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The FFXIV NGE is ComingFollow

#1 Jan 21 2011 at 1:08 PM Rating: Default
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I've been reading the lodestone information and have tried to mash it up with what has previously been said and then read between the lines. It looks like the new development team has some serious stones, and I think they are going to do a full NGE of this game. Given that, the only promise that we have is that they will not do character wipes. How do I think they will pull this off? It is simple, really.

What we know:
- They want more job differentiation
- They want more content
- They are looking at introducing classic FF jobs
- They are looking at changing how levels and ranks work
- They are looking to change skills

There is only one real way to accomplish all this without a character wipe: a full NGE.

What I think will happen is that everything that we are leveling now (aside from hand/land) are simply going to be the FFXIV version of subjobs. These will also be the introductory classes for new players (similar to the six classes in FFXI). When a player gets one of these to a certain level, they will have the option to do an advanced class quest similar to those in FFXI and gain the ability to level an advanced job.

This is where the job system will fundamentally change from where it is now. An advanced job will have a set weapon selection (such as swords, shields, greatswords for paladin) that has no respect to anything except that specific job. Each job will then have either a set amount of AP or one that scales by job level so that they can use these slots to pick and choose skills from their leveled war/magic subjobs to form their own custom subjob for that class.

In doing this there are probably going to be a number of skills that get extremely nerfed (punishing barbs?) or might even disappear altogether (ancient magic would be removed to BLM, etc). They will also undoubtably shorten the SP curve to make leveling the disciple jobs much easier. In doing this it makes the work we currently have in the game meaningful and preperatory for the "next stage", but also allows a customizable job system like in FFXI without the pitfalls that game faced.

The beauty of a system like this is that it corrects the broken subjob system of FFXI in that it doesn't force players to pick one of the "mandatory" subjobs for any given primary (i.e. no more /NIN situations). It also allows them to really differentiate the advanced jobs without having to worry about what that will do with subjob situations (i.e. no more /NIN situations). Having similar skills between the war jobs now allows a player to custom tailor their job to match their personal flavor (circle slash vs. brandish? red lotus vs. trunksplitter?) and keeps player customability high. This system would also fix the current system's inevitable dead-end: how many more weapons can they add in without it becoming little more than a palette swap? Right now there is little difference between the classes, how bad would it be if they added in another half dozen weapons?

This system would be a real coup on their part: they get to NGE the game in a way that doesn't break anything the players have achieved to that point, they get to introduce a tremendous amount of content to the game without a whole lot of deep development time, it meets many of the demands that players have given to date (regarding class differentiation and whatnot), and it is something that the majority of players would probably accept gladly. Furthermore, it allows them to make a massive PR push as if it was an entirely new game ... and good PR from that would help reel in new and prior players to see what all the fuss is about. Without an event like that, this game is probably going to fail: lets not kid ourselves any longer. S-E is bleeding right now keeping its full development team running while the game is seeing low sales and no monthly income.

I suppose the way to tell if this is going to be coming down the pipe would be for them to extend the 1-20 SP curve (ease of leveling) all the way through 50. This massive nerf will probably come a couple months before the NGE hits to keep the current players in the game while they implement the NGE. You'll probably see the PS3 port hit the shelves three months after this riding on the PR wave. Further, my guess is that while it may take, say, level 30 in a disciple job to unlock an advanced job, the advanced jobs will probably start at a higher level (in the 15-20 range) to prevent flooding of newbie zones and they will probably have the same level curve that our current disciple classes have. Even though they will be harder to level in terms of SP, though, they'll be easier to level at each stage since their abilities will be more powerful than the generic war/magic ones and will be much more geared toward party play. Disciple jobs will be easy to level and allow casuals to see endgame, while advanced jobs are more hardcore and fully unlock the game's content.

Other thoughts: the stat allocation will probably be for disciples only (subjobs). The primary jobs almost undoubtably will have set stats. The physical level system will also, accordingly, be for disciples only to assist in leveling those to later support your advanced job(s).

My crystal ball just went dark ... anyone think this scenario is unlikely?
#2 Jan 21 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Well considering the last question on the poll was this and the response it got,

11. Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?


