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Can you just play as DOH or DOLFollow

#1 Jan 27 2011 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I started this game wanting to be a full time miner, cause i really dont like the very few jobs you can pick from, and im not into craftin at all, but then i start to realize is that i think everyone is pretty much self sufficient as i mean every blacksmith i run into mines and every wearer cuts grass them self, i mean why wouldnt you cut the middle man out make more money, so i find my ore's just collecting dust and i go no wear, it just seems trying to make a liveing off raw materials isnt as good as it was in ff11, everyone already has what they need.

So i start GLD and go on my own grinding and farming,cause those leve's are a joke i thought i was a adventuer not a bloody mercenary just trying to make some coin, i want fame and glory for everyone to know my name not the size of my pocket,so i grind and farm monster drops and looking for NM's those are the things i loved in FF11 was grinding and farming and hunting NM's, i played as a BST to 75 in FF11, i was one of the few that loved the thought of grinding the same mobs for 4 to 5+ hours and selling everything they drop and make money, the idea of liveing off the wild appealed to me greatly and being an adventure, but not alot of people like that way of playing lol.

but any way im getting off track i mean to say is that DOL and DOH should just me skills, why wouldnt they? i mean can i take my weaver to end game stuff? if they say its a class then why cant i get party invites as a miner? they say there classes but come on! you cant just be DOH or DOL through the whole game with out missing so much of it, so why say its a class your only lieing to yourself, or i could be wrong only lvl 14, miners could be in more higher demand around lvl 30 in partys

in my world i would just have every class able to fight in there own way sure it may sound wired, but inmagine the miner able to sense the rocks around him and knowing were to hit with his pick axe to cause the silver vien of ore under the mob to shoot up and do dmg to the mobd lol, and it would make for some cool party combos and everyone could play how they want lol. dont get me wrong i love be able to play as every job but, it should just be jobs you can actually play throught the hole game as,

as i close this off sorry if this came out kinda ranty but my main question still stands, can you just play this game as a DOH or DOL and still get the same great expericnes as the DOW and DOM, or do you have to atleast have a DOM or DOW to fully enjoy the game,

#2 Jan 27 2011 at 6:54 PM Rating: Default
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You can do whatever you want.

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#3 Jan 27 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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lol guess i had that comeing, i just mean can you do everthing as for say a miner, can i beat the storyline? as just a miner, can i tackle on huge NM raides as a miner? if not then shouldnt it just be a skill instead of a class, whats the point of saying it a class if you cant do evrything in the game with it.
#4 Jan 27 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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Some missions do require you to fight, and even though a miner has a pickaxe, he'll rather throw rocks instead!

Rocks hurt, but monsters hurt more.
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#5 Jan 27 2011 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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imfDUB wrote:
i mean can i take my weaver to end game stuff? if they say its a class then why cant i get party invites as a miner? they say there classes but come on!


The answer is simple: SE calls them classes, and acts like they are classes in themselves, but DoL and DoH are simply not classes. They have very, very few abilities, they contribute nothing to a party, and their playstyle does not change whether they are Rank 1 or Rank 47.

Can you go through the game as a crafter/gatherer? Yes, if by "go through" you mean "advance the little pieces of story." Can you fight monsters, join parties, or participate at all in any "end-game-style" content? No, not in any way -- and it's doubtful you ever will.

SE made a big mistake by saying that DoL and DoH were classes to begin with: it was a statement that not only never materialized, but one that made it so that various storyline missions are either soloed for you by an NPC or solvable through a shape-matching mini-game.

SE either needs to downgrade DoL and DoH to side-jobs (which would not be hard, because they essentially are now) or upgrade them to actual classes -- classes that can contribute to parties and to missions, that is to say, classes that can fight.
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#6 Jan 27 2011 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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thanks for the great reply i understand the DoL now, and do hope something good comes from it
#7 Jan 27 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I love being a Botanist but one time while doing a Limsa Lominsa leve I went to chop a tree with another player next to it.While I was chopping the tree the player walked over to me and started to beat the crap out of me.It was my first human aggro mob I'd seen.I tried to run and threw my rocks and switched to passive then a pugilist and barely won the mob drop was a rope and candle.Always take a backup weapon with you on DOL because invis is an insane amount of guild marks to get in this game.
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#8 Jan 27 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
KaneKitty wrote:
imfDUB wrote:
i mean can i take my weaver to end game stuff? if they say its a class then why cant i get party invites as a miner? they say there classes but come on!


