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Are DoH true classes?Follow

#52 Jan 29 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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While a weathered gladius is a fine weapon, I have to imagine that people will eventually want things made out of steel. If a whitemage can be a class despite offering mostly support abilities, I don't really see how the DoL/H can't be classes even though they do the same thing. Armour offers more of a defense bonus than a "Protect" spell ever will, and skills like "Ferocity" are entirely useless without a good weapon to power them into.

Besides that, Class doesn't mean "guy who brains people to death." A 'class' is a role that someone fulfills within a society. ****, if we want to nit-pick, people usually have greater need for food and clothing than they do someone to go slay a dragon. If anything, the DoW have less claim to the 'class' title than someone who makes pants.

All that said, I wouldn't mind if the DoL/H had some more rudimentary fighting abilities. Obviously I don't want a miner to start excelling at combat over a gladiator, but I don't see why if I'm out in the field and get accosted by an ambitious rabbit I can't simply plunge my pick axe into it's face and continue along my journey. I don't get why I cant' cast magic I have learned as a conjurer just because I'm a weaver.

I wouldn't mind if there were some class specific quests with engaging story lines and events tailored to the abilities of DoL/H classes, but I don't think the main storyline should suffer because the crafting classes need to have something to do as well. It would be a bit silly to have to pause the final fight with Bahamut for the fisherman to feed him a fish because SE had to have something for the fisherman to do.

Edited, Jan 29th 2011 12:31pm by WarkupoZ
#53 Jan 29 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Again, thanks. 100% agreed.
#54 Jan 29 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
and most of the OMG AWESOME gear the hero use to defeast the AWESOME boss come from some kind of legendary craft isnt it ? as if we begin to talk about story


Most of those legendary crafters died years before the hero leaving their prized creations inside a chest deep within a cave or dungeon that they handcrafted with their loyal companion or psychotic creation on guard. It's not often that the best stuff is created by the hero as much as stumbled upon or further enhanced from another model created by the dead one. :3
#55 Jan 29 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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@ Bruknarr

Possible spoiler

When you're comparing Beastmen and Bahamut it just doesn't make sense (based on the storyline I have experienced). In FFXIV the three races are not at war or even conflict with the Beastmen, they just leave each other in peace. The Shcrow concortium even engages in trade with the tribes and tries to keep them from becoming violent.

Saying that parley with Beastmen in FFXIV is killing immersion is saying that getting goodies and interacting with Gobbies in Jeuno (FFXI) also kills immersion and after years not once did I hear anything like that. I wouldn't expect to parley with primals but beastmen I don't see why not!
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#56 Jan 29 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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...because the (Japanese - maybe there's a difference?) cutscene
tells me that they are about to kill each other. Right now.
But all they actually do is to pick some flowers while they wait
for you to finish your parley with some innocent bystanders.

Now I can see how that mission would be, in principle, parley-able.
With a new, modified cutscene that allows for parley-time. But that
is not the case. Instead, they crippled the natural flow of the
original scene to implant a parley break. Very unnatural -> very
immersion killing. Get it?

They pretty much drove themselves into a corner with their "everything
should be available for all classes". Because either they double the
storyline cutscenes (one version for DoW/M and one for DoL/H), or they
make one scene that is unsatisfactory for both groups.

Given the limited time and manpower they have, I fear they will settle
for the latter.

#57 Jan 29 2011 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Thanks. You saved me a lot of time typing that out.
Rate up.

While I welcome a concept such as non-violent solutions,
the way parley is implemented is a total immersion killer.

"Hey! Let's crush some elder dragons... with cookies and lemonade."

*Shiver*

EDIT:
SE tried too much at once; FFXIV is a pile of absolutely brilliant,
but equally half-assed concepts. For now, they should cut down
a lot and get the core engine running. Or it's GAME OVER.


Edited, Jan 29th 2011 12:17pm by Rinsui


Guess you have never played Fallout series, you can win without firing a shot and only talk. Even in Arcanum you can win the final fight with a crazy Demigod-like being in the Abyss through speech and have he destroyed himself. More and more RPGs nowadays offering speech as the alternative to kill, not to mention the goal of the story mission is getting the Beastmen and their Primal Ones to support Eorzea's effort against the Empire, and not killing the Beastmen. Bahamut is also one of the Primal One, which may likely be directly involved with the player character since Ifrit mentioned that he sensed the taint from your player character. Bahamut's blessing maybe? Persuading Bahamut to let you summon it, why not?
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#58 Jan 29 2011 at 7:23 PM Rating: Decent
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If I recall an interview about how DoH would fit in to endgame, it was described using this very example, a Gold element mob's armor could only be lowered by a goldsmith's special ability (if memory serves me, it was a gold dissolving ability), basically crafter's would be given certain abilities to aid in a battle, by more than just fixxing armor. as well as large scale crafting projects for a crafting endgame as well, I just wish I could remember where I saw that interview.

Their intention is definately to bring DoH into raids, via special battle abilities, I hope they do follow through on this, it would be very unique to MMOs.

Edited, Jan 29th 2011 8:26pm by Spyrit178

Edited, Jan 29th 2011 8:30pm by Spyrit178
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#59 Jan 29 2011 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
If I recall an interview about how DoH would fit in to endgame, it was described using this very example, a Gold element mob's armor could only be lowered by a goldsmith's special ability (if memory serves me, it was a gold dissolving ability), basically crafter's would be given certain abilities to aid in a battle, by more than just fixxing armor. as well as large scale crafting projects for a crafting endgame as well, I just wish I could remember where I saw that interview.

Their intention is definately to bring DoH into raids, via special battle abilities, I hope they do follow through on this, it would be very unique to MMOs.
Lineage II was the first game that I ran into that used the concept of crafter races in raids (as only dwarves could craft things). Granted, it was mostly production of on-weapon-hit boosters called Soulshots, which the crafters would make by sitting in a safe corner while the rest of the raid focuses on the boss, but still. And no, I'm not making that up. The first major Antharas raids were like that. They would bring a full party of warsmiths and artisans just to craft Soulshots for the melee to use on the boss.

From a design perspective, they need to make sure those abilities are useful and viable at the same time. Beastmaster in FFXI was designed around a similar concept but fell flat on its face early in the game's life.
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#60 Jan 29 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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They actually expect crafters to take part in raids (like I said unique). From what I read that it wouldn't be neccessary to have a goldsmith on said mob, but they would make the battle easier. Would explain the hefty health pool.

Edited, Jan 29th 2011 9:09pm by Spyrit178
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#61 Jan 29 2011 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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Of course they are classes.

In a game where everything is player crafted,they are even more important than DoW/DoM.

If this game was Wow,Rift,or some crap like that,i would agree,but here they are way too important.
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