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Plea - Keep the Whining to the Forums Follow

#1 Jan 17 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Before I get to the real issue, I want to give a little background on our linkshell. So our linkshell started mass recruiting players when the game first came out hoping to form a large social group. It seemed to work well early on when the linkshell was bustling with activity and had upwards of 60+ active members. Of course, like many other linkshells out there, as time went on the number of players started to dwindle and many of our members who could not deal with the short comings of the game quit entirely. What was left were about 25 players who continued to play the game, despite the problems, and have managed to find things to do in-game to keep them satisfied/entertained. Needless to say, the 25 of us left have all developed a pet peeve for people who whine about the game, simply because we had to endure over 30+ members who ******* about how terrible the game was before they quit, and for those of us who read forums, have endured even more posts about the same thing.

Nobody blames any of the players for whining, because they certainly have enough reasons to support their argument. We simply bit our tongues, and watched friends leave the game one by one. Disappointing yes. But life goes on..

Now, what i'm starting to notice is that a number of these players who supposedly quit the game are slowly signing on again. Normally we'd be happy about this, except it seems that many of these players still hold a tremendous grudge towards SE and their "epic failure" and spend 70% of their time in game pointing out things that are still broken in the game, and in the worst case scenario ridicule those of us who have gotten to high ranks on how we managed to waste so much time on this failing game. I've managed to pretty much blist most of these whiners because no matter what I say to try and help them enjoy the game again, they all seemed pretty adamant about their opinions. However, what was a very friendly ls environment for the past few months have now turned into a drama fest with a couple people trying to defend the positives of the game to people who really shouldn't even be playing at this point.

So my plea is for those of you who hate the game and SE, please keep your whining to the forums. Here, your voices actually serve a purpose (especially if aforementioned whining goes in the feedback forums). Please don't go signing on the game from time to time trying to ruin the game for the minority of us who enjoy it. Not to mention with the current ls system (which you will no doubtly ***** out as well) you can't simply kick ls members at will but have to actually be in close proximity so its just a huge headache having to deal with all of this drama.

TL DR; ***** in forums, you'll help the game out. ***** in game; you're just being a **** and ruining the game for the few of us who still enjoy it.





#2 Jan 17 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, okay, but just let me add a little addendum because I understand and agree with your point but I don't think dumping it here is appropriate. We have a Feedback and Suggestion Forum for FFXIV here at ZAM and if that's the goal is to bring about improvement to the game through player feedback, that's the forum where the ******** needs to go, not here.

I set the game aside when I realized that most of the time all I felt like doing was ********* And it wouldn't be fair to the rest of the people around me to just sign on and be negative all the time so the best thing to do was step back. Not everyone is going to take that approach, but simply ranting and kvetching doesn't help. If it's not constructive, nobody wants to hear it anymore. And if it is constructive, it needs to be heard by the people who can do something about it, and those people don't come to this particular corner of the ZAM world to read about it.
#3 Jan 17 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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I'm torn here, actually. On one hand, in a strictly logical sense, I agree with 100% of everything you just wrote. It's reasonable and defensible. I really prefer people speak in those terms, so I appreciate that personally.

However, that being said, if FFXIV is going to, well, let's be honest, it's not going to succeed, so let's say that if it's not going to fail in entirety, people will have to come back. New people will have to buy the game. And as it stands, there probably isn't an MMO gamer out there who doesn't know this game's now-infamous story at this point.

The fact that people are coming back doesn't say to me "We just want to dump negativity on you players" -- They come back because they genuinely want to play this game. They want to support SE and share in a thrilling game experience with thousands of people. No one wants to dislike a game.

People are just upset that they want to like something, and they find something that (arguably, to most) isn't really fun, or even like-able. So, as much as I understand where you're coming from (I really do), if you're holding an unpopular minority opinion and the game's in a position since it's free for people to come back at will, you're probably just going to have to deal with it, no offense.
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#4 Jan 17 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Speaking on my own behalf, I want to -want- to play the game but it doesn't feel, to me, like the game wants me to play it.

I try to play from time to time after patches, and I have been pleased with some of the improvements, the wards search, the chat limit increase, etc.

I get that some people are happy with the game and I could totally understand why they don't want to listen to people complain about the game, but at the same time, the people who are playing and complaining are nearly always people like me who WANT to love the game but are finding it impossible to do so.

When you look forward to a game for so long and the game lets you down like this one did, there's little left to do but complain sometimes.
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#5 Jan 17 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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The issue I have with this is that people always use the word "whining" when someone says anything bad about the game. To me, that is completely unnecessary in a lot of cases. Sure there are those players who do just repeatedly complain, ***** and moan about EVERYTHING, but there are also a lot of people out there (myself included) who very much like the game but see many of its current flaws. Being called a whiner for simply expressing my opinion is very uncalled for, and quite frankly, causing just as much drama.

