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#52 Jan 20 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
and therefore they never would have specifically said they made leveling to 20 easier


um, actually they did...

Square Enix wrote:

In the hopes of providing players with opportunities to engage in such content as soon as possible, the November version update will see a reduction in the amount of skill points required to reach rank 20. By effectively reducing the amount of time necessary to reach rank 20,


http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=cb4dc09784bc24b4fde2e45de9f018ec5fb504d2

in the Goal-Oriented Content & Comprehensive Tutorials section.

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#53 Jan 20 2011 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Metin wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
and therefore they never would have specifically said they made leveling to 20 easier


um, actually they did...

Square Enix wrote:

In the hopes of providing players with opportunities to engage in such content as soon as possible, the November version update will see a reduction in the amount of skill points required to reach rank 20. By effectively reducing the amount of time necessary to reach rank 20,


http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=cb4dc09784bc24b4fde2e45de9f018ec5fb504d2

in the Goal-Oriented Content & Comprehensive Tutorials section.



I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Yes they lowered SP needed to 20, they lowered SP needed to all levels.

They also give players a much higher SP return on mobs until level 20, that was the point I was originally making.
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#54 Jan 20 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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i dont think Im agreeing or disagreeing with anyone anymore. I dont know my brain is fried with this forum. I read what you put and this detail was already on my mind for something else im going to write.
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#55 Jan 20 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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You're just being obstinate when all the "empirical evidence" you need is called "playing the game."

Note: Your gear and stats don't influence your SP gain anymore - otherwise why would a 46 Glad & 46 Conj having completely different gear and stats be getting static SP.

So barring that ridiculous assertion based on absolutely no evidence go level a job from Rank 19.9 to 20.0001 on the exact same mob and difficulty and you'll see immediately a difference in the SP gain.

**** you can get 200 on a Green at R19 then go fight a Red at Rank 20 and still probably not get 200 (Though for the purposes of the experiment, I'd just stick to Green).

It's what you call "obvious" if you actually go do it. Now stop being a sally and get over it. No one is arguing your side with you and no one else is demanding evidence to something most of us have witnessed first hand (more than once).
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#56 Jan 20 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Metin wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
and therefore they never would have specifically said they made leveling to 20 easier


um, actually they did...

Square Enix wrote:

In the hopes of providing players with opportunities to engage in such content as soon as possible, the November version update will see a reduction in the amount of skill points required to reach rank 20. By effectively reducing the amount of time necessary to reach rank 20,


http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=cb4dc09784bc24b4fde2e45de9f018ec5fb504d2

in the Goal-Oriented Content & Comprehensive Tutorials section.



I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Yes they lowered SP needed to 20, they lowered SP needed to all levels.

They also give players a much higher SP return on mobs until level 20, that was the point I was originally making.


As you may recall, prior to the change to the SP system it was very common for people to complain that they were earning SP from actions far less frequently once they hit rank 20. It was a very common complaint and it was the reason players adopted the strategies that they were using prior to the change to a static SP system. Nobody was ever really able to test and show for certain an average of how much SP they were earning per mob before 20 and how much they were earning from 20 onwards. Then they change it to a static SP gain system and that drop at 20 becomes less of a sinking feeling and more of an in-your-face observation. It's a mess, really. I still can't think of any other MMO that does that.

Edited, Jan 20th 2011 11:14am by Aurelius
#57 Jan 20 2011 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Whatever happened to the old idea of getting experience points for completing quests? Why does that have to change just because the medium does?

It's been pretty much a staple in the majority of MMO's I've played. Pick one and I can almost guarantee there is some form of experience reward for quest completion in it, whether its a repeatable one or not. World of Warcraft, Perfect World, City of Heroes, Guild Wars, DC Universe Online... the list goes on and on.

And so, how do I want to level? I want to level by doing something. Add XP and SP as rewards to local levequests, regional levequests. Tailor the amount of XP/SP to the level of the leve completed or the relative difficulty. We shouldn't have to milk every leve for monsters just because we're after the SP.
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#58 Jan 20 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Glitterhands wrote:
Whatever happened to the old idea of getting experience points for completing quests? Why does that have to change just because the medium does?

It's been pretty much a staple in the majority of MMO's I've played. Pick one and I can almost guarantee there is some form of experience reward for quest completion in it, whether its a repeatable one or not. World of Warcraft, Perfect World, City of Heroes, Guild Wars, DC Universe Online... the list goes on and on.

