I didn't like the pacing at all
Well, it depends how the pacing is broken. You didn't have to do any mundane tasks and got straight to the point- I guess we need to agree to disagree. The way other FF's broke the pacing was simply horrendous, but I guess something needs to replace it that keeps the story intact.
Agree to disagree it is.
I didn't know you needed the game to hold your hand and walk you through the side content in addition to the story.
No, but any kind of hint would definitely be welcome. It's like doing quests in XI. Yeah, you can get it done- after searching the whole world twice for it. Especially when sometimes you didn't even know whether there was any sidecontent or not. Later you were like "oh, I could have done that? Too bad the game didn't tell me, I'm already past that point."
Okay, fair enough.
me allegedly not liking any of the FF titles
Well, now I get to say that you are putting words on my
mouth. I already told you why you like these titles, but that doesn't stop you from criticizing them without even realizing it.
Could I criticize past titles? Sure. I didn't like the draw system in 8. I didn't like Blitzball in 10. I didn't like 9's card came nearly as much as I liked 8's. I didn't like that 4, 5, and 6 will have characters leave your party without warning (fair enough, it's not like you deserve a warning, I won't argue that) and their gear goes with them (Really? I can't have your sh*t?).
That's me criticizing past titles. Up until this paragraph, I have not done so. Am I saying every FF before 13 was perfect? Hardly. I'm simply saying that 13 was the first FF that I genuinely thought was a bad game and that I did not like.
No game had nearly as many cutscenes as 13 did.
You have some kind of proof for this aside from a hunch?
I'll take a page from Aurelius' playbook and say that it's readily observable. Feel free to count how many cutscenes there are in 13 and compare them to the number of cutscenes in any other FF title.
Earlier FF's? Bad games, good movies. XIII? Slightly less bad game, better movie. They took out the crappy gameplay but didn't replace it with anything better. That's still better than leaving the crap in, in my book. Especially when we play these games for the story, not for their mind-blowing gameplay.
I also see the amount of personal insults is raising. Surely you aren't going to end this argument all of a sudden by making up excuses as to why I am a troll? You can't say I haven't had any valid points here. That is quite insulting even if we are in a disagreement.
I won't say that you don't have any valid points, I have certainly agreed with some of the points you have made. My issue is that you are trying to claim that I am somehow bashing every FF ever made simply because there were some aspects about 13 I didn't like, and no matter how many times I try to explain it, you just don't seem to get it. This leads me to the conclusion that either you genuinely are not getting it, or that you do get it but that you're pretending not to. And I'm having a hard time understanding how you don't get it.
I'll close with a couple points I made in IRC earlier, in the hopes they clarify the matter:
(3:34:08 PM) Mikhalia_Work: My primary two points are thus:
(3:34:27 PM) Mikhalia_Work: 1) 13 had way too many cutscenes. This does not apply to other titles.
(3:34:56 PM) Mikhalia_Work: 2) 13's "one way in, one way out" system was too linear and boring. Aside from X and X2 (which yes, it also applies to) this applies to no other titles.
(3:35:09 PM) Mikhalia_Work: So I -am- only criticizing 13.
(3:35:33 PM) Mikhalia_Work: I have said several times across several threads that I accept that some people like 13.
(3:35:42 PM) Mikhalia_Work: In fact, I'm pretty sure I've said it in that thread at some point
(3:37:34 PM) Mikhalia_Work: I never said his opinion was wrong
(3:37:44 PM) Mikhalia_Work: nor did I say that no one is allowed to like the game
(3:37:49 PM) Mikhalia_Work: just that I felt it was a bad game.
(3:38:07 PM) Mikhalia_Work: only FF I loathed was 13
(3:38:15 PM) Mikhalia_Work: I wasn't a huge fan of 8 or 10, thought they were okay.
(3:38:23 PM) Mikhalia_Work: 10-2 I liked okay I guess. Wasn't great
(3:38:30 PM) Mikhalia_Work: If other people like 13, then fine. That's cool.
(3:38:35 PM) Mikhalia_Work: I still think it was a bad game.
(3:38:43 PM) Mikhalia_Work: And for the record, I also think Quest 64 was a terrible game.
(3:38:47 PM) Mikhalia_Work: But I liked Quest 64.
(3:39:03 PM) Mikhalia_Work: I also think that Yoshi's Story was a terrible game
(3:39:08 PM) Mikhalia_Work: but I enjoyed it
(3:39:31 PM) Mikhalia_Work: I'm not saying that "I don't like it" = "terrible game"; There are some terrible games I do like and there are some games I don't like which are not terrible
(3:39:45 PM) Mikhalia_Work: I don't like EVE but that doesn't make it terrible. I don't like Halo but it's not a terrible game.
(3:40:07 PM) Mikhalia_Work: I -am- saying that I disliked 13 -and- I think it was a terrible game, that these points are individual and not causal
(3:40:32 PM) Mikhalia_Work: e.g. if I say that a car is red and fast, I am not saying that all red cars are fast or that the car is fast because it is red.
That's what I'm getting at. There are several aspects of 13 that I did not like. I've listed them, and no, they were not "always present in every FF ever". You can argue that you don't like the hide-and-seek mechanic, and perhaps you don't. But if FF13 had more hide-and-seek and 10% of the amount of cutscenes that it has, in a world that allowed you to freely roam MUCH earlier in the game (e.g. 12, the title right before it), I would have enjoyed 13. While there were many sub reasons, the primary reasons I disliked 13 were the overabundance of CGI movie after CGI movie on every map transition, and the fact that most of the maps were one way in, one way out tunnels.
Am I saying no one should like it? No. Am I saying that it is unenjoyable? Depends on the person. Am I saying that I think it was a bad game? Yes. Do I -only- think it was a bad game because I don't like it? No.
I'm simply saying that I do not feel that:
1) Go from point A to point B
2) Watch a 2 minute cutscene
...is a good game design. Again, you can argue that the old games "just boil down to that anyway" but I've made the same point that most MMORPG "quests" simply boil down to what a guildleve is (go kill X number of this thing), and yet while people seem to like "quests", the guildleves are bland.
Flour tastes horrible. Raw eggs leave much to be desired. Baking powder is pretty nasty. Salt tastes okay, etc... when you combine them to a cake or pie, they taste delicious together, but the individual components are bad.
Pizza is basically just tomato sauce, cheese, and dough. But if I just tossed tomato sauce, cheese, and dough in a bowl and said "here, enjoy", it wouldn't taste so great.
That is my biggest issue with 13. They took all of the little minor filler, which you may argue is meaningless and I won't necessarily disagree, the walking around looking for NPCs, the checking shops, etc... they took out most of the ingredients and instead of the Final Fantasy cake I have come to expect and enjoy, I was left with a pile of flour and raw eggs and I didn't enjoy it at all.
Even if you do want to argue "Well every cake has flour and raw eggs, so you're just saying you don't like any cakes at all", that's where you're wrong. Even if some individual elements of 13 that I didn't like were partially in past games, it's all in the way the game comes together. Edited, Jan 18th 2011 5:53pm by Mikhalia