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SE press conference tomorrowFollow

#1 Jan 17 2011 at 5:42 AM Rating: Excellent
I can't say I've ever really paid attention to their annual press event. What's the chance we'll get some XIV info tomorrow? Coincidence that the players poll ended a few days before this event giving them time to dissect and present a path to fans and shareholders?

Or do they only focus on future IPs?

I know there's those XIII-2 and Type-0-1-2 speculations floating around the net.
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#2 Jan 17 2011 at 5:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's their First Production Department conference, FFXIV and XI are being developed in the Third Department.

So, FFXIII-2, versus XIII, agito XIII, Dissidia: FF, etc.
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#3 Jan 17 2011 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
Well that's semi dissapointing, but thanks for the info.

Maybe if anything some one from the XIV team will be there and get cornered and threatened until they provide an interview o.O
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#4 Jan 17 2011 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
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It is more likely that the Third Department will have their own conference later this Spring.

They've had a tradition of having them quite often in the past (known as Vanafests, specifically targeted for XI).

Although Eorzea Prelive was similar, with new team I wouldn't be surprised if they'll held another one soon. I mean, if you have a new plan and need to convince the players that the game can become p2p, Vana/Eorzeafest is the right place to announce said plan, not the Lodestone.

Just my 2 cents though.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 3:03pm by Hyanmen
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#5 Jan 17 2011 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
It's their First Production Department conference, FFXIV and XI are being developed in the Third Department.

So, FFXIII-2, versus XIII, agito XIII, Dissidia: FF, etc.


Hurray for spending resources making sequels for a ****** game when just about any other FF title would have been a better choice.
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#6 Jan 17 2011 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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When I think of press conferences, I think of people asking *** scandal questions.
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#7 Jan 17 2011 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
It's their First Production Department conference, FFXIV and XI are being developed in the Third Department.

So, FFXIII-2, versus XIII, agito XIII, Dissidia: FF, etc.


Hurray for spending resources making sequels for a sh*tty game when just about any other FF title would have been a better choice.


I for one liked the storyline of FFXIII and am impatiently awaiting Versus, especially since the main looks badass and can use telekinesis and teleport :P

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#8 Jan 17 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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@Mikhalia

Well, they could make sequels to other games, except other than XII, XIII, the MMO games, and X (seeing a pattern here...) they all have concrete endings, and some even went as far as to say what happens years after in the ending credits. They actually already have sequels to all the Ivalice titles as well (XII: Revenant wings, Tactics advanced, advanced 2, etc.) and who can forget X-2..

Guess they're running out of ideas for the franchise without reusing lore. Just a pity they would choose to use recent lore as opposed to older worlds.

Almost forgot IV: The After Years as well in the sequels list ^^; Thanks Theo




Edited, Jan 17th 2011 9:43am by Uryuu
#9 Jan 17 2011 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
It's their First Production Department conference, FFXIV and XI are being developed in the Third Department.

So, FFXIII-2, versus XIII, agito XIII, Dissidia: FF, etc.


Hurray for spending resources making sequels for a sh*tty game when just about any other FF title would have been a better choice.


XIII wasn't that bad since it's only major complaint was the rails area design till gran pulse and having to read datalogs to get info NPCs normally told you or through narration. The pacing was just the same as any other well loved FF game (and 100x more coherent than VII ever will be) but the world map is what was taken out of the equation once you're done with your rails segment. Instead of traveling an overworld you're thrown onto another rail in XIII.

XIII was kind of left open for a sequel or even DLC (which they admitted was going to happen) whereas most of the other FF games..didn't. FFIV got its sequel yeaaaaaaaars ago and a rerelease of said sequel, FFX got it's sequel, VII needs a remake, not a sequel, VIII they just need to tell me wtf I just witnessed, IX is up for debate, III is up for debate, VI kinda..can' get a sequel and V is up for debate. I and II are basically the framework for the FF games, any non mainstream FF game can barely get a sequel, whereas ones like Tactics and Crystal Chronicles can.
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#10 Jan 17 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
It's their First Production Department conference, FFXIV and XI are being developed in the Third Department.

So, FFXIII-2, versus XIII, agito XIII, Dissidia: FF, etc.


Hurray for spending resources making sequels for a sh*tty game when just about any other FF title would have been a better choice.


I always considered the sequels to FFXIII Square-Enix's attempt at "episodic" gaming where they sell you pieces of the story in different games hoping you'd buy them all to get the whole story, like episodes in a series. They kind of did this with the FFXI expansion packs, though they didn't fit into each other they did fit into FFXI.

That's what concerns me actually. Square Enix has shown they like to try different ways of making money off games, so what I fear is that they'll one day say "I wonder how much we can make with a free to play game, using micro transactions for players to buy gear?" like Star Trek Online or something. Then they'd make FFXIV free to play as an experiment. I doubt it but they already have the structure set up for it (by buying Crysta with real money).
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#11 Jan 17 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
It's their First Production Department conference, FFXIV and XI are being developed in the Third Department.

So, FFXIII-2, versus XIII, agito XIII, Dissidia: FF, etc.


Hurray for spending resources making sequels for a sh*tty game when just about any other FF title would have been a better choice.


I agree. Daytime soap operas have more riveting drama and are just as interactive.

They literally had to pick the ONE game that is the worst to make sequels for when everyone has drooled over other FF sequels for decades. Nice going SE!

I can't think of a game with worse writing though Heavy Rain with it's flood of gaping plot holes in every turn does come pretty close. Remind me nod to buy another David Cage or Motomu Toriyama game ever again.

Everybody should look at the games he has directed and rightly wonder how this kind of series of train-wrecks can make somebody the director of a numbered FF game. It baffles me to no end.
#12 Jan 17 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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lol at this thread. Earlier FF's weren't any better. There is a misconception that just because when you were younger these stories appealed to you they were somehow better, when it was purely your lack of experience and maturity that made them 'good'.
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#13 Jan 17 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
lol at this thread. Earlier FF's weren't any better. There is a misconception that just because when you were younger these stories appealed to you they were somehow better, when it was purely your lack of experience and maturity that made them 'good'.