A perfect example in my LS. I was in a party with a friend of mine in-game who happens to be VERY pro-ffxiv. I said "I really wish that the grind in this game wasn't quite as steep. It's frustrating to spend all day crafting and see very little progress.", to which he responded "Well why don't they just give everyone level 50 immediately. Quit whining." This then started a confrontation between us that escalated into LS chat, over something so insignficant.

I think the real issue is that each side of the debate needs to understand the others point of view. Those who really love the game now need to just realize that a LOT of people are unhappy and that just because someone mentions something negative, they don't need to jump all over that person. Those who really dislike the game need to realize that there ARE a lot of good things in it, and if they are truly that unhappy, perhaps they should either stop playing for a while or post more in the feedback forums to try and get things fixed. There are definitely 2 sides to every discussion, and while I agree that there are a fair number of "haters" who will do NOTHING but complain, there are also those on the other side who go too far defending the game as if it were perfect.

Basically, everyone just needs to keep an open mind and not immediately hit the rate down button every time they see something they don't like, or verbally abuse someone simply for having a different point of view.
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#6 Jan 17 2011 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
The issue I have with this is that people always use the word "whining" when someone says anything bad about the game. To me, that is completely unnecessary in a lot of cases. Sure there are those players who do just repeatedly complain, ***** and moan about EVERYTHING, but there are also a lot of people out there (myself included) who very much like the game but see many of its current flaws. Being called a whiner for simply expressing my opinion is very uncalled for, and quite frankly, causing just as much drama.

A perfect example in my LS. I was in a party with a friend of mine in-game who happens to be VERY pro-ffxiv. I said "I really wish that the grind in this game wasn't quite as steep. It's frustrating to spend all day crafting and see very little progress.", to which he responded "Well why don't they just give everyone level 50 immediately. Quit whining." This then started a confrontation between us that escalated into LS chat, over something so insignficant.

I think the real issue is that each side of the debate needs to understand the others point of view. Those who really love the game now need to just realize that a LOT of people are unhappy and that just because someone mentions something negative, they don't need to jump all over that person. Those who really dislike the game need to realize that there ARE a lot of good things in it, and if they are truly that unhappy, perhaps they should either stop playing for a while or post more in the feedback forums to try and get things fixed. There are definitely 2 sides to every discussion, and while I agree that there are a fair number of "haters" who will do NOTHING but complain, there are also those on the other side who go too far defending the game as if it were perfect.

Basically, everyone just needs to keep an open mind and not immediately hit the rate down button every time they see something they don't like, or verbally abuse someone simply for having a different point of view.


I agree wholeheartedly and have said as much in the past. The players who think there is nothing wrong and the players who think there is nothing right are both lost causes.

Furthermore, people need to realize that not every complaint is whining and not every compliment is being a fanboy. There -is- middle ground to be found here. I frequently find myself standing on it, looking at people on either end of the spectrum and just shaking my head.
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#7 Jan 17 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
The issue I have with this is that people always use the word "whining" when someone says anything bad about the game. To me, that is completely unnecessary in a lot of cases. Sure there are those players who do just repeatedly complain, ***** and moan about EVERYTHING, but there are also a lot of people out there (myself included) who very much like the game but see many of its current flaws. Being called a whiner for simply expressing my opinion is very uncalled for, and quite frankly, causing just as much drama.

A perfect example in my LS. I was in a party with a friend of mine in-game who happens to be VERY pro-ffxiv. I said "I really wish that the grind in this game wasn't quite as steep. It's frustrating to spend all day crafting and see very little progress.", to which he responded "Well why don't they just give everyone level 50 immediately. Quit whining." This then started a confrontation between us that escalated into LS chat, over something so insignficant.

I think the real issue is that each side of the debate needs to understand the others point of view. Those who really love the game now need to just realize that a LOT of people are unhappy and that just because someone mentions something negative, they don't need to jump all over that person. Those who really dislike the game need to realize that there ARE a lot of good things in it, and if they are truly that unhappy, perhaps they should either stop playing for a while or post more in the feedback forums to try and get things fixed. There are definitely 2 sides to every discussion, and while I agree that there are a fair number of "haters" who will do NOTHING but complain, there are also those on the other side who go too far defending the game as if it were perfect.

Basically, everyone just needs to keep an open mind and not immediately hit the rate down button every time they see something they don't like, or verbally abuse someone simply for having a different point of view.


Forgive me if i use the word whining liberally. But to clarify, nobody in our linkshell is a fan boy of SE or the game. We all know the game as problems and that it has a lot of work to do if it is to ever succeed. We complain about things now and then like the sp glitch, or the long haul to 50, or the lack of content, etc etc. Anyone who has stuck around since the release of the game will have the sense to recognize these issues. But the difference is people who have continued playing this whole time have learned that ******** about the problems in the game constantly to fellow ls members serves no purpose whatsoever and instead have learned to enjoy other aspects of the game with friends.