The answer is simple: SE calls them classes, and acts like they are classes in themselves, but DoL and DoH are simply not classes. They have very, very few abilities, they contribute nothing to a party, and their playstyle does not change whether they are Rank 1 or Rank 47.

Can you go through the game as a crafter/gatherer? Yes, if by "go through" you mean "advance the little pieces of story." Can you fight monsters, join parties, or participate at all in any "end-game-style" content? No, not in any way -- and it's doubtful you ever will.

SE made a big mistake by saying that DoL and DoH were classes to begin with: it was a statement that not only never materialized, but one that made it so that various storyline missions are either soloed for you by an NPC or solvable through a shape-matching mini-game.

SE either needs to downgrade DoL and DoH to side-jobs (which would not be hard, because they essentially are now) or upgrade them to actual classes -- classes that can contribute to parties and to missions, that is to say, classes that can fight.


I think you're missing part of the point. What would a crafter want with party abilities? What would someone who only crafts want with endgame? Why would someone who wishes to dedicate themselves to crafting/gathering want to fight monsters?

I imagine that someone who only wanted to do DoH/DoL would want nothing to do with such things. And there definitely are people who only are interested in that. The life of a crafter is about business and social interaction. Not so much adventure.

That DoH/Ls are less materialized than DoM/W is simply not true. These are different playstyles for different people. Would you honestly feel differently if they were made into side-jobs? It wouldn't change a thing honestly for those who only want to craft and gather.

I say that SE should do more to differentiate the DoH/L. We need a more functional market system so that sellers can get their wares found by more people, and quicker. We need more storage. The 99 stack change will help I think. More harvest points would help both harvesters and crafters.
#9 Jan 27 2011 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Can an R50 Archer craft R50 gear?

No.

Does that mean archers are not a class, because they can't do everything?

Classes can do different things. Because one class can't fight NMs doesn't make it less of a class. Because one class can't harvest Grade 5 Botany nodes doesn't make it less of a class. Because one class can't make endgame gear doesn't mean it is not a class.

Each discipline has a place in the world. If you don't want to be a crafter/gatherer - then don't be one. I don't see why it bothers people so much that they are full classes. If it does bother you - then don't level them, simple.
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#10 Jan 28 2011 at 12:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I imagine that someone who only wanted to do DoH/DoL would want nothing to do with such things. And there definitely are people who only are interested in that. The life of a crafter is about business and social interaction. Not so much adventure.


I was addressing that point because the thread seemed to be about the OP's desire to play a Miner in the same way (or, at least, in a similar way) to that which he could play any other class.

The problem with insisting that DoL and DoH are about business and social interaction, however, is that a DoW and a DoM can also engage in business and social interaction and, unlike crafters, the damage-based classes can farm materials, as well. If the only thing unique to DoL and DoH -- indeed, if the only thing they can exclusively offer -- is the ability to gather and the ability to craft, respectively, I don't see how anyone could say that they are "not less materialized" then other classes, since such skills were seen as bare-bones side-skills in FFXI.

A Disciple of Hand can:
synthesize items, and engage in "business and social interaction."
A Disciple of Magic can: fight monsters, either through direct damage or through enfeebling spells, heal and support other players, take part in the "end-game-style" Rank-50 leves, farm materials, and engage in "business and social interaction."

This brings me to the next (related) quote:

Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
That DoH/Ls are less materialized than DoM/W is simply not true. These are different playstyles for different people.


Well, DoL and DoH are less materialized in the sense that the largest difference between a Carpenter, a Blacksmith, an Armorer, a Goldsmith, a Tanner, a Weaver, an Alchemist, and a
Culinarian is the way their tool looks; other than their tool, they play exactly the same, and the only remaining difference comes in the form of their single-digit-number of traits and abilities... which, at least as far as I have seen thus far, all have the same animation.