JP NA GB FR DE
Yes 82.0% 91.1% 89.5% 55.0% 65.5%
No 18.0% 8.9% 10.5% 45.0% 34.5%


Its a strong possibility, either way I'm taking a short break from ffxiv to work on school and other stuff and will wait to see the changes implemented.
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#3 Jan 21 2011 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
In doing this there are probably going to be a number of skills that get extremely nerfed (punishing barbs?) or might even disappear altogether (ancient magic would be removed to BLM, etc). They will also undoubtably shorten the SP curve to make leveling the disciple jobs much easier. In doing this it makes the work we currently have in the game meaningful and preperatory for the "next stage", but also allows a customizable job system like in FFXI without the pitfalls that game faced.



Explain the pitfalls in more depth please.
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#4 Jan 21 2011 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Did you read the planned updates?

They are not doing a full NGE

what it sounds like is happening is a completely overhaul of the combat system itself
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#5 Jan 21 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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One very very interesting thing, and something that I'm very glad to see, is that it seems like in most places, the JP opinion and NA opinion were very close to each other. There weren't many spaces where the JP heavily favored one option where the NA players heavily favored another. I was worried about such a possibility because I am pretty confident that it came down to them either giving the JPs what they want or giving the NAs what they want, they'd probably go with the JP.

I'm pleased to see that there is a common consensus across east and west about what needs to be done. It makes it that much easier for the devs to say "everyone wants this" and do it.
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#6 Jan 21 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I should fully read posts before posting.... thats alot of text to say " ya if they do this it will be awesome... kinda, but yes... sorta!"

Edited, Jan 21st 2011 2:21pm by BriktheImmortal
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#7 Jan 21 2011 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Time to make a character named Asuka.
#8 Jan 21 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I left my tinfoil hat at home. Sorry.
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#9 Jan 21 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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People shouldn't be afraid of a NGE.

The NGE actually wasn't bad for SWG, NEW players loved it. Only the originals hated it and overreacted.

However, in a game thats lost (to my estimate based on what I know i've seen) 85%+ of its -active- population, with hundreds of forum threads begging for FFXI-2 ... it doesn't sound like a bad thing.

Without a character wipe, you wont lose anything, but you may have to reassign stuff. If they change classes around you may get to redistribute levels or something, who knows.

NGE killed SWG because of 2 things though, they chose the wrong options, namely making the epic quest prize available to all players (Jedi class), and because they marketed to a crowd of people different from those who already played.

SE on the other hand, is marketing to players who already play, and played 11, as is shown by the forums here. It will be like SWGs NGE if they let us become our favorite FF characters and turn it into Dissidia the MMO where we're all Sephiroth and Yuna and Lightning and Locke and Warrior of Light instead of our own chars.

The game is functioning but not good by anyones grade, and making it into a whole new game experience, keeping the graphics, and the tools we consider crucial to a final fantasy title, then why fear it? What's wrong with real job roles instead of broad ones? What's wrong with Summons and Great Swords and other things we consider final fantasy? And quests!?!

I personally welcome things like Jump, because I hate getting stuck on 2 inch walls. Not because I want to jump around you in a circle, but because walls suck :D





Edited, Jan 21st 2011 2:43pm by Eadieni
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#10 Jan 21 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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While the end result may be a "NGE", the difference between this and what happened to Star Wars Galaxies is that these changes are going to be implemented steadily over a course of time rather than all bundled up in one package. Also, it appears Yoshi-P is going to be very vocal about the upcoming changes, also unlike the Star Wars NGE. Finally, this is going to occur in the early stages of FFXIV, unlike Star Wars which developed a healthy niche before the NGE.

So while the acronym NGE has a bad connotation in regards to the Star Wars NGE, I would be very surprised if a FFXIV "NGE" doesn't drastically improve the game.
#11 Jan 21 2011 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eadieni wrote:
SE on the other hand, is marketing to players who already play, and played 11, as is shown by the forums here. It will be like SWGs NGE if they let us become our favorite FF characters and turn it into Dissidia the MMO where we're all Sephiroth and Yuna and Lightning and Locke and Warrior of Light instead of our own chars.


