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* Caution Concerning Use of Third Party Programs or Tools *Follow

#1 Jan 20 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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As indicated in the Prohibited Activities in Final Fantasy XIV, use of third party programs or tools in FINAL FANTASY XIV is strictly prohibited, as they damage game balance and allow users to gain an unfair advantage over other players.

We have determined that a number of players are utilizing third party programs or tools. If you are found to have used such programs, your service account could face disciplinary measures. Additionally, there have been cases of malicious software being embedded in such programs, and users of such programs put themselves at risk of losing control of their character in-game, acquiring viruses, having personal information stolen, having their account compromised, and being the recipient of any number of harmful activities.

We would like all users to be able to play in a secure environment, and ask for your aid in adhering to our policies.

We thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=8ba41d3914fe7775e77cd1113ff4679ddf92a30e

Edited, Jan 20th 2011 4:38pm by dodokins
#2 Jan 20 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Default
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Maybe they will get rid of some RMT bots finally.
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#3 Jan 20 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Ah- the real issue finally uncovered...
Thank you S-E!!!

I sense that botting is a big issue in this game... It is a bit upsetting.. but maybe in the grand-scheme of things they will get their account banned and will lose all their progress!!
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#4 Jan 20 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know *head jerks around maddeningly* how they could *keeps trying to shoot a bow even though he is out of arrows* ever manage to *head continues to jerk about* spot us botters. They must have some *continuously tries to attack an out-of-range Marmot* pretty advanced new software.
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#5 Jan 20 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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The vast majority of non-RMT that are using these tools are fully aware of the risks involved. They just "don't give a ferret's ****" (quoted from an Angel episode I just watched, it made me lol). I bet some use it just to provoke the banning of their account, just so they can ***** about it later lol

The first person I saw using a bot, Loman Light (guy in my video) is still running around doing what he does XD SE loves to take their time with these things, they'll give months between their first warning, and even more time before you are surprise suspended/banned. It is how they roll XD

So just because you haven't been contacted or affected yet and you stopped using it doesn't mean you are out of the woods. Just a taste months ago could bite you in the *** months later :3 Still, a lucky few will slip through the cracks. I'll be happy if at least the above sheitbag will hang from the rafters. That's all I want. XD
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#6 Jan 20 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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Here's SE's words in layman's terms:

To those of you who have been botting and/or cheating:
We know what you are doing, we have known for awhile. This is your last chance to stop, or you will be banned as soon as we compile the next STF report.
#7 Jan 20 2011 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
Ok, on one hand I'm glad they are finally addrssing this directly... on the other where's our "official" communication. Interviews and such are cool and all, but feed me some translated BS about how happy everything will be next week. At the very least a post saying "hey we did an interview with this company, here's the link"... Meh I'm begining to not know what I want anymore.

I'm not a "white knight" but I do think the game has recieved unfair treatment from the press and community, it just makes it hard for me to ignore some of the "dark knights" (ok crappy analogy since the Dark Knight is kind of a hero and all).

Still I'm glad they officially addressed this. We've had what, 3 hacked account threads now? So there's bound to be a few more who haven't posted and I'm sure Customer Service is getting bombarded with people who've had their accounts hacked some of which no doubt downloaded 3rd party apps. I know if I wasn't getting monthly income on a game I'd be pretty ****** if my customer service folks spent a good portion of hteir time trying to help people who did something against ToS.... I dunno. I'm gonna finish my beer and go to bed before I create a sock and rate myself down.
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#8 Jan 20 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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How about people that use autohotkey script to make the windowed mode of the game full screen? Since SE didn't provide us with a full screen version of the game that doesn't crash when alt tabbed and the windowed version doesn't fit in the screen I have no choice. Guess I'll find out >_>
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#9 Jan 20 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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fallout386 wrote:
How about people that use autohotkey script to make the windowed mode of the game full screen? Since SE didn't provide us with a full screen version of the game that doesn't crash when alt tabbed and the windowed version doesn't fit in the screen I have no choice. Guess I'll find out >_>


You may become collateral damage of overzealous banning, to be honest. However, I have a feeling that if you stop now, regardless of what you were doing, you will be safe. This announcement just screams "last warning" to me.
#10 Jan 20 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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How long before "WTF why is SE banning me instead of fixing their horrible game? Whatever! I didn't like this game anyway!" posts?
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#11 Jan 20 2011 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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"Last warning" or not, I have trouble taking this seriously. I'm not paying for this game (and won't be for a while, apparently), the population is struggling at best, and we still don't have any concrete information on future updates (vague developer wishes do not really count, unfortunately).

