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Ask the Devs! (01/24/2011)Follow

#1 Jan 24 2011 at 4:41 AM Rating: Good
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Ask the Devs! (01/24/2011)


Markets and Me
Q.

The Market areas seem to be quite unstable. Is anything being done to fix the problem?
A.

We are fully aware of the inconvenience caused by frequent crashes occurring in these areas, and offer our sincerest apologies. We have made alleviating this issue our top priority, and currently have a team working on a solution.
Q.

What type of changes/adjustments can we expect for the Markets in the near future?
A.

Our immediate focus is to ensure players can easily and efficiently locate the items they seek, and have therefore been working on further improving the recently introduced item search feature. From there, we will proceed in revamping the Markets system, addressing issues such as stand functionality and the possible opening of auction houses.
Q.

Many players have chosen to sell their wares in the Middle Tailors Ward/Row/Den, causing these areas to fill up quickly with retainers. Will this issue be addressed?
A.

While only temporary measures until the market system is revamped, we currently have several fixes planned to address these issues, including area reformatting and an increase in the number of retainers that can be stationed in any single location.
Q.

When will players be able to hire more than two retainers?
A.

Currently, we intend to allow the hiring of additional retainers once all planned system changes have been executed. The ultimate date of implementation, however, may change depending on player response to the changes.


Edited, Jan 24th 2011 5:41am by namasy
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#2 Jan 24 2011 at 4:44 AM Rating: Good
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I like the AH part.
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#3 Jan 24 2011 at 4:44 AM Rating: Decent
Pls... no more retainers...
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#4 Jan 24 2011 at 4:49 AM Rating: Default
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Yes.
And kill off the old ones, while you are at it.
#5 Jan 24 2011 at 5:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think they can stop item search *Right Now* and begin to implement AH...

Since Moggles in Eorzea are not our butler anymore, I need retainer to be my warehouse and postman.
They don't need to worry about no one use retainer anymore...
Actually I paid extra 100yen*7 for warehouse character while I was in FFXI....
I *WILL* pay the same for extra 7 retainer. ;)

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#6 Jan 24 2011 at 5:19 AM Rating: Default
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I like the responses in this thread so far. :P
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#7 Jan 24 2011 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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I find it silly that they themselves have been increasingly mentioning an AH yet persist with the market wards.

My only thought on what seems like an intention to keep both is that the AH might work like a real auction and the highest bidder gets the item after a certain amount of time. Giving the market wards a continued purpose for quick sales.
#8 Jan 24 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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The reason they have persisted with the wards is because it can if done correctly be a better option than an AH. Unfortunately it should have been done the other way round, give us the simpler AH system first and then expand it with the retainer system and retainer quests.

People suggested retainer quests like

Gobbiebags to increase space
Random Items (like the special events)
Bartering and Tax Evasion

There is an endless supply of upgrades and introductions they could have for those retainers in the future. Offering them as Auction House options would not have any immersion at all.

I hope they bring us the auction house for the Ease of Use, but I also hope they continue to develop the Retainers to bring us the immersion that could become a standard for future MMO's
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#9 Jan 24 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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I personally am praying for an AH, as soon as possible.

The item search was a big improvement, but the fact is when you have more than one type of product to sell, you are inevitably going to sell things in the incorrect wards. As well as collecting items off your retainers when they are positioned in the wards, means you have to travel to whatever city the retainers are located in to access the items.

It is an irritating annoyance, that an AH would solve,as i could just place items in respective areas and forget about it. Then the retainers would just become used for storage
#10 Jan 24 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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As mentioned in other parts of the forum, hidden among bickering and the occasional coherent discussion, in the future I'm expecting an eventual balance between an auction house and the market wards. Using FFXI (as much as people hate it) as an example, if you're only allowed to sell so many items on the auction house, selling very expensive not easily sold items can potentially slow down the ability to sell items and make profits. I think this is an excellent way for the market wards to supplement an auction house.

For example (FFXI again sorry), having occasionally spent time in the infamous Rolanberry Field markets looking for hard to come by items not normally found in the auction house. One could only imagine how much nicer things would have been if there was a search function to let me quickly locate and compare prices on items being sold there. I think this is the eventual scenario we will end up with.