If there is anything they could do to ruin the game, it would be this.
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#12 Jan 21 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Eadieni wrote:
SE on the other hand, is marketing to players who already play, and played 11, as is shown by the forums here. It will be like SWGs NGE if they let us become our favorite FF characters and turn it into Dissidia the MMO where we're all Sephiroth and Yuna and Lightning and Locke and Warrior of Light instead of our own chars.


If there is anything they could do to ruin the game, it would be this.


Agreed. The spin off games make me cringe. My relationship with SE would unfortunately come to an end.
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#13 Jan 21 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Default
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I will be quitting when they do these changes. Yes they are completely destroying xiv for a wow-xi hybrid to make the qqers happy. Well they lost me as a player.
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#14 Jan 21 2011 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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thehellfire wrote:
I will be quitting when they do these changes. Yes they are completely destroying xiv for a wow-xi hybrid to make the qqers happy. Well they lost me as a player.

Losing someone with a max level of 21?

Ok ... well for as much as you like the original system you dont have more than 5 hours of playtime on your main job since it takes 1 hour to get ot 10, another to get to 15, and another 1-2 to get to 20.


You don't know how much people HATE it past 35. This game NEEDS this patch and if you want things to stay the way they are, and you don't want these changes, then feel free to leave.
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#15 Jan 21 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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Huzzah for getting karma slammed.

The pitfalls I referred to in the FFXI subjob system were that any job-defining skill must either be placed in the late game (after the point where it could subbed by another job) or must otherwise be manipulated so that it isn't as good when subbed. Even still, if it is a job-defining feature, it could cause it to become mandatory or gamebreaking.

The classic example is /NIN. Shadows were so valuable that for a while it became the default subjob for nearly every melee class and even many mages used it. Dual wield made this subjob even more popular. For the most part, the subjob system turned into the following: /WAR for tanks (or /NIN for WARs), /WHM for support jobs that don't have native heals, /BLM for support jobs that have native heals, /NIN for one-handed melee, and /WAR, /SAM, or /NIN for two-handers. With WotG things got more complex with /SCH, /DNC, and the buffing of two-handed weapons, but things still boiled down to the following statement:

All jobs had near mandatory subjobs and there was little room for variation ... assuming you wanted to actually get a party.

To examine the workarounds needed to avoid breakdowns in the subjob system, look at what RDMs have to go through prior to 40: you have a weak WHM/BLM/WAR hybrid that can function crappily in any of those roles. The reason they didn't get convert or refresh (their job defining skills) prior to this point is that the developers wanted to prevent it from being subbed to another job later on, largely removing the need for RDMs later in the game (why bring more than one RDM [debuffs] to an alliance if you could bring a WHM/RDM that could refresh and heal better or a BLM/RDM that could refresh and nuke better instead?). Thieves got the other end of this stick: their job defining combat skills were at 15 and 30, so if you needed hate control later in the game you could bring a DRK/THF or SAM/THF instead and get more overall DPS added to your group as well, invalidating the need for them to do anything except stand around and provide TH#.

A system in which the subjobs were unrelated to the primaries and that you could pick and choose individual skills rather than entire skillsets ("Dual Wield II" as opposed to /NIN, for example) would allow for a greater variety of customization for the players and allow them to tailor their character to the player's whim more easily. While there surely would be min-maxing and cookie cutter builds, the near duplication of skill types between disciples would allow for quite a bit of wiggle room for the player. Further, since the skills of the advanced jobs would not be open to being subbed to something else, they could really open up diverging paths for the jobs that would make them shine in comparison to each other. You could have a ninja class that could use shadows without having to then worry about every other class in the game blinking as well. The milquetoast and cookie cutter skillsets of the current jobs is nothing but a reflection of S-E's effort to prevent /NIN from ever happening again.

