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I'm pretty sure I kind of like FFXIVFollow

#1 Jan 31 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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So yea, I posted on here last week about how Rift looked so much better than FFXIV and that I would play it while FFXIV hopefully got better and all that. Well, I played the 5 day Beta event in Rift and didn't really enjoy it very much at all.

Sure, they have the user interface figured out and everything works fine - including an AH. But its not my type of game (I really don't need the over-the-top roaring and yelling in the dialogue - and non stop flaming balls of fire bombaring every square inch of the world with my screen shaking and flashing while I try to read what the NPC is telling me). Also, the graphics suck (primarily the character models and animations).

I hadn't played FFXIV at all this year until the Rift beta ended. On Saturday I fired up FFXIV again and enjoyed the heck out of it. I can't quite put my finger on it, but SE just brings an mmo style to the table that isn't found in any other game.

Yes FFXIV currently lacks content, lacks a streamlined UI, lacks basic social features, and lacks basic market features. One thing they don't lack, however, is that Final Fantasy feel. That feeling that everytime you log on and do something, no mater how grindy it might be, you are working towards some greater, epic goal... even if I'm unsure what exactly that goal is - it keeps me wanting to log on and eek out just a little bit more before I call it a night.

FFXIV is right there. It's knocking on the door of being FFXI2 (which most of us want). I hope they get there. I think they will. Sine this game is eventually going to be a PS3 release, SE sort of gets a one-time do-over. For now, I'm staying in their corner cheering them on.

#2 Jan 31 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
That feeling that everytime you log on and do something, no mater how grindy it might be, you are working towards some greater, epic goal... even if I'm unsure what exactly that goal is


ATM, it's called "LV 50".
#3 Jan 31 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Agreed, I think FFXIV has a solid base now that most of the little annoyances are gone. We just need more content.
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#4 Jan 31 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Agreed. Now that we have a more-or-less functioning framework, all we need is a game to fill it.
#5 Jan 31 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
I agree!
FFXIV has won me over (God knows how) and I think I will probably stick around for a very long time eventhough I whine and ***** about most of the thing about it on a daily basis.

Final Fantasy games are like family members to me... just because FFXIV is going through some difficult teenage years doesn't mean it won't be a decent human being (well game in this case) once it grows up.

Edited, Jan 31st 2011 11:54am by LeilaniWildfire
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#6 Jan 31 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I wonder whether they will be able to "patch" their way to victory,
or whether they will actually have to take the whole thing offline
at some point to re-build fundamental core mechanics?

Btw, what did WoW do when that last big (allegedly) game-changing
expansion came out? Did they just patch the new mechanics in, or did
they take the whole game down for an extended period of time?
#7 Jan 31 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I wonder whether they will be able to "patch" their way to victory,
or whether they will actually have to take the whole thing offline
at some point to re-build fundamental core mechanics?


Yes. For example the day after tomorrow they are going to take the whole thing offline for 2 and half hours.
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#8 Jan 31 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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The core mechanics don't need to be changed, so yes, patches for content and some minor fixes are all that's really needed IMO.
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#9 Jan 31 2011 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mithsavvy wrote:
One thing they don't lack, however, is that Final Fantasy feel. That feeling that everytime you log on and do something, no mater how grindy it might be, you are working towards some greater, epic goal... even if I'm unsure what exactly that goal is - it keeps me wanting to log on and eek out just a little bit more before I call it a night.
I'll definitely disagree that the game encourages progress to a greater epic goal, but I'll grant that the gameplay itself is non-traditional among popular MMOs. FFXI was the same way, it offered a fairly different experience rather than a different company putting their own story/graphics into the same game, and I played it for years because I liked that direction.

Basically like you said, FFXIV is lacking content and polish on essentially all game features. The most agreeably polished aspect of FFXIV would likely be the character models, but that comes with a huge caveat of poor/unoptimized performance, which in its entirety doesn't aptly fit my definition of "polish" in a video game sense. If they can continue to improve the game mechanics and interface into a smoother experience and flesh out the in-game content (not just adding more leves), then FFXIV will be a very strong game.