The auction house will be a place to easily and quickly sell items that are used frequently while rarer, more expensive, and less frequently sold items will be easily located in the market wards. Of course I could be wrong.
#11 Jan 24 2011 at 9:10 AM Rating: Default
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i hope they never add an AH. like listening to babes cry for their pacifiers, sweet music to my ears. in all honesty, i WAS for market wards and i still have faith in them to give crafters/farmers a more organic/fair market but as it stands right now, the only thing they can do is make market wards more like an ah. they should just add an ah and then progress from there. i really hope that they start to utilize the stalls they created and start to add in marketing (ex. advertising that you would like to buy x Imp Wings etc.). i see market wards kind of being a workshop for crafters, almost a behind the scenes area with UI to support a social community of crafters/gatherers/farmers and then the AH to be some place just to distribute finished goods.
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#12 Jan 24 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
babes cry for their pacifiers

Well, your babes may cry for pacifiers.
Mine usually cry for more.
#13 Jan 24 2011 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't understand why they insist on salvaging a system so broken when they can just replace it with something that actually works.
#14 Jan 24 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Is it just me? or just about everything is their top priority ? (the UI, the market ward, the combat system, new content). No wonder they can't get anything done.



Edited, Jan 24th 2011 11:06am by MrBarjavel
#15 Jan 24 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Dev team is insane, obviously.
#16 Jan 24 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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TempLoop wrote:
i hope they never add an AH. like listening to babes cry for their pacifiers, sweet music to my ears. in all honesty, i WAS for market wards and i still have faith in them to give crafters/farmers a more organic/fair market but as it stands right now, the only thing they can do is make market wards more like an ah. they should just add an ah and then progress from there. i really hope that they start to utilize the stalls they created and start to add in marketing (ex. advertising that you would like to buy x Imp Wings etc.). i see market wards kind of being a workshop for crafters, almost a behind the scenes area with UI to support a social community of crafters/gatherers/farmers and then the AH to be some place just to distribute finished goods.


The Wards are designed to be a market system that does not function on supply and demand. They will always be worse because of that.
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#17 Jan 24 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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Why not have both retainer and AH might as well. If they add this and its simular to ffxi then there is a tax on what you put up on the AH. Which in turn started people putting stuff up on there bazzars outside of town to advoid that tax. Then they removed the taxs pretty much and guess where the flock come to in town. If this is going to be simular in ffxiv with taxes then there will be people who will use retainers to sell there good's still. Just give more option on were you can put a retainer up in the world besides the market place add the AH then you the player have the option on how you want to shop in the game...
#18 Jan 24 2011 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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The concept they had was valid, and the balls they had to pioneer the idea and stick with it despite the uproar was admirable... However, the fact that they didn't finish it prior to launch was a blunder, it boils down to the fact that the game in general needed another year or two in development.

But there is one more major flaw in the wards system, one that's out of SE's hands, and that's the players. They figured that the wards would give crafters a chance to thrive, but all it does is the exact opposite...

The AH system in FFXI kept crafters on their toes. They had to adapt to the supply and demand driven selling system, and when supply surpassed demand, undercutting ensued, and they had to leave that particular market and find another. I was a crafter in ffxi, as were several of my friends and even my brother. We all did very well, amassing vast fortunes, and we did it despite the undercutting that everyone seems to think is so gamebreaking... It's not, it works, and it's supposed to exist. It's just simple supply and demand. The inept crafters who wanted to just craft 1 or 2 things, never adapt, never change, and mark simple easy no risk synths up for ridiculous amounts were destined to fail. They didn't fail because of the AH, or because of undercutting, they failed because they were terrible crafters,

Successful crafters made the games economy what it was. When markets got flooded, they moved on and made other things, catering to areas where the demand was there, but the supply wasn't, which made the people who needed the supply happy, and in turn was profitable for the people with the supply. Again, basic stuff here, but it worked.

