Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Haymaker and other like weaponskillsFollow

#1 Jan 25 2011 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
**
441 posts
So as a pugilist I haven't really used Haymaker at all because you can only use it after evading an attack. In the course of the battle I like to call upon my weaponskills on my timing and not have them dependent on something the mob does. That is why I use CB, Victimize, and Aura Pulse for the most part

With that said am I missing something here. Anyone here use Haymaker, and if so, is there a macro you use or a way of going about it that maximizes it's usefullness? Does it come down to just waiting for that "evade" action and then spamming it?

Maybe there are some other WS's out there that are in the same category.
____________________________
Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul



#2 Jan 25 2011 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
**
845 posts
I dont use it either, the timing required vs the ease of use of other weapon skills doesnt sit well with me.
____________________________

#3 Jan 25 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
Your Evade Stat will improve through the use of Featherfoot (to evade one attack,) Presence of Mind (increase the chances of Evading from non-frontal attacks,) as well as Light Strike, which serves to increase your overall Evade + Defense. Since Featherfoot became a 1/4 Stamina Bar skill instead of 1/2, it is in use with almost every Pugilist buddy I play with, myself included. Jarring Strike I/II are incredibly useful when paired with this in that a successful hit will usually result in a 'Stun' effect, which can buy some valuable time.

Marauders utilise the use of Defender + Foresight, allowing for a higher Parrying rate, and therefore the use of the WS called Fracture, which inflicts Pacification (stops the use of Weaponskills.)

Lancers allow for you to use Feint upon missing an attack, ensuring you make a successful hit. They also parry quite well, so sometimes I'll put Fracture in.

Gladiators rely on shield blocking + Phalanx, but can also parry on occasion when their shields are down.

Experimentation is the key to fun, but by all means, if your action bar works the way you want it, keep it like that :p




Edited, Jan 25th 2011 11:48am by GuiltyBoomerang
____________________________
FFXIV

Estur Leone - Gysahl

#4 Jan 25 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,675 posts
Jarring Strike is a lot better than Haymaker, if only for stuns.

I never had a problem with noticing when to initiate the ability, it's just that it can be inconsistent.

Also the ability should always be greyed out until it is activated. As it stands it's always "lit."

#5 Jan 25 2011 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
Kierk wrote:
Jarring Strike is a lot better than Haymaker, if only for stuns.

I never had a problem with noticing when to initiate the ability, it's just that it can be inconsistent.

Also the ability should always be greyed out until it is activated. As it stands it's always "lit."



It's only lit out if you don't have 250TP or more. The cooldown is so quick that by the time you Evade again, it'll be ready for use :-)
____________________________
FFXIV

Estur Leone - Gysahl

#6 Jan 25 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
10 posts
Kierk wrote:
Jarring Strike is a lot better than Haymaker, if only for stuns.

I never had a problem with noticing when to initiate the ability, it's just that it can be inconsistent.

Also the ability should always be greyed out until it is activated. As it stands it's always "lit."




I use Jarring Strike also for the stuns. However I have a hard time noticing when to use it as it is always lit and when I see the evade action by the time I hit the button it is no longer available. So most of the time I just end up ignoring it as the timing really is variable it seems.
____________________________

#7 Jan 25 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
**
441 posts
Kierk wrote:
Jarring Strike is a lot better than Haymaker, if only for stuns.

I never had a problem with noticing when to initiate the ability, it's just that it can be inconsistent.

Also the ability should always be greyed out until it is activated. As it stands it's always "lit."



yeah that would make it easier if it were lit up only when we could use it. Good idea.

Also with featherfoot I noticed it doesn't really last a long time, maybe I'll experiment with it and Haymaker, but unless Haymaker does some nice damage, don't see the benefit of going with that as opposed to saving the extra 1k TP and going Raging Strike, Ferocity and Vicitmizing.

PS: I'm kinda new to the forums, just noticed there is a class forum where I could of placed this. will do for next time, but appreciate the responses.
____________________________
Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul



#8 Jan 25 2011 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
SeyIniuriae wrote:
Kierk wrote:
Jarring Strike is a lot better than Haymaker, if only for stuns.

I never had a problem with noticing when to initiate the ability, it's just that it can be inconsistent.


I use Jarring Strike also for the stuns. However I have a hard time noticing when to use it as it is always lit and when I see the evade action by the time I hit the button it is no longer available. So most of the time I just end up ignoring it as the timing really is variable it seems.


Buckeyespud wrote:


yeah that would make it easier if it were lit up only when we could use it. Good idea.



Probably, but I've gotten so used to the animation of an evade that Jarring Strike will always work when I see it occur. One thing about 'reaction' skills is that you have about 3-5 seconds to actually initiate the Counter Weaponskill, otherwise you'll have to wait for another chance later in a fight.

I'm not irked about it always being lit, but the current battle system doesn't help people who want something like this.

Buckeyespud wrote:


Also with featherfoot I noticed it doesn't really last a long time


Featherfoot's effect lasts for 30 seconds, but it can be gone at any time once you Evade. That's when you strike. It's up to you to keep your Evade up with Light Strike as well.

Buckeyespud wrote:

Maybe I'll experiment with it and Haymaker, but unless Haymaker does some nice damage, don't see the benefit of going with that as opposed to saving the extra 1k TP and going Raging Strike, Ferocity and Vicitmizing.


True, Victimize does a good amount of damage, but imagine a situation where you've got only....enough HP for 2 enemy attacks, and they've only got enough HP for 1 Victimize when stacked with Ferocity and Raging Strike. What would happen if you got into position, fired your Attack UP Skills, launched your Victimize....and missed?

Yes, I know that's a hypothetical position, but let's then suppose instead of those 3 skills, you had Light Strike, Featherfoot and Jarring Strike...oh wait, since Light Strike doesn't take Ability Points, let's add Concussive Blow.

Now, if you initiated Featherfoot, used Light Strike, and Evaded an attack, you've earned yourself a life! and a chance to do some DPS. And if Jarring Strike misses, you can always go Concussive Blow.

As for the usefulness of Victimize - it can use a minimum of 2000TP, or a Maximum of 3000TP. If you burn all that 3000TP and miss, you could have used, if your action bar is set and you level a lot of other classes:

* 3x1000TP moves
* 1x2000TP (Victimize) move, 2x500TP or 1x1000TP moves
* 2x1000TP moves, 2x500TP Moves
* etc., you get the idea.

Buckeyespud wrote:

PS: I'm kinda new to the forums, just noticed there is a class forum where I could of placed this. will do for next time, but appreciate the responses.


There's definitely a lot of information in the Pugilist forums as well :-)
____________________________
FFXIV

Estur Leone - Gysahl

#9 Jan 25 2011 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
97 posts
I use Haymaker II i set it to slot 11 or 21 so its right under my normal att and easy to get to and use. its just kinda hard on timing so when i use Featherfoot i dont button smash and pick one att at a time. Makes it easier to get the timing down for that att.
____________________________


#10 Jan 25 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
*
222 posts
Haymaker and the like would be much easier to use if they lit when the right condition is met. As a previous poster stated.
____________________________


#11 Jan 25 2011 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
179 posts
The trick is to listen for your character to make their 'Evade sound.' My Elezen seems to laugh a little when evading.

You also need to make sure that you haven't already queued up two moves or you'll most likely miss the window to use Haymaker/Jarring Strike.
____________________________
FFXIV: Tebhi Liontamer 37 Elezen Marauder Besaid
FFXI: Luk 75 Hume Beastmaster Gilgamesh / Tehbst 85 Taru Beastmaster Ifrit
#12 Jan 25 2011 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
315 posts
I use both jarring strike and simian thrash consistently.


my action bar looks like this:
LS = light strike
HS = heavy strike
F = flurry
JS = jarring strike
ST = simian thrash

LS, HS, F, JS, ST

that way I always have close access to eventual Evade triggers while cycling light strike, heavy and flurry. The main trick is to not spam attacks so you always have a chance to use the correct skill when the opportunity arise. I also have a macro for feather foot so I can efficiently activate it when I want to force a stun or simian thrash. Playing PGL for me, is about pacing yourself and reading the enemies attacks to maximize your evades and damage output.
____________________________
FFXI 2003-2007: Elaron ~Phoenix
FFXIV 2010-> : Gus Morgan ~Wutai

#13 Jan 25 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
*
219 posts
I keep a second window up above my normal log. The default color for evades and misses are gray and easy to spot in the yellow and red spam. Half the time I'm expecting an evade because I pair it with Featherfoot to avoid an incoming TP attack.

I use Featherfoot and Foresight on my MRD and being able to follow them up with Jarring Strikes and Fracture does wonders to increase survivability and decrease downtime when solo. However, keep in mind timing is important.

Edited, Jan 25th 2011 1:07pm by chopstx
____________________________

#14 Jan 25 2011 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,098 posts
I use Featherfoot and light strike constantly to dodge a lot more,jarring strike replaced hay maker because it stuns when it connects.Don't count on evading just use it when you get the laugh or evade.
____________________________





#15 Jan 25 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
35 posts
Buckeyespud wrote:
So as a pugilist I haven't really used Haymaker at all because you can only use it after evading an attack. In the course of the battle I like to call upon my weaponskills on my timing and not have them dependent on something the mob does. That is why I use CB, Victimize, and Aura Pulse for the most part

With that said am I missing something here. Anyone here use Haymaker, and if so, is there a macro you use or a way of going about it that maximizes it's usefullness? Does it come down to just waiting for that "evade" action and then spamming it?

Maybe there are some other WS's out there that are in the same category.


Conditional weaponskills are always worth it, if you can land them. They either inflict heavy damage or a disabling effect and like Haymaker/Featherfoot, Fracture (MRD Ability), comes paired with Foresight which increases your chance to parry and your potential to activate the weaponskill more readily.

I personally keep Concussive Blow II, Seismic Shock II and Haymaker II on my action bar, followed by Bloodbath, Ferocity, Raging Strike and Featherfoot. With some practice, you can land Haymaker frequently, and triple-buffed with the aforementioned, it has the potential to deal massive damage. I have landed up to 4 Haymakers in succession versus a red enemy with 145 DEX: Sandskin Peiste.

Learn patience and timing, learn to use Light Strike, stack the evasion/DEX and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Edited, Jan 26th 2011 4:44am by XooZQ
#16 Jan 25 2011 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
Cool thread... I might give these skills another try - especially after practicing with Phalanx
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#17 Jan 26 2011 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
*
120 posts
Lukky wrote:
The trick is to listen for your character to make their 'Evade sound.' My Elezen seems to laugh a little when evading.

You also need to make sure that you haven't already queued up two moves or you'll most likely miss the window to use Haymaker/Jarring Strike.



agreed with this, hearing your character evade is what I find the easiest as well as seeing the animation and evade appear on your char, but in the heat of battle your character cheering after you evade seems the clearest to me
____________________________


#18 Jan 26 2011 at 2:16 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
48 posts
Buckeyespud wrote:
So as a pugilist I haven't really used Haymaker at all because you can only use it after evading an attack. In the course of the battle I like to call upon my weaponskills on my timing and not have them dependent on something the mob does. That is why I use CB, Victimize, and Aura Pulse for the most part

With that said am I missing something here. Anyone here use Haymaker, and if so, is there a macro you use or a way of going about it that maximizes it's usefullness? Does it come down to just waiting for that "evade" action and then spamming it?

Maybe there are some other WS's out there that are in the same category.


Actually, those skills requiring evading/missing having a pretty decent time window IMHO.

As for my archer for example(using Feint), sometimes I just Light Shot(miss), Light Shot(again, hitting) and then execute Feint(based on the 1st miss). So, those skills don't actually require you to use them RIGHT AFTER a miss/evade, you have a time to perform those skills.(which I find enough :x, again IMHO)

Of course you'd want to perform simple actions/short animation skills in-between, so that you'll still be able to use the evade/miss WS after.

Hope I helped :)

Cheers.
____________________________
#19 Jan 26 2011 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
***
1,146 posts
I have Feint, Jarring Strike and Fracture equipped on my melees usually coupled with 2 WS abilities and of course Phalanx on GLA.
Everyone who got it will agree that Feint is great for melees and ARC, especially if you use bloodlust and miss.
Jarring Strike and Fracture I use when playing solo and activate them If I don't miss the message that I evaded or parried an attack.

For the low TP cost these weaponskills are great and their added effects (stun and pacify) are pretty usefull too.

The only thing I'd like would be for evade, parry and miss/mob evades to be easier to spot without staring at the chatlog window. Maybe with a sound, highlighted text or faded WS symbol till it is usable, similar to the way the symbols are faded when there's not enough TP. Or color them red till they can be used.

EDIT:
As Grevy said there is enough time to execute 1 action (attack, skill, spell with really short casttime) after evading, parrying or missing an attack before you activate one of the WSs.

@Lukky
While it's correct that the char makes a sound when evading and an animation when parrying an attack these can get messed up during the fight. The only 100% accurate feedback is from chatlog.

Edited, Jan 26th 2011 10:41am by RidingBean
____________________________

Final Fantasy XI
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Name: Kyana (retired)
Jobs: THF75 PLD70 BST70

#20 Jan 26 2011 at 3:31 AM Rating: Decent
*
74 posts
Featherfoot > Haymaker is awesome.

In the beginning I would just stare at the screen in hopes of seeing the "evade" text pop up. It seemed like more of a nuisance to use these skills then a benefit. I couldn't have been more wrong. Once you get used to it you don't even have to be looking. There are many clues that you just evaded:

1. My character (female hume) leans back slightly
2. She makes a unique noise. (kinda sounds like a wimper)
3. It says evade on the screen
4. Your HPs don't go down.
5. The feather foot icon at the top of the screen disappears when you evade.

The window of opportunity is huge. There are times when I am mid victimize, and I see my character evade. I now have 0 TP. I use heavy strike first to get 250 TP, and still have enough time use Haymaker before the mob hits again. Start paying attention to what an evade looks like, and after some practice, you won't have to pay attention at all.
#21 Jan 26 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
**
441 posts
XXCyniCXX wrote:
Featherfoot > Haymaker is awesome.

In the beginning I would just stare at the screen in hopes of seeing the "evade" text pop up. It seemed like more of a nuisance to use these skills then a benefit. I couldn't have been more wrong. Once you get used to it you don't even have to be looking. There are many clues that you just evaded:

1. My character (female hume) leans back slightly
2. She makes a unique noise. (kinda sounds like a wimper)
3. It says evade on the screen
4. Your HPs don't go down.
5. The feather foot icon at the top of the screen disappears when you evade.

The window of opportunity is huge. There are times when I am mid victimize, and I see my character evade. I now have 0 TP. I use heavy strike first to get 250 TP, and still have enough time use Haymaker before the mob hits again. Start paying attention to what an evade looks like, and after some practice, you won't have to pay attention at all.


nice post. I would of liked to have used the elvaan laugh as a guage, but have my sound turned off due to issues with Skype. I'll try out a featherfoot/haymaker macro to see how it goes. If it can get me out of a impish intentions wipe that I'm all for it!
____________________________
Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul



#22 Jan 26 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,571 posts
You could use a macro so that every time you attack it'll use haymaker first if available.

I believe my macro is something like /feint /attack That way if my last attack misses and I have the TP Feint fires.
____________________________


#23 Jan 27 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Check out my haymaker video! ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8DIEyWaaGs
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 20 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (20)