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#1 Jan 27 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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OK, i just thought it was the game but, how is parley difficulty determined? On my Rank38 quest my parley level was at 7 stars........ Really really tough to win. A LS mate comes to assist me with the mission and his parley shows as 3 stars for the same parley NPC's. I am curious how the hootie SE is determining parley difficulty. The LS mate that joined with me was a 43 CON to my 38 ARC. I have small amounts in MND/INT/PIE and have STR/VIT/DEX all high. Thats the only thing I can think of that could make a difference outside of SE's sadistic RNG formula.

Thoughts/opinions. I am just really curious.
#2 Jan 27 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
From what I've read it's completely random, the only thing that changes is how "dumb" the NPC plays. Honestly I hate the game. This is a case where using Tetra Master would have been awesome, and for the more challenging quests you just introduce more powerful cards.

Then again it may not be random, who knows. In the end I still don't like it. I gave up and killed all the mobs on my quest involving it.
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#3 Jan 27 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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Am I the only one who saw the thread title and immediately thought of Jack Sparrow?
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#4 Jan 27 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Am I the only one who saw the thread title and immediately thought of Jack Sparrow?


Parlie...parlieahiod....parsnip...parsley....parley.....yes, thats the one! Parley!

Edited, Jan 27th 2011 10:07am by Osarion
#5 Jan 27 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
From what I've read it's completely random, the only thing that changes is how "dumb" the NPC plays. Honestly I hate the game. This is a case where using Tetra Master would have been awesome, and for the more challenging quests you just introduce more powerful cards.

Then again it may not be random, who knows. In the end I still don't like it. I gave up and killed all the mobs on my quest involving it.


Agreed. I played through most of the main story missions on DoL, so I had to parley through a number of the quests. Perhaps on paper Parley is a decent concept, but it's implementation in the game is both boring and counter-intuitive to the narrative. While I understand they are trying to try it in to having Voice, and using persuasion to achieve objectives... it really needs to be more of a card mini-game along the lines of Tetra Master.
#6 Jan 27 2011 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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how does it even work? and are there non quest npcs I can practise with?
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#7 Jan 27 2011 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes I know there is a NPC in LL in the market ward area. You have to have the correct item to parley with him for thou. Its nice practice anyway if you wanted, just use cheap items.

When I get home I can post his name & exact location.
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#8 Jan 27 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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kumago wrote:
Yes I know there is a NPC in LL in the market ward area. You have to have the correct item to parley with him for thou. Its nice practice anyway if you wanted, just use cheap items.

When I get home I can post his name & exact location.


Thanks, I would really like that.
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#9 Jan 27 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Am I the only one who saw the thread title and immediately thought of Jack Sparrow?


Now i thought the same thing.
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#10 Jan 27 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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I wish you could parley with other players and wager gil. That would be sweet.
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#11 Jan 27 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I like Parlay as a concept, but it seems like it's a predetermined game from the outset.
How many stars an NPC gets seems to indicate how many high point "gimme's" the npc gets.

Seems like no matter how well you are doing, the high star NPC's just get handed awesome set-ups when it's their turn to counter your skill.

So it's not some formula that matches skill, it's more "oh you're good at this, so we'll just hand points to your opponent".
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#12 Jan 27 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
kumago wrote:
Yes I know there is a NPC in LL in the market ward area. You have to have the correct item to parley with him for thou. Its nice practice anyway if you wanted, just use cheap items.

When I get home I can post his name & exact location.


Thanks, I would really like that.


I believe there is an NPC in every city near the market/stall area. In Gridania it's Aubrenard I believe, near the center entrance to Ebony Stalls.

Parley itself is quite simple though, I wouldn't worry about it. I went into the quest that required parley not knowing anything about it. . but the directions were clear and I won my first round.

Edit: also, if you happen to lose the parley in the quests I have done, you can keep trying until you win. One particular NPC was quite difficult to parley, it took 6 tries, I almost ran out of time :c

Edited, Jan 27th 2011 1:40pm by olaurelindorenan
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#13 Jan 27 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Am I the only one who saw the thread title and immediately thought of Jack Sparrow?


That's CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow!

Edited, Jan 27th 2011 5:47pm by Enyyx
#14 Jan 27 2011 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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Restyoneck wrote:
I like Parlay as a concept, but it seems like it's a predetermined game from the outset.
How many stars an NPC gets seems to indicate how many high point "gimme's" the npc gets.

Seems like no matter how well you are doing, the high star NPC's just get handed awesome set-ups when it's their turn to counter your skill.

So it's not some formula that matches skill, it's more "oh you're good at this, so we'll just hand points to your opponent".