As it stands now there is no way for them to implement job archetypes familiar to final fantasy games and fit it into the current framework. Imagine trying to introduce any kind of bard or minstrel ... would each song be an AP skill? How would you sub that? Would a lancer start stroking the song out on his spear? How would a summoner work? How would a beastmaster type class work? If taming was a skill, why not just tag that skill to a different class? To make a long story short, the current system is an absolute dead-end in expanding the style of play to different classes in any meaningful way and utterly blocks the introduction of thematic elements many people find essential to the concept of a final fantasy game. I think the new development team understands these things, and given that 80% of their polled players basically asked for a NGE it is likely they will provide one to prevent what appears currently to be the inevitable death of the game.
#16 Jan 21 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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From what I read, this isn't going to be anything close to a NGE.
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#17 Jan 21 2011 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
From what I read, this isn't going to be anything close to a NGE.


There will be game enhancements though. And they will be new. Whether that leads to a different experience remains to be seen. :P
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#18 Jan 21 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I see you just took your jobs out of your sig but that doesn't change the fact you haven't played this game enough to see how crappy it really is, instead of seeing how awesome it could be with this update.

Your going to get karma bombed here if you defend the system that caused this game to lose 9 out of 10 players.
Those that stay, stay because they want this update. Then theres someone like you, out on an island by themselves saying things are fine the way they are...

Normally don't point stuff like this out but seriously wtf, we waited since August to hear about this level of update and your like "zomg i wanna quit cuz they fixing the brokenness!!!"
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#19 Jan 21 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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I think they're trying to make the game fun, so technically that will be a New Game Experience.

I really wish Yoshi would have been in charge from day 1. He seems to know how to make an MMO.
#20 Jan 21 2011 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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Eadieni wrote:
Normally don't point stuff like this out but seriously wtf, we waited since August to hear about this level of update and your like "zomg i wanna quit cuz they fixing the brokenness!!!"


Don't you understand?! They're making it into a WoW-FFXI hybrid ********** I don't ******* know. THEY JUST ARE! *harumph*
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#21 Jan 21 2011 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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I think this might be the best Friday thread I have read in a while.

I figured the good news would have drowned out a Friday post, yeah, I gotta say it was almost believable.
#22 Jan 21 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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If the game get NGE then I welcome it not like this game been out for year's it been out a few month's better now then way down the road imo...
#23 Jan 21 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Quanta wrote:
Eadieni wrote:
Normally don't point stuff like this out but seriously wtf, we waited since August to hear about this level of update and your like "zomg i wanna quit cuz they fixing the brokenness!!!"


Don't you understand?! They're making it into a WoW-FFXI hybrid by...sh*t, I don't @#%^ing know. THEY JUST ARE! *harumph*

Well lol ... Lets dissect that a bit.
WoW is the #1 game of all time with the highest revenue ever in recorded history and the largest non-zygna online game (as in non facebook).

It has very well made systems with a lot of research and player feedback and generally work well, such as dungeon instances and party finders as well as rewarding gear opportunities.
A solo game until level 85.



FFXI was the most fun MMO ever created with 20 unique classes (not counting crafters!), an engaging storyline, beautiful music, amazing (ps2 era) graphics and a great community where reputation mattered. With extremely difficult boss fights, no solo capabilities, and chocobos

Contrast those two games with FFXIV a solo-only game that punishes grouping, according to a Youtube video was endorsed by Hitler [/joke], with good graphics but a unfinished storyline with no content, 8 quests on a 36 hour timer, an amazing theme song by Susan Calloway, broken and unbalanced classes that all seem similar, and has extreme lag and no sense of accomplishment or reward.

So his logic is that FFXI + WoW = Bad, but FFXIV = good, but I'll argue that WoW + FFXI + FFXIV = Win.

As long as you remove the bad parts from all 3, and keep the good parts ... I dunno people have this notion that if WoW did it, it's automatically evil and bad.

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#24 Jan 21 2011 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
I think they're trying to make the game fun, so technically that will be a New Game Experience.

I really wish Yoshi would have been in charge from day 1. He seems to know how to make an MMO.


Relevant video.