You know for the most part I agree with you. 8's story was just as silly as 13s for example. However 4 and 6 were significantly better than everything else.
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#14 Jan 17 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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LyleVertigo wrote:
When I think of press conferences, I think of people asking *** scandal questions.



This! HAH!
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#15 Jan 17 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
It's their First Production Department conference, FFXIV and XI are being developed in the Third Department.

So, FFXIII-2, versus XIII, agito XIII, Dissidia: FF, etc.


Sadly, I think this is it. The event originally was called on;y the "Fabula Nova Crystallis Conference" and they changed it likely only to cover things like Kingdom Hearts and maybe even Tomb Raider.

Still, one can hope they'd toss us a bone, but SE has a lot on their plate at the moment.
#16 Jan 17 2011 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
lol at this thread. Earlier FF's weren't any better. There is a misconception that just because when you were younger these stories appealed to you they were somehow better, when it was purely your lack of experience and maturity that made them 'good'.


Especially considering most people's first FF was VII to begin with, this is true. A lot didn't understand the tone or emotion behind the earlier FFs if they played more than VII while young, like VI's was a pretty mature storyline.

Much like the Mother series, when young you'll probably just think it's amusing when it was more of a ******** than anything.
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#17 Jan 17 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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I replay 7 and 9 every 3 years or so.... still the best titles imo... and im 27... guess i never matured according to the argument stated above that the stories didnt get worse, but we grew up and became picky....




I could not disagree more though....
#18 Jan 17 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Uryuu wrote:
@Mikhalia

Well, they could make sequels to other games, except other than XII, XIII, the MMO games, and X (seeing a pattern here...) they all have concrete endings, and some even went as far as to say what happens years after in the ending credits. They actually already have sequels to all the Ivalice titles as well (XII: Revenant wings, Tactics advanced, advanced 2, etc.) and who can forget X-2..

Guess they're running out of ideas for the franchise without reusing lore. Just a pity they would choose to use recent lore as opposed to older worlds.

Almost forgot IV: The After Years as well in the sequels list ^^; Thanks Theo




Edited, Jan 17th 2011 9:43am by Uryuu


They could to a sequel to Tactics (not Advance). I'd rather see a remake of FF4-7 with current gen graphics before a sequel to Final Tunnel 13.
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#19 Jan 17 2011 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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guess i never matured according to the argument stated above that the stories didnt get worse, but we grew up and became picky....


People don't behave rationally especially when nostalgy comes into play. The game may still evoke same feelings as it did when you were younger, but it doesn't make it any better objectively speaking. It's your emotions that control what you feel, not logic.

And that's fine. It only becomes a problem when people start acting like their lack of emotions somehow make the newer games worse when it has nothing to do with the quality of said games and everything to do with how your perceived them when you were younger and now older.

Quote:
I'd rather see a remake of FF4-7 with current gen graphics before a sequel to Final Tunnel 13.


So, Final Hide and Seek-2? 100 NPC's in a city, only one progresses the story, find him. In a game where story is the point none the less. Truly superior approach and worth making a sequel.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 8:52pm by Hyanmen
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#20 Jan 17 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
guess i never matured according to the argument stated above that the stories didnt get worse, but we grew up and became picky....


People don't behave rationally especially when nostalgy comes into play. The game may still evoke same feelings as it did when you were younger, but it doesn't make it any better objectively speaking. It's your emotions that control what you feel, not logic.

And that's fine. It only becomes a problem when people start acting like their lack of emotions somehow make the newer games worse when it has nothing to do with the quality of said games and everything to do with how your perceived them when you were younger and now older.

Quote:
I'd rather see a remake of FF4-7 with current gen graphics before a sequel to Final Tunnel 13.


So, Final Hide and Seek-2? 100 NPC's in a city, only one progresses the story, find him. In a game where story is the point none the less. Truly superior approach and worth making a sequel.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 8:52pm by Hyanmen



Whats more likely, every single person who felt an older game had a better story being the victim of nostalgia bias, or a company who has been retelling the same story for 20 years getting worse at doing so.
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#21 Jan 17 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
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I'd rather see a remake of FF4-7 with current gen graphics before a sequel to Final Tunnel 13.


So, Final Hide and Seek-2? 100 NPC's in a city, only one progresses the story, find him. In a game where story is the point none the less. Truly superior approach and worth making a sequel.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 8:52pm by Hyanmen


Beats the **** out of watching a movie and mashing a button over and over.

If I wanted to see a movie, I'd have went to blockbuster and paid $5, not went to GameStop and paid $60. I wanted to play a game, I ended up with a movie in a tunnel.
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#22 Jan 17 2011 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:


People don't behave rationally especially when nostalgy comes into play. The game may still evoke same feelings as it did when you were younger, but it doesn't make it any better objectively speaking. It's your emotions that control what you feel, not logic.

And that's fine. It only becomes a problem when people start acting like their lack of emotions somehow make the newer games worse when it has nothing to do with the quality of said games and everything to do with how your perceived them when you were younger and now older.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 8:52pm by Hyanmen



I agree that the value of affection and nostalgia plays some part in prefference, like you say, however 8, 10 10-2 and 12 came when I was still by definition a kid (more 8 and 10 than 12), and i didn't like them much then... Don't like them now either... but i don't like them less now than i did back in the day...

My thoughts on the abyss that is FF8 for instance, could build a wall of text, and that has more to do with setting and story than any type of nostalgia and value of affection towards 7 or 9. And i would assume that those who preffer retro future with post apocalyptic tendencies, and good old fashioned fantasy settings with majestic kingdoms, and fairytale like creatures, like I do, would enjoy 7 and 9 more than 8, 10 and 12. Even though the storyline in 8, 10, and 12 were.... In my own high opinion, mediocre at best.