Not sure how long that'll take, and what aspects the dev team will end up never improving on.
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#10 Jan 31 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with OP too! I just can't bring myself to play RIFT. I am in the beta too, but I had no desire to play. I find myself patiently waiting for FFXIV as I level my character up!!
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#11 Jan 31 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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I am on the same boat... Maybe I am too heavily influenced by the manga/anime art style... but RIFT's character design/combat animation just kinda turns me off... Feels too generic for my taste...



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#12 Jan 31 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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lurex the Intelligent wrote:
I agree with OP too! I just can't bring myself to play RIFT. I am in the beta too, but I had no desire to play. I find myself patiently waiting for FFXIV as I level my character up!!


I'm pretty much opposite of this. I've been playing **the game you are not supposed to talk about**, loving it for all the content and polish that it is. I can't bring myself to open up FF due to lack of content...no matter how well the character models look or how of a FF fan that I am and will always be. I have pretty much decided I'm going to give FF about a year or so before jumping back in. I don't want to do the hurry up and wait for the bits and pieces of content trickle in, month to month. I want the Game that it was supposed to be and to experience it knowing it is a full meal...not a bunch of snacks.
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#13 Jan 31 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes. The crux is just, that SE will decide on how much effort they put into FFXIV depending
on how many players they perceive this will bring back after the game's cataclysm (snicker)
last December. It's no secret that they lost more than 50% of their login value (that is,
(player number)*(individual login time/week)) since launch. As both an investor and producer,
I would be very cautious about investing even more money into a product that has already
showed every sign of, and may ultimately prove to be nothing but a failure.

That said, it's entirely possible that SE is taking the success of this game "personal".
It's not something minor for a FF title to be unanimously ripped to pieces by critics and
players alike from day 1, both west and east of the pacific. Their longest-standing brand
name is at stake; so possibly, they will, at the very least, put up a good fight.

About that RIFT/Telara game: they copied quite a bit from FFXIV (quite late in the development
cycle, btw!). But they didn't just copy, but (as far as I can tell) expand on their "stolen"
template. Their skill tree root/branch system seems to be severely more fleshed-out and refined
than the "armoury" system SE is still so proud of. Granted, the graphics can't compare, and
as far as I can tell, there is nothing like group combos (regimens). But at least they seem
to deliver a "complete" game right from start. Including the basics (trade mechanics like
mailboxes, AHs, mounts, drag & drop equipment options) as well as some extras (distinct races
with special quirks, more monster types than marmots 1-50, PvP, world-changing public events
etc.).

Likewise Guildwars 2 seems to offer things the FFXIV trailer advertised, but never delivered.
Remember that archer guy who shoots fire-imbued arrows at that Morbol? Did you ever try that
in FFXIV? No? Well, I'll tell you something: it isn't possible! Yet, it is entirely possible in
Guild Wars 2: Cast a Flame wall, shoot arrows through it, BAM: flaming arrows. (Sadly, GW2
seems to overdo it 300%: in the last demo, it was hard to make out what's happening since the
screen was constantly exploding in all colors of the rainbow).

SE will have to be very fast: their best ideas are already being adapted and expanded on in
other games.


Edited, Jan 31st 2011 3:43pm by Rinsui
#14 Jan 31 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Default
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That doesn't really mean FFXIV is a great game, that just means you don't like Rift. This is exactly why FFXIV can not (and should not) be compared to other MMOs on the market. Just because 14 has better core potential doesn't mean it's a good or enjoyable game right now.

Rift (and the majority of other MMOs on the market) and trying to compete with WoW. FFXIV is trying to compete, and should be able to stand on it's own merits, with the Final Fantasy franchise. It may not seem fair to judge two games in the same genre by different standards, but it's accurate because they're competing for two different types of customers. WoW, and games like it, pander to the group known as lowest common denominator. They make games that even the simplest, least intelligent gamer can enjoy (and understand). Naturally they will have a larger customer base. FFXIV, and other games like it, are games that the majority of people who enjoy simple and shallow MMOs with very little NPC character development aren't really going to understand or enjoy. They have a more refined artistic style with more subtle character personalities and deal with a wider, more complex range of emotional and inter-personal issues.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but most people have never said that FFXIV didn't have the potential to be a great game in the first place. We all know it does, which is why it's so frustrating that it's not living up to it's own potential at the moment.