Yoshi loves you. Don't be Mario.
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#25 Jan 21 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I really don't mean NGE as a bad thing. Some people are honestly having fun right now, but most people are simply treading water and hoping that things get better. I'm actually in that boat myself: I play now and then because it is free, but if I had to pay, I wouldn't. In fact, that S-E is keeping this free to play was the most genius thing they've done so far, because I suspect that if they hadn't done so the game would have completely collapsed around the end of month 2.

I hope for a NGE, whether it is an idea like what I described above or something else entirely different. What I did was merely pick apart the statements they've made and tried to predict what they're going to do by what they said they're planning and what they're promising not to do. These are the statements I'm making my prediction off of:

Lodestone Information:

Further changes to enhance class uniqueness ...
Possible introduction of traditional names such as paladin, monk, white mage, etc. ...
Improvements to skill point acquisition for parties ...
"I believe that significant changes to the battle system are necessary to create a style of combat that lends itself to the enjoyment of quests and miniquests." ...
"You expressed concern over whether one of the four keywords I introduced at the beginning of the year, namely reboot, meant that we would be wiping character data. I apologize for any confusion that this choice of terminology may have caused, but rest assured that character data will not be wiped." ...

Some of the other statements I was going off of were interviews where they talked about changing the structure of how ranks and levels worked. I may be off base completely with my prediction ... I guess the point of making the thread was a "what if?" experiment to see what other people are thinking is coming. I am in a large and active linkshell at the moment and what I outlined are many of the suspicions we have at the moment. I simply can't see them trying to keep the current system largely intact, particularly since the overwhelming majority of players told them to do otherwise.

I think it is far more likely that they will do a character wipe and complete reboot of all fundamental systems than they are to just leave things as they are with minor changes here and there. No business is going to keep on throwing money into a black hole forever. They're either going to do something dramatic or pull the plug. Since this is S-E we're talking about and pulling the plug would cause them to lose face on an epic scale ....
#26 Jan 21 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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airspirit wrote:
stuff



its great to speculate on ideas, but i found your post to be full of a little too much "they're probably gonna do this" and "you're probably gonna see this" and just a lot of "this is how its going to be".

its just too soon to say. I like your idea though, at least at first glance (just woke up so not in full critical analysis mode)

wait:

Quote:
I think it is far more likely that they will do a character wipe and complete reboot of all fundamental systems than they are to just leave things as they are with minor changes here and there.



what the **** are you talking about? did you even read the lodestone post?



Edited, Jan 21st 2011 4:04pm by Llester
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#27 Jan 21 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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thehellfire wrote:
I will be quitting when they do these changes. Yes they are completely destroying xiv for a wow-xi hybrid to make the qqers happy. Well they lost me as a player.


When 91% of the NA and 82% of the JP polled say big changes are needed, yeah, changes are coming. You, by far, are in a very tiny, ever shrinking minority and if you want to take your toys from the sandbox, that's your choice.

But look on the bright side. Now you can go from White Knight to Hater and not even have to change your tune. Amazing.
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#28 Jan 21 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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The concept of a "New Game Experience" isn't good or bad in itself...

SWG didn't need one, but got in anyway, what was bad was that the NGE was worse than the Old Game Experience, hence the acronym NGE became evil...

I like playing FFXIV currently, but I'm 100% behind getting a NGE... unlike SWG, I think a NGE will most likely be better than the OGE.

That said, the only part I feel I cant be happy with unless they massively change the entire system, is the combat system... so if they overhaul that completely and just massively tweak everything else I'd probably be very happy.

Edited, Jan 21st 2011 4:04pm by phoenixcws
#29 Jan 21 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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thehellfire wrote:
I will be quitting when they do these changes. Yes they are completely destroying xiv for a wow-xi hybrid to make the qqers happy. Well they lost me as a player.



