than robbing solo players of a story.
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#25 Jan 18 2011 at 12:32 PM Rating: Default
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^ Even FFXI over the years changed to help people who cant get partys right away. They added solo stuff like Fields of valor and campaign. I know my friends mother who played almost exclusively solo/duo. She leveled her RDM almost entirely on those 2 things (mainly campaign while she worked on her laptop.)

There needs to be a balance, and this being an MMO, group leveling should ALWAYS be better then solo, but always having the option for both.
#26 Jan 18 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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zanfire wrote:
^ Even FFXI over the years changed to help people who cant get partys right away. They added solo stuff like Fields of valor and campaign. I know my friends mother who played almost exclusively solo/duo. She leveled her RDM almost entirely on those 2 things (mainly campaign while she worked on her laptop.)

There needs to be a balance, and this being an MMO, group leveling should ALWAYS be better then solo, but always having the option for both.


OH without a doubt group leveling should get more points. No argument here over that. I agree.
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#27 Jan 18 2011 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Glitterhands wrote:
Quote:
I agree, however, when it comes to the main story line, no. I want to enjoy doing this stuff with just my husband and I. I really don't want to have to /shout somewhere begging for help since we are really not looking to join an LS. I think end game things and side quests and some side stories that help add to the main story of 14 or help add to the main story of an expansion

What makes a Final Fantasy game, ultimately, is the combat. You can argue crafting classes and gathering until you're blue in the face, but from the first ever Final Fantasy to the last, combat has been central to the gameplay. It's the core of what drives the game, and it should remain that way. I like the idea that gathering classes and the like can complete story-driven missions, but they should be entirely separate to the central focus.

Somehow, I couldn't imagine a god like Kirin stopping his rampage to play Parlay with a tarutaru and then handing over his Osode for losing, can you?

Quote:
hat's why I quit XI. Life just got too hectic to sit around wait for parties or try to build parties for a few hours, trying to find someone who would level synch.

I hear you, but I also feel that there MUST be activities you can't solo. There must be story-driven arcs that can't be done on your own. We need things like this to encourage players to band together. To form groups and linkshells to complete these quests and gain that feeling of accomplishment. If you make something too easy, you rob players of that accomplishment. It feels too much like a giveaway than something you earned, and that would be a far bigger crime than robbing solo players of a story.


And again, I agree there MUST be activities that can't be solo. However, those should be optional to do. The main story line of this game or the main story line of an expasion should not be based on that, especially since you have a leveling system that does involve DOH and DOL, they have to have a way to progress. What I am saying there should be side story lines that are optional for players that maybe require grouping beyond 2 players. Things that HELP add to the story line. Extra cut scenes, better weapons and armor rewards...maybe even special abilities each job can get through that. Someone like me, who doesn't have the time to commit to an LS to group up with others SHOULD be held back from doing and getting those special items and cut scenes and monsters...but as for main story lines...nope!
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