And so, how do I want to level? I want to level by doing something. Add XP and SP as rewards to local levequests, regional levequests. Tailor the amount of XP/SP to the level of the leve completed or the relative difficulty. We shouldn't have to milk every leve for monsters just because we're after the SP.


well you do see this in XI so I'm pretty sure they will add to XIV once they implement some repeatable/nonrepeatable NPC quests but in XI it was more complicated than the straight forward do task for someone -> money and xp reward. It had a fame system and reputation in each area unlocking further quests, affected prices etc when you had attained a certain level of fame in the area. I personally haven't seen the likes of that in another MMO but I haven't played all these ones that people often speak of except wow.
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#59 Jan 20 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
well you do see this in XI so I'm pretty sure they will add to XIV once they implement some repeatable/nonrepeatable NPC quests
Final Fantasy XI's quest XP reward felt very tacked on and weak compared to rival MMOs. First they introduced XP scrolls as rewards for certain quests, then eventually adding XP, but only for completing BCNM fights. They never added experience points, however small, for regular quests and ALL of those that granted XP had lengthy cooldowns before you could attempt them again.

The funny part is I often hear people complain about the grind, but when suggestions like this come up their first argument is that the game becomes too easy to level up in. So which is it? Do you want to grind the game endlessly or do something different to reach your final rank? You can't have it both ways.
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#60 Jan 20 2011 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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yeah I guess. I prefered XI questing. When I went to wow I could quest all the way, didnt like that, Aion had a good balance but still didnt stick for me. XI has been the only one that has done it so far for me in terms of being the complete game and fulfilling. I see the same potential in XIV, its just taking longer to get started than it should. Anyway we're off topic, nice talking to you :)
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#61 Jan 20 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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NayliaMR wrote:
I have a CNJ at 19. When I work to put him at 20 later this week I will do some testing of this and spend all my leveling killing the same mob, probably a green one if I can find a good mob to work off of. No changes to gear, assigning stat points, or anything will be made. Just kill the same mob for 3k sp before 20 and for another 3k sp after.

Edited, Jan 18th 2011 2:40pm by NayliaMR


One thing to note, locate your next target (and probably a backup target incase someone kills your specific target) before you finish your mob. Otherwise, you may kill a mob that is a lower level and not even know it (as a green mob will con blue when you level, and can be mistakened for a mob that was already blue, at which point you could get 1/2 your exp without even realizing you were fighting a weaker mob (if that made any sense).
#62 Jan 20 2011 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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I want to level in groups, and at the same pace as others in the group. Unfortunately, in order for group leveling to be feasible, the leveling has to be group-only. Otherwise, most players just takes the path of least resistance and play solo.
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#63 Jan 20 2011 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I find Leves and behest to be the best way to get Sp so fare.
I haven't really tryed party's yet.

I like to find random people if I can't find anyone in my LS to help me out with leves.
Also many times before behest starts if you ask the behest party if anyone wants to do leves after you will find a couple people to join up and have some fun with.

I aways enjoy meeting new people and I've found that way to be the best.
#64 Jan 20 2011 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I would like to level in instanced dungons with a small group 4-6 people. Also some open world questing and even a small bit of grinding.

Edited, Jan 20th 2011 10:11pm by UncleRuckusForLife
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#65 Jan 21 2011 at 12:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Metin wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Whatever happened to the old idea of getting experience points for completing quests? Why does that have to change just because the medium does?

It's been pretty much a staple in the majority of MMO's I've played. Pick one and I can almost guarantee there is some form of experience reward for quest completion in it, whether its a repeatable one or not. World of Warcraft, Perfect World, City of Heroes, Guild Wars, DC Universe Online... the list goes on and on.

And so, how do I want to level? I want to level by doing something. Add XP and SP as rewards to local levequests, regional levequests. Tailor the amount of XP/SP to the level of the leve completed or the relative difficulty. We shouldn't have to milk every leve for monsters just because we're after the SP.


well you do see this in XI so I'm pretty sure they will add to XIV once they implement some repeatable/nonrepeatable NPC quests but in XI it was more complicated than the straight forward do task for someone -> money and xp reward. It had a fame system and reputation in each area unlocking further quests, affected prices etc when you had attained a certain level of fame in the area. I personally haven't seen the likes of that in another MMO but I haven't played all these ones that people often speak of except wow.


Doing quests for fame (rep) that causes a reduction in NPC prices when your fame (rep) reaches a certain point (or points) and makes new quests available is not exclusive to FFXI. It's pretty much a staple activity in most MMOs.
#66 Jan 21 2011 at 12:54 AM Rating: Good
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This topic seems to be straying a little from it's focus of how people want to level up. I'd like to see this thread back on track if only to see what other people's opinions on levelling are. Are you a grind-a-holic who wants to set up camps and pound the same groups of mobs into dust for the SP? Are you a quester who wants XP for completing set tasks in Eorzea? Do you have some other unique ideas to bring to the table on how Square-Enix could approach the idea of advancing your character?