SE had a real tough choice. Lose YOU as a player(along with the 2 other guys), or lose everyone else as a player. Sounds like the ******* definition of a no-brainer to me.
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#30 Jan 21 2011 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:


wait:

Quote:
I think it is far more likely that they will do a character wipe and complete reboot of all fundamental systems than they are to just leave things as they are with minor changes here and there.


what the **** are you talking about? did you even read the lodestone post?

i]Edited, Jan 21st 2011 4:04pm by Llester [/i]


Yes, I did (I even quoted the relevant part). What I was saying was that from a business perspective, there is no way they'd keep walking down a road that leads to failure willingly when the customer base is begging them to change. Alot of people in this and other threads seem to think that they'll just make a few tweaks to the current systems, add a little bit of content here and there, plug in an auction house, and then call it a day. The current lead is promising dramatic changes based on an overwhelming request to do so, so I guess if you don't believe they're coming then you might as well not believe that he's not planning to do wipes either.

Imagine having to report to a shareholder conference that you're bleeding money and losing customers, and that your plan to turn it all around is to ignore what your customers are telling you. I can't imagine anyone being able to pull that off with their job intact. Big changes are coming, I guarantee it.
#31 Jan 21 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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airspirit wrote:
Big changes are coming, I guarantee it.


Screenshot


I feel dirty for posting Naruto though.
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#32 Jan 21 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

I feel dirty for posting Naruto though.

As you should be.

Reported.
#33 Jan 21 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quanta wrote:
Eadieni wrote:
Normally don't point stuff like this out but seriously wtf, we waited since August to hear about this level of update and your like "zomg i wanna quit cuz they fixing the brokenness!!!"


Don't you understand?! They're making it into a WoW-FFXI hybrid by...sh*t, I don't @#%^ing know. THEY JUST ARE! *harumph*



Ummm I don't think its going to be a wow/xi hybrid . . . . SE has a different vision and that is to take features that work than expand on it.

They tried something new and different, and clearly that did not work . . . . With the amount of stuff all current players here still from launch have seen the evolution. Some systems were fixed, while other remain broken.

Yoshi-p is creating a road plan to fix and create a new FF world with old school ff flavour. Being a JP development team and having JP influences and working off of a rich historical template, and taking elements from other successful MMO's is not creating a clone of other games but trying to make a unique game in an ever saturating environment.

I think Yoshida and team are going in the right direction and expanding the current world, and adjusting things as necessary. The battle system even I don't see SE actually completely wiping that and reworking it from scratch. My inclination is to believe by using updates and tweaks is how the battle system will evolve into an entirely new system based on UI and battle changes dictated by story content and group content. Once those changes begin to be implemented and we start seeing balance issues, then Se will start tooling and working the battle system. As well this being an MMO the next thing we have to look at the addition of jobs and the eventual increase in the level cap.

Even if the naming of the current classes changes this would be easily done for the DoW, but how would you rename the DoM? Look at Conj its whm and blm pushed into one class . . . Thaum is bloodmage and RDM in one class . . .
for the class system to be modified that much just for those two classes would mean almost to break them up into four separate classes and would put a lot of players out who enjoyed or do enjoy being healer and nuker at once from a conj perspective or a debuff/dot and blood tank/heal in the case for thaum.

DoW needs animations that separate them and their abilities more then anything. Looking MRD it is an axe based class that should be putting big dmg numbers down with the occasional ability to sub tank if the situation arises. Making the weapon look massive and have animations that really add weight and power to MRD actions would separate it immensely from the other dps jobs. LNC would need a more agile look and fell and PUG needs more speed and weight to its punches. GLD has its role fairly firmly set as the main meatshield in this game hands down and I firmly believe the weapon skill animations need to be more variable as to what we have now.


Looking at the jobs over all I believe they have their main priorities in battle fairly set. Gear differentiation would also help in allowing the player to adequately distinguish each class far better and give a solid visual qeue as to which job any given player is looking with out having to examine each individual.

These are just my observations and thoughts. I do welcome those to offer their insights because I think as the battle system evolves with content is going to make or break what the dev team has lined up for us players.

I have been enjoying all the speculation and thoughts people have please keep them coming :)
#34 Jan 21 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
I think they're trying to make the game fun, so technically that will be a New Game Experience.

I really wish Yoshi would have been in charge from day 1. He seems to know how to make an MMO.


Relevant video.

Yoshi loves you. Don't be Mario.