In conclusion, if someone joins an MMO just to engage in crafting, there is not necessarily anything wrong with that. That said, they may find the fact that crafting in FFXIV is only marginally more substantive than most any other WoW clone off-putting, for, as it stands now, the combined force of eight Disciples of Hand are just a gear set and the same three, repetitive synth options away from old-style, traditional side-crafts; and Disciples of Land are only a moving yellow dot away from right-clicking a node.
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#11 Jan 28 2011 at 12:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Can an R50 Archer craft R50 gear?

No.

Does that mean archers are not a class, because they can't do everything?


I think it's more a matter of the number and quality of abilities the respective disciplines acquire.

A Pugulist, for example, can do more than a single, repetitive punch regardless of what he fights: a Pugulist has abilities that heal himself, that help him dodge, abilities that have specific triggers (such as during an evade), that modify enmity distribution, TP-based abilities with differing effects, and numerous damaging skills, some of which take into consideration the location of the target.

A Botanist can search for a tree, run quickly to that tree, and gather wood from that tree. There are no abilities that require different conditions, no directional-based skills, no use for TP or MP, no special triggers that require one to pay attention... and, perhaps best of all, every one of the skills looks the same, whether it's the first Arbor Call at Rank 1 or the last at Rank 48. Also, the gathering "mini-game" is no more complicated regardless of how high one levels; it never requires even the slightest change in strategy or approach for all fifty Ranks!

In short, the issue with DoL and DoH is not so much that crafting and gathering could not, when subjected to much better design, become classes in themselves -- the issue is that, as they exist now and have existed for many months prior, DoL and DoH are barely more than an unchanging half-mini-game away from equivalent skills in other MMOs, where they are not, and have never been, considered classes due to their lack of engagement and depth.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#12 Jan 28 2011 at 12:38 AM Rating: Decent
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can you just play this game as a DOH or DOL and still get the same great expericnes as the DOW and DOM, or do you have to atleast have a DOM or DOW to fully enjoy the game,
Therein lies your answer. You asked if you could 'fully' enjoy the game without a DoW. To fully enjoy any game you need to experience everything it has to offer (not necessarily complete, but experience it none the less). In FFXIV's case this means levelling at least one combat profession so that you can enter into NM fights and the like.

I agree with the above poster on this one. While DoH / DoL are considered classes they're very limited in their scope. The skills you can cross-class from other DoH or DoL jobs does nothing to change your playstyle, unlike DoW, and its impossible to engage even the weakest of enemies in fair combat as 'Stone Throw' deals less damage than an ant bite.

Some story missions give you the option to 'Parlay' your way through combat situations, so DoH / DoL classes can still complete them without major barriers but it's a bit silly and feels like its dragging down the game in places where there should be combat. Somehow I can't imagine Eald'narche settling his differences over a nice game of cards.

Can you play through the game as pure DoH? Sure, why not. Can you truly get the most out of the game if you do? Not really.
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#13 Jan 28 2011 at 1:05 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
In short, the issue with DoL and DoH is not so much that crafting and gathering could not, when subjected to much better design, become classes in themselves -- the issue is that, as they exist now and have existed for many months prior, DoL and DoH are barely more than an unchanging half-mini-game away from equivalent skills in other MMOs, where they are not, and have never been, considered classes due to their lack of engagement and depth.


I completely agree with you on this. The DoL/DoH classes truly are just glorified crafts from any other mmo, with a minigame instead of an auto-craft or right click. Yes, they also have the skills for each class, which DOES make them somewhat more unique than most other crafts in MMO's, but they still barely graze the surface compared to a DoM/DoW class. I would LOVE to see all those jobs getting an ability every 2 levels. There could be a multitude of different skills/party buffs/healing moves/etc that these jobs could use to help out a party. I sincerely hope they DO become subject to better design, because if they were all on equal footing with DoW/M classes in terms of abilities, it would certainly make crafting/gathering infinitely more exciting and unique.