What I fail to understand are the individuals who have a personal vendetta against SE and feel that signing on the game to vent would change anything. And to make matters worse, when we try to offer them advise on how we managed to avoid getting bogged down by the problems they always seem to find more things to complain about. They complain about killing thousands of doblyns just to hit 40 so we offer them exp camps off efts and flans that yield 25k/hr or static linkshell leves to which they respond, party mechanics in this game is broken because classes are undefined so we offer to let them focus on nuking since we have 2 dedicated CONs for healing and buffs/debuffs, to which they respond stats allocation is retarded system to which we respond that we've learned that a balanced stat allocation ends up being more efficient for party dynamics to which they respond that the fatigue and equip wear is retardly broken to which we reply that we typically static on 3 different classes on a rotational basis instead of one (since there is limited level 50 content anyways so no rush) to avoid being in penalty all the time and offer names of respected crafters on our server who are willing to repair stuff to which they reply that the game sucks... -.-

So then we tell them come back at the PS3 launch to give it another try but they linger and pester the ls chat with endless negativity. The last thing we need is for our ls chat to become a typical forum debate about the merits and downfalls of the game.

#8 Jan 17 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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lightacadi wrote:
Forgive me if i use the word whining liberally. But to clarify, nobody in our linkshell is a fan boy of SE or the game. We all know the game as problems and that it has a lot of work to do if it is to ever succeed. We complain about things now and then like the sp glitch, or the long haul to 50, or the lack of content, etc etc. Anyone who has stuck around since the release of the game will have the sense to recognize these issues. But the difference is people who have continued playing this whole time have learned that ******** about the problems in the game constantly to fellow ls members serves no purpose whatsoever and instead have learned to enjoy other aspects of the game with friends.

What I fail to understand are the individuals who have a personal vendetta against SE and feel that signing on the game to vent would change anything. And to make matters worse, when we try to offer them advise on how we managed to avoid getting bogged down by the problems they always seem to find more things to complain about. They complain about killing thousands of doblyns just to hit 40 so we offer them exp camps off efts and flans that yield 25k/hr or static linkshell leves to which they respond, party mechanics in this game is broken because classes are undefined so we offer to let them focus on nuking since we have 2 dedicated CONs for healing and buffs/debuffs, to which they respond stats allocation is retarded system to which we respond that we've learned that a balanced stat allocation ends up being more efficient for party dynamics to which they respond that the fatigue and equip wear is retardly broken to which we reply that we typically static on 3 different classes on a rotational basis instead of one (since there is limited level 50 content anyways so no rush) to avoid being in penalty all the time and offer names of respected crafters on our server who are willing to repair stuff to which they reply that the game sucks... -.-

So then we tell them come back at the PS3 launch to give it another try but they linger and pester the ls chat with endless negativity. The last thing we need is for our ls chat to become a typical forum debate about the merits and downfalls of the game.


My honest suggestion would be, if they're creating that much of a disruption, to just remove them from the LS.

I hate to be tongue-in-cheek here, but this is asking for it...

Unfortunately, the LS system is terrible and booting them requires not only for them to be online, but for you to go find them as well.

Here's hoping the next version update includes "Ability to promote/demote/boot offline players and players anywhere in the world" because the game DESPERATELY needs it.
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#9 Jan 17 2011 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
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Whining about whining is still whining!
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#10 Jan 17 2011 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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Do what I do. Warn them about it, if they're still being a baby then use the blacklist and enjoy the game. ^ ^
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#11 Jan 17 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Default
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However, that being said, if FFXIV is going to, well, let's be honest, it's not going to succeed, so let's say that if it's not going to fail in entirety, people will have to come back. New people will have to buy the game. And as it stands, there probably isn't an MMO gamer out there who doesn't know this game's now-infamous story at this point.


I'm very critical of this game, but I can still see it achieving a pretty good level of success IF they don't botch the console release. Console MMOs are few and far between, and a good one will pretty much capture that segment of the market. As for PC... time will tell, but as it stands things aren't looking too good.
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#12 Jan 17 2011 at 7:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Why don't you just re-make the linkshell? Take the 25 odd of you that are still enjoying what's available and re-form?

You won't change those that aren't interested in changing so you're just continuing to stay in the stew for no real reason. Remove yourselves, and the virtual world will instantly brighten.
#13 Jan 17 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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I'm actually new to the Final Fantasy Online series & also new to 3D MMO's in general.



To be honest, and with a clean slate, I find this game to be enjoyable and very clean. Maybe the lack of XI experience

has led to my indifference towards the whining, as to this point, 14 is still a brand spanking new game.

#14 Jan 17 2011 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Do what I do. Warn them about it, if they're still being a baby then use the blacklist and enjoy the game


This also works great here. Although I don't really warn anyone. Usually 4-5 "I really want to like the game, but .. [insert complaint here] does it for me, and I just see their name and continue scrolling down the page
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#15 Jan 18 2011 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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I frequently find myself standing on it, looking at people on either end of the spectrum and just shaking my head.


You get used to it eventually.
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