Also the main characters lacked charisma.... and with the exception of FF9, SE made sure to make the main character more and more androgyne for each game, up untill XIII when they finally went full circle and made it a girl. I wonder if SE was afraid that the community would not accept a heroine unless they were eased in to the concept through the genderless bridge they built with 8, 10 and 12. The whole androgyne hero thing didn't do it for me at all. I mean come on... in FF12... It might as well have been a flat chested girl with a ******* hair cut.

What I am saying is that a game is more than its story. (But i assume anyone who played FFXIV already knew that) :P


#23 Jan 17 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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Caleberiel wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:


People don't behave rationally especially when nostalgy comes into play. The game may still evoke same feelings as it did when you were younger, but it doesn't make it any better objectively speaking. It's your emotions that control what you feel, not logic.

And that's fine. It only becomes a problem when people start acting like their lack of emotions somehow make the newer games worse when it has nothing to do with the quality of said games and everything to do with how your perceived them when you were younger and now older.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 8:52pm by Hyanmen



I agree that the value of affection and nostalgia plays some part in prefference, like you say, however 8, 10 10-2 and 12 came when I was still by definition a kid (more 8 and 10 than 12), and i didn't like them much then... Don't like them now either... but i don't like them less now than i did back in the day...

My thoughts on the abyss that is FF8 for instance, could build a wall of text, and that has more to do with setting and story than any type of nostalgia and value of affection towards 7 or 9. And i would assume that those who preffer retro future with post apocalyptic tendencies, and good old fashioned fantasy settings with majestic kingdoms, and fairytale like creatures, like I do, would enjoy 7 and 9 more than 8, 10 and 12. Even though the storyline in 8, 10, and 12 were.... In my own high opinion, mediocre at best.

Also the main characters lacked charisma.... and with the exception of FF9, SE made sure to make the main character more and more androgyne for each game, up untill XIII when they finally went full circle and made it a girl. I wonder if SE was afraid that the community would not accept a heroine unless they were eased in to the concept through the genderless bridge they built with 8, 10 and 12. The whole androgyne hero thing didn't do it for me at all. I mean come on... in FF12... It might as well have been a flat chested girl with a ******* hair cut.

What I am saying is that a game is more than its story. (But i assume anyone who played FFXIV already knew that) :P




FF6's main character was female, and one of the five characters in FF5 was a female crossdresser.
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#24 Jan 17 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Beats the **** out of watching a movie and mashing a button over and over.


You know what's so ironic about this, Mikhalia? You are still watching a movie, only this time with dumb roadblocks that stall you from getting where you'll end up either way.

If you wanted to see a movie, you'd play a Final Fantasy game.

And more importantly, somehow everything that comes out of your mouth indicates that this "hide and seek" gameplay of earlier FF's was more important than combat and such, something FFXIII has just like any other game in the franchise. It's also what made these titles "games" and not "movies", because we all know the pinnacle of interaction is speaking to 100 different NPC's while trying to go where you're supposed to go.

And even more importantly, I need to specifically lol at this

Quote:
Beats the **** out of mashing a button over and over.


You just described the whole franchise. Talk about being a hypocrite...

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 9:44pm by Hyanmen
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#25 Jan 17 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
[quote=Caleberiel][quote=Hyanmen]


FF6's main character was female, and one of the five characters in FF5 was a female crossdresser.






Point being...?
#26 Jan 17 2011 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Beats the **** out of watching a movie and mashing a button over and over.


You know what's so ironic about this, Mikhalia? You are still watching a movie, only this time with dumb roadblocks that stall you from getting where you'll end up either way.

If you wanted to see a movie, you'd play a Final Fantasy game.

And more importantly, somehow everything that comes out of your mouth indicates that this "hide and seek" gameplay of earlier FF's was more important than combat and such, something FFXIII has just like any other game in the franchise. It's also what made these titles "games" and not "movies", because we all know the pinnacle of interaction is speaking to 100 different NPC's while trying to go where you're supposed to go.

And even more importantly, I need to specifically lol at this

Quote:
Beats the **** out of mashing a button over and over.


You just described the whole franchise. Talk about being a hypocrite...

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 9:44pm by Hyanmen


Wow... rage, much?

Playing a game should involve playing a game. I do stuff and depending on what I do, different results happen. If I do X thing, then X result happens. If I do Y thing then Y result happens. If I do Z thing then Z result happens.

FF13 was just "Do X, cutscene. Do X, cutscene. Do X, cutscene." While very few JRPGs actually allow you to have free will, at least most of them like to try to make you think you have free will; the ability to stop progressing in the story and go do other things; side quests, leveling up, make money, etc.

FF13 stifled your ability to level up by imposing level caps that were tied to story progress and forced you through a tunnel where at any given point, there was only one thing you could possibly do, and you were rewarded with over nine thousand hours worth of cutscenes for every five minutes of actual gameplay. If I set my controller down every time a cutscene started, I'd say that it would have spent 75% of the time on the table and 25% of the time in my hands. At least in previous titles it was more game and less movie.

Like I said... if I wanted to watch a movie, I'd rent a movie. I didn't buy a game to watch a movie, I bought a game to play a game. And if, to you, that means "talking to 100 NPCs", then so be it. At least it's more interactive than a movie.

Calm down, bro.

Caleberiel wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
FF6's main character was female, and one of the five characters in FF5 was a female crossdresser.


Point being...?


My point was that having a female protagonist is not a new thing. You said "I wonder if SE was afraid that the community would not accept a heroine unless they were eased in to the concept through the genderless bridge they built with 8, 10 and 12." and yet they had already -had- a heroine before any of that.
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#27 Jan 17 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Playing a game should involve playing a game.


And here's where your logic fails: How does running around and pressing X around a bunch of NPC's that really have not much to say in the first place to find the one and correct NPC constitutes as "playing the game" (although with this sentence

Quote:
I do stuff and depending on what I do, different results happen.


I'm not sure we're talking about the same franchise). You do anything, the end result doesn't change. You still talk to the NPC SE wants you to talk to, and the outcome will be always the same. The only difference is that this spectacular hide and seek gameplay feature is missing, something that in the worst case can and will break the pacing of the story.