LOL thanks for sharing ^_^ I laughed so hard I think I scared my kiddo!
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#35 Jan 21 2011 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
airspirit wrote:
Big changes are coming, I guarantee it.


Screenshot


I feel dirty for posting Naruto though.


As you should Mik, as you should..
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#36 Jan 21 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I, for one, welcome our new NGE overlords.
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#37 Jan 21 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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I really hope they don't change the class system too much, before they introduce advanced classes. The advance classes in FFXI had more defined roles, very rarly and under special cirrstances would you ever see these classes being used as subs, how many subbed BRD, DRK, PLD, PUP, BLU, ect. NIN was the only adavnce class to be used as a sub consistantly.

The classes we currently have can be used as main and sub, they are more all purpose and generic. Like most vannilla classes in most mmos. I think people need to avoid rushing into changing things because they really don't understand how they work. When advanced classes make their way into the game, people will have the class definition they are looking for.

Lack of information about the game itself, has been the biggest downfall of this game. A classic example would be a recent thread on stats. What no one in that thread seemed to realize you could roll back your stats more than once.

Too many misconceptions about the game have gone on too long primarily due to not having enough information from the get go. Some people do need in depth information on mechanics, because they are just not patient enough to figure it out for themselves, or mechanics are to complex without understanding the variables involved, make it seem more harder than it really is.

I figured the UI would be the very first thing they would change. Hopefully they will make it user customizable and allow for UI addons. This is how to make everyone happy. This is why WoW's UI evolution has been successful.

I hope they leave crafting and gathering as classes, as this is truely unique if they follow through on an endgame for these roles. That right there would truely be FFXIVish, instead of WoWish and/or FFXIish.

I would be highly disappointed if FFXIV turned into another gear grind game, hopefully they will not completely loose sight of what makes a rpg a rpg, and stick with a broad endgame rather than shiny purples every 4 months.
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#38 Jan 21 2011 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Spyrit178 wrote:


I would be highly disappointed if FFXIV turned into another gear grind game, hopefully they will not completely loose sight of what makes a rpg a rpg, and stick with a broad endgame rather than shiny purples every 4 months.


I'd like it to stay that way too actually. While the grind for the new tier sets is fun while you're after it, it definitely fades once you get what you want. I do hope that as far as endgame gear is concerned that they lean toward the design diversity of the later expansions and stray from too much model recycling.

I do think set bonus style gear is cool though. Although it wouldn't be on the top of my priority list for the game.

Edited, Jan 21st 2011 5:13pm by Transmigration
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#39 Jan 21 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:


I would be highly disappointed if FFXIV turned into another gear grind game, hopefully they will not completely loose sight of what makes a rpg a rpg, and stick with a broad endgame rather than shiny purples every 4 months.


I'd like it to stay that way too actually. While the grind for the new tier sets is fun while you're after it, it definitely fades once you get what you want. I do hope that as far as endgame gear is concerned that they lean toward the design diversity of the later expansions and stray from too much model recycling.

I do think set bonus style gear is cool though. Although it wouldn't be on the top of my priority list for the game.

Edited, Jan 21st 2011 5:13pm by Transmigration

Agreed. Gear grind is lame. I prefer storyline grind like CoP to NM grind. Of course I say that being leader of a NM LS lol.
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#40 Jan 21 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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just so im clear-
i thought i read that they just plan on changing the current class names to classic FF class names. or do you guys think theyre going to devide up THM and CON into other classes giving us a whm, blm, and enfeebler (weird rdm?)
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#41 Jan 21 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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pixelpop wrote:
just so im clear-
i thought i read that they just plan on changing the current class names to classic FF class names. or do you guys think theyre going to devide up THM and CON into other classes giving us a whm, blm, and enfeebler (weird rdm?)


He said nothing of switching the entire class, only that there will be big overhauls to skills and the names might be changed. Hard to really say for sure, all we can do is speculate.