Now, the wards is the exact opposite of a good idea. At launch, it placed an arbitrary, enormous burden on the buyer, because finding anything was so incredibly time consuming. Due to that, people often just bought things for far more than was fair, to save them the trouble of searching longer. That's bullsh*t. And worse, it caters to lazy greedy crafters who don't want to be creative, or fill the void where the demand is highest, or anything else that drives a good economy. They just sit there, spend 20k on cheap mats, make a little to no risk synth, and then price it at 200k-300k+. Normally nobody would buy from them, but since finding alternatives was such a pain in the ***, people bit the bullet and payed those prices.

Let supply and demand drive the market, and if the inept crafters aren't able to get rich off ******** people, boo hoo. The crafters that we want to have around will always be able to make a good profit, and they will supply all the things people need and want, and buy the things people farm to do so, which dolls out slices of the profit pie to yet more ppl, and everybody wins.

So yeah... An Auction House is the way to go. The wards may still have some potential in the high end or slow to sell areas, and perhaps for other things as well, such as beastcoins or w/e else can't be listed on the AH. But seriously, an AH makes buying as efficient as it can be, and the competitive environment for sellers keeps them from getting lazy, and shoots down their attempts to be too greedy most of the time, it just betters them overall.
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#19 Jan 24 2011 at 11:05 AM Rating: Default
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I thought their top priority was fixing the SP bonus on fishing leves?

This whole market ward / AH issue really seems trite in comparison to such a game breaking oversight as the SP gains during fishing leves. Get your priorities straight SE. If every dev working on FFXIV isn't dedicating 100% of their time and energy to fixing fishing leve's, I fear for the future of this game and the children of the world.
#20 Jan 24 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Default
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New bell emotes -> Festival gear -> some random stuff -> (...) -> (...) -> (...) -> core problems.

SE will not change its time-honored traditions just because of you.
#21 Jan 24 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Great... another post about retainers...

namasy wrote:
We have made alleviating this issue our top priority, and currently have a team working on a solution.


That's their top priority? With so many other things in dire need of attention, fixing the system that they say they say they're obsoleting with "the possible opening of auction houses" is their top priority?

I say they remove the team from this altogether and maybe implement a significant change everyone's been waiting for as the days, weeks, and months stretch on...
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#22 Jan 24 2011 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
fixing the system that they say they say they're obsoleting with "the possible opening of auction houses" is their top priority?


Sounds like to me that AH's will be a part of the Marketplace. I would go as far as to say that they will be physically located in the wards.

Its only the playerbase's idea that when AH is implemented, Marketplace is somehow deleted from existence. Retainers will not be obsoleted by AH either- did AH in XI obsolete the Mog House?
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#23 Jan 24 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
fixing the system that they say they say they're obsoleting with "the possible opening of auction houses" is their top priority?


Sounds like to me that AH's will be a part of the Marketplace. I would go as far as to say that they will be physically located in the wards.

Its only the playerbase's idea that when AH is implemented, Marketplace is somehow deleted from existence. Retainers will not be obsoleted by AH either- did AH in XI obsolete the Mog House?


Yes, because clearly you sold items from your Mog House.

Good to know you're still spouting stupid from all orifices.

Khaap wrote:
I hope they bring us the auction house for the Ease of Use, but I also hope they continue to develop the Retainers to bring us the immersion that could become a standard for future MMO's


What immersion? You didn't sell those items, an NPC did for you. That isn't immersion in any way, shape, or form.

Edited, Jan 24th 2011 1:29pm by StrijderVechter
#24 Jan 24 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Yes, because clearly you sold items from your Mog House.

Good to know you're still spouting stupid from all orifices.


So Retainers do everything that Moogles did, plus more, so an AH obsoletes Retainers completely instead of just a particular feature of retainers that moogles in XI didn't have?

It would really make me depressed if you got to rate me down even once though. Jebus.

Edited, Jan 24th 2011 9:44pm by Hyanmen
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#25 Jan 24 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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MrBarjavel wrote:
Is it just me? or just about everything is their top priority ? (the UI, the market ward, the combat system, new content). No wonder they can't get anything done.


I would assume...hope, that SE threw every spare body they have into the FFXIV dev teams. If they have any hope of getting things fixed/replaced/improved in the least amount of time. Speed is of the essence, for us and for them, considering how everybody waited so patiently for any scrap of news since November. -.-
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#26 Jan 24 2011 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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Hmmm why SE's reluctance on an AH in the first place ? hmmm... Below is what I was thinking, and why I'm seeing downside of an AH, or course I could be assuming the wrong thing all together ^^...