Secondly, XIII like any other FF before it allowed us to stop doing whatever we're doing to do sidequests. This happened at around the halfway, just like in any FF before it. Before halfway, some FF's had very little optional things to do but they also made good use of the hide and seek mechanic regardless. XIII just takes us to the sidecontent without this amazing gameplay mechanic that somehow totally changes movie into a game.

Lastly,

Quote:
And if, to you, that means "talking to 100 NPCs", then so be it. At least it's more interactive than a movie.


When the point of these games is witnessing the story in the first place (actually everything unrelated to the product being a game- music, characters, story, visuals) having a mechanic in the game that breaks the pace of the story is not "better" in the least, especially when the usefulness of said feature is questionable at best.
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#28 Jan 17 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:


My point was that having a female protagonist is not a new thing. You said "I wonder if SE was afraid that the community would not accept a heroine unless they were eased in to the concept through the genderless bridge they built with 8, 10 and 12." and yet they had already -had- a heroine before any of that.



Ah, so you disregarded that I was not talking about FF3/6 or 5 at all then... Oh well. You don't need to quote me next time you wanna be random. It just gets me confused. :)

#29 Jan 17 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
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And if, to you, that means "talking to 100 NPCs", then so be it. At least it's more interactive than a movie.


When the point of these games is witnessing the story in the first place (actually everything unrelated to the product being a game- music, characters, story, visuals) having a mechanic in the game that breaks the pace of the story is not "better" in the least, especially when the usefulness of said feature is questionable at best.


Well then fine, ***** it. Why not have the X button be "Play movie" and we can sit there and watch a 10 hour movie and call it a game.

Part of being a game implies that I'm pressing buttons and that the buttons do something besides "unpause the movie". Whether that something is chopping up aliens or collecting arbitrary items or talking to NPCs as they repeat "Welcome to Corneria!" over and over, it's -something-

As you said, the ultimate result is still the same but at least prior titles at least tried to make you think that maybe what you were doing might have affected something in some way, even if it didn't. FF13 just took out the middle man and dumbed the game down to "Press X to play movie. Walk over there and press X to continue movie. Walk over there and press X to continue movie."

You can claim the hide-and-seek is a poor game mechanic, and I'm not necessarily saying it's not, but at least it's -something-.

FF13's problem was that they replaced that mechanic with cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel cutscene tunnel to the point that many players got sick of what was not so much a game as a movie that kept pausing itself so that you could walk from point A to point B long before there was anything to do.

The first 15-20 hours of FF13 suffered from the same problem that FF14 suffers from currently: There's very little to do, once you get past the initial excitement. It's fun at first, but eventually it's just a whole bunch of cutscenes in lieu of actual gameplay, even if that gameplay -is- hide and seek. There might be something to do LATER, but there's nothing to do NOW. And in 13, not unlike in 14, players got frustrated and gave up because they don't want to just go through the motions of what is supposed to be a fun game because it might open up later.
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#30 Jan 17 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Well then fine, ***** it. Why not have the X button be "Play movie" and we can sit there and watch a 10 hour movie and call it a game.


Nah, I like me some combat gameplay once in a while. Although movies like the MGS series tend to do this better too.

Yes, they are pretty **** similar when it comes down to it. FF's are more action games (without action) than they ever were RPG's (like Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect).

Quote:
As you said, the ultimate result is still the same but at least prior titles at least tried to make you think that maybe what you were doing might have affected something in some way, even if it didn't.


But now this is kinda silly. If it hadn't any negative impact and didn't take a ton of effort to develop, that would be okay. But it did have a negative impact on the pacing of the story and it did take a ton of effort to develop. Just for the sake of "trying" to hide something that doesn't need to be hidden in the first place.

It is why the franchise has been lagging behind. The company tried to give us both linear MGS experience which is closer to a movie as well as something closer to Elder Scrolls where you truly have freedom to do what you want. The end result was little more than mediocre.

Face it, the franchise isn't known for it's spectacular gameplay. It's not known for handling well everything that makes a game... well, a game. It is easy, lacks proper interaction and does not offer any real freedom whatsoever. It's merits come from totally different aspects, as already said. It all boils down to music, story and characters while someone might mention Materia system (which ended up being totally OP and ruining any challenge anyway).

And now, my main point here is that

Quote:
but at least it's -something-.


that -something- has never been anything but a hindrance to the franchise, objectively speaking. It takes so much effort, and to what end? Your game is less free than Elder Scrolls, the pacing is worse than in MGS and the benefits are marginal (side content can exist without the hide and seek mechanic).

Quote:
The first 15-20 hours of FF13 suffered from the same problem that FF14 suffers from currently: There's very little to do, once you get past the initial excitement. It's fun at first, but eventually it's just a whole bunch of cutscenes in lieu of actual gameplay, even if that gameplay -is- hide and seek.


Suffer and suffer. I suffer from having to deal with finding something specific in a huge city/school/world when in the end I want the story to progress, not talk to random NPC's. Something that was luckily absent in XIII.

In the end, if you want to play a good game or even a game you don't play Final Fantasy. That doesn't mean the franchise is somehow inferior (as anything but a game) but realistically speaking, the whole existence of the series has been one large interactive Spirits Within.

That's not a bad thing, but what was bad thing that the franchise lied to itself for the longest time, trying to hide the fact that it's an "interactive movie" behind a poor game mechanic that didn't really make it much better as a game at all.

All that said, I just wish you wouldn't criticize XIII so much. It's not very justified. That game just made it blatantly obvious what this franchise is all about. Now maybe it can become as good as the MGS series is already.
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#31 Jan 17 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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Not trying to be abrasive, but...

Hyanmen wrote:
All that said, I just wish you wouldn't criticize XIII so much. It's not very justified. That game just made it blatantly obvious what this franchise is all about. Now maybe it can become as good as the MGS series is already.