While I do not condone the use of third-party tools for many reasons that I will not expand here, I feel like SE is overestimating their power here. They're like the step-father who says he'll send his wife's child to their room, but all he really wants is for that child to finally like him. Is SE really going to ban anyone? I think they're just happy there's anyone left to monitor. XD
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#12 Jan 20 2011 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
How long before "WTF why is SE banning me instead of fixing their horrible game? Whatever! I didn't like this game anyway!" posts?


When they start charging money
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#13 Jan 20 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Default
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Uryuu wrote:
fallout386 wrote:
How about people that use autohotkey script to make the windowed mode of the game full screen? Since SE didn't provide us with a full screen version of the game that doesn't crash when alt tabbed and the windowed version doesn't fit in the screen I have no choice. Guess I'll find out >_>


You may become collateral damage of overzealous banning, to be honest. However, I have a feeling that if you stop now, regardless of what you were doing, you will be safe. This announcement just screams "last warning" to me.


I use the same script, how could they tell it is running?

I dont see it giving me an unfair advantage, I crash when i do anything in the game same as most people.

Edited, Jan 20th 2011 6:03pm by Seventhblood
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#14 Jan 20 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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They can't detect anything unless it is recorded on server logs. It will not be recorded as long as it does not alter any variable(s) preset by the server.

Botting is different in that they have to monitor each individual that has been reported by someone on a case by case basis for unusual pattern behavior. If you aren't reported, you won't be caught.

So as long as you don't speed hack, teleport, and other things that require altering the server you have nothing to worry about. With botters it is only a matter of time, but those that are smart and use it in isolated areas greatly reduces their chances of being spot and reported.
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#15 Jan 20 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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this is great, now they need to check the records of all rank 50 players and start taking messures with those who got a free ride.

the community on xi cared more about shunning socially those who botted, but on xiv it seems like the normal for many.
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#16 Jan 20 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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Uryuu wrote:
Here's SE's words in layman's terms:

To those of you who have been botting and/or cheating:
We know what you are doing, we have known for awhile. This is your last chance to stop, or you will be banned as soon as we compile the next STF report.


I'm only saying this because they actually went out and gave a warning for something that was illegal to begin with, but it sounds more like they're saying "you're forcing us to actually do something about this problem. Please stop on your own so we don't have to do that"
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#17 Jan 20 2011 at 5:28 PM Rating: Default
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Nerfs and talks of taking out RMT all in one week classic SE.
#18 Jan 20 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I doubt the effectiveness of this.

I'm sure the warp hackers will get banned but not the botters.

Why?
Because a lot of bots use keyboard presses to run them and some even read the pixels on the screen (as in what the client SEES, the same as what a player would) instead of reading packets.

The bots tend to send keyboard command presses to the game and as such can not be traced.

From a GM monitoring your character over a 20 second period (come on how can a GM really have time to watch you for 5+ hours?) tell the difference between playing on a controller on a couch with one hand while eating a pizza, or letting your 6 year old daughter play, or running a bot?

About all they can do is send you a tell, and almost all bots either force disconnect on a tell, which is not grounds for a ban or suspicion... there is no policy that you must reply to GMs. Or, they reply with stupid phrases like "Hello" and if you say Bot in a tell they basically quote the policy of "I'm sorry botting is illegal and i do not support it".

My point is, don't expect EXP bots or crafting bots to go anywhere.
What you should expect to see calm down are the flee hackers and teleport hackers. Yes there are a ton of those.