I don't think it has anything to do with skill at all, my first Parley the NPC had 6 stars and I had never Parleyed before at all. She was given all the good set-up though and I had to do it four or five times before I finally beat her. The sad part there was no way to continue the Quest until I did beat her.

My second Parley was even worse, to a degree. Both had 7 stars, although one I beat the first time I Parleyed him, the other... I almost just gave up and pulled my axe to pound his head in. I had about 1 minute left on the Quest timer when it was done.
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#15 Jan 27 2011 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
Tankue wrote:
I wish you could parley with other players and wager gil. That would be sweet.


No you don't. Random systems would **** so many people off. If the game required skilll or ****, even if it required you to have a collection of cards AND skill (you know, where skill can at lest have a chance against a stacked deck) maybe. In it's current form, absolutely not.
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#16 Jan 27 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
Tankue wrote:
I wish you could parley with other players and wager gil. That would be sweet.


No you don't. Random systems would **** so many people off. If the game required skilll or ****, even if it required you to have a collection of cards AND skill (you know, where skill can at lest have a chance against a stacked deck) maybe. In it's current form, absolutely not.


While it's terribad atm, it does require skill. The general idea is that of Puzzle Quest, but the execution is so horrible and the action is very slow.
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#17 Jan 27 2011 at 6:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here is a very rough guide of how Parley works.

i54.tinypic.com/102v9yo.png

#18 Jan 27 2011 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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Magnesium02 wrote:
Here is a very rough guide of how Parley works.

i54.tinypic.com/102v9yo.png



Thanks!
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#19 Jan 27 2011 at 6:51 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Am I the only one who saw the thread title and immediately thought of Jack Sparrow?


/
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#21 Jan 28 2011 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I had fun playing Parley, yes it does require skill..(duno whts up with ppl saying its random lol). I hope the game become much more complex and not jus that small box so i can strategize, mayb introduce somethin large scale similer to that. This game is kinda fun cauz u have to think 2 steps ahead so u can force ur oppoenent to either get low points and give you a huge combo or just get no points and delay or stop your combo.

-Yes for implementing for player to player matches.. should work like trade menu.
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#22 Jan 28 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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Playing Triple Triad or Tetra Master would have been soooooo much better. Those games were actually fun, even if you lose. Parley is boring even if you win. Plus, its fun to collect cards.

I do have to admit, I don't fully understand Parley yet. I get the gist its something about matching, but the game just threw me into it with no explanation.

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 9:03pm by Scape13

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 9:04pm by Scape13
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#23 Jan 30 2011 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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NoNametsu wrote:
OK, i just thought it was the game but, how is parley difficulty determined? On my Rank38 quest my parley level was at 7 stars........ Really really tough to win. A LS mate comes to assist me with the mission and his parley shows as 3 stars for the same parley NPC's. I am curious how the hootie SE is determining parley difficulty. The LS mate that joined with me was a 43 CON to my 38 ARC. I have small amounts in MND/INT/PIE and have STR/VIT/DEX all high. Thats the only thing I can think of that could make a difference outside of SE's sadistic RNG formula.

Thoughts/opinions. I am just really curious.


I am also working with the Lord Errant storyline quest. My weaving is r38. Upon reaching the point in the quest where the opportunity to Parley is available, I fail every time, and by a substantial margin, with the Lalafell NPC (they *always* get higher value tiles to choose, not skill based. I can beat the Elezen, the Hyur I loose to, but barely and consistently.

It's impossible for me to Parley successfully to advance the quest. I cannot solo (with help from my assistant), as my DoM is only 22. Both my assistant and I stand absolutely no chance with the grouped Beastkin that emerge after the Parley exercise or after eliminating the wandering, controlled NPC's to reduce the number of Beastkin in the following fight.

I'm assuming that Parley is intended to give DoH, DoL classes that are r38+ an opportunity to continue with the main storyline. If that's true, then the way Parley configures difficulty based upon rank could use some review. My only other option at this point is to find two high ranking DoM/DoW friends to bring in to party and let them complete the Beastkin themselves.
#24 Jan 30 2011 at 8:59 PM Rating: Decent
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JhanaVish wrote:
NoNametsu wrote:
OK, i just thought it was the game but, how is parley difficulty determined? On my Rank38 quest my parley level was at 7 stars........ Really really tough to win. A LS mate comes to assist me with the mission and his parley shows as 3 stars for the same parley NPC's. I am curious how the hootie SE is determining parley difficulty. The LS mate that joined with me was a 43 CON to my 38 ARC. I have small amounts in MND/INT/PIE and have STR/VIT/DEX all high. Thats the only thing I can think of that could make a difference outside of SE's sadistic RNG formula.