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 2:06am by BartelX
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#14 Jan 28 2011 at 2:20 AM Rating: Good
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LyleVertigo wrote:
Some missions do require you to fight, and even though a miner has a pickaxe, he'll rather throw rocks instead!

Rocks hurt, but monsters hurt more.


not true, you can complete the storyline as a miner, as I have done
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#15 Jan 28 2011 at 5:13 AM Rating: Default
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It is impossible to just play DoH and DoL and you sure know why, if the DoH can gather mats for emself and DoL can gather mats and sell em, the item price will be stable instead of let 1 side take control of the mats currency, that will cause the final product price become "wtf is this <CENCOR>" situation
#16 Jan 28 2011 at 5:30 AM Rating: Good
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In mats which are either hard to find or there is a high demand, I can say for certain that Iron is of major importance to ARM as it is needed to 20-40 range of grinding. If you want to really dedicate yourself to ARM you either have to avail of other peoples mats or loose over half your time mining your own Iron.

I will have to assume the same will apply to mats higher up in ranks.
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#17 Jan 28 2011 at 6:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Let me start by saying that I have yet to start doing any DoW/DoM. I have played the game since release of CE and the only class I have played that is not DoH/DoL is GLAD and I have it at rank 5 only...

I have really enjoyed every moment I have played. I may not play as much as many others but I really love that I can enter the game... do some gathering... do some crafting... maybe do a leve... talk a bit with linkshell friends... set up my retainer... enjoy the scenery etc. etc. etc.

I have almost killed no mobs in the game and I don't really plan to. I want to take gathering and crafting as far as I can with the little time I have to play (wife, children, work, friends, my website and so on take up a lot of my time). I can only recommend playing this way as it is a great way to relax. You don't need to get people gathered for a party. I could start DoM/DoW if I wanted to. I have a big advantage if I should choose to do it as I will have the ability to make or fix my own gear. I would be able to make food that give me better stats and so on. But so far I have chosen not to and I don't know if I will ever (though I probably will).

This being said I don't know if this is the right path for you. Reading your post I don't think you will enjoy the game if you only play DoL/DoH as I think you want to have party play and you want to go hunt NMs. This is not possible as a crafter or gatherer. There may be aspects of DoL/DoH you may enjoy but I don't think it will provide you with the kind of end game activities you are looking for.

I hope this helps you in deciding how to play the game :D
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#18 Jan 28 2011 at 6:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yes you can. People had forgotten what SE's vision for these classes was, that endgame would consist of group projects.
Large scale crafts that take a group of crafters to make. And BTW, button pushing is done by everyone in this game, it doesn't matter if its the same three, or same 5, and if you're not watching your progress, dura, and quality as a crafter than you will never be able to increase your chances at successful HQing. It the same as watching a mob.

Too many misconceptions about the game leads to constant ******** on the forums about how people hate certain aspects in the game, because they just didnt understand how it worked.
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#19 Jan 28 2011 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
Yes you can. People had forgotten what SE's vision for these classes was, that endgame would consist of group projects.
Large scale crafts that take a group of crafters to make. And BTW, button pushing is done by everyone in this game, it doesn't matter if its the same three, or same 5, and if you're not watching your progress, dura, and quality as a crafter than you will never be able to increase your chances at successful HQing. It the same as watching a mob.

Too many misconceptions about the game leads to constant ******** on the forums about how people hate certain aspects in the game, because they just didnt understand how it worked.


I too found it strange the ammount of people that just jumped on the bandwagon of hating DoH and that they were not classes so I decided to make a post to discuss these points.

I think I posted in a polite and clever way refuting the points that people brought up so guess what..

No replies after 1 hour and a half, you can find my post at

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=129621402064766312&page=1
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#20 Jan 28 2011 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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To the OP:

SE was faced with a tradeoff, as is any designer, when determining how self sufficient any one character can be, and how difficult to make the process of developing your characters ability. You can't survive off just a DoL skill/class very well because they decided to both allow a single character to become totally self sufficient (in the crafting/gathering department) and make it rather easy to develop your DoH/DoL ability. This way is arguably better for very casual players who don't want to spend the time to interact with others to develop their characters... FFXIV was billed as being geared toward the very casual, so people can craft and gather without having to interact with others at the cost of your miner's niche market.