Not only was FF13 my least favorite FF title, not only was it the only title that didn't instill in me the feeling that I -WANT- to play the game, it was the first FF title to specifically instill in me the feeling that I wanted to turn it off.

I preordered 13 and paid it in full the day it was announced. Waited to get it at Midnight. Bought the hardcover strategy guide for it, got home and popped it in with all the enthusiasm of a kid on Christmas.

Only three hours in the game, I was no longer having fun, not even remotely enjoying myself or the game, and just forcing myself to play because I wanted to try to compensate for the fact that I just dropped an assload of money on a game I had not only anticipated, but a game that factored heavily into my decision to buy a brand new console to play it on.

You're **** right that I'm going to criticize the game because it built up my hopes over the course of several months and dashed them to pieces in a matter of hours with a gaping void of a black hole that sucked the fun out of me where a game -should- have been.

For that matter, I could replace every instance of "13" in what I just said and replace it with 14 (except that there was no midnight release and I bought two CEs of 14 and no strategy guide, although 14 factored into major system upgrades for my computer) and it would still be true.

For two numbered Final Fantasy titles in a row, SE has gotten my hopes up about how awesome the game was going to be and then took a **** on my face.

At least FF14 has a chance to change and get better. Unfortunately, FF13 doesn't have that opportunity. I am sitting on a game I spent $60 on and can never bring myself to play because I can't stand it. Not unlike 14, I want a game that makes me want to play it. Neither 13 nor 14 have done that.

If 15 turns out to be as big a letdown as 13 and 14 were, I'm done with the Final Fantasy franchise as a whole.
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#32 Jan 17 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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ive played and loved pretty much every FF title, aside from X-2 i enjoyed them all...until it came to FF13. Whats good about it was the great graphics, decent story, nice music....but the rest (which makes up more of a % to play for me) was the combat and such. On rails world, overly long tutorial (getting basic crap 10hrs in is not good) on of the first FF games that i remember where you could only control one character and thats it, the game pretty much played itself...it was almost inefficient not to use the auto fight crap most of the time, cheap fights that you died in because it turns out to be more trial and error with basic monsters, almost no depth to leveling (the sphere grid was deeper) and having to rely on AI that half the time did stupid crap when you wanted a heal, No real citys to explore, extremely limiting on side things to do, though it may of come later....it came too late (FF is known for all of the alternative things to do)...ect

i could go on but you get the point. Then came my next huge disappointed which was FF14...after years of enjoying F11 i thought...."even if its not great il probably like it, they did say they wanted to have it work for FF11 players first so il give it the benifit of the doubt" and man was i horribly wrong. For me thats 2 strikes in a row. I can deal with a bad game every so often, but this was not good...and the MMO is something that is going to last years, not just a month...so it was a huge strike for me.
#33 Jan 17 2011 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Just to add my tiny opinion into this fun back-and-forth argument, I can't really agree with Mik more. I sat down with FF XIII with a lot of excitement and many expectations. It wasn't until a few hours in that I realized I didn't have a choice in the pace of the game. The game had a goal for me, and it was violently shoving me in that direction no matter how much I resisted. I liked the "searching through the 100 NPCs" referred to above. It gave a feeling of control and depth to move around at my own pace and take in as many details of the world as I wanted. I kept waiting to be dumped out of the main story line and into an open world where I could mess around, do side-quests.. take a break from the stresses of fighting for my life. That never really happened until much later, and even then it was just a dump into a big area full of enemies.

Don't get me wrong, I like combat, but I don't feel like an RPG should be so forceful in its direction as FFXIII was.
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#34 Jan 17 2011 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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kasumisan wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
It's their First Production Department conference, FFXIV and XI are being developed in the Third Department.

So, FFXIII-2, versus XIII, agito XIII, Dissidia: FF, etc.


Hurray for spending resources making sequels for a sh*tty game when just about any other FF title would have been a better choice.


I for one liked the storyline of FFXIII and am impatiently awaiting Versus, especially since the main looks badass and can use telekinesis and teleport :P



I, too, liked XIII. Too linear for the first half, yes, but Sazh is just too cool not to be in another game! :D

****, at least I don't have to stare and Vaan's nipples or Tidus's rippling legs and runny nose. >_>
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#35 Jan 17 2011 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
kasumisan wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
It's their First Production Department conference, FFXIV and XI are being developed in the Third Department.

So, FFXIII-2, versus XIII, agito XIII, Dissidia: FF, etc.


Hurray for spending resources making sequels for a sh*tty game when just about any other FF title would have been a better choice.


I for one liked the storyline of FFXIII and am impatiently awaiting Versus, especially since the main looks badass and can use telekinesis and teleport :P



I, too, liked XIII. Too linear for the first half, yes, but Sazh is just too cool not to be in another game! :D

****, at least I don't have to stare and Vaan's nipples or Tidus's rippling legs and runny nose. >_>


Sazh was one of the only deep and solid characters, too many where annoying or unlikable. Hope whined WAAAYY too much, where his story should have been angry revenge > gets over it > grows into a man. Snow was ok, he was a cliche, but he took everything over the top, Lightning was meh also, too much brooding and almost no real growth, and anyone who spent more then 10 mins in the game was not a fan of Vinniel (i cant spell) she was annoying way too fast. The Lancer lady was actually decent, but i couldnt stand playing the game a short time after she came along.
#36 Jan 17 2011 at 6:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Based on several ratedowns, it would appear that disliking a game that I don't have fun in is an unpopular opinion. I'm sorry, was I supposed to play it even though I don't like it? I didn't get the memo.

Amuses me though that I'm not the only one here with a negative opinion of 13 who got rated down though, and yet no one actually capable of rating has actually said anything, but instead rated down everyone who didn't like it.

If you've got something to say to defend the terrible excuse of a game that 13 was, stop hiding behind your red arrow of butthurtery and say it.

Tossing out some rate ups to counter the troll who thinks the red arrow is a "dislike" button when they can't even find the Reply button.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like someone just chucked blanket ratedowns at nearly everyone.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 7:45pm by Mikhalia
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#37 Jan 17 2011 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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And how exactly do we know it wasn't the first development producion team that was assigned to FFXIV? How do you know their online division is 3rd?