Thoughts/opinions. I am just really curious.


I am also working with the Lord Errant storyline quest. My weaving is r38. Upon reaching the point in the quest where the opportunity to Parley is available, I fail every time, and by a substantial margin, with the Lalafell NPC (they *always* get higher value tiles to choose, not skill based. I can beat the Elezen, the Hyur I loose to, but barely and consistently.

It's impossible for me to Parley successfully to advance the quest. I cannot solo (with help from my assistant), as my DoM is only 22. Both my assistant and I stand absolutely no chance with the grouped Beastkin that emerge after the Parley exercise or after eliminating the wandering, controlled NPC's to reduce the number of Beastkin in the following fight.

I'm assuming that Parley is intended to give DoH, DoL classes that are r38+ an opportunity to continue with the main storyline. If that's true, then the way Parley configures difficulty based upon rank could use some review. My only other option at this point is to find two high ranking DoM/DoW friends to bring in to party and let them complete the Beastkin themselves.


The best thing you could do is gain a couple more levels and come back. It'll be easier.
#25 Jan 31 2011 at 1:49 AM Rating: Decent
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At r38 DoH there's not even enough time to complete the 3 rounds of Parley, even if I could somehow win against the game giving the NPC's a stacked opportunity. I'm not sure how gaining a few more levels would change the fact that there's not even enough time to complete the 3 rounds.

One or more of the following may be true:
The Parley function is calibrated wrong for an r38 DoH/DoL to complete the quest for which they qualify.
The time required to successfully Parley with all three NPC's needs adjusting.
The quest is intended to require a fight, demanding recruitment of 2 other PC's of high level in DoM/DoW classes.
Only DoM/DoW are intended to complete the quest.

Has anyone here successfully completed this quest as DoH/DoL ? What rank did you succeed at? Any tips?
#26 Jan 31 2011 at 6:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Just wondering something...

Since you have have 2 other PCs with you, can't u then have each party member parley with a NPC in seperate?

This would reduce the time requirememnt by a third^^
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#27 Jan 31 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Good thinking. That would be a winning strategy if the Parley was calibrated differently. However the Lallafell especially is impossible to beat at the moment. Tried it 6 times. Each time, I would choose the highest value tile combination and the "rng" would give the NPC a higher value tile combination to counter.

So again, Parley needs adjusting or the intended quest resolution path can be made more clear to players.
#28 Jan 31 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Scape13 wrote:
Playing Triple Triad or Tetra Master would have been soooooo much better. Those games were actually fun, even if you lose. Parley is boring even if you win. Plus, its fun to collect cards.


I actually enjoy parley. The first time I engaged in it (R30 TAN quest) I got rocked by the NPC like 5-6 times. Took a couple tries to figure out what was going on, then a few rounds to actually beat her. For as much as I like parley if they were to replace it with Triple Triad/Tetra Master I would be VERY happy with that as well. The games are pretty solid and I agree, the card collecting is half the fun. Also allow you to challenge other players (I would think would be a given if SE actually did this) and I would be consumed by the card game for months on end.

Edited, Jan 31st 2011 4:53pm by Ipwnrice
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#29 Jan 31 2011 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
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Did this for the ALC 30 quest... lost on first try, won on second try... with NPC on 5 star
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#30 Jan 31 2011 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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JhanaVish wrote:
At r38 DoH there's not even enough time to complete the 3 rounds of Parley, even if I could somehow win against the game giving the NPC's a stacked opportunity. I'm not sure how gaining a few more levels would change the fact that there's not even enough time to complete the 3 rounds.

One or more of the following may be true:
The Parley function is calibrated wrong for an r38 DoH/DoL to complete the quest for which they qualify.
The time required to successfully Parley with all three NPC's needs adjusting.
The quest is intended to require a fight, demanding recruitment of 2 other PC's of high level in DoM/DoW classes.
Only DoM/DoW are intended to complete the quest.

Has anyone here successfully completed this quest as DoH/DoL ? What rank did you succeed at? Any tips?


While I didn't do it personally, I do know of a couple of people who were able to complete this at r38. They said you needed to focus on picking tiles as close to the bottom (and right) as possible so that the game took less time in filling in the blanks. Terrible design, I know, but the point it is can be done.

I don't know if you are specifically given more time at higher rank, or if through the AI's poor play you get through it faster -- regardless it certainly is possible. I've done it myself, as have others. It's much easier at higher ranks. I believe I was 42 when I did it.
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