Edited, Jan 31st 2011 3:44pm by SickleSageKiroh
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#15 Jan 31 2011 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Well said. There is (was?) HUGE potential in this game. And I could
tear my hair out every single day when I see what some braindead,
***-headed gasoline-drinker at SE...

...well no, it's even more frustrating. I can't even imagine how
they managed to f*ck up THAT hard. It's simply a mystery. The whole
"released too early" stuff doesn't convince me anymore.
#16 Jan 31 2011 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Rinsui wrote:
Well said. There is (was?) HUGE potential in this game. And I could
tear my hair out every single day when I see what some braindead,
***-headed gasoline-drinker at SE...

...well no, it's even more frustrating. I can't even imagine how
they managed to f*ck up THAT hard. It's simply a mystery. The whole
"released too early" stuff doesn't convince me anymore.
The Chinese outsourcing rumor (although a tad on the conspiracy side) seemed more plausible to me, releasing too early never did.

And that may very well be totally false, but it still seems more a more likely explanation.
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#17 Jan 31 2011 at 3:40 PM Rating: Default
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Am I the only one reminded of a stupid 90s song by the OP?

And I say "What about FF fourteen?"
She says "I think I remember the game"
"Yeah, as I recall, I think, we both kind of liked it."
And I say "Well that's one thing we were both wrong about."
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#18 Jan 31 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:
That doesn't really mean FFXIV is a great game, that just means you don't like Rift. This is exactly why FFXIV can not (and should not) be compared to other MMOs on the market. Just because 14 has better core potential doesn't mean it's a good or enjoyable game right now.

Rift (and the majority of other MMOs on the market) and trying to compete with WoW. FFXIV is trying to compete, and should be able to stand on it's own merits, with the Final Fantasy franchise. It may not seem fair to judge two games in the same genre by different standards, but it's accurate because they're competing for two different types of customers. WoW, and games like it, pander to the group known as lowest common denominator. They make games that even the simplest, least intelligent gamer can enjoy (and understand). Naturally they will have a larger customer base. FFXIV, and other games like it, are games that the majority of people who enjoy simple and shallow MMOs with very little NPC character development aren't really going to understand or enjoy. They have a more refined artistic style with more subtle character personalities and deal with a wider, more complex range of emotional and inter-personal issues.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but most people have never said that FFXIV didn't have the potential to be a great game in the first place. We all know it does, which is why it's so frustrating that it's not living up to it's own potential at the moment.



Edited, Jan 31st 2011 3:44pm by SickleSageKiroh


Ok...so I like Rift(but didn't like WoW)....so I'm an idiot? I am the lowest common denominator? Am I also partly retarded? Even though I majored in Accounting with a Business degree...does all that get thrown out because I am entertained by a game? Its a wonder how I ever made it though 4 years of playing FFXI being a complete and utter moron.

Gosh...I may need to re-evaluate my life. Thanks for letting me know my shortcomings.
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#19 Jan 31 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Well said. There is (was?) HUGE potential in this game. And I could
tear my hair out every single day when I see what some braindead,
***-headed gasoline-drinker at SE...

...well no, it's even more frustrating. I can't even imagine how
they managed to f*ck up THAT hard. It's simply a mystery. The whole
"released too early" stuff doesn't convince me anymore.
The Chinese outsourcing rumor (although a tad on the conspiracy side) seemed more plausible to me, releasing too early never did.

And that may very well be totally false, but it still seems more a more likely explanation.


I think my conspiracy theory makes more sense. When Rapture started development, it was the same time that FFXI started taking off in terms of content and quality.