As far as DoH and DoL being real classes... well FFXIV is caught in an awkward place between a class and classless game because of their naming conventions and skill progression. DoH and DoL classes are true classes in FFXIV, its just that they don't fight and wont be experiencing any endgame combat unless that stone throw get a unreal buff ;) DoH and DoL classes work just like craft skills in most other mainstream MMOs, its just that because they need to equip a specific tool in their weapon slot it would be inconsistent for FFXIV to call it anything but a class. They could have accomplished the same thing as they did with the sentinel skill in my opinion if they had implemented a craft tool slot or two, but they chose not to, both paths have their pros and cons (see the confusion surrounding the sentinel skill/class)


The short answer:

1) They made the game a lot easier, so you cant survive (well thrive, technically you can survive...) as just a miner, but mining doesn't take nearly as long so you can level other stuff...

2) Are DoH/DoL real classes? Class/Skill whatever its semantics unless you actually want to try to beat on end game bosses with a frying pan, sewing needle or fishing pole.

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 9:13am by phoenixcws
#21 Jan 28 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I am just waiting for SE to throw in some end-game DOL and DOH leves just to balance things out:). Because DOH and DOL didn't get endgame leves isn't because they are not classes, it's because they didn't complain that there was no endgame content, and so SE didn't have to throw something in quick to keep people happy.
#22 Jan 28 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I love how people get rated down simply because their opinion is in the minority of a given thread. The truth of the matter is, if you want to consider DoH and DoL classes as fulfilling as battle classes, that is your right. But, trying to say they are as fleshed out as other classes is just absolutely not true. On my r26 conjurer, I have over 20 unlocked abilities and skills at my disposal. On my r30 blacksmith, I have 4. On my Conjurer I can use these skills for a MULTITUDE of different things. Attacking mobs, defending myself, buffing myself or party, healing, etc... On blacksmith, I use my 4 skills to craft. There isn't any variation in it, other than using wait at the appropriate times, and using my skills at the appropriate times.

I'm not going to touch "endgame" content, because who knows if they will include DoH/DoL in it. I really WANT them to better these classes and make them on par with DoW/DoM, but in my OPINION right now they are not as equally deep as a battle class, not even close. Now then, feel free to rate me down because I have a dissenting opinion from the masses. Gasp!

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 11:22am by BartelX
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#23 Jan 28 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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The sad thing is, that, while not as "fleshed out" as the DoW classes,
the crafters/gatherers still have a *HUGE* detrimental impact on the
whole game's story-telling.

I hate it when a cutscene states:

FIRE!!!
EXCITE!!!
DANGERDANGERDANGER!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
! ARRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
! Those beastmen are about to SHRED us to PIECES!!!!!! !
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...and then they wander around aimlessly for half an hour to give
crafters a chance to parley.
#24 Jan 28 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Why shouldn't gatherers have a role in party play? Like rogue with their unlock ability in other games, dedicated gatherers could get rare stuff in dungeons or remote areas of the map that the rest of the party needs to complete quests. Imagine a quest to a remote mountain, with some rare ore that players need to deliver - they bring along a miner with them who mines stuff while the rest battle it out with monsters.

As for crafting, yeah, probably not so much, unless they can continually buff party members by sharpening weapons, but that sounds pretty dull (no pun intended). But there are tons of other ways to make crafting more exciting (like group crafting quests, such as the boats that were indicated as forthcoming).
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#25 Jan 28 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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...theoretically, yes. But even SE has limited manpower.
And (personally, selfishly) I'd much more like them to
focus on the borked DoW/DoM part of the game than start
making up some crafter end-game content now.

I just believe that, for the upcoming 6 months, they
simply lack the power to accomodate both groups.

