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Why didn't Square-Enix just seperate all the Diciplines?Follow

#1 Jan 27 2011 at 7:01 PM Rating: Default
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I don't understand why they allowed all of the players to be able to be all disciplines. It hurts the markets in my opinion and their "Bazaar concept" they had going. When people started players out they should have been only able to choose one discipline and stick to those jobs under that discipline so that there is that heavy reliance on crafters, gatherers, mages, as well as melee classes. I think the Market Wards would have been a ton easier to use for players that mine, craft, and farm. That would help players separate things to sell since they can only gather certain items due to their discipline.

I see most folks complaining about selling multiple types of items and others not being able to find it, as its being sold in the wrong ward. When I first started I chose gladiator. Since I needed gear, instead of looking for an armorer to make it I bought a hammer and made my own stuff. Its kind of sad in some degree.

I don't know... I wish Square-Enix built this game with a little thought of how players will avoid others to get what they need. I still love this game to death and will stick to the end. I just wish for stuff you know. =P

/rant
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#3 Jan 27 2011 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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i agree with you i started as a miner thinking to myself ill make a liveing on selling raw materals but then i realize everyone is way too self sufficient, and my ores collect dust

on the FF14 website they had a scerno of a DoW haveing all this cockatrice meat and running into a cook who cooked it for her, and boom happy fammly everyone wins but in reality the DoW takes out her fryingpan and cooks it for her self, and everyone stays self sufficient. and the DoL goes no were
#4 Jan 27 2011 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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i understand what your are saying but at the same time that is a huge reason why i love this game. You are able to play any class and do any craft with just one character, you don't have to have 10 alts if you want to experience all aspects of the game like in every other MMO i have played. you just have to focus on one type of item to sell for each of your retainers once we are able to get more retainers then people will be able to have retainers in each ward. i do not know if its true but i have heard the monthly fee will be only 12.95 making it so you can have an extra 3 retainers and still be paying the average amount for other mainstream MMO's making it 5 in total. if 5 retainers isn't enough for you to sell all the stuff you want to then you will still have the option to buy more.

Edited, Jan 27th 2011 8:34pm by elevencharle
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#5 Jan 27 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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The real question, I suppose, is why did that not happen in FFXI? If SE can figure out the difference, they can better decide what they want to do. Really, in FFXI, if you wanted to have gear for your job, you could level the craft to make it, just like in FFXIV, so why did it not happen? Why did people diversify in one game, and specialize in another? I think it may have been the difficulty of obtaining the levels and resources needed to make gear in FFXI. One needed to dedicate a reasonable amount of time to farming up materials, leveling the right craft and leveling up the right subcrafts. Given that time was clearly seen as a commodity in FFXI, it was worth more to players to specialize than it was to spend the time to diversify. I'm not positive though, perhaps it was something else...
#6 Jan 27 2011 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think all the craft inter-dependencies and difficulty of working with market wards also played a huge role in people becoming self sufficient. It was such a pain in the *** trying to find ANYTHING in the market wards early on that it was easier to simply level everything to 10 or 20 and make your own gear.
#7 Jan 27 2011 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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Hulan wrote:
The real question, I suppose, is why did that not happen in FFXI? If SE can figure out the difference, they can better decide what they want to do. Really, in FFXI, if you wanted to have gear for your job, you could level the craft to make it, just like in FFXIV, so why did it not happen?


In FFXi you could only take one craft to the maximum level per character, that is why it never happened.
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#8 Jan 27 2011 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with Hulan on this.

Difficulty in obtaining the raw materials coupled with the difficulty to level the crafts. In FFXI you could do any trade skill that you wanted but the system was extremely difficult and the mats were a pain to find. In FFXIV the mats are easy to find and the system to craft them is easy to level. People prefer to do it themselves when presented with either buying it on someones bazaar for 40k or spending 30 min gathering the mats. The systems ease of use actually makes Bazaars obsolete except for rare or HQ items when you can easily do it yourself. Why pay 300k for items when i can spend a few hours and do it myself and save my money.

Making the crafting system more difficult to level would make people choose a craft and level 1 or 2. When it takes a day or two to go 1-20 in a craft then everyone is naturally going to level them all so they can be self reliant. This floods the market with raw mats that people dont need anymore. Flooding lowers the value and in turn the cost to level and difficulty of leveling.

In the end i agree with you that the system should have been thought out more before being implemented. Can you imaging what the markets would look like if the servers were full? 3 gil per ore, 5 gil per glue, 10 gil per weapon. I think this is what SE had in mind when they did the repair system. They didnt expect people to have to look very hard for repair mats.
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#9 Jan 27 2011 at 11:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Hulan wrote:
The real question, I suppose, is why did that not happen in FFXI? If SE can figure out the difference, they can better decide what they want to do. Really, in FFXI, if you wanted to have gear for your job, you could level the craft to make it, just like in FFXIV, so why did it not happen?