Getting rid of bots is a very tedious and troublesome process. Even 11 has plenty, I know Reject (Ryry) on Valefor/Fenrir has a bot running 24 hours a day, with 5 other bots in his party, all day long, all year round, for about 3 years. Never been suspended or banned, and I know people have called GMs on him. As a result he's got all jobs to 90, and all merits, and still has time to sell gil on playerauctions. (I've talked to the player when he was in a LS, he laughs at SEs ability to ban him because as I said above, they just can't prove it in terms of a bot).


In terms of how a court would hold it up, SE can not PROVE somebody is botting. They may show bot symptoms, but you can't PROVE they are exploiting. They COULD in theory be trading roommates at that coblyn camp all day. They could be sleep deprived and slow to respond with red eyes.


What you CAN prove is that somebody is moving at 400% movement speed without any buffs, or that someone is teleporting without anima. Or that someone is attempting to claim a mob before it's finished spawning yet something only a packet reader would know.
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#19 Jan 20 2011 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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As always with SE and their players botting/cheating, I won't believe they'll really take action until I see it. Good to hear this, but words mean nothing - actions mean everything.
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#20 Jan 20 2011 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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Generally speaking, most MMORPGS, and all big name MMORPGS, have a program that you agree to in the TOS that allows the game's developer to see what programs you have running in the background, and what they are doing. That is why glider had to run the game in a virtual drive setting on most of the games it was used for in order to avoid triggering said program (and its auto-report feature) on startup.

So yes, they can see the names of all programs that you have running while running XIV unless said program circumvents the triggering of their security measures, in which case they'd have to individually investigate, and once they see the security program isn't even activating for an account, they will begin the procedures to make sure it wasn't just a glitch in the system.
If anyone here played XI, I hope they remember how many people were auto-banned (some for false positives, most for using third party programs) by one of the big security updates.
#21 Jan 20 2011 at 5:52 PM Rating: Default
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Is there even a FFXIV windower yet?
#22 Jan 20 2011 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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There was one in production, however SE sicced their lawyers on them before it was even halfway finished.
http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=23431
#23 Jan 20 2011 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Uryuu wrote:
Generally speaking, most MMORPGS, and all big name MMORPGS, have a program that you agree to in the TOS that allows the game's developer to see what programs you have running in the background, and what they are doing. That is why glider had to run the game in a virtual drive setting on most of the games it was used for in order to avoid triggering said program (and its auto-report feature) on startup.

So yes, they can see the names of all programs that you have running while running XIV unless said program circumvents the triggering of their security measures, in which case they'd have to individually investigate, and once they see the security program isn't even activating for an account, they will begin the procedures to make sure it wasn't just a glitch in the system.
If anyone here played XI, I hope they remember how many people were auto-banned (some for false positives, most for using third party programs) by one of the big security updates.

That's actually not true.

Only WoW and FFXI have that. There was a huge uproar and anti WoW movement when people found out about the Warden, and how it scanned your emails, browsing history, pictures, and uploaded detailed info to blizzard.

Square-Enix, according to hackers and people who scanned the game, included that in the ToS but never implemented it (you know what packets are being sent). The people who were auto banned were usually people -claiming- to be legit but also running FFXIApp and some less than fair windower plugins. Square Enix definitely has a thing against plugins like Infobar and Spellcast. When your calling out the HP of Dark Ixion without breaking his horn, they know you're haxxing.


Edit:
Also, most people who use 3rd party tools rename the .exe of the program so that in memory its not saying FFXIApp.exe but rather something like Outlook.exe

Edited, Jan 20th 2011 7:34pm by Eadieni
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#24 Jan 20 2011 at 6:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eadieni wrote:
Uryuu wrote:
Generally speaking, most MMORPGS, and all big name MMORPGS, have a program that you agree to in the TOS that allows the game's developer to see what programs you have running in the background, and what they are doing. That is why glider had to run the game in a virtual drive setting on most of the games it was used for in order to avoid triggering said program (and its auto-report feature) on startup.