Edited, Jan 21st 2011 5:23pm by Transmigration
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#42 Jan 21 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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pixelpop wrote:
just so im clear-
i thought i read that they just plan on changing the current class names to classic FF class names. or do you guys think theyre going to devide up THM and CON into other classes giving us a whm, blm, and enfeebler (weird rdm?)


Some classes might be renamed while others are left alone. It would be easier to call Pugilist a Monk and Archer a Ranger (although I think Archer is fine tbh; Tactics used Archer IIRC). Lancer could be Dragoon (it doesn't need a Wyvern; FFXIV's Kain or FF9's Freya didn't have one) or it could stay Lancer (FFT called it that). Marauder would be a decent candidate for Warrior. Gladiator could too but I'm not sure.

Thaumaturge and Conjurer are too hybrid between BLM, WHM, and RDM to easily call them one or the other without making massive changes to their spell list, which I think is a bad idea.
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#43 Jan 21 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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thehellfire wrote:
I will be quitting when they do these changes. Yes they are completely destroying xiv for a wow-xi hybrid to make the qqers happy. Well they lost me as a player.


Why don't you give it all a try before deciding that?
#44 Jan 21 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It would be easier to call Pugilist a Monk


Frankly, PUG isn't like a Monk with it's evasion and other thief-esque abilities.

I don't really know how they can do this without greatly altering our skill and spell lists.
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#45 Jan 21 2011 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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#46 Jan 21 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't mind renaming Pugilist to Monk just so I don't have to hear people mispronounce the word Pugilist anymore.
#47 Jan 21 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
I really hope they don't change the class system too much, before they introduce advanced classes. The advance classes in FFXI had more defined roles, very rarly and under special cirrstances would you ever see these classes being used as subs, how many subbed BRD, DRK, PLD, PUP, BLU, ect. NIN was the only adavnce class to be used as a sub consistantly.


/DNC, /SCH, /BST, /DRK, /BLU (and probly others) say hi.

I have to disagree with more of what you said, specifically your point that lack of info about the game was its downfall, which is ridiculous. A whole slew of things contributed to this failure, but lack of info on how to get frustrated by poor gameplay mechanics is not at the top of that list.

Go ahead and read up on the game mechanics; understanding how they work wont make them more fun. or make them work.

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#48 Jan 21 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
I wouldn't mind renaming Pugilist to Monk just so I don't have to hear people mispronounce the word Pugilist anymore.


THIS x 1 bazillion.


it really annoyed me to watch a certain host from a certain XIV themed podcast that is now cancelled, mispronounce that word. I mean...come on. Don't you like...read books and stuff?
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#49 Jan 21 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
It would be easier to call Pugilist a Monk


Frankly, PUG isn't like a Monk with it's evasion and other thief-esque abilities.

I don't really know how they can do this without greatly altering our skill and spell lists.


Frankly you don't know what you're talking about.

Monk in XI anyway, had the 3rd highest eva in the game, second only to thf and nin (actually 4th highest since dnc was added. still.)

and by thief-esque abilities i guess you are referring to Blindside. k. yeah. no.
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#50 Jan 21 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
pixelpop wrote:
just so im clear-
i thought i read that they just plan on changing the current class names to classic FF class names. or do you guys think theyre going to devide up THM and CON into other classes giving us a whm, blm, and enfeebler (weird rdm?)


Some classes might be renamed while others are left alone. It would be easier to call Pugilist a Monk and Archer a Ranger (although I think Archer is fine tbh; Tactics used Archer IIRC). Lancer could be Dragoon (it doesn't need a Wyvern; FFXIV's Kain or FF9's Freya didn't have one) or it could stay Lancer (FFT called it that). Marauder would be a decent candidate for Warrior. Gladiator could too but I'm not sure.

Thaumaturge and Conjurer are too hybrid between BLM, WHM, and RDM to easily call them one or the other without making massive changes to their spell list, which I think is a bad idea.

I'm hoping they make a quest to obtain a dragon and switch the name to dragoon then ^^
#51 Jan 21 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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airspirit wrote:
Huzzah for getting karma slammed.


The official forums are coming, and then the "silent dissenters" will have no choice but to voice their flimsy arguments or not be heard at all.
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