We need some brainstorming here so we can send some solid ideas to the development team and perhaps see some of those changes implemented. The more people that contribute, the better the end results so get those thinking caps on!

Myself? I'm a quester, as I've already mentioned. I played Guild Wars a lot and loved how it was fairly easy to advance levels (and ultimately how levels weren't as important as the skills you master) simply by playing through the lengthy main storyline. In my mind, this is how FFXIV should have been to make it seem unique from FFXI, and to erase the repetitiveness of the gameplay. It breaks the game down into smaller objectives and gives players a sense of direction, which is one thing we're really lacking right now.
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#67 Jan 21 2011 at 1:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Glitterhands wrote:
This topic seems to be straying a little from it's focus of how people want to level up. I'd like to see this thread back on track if only to see what other people's opinions on levelling are. Are you a grind-a-holic who wants to set up camps and pound the same groups of mobs into dust for the SP? Are you a quester who wants XP for completing set tasks in Eorzea? Do you have some other unique ideas to bring to the table on how Square-Enix could approach the idea of advancing your character?

We need some brainstorming here so we can send some solid ideas to the development team and perhaps see some of those changes implemented. The more people that contribute, the better the end results so get those thinking caps on!

Myself? I'm a quester, as I've already mentioned. I played Guild Wars a lot and loved how it was fairly easy to advance levels (and ultimately how levels weren't as important as the skills you master) simply by playing through the lengthy main storyline. In my mind, this is how FFXIV should have been to make it seem unique from FFXI, and to erase the repetitiveness of the gameplay. It breaks the game down into smaller objectives and gives players a sense of direction, which is one thing we're really lacking right now.


I would consider myself a quester too. I like having storylines available that guide me throughout the game world. Some may call it hand holding (I have zero idea why, seems to me its just to insult other games), but I find it keeps me interested in whats going on, and I'm bored less often. I like having more identifiable goals, its far more satisfying to accomplish all the quests in an area, than it is to have seen my XP bar move 40%.

From a mechanical standpoint, I enjoy quests that reward players for taking the effort to find and do them, with a good portion of XP coming from mobs themselves though. Games like DCU/champions offer next to no XP for mobs, its almost entirely quest based, which I think is poor. Guild wars kind of ran the course from way too much to nowhere near enough in their expansions, but they ended up in a pretty good zone. I'm happy with a 40:60 ratio either way really, or anything in between.
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#68 Jan 21 2011 at 1:15 AM Rating: Good
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Metin wrote:
yeah I guess. I prefered XI questing. When I went to wow I could quest all the way, didnt like that, Aion had a good balance but still didnt stick for me. XI has been the only one that has done it so far for me in terms of being the complete game and fulfilling. I see the same potential in XIV, its just taking longer to get started than it should. Anyway we're off topic, nice talking to you :)


I don't see how having to rely on people constantly (ala FFXI) to get through the most boring and ultimately useless part of any MMO (leveling) is more fulfilling. It doesn't teach you anything at all beyond where locations are and the general and most basic feel of a game.... that you can get within 5-10 minutes if you rub two brain cells together. It is, and always has been, nothing more than the means to an end as your entire playstyle *always* ends up transforming anyway once you've hit level cap and begin progressing beyond the levels (and not limited to just endgame stuff).

Leveling's boring, and always has been; FFXI's was especially boring. Having to group and interacting with other people made it bearable, not fulfilling. Needing to group to level has never done anything but force you to need to BE in a group to actually level -- it sure as **** doesn't teach you how to play (and just seriously look at a good fraction of FFXI for proof).

The faster it's over with, the better for me. If I wanted to do nothing but level in a group for my 'content' I'd go play an offline RPG as that's ALL they're about. At least the SP-- Sorry, XP -- calculations there would make sense: the higher level you are, the more the monsters give off to give a sense of progression and satisfaction.

Edited, Jan 21st 2011 2:17am by StrijderVechter
#69 Jan 21 2011 at 1:34 AM Rating: Good
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What I want is simple: A scalar challenge, with rewards that scale TO the challenge. That's game psych 101.

Intrinsically, we all want to feel competent, and we want to engage in activities that help us feel that we are becoming increasingly competent... so we need an appropriate level of challenge.

Then motivation can be furthered by providing extrinsic rewards like xp, money, and loot. When these rewards are scaled to accomplishment, they are most effective.

This is really some of the most basic, basic, basic of psychology. It irks me both as a gamer and a professional that SE obviously doesn't have the slightest clue.
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