So yes, they can see the names of all programs that you have running while running XIV unless said program circumvents the triggering of their security measures, in which case they'd have to individually investigate, and once they see the security program isn't even activating for an account, they will begin the procedures to make sure it wasn't just a glitch in the system.
If anyone here played XI, I hope they remember how many people were auto-banned (some for false positives, most for using third party programs) by one of the big security updates.

That's actually not true.

Only WoW and FFXI have that. There was a huge uproar and anti WoW movement when people found out about the Warden, and how it scanned your emails, browsing history, pictures, and uploaded detailed info to blizzard.

Square-Enix, according to hackers and people who scanned the game, included that in the ToS but never implemented it (you know what packets are being sent). The people who were auto banned were usually people -claiming- to be legit but also running FFXIApp and some less than fair windower plugins. Square Enix definitely has a thing against plugins like Infobar and Spellcast. When your calling out the HP of Dark Ixion without breaking his horn, they know you're haxxing.


Edit:
Also, most people who use 3rd party tools rename the .exe of the program so that in memory its not saying FFXIApp.exe but rather something like Outlook.exe

Edited, Jan 20th 2011 7:34pm by Eadieni


Script kiddies are the worst kind of cheaters. It's one thing to write your own **** to do it, at least that requires a degree of skill. It's another to take someone else's **** and use it to cheat without even understanding how it works.

I mean, honestly... I'd be half tempted myself to write some sort of bot that will randomly spam /sh with "I'm a cheating *******" and then distribute it.

And then it starts downloading horse ****.
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#25wrongfeifong, Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 7:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If people bots, it is because they are forced to.
#26 Jan 20 2011 at 7:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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wrongfeifong wrote:
If people bots, it is because they are forced to.


This is such a bullsh*t excuse. If you aren't going to play the game fairly then don't play it at all. You don't show up to a footrace with a car because "Running is too much work".

You either knew what you signed up for when you started or you figure it out quickly. If you don't like it, do something else. Don't try to use "They forced me to" as an excuse to get out of playing the game the right way.

Edited, Jan 20th 2011 8:31pm by Mikhalia
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#27 Jan 20 2011 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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wrongfeifong...did you just say "forced to bot"?
Seriously, what is wrong with you, man?! The only ones "forced" to bot, in any manner of thinking possible, are RMT...
As the majority of SE's customers have demonstrated, when you don't enjoy a game, you quit. You don't buy a program to play for you or pay someone to play for you. You just quit the game altogether.
#28 Jan 20 2011 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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Can SE even afford to start banning people?
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#29 Jan 20 2011 at 7:35 PM Rating: Good
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Shredmastah wrote:
Can SE even afford to start banning people?

Banning= more box sales from the cheaters they ban. Seems like a good idea to me.
Not like anyone's being charged a monthly fee or anything, ya know? ^^



Edited, Jan 20th 2011 7:40pm by Uryuu
#30 Jan 20 2011 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
wrongfeifong wrote:
If people bots, it is because they are forced to.


This is such a bullsh*t excuse. If you aren't going to play the game fairly then don't play it at all. You don't show up to a footrace with a car because "Running is too much work".

You either knew what you signed up for when you started or you figure it out quickly. If you don't like it, do something else. Don't try to use "They forced me to" as an excuse to get out of playing the game the right way.


Seriously; all you pro-botters need to go back to your horse **** (I've heard that some bots require it).
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#31 Jan 20 2011 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Makes me sad that windowers are against the TOS.. Their client is pretty poor for running multi-monitor setups.
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#32 Jan 20 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Tankue wrote:
Makes me sad that windowers are against the TOS.. Their client is pretty poor.


Fixed.
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#33 Jan 20 2011 at 7:50 PM Rating: Default
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Maybe this was aimed towards the people using YG ;)
#34 Jan 20 2011 at 8:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uryuu wrote:
wrongfeifong...did you just say "forced to bot"?
Seriously, what is wrong with you, man?! The only ones "forced" to bot, in any manner of thinking possible, are RMT...
As the majority of SE's customers have demonstrated, when you don't enjoy a game, you quit. You don't buy a program to play for you or pay someone to play for you. You just quit the game altogether.