Random rumors and made up sourceless facts are fun, eh?
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#38 Jan 17 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Playing FFXIII pretty much felt like every other FF to me honestly. Sure, we had a linear path in FFXIII and it was blatantly obvious just by looking at the map. Yet every other FF is the exact same way except the tunnel is wider and hidden. You are forced to go to one specific location. Straying from that path leads to monsters beyond your level.

I'd like to compare it to FFX. You literally walked a nice jagged line to the next location and when you got to the end? You walked it in reverse! The dungeons weren't sprawling areas either. I specifically remember that game being lambasted for being linear as well and it's regarded highly. It had it's side distractions of course with Blitzball and it's mini-games to upgrade the weapons. Personally, combat in FFXIII was more fun to me than X. The forced level cap you received due to your place in the story was fine as well since at the very least, it kept what little challenge the game had since you couldn't just overgrind a boss you couldn't defeat. You had to, ya know, learn how to use the battle system effectively.

I have to wonder though if FFXIII became linear due to a lot of fans complaining that FFXII was too much of an open world.
#39 Jan 17 2011 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Based on several ratedowns, it would appear that disliking a game that I don't have fun in is an unpopular opinion. I'm sorry, was I supposed to play it even though I don't like it? I didn't get the memo.

Amuses me though that I'm not the only one here with a negative opinion of 13 who got rated down though, and yet no one actually capable of rating has actually said anything, but instead rated down everyone who didn't like it.

If you've got something to say to defend the terrible excuse of a game that 13 was, stop hiding behind your red arrow of butthurtery and say it.

Tossing out some rate ups to counter the troll who thinks the red arrow is a "dislike" button when they can't even find the Reply button.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like someone just chucked blanket ratedowns at nearly everyone.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 7:45pm by Mikhalia


I'm glad Mikhalia brought this up. I think it's important we all take a quick breath and realize that a rate-down is not a proper way of expressing disagreement.

That said: I disagree with you. :)

Final Fantasy 13 was commercially a success and on Metacretic it received a fairly nod-worthy rating of 85%. In comparison: Final Fantasy XI received 81. 13 did not receive the lowest score of the Numerical series either. (Though it'd be unfair to say who did since that game was a release (not re-) into the West after nearly a decade.)

I am not going to vehemently debate anyone that disliked 13 simply because I am a firm supporter in difference tastes. . I will debate anyone that says SE is losing it, because quite frankly they aren't. XIV was the first trip of the foot for them and they swooped in rather quickly to remedy the situation was amazing tact.
#40 Jan 17 2011 at 7:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyena wrote:
Playing FFXIII pretty much felt like every other FF to me honestly. Sure, we had a linear path in FFXIII and it was blatantly obvious just by looking at the map. Yet every other FF is the exact same way except the tunnel is wider and hidden. You are forced to go to one specific location. Straying from that path leads to monsters beyond your level.

I'd like to compare it to FFX. You literally walked a nice jagged line to the next location and when you got to the end? You walked it in reverse! The dungeons weren't sprawling areas either. I specifically remember that game being lambasted for being linear as well and it's regarded highly. It had it's side distractions of course with Blitzball and it's mini-games to upgrade the weapons. Personally, combat in FFXIII was more fun to me than X. The forced level cap you received due to your place in the story was fine as well since at the very least, it kept what little challenge the game had since you couldn't just overgrind a boss you couldn't defeat. You had to, ya know, learn how to use the battle system effectively.

I have to wonder though if FFXIII became linear due to a lot of fans complaining that FFXII was too much of an open world.


I disliked X for the same reason, although at least I got further though X's tunnel before giving up on it. I think the fact that there weren't as many cutscenes is what allowed me to play more. 13 had way too many cutscenes. It's the same reason I thought Kingdom Hearts was a fine game but abandoned KH2 less than an hour in: way too many cutscenes, not enough gameplay.

Plus, I've always considered grinding to beat bosses to be one of my favorite parts of single player FF titles.

And anyone who complained about 12 being "too much of an open world" needs to be slapped; that was the best part of FF12. Might as well complain that Mass Effect has "too much shooting and too many aliens".

KPBeta wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Based on several ratedowns, it would appear that disliking a game that I don't have fun in is an unpopular opinion. I'm sorry, was I supposed to play it even though I don't like it? I didn't get the memo.

Amuses me though that I'm not the only one here with a negative opinion of 13 who got rated down though, and yet no one actually capable of rating has actually said anything, but instead rated down everyone who didn't like it.

If you've got something to say to defend the terrible excuse of a game that 13 was, stop hiding behind your red arrow of butthurtery and say it.

Tossing out some rate ups to counter the troll who thinks the red arrow is a "dislike" button when they can't even find the Reply button.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like someone just chucked blanket ratedowns at nearly everyone.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 7:45pm by Mikhalia


I'm glad Mikhalia brought this up. I think it's important we all take a quick breath and realize that a rate-down is not a proper way of expressing disagreement.

That said: I disagree with you. :)

Final Fantasy 13 was commercially a success and on Metacretic it received a fairly nod-worthy rating of 85%. In comparison: Final Fantasy XI received 81. 13 did not receive the lowest score of the Numerical series either. (Though it'd be unfair to say who did since that game was a release (not re-) into the West after nearly a decade.)

I am not going to vehemently debate anyone that disliked 13 simply because I am a firm supporter in difference tastes. . I will debate anyone that says SE is losing it, because quite frankly they aren't. XIV was the first trip of the foot for them and they swooped in rather quickly to remedy the situation was amazing tact.


I'm well aware it was critically received well. I still think it's a tunnel that was overly laden with cutscenes.

Honestly, depending on who you ask...