My theory has been that they took the XI team, put them on Rapture, and replaced them on XI with new people. It would explain why XI suddenly took off as well as why XIV seems to have learned absolutely nothing from XI's successes and failures in the time that XIV was in development, as well as why XIV felt like a step back from XI.
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#20 Jan 31 2011 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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My pet conspiracy theory is that they spent the first four and a half years of development wrestling with the Crystal Tools engine and making all the pretty HD graphics and such, then one day, one of the company bigwigs looked at the work in progress and was all like "Hey, it's looking great and all, but it's been four and a half years already, is this game ever going to be ready for release?" leading Tanaka to silently go "Game? Oh ************ I knew I forgot something!" Cue dev team panicking and scrambling to throw together a game before the people with their fingers on their purse strings realized that they had just spent however many man-hours on absolutely nothing but the engine and graphics.
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#21 Jan 31 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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I have been one of the people that have talked bad about FFXIV for the past 5-6 months. I have watched several people call me a troll and such and a month or two later watch them come over to the dark side and start complaining about the game too. Some of them just quit posting instead of going all negative. Anyways I quit the game in late oct.- early nov. and really didnt feel like I would be coming back. Funny thing is I logged in like 10 days ago and I am kinda enjoying myself. So while I have watch several people make the transformation from fanboi to troll I havent seen many people go from troll to fanboi. I might be the first we will see in a few weeks. This might be the start of my fanboyism or this might just be temporary. Time will tell.
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#22 Jan 31 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Simool wrote:

....so I'm an idiot?


If you think that my post was meant to insult you, then yes.

I was simply stating (if you even care and aren't just looking for a fight with anyone you perceive as attacking or insulting your intelligence) that a game with lower minimum requirements will have a larger player base while a game with higher minimum requirements will have a smaller player base. That each type of game is looking to attract a different target audience and that what people enjoy about each type of game is different.







Edited, Jan 31st 2011 6:25pm by SickleSageKiroh
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#23 Jan 31 2011 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:
Simool wrote:

....so I'm an idiot?


If you think that my post was meant to insult you, then yes.

I was simply stating (if you even care and aren't just looking for a fight with anyone you perceive as attacking or insulting your intelligence) that a game with lower minimum requirements will have a larger player base while a game with higher minimum requirements will have a smaller player base. That each type of game is looking to attract a different target audience and that what people enjoy about each type of game is different.


Uh, what? You didn't mention system requirements at all. You said:

SickleSageKiroh wrote:

It may not seem fair to judge two games in the same genre by different standards, but it's accurate because they're competing for two different types of customers. WoW, and games like it, pander to the group known as lowest common denominator. They make games that even the simplest, least intelligent gamer can enjoy (and understand). Naturally they will have a larger customer base. FFXIV, and other games like it, are games that the majority of people who enjoy simple and shallow MMOs with very little NPC character development aren't really going to understand or enjoy. They have a more refined artistic style with more subtle character personalities and deal with a wider, more complex range of emotional and inter-personal issues.


Now, to me, it sounds like you said "more people play WoW because more people are stupid."

Unless you think "least intelligent" means "lacking in sufficient RAM."






#24 Jan 31 2011 at 5:58 PM Rating: Default
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I'm pretty sure you kind of don't.
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#25 Jan 31 2011 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:

Remember that archer guy who shoots fire-imbued arrows at that Morbol? Did you ever try that
in FFXIV? No? Well, I'll tell you something: it isn't possible!


Yeah it is. Learn Red Lotus and then use it with Archer.
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#26 Jan 31 2011 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Simool wrote:
lurex the Intelligent wrote:
I agree with OP too! I just can't bring myself to play RIFT. I am in the beta too, but I had no desire to play. I find myself patiently waiting for FFXIV as I level my character up!!


I'm pretty much opposite of this. I've been playing **the game you are not supposed to talk about**, loving it for all the content and polish that it is. I can't bring myself to open up FF due to lack of content...no matter how well the character models look or how of a FF fan that I am and will always be. I have pretty much decided I'm going to give FF about a year or so before jumping back in. I don't want to do the hurry up and wait for the bits and pieces of content trickle in, month to month. I want the Game that it was supposed to be and to experience it knowing it is a full meal...not a bunch of snacks.

Sadly this is me too. I keep hoping i will be able to balance them both once Rift is released but at the moment it is just a lot more fun than xiv. I hope it changes though, because i really want the game to succeed and i have high hopes it will, but there is just so many problems that i think it will take 6+ months to get it to an acceptable standard for a subscription mmo.
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#27 Feb 01 2011 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Rinsui wrote:

Remember that archer guy who shoots fire-imbued arrows at that Morbol? Did you ever try that
in FFXIV? No? Well, I'll tell you something: it isn't possible!