In FFXi you could only take one craft to the maximum level per character, that is why it never happened.

While true, the vast majority of items could be crafted at sub levels, only the very top tier set of items required levels 60-100, most of which had optional R/EX gear that could be used to replace them.
#10 Jan 27 2011 at 11:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think that when PS3 hits those players will probably be more likely to specialize. Those of us who started when nothing was available/no search/disorganized wards had very little choice except to do things ourselves...

I mean seriously - if it takes an hour to find some straw put up for sale by a R10 botanist or 10 minutes to gather some ourselves - what do you expect people will do?

When PS3 release hits the wards will be much more functional (and we may even have an AH) meaning that people who are less interested in crafting or people who only want to level 1 craft or whatever will be able to find the stuff they can't make themselves more easily.

I think if people had been restricted to 1 discipline this game would have been even worse off than it is now.
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#11 Jan 28 2011 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I think that when PS3 hits those players will probably be more likely to specialize. Those of us who started when nothing was available/no search/disorganized wards had very little choice except to do things ourselves...

I mean seriously - if it takes an hour to find some straw put up for sale by a R10 botanist or 10 minutes to gather some ourselves - what do you expect people will do?

When PS3 release hits the wards will be much more functional (and we may even have an AH) meaning that people who are less interested in crafting or people who only want to level 1 craft or whatever will be able to find the stuff they can't make themselves more easily.

I think if people had been restricted to 1 discipline this game would have been even worse off than it is now.


I agree with this!
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#12 Jan 28 2011 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent
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all my **** sells there is no problem and allowing people to craft every job is 100% needed in this game because of repairs. This is a different game we have not seen one bad effect of this system so before (again) we call and cry for ff11 system lets see how this plays out.

Also they will never change it because then they would have to take away levels from people and that will never go over well.
#13 Jan 28 2011 at 1:49 AM Rating: Default
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imfDUB wrote:
i agree with you i started as a miner thinking to myself ill make a liveing on selling raw materals but then i realize everyone is way too self sufficient, and my ores collect dust

on the FF14 website they had a scerno of a DoW haveing all this cockatrice meat and running into a cook who cooked it for her, and boom happy fammly everyone wins but in reality the DoW takes out her fryingpan and cooks it for her self, and everyone stays self sufficient. and the DoL goes no were

All of my limonites,iron ores and iron sands sell in less than a day.

But why do that when i can mine some,buy 400k in limonites,craft iron nuggets,sell them and make 1.5kk of profit in 1 day?

People don't need raw ores,they need nuggets.

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 2:50am by TheonVenethiel

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 2:51am by TheonVenethiel
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#14 Jan 28 2011 at 1:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Really, in FFXI, if you wanted to have gear for your job, you could level the craft to make it, just like in FFXIV, so why did it not happen?


In FFXIV, you can do leves and become a crafter for free. In FFXI, you had to be a millionaire already to afford crafting ingredients.

That, and crafting in FFXIV guarantees you at least some SP/EXP as a reward.
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#15 Jan 28 2011 at 2:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I think that when PS3 hits those players will probably be more likely to specialize. Those of us who started when nothing was available/no search/disorganized wards had very little choice except to do things ourselves...

I mean seriously - if it takes an hour to find some straw put up for sale by a R10 botanist or 10 minutes to gather some ourselves - what do you expect people will do?

When PS3 release hits the wards will be much more functional (and we may even have an AH) meaning that people who are less interested in crafting or people who only want to level 1 craft or whatever will be able to find the stuff they can't make themselves more easily.

I think if people had been restricted to 1 discipline this game would have been even worse off than it is now.



Agreed.

I believe because its the beginning of the game, everyone is trying to get ahead, as seen in the poll alot of people were xi players and getting gil was difficult. Everyone who has started this game from release wants to get in while it is still easy to get the mats needed to craft to max level. I have already seen people now joining my ls finding it hard to get gil and specialising
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#16 Jan 28 2011 at 4:01 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Really, in FFXI, if you wanted to have gear for your job, you could level the craft to make it, just like in FFXIV, so why did it not happen?


In FFXIV, you can do leves and become a crafter for free. In FFXI, you had to be a millionaire already to afford crafting ingredients.

That, and crafting in FFXIV guarantees you at least some SP/EXP as a reward.

While that's correct it would take a very long time to reach cap in a DoH if you'd just do leves.
Crafting in XIV is easier compared to crafting in XI, that's true, but most of us are still in the r20-r30 range.
I think most players just want to repair their own gear so they don't have to depend on others.

I don't think it would make a difference if they seperated the disciples. The only difference would be that you'd have to switch to another char everytime you need another class. You'd still have to rank up every class you want.
But the freedom of switching between classes is one of the core aspects of the game and something only FFXIV and FFXI have to offer at the moment. They won't change that.