Some people will tell you that FF11 marked the downfall of the series.
Some people will tell you that FF11 was good but FF12 and everything after it was terrible.
Some people will tell you that FF12 was great but FF13 and FF14 sucked (That's me)
Some people will tell you that everything up to FF14 was good, and that FF14 was the first poor title (That's you)

I mean, I respect someone's right to disagree with me. Just because -I- don't like FF13 doesn't mean you don't, that no one did... Just means I didn't.

When it comes to RPGs, I want an open world to explore. FF12 was the closest that any of the single player FFs came to that, which is why it was my favorite. FF4 and 6 were 3rd and 2nd respectively. I didn't care for 13 or 10 because they took away the idea that the world was a big place to wander around and explore and the world became reduced to long tunnels with walls and only one way in and one way out.

As for why I liked 13 the least, I don't mind the OCCASIONAL cutscene when you NEED to emphasise a FEW points in the story. It's ONE thing to use them SPARINGLY and only for EMPHASIS.

It's AN entirely different MATTER when you USE them in places THAT they aren't needed, and THEY end up not MAKING any sense AT all.

AND THEN IT'S ANOTHER MATTER ENTIRELY WHEN YOU HAVE WAY TOO MANY CUTSCENES BECAUSE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO EMPHASIZE EVERYTHING.

Not unlike typing in all caps, cutscenes should be used judiciously where they make a strong effect. If you use too many cutscenes, you end up with less of a game and more of a movie. And it's just annoying.

Again... my opinion. I accept that people are free to disagree.
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#41 Jan 17 2011 at 7:52 PM Rating: Default
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KPBeta wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Based on several ratedowns, it would appear that disliking a game that I don't have fun in is an unpopular opinion. I'm sorry, was I supposed to play it even though I don't like it? I didn't get the memo.

Amuses me though that I'm not the only one here with a negative opinion of 13 who got rated down though, and yet no one actually capable of rating has actually said anything, but instead rated down everyone who didn't like it.

If you've got something to say to defend the terrible excuse of a game that 13 was, stop hiding behind your red arrow of butthurtery and say it.

Tossing out some rate ups to counter the troll who thinks the red arrow is a "dislike" button when they can't even find the Reply button.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like someone just chucked blanket ratedowns at nearly everyone.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 7:45pm by Mikhalia


I'm glad Mikhalia brought this up. I think it's important we all take a quick breath and realize that a rate-down is not a proper way of expressing disagreement.

That said: I disagree with you. :)

Final Fantasy 13 was commercially a success and on Metacretic it received a fairly nod-worthy rating of 85%. In comparison: Final Fantasy XI received 81. 13 did not receive the lowest score of the Numerical series either. (Though it'd be unfair to say who did since that game was a release (not re-) into the West after nearly a decade.)

I am not going to vehemently debate anyone that disliked 13 simply because I am a firm supporter in difference tastes. . I will debate anyone that says SE is losing it, because quite frankly they aren't. XIV was the first trip of the foot for them and they swooped in rather quickly to remedy the situation was amazing tact.


FF13 may have made money and got decent reviews (not sure why you compared to FFXI, it being an MMO and all) but if you looked at news, fansites, gamesites...ect you must have seen the huge amount of people who disliked FF13. Just like many of us here did with 14, we bought the game because we loved what SE has done and we like the series in general. People make jokes about 13 and its been on a handful of disappointed lists. Is its awful...nope, but its by far one of the least loved of the series and didnt live up to many peoples expectations.

After that and now the huge dissapointment that is FFXIV all in a year and they are major console release, which we havent had since 2006...and after that long and knowing we may have to wait longer for another, people were ****** and i dont blame them. Of course it wasnt all bad, i know this, we have had lots of good stuff on handhelds like Dissidia and KH.
#42 Jan 17 2011 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe they will anounce to the world why the forgot to add the most asked retainer question in the load stone post titles Retainers.

Q. Why is my retainer never in wards when i return to see if anything sold?
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#43 Jan 17 2011 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
<snip>


I understand. I can only really rebut by saying that I like long cutscenes. Granted I was miffed that the story was 'meh' overall, though I have high standards for narration and plot, in general. (Perhaps too high >.>).

You know five years ago I would have agreed with you. But I gave games like Oblivion and Fallout a try and I was utterly disappointed. On the flip side, Final Fantasy XI was the most open game of the series (when you really think about it), and I enjoyed that. So maybe SE can squeeze something big out of them akin to that model. Who knows.
#44 Jan 17 2011 at 8:14 PM Rating: Default
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KPBeta wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Based on several ratedowns, it would appear that disliking a game that I don't have fun in is an unpopular opinion. I'm sorry, was I supposed to play it even though I don't like it? I didn't get the memo.

Amuses me though that I'm not the only one here with a negative opinion of 13 who got rated down though, and yet no one actually capable of rating has actually said anything, but instead rated down everyone who didn't like it.

If you've got something to say to defend the terrible excuse of a game that 13 was, stop hiding behind your red arrow of butthurtery and say it.

Tossing out some rate ups to counter the troll who thinks the red arrow is a "dislike" button when they can't even find the Reply button.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like someone just chucked blanket ratedowns at nearly everyone.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 7:45pm by Mikhalia


I'm glad Mikhalia brought this up. I think it's important we all take a quick breath and realize that a rate-down is not a proper way of expressing disagreement.

That said: I disagree with you. :)

Final Fantasy 13 was commercially a success and on Metacretic it received a fairly nod-worthy rating of 85%. In comparison: Final Fantasy XI received 81. 13 did not receive the lowest score of the Numerical series either. (Though it'd be unfair to say who did since that game was a release (not re-) into the West after nearly a decade.)

I am not going to vehemently debate anyone that disliked 13 simply because I am a firm supporter in difference tastes. . I will debate anyone that says SE is losing it, because quite frankly they aren't. XIV was the first trip of the foot for them and they swooped in rather quickly to remedy the situation was amazing tact.


Oh yes the first trip of the foot, besides front mission evolved, Last mana game, last 2 saga games, all the FF crystal games and this one <.<

Yup first trip of the foot XD!
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#45 Jan 17 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
KPBeta wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Based on several ratedowns, it would appear that disliking a game that I don't have fun in is an unpopular opinion. I'm sorry, was I supposed to play it even though I don't like it? I didn't get the memo.

