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Why is Fatigue Hidden?Follow

#1 Jan 26 2011 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
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This fatigue thing is confusing me at this point. I don't understand why we can't see our fatigue status (we can't can we? am I missing something?). Sure, the sp bar turns yellow, but what I'm talking about is being able to tell when its going to reset fully at the end of 1 week and how far it has partially reset within that one week. If I'm confusing anyone at this point, I'm going off of this video explanation of the fatigue system. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abE09-tqhoM . So the problem for me is that

1. When I hit yellow, I can't tell what stage of fatigue I'm at.
2. When I turn white again, I can't tell if its the 1 week reset or a partial reset within the week.
3. If its a partial reset, I can't tell how much it has reset and therefore don't know if it's worth going out into the field for more SP.
4. Fatigue on crafting jobs seems to be hidden all-together. No yellow indicators or anything. You have to fail enough crafts to know that you're starting to sink.
5. If you log on the next day and would like to do some crafting leves, you have to fail some more crafts to test the waters to see if you have a reasonable chance.

Is anyone else having the same problems? And why is this stuff hidden? Maybe theres a good reason, I just can't think of it.
#2 Jan 26 2011 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Fatigue on crafting does not affect failing, only SP, and it is NOT hidden

learn when the full reset happens each week, it will usualy be same time every week, keep track of that day, and know its always a partial if its not on that day and it comes off(partials only happen if you level alot on other jobs too)

Edited, Jan 25th 2011 11:46pm by Vedis
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#3 Jan 26 2011 at 2:38 AM Rating: Good
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At this point surplus/fatigue should not be in the game at all. Does SE really want to give its bleeding customer base another reason to log out?
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#4 Jan 26 2011 at 3:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Partial reset? Isn't it more of a slow gradual reduction if you log out or play other classes for a while and not so much a 'reset?'
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#5 Jan 26 2011 at 3:42 AM Rating: Decent
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Partial reset? Isn't it more of a slow gradual reduction if you log out or play other classes for a while and not so much a 'reset?'



Partial is a bad way ti phrase it

hes refering the the fatigue loss you get when you do other jobs and then go back before the full week is up

so lets say i hit fatigue exactly on the nose(80k sp) on my conj
then i go work on thm, and get it 80k sp and hit fatigue with it
my conj will actualy be off fatigue now, and only at the 72k mark(so i will be back on with another 8k sp)


this also isnt counting the fatigue loss you get for being logged out of the game

so it really isnt a reset at all, but a mechanic that is causing it
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#6 Jan 26 2011 at 5:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not exactly sure fatigue is "working as intended" to begin with.

I had 6 days off one week, so did an experiement. I was grinding weaving at the time, so did my 80k sp after reset, and hit fatigue. I think spent the next four days getting all my crafts to 20 from between rank 10-12. Alchemy, BSM, ARM, CRP, GLD. So a good 400k in sp grinding on other jobs during that time. When I went back to weaving the day before it's reset, it showed me as still being under fatigue. Threw my hands up in the air and said ***** it.

In just the past two days, I grinded GLD from 24>30. During the course of that time I received probably 4-5 messages saying my goldsmithing bonus rank increased, yet the SP would not take a 10% dive like it said it would, or whatever.

I suppose that being logged off might wear down fatigue. I guess that would give me more reason to completely log out of the game when I'm not playing, but I hate logging in/out when I can just stay logged in.

Don't even get me started about the fact our english translation is bad. "Your goldsmithing skill bonus increases" = bad translation.
#7 Jan 26 2011 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think theres a difference between fatigue and hitting your surplus threshold...

The surplus threshold is easy to see when you gain SP, but no information concerning your state of surplus is given at all... I think they can definitely show that, it would go a long way towards demystifying this system that is extremely unpopular... who knows, once the details are given and we see the actual numbers the psychological impact might not be nearly as bad...

Fatigue is something I've seen in gathering professions, no message is given, no SP reduction of any sort, just a sharp drop in successful gathering results... think FFXI fishing fatigue. In my opinion keeping this information totally hidden is sneaky bordering on trying to trick us into wasting our time. As far as I know DoL and DoH are very much effected by the surplus threshold in the same way that DoW and DoM are...
#8 Jan 26 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Let me throw my wrench into this pile....