Seriously. I always laughed at people who said things along the lines of how they were forced to bot in FFXI in order to compete with other LSs
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#35 Jan 20 2011 at 8:31 PM Rating: Default
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lol, this is great XD
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#36 Jan 20 2011 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
Seriously. I always laughed at people who said things along the lines of how they were forced to bot in FFXI in order to compete with other LSs

Well, finally giving in and botting faf after not being able to claim it legitimately has another layer to it compared to what this idiot here is saying.. Not that I'd condone it; in my opinion anyone who bots doesn't deserve to play.
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#37 Jan 20 2011 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Only time its ok to bot is if your in a third world country and a RMT cartell is threatening your family ,but you should feel really bad about it!
#38 Jan 20 2011 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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This first link gives the decision of the Ninth US Circuit Court of Appeals on the Blizzard v. MDY.



Second link is to the Ninth US Circuit Court of Appeals web site, case number 09-15932 in Advanced search to find the ruling for those who want to read it.

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#39 Jan 21 2011 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh they definitely go after the bot makers.
Usually the botters themselves are fine unless they make it overly obvious they are using tools.

The websites get shut down though with legal force in time. Just depends when it makes it on SEs radar, and how high it is on their priority

Remember: Theres probably a bunch of japanese bots you don't know about that SE is getting rid of that take priority over some of the ones you may be aware of.
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#40 Jan 21 2011 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
wrongfeifong wrote:
If people bots, it is because they are forced to.


This is such a bullsh*t excuse. If you aren't going to play the game fairly then don't play it at all. You don't show up to a footrace with a car because "Running is too much work".

You either knew what you signed up for when you started or you figure it out quickly. If you don't like it, do something else. Don't try to use "They forced me to" as an excuse to get out of playing the game the right way.


Seriously; all you pro-botters need to go back to your horse **** (I've heard that some bots require it).
Being "forced to boot" is nothing but a serious symptom of e-impotency, be aware the next thing you know is that your e-peen is not the same anymore.

By the way is horse **** a really strange analogy of death mule? I'm after that you gotta beat the mule for it to die, don't you? I mean both are Equidae right? and... bah never mind... it wasn't funny after all.

Ken
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#41 Jan 21 2011 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Script kiddies are the worst kind of cheaters. It's one thing to write your own sh*t to do it, at least that requires a degree of skill. It's another to take someone else's sh*t and use it to cheat without even understanding how it works.

I mean, honestly... I'd be half tempted myself to write some sort of bot that will randomly spam /sh with "I'm a cheating *******" and then distribute it.

And then it starts downloading horse ****.

The problem with this is that the people who do write 'legitimate cheats' (oxymoron?) are very quick to spot 'illegitimate cheats' (double negative?) because they are, in general, smarter than the average bear (and, by proxy of the bear's stomach, the average human) and quick to let others know about the situation.

The larger problem though, is you will get sued by both the people who download horseporn in their freetime because they'll start getting 'horseporn limit exceeded' from their favorite websites, as well as the horseporn website itself (from a surprisingly 'alive' Mr. Hands) because all of it's ads aren't getting through and so the horseporn server's bandwidth needs are no longer able to be met because sponsors are dropping. No one want's to see that happen to you, or to horseporn.

I can vouch for several applications that have done similar things though, even in FFXI (there were some variations of popular apps that would periodically shout that they were using cheats, hidden from the cheater's view). I can also assure you that a good share of the 'cheats' out there for any game, or any 'computer-software-related-exploit' for that matter, contain Trojans or infections of some kind or another. There are even major companies that purposely release cracks to their own programs with 'generally-non-malicious' spy-ware because they know the audience looking for those applications are generally not 'buyers' anyhow, so they may as well make some money by collecting/using/selling marketing data on you. 'Fairness' is largely based on perspective, I suppose ^^.
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