Selfish, yes. ^.-/
#26 Jan 28 2011 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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yfaithfully wrote:
Why shouldn't gatherers have a role in party play? Like rogue with their unlock ability in other games, dedicated gatherers could get rare stuff in dungeons or remote areas of the map that the rest of the party needs to complete quests. Imagine a quest to a remote mountain, with some rare ore that players need to deliver - they bring along a miner with them who mines stuff while the rest battle it out with monsters.


The problem with this argument is that outside of actually mining/gathering, the DoH/DoL job is relatively useless, so the best option is to bring someone who has an appropriately leveled DoW/DoM and ALSO a DoH/DoL job. Rogues are good at lock picking and trap disabling but they are still decent combatants on top of it.

I was one of the people back in the beginning who thought it would be fun to design a system where non combat classes could participate but I can't think of a way to make the non combat classes different, but still able to perform on the same level as combat classes in the same scenario.

I think it might be possible to design combatless endgame content for DoH and DoL, but then DoW/DoM would be useless in that same content. I'd be fine with that though; I think that's totally reasonable that different class types have different endgame content.
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#27 Jan 28 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know, I could see having to mine for a pop item, while people keep mobs off you. Once you get the item, give it to a crafter. That person crafts it into the the pop items true form, and then give that to the tank, who then trades it to the pop location, and a big baddy pops.

While, not something a straight zerg team may want to deal with, you could have multiple miners there trying to get the item, and who knows, if you could get multiple pop items, have multiple crafters. But it would keep everyone busy, and exp for all, as well as a level of team work that I personally haven't seen in an mmo. And from the sound of it most people haven't either.
#28 Jan 28 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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phoenixcws wrote:


1) They made the game a lot easier, so you cant survive (well thrive, technically you can survive...) as just a miner, but mining doesn't take nearly as long so you can level other stuff...



Mining does take as long, if not longer to level than any DoW/DoM class man... and any miner out there that is 40+ is probably one of the richest people on their servers... if that is not thriving, I don't know what is.

As for the OP talking about not being able to sell stuff - I found that in general you don't get many drops that sell well till you can do grade 3 nodes on any gathering job because the first two nodes are super quick to unlock so lots of people get those materials but once you hit grade 3,4,5 ... then there is a huge market and not a lot of DoL selling into it

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 10:12am by Olorinus
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#29 Jan 28 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
phoenixcws wrote:


1) They made the game a lot easier, so you cant survive (well thrive, technically you can survive...) as just a miner, but mining doesn't take nearly as long so you can level other stuff...



Mining does take as long, if not longer to level than any DoW/DoM class man... and any miner out there that is 40+ is probably one of the richest people on their servers... if that is not thriving, I don't know what is.

As for the OP talking about not being able to sell stuff - I found that in general you don't get many drops that sell well till you can do grade 3 nodes on any gathering job because the first two nodes are super quick to unlock so lots of people get those materials but once you hit grade 3,4,5 ... then there is a huge market and not a lot of DoL selling into it

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 10:12am by Olorinus



My reply was to the OP who made the comparison of mining in FFXI vs FFXIV... in FFXIV it doesnt take nearly the time it did in FFXI to come away with a lot of useful materials. Since mining in FFXIV takes much less of a time commitment, he can level other skills to make his guy more useful.

EDIT: I probably havent leveled far enough in my mining skill to know first hand that its not something I can thrive on, but by the time I do (and I will) then most of the other people will have done so as well. Its not conducive to a small niche players can fill unless they do something to make skills mutually exclusive, which breaks their whole one character is all you need model, or they make the act of mining far more difficult.

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 1:25pm by phoenixcws
#30 Jan 28 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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phoenixcws wrote:



My reply was to the OP who made the comparison of mining in FFXI vs FFXIV... in FFXIV it doesnt take nearly the time it did in FFXI to come away with a lot of useful materials. Since mining in FFXIV takes much less of a time commitment, he can level other skills to make his guy more useful.


That's cool - I just want to emphasize that actually leveling a DoL job is super time consuming... just getting some random stuff - not so much, for sure
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#31 Jan 28 2011 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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As a quick note to anyone who isn't actively playing the game, here's a tip to avoid a trap I almost just fell into:
Botanists, Fishers, and Miners are not DoH. They are DoL.