Btw. it's possible to level up a craft in XI without having millions of gil. It just takes longer than rushing to cap...much longer.
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#17 Jan 28 2011 at 5:04 AM Rating: Good
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Zalim the Charming wrote:
I don't understand why they allowed all of the players to be able to be all disciplines. It hurts the markets in my opinion and their "Bazaar concept" they had going. When people started players out they should have been only able to choose one discipline and stick to those jobs under that discipline so that there is that heavy reliance on crafters, gatherers, mages, as well as melee classes. I think the Market Wards would have been a ton easier to use for players that mine, craft, and farm. That would help players separate things to sell since they can only gather certain items due to their discipline.

I see most folks complaining about selling multiple types of items and others not being able to find it, as its being sold in the wrong ward. When I first started I chose gladiator. Since I needed gear, instead of looking for an armorer to make it I bought a hammer and made my own stuff. Its kind of sad in some degree.

I don't know... I wish Square-Enix built this game with a little thought of how players will avoid others to get what they need. I still love this game to death and will stick to the end. I just wish for stuff you know. =P

/rant


First i have to say that i like the system where all can be all, atm there are no pt, but later there will, and you/we (not me yet, i am focus on craft) will encounter the same problem as other mmo, lack of tank/heal there will never lack of DD, as well as SE take money/char, so all can be all is not a bad thing if you think about it, and should be greateful that they dont put their greedy in this thing and force ppl to buy more than 1 char when they want to rolle anew class w/o delete their old.

as for DoH and DoL, it work the same, there wont be a OMG overprice blablabla in a item happen in this game because of a crafter or a gather is rare, so be happy cos your usually nightmare is over

and about ward, it doesnt matter anymore although this topic is 1 day early than the new info about ward search, it wont be a pain anymore forppl who sell multi item in a wrong ward

Edited, Jan 28th 2011 6:06am by Shneibel
#18 Jan 30 2011 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
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RMT driven economy is another reason it didn't happen in XI.

RMT controlled resources on the AH and thus (even when I started at NA release) it was better to sell logs/ores than to buy them and craft with them because you were 90% of the time crafting at a loss.

Crafting at a loss is fine if you intend to use the gear (cause then it's not really a loss) but considering the skill up system in XI felt a lot more random than XIV and certainly took a lot longer (and you weren't provided free materials every 36 hours) it was just a very punishing experience.

Crafting in XIV is actually very rewarding - the biggest complaint about it I hear is that it's "boring" and people don't like being "forced" to do it. Both of which are rather silly complaints as you can (and should) skip crafting if you find it too bothersome.

Give XIV an AH and you will see a steep increase in consumables and raw materials. Whether it is RMT or innovative (and moderately wealthy) players - it will soon become very unfavorable for Crafters to mass produce items to sell for profit. But then crafters can still rely on leves and selling gathered/farmed materials they crafted to NPCs.

Crafting overall (with or without AH & RMT) will be more reliable in XIV than XI. I wonder why they don't go back in XI and revamp some of the problems with crafting in that game to make it more (immediately) rewarding for "newcomers." I wondered that for about 5-6 years actually.
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#19 Jan 30 2011 at 4:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Right now there's nothing else to do in this game than level up.
And all the people left atm think that they will gain some sort of
headstart by leveling up all classes now once the "real" game starts.
#20 Jan 30 2011 at 5:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Right now there's nothing else to do in this game than level up.
And all the people left atm think that they will gain some sort of
headstart by leveling up all classes now once the "real" game starts.



..Or we are just having fun and enjoying the game. Maybe some people feel different than you? Wouldn't that be a shock!
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#21 Jan 30 2011 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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I am in two minds about this. In a way it's not much different from FFXI, the only difference is instead of running back to a Mog House to change jobs, you change weapons.

Being able to craft everything I think is good, and yes there is the problem of people being self sufficient but so were many in FFXI. For example how many people synthed food for themselves, I know I was one and made a profit while I was at it with the remainder of the batch I didn't need.

I think the main difference when comparing the two especially when crafting as someone mentioned before, you can rank up for free. I think this needs to have a cut off point myself. The idea is similar to what I played in Aion, and if I remember correctly you got free quests up to a certain rank then you were left on your own to go farm.

It is still early days anyway, a lot has gone wrong and a lot of good fixes have come. I have always liked the idea of changing jobs on one character because otherwise you get people making endless characters trying out new jobs. I myself would like the old jobs to come back, and not mix abilities but I am willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.
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#22 Jan 30 2011 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It is still early days anyway,

...that's a nice thing to say, in the 5th month after release...
Quote:
..Or we are just having fun and enjoying the game. Maybe some people feel different than you? Wouldn't that be a shock!

No. Of course it's entirely possible that people enjoy the game even at it's current state.

Edited, Jan 30th 2011 11:35am by Rinsui
#23 Jan 30 2011 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Since I needed gear, instead of looking for an armorer to make it I bought a hammer and made my own stuff. Its kind of sad in some degree.


This is a bad thing?
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