Im glad so I have both sword and shield SP

Ive seen my shield go from fatigue to "your bonus rank increases" to unfatigued to fatigued to unfatigued in the same day. Does the SP gained on Glad subtract from sentinel and vice versa?

I doubt I got a reset then hit fatigue again.
#9 Jan 26 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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I wish for the same things. I also wish the yellow exp went away when fatigue was gone. For me at least, it stays yellow even after a month of not using that job. Only way to see if fatigue is off is to go out and kill something that is worth exp, then finally, the yellow exp goes away.

A weird thing for me with fatigue is that it seems like my Archer is prone to fatigue. while my Lancer chugs along never seeing it. My Archer gets it once a week even though I use both jobs the same amount(33ARC, 34LNC). And when Archer is fatigued(a lot), I just stick to lancer. But lancer just never gets fatigued for me. It's weird because Archer is my main class, but since its always fatigued, my Lancer is actually higher and has never seen fatigue.
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#10 Jan 26 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Ive seen my shield go from fatigue to "your bonus rank increases" to unfatigued to fatigued to unfatigued in the same day. Does the SP gained on Glad subtract from sentinel and vice versa?


I'm ranking up sentinel as I rank up Conjurer right now, and from what I've noticed it doesn't. I think the only thing that reduces fatigue is spending time not on the fatigued class and not so much the actual gaining of SP on other classes.

Just personal observation though, no data/facts yet.
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#11 Jan 26 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Default
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There is no way to get out of surplus before the weekly reset once you hit it. Surplus starts at -10% and increases by another -10% every 80kish sp. If you are at -50% surplus the surplus will decrease at about -10% every 8ish hours logged out. I have no idea if ranking up another class will also reduce that surplus. I know that if you hit surplus then grind 80K+ on other classes it will not take you out of surplus. It has been awhile since I have grinded 300k+ sp in the same week so I haven't tested grinding sp on another class to reduce the surplus penalty.

Also, there have been glitches where surplus resets before it should. Also you will find that your weekly reset time will change since the timer starts once you start gaining sp on that class after the weekly reset.

Edited, Jan 26th 2011 11:53am by tragicnate
#12 Jan 26 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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tragicnate wrote:
There is no way to get out of surplus before the weekly reset once you hit it. Surplus starts at -10% and increases by another -10% every 80kish sp. If you are at -50% surplus the surplus will decrease at about -10% every 8ish hours logged out. I have no idea if ranking up another class will also reduce that surplus. I know that if you hit surplus then grind 80K+ on other classes it will not take you out of surplus. It has been awhile since I have grinded 300k+ sp in the same week so I haven't tested grinding sp on another class to reduce the surplus penalty.

Also, there have been glitches where surplus resets before it should. Also you will find that your weekly reset time will change since the timer starts once you start gaining sp on that class after the weekly reset.

Edited, Jan 26th 2011 11:53am by tragicnate


ive tested grinding other jobs to reduce it, as i said it reduces at a rate of 10% of what you earn
also 10% per 8 hours logged out is not accurate either, as thats essentialy a 10k SP reprieve every hour, which isnt how it is
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#13 Jan 26 2011 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for all the replies everyone.

So crafting does have the yellow indicator? I've never hit it. I had similar experience with it as my gathering jobs where my success rate just all the sudden takes a steep downward spiral. I've spent over 30 minutes in it just to try and rule out the random number generator. But if it goes yellow, thats good to know, I will try to stick with it some more and see if I can't hit the real fatigue.
#14 Jan 26 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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phoenixcws wrote:
Fatigue is something I've seen in gathering professions, no message is given, no SP reduction of any sort, just a sharp drop in successful gathering results... think FFXI fishing fatigue. In my opinion keeping this information totally hidden is sneaky bordering on trying to trick us into wasting our time. As far as I know DoL and DoH are very much effected by the surplus threshold in the same way that DoW and DoM are...

This sums it up.