Yeah it is. Learn Red Lotus and then use it with Archer.


Naw. Don't play stupid. I'm talking about cooperative, environment-dependent
combos that actually require skill and innovation to pull off, and have some
sort of convincing visible effect. In FFXIV, you can't even see the arrow ;P

Btw, what I'm looking forward to most is a better definition of the difference
between classes. Right now it looks like everybody can have high DoT, everybody
can heal and everybody can buff. The same stuff accross the board, just in slightly
different colors. SE *can* do better than that. Just look at the warping Time-Mage
concept from the original FF Tactics, or the Geomancer from the same title. Both
concepts have been "stolen" and copied in RIFT (the Riftstalker class) and GW2
(the Elementalist) with great success, respectively.

SE just has to wake up and stop pulling dated generic stuff out of their asses.
'cept for the AH. That's not generic, but "essential" ;)

Edited, Feb 1st 2011 5:01am by Rinsui
#28 Feb 01 2011 at 4:34 AM Rating: Excellent
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
I have been one of the people that have talked bad about FFXIV for the past 5-6 months. I have watched several people call me a troll and such and a month or two later watch them come over to the dark side and start complaining about the game too. Some of them just quit posting instead of going all negative. Anyways I quit the game in late oct.- early nov. and really didnt feel like I would be coming back. Funny thing is I logged in like 10 days ago and I am kinda enjoying myself. So while I have watch several people make the transformation from fanboi to troll I havent seen many people go from troll to fanboi. I might be the first we will see in a few weeks. This might be the start of my fanboyism or this might just be temporary. Time will tell.


I wasn't quite a troll but I have been bashing the game a lot and didn't play for month and a half. Now in January I have been playing and really liking it, so I understand where you are coming from.
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#29 Feb 01 2011 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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LeilaniWildfire, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
I have been one of the people that have talked bad about FFXIV for the past 5-6 months. I have watched several people call me a troll and such and a month or two later watch them come over to the dark side and start complaining about the game too. Some of them just quit posting instead of going all negative. Anyways I quit the game in late oct.- early nov. and really didnt feel like I would be coming back. Funny thing is I logged in like 10 days ago and I am kinda enjoying myself. So while I have watch several people make the transformation from fanboi to troll I havent seen many people go from troll to fanboi. I might be the first we will see in a few weeks. This might be the start of my fanboyism or this might just be temporary. Time will tell.


I wasn't quite a troll but I have been bashing the game a lot and didn't play for month and a half. Now in January I have been playing and really liking it, so I understand where you are coming from.


Well I never thought of myself as a troll but im sure some of the extreme fanbois(most of which have burned out and dont even play anymore) thought I was a troll.
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#30 Feb 01 2011 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Same here. And I do little to disspell that image ^.^/ \^.^
#31 Feb 01 2011 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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I will admit though that the server population is down quite a bit from when I was playing last (in December).

Strategically, I think it would do SE some good to take a short break from the functionality issues and deliver some content. The game is playalbe now. They need to balance delivery of content and functional patches in order to maintain their playerbase until PS3 release.

#32 Feb 01 2011 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:
Simool wrote:

....so I'm an idiot?

If you think that my post was meant to insult you, then yes.


I have to agree with sickle here.

What was said, was that because WoW and other games like it required less skill to understand, they would naturally be inhabited by a great majority of people in comparison with other games which demand from their playerbase more skill, understanding and time commitment.

This doesn't mean that the whole population of WoW and such are idiot, just that by the laws of probability there will be a greater ammount of idiots in games like it that there would be lets say in FFXI.

If you, with all your degrees, PHDs and such don't see how this comes to be then

Quote:
If you think that my post was meant to insult you, then yes.
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#33 Feb 04 2011 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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@OP This exact thing happened to me when I tried the Rift beta. I went in with hopes of it being this MMORPG messiah that everyone's making it out to be and was sorely disappointed to find it to be another cookie-cutter MMO with nothing original or special about it. As soon as I fired up FFXIV for the first time since the December version update, I immediately found challenging tasks to occupy my time yet. Sure, it lacks content, but it's not nearly as unplayable as I once thought it to be.
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