All these while I thought it was to prevent gil sellers of having it easy - Log in char, and browse items by talking to an NPC, browse few sets of items which they want to have control on, make purchase straight away, which 'could' be automated through 3rd party macros....means gil sellers do not need to waste any resource to do these tasks. Switch on a few machines and just let them run their own business... monopoly made easier.

But if there is the market ward system, players will need to navigate to the location of the seller, make the purchase by approaching the selling retainer, now I would like to think, it WILL be difficult to write up something to automate this action. Not impossible, but difficult, and can be easily crippled, once they notice this being a trend. Maybe SE was being too obsessive against these RMTs thus they made the market ward impossible to 'automate purchase' to the extent ******* off real buyers (pre-search).

From a gilseller point of view, if they needed to waste one person running here and there to make these purchases, they rather use the resource to do more rewarding tasks such as farming marmots? etc ^^; If the system is easy to exploit, and saves the cost, why not ?

I just feel that they can make a better ward system, at the same time not making it too much of a hassle for both seller and buyer.. how much more would you like the market ward if :-
- Make just one ward, a big one that basically fits everyone in, or make it a market street or something like that.. you still need to do some running around, but at least it's all about competing with another 'human' running to Point-X to buy that armor at 10gil, not against some coded macro doing repetitious bidding in front of AH, which you'll never win.

- The search should search across all cities, if out of current city, give a location/retainer name.

- Maybe include selling price of the item ?

ah well, I'm more of a come-what-may person but too many bots clogging up AH in FFXI last time was kinda annoying...
#27 Jan 24 2011 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
If it's some one on here whos ask the devs questions keep getting answered... Can you ask them about alt-tabbing and fullscreen ^.^
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#28 Jan 24 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
If it's some one on here whos ask the devs questions keep getting answered... Can you ask them about alt-tabbing and fullscreen ^.^


A thousand times this.

I can count on one hand the number of games I have played in the past 15 years that crash -every single time- you alt-tab out of fullscreen and FFXI and FFXIV take up two of those fingers.

Edited, Jan 24th 2011 4:14pm by Mikhalia
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#29 Jan 24 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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wow nice! they need to work on the MW quickly. they have a lot of things planned i can't wait to see this game in 6 months. but for now i will finish lvling my main job and the crafts that go along with it.
#30 Jan 24 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThePacster wrote:
As mentioned in other parts of the forum, hidden among bickering and the occasional coherent discussion, in the future I'm expecting an eventual balance between an auction house and the market wards. Using FFXI (as much as people hate it) as an example, if you're only allowed to sell so many items on the auction house, selling very expensive not easily sold items can potentially slow down the ability to sell items and make profits. I think this is an excellent way for the market wards to supplement an auction house.

For example (FFXI again sorry), having occasionally spent time in the infamous Rolanberry Field markets looking for hard to come by items not normally found in the auction house. One could only imagine how much nicer things would have been if there was a search function to let me quickly locate and compare prices on items being sold there. I think this is the eventual scenario we will end up with.

The auction house will be a place to easily and quickly sell items that are used frequently while rarer, more expensive, and less frequently sold items will be easily located in the market wards. Of course I could be wrong.


I could not agree more with this.

Crystals, crafting materials, cheap every day items will make great use of the AH.

Keeping rare, expensive armor/equipment in the market system not only makes the market system viable but it also lets you see what the armor looks like on the retainer mannequins before you buy it.
#31 Jan 24 2011 at 7:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I don't see any answers in that Q&A.

Aside from finally hearing the instability is a known issue to them, I learned nothing from that Q&A.

"we are going to be making changes" isn't an answer to a specific question, it's a general mission statement at this point.
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#32 Jan 24 2011 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
If it's some one on here whos ask the devs questions keep getting answered... Can you ask them about alt-tabbing and fullscreen ^.^


A thousand times this.

I can count on one hand the number of games I have played in the past 15 years that crash -every single time- you alt-tab out of fullscreen and FFXI and FFXIV take up two of those fingers.