At my current fishing rank I can fish together 16k sp then I start to lose all my catches and it's very annoying. It limits me to only 16k sp a day, 20k if I do 4 rank 40 fish leves after I get fatigue, and with 100k for my last 2 ranks that means I'll be at it for weeks for my last 2 ranks.

It doesn't matter if I fish in a lower grade either, I can fish grade 6 for 120ish sp per fish but after 140 reel-ins I get hit hard with fatigue or I can fish for 80ish sp per fish in grade 5 and catch more fishies then in grade 6 before being hit with fatigue but the lower amount of sp still limits me to about 16k sp per day.

It just gets harder the higher grade water you fish and with all the money fish being available in grade 3 it does not prevent overflooding the market with fishies. Grade 6 is just filled with fodder fish from grade 1 waters and grade 5 fish can also be caught in grade 3/4. All it does is limit the rate of sp you can get at higher ranks, no more fishing 40k sp like I used to do in my 30's.
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#15 Jan 26 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I have gone from -50% to -40% in 8 hours logged out. I have also gone from -50% to -30% with a 10 hour log out period.
#16 Jan 26 2011 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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They need to do away with fatigue and surplus exp. This new team needs to take a look at it and realize that it does not benifit the player in any way. If its not a benifit and it actually hinders peoples enjoyment then it needs to go.
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#17 Jan 26 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
They need to do away with fatigue and surplus exp. This new team needs to take a look at it and realize that it does not benifit the player in any way. If its not a benifit and it actually hinders peoples enjoyment then it needs to go.


as much as i think the system as is has no problems

it really doesnt do much in the way of slowing people down, so why bother having it to begin with is a good point

if people want to grind, they are gonna grind as much as possible even through it
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#18 Jan 26 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Default
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I love the fatigue system! It means we don't have to play all the time. Some of you must know what I mean.
#19 Jan 26 2011 at 4:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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JussiMania wrote:
I love the fatigue system! It means we don't have to play all the time. Some of you must know what I mean.


If you need the game to tell you that you dont need to play all the time there are bigger issues here than surplus and fatigue.
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#20 Jan 26 2011 at 4:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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The fatigue system was implemented to deter players from blazing through the content and creates another time-sink. It really serves no purpose other than to extend the life of the game, and I feel Square-Enix did a great injustice by pawning it off as a way to promote casual gameplay and multiple jobs. Even their in-game message "You gain bonus experience points" isn't a mistranslation so much as they're afraid of stating "You gain fewer experience points" or "You gain 237 (-24) experience points". Your fatigue level is not displayed because they don't want you to see it and get aggravated. Luckily the fatigue system isn't substantial and most people just work through it; my gripe is with its concept. I haven't read anybody defending the fatigue system besides saying "it's not that bad anyway". It really needs to go.

Edited, Jan 26th 2011 5:38pm by Jamaz
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#21 Jan 26 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jamaz wrote:
The fatigue system was implemented to deter players from blazing through the content and creates another time-sink. It really serves no purpose other than to extend the life of the game, and I feel Square-Enix did a great injustice by pawning it off as a way to promote casual gameplay and multiple jobs. Even their in-game message "You gain bonus experience points" isn't a mistranslation so much as they're afraid of stating "You gain fewer experience points" or "You gain 237 (-24) experience points". Your fatigue level is not displayed because they don't want you to see it and get aggravated. Luckily the fatigue system isn't substantial and most people just work through it; my gripe is with its concept. I haven't read anybody defending the fatigue system besides saying "it's not that bad anyway". It really needs to go.

Edited, Jan 26th 2011 5:38pm by Jamaz


Yep.

Dev1: ****, the game is being released soon.. do we have any end game?

Dev2: No.. what are we going to do?

Dev1: I don't know, they'll probably be able to hit R50 in a month or so if they play a lot.

Dev2: We need to slow em down, but how?

Dev1: Didn't Masaharu-san have that idea for fatigue? You know where we lie about it's real purpose to serve our own? That way they won't complain about having nothing to do. They can just grind ALL day! They'll be so complacent!