That said: I think that there is a lot of potential to the DoH category. What would occur if say later down the road it became the norm for DoH to make craft camps in the middle of zones and regularly services players as they became weary? If we assume that DoH must follow around the other Disciplines we fall into the second trap, which is that this game must operate like previous MMOs. It doesn't have to. It is all about what the players establish as the norm.

EDIT: Re-reading the OP, I see that DoL was mentioned. I don't have a good solution for that. It may be more problematic. Especially if SE begins to make these "otherworldly zones" that don't have trees, caves, or bodies of water. I don't think they'd be that thoughtless, but it's worth keeping in the back of our minds.

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 3:03pm by KPBeta
#32 Jan 28 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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I personally think this post is retarded. If your biggest complaint in the game is that they called DoH/DoL "classes" and not "sub-classes" or "synths" then you must think the game is doing pretty **** well. Who cares what they call it. SE never announced that the word "classes" meant endgame activity, full of farming NMs, alliancing to battle, etc. It's all a matter of opinion. DoH/DoL are a different playstyle, and offer advantages that DoW/DoM do not, and vise versa.

Personally, I believe that DoH are one of the strong points in the game (I cannot speak for DoL as I have yet to level them). As far as abilities go, they have much more to offer when compared to ffxi crafting. Not only does each DoH get its own abilities that can work with other DoH, they can do guild leves, get guildmarks, and buy other abilities. This offers alot more than what ffxi crafting could.(Trading in a specified item, x amount of times to recieve synth points).

The animations are atleast interesting to look at unlike ffxi, and the tools are different as well(What tools did ffxi use? Oh right, their bare hands). Someone mentioned that DoW/DoM can still get materials. Yes they can, but the materials are different, and do not sell for as well. As more people become high level Dow/DoM, the demand for DoH materials will go up, because there will be less DoH/DoL high level players. Aside from what content is already available, I am sure DoH/DoL will only become more profitable as the game progresses.

Another thing the classes offer is that they can fix their own gear or farm their own materials which a DoW/DoM cannot. It makes your game that much easier, cheaper, and pleasant when leveling Dow/DoM if you have DoH/DoL leveled.

I personally do not hope they make DoH able to fight in parties, the idea of a miner able to "telepathically communicate with rocks to damage enemies" would deter myself and I'm sure many others from the game. The differences between the classes, is what little SE has going for them. If all DoH and DoL were able to be like DoW/DoM, there would be less diversity, more of the same content/same grinding of behest/ets. That is what they should be staying away from, and what I believe they are working to stay away from. They are trying to make the classes more unalike, and less alike.

If you compare both DoW/DoM to ffxi combat style, and DoH/DoL to ffxi synth/farm, I think most would and will agree that SE has improved in the DoH/DoL section, but made the DoW/DoM section worse. The way i view it: Crafting/Farming classes require not much skill, but are tedious and repetitive; however, they offer more rewards when it comes to endgame in terms of gil and making progression on Dow/DoM easier. It is harder to advance these classes, but the reward is greater in the end, because less people level them, just like in ffxi. Fighting/Magic classes are often engaging/more exciting/interactive than crafting, but getting them to endgame is more common than endgame crafts, and therefor the rewards aren't as great.

What SE needs to focus on, is changing the combat style from button mashing, to actual skill like ffxi required.
#33 Jan 30 2011 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
phoenixcws wrote:



My reply was to the OP who made the comparison of mining in FFXI vs FFXIV... in FFXIV it doesnt take nearly the time it did in FFXI to come away with a lot of useful materials. Since mining in FFXIV takes much less of a time commitment, he can level other skills to make his guy more useful.


That's cool - I just want to emphasize that actually leveling a DoL job is super time consuming... just getting some random stuff - not so much, for sure



Agreed, I finally got Mining to 20 and I can't imagine how long it would take to cap. I'll continue to do it during my spare time/leves but to only level that would give me reason enough to /quit.
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