Edited, Jan 24th 2011 4:14pm by Mikhalia


Not to mention any time I forget to open Precision for my EVGA GPU... It causes a Win7 administrator pop-up that kills DirectX (or something like that). How annoying is that? I should just set it not to pop up the administrator thing.
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#33 Jan 24 2011 at 10:16 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
TempLoop wrote:
i hope they never add an AH. like listening to babes cry for their pacifiers, sweet music to my ears. in all honesty, i WAS for market wards and i still have faith in them to give crafters/farmers a more organic/fair market but as it stands right now, the only thing they can do is make market wards more like an ah. they should just add an ah and then progress from there. i really hope that they start to utilize the stalls they created and start to add in marketing (ex. advertising that you would like to buy x Imp Wings etc.). i see market wards kind of being a workshop for crafters, almost a behind the scenes area with UI to support a social community of crafters/gatherers/farmers and then the AH to be some place just to distribute finished goods.


The Wards are designed to be a market system that does not function on supply and demand. They will always be worse because of that.


in the market wards they have sections dedicated to items and you can have the ability to buy an item (edit: ie request to buy an item through your bazaar, not browse a retainer and purchase)... that is demand. auction houses are things that are available with a rough representation of demand based on price history and frequency of purchases but not an actual demand request.

Edited, Jan 24th 2011 11:27pm by TempLoop
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#34 Jan 24 2011 at 10:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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BrickLayer wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
If it's some one on here whos ask the devs questions keep getting answered... Can you ask them about alt-tabbing and fullscreen ^.^


A thousand times this.

I can count on one hand the number of games I have played in the past 15 years that crash -every single time- you alt-tab out of fullscreen and FFXI and FFXIV take up two of those fingers.

Edited, Jan 24th 2011 4:14pm by Mikhalia


Not to mention any time I forget to open Precision for my EVGA GPU... It causes a Win7 administrator pop-up that kills DirectX (or something like that). How annoying is that? I should just set it not to pop up the administrator thing.


Indeed you should.

And there are also some rather terrible Anti-Virus programs that like to pop up and kill the game too.

"Hey, I updated myself. Oh, sorry bout your game, bro."
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#35 Jan 26 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think we really need an AH anymore. The retainer system/wards actually works pretty good right now, besides the constant reseting of wards. What will happen to retainers and wards if we get an AH. I just feel an AH(where we can see the price of everything) will lead to nothing but undercutting and monopolizing, just like in XI. The way it is now, we have the chances to make good profit and find good deals, or the opposite if you don't spend the time looking for others who sell the same items.
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#36 Jan 26 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
If I was a developer with ultimate power ... well, if implementing an AH wasn't an option... I would scrap the wards and add all the retainers (1 per player) to one area and then you could search as much as you wanted for the item no matter where the retainer is....
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#37 Jan 26 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
BrickLayer wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
If it's some one on here whos ask the devs questions keep getting answered... Can you ask them about alt-tabbing and fullscreen ^.^


A thousand times this.

I can count on one hand the number of games I have played in the past 15 years that crash -every single time- you alt-tab out of fullscreen and FFXI and FFXIV take up two of those fingers.

Edited, Jan 24th 2011 4:14pm by Mikhalia


Not to mention any time I forget to open Precision for my EVGA GPU... It causes a Win7 administrator pop-up that kills DirectX (or something like that). How annoying is that? I should just set it not to pop up the administrator thing.


Indeed you should.

And there are also some rather terrible Anti-Virus programs that like to pop up and kill the game too.

"Hey, I updated myself. Oh, sorry bout your game, bro."


The new Oracle Java installer on my system checks for an update, and pops a window asking me if I want to install about 1/2 hour into the game, crashes the game, and then tells me no updates are available... And that is in windowed mode:(. Hopefully I finally found the option to stop that... It's my only real gripe now that I gave up on fullscreen:(.

Did full screen multi-monitor before... I would recommend NOBODY do that, as you can look on stuff on your other screen, but if you touch it, CRASH.
#38 Jan 26 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
The new Oracle Java installer on my system checks for an update, and pops a window asking me if I want to install about 1/2 hour into the game, crashes the game, and then tells me no updates are available...


I feel bad for laughing at that, but that's pretty funny. Sorry.
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