Amuses me though that I'm not the only one here with a negative opinion of 13 who got rated down though, and yet no one actually capable of rating has actually said anything, but instead rated down everyone who didn't like it.

If you've got something to say to defend the terrible excuse of a game that 13 was, stop hiding behind your red arrow of butthurtery and say it.

Tossing out some rate ups to counter the troll who thinks the red arrow is a "dislike" button when they can't even find the Reply button.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like someone just chucked blanket ratedowns at nearly everyone.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 7:45pm by Mikhalia


I'm glad Mikhalia brought this up. I think it's important we all take a quick breath and realize that a rate-down is not a proper way of expressing disagreement.

That said: I disagree with you. :)

Final Fantasy 13 was commercially a success and on Metacretic it received a fairly nod-worthy rating of 85%. In comparison: Final Fantasy XI received 81. 13 did not receive the lowest score of the Numerical series either. (Though it'd be unfair to say who did since that game was a release (not re-) into the West after nearly a decade.)

I am not going to vehemently debate anyone that disliked 13 simply because I am a firm supporter in difference tastes. . I will debate anyone that says SE is losing it, because quite frankly they aren't. XIV was the first trip of the foot for them and they swooped in rather quickly to remedy the situation was amazing tact.


Oh yes the first trip of the foot, besides front mission evolved, Last mana game, last 2 saga games, all the FF crystal games and this one <.<

Yup first trip of the foot XD!


For the flagship series.
#46 Jan 17 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Default
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That would be FFXIII No ?
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#47 Jan 17 2011 at 8:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
That would be FFXIII No ?


And here we go again, round 2 *ding* *ding* *ding*
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Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
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#48 Jan 17 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Default
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'Hides the "It sold # Millions Card"

Oh bring it NAOS! :@
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#49 Jan 17 2011 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Hyena wrote:
Playing FFXIII pretty much felt like every other FF to me honestly. Sure, we had a linear path in FFXIII and it was blatantly obvious just by looking at the map. Yet every other FF is the exact same way except the tunnel is wider and hidden. You are forced to go to one specific location. Straying from that path leads to monsters beyond your level.

I'd like to compare it to FFX. You literally walked a nice jagged line to the next location and when you got to the end? You walked it in reverse! The dungeons weren't sprawling areas either. I specifically remember that game being lambasted for being linear as well and it's regarded highly. It had it's side distractions of course with Blitzball and it's mini-games to upgrade the weapons. Personally, combat in FFXIII was more fun to me than X. The forced level cap you received due to your place in the story was fine as well since at the very least, it kept what little challenge the game had since you couldn't just overgrind a boss you couldn't defeat. You had to, ya know, learn how to use the battle system effectively.

I have to wonder though if FFXIII became linear due to a lot of fans complaining that FFXII was too much of an open world.


I disliked X for the same reason, although at least I got further though X's tunnel before giving up on it. I think the fact that there weren't as many cutscenes is what allowed me to play more. 13 had way too many cutscenes. It's the same reason I thought Kingdom Hearts was a fine game but abandoned KH2 less than an hour in: way too many cutscenes, not enough gameplay.

Plus, I've always considered grinding to beat bosses to be one of my favorite parts of single player FF titles.

And anyone who complained about 12 being "too much of an open world" needs to be slapped; that was the best part of FF12. Might as well complain that Mass Effect has "too much shooting and too many aliens".


The amount of people hating on FFXII's massive world is unbelievable to me. Whole lot of complaining that it took too long to get anywhere. I too hated the constant cutscenes in FFXIII but after having played a lot of this generation's games, it was par for the course.

And hey, I liked FF: Crystal Chronicles for the Gamecube. :( Those characters were cute. The DS version.. not so much. Haven't played the Wii version but, it -looked- fun.
#50 Jan 17 2011 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
Sage
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1,675 posts
I agree with Mik 100% on the whole FFXIII thing. I don't want to go into all the points why because I have in other posts before. In short, Final Fantasies have been experiences with many things to do and usually with something novel implemented, XIII didn't provide me with any of that.

Although FFXIII Versus or whatever it's called sounds good (I still have my SE blinders on).




#51 Jan 17 2011 at 10:45 PM Rating: Good
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1,500 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Based on several ratedowns, it would appear that disliking a game that I don't have fun in is an unpopular opinion. I'm sorry, was I supposed to play it even though I don't like it? I didn't get the memo.

Amuses me though that I'm not the only one here with a negative opinion of 13 who got rated down though, and yet no one actually capable of rating has actually said anything, but instead rated down everyone who didn't like it.

If you've got something to say to defend the terrible excuse of a game that 13 was, stop hiding behind your red arrow of butthurtery and say it.

Tossing out some rate ups to counter the troll who thinks the red arrow is a "dislike" button when they can't even find the Reply button.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like someone just chucked blanket ratedowns at nearly everyone.

Edited, Jan 17th 2011 7:45pm by Mikhalia
You see, I don't agree with your approach, I don't think I need to come and say exactly what I consider wrong or miss-informative about a post to rate it down, I think the arrow is there and you have the right to use it (up or down) for anything that fall into the right category (helpful or incorrect)

I didn't rate you down Mikh because I usually don't rate down ppl who trying to be helpful and informative, like you. Yet I'm here to tell you saying that 13 is a "terrible excuse of a game" because you don't like it, it's not correct.

You can stress the initial tunnel all you want but if you just kept going far enough to get out it, surely you had realized the amazing world that 13 had to offer, I understand you consider that an unforgivable flaw. However the game ratings were good, like for example according to metacritics 83 of each 100 people can live with the flaws and still enjoy the game, that's enough to call it a good game.

tl;dr: if someone rate you down for stating that ff13 is terrible it's OK, that's misinformation.

Ken

Edit:typo

Edited, Jan 18th 2011 6:09am by kenage
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