Dev2: Get him in here!
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#22 Jan 27 2011 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
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LOL Trans, that's probably how it went.

Can anyone confirm yellow SP bar with crafting though? I'm failing stuff 5 levels below me now like mad, trying to hit the yellow fatigue bar just so I can stop assuming it's fatigue lol. I get yellow SP bar np on combat jobs, but crafting and gathering just seems to go on forever, with success rates going further and further down the hole.
#23 Jan 27 2011 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Taxmaster wrote:
LOL Trans, that's probably how it went.

Can anyone confirm yellow SP bar with crafting though? I'm failing stuff 5 levels below me now like mad, trying to hit the yellow fatigue bar just so I can stop assuming it's fatigue lol. I get yellow SP bar np on combat jobs, but crafting and gathering just seems to go on forever, with success rates going further and further down the hole.


i can confirm it, im on it right now in 4 crafts
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#24 Jan 27 2011 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you Vedis. I'll keep at it.
#25 Jan 27 2011 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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No your fatigue doesn't deter ur chances for crafting success... I can confirm this, and people saying you're failing stuff 5 ranks below I am not sure if you know what that means. Something at your rank means that you should get an average of 800 or so EXP, not 1200. 1200 is something above your rank and failing it when your doing 300-400 syns you are going to run into times when you fail 5-6 times in a row. It's just how computer's work when generating numbers, randomly generated numbers from computers aren't exactly, random I can't explain it but I heard google works wonders.

The fatigue resets on the day you first get sp, from Rank 1 and resets by the week. In some cases you might run into I assume a bug, if you grind immediately hard right after reset, you might hit fatigue in real quick but have it dissappear shortly. Not sure why it does this but, after it goes away you can grind away without surplus kicking in.

Only hidden fatigue is DoL where you can only log/mine/fish a certain amount per 24 hour before you fail like there's no tomorrow. Also it seems rank 1 fatigue is -10% sp, and subsquent rank decreases sp by another 5%, not sure if its 100% correct but I'm just going by gut feelings.
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#26 Jan 27 2011 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
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i believe fatigue was put in place so people couldn't abuse things like astral burn parties to raise your levels insanley quickly. Of course there is nothing like that at the moment they were probably thinking for the future without having to nerf anything.

Personally i don't play enough to experience fatigue, but i do believe people shouldn't be penalized for having free time.
#27 Jan 27 2011 at 1:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Kazu now that you mention it, I did notice that I was getting 275-300 SP, whatever that is in exp, per synth. I'm only level 19 but that is a lot of exp from what I'm used to anyways (this isn't leves, and that number doesn't include any male ego exaggerations of any kind (As so many exp and exp/hr quotes do)), so maybe that has something to do with it too beyond just the supposed level. It fails like 30ish % now. And then again I may just suck at crafting lol. Thanks for the input though.
#28 Jan 27 2011 at 2:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Taxmaster wrote:
Kazu now that you mention it, I did notice that I was getting 275-300 SP, whatever that is in exp, per synth. I'm only level 19 but that is a lot of exp from what I'm used to anyways (this isn't leves, and that number doesn't include any male ego exaggerations of any kind (As so many exp and exp/hr quotes do)), so maybe that has something to do with it too beyond just the supposed level. It fails like 30ish % now. And then again I may just suck at crafting lol. Thanks for the input though.


anything that can give 300+ still has a pretty good chance of failing unless you have the right skills and gear and are careful
if it can give 400, you are really gonna fail alot


around the 275 mark or so average is when you start being able to standard spam with little fail


also add in the fact stuff takes support or training, and if you do not have either of them for it, you increase your chance to fail immensely the higher you are and the recipe is

your 30% fail sounds like you are probly 1 level too low to do good on it,m or it requires some kind of suipport you do not have, some recipes i must add fail more often then others too so thats also a factor in it

Edited, Jan 27th 2011 12:03am by Vedis
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#29 Jan 27 2011 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Based on FFXI; nay, all Final Fantasy titles, Square/SE -loves- to hide things.

I've said it before, but if they had their way, they'd hide the game itself, and you'd have to find